"Space bar transplant" - what do you mean here? Replacing it with a lighter model M one?
I dont think that terminal board is a Model F.
I like the second layout better. That's easy to do on a Model M (although I do like the function keys even better next to the space bar and having two of them). Whats a OPT key?
And don't forget the Retr0brite part of the mod.Show Image(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4972&stc=1&d=1254670164)
This (http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/08/11/how-apple-keyboards-lost-a-logo-and-windows-pcs-gained-one/) is a great article on the Apple key history.
No - the IBM entry in the wiki is kinda stalled
Funny thing is although I started out on Apple IIs I can't remember anything about the keyboard.
Anybody got a good generic name for the Alt/Opt key? (Do we need one?)
An important question for the Model F experts in this thread. When the key is depressed on a model F keyboard, does the plate go towards the printed circuit board... or away from it?
And you know why I'm asking - could 3278 keys be used on a Model F board, or not?
An important question for the Model F experts in this thread. When the key is depressed on a model F keyboard, does the plate go towards the printed circuit board... or away from it?The hammers are pressed down when you press the key, just like a model M.
And you know why I'm asking - could 3278 keys be used on a Model F board, or not?
Wouldn't aluminum be cheaper?
I'm pretty sure, as aluminum is a pretty common element, and stainless steel is an alloy of several different metals, and there are several different grades of stainless steel available...it just simplifies things to get aluminum.
:) i don't know - do you think it would?I think the foam is only there to stick to the spring tubes so they won't fall out when you separate the backplate from the front.
i was also considering plastic for the new top plate / template. if the plates were flat instead of curved (heresy, i know), then the foam pad might not be needed.
Lasers for plastic?
Check emachineshop.com (http://www.emachineshop.com/) for something like this.
Tell me when you have a Model F with a usable layout.
I think the only way to mod a Model F to change the key locations would be to make your own printed circuit board to replace the one that came with the keyboard. Electronics hobbyists have done it, so it's possible.
I'd have one already if I thought the ISO keyboard was usable - as I have two IBM 122-key keyboards, one a Model M terminal keyboard, and one the big Model F one for the 3270 PC.
:) i'm interested in seeing their work. do you remember where you saw that?
edit: how come the 3270 board isn't usable... interface compatibility?
It used to be fairly common for electronics hobbyists to make their own printed circuit boards. Just single-sided single-layer, though. You could buy a kit where you got a board completely covered with copper on one side, and you stuck a mask to the copper, and then used an acid solution provided in the kit to remove the copper that was exposed.
Hey that pic looks fine! You might want to think of making sure the controller picks up the "extra" pads - the two next to the shift keys and the one next to ENTER (can't tell from the pic if that one is there). That way when you play with layouts later all you have to do is stuff the key wells differently with springs/hammers/keys.
Capacitive Sensor Design Resources
http://www.planetanalog.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=196902891
http://www.slideshare.net/ruthmoore08/capacitance-sensing-pccompatible-usb-capsense-matrix-keyboard
http://sensi.org/~svo/capsensor/index.en.html
Another article mentioned in the Site Editor's Note in the first link - -
http://www.planetanalog.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=189602704
EDIT: Also found a direct link to a PDF of the article in your second link that is a bit more convenient to view than the flash-based version on the slideshare site - -
https://secure.cypress.com/?docID=2442
the plates are connected by sliding tabs. one of the tabs is longer, and bends to lock the plates together.
Do the barrels apply additional pressure to the pcb?
Wondered about that. I think the rubber mousepad type stuff might be a good substitute. Cutting all the holes wouldn't be much fun though. I have some really old mouse pads around here that look bad but aren't coming apart.
$6 nonfunctional on Ebay. (http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-Keyboard-Part-No-1391401-Model-M-IBM-for-parts_W0QQitemZ150381282129QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item23036c4351) Shipping seems high so maybe if you email him you can talk him down.
The inserts are the problem. You have to get a keyboard for those.
Also, that keyboard being a 1391401 from 1989 almost certainly has stabilizer bars instead of inserts and, of course, two-piece keys.
You would need a later model to get both one-piece keys and inserts, though you could get inserts in a later Blue Label 1391401 if you don't mind two-piece on the non-insert keys.
If your phone has a "macro mode" or an option or switch which has a little flower icon, use it. It allows for better quality closeup shots.
Sorry to get back onto the whole foam thing but it looks like the holes are keyed so the foam really doesn't even hold the wells in place. More sound insulation than anything else.
Nice layout. It looks like it will be tricky getting everything aligned - after my N52 mod I appreciated the small tolerances involved.
this layout features:
...
- the original number-pad arrows,
Is the pad active next to the Rshift key? I still like the traditional T style better. It would be offcenter by a 1/4" but still not bad.
My Model M International (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:7046) has that pad active.
...snip... this layout features: ...snip...Show Image(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5663&stc=1&d=1258086917)
Where are Ins, Del, Home, End, PgUp & PgDn?
So, the attention keypress will be (for instance) Ctl+Alt+Fn+Backspace?
OK, here's a pic from Chloe showing those pins poking through the foam in a XT Model F.
On the AT Model F, there's no foam on the top plate. Only between the two plates, so most of it is unexposed and in good condition.
Everything looks pretty similar from the F AT vs F in the pics except the metal back plate and the notches in the plate are in a different part relative to the circle. Controller obviously. Wonder if springs/hammers are the same?
Is the pad active next to the Rshift key? I still like the traditional T style better. It would be offcenter by a 1/4" but still not bad.
Everything looks pretty similar from the F AT vs F in the pics except the metal back plate and the notches in the plate are in a different part relative to the circle. Controller obviously. Wonder if springs/hammers are the same?One difference I've found is that the backplate of the key assembly is a lot more "loose", i.e. you can slide it open by hand and the barrels can still move a bit when the thing is assembled. Compare this with an XT where I needed a hammer to shift the plates and where the barrels are clamped down.
Really interesting. What are you using for the electronics of it? The same controller?
the controller is a Teensy mini AVR development board, which will be running open-source GEEKey software.
this mod will also use a homemade capacitive sensor PCB, thereby replacing all of the Model F's original electronics :)
What's the capacitive sensor going to do?
This is where it gets interesting. How are you going to reverse engineer a Model F capacitive circuit??
the capacitive matrix pcb senses whether each key's hammer is in the down or up position (close to, or far away from, the pcb)... in order to register keypresses.
this is similar to the model m's membrane sheets, but instead of relying on the conduction (or not) of electricity, it uses "capacitive coupling" of a test signal:
if a hammer is close to the pcb, a test signal will pass through sensor pads and be detected; but if a hammer is far away, the signal is blocked.
Do you have to do that because the teensy won't register the electrical connection or something? Why not just use the normal matrix? Oh because you ruined the matrix when you hacked the board apart? Why not just rewire it? Or it's easier to do it this way?
ideally i want to gather enough information, materials specs, cad files, source code, assembly techniques etc... so that keyboards based on model f technology can be manufactured again, in a modern and affordable form.
So you're using that method so that you can manufacture it down the road, not for any practical reason?
Ah that's interesting.. how many keys will the teensy support?
i'm planning a 15x5 matrix (using 20 pins), and saving a few more pins for an rgb led...
A 15x5 matrix will be quite dense and introduce a lot of possibilities for ghost keys to occur; at least on a conductive matrix w/o diodes this would be the case. If there is no connection between the pads, there is no way for ghosting on a capacitive matrix, right?
i plan to test this. hopefully a 2x2 matrix made of cardboard and aluminum foil will be good enough to know for certain :)
They don't... Where did you get that idea?
Regarding Ghosting it seems to me that it doesn't matter what kind of switch mechanism is used. It's inherent to the way the matrix is laid out.
The other thing is keybounce and other issues and how a capacative circuit handles that. Dunno - seems complicated. May be wrong - I'm not an EE.
Regarding Ghosting it seems to me that it doesn't matter what kind of switch mechanism is used. It's inherent to the way the matrix is laid out.Actually, it's easy once you think of it: the capacitance varies with the distance between the hammer and board. When the hammer bounces, it only bounces a fraction of the distance it should usually overcome to be considered closed so the capacitance won't vary much. Hence the only thing you need is a "Schmitt trigger" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schmitt_trigger) which has two states: [capacitance is less than "switch closed" threshold] or [capacitance is greater than the "open switch" threshold]. Anything in-between is considered hysteresis so you simply stay in the current state.
The other thing is keybounce and other issues and how a capacative circuit handles that. Dunno - seems complicated. May be wrong - I'm not an EE.
Hence the only thing you need is a "Schmitt trigger" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schmitt_trigger) which has two states: [capacitance is less than "switch closed" threshold] or [capacitance is greater than the "open switch" threshold]. Anything in-between is considered hysteresis so you simply stay in the current state.
Is the concrete to make the heaviest keyboard ever? :P
Here's a mouse to go with it.Show Image(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/04/mice-xiamen.jpg)
apparently those are in Xiamen, China (http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/26/herd-of-oversized-concrete-computer-mice-seen-rushing-for-the-sh/)
This thread/project is amazing. kudos.
Have you tried contacting IBM for the controller information? I mean, this patent is at least 100 years old it can't be a big company secret or anything. Probably not. At the worst, they'd just hang up on you.
Looks awesome! This is the first thing I've typed using dvorak without looking at a cheat card! :)