[IC] GMK Neon Gelatin Evangelism - On Hold

[a_ak57]

Unless thesiscamper has concrete plans to run a non-massdrop GMK TM soon, I don't think there's really a case here.  Not to mention the similarity is from using stock GMK colors and the bog standard "X on Y alphas with Y on X mods" format.  If the novelties took the progression of "hey we should have one that is just crazed laughter since someone from NGE would do that" then I could see the claims of copycatting, but otherwise this is basically like claiming nobody is allowed to do white on black alphas/blue mods with weeb legends because maybe someday skullydazed might do GMK Modern Selectric.

[donutcat]

listen just give me some unit 01 key set that isn't in a god awful profile please otherwise my board will forever just be on display, SA physically hurts for me to use

Kinda like this? (wip designs)

[beamingrobot]

Wow that totally doesn't look like a familiar novelty key from another set


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Zambumon]

Unless thesiscamper has concrete plans to run a non-massdrop GMK TM soon, I don't think there's really a case here.

BRB, making GMK Godspeed.

[beamingrobot]

Too late zambumon I'm already making DCS Serika


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[Oblotzky]

Unless thesiscamper has concrete plans to run a non-massdrop GMK TM soon, I don't think there's really a case here.

BRB, making GMK Godspeed.

BRB, making SA Nautilus

[nickheller]

Whatever plans he may have with troubled minds is irrelevant. He doesn't own the colorway or theme, it was produced more than once before his set ran. This argument is ridiculous. I will agree that the novelty legend posted above is quite similar to one in his set though.

[donutcat]

Wow that totally doesn't look like a familiar novelty key from another set


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Aside from a design of unit 01's face, this is the design that is straight from the anime and about the easiest thing to recognize as being associated with unit 01.

 We even made the effort to make sure it wasn't the same as anything that currently exists, but there's only so much you can make it different from another design that has the same source material. If you know of other designs that would be as instantly associable with EVA, specifically unit 01, as that design is, maybe let us know so we'll have more to work with.

[Oblotzky]

Wow that totally doesn't look like a familiar novelty key from another set


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Aside from a design of unit 01's face, this is the design that is straight from the anime and about the easiest thing to recognize as being associated with unit 01.

Show Image

 We even made the effort to make sure it wasn't the same as anything that currently exists, but there's only so much you can make it different from another design that has the same source material. If you know of other designs that would be as instantly associable with EVA, specifically unit 01, as that design is, maybe let us know so we'll have more to work with.

Congratiolations, you moved from community drama to copyright infringement.

[nickheller]

Wow that totally doesn't look like a familiar novelty key from another set


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Aside from a design of unit 01's face, this is the design that is straight from the anime and about the easiest thing to recognize as being associated with unit 01.

Show Image

 We even made the effort to make sure it wasn't the same as anything that currently exists, but there's only so much you can make it different from another design that has the same source material. If you know of other designs that would be as instantly associable with EVA, specifically unit 01, as that design is, maybe let us know so we'll have more to work with.

Congratiolations, you moved from community drama to copyright infringement.

Then so has your friend thesiscamper  :thumb:

[ghostjuggernaut]

If you don’t support the IC don’t thread crap in it. It’s been beaten to death that nobody owns a colorway. There is no need to rehash it right now. If thesis is going to run TM in the future, support his project and not this one. This set, although similar, is different and with a different manufacturer. Please be respectful to the OP and keep discussion constructive.

[thesiscamper]

I get what donut is doing, since he hasn't really sold anything original on his store and this is to be expected. I expect he will run other colorways other people have done before.

I understand the designers attacking him, because donut is a VENDOR who copies colorways. It's not like I didn't want to run GMK Troubled Minds, it's because vendors will say they're interested and then put you on a never-ending queue. donut as a vendor doesn't have that problem, clearly he just chooses whatever colorway he feels like whenever he feels like it as shown from his current ICs and past buys.

I understand the buyers, because they don't care about anything but being able to buy colored plastics that they want and not need.

Really, I try to keep to myself doing my small projects. Just go do whatever you want.

[T0mb3ry]

If you don’t support the IC don’t thread crap in it. It’s been beaten to death that nobody owns a colorway. There is no need to rehash it right now. If thesis is going to run TM in the future, support his project and not this one. This set, although similar, is different and with a different manufacturer. Please be respectful to the OP and keep discussion constructive.

By the way doesn't this IC belong into Vendor forum like it was done before with other IC threads?

[ghostjuggernaut]

If you don’t support the IC don’t thread crap in it. It’s been beaten to death that nobody owns a colorway. There is no need to rehash it right now. If thesis is going to run TM in the future, support his project and not this one. This set, although similar, is different and with a different manufacturer. Please be respectful to the OP and keep discussion constructive.

By the way doesn't this IC belong into Vendor forum like it was done before with other IC threads?

Does it? I didn’t see that it was running through MD.

[Zambumon]

If you don’t support the IC don’t thread crap in it. It’s been beaten to death that nobody owns a colorway. There is no need to rehash it right now. If thesis is going to run TM in the future, support his project and not this one. This set, although similar, is different and with a different manufacturer. Please be respectful to the OP and keep discussion constructive.

By the way doesn't this IC belong into Vendor forum like it was done before with other IC threads?

Does it? I didn’t see that it was running through MD.

Yeah, it did twice https://www.massdrop.com/buy/troubled-minds-sa-keycap-set

[AndyTC]

If you don’t support the IC don’t thread crap in it. It’s been beaten to death that nobody owns a colorway. There is no need to rehash it right now. If thesis is going to run TM in the future, support his project and not this one. This set, although similar, is different and with a different manufacturer. Please be respectful to the OP and keep discussion constructive.

By the way doesn't this IC belong into Vendor forum like it was done before with other IC threads?

Does it? I didn’t see that it was running through MD.

Yeah, it did twice https://www.massdrop.com/buy/troubled-minds-sa-keycap-set

If you don’t support the IC don’t thread crap in it. It’s been beaten to death that nobody owns a colorway. There is no need to rehash it right now. If thesis is going to run TM in the future, support his project and not this one. This set, although similar, is different and with a different manufacturer. Please be respectful to the OP and keep discussion constructive.

By the way doesn't this IC belong into Vendor forum like it was done before with other IC threads?

Does it? I didn’t see that it was running through MD.

Yeah, it did twice https://www.massdrop.com/buy/troubled-minds-sa-keycap-set

Also ran through GH thrice https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56579.0

[a_ak57]

Wow that totally doesn't look like a familiar novelty key from another set


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Aside from a design of unit 01's face, this is the design that is straight from the anime and about the easiest thing to recognize as being associated with unit 01.

Show Image

 We even made the effort to make sure it wasn't the same as anything that currently exists, but there's only so much you can make it different from another design that has the same source material. If you know of other designs that would be as instantly associable with EVA, specifically unit 01, as that design is, maybe let us know so we'll have more to work with.

Congratiolations, you moved from community drama to copyright infringement.

Sorry man, but that is just an incredibly dumb and hypocritical post given how the name of the game in keycap designing is infringing copyright and getting away with it because the projects are usually so small as to not be worth chasing by the IP owners.  It's pretty clear from that that this isn't about anything other than automatically defending the clique of popular designers.

For the record, I actually am on the side of not copycatting sets, but that's solely from a perspective of politeness since it's just a creativity thing.  If this was about a vendor mass-producing a replica of someone's artisan, that'd be another matter since you're actually stealing their business.

[zekkin]

If you don’t support the IC don’t thread crap in it. It’s been beaten to death that nobody owns a colorway. There is no need to rehash it right now. If thesis is going to run TM in the future, support his project and not this one. This set, although similar, is different and with a different manufacturer. Please be respectful to the OP and keep discussion constructive.

By the way doesn't this IC belong into Vendor forum like it was done before with other IC threads?

Does it? I didn’t see that it was running through MD.

Yeah, it did twice https://www.massdrop.com/buy/troubled-minds-sa-keycap-set

that there is a different set my dude

[InvidiousIgnoramus]

Not only am I losing a lot of respect for many prominent community members, but this thread is quite literally making me dumber. Seriously, this is some petty BS. I'm really starting to hate that I even got involved in this community at all if this is the kinda **** they're gonna squabble over. I thought this hobby was generally participated in by adults, not toddlers.

[Oblotzky]

If you don’t support the IC don’t thread crap in it. It’s been beaten to death that nobody owns a colorway. There is no need to rehash it right now. If thesis is going to run TM in the future, support his project and not this one. This set, although similar, is different and with a different manufacturer. Please be respectful to the OP and keep discussion constructive.

By the way doesn't this IC belong into Vendor forum like it was done before with other IC threads?

Does it? I didn’t see that it was running through MD.

Who said anything about moving it into the MD subforum? Donut Cat seems to be a very active vendor, I feel he has earned his own subforum where all his IC's and GB's could be moved to. Or are you saying this new rule applies to Massdrop related projects alone?

It's pretty clear from that that this isn't about anything other than automatically defending the clique of popular designers.

Oh no, how terrible would it be if frequent designers felt like their creations were protected by the community, making all their efforts worth their while and not have to worry it'll be copied left and right afterwards. Think of the repercussions this could have!



Regarding the ever-emerging 'who owns the rights to a colorway' debate: My opinion is that by no law is any colorway protected, and by law anyone would be able to produce any color combination set ever. However, as a community we should respect our designers and encourage them to keep being creative. If it was agreed upon that any colorway could just be run again by anyone at any time, why would designers want to keep creating original content? What would be the point? It'll just be copied anyways. So the whole color way thing needs to be a gentlemen's agreement, protected by those that participate in the community.

[donutcat]

I get what donut is doing, since he hasn't really sold anything original on his store and this is to be expected. I expect he will run other colorways other people have done before.

Lets see:
 - GMK Coniferous - pretty original imo, but someone will probably try to tell me they came up with the idea in an SA set 3 years previous and that I shouldn't have run it
 - GMK Royal Alpha - original design from MOZ, I vendored R2 with his permission
 - GMK BoB - original design from cocobrais, I was just a proxy
 - GMK Forge - original design from Ryu, I was the main vendor for the set
 - GMK 60's Happy Life - another design from cocobrais that I was a proxy for
That's all the keysets I've ran, unless you wanna try saying my cables aren't original or something, but that's a little weird to define.

I understand the designers attacking him, because donut is a VENDOR who copies colorways. It's not like I didn't want to run GMK Troubled Minds, it's because vendors will say they're interested and then put you on a never-ending queue. donut as a vendor doesn't have that problem, clearly he just chooses whatever colorway he feels like whenever he feels like it as shown from his current ICs and past buys.

If the set isn't using the specific colors of another set, is it really a copy? Unless you want to say that once a set has been made that combines any type of green and purple, no other person ever is allowed to use those colors again. Trying to keep people from making something because they're using "the same colors" is pretty **** and doesn't help the community any, unless you for some reason think monopolies on vague color combinations is a healthy thing.

I understand the buyers, because they don't care about anything but being able to buy colored plastics that they want and not need.

Really, I try to keep to myself doing my small projects. Just go do whatever you want.

In other news, I'm now opening a GB for glasses for some of the people in this thread that actually believe that this set is a copy of Troubled Minds. Granted, someone will probably complain that the color of glasses I choose is a ripoff of another popular glasses GB that was ran years ago for a different shape of glasses.

Who said anything about moving it into the MD subforum? Donut Cat seems to be a very active vendor, I feel he has earned his own subforum where all his IC's and GB's could be moved to. Or are you saying this new rule applies to Massdrop related projects alone?

According to the vendor/artisan guidelines, I don't meet the criteria for vendor status.

[amnesia0287]

Wow that totally doesn't look like a familiar novelty key from another set


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Aside from a design of unit 01's face, this is the design that is straight from the anime and about the easiest thing to recognize as being associated with unit 01.

Show Image

 We even made the effort to make sure it wasn't the same as anything that currently exists, but there's only so much you can make it different from another design that has the same source material. If you know of other designs that would be as instantly associable with EVA, specifically unit 01, as that design is, maybe let us know so we'll have more to work with.

Congratiolations, you moved from community drama to copyright infringement.

You mean like every eva set:

[avid]

The whole vendor sub-forum thing is stupid for IC. When people visit GH they go into GB's and IC. Hiding IC threads in sub-forums no one visits serve no purpose.

[Anaconda]

Still want this set. I like the 01 novelties. Maybe add some angel novelties? and ( even tho used in TM) the pulse knife would look really nice on the backspace.

[amnesia0287]

The whole vendor sub-forum thing is stupid for IC. When people visit GH they go into GB's and IC. Hiding IC threads in sub-forums no one visits serve no purpose.

On that point I am in 100% agreement tbh. I get what their goal is, and the MD threads really are more Interest Gathering than true IC since they are normally already big thought out kits. But to me one of the big advantages of GH over Reddit / MD was being able to find ALL the different stuff coming soon in 1 place. Maybe like a coming soon subforum for stuff between IC and GB?

I dunno what the answer is, but I also don't like having to hunt down all the different sets, and unlike many people I don't mind MD run keycap sets.

Still want this set. I like the 01 novelties. Maybe add some angel novelties? and ( even tho used in TM) the pulse knife would look really nice on the backspace.

I was considering like Leliel or Ramiel or maybe Sahaquiel. Good icons are really hard, and I'm certainly not a graphics designer . I kinda wanna avoid getting too niche tho. Like if the reference is obscure, I want the design to be something that someone who doesn't know the reference still likes, and that is hard.

[zekkin]

can we get a "i'm so ****ed up" novelty?

[sth]

can we get a "i'm so ****ed up" novelty?

just a black cap with a little white blob on it

[amnesia0287]

can we get a "i'm so ****ed up" novelty?

just a black cap with a little white blob on it

Or a “Fap” key

[Xerpocalypse]

I love the general focus of this set, and the fact that it has hiragana legends.

I'm not an expert by any means, but my $0.02:
That the fact it's hiragana+latin legends only, in a different profile, and is focused solely on EVA 001, altogether make this set quite different and more focused than Troubled Minds.

I'm in whenever this moves to GB.

[a_ak57]

Regarding the ever-emerging 'who owns the rights to a colorway' debate: My opinion is that by no law is any colorway protected, and by law anyone would be able to produce any color combination set ever. However, as a community we should respect our designers and encourage them to keep being creative. If it was agreed upon that any colorway could just be run again by anyone at any time, why would designers want to keep creating original content? What would be the point? It'll just be copied anyways. So the whole color way thing needs to be a gentlemen's agreement, protected by those that participate in the community.

I mean, to me the point would be getting keycaps.  I think that's the problem here, I assume you guys view yourselves as artists and take pride in the designs, but others just care about getting some caps.  If someone took a colorway I designed and ran a GB I wouldn't care, in fact I'd be happy that I could proceed to do nothing myself and end up with some keys I like the look of.  Though I will admit, maybe I would feel differently if any of my ideas were good enough to actually get produced.  Novelty designs however I would agree on since designing them takes more work, but I don't see that as relevant to this thread's conversation since it's about colorway strictly.

I will additionally say however that ownership idea is not even enforced equally anyway, only really seems to apply to colorways considering nobody gets angry at the people making siblings to the planck, ergodox (or whatever the first of that type was from a community member), etc, which I would consider akin to a gaijin version of GMK TM.


In any case, I think we can all at least band behind the idea that ICs in subforums should not be a thing.

[Acereconkeys]

I think an important distinction needs to be made in the community going forward between the different aspects of a keycap set. Troubled minds had significant design effort go into the theme combining the colorway with really good novelties and design. That is what made it earn the reputation it has.

This set does not infringe on that work because the only similarity between it and TM is the combination of Purple/green/orange. Purple/green/orange is not what made TM TM. For another example, what makes nautilus special is not using blue/yellow but the deep ocean theme, the fish, way that light blue on dark blue makes you imagine the different depths of the ocean, etc.

I see there being 2 options moving forward.

1. The set goes back to its original idea which is just green on purple with weeb sublegends with no novelties and nothing extra. It doesn't infringe on TM because it's just purple/green.
2. It branches out of TM territory by cementing itself into the theme of neon genesis evangelion (the show that the name comes from) through added novelties


At least that's my opinion on it.

[Anaconda]

I think an important distinction needs to be made in the community going forward between the different aspects of a keycap set. Troubled minds had significant design effort go into the theme combining the colorway with really good novelties and design. That is what made it earn the reputation it has.

This set does not infringe on that work because the only similarity between it and TM is the combination of Purple/green/orange. Purple/green/orange is not what made TM TM. For another example, what makes nautilus special is not using blue/yellow but the deep ocean theme, the fish, way that light blue on dark blue makes you imagine the different depths of the ocean, etc.

I see there being 2 options moving forward.

1. The set goes back to its original idea which is just green on purple with weeb sublegends with no novelties and nothing extra. It doesn't infringe on TM because it's just purple/green.
2. It branches out of TM territory by cementing itself into the theme of neon genesis evangelion (the show that the name comes from) through added novelties


At least that's my opinion on it.

Why does thesis have the rights for Evangelion themed sets? There was at least one set ran before Troubled minds that was Eva themed (posted previously on this thread).

[TelFiRE]

I'm sorry if I got you in trouble for recommending the AE mods, but I feel strongly it makes the set look better. That's all I really care about. I love TM, and when I first saw this set I was a bit bummed too, because the first thing in my mind was "this probably means TM won't run for a while". But then I realized, we're talking about TM. Of course it will still run. The weeb legends are probably a niche anyway. And, it's not going to run for a while anyway even if everything goes smoothly. So I don't think there's any harm in both existing personally.

The colors aren't exactly the same. And the legends obviously aren't the same. So yes, it's similar, but neither purple and green nor the idea of mods as accent keys are original to TM. Are we going to say that if you are a HUGE fan of these colors, but you don't like the shades chosen for the first person who created a set with the colors, or the set is just a few bits off for you in some other ways, you can never even try to have your dream set made?

Anyway I'm not trying to add to the drama, really. I hope everyone can get along somehow I love both sets, and also a huge fan of other sets by the designers involved here.

Edit: and hopefully people on both sides can refrain from attacking peoples' integrity over this, which is incredibly low-brow and unnecessary.

[ArchDill]

Regardless of what everyone thinks, the set ultimately can be ran. Out of integrity, running a set that is pretty much GMK Troubled Minds is probably not the best thing to do since Thesiscamper has teased it. The original design with the sub legends and no mods could still do well.

[donutcat]

Regardless of what everyone thinks, the set ultimately can be ran. Out of integrity, running a set that is pretty much GMK Troubled Minds is probably not the best thing to do since Thesiscamper has teased it. The original design with the sub legends and no mods could still do well.

Good thing since we were still planning on running the set regardless of the current drama.

[Puddsy]

ignore this post

[nickheller]

ignore this post

ok

[Puddsy]

ignore this post

ok

i was gonna talk some **** but then i thought better of it

[Sissy]

The thing with Troubled Minds is that the purple on it is very dark where Unit 01 is actually quite bright in comparison as is the green, I own several 01 figures and troubled minds comes not even close to the colors of any of them.
This set is clearly more in line with 01 and the original idea of the set.

at the end of the day Evangelion is a confusing mess of an anime, the last movie will never come out and neither Rei or Asuka are best girls.

[amnesia0287]

ignore this post

ok

i was gonna talk some **** but then i thought better of it

You mean you DID talk some **** and realized you sounded like a jerk?

One side of this debate is being petty and insulting people and just making general personal attacks.

Let's just remember we are talking about an EXTREMELY common color palette based on color theory. Not some unique color palette that no one else has done before or will do again.

If you wanna have a debate on the MERITS of your arguments, who should own color ways, does saying you might do something later entitle you to said ownership, how different does something have to be before it's NOT just a copy? Etc, then we can have that conversation, but I would really love it if EVERYONE stopped with the personal attacks.

People CAN disagree without hating each other and trying to make the other side look and FEEL bad. You guys are acting like this thread is somehow malicious, as if it was started specifically to attack TM, but no one is actually addressing the arguments being made in the other direction. Generally speaking if you cannot argue your stance on the merits, there are none.

[Puddsy]

ignore this post

ok

i was gonna talk some **** but then i thought better of it

You mean you DID talk some **** and realized you sounded like a jerk?

One side of this debate is being petty and insulting people and just making general personal attacks.

Let's just remember we are talking about an EXTREMELY common color palette based on color theory. Not some unique color palette that no one else has done before or will do again.

If you wanna have a debate on the MERITS of your arguments, who should own color ways, does saying you might do something later entitle you to said ownership, how different does something have to be before it's NOT just a copy? Etc, then we can have that conversation, but I would really love it if EVERYONE stopped with the personal attacks.

People CAN disagree without hating each other and trying to make the other side look and FEEL bad. You guys are acting like this thread is somehow malicious, as if it was started specifically to attack TM, but no one is actually addressing the arguments being made in the other direction. Generally speaking if you cannot argue your stance on the merits, there are none.

ah no i don't really give a **** about the colorway or the arguments around this GB



if you're curious about what i was gonna say

it's just a direct personal attack, i'm trying to do less of that to other people since i don't like when people do it to me

trying to be less of a ****, but sometimes it still comes out when i don't really mean for it to

[aznreaper]

Honestly, if they want to talk about rights to run a set, Eva theme in cherry profile, feng is the only one with that right since he did it first. I for one wish I was around when he did that buy, so if they don't have feng's blessing to run that set, then they shouldn't be saying anything.

[p_blaze]

neither Rei or Asuka are best girls.

DELET THIS

[iliketimex]

If it's good i will buy it. It is nice having disposable income. If SA troubled minds and this set runs at the same time, i will buy both. If a future GMK troubled minds runs with novelties, I will get that too. SA TM is a holy grail kit, so if it comes up there isn't any other kit that will compete with it.

In this set I really like the orange mods and all of the mod kits, even more than the base. I hope all of the mod kits make the cut.

[donutcat]

Some more neat renders from amnesia for all the mad lads here

[MajorKoos]

Some more neat renders from amnesia for all the mad lads here

Show Image

Show Image

Reminds me of a scene from Good Morning Vietnam describing some new uniforms.
If you're gonna clash, clash!

[amnesia0287]

[soupymeatballs]

Show Image

Looks great! Can't wait

[amnesia0287]

https://imgur.com/gallery/gdyfN

[darthzero]

Not only am I losing a lot of respect for many prominent community members, but this thread is quite literally making me dumber. Seriously, this is some petty BS. I'm really starting to hate that I even got involved in this community at all if this is the kinda **** they're gonna squabble over. I thought this hobby was generally participated in by adults, not toddlers.

+1