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geekhack Community => Input Devices => Topic started by: Lukeyslife on Thu, 12 February 2015, 15:07:03
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Hi everyone,
So I have had an annoying issue being any mouse I use with my computer doesn't feel right (sensitivity wise). This affects anything that uses a mouse, not just games even the desktop and also outside of OS programs e.g. startup repair, or other partition programs which require mouse input.
When I started gaming on a standard PC around 2-3 years ago I never really had this problem until maybe around 2 years ago and since then it has bugged me.
Now since then I have changed pretty much every component possible in a PC even my OS and still nothing is right.
What could be the cause, well I will run through some components and explain what I changed and why; also giving my input as to why I can tick it off of the list of possible causes.
CPU: So I have only owned 2 CPU's both AMD based, my first was an AMD A8-5500. After then my current CPU is now an AMD FX-8350, I don't believe the CPU to be the cause.
RAM: Well I've only swapped out my ram once also, I had 4GB of non-branded RAM before (2 sticks). Now I have 2 sticks of 8GB DDR3 G-SKILL 1600MHz ram, I dont know too much about ram especially timings and stuff but I couldn't say that the RAM is to blame.
Graphics Card: I first owned a Radeon HD 660 1GB GDDR5 card from Sapphire, it was good but lacked overall power and bottlenecked my CPU; I did have the same mouse problem with both my old CPU and GPU. My current card is a Radeon HD 7850 2GB GDDR5 again from Sapphire; I was thinking maybe the graphics card could have been at fault maybe with input lag; but I'm not 100% sure.
PSU: Well I have owned 2 different Corsair PSU's (3 actually but one was faulty) I used to use a Corsair CX600W PSU but I changed it because I wanted a semi-modular PSU; now I own the Corsair CS650M.
I can't say that it's down to the PSU because I have tried a few different PSU's and none seem to have made any difference.
Motherboard: I have owned around 3 different mobo's, first an Asus M5A78LM-USB/3 the LAN broke so I got an Asrock motherboard then shortly after I found out it couldn't fully support the CPU TDP. Now I have the Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 board.
None have really changed how the mouse feels either so that takes them out of the question.
Mice: I own around 4-5 different gaming mice along with 3 different mouse pads, all of them feel pretty much the same albeit different due to different sensors etc.
To Note:
I have done what you may already be thinking, turning off acceleration, changing DPI settings, installing drivers for mice and graphics cards, and changing a whole host of settings none of which "fix the issue" they change the sensitivity but it seems to be down to hardware.
So could anyone think of anything I may have missed which is glaringly obvious?
any help would be fantastic.
Updates
Since then I have negated mice 100% being the cause now I have tried 5-6 different mice some with "perfect" sensors I can negate it.
I unplugged my case fans which did seem to help the overall movement slightly, more to do with the speed upon movement (the speed between moving from a to b).
To describe the issue a little better, I would say that moving my "cursor" in-game I feel that I have to PUSH the mouse to make it move correctly rather than PULL it. This may sound strange most, most low sensitivity players will have this anyway but regardless of sensitivity even when in CS:GO I have 4.23 sens with 800 DPI it does feel pretty fast but it still requires me to PUSH the mouse to the right location.
I'm coming closer to nailing it down, currently I am placing it around the area of Power. By power I mean power into the PC and to every component either lacking in strength or the power not being consistent enough leaving the mouse feeling weird 100% of the time.
Also I may blame it to do with polling rates which are sorted via the CPU, however using a previous CPU + MOBO setup I am sure that the problem was present back then, I only say polling rates as it links directly to power with USB sockets and polling rates are also 100% of the time so there is a correlation between the two.
Thanks,
Luke
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Do said mice function properly on other machines?
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I will try all of the mice on my laptop and see if it makes any difference
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Do said mice function properly on other machines?
So I plugged my current mouse (Gigabyte M6900) into my laptop to play Halo: CE, my laptop is around 3-4 years old so even basic games I don't think 60fps was doable. I noticed the mouse did feel better but it still wasn't perfect, I'm not sure whether it was due to low performance making it feel odd or not but it wasn't perfect.
I'm beginning to think that the mice I do own I have been unlucky with, I own the Gigabyte M6900, MadCatz RAT 3, Anker 8200DPI mouse, Perixx MX2000IIB.
So two of those mice are laser and 2 optical, I notice with both laser they feel awfully slow in movement on anyone of my surfaces. The optical mice feel better but they still have the same inconsistencies.
I'm just going to purchase a Logitech G402 to check whether or not it is down to mice, I am going to send it back with the Amazon return policy if it isn't working right and if it does work I will keep it.
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What do you mean "not perfect"? Don't test the mice in games since the games can really tax your hardware and cause latency with the mice. How do they function outside of gaming?
You have 4 or 5 mice that aren't "perfect"? It's probably not the mice. I don't think I've ever had a laser mouse go bad. The Microsoft Trackball optical I have now is at least 12 years old.
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What do you mean "not perfect"? Don't test the mice in games since the games can really tax your hardware and cause latency with the mice. How do they function outside of gaming?
You have 4 or 5 mice that aren't "perfect"? It's probably not the mice. I don't think I've ever had a laser mouse go bad. The Microsoft Trackball optical I have now is at least 12 years old.
They all feel really inconsistent, I can't aim properly regardless of sensitivity. I have always thought it is down to hardware because of having a few mice I can't believe all to be bad, but at the same time I have swapped out every component which could cause the issue and there are no real pointers to say any hardware isn't working properly.
Also it's not down to the OS and the main settings like (6/11 slider etc.) as I have tried many different configurations.
I have to believe it is coming from the source which are the mice themselves, I have read about inconsistencies with the mice I own anway; also laser mice seem poor to me they don;t feel right at all even on other computers.
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You are focusing on details that don't matter and are really just marketing "fluff" aimed at getting gamers to spend more money.
Try it in the OS and standard Apps. Is it okay?
Try it from a bootable USB or CD like Ubunutu. Is it okay?
Try it on another PC with standard Apps or even with a bootable USB/CD. Is it okay?
Try "gaming" with it. Is it okay?
If you only say no to gaming then it's not your mouse hardware.
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so the MadCatz RAT3 apparently is very high in input lag, could be a problem. also seems to jitter on many surfaces?
the M6900 has a strange sensor, seems to be similar to the Kana and Kinzu v2? which was fine, but not the most consistent. had some strange minor prediction and whatnot.
the Anker 8200 seems to be avago laser sensor, which is known to be inconsistent. same with the Perixx. it just doesn't track the same each swipe, depending on your movement speed. so with lower sensitivities, it won't be the best.
I think you have the right hunch... but you should also consider your mousing surface. I don't think you have written what mousepad you use yet? :)
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so the MadCatz RAT3 apparently is very high in input lag, could be a problem. also seems to jitter on many surfaces?
the M6900 has a strange sensor, seems to be similar to the Kana and Kinzu v2? which was fine, but not the most consistent. had some strange minor prediction and whatnot.
the Anker 8200 seems to be avago laser sensor, which is known to be inconsistent. same with the Perixx. it just doesn't track the same each swipe, depending on your movement speed. so with lower sensitivities, it won't be the best.
I think you have the right hunch... but you should also consider your mousing surface. I don't think you have written what mousepad you use yet? :)
Yeah I have read the same things about those mice, I have also tried them on different surfaces. I believe I tried the Perixx mouse on a different PC which I restored to factory settings, even then I felt the mouse still felt poor just on the desktop
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You are focusing on details that don't matter and are really just marketing "fluff" aimed at getting gamers to spend more money.
Try it in the OS and standard Apps. Is it okay?
Try it from a bootable USB or CD like Ubunutu. Is it okay?
Try it on another PC with standard Apps or even with a bootable USB/CD. Is it okay?
Try "gaming" with it. Is it okay?
If you only say no to gaming then it's not your mouse hardware.
I will try this now, what do you mean by standard "apps" do you mean just standard windows surfaces?
I'm hoping it is just the mice, I don't think there is anything else possible to do with my PC otherwise.
Also the current mouse I'm using does have movement problems with speed, when I make even slightly fast movements it jitters a bit and sometimes stops the movement altogether
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Hi,
So I tried using Ubuntu and the mouse felt exactly the same on the desktop, I even downloaded a game called Cube 2: Saurbraten some arena styled FPS game. It felt the same as in Windows no difference.
So it either comes down to hardware or mouse hardware.
Hopefully the new logitech mouse will prove it, if it isn't down to the mouse then I'm not exactly sure what hardware issue my PC is having.
Especially as everything else seems to be working fine.
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the G402 is a good, known "flawless" mouse - do let us know how it fares when you get it please!
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the G402 is a good, known "flawless" mouse - do let us know how it fares when you get it please!
will do, also thanks very much for the support. I hope this will "fix" it if it does well I will make a guide / video covering this strange issue to warn or aid others.
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So I plugged my current mouse (Gigabyte M6900) into my laptop to play Halo: CE, my laptop is around 3-4 years old so even basic games I don't think 60fps was doable. I noticed the mouse did feel better but it still wasn't perfect, I'm not sure whether it was due to low performance making it feel odd or not but it wasn't perfect.
halo actually has acceleration that can not be turned off.
be sure to test in games of which it's known they have good mouse implementation.
having stable/good fps can make a difference as well, of course :)
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The PixArt sensor in the Gigabyte 6900 does have some prediction. The RAT 3 is probably the most accurate mouse in your collection. Try what I mentioned in this post using it and see if you like how it feels: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68355.msg1636324#msg1636324
Also, as Bucake mentioned, try it with games that you KNOW have good mouse implementation (such as CS:Source 1.6?) and test for acceleration by moving the mouse at different speeds and returning to the same spot (for instance, move it away fast and back slowly) without lifting off to see if the view returns to the same position. If it doesn't, there's acceleration happening somewhere, if it does, there's no significant acceleration present. If there's no acceleration, but it still feels weird, then it could be prediction, angle snapping, etc, but those should not be present on the RAT3.
so the MadCatz RAT3 apparently is very high in input lag, could be a problem. also seems to jitter on many surfaces?
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Sources? On a hard surface (plastic and aluminium Steelseries pads) I've found the original laser RAT 3 to be the best mouse I've ever tried (Logitech G9, Roccat Pyra, optical RAT 3, etc.). No jitter, no acceleration, no input lag, no angle snapping, no prediction. The RAT5 and above have a different sensor and they DO have various sensor-related issues.
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The PixArt sensor in the Gigabyte 6900 does have some prediction. The RAT 3 is probably the most accurate mouse in your collection. Try what I mentioned in this post using it and see if you like how it feels: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68355.msg1636324#msg1636324
Also, as Bucake mentioned, try it with games that you KNOW have good mouse implementation (such as CS:Source 1.6?) and test for acceleration by moving the mouse at different speeds and returning to the same spot (for instance, move it away fast and back slowly) without lifting off to see if the view returns to the same position. If it doesn't, there's acceleration happening somewhere, if it does, there's no significant acceleration present. If there's no acceleration, but it still feels weird, then it could be prediction, angle snapping, etc, but those should not be present on the RAT3.
so the MadCatz RAT3 apparently is very high in input lag, could be a problem. also seems to jitter on many surfaces?
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Sources? On a hard surface (plastic and aluminium Steelseries pads) I've found the original laser RAT 3 to be the best mouse I've ever tried (Logitech G9, Roccat Pyra, optical RAT 3, etc.). No jitter, no acceleration, no input lag, no angle snapping, no prediction. The RAT5 and above have a different sensor and they DO have various sensor-related issues.
I have tried playing with Counterstrike and other games I know which are great with mouse sensitivity options as well as not having any acceleration etc.
I did as mentioned in an earlier post using Ubuntu and the mouse felt the same, I even used the mouse on my laptop and it still felt poor. I am seriously hoping that when my Logitech mouse arrives it will solve the problem.
It does feel weird how I could have 4-5 mice which are bad, but at the same time I have tried pretty much everything on a PC to solve it; I have used them on different pc's and operating systems they will feel slightly different but are still way imprecise.
Especially when in games such as CS:GO I notice how imprecise they are (the mice), they make me over aim or under aim constantly. It feels as if there is some acceleration but I know by testing that there isn't any at all. So because of that I have to blame the sensors for being imprecise.
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So you've tried the RAT 3 on a hard surface with no driver installed on a clean windows install, plugged into a direct motherboard USB port, Markc fix in windows with the correct setting, CS Source 1.6 with -noforcemspd -noforcemparms -noforcemaccel, vsync off, no antialiasing, no anisotropic filtering and it still feels "wrong"?
In that case, there's nothing I'm aware of that can fix it. I don't see a new mouse making any difference.
Many of the games you mentioned in the other thread have known issues with mouse acceleration, lag or smoothing. Even CS:GO has lag problems, even with raw input enabled (in fact it seems to be better with it turned off). Seriously, try the combination of the Markc fix and CS Source to test.
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So you've tried the RAT 3 on a hard surface with no driver installed on a clean windows install, plugged into a direct motherboard USB port, Markc fix in windows with the correct setting, CS Source 1.6 with -noforcemspd -noforcemparms -noforcemaccel, vsync off, no antialiasing, no anisotropic filtering and it still feels "wrong"?
In that case, there's nothing I'm aware of that can fix it. I don't see a new mouse making any difference.
Many of the games you mentioned in the other thread have known issues with mouse acceleration, lag or smoothing. Even CS:GO has lag problems, even with raw input enabled (in fact it seems to be better with it turned off). Seriously, try the combination of the Markc fix and CS Source to test.
yup I have tried the Rat with no driver etc.
I have done that with every mouse I own, it's not to do with game software or settings. I tried a game on ubuntu clean install the same feeling, the Logitech mouse is meant to be "flawless".
If it isn't the mice causing the problem, I have no idea what else it could be. Everyone I have asked online had no idea what was happening either, I have swapped out pretty much every component in my PC with the problem still existing.
The only thing I feel it could be is my graphics card, but i'm not even sure how the card would affect the mouse exactly
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So you've tried the RAT 3 on a hard surface with no driver installed on a clean windows install, plugged into a direct motherboard USB port, Markc fix in windows with the correct setting, CS Source 1.6 with -noforcemspd -noforcemparms -noforcemaccel, vsync off, no antialiasing, no anisotropic filtering and it still feels "wrong"?
In that case, there's nothing I'm aware of that can fix it. I don't see a new mouse making any difference.
Many of the games you mentioned in the other thread have known issues with mouse acceleration, lag or smoothing. Even CS:GO has lag problems, even with raw input enabled (in fact it seems to be better with it turned off). Seriously, try the combination of the Markc fix and CS Source to test.
I have just tried CS:Source with the exact settings you said, and again the same feeling. the mouse feels like it has de-acceleration however regardless of speed whateever movement I make it doesn't do it fast or accurate enough
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it's not just that you have terrible input lag from your monitor or something? I don't think I saw what monitor you are using?
input lag truly is the worst enemy of CS gaming :p
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Hmmm, yeah, could be graphics / GPU related then. You seem to have eliminated pretty much everything else.
Are you using HDMI, DisplayPort, DVI or VGA connection and what monitor are you using? Are you using dual screens?
HDMI processing can cause lag, GPU overheating can cause lag, scaling can cause lag, secondary display can cause lag.
If possible, try in native resolution full screen, DVI connection, no AA, no AF (both driver and in-game), no vsync, with the case open and really good ventilation to the graphics card. Also clear out any dust.
If you have an old CRT screen, try that (no scaling, processing, etc, just signal in goes direct to screen).
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Hmmm, yeah, could be graphics / GPU related then. You seem to have eliminated pretty much everything else.
Are you using HDMI, DisplayPort, DVI or VGA connection and what monitor are you using? Are you using dual screens?
HDMI processing can cause lag, GPU overheating can cause lag, scaling can cause lag, secondary display can cause lag.
If possible, try in native resolution full screen, DVI connection, no AA, no AF (both driver and in-game), no vsync, with the case open and really good ventilation to the graphics card. Also clear out any dust.
If you have an old CRT screen, try that (no scaling, processing, etc, just signal in goes direct to screen).
I have the HDMI connected to my BenQ GL2450HT Monitor, I ran a test with my old BenQ monitor for input lag and both were fine. I have my secondary monitor off and unplugged atm anyway.
I do have GPU scaling on as when I install the graphics drivers even at 1080p resolution it doesn't fill the entire screen, I will retract the "overscan" number and see what happens.
I think my GPU is fine from overheating because when reading temps it only ever reaches around 57c max usually under full load.
I did use to have a HD6670 before this card but even then I believe the problem existed even moving up to the current card the HD7850, It happened on both resolutions both 1366x768 and now 1080p I believe I am not 100% certain but I am pretty sure.
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it's not just that you have terrible input lag from your monitor or something? I don't think I saw what monitor you are using?
input lag truly is the worst enemy of CS gaming :p
It kind of feels like input lag, but I know that input lag is when you make a movement and the mouse doesn't respond instantly. It feels fine in terms of "lag" sense, but overall tracking performance is poor.
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Hmmm, yeah, could be graphics / GPU related then. You seem to have eliminated pretty much everything else.
Are you using HDMI, DisplayPort, DVI or VGA connection and what monitor are you using? Are you using dual screens?
HDMI processing can cause lag, GPU overheating can cause lag, scaling can cause lag, secondary display can cause lag.
If possible, try in native resolution full screen, DVI connection, no AA, no AF (both driver and in-game), no vsync, with the case open and really good ventilation to the graphics card. Also clear out any dust.
If you have an old CRT screen, try that (no scaling, processing, etc, just signal in goes direct to screen).
I have the HDMI connected to my BenQ GL2450HT Monitor, I ran a test with my old BenQ monitor for input lag and both were fine. I have my secondary monitor off and unplugged atm anyway.
I do have GPU scaling on as when I install the graphics drivers even at 1080p resolution it doesn't fill the entire screen, I will retract the "overscan" number and see what happens.
I think my GPU is fine from overheating because when reading temps it only ever reaches around 57c max usually under full load.
I did use to have a HD6670 before this card but even then I believe the problem existed even moving up to the current card the HD7850, It happened on both resolutions both 1366x768 and now 1080p I believe I am not 100% certain but I am pretty sure.
You can get it working in native 1080 mode like this:
Set resolution to 1920x1080
Open the Catalyst Control Center
Display the My Digital Flat Panels menu.
Click on Scaling options (Digital Flat Panel)
Turn Scaling to 0%
Then you'll have no scaling and should be running full screen in native resolution. With using HDMI and scaling, there most likely is some lag, but that may not be enought to cause what you're experiencing. Worth trying to use DVI instead I reckon, at least for some testing. HDMI needs processing, DVI is more direct.
So... I'm a bit confused as to what it is that you're experiencing exactly. Is the problem acceleration (positive or negative doesn't matter, it's still acceleration), lag or tracking issues? If it's tracking, what surface are you using?
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I think your problem is you're reading the OCN forums too much (and drank the guy "r0ach"s koolaid).
To those who don't know, r0ach is a dude who constantly claims Nvidia video drivers affect mouse performance, as well as certain Windows updates. :confused:
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Hmmm, yeah, could be graphics / GPU related then. You seem to have eliminated pretty much everything else.
Are you using HDMI, DisplayPort, DVI or VGA connection and what monitor are you using? Are you using dual screens?
HDMI processing can cause lag, GPU overheating can cause lag, scaling can cause lag, secondary display can cause lag.
If possible, try in native resolution full screen, DVI connection, no AA, no AF (both driver and in-game), no vsync, with the case open and really good ventilation to the graphics card. Also clear out any dust.
If you have an old CRT screen, try that (no scaling, processing, etc, just signal in goes direct to screen).
I have the HDMI connected to my BenQ GL2450HT Monitor, I ran a test with my old BenQ monitor for input lag and both were fine. I have my secondary monitor off and unplugged atm anyway.
I do have GPU scaling on as when I install the graphics drivers even at 1080p resolution it doesn't fill the entire screen, I will retract the "overscan" number and see what happens.
I think my GPU is fine from overheating because when reading temps it only ever reaches around 57c max usually under full load.
I did use to have a HD6670 before this card but even then I believe the problem existed even moving up to the current card the HD7850, It happened on both resolutions both 1366x768 and now 1080p I believe I am not 100% certain but I am pretty sure.
You can get it working in native 1080 mode like this:
Set resolution to 1920x1080
Open the Catalyst Control Center
Display the My Digital Flat Panels menu.
Click on Scaling options (Digital Flat Panel)
Turn Scaling to 0%
Then you'll have no scaling and should be running full screen in native resolution. With using HDMI and scaling, there most likely is some lag, but that may not be enought to cause what you're experiencing. Worth trying to use DVI instead I reckon, at least for some testing. HDMI needs processing, DVI is more direct.
So... I'm a bit confused as to what it is that you're experiencing exactly. Is the problem acceleration (positive or negative doesn't matter, it's still acceleration), lag or tracking issues? If it's tracking, what surface are you using?
Hey so I got the new Logitech mouse, and unfortunately you were right about it not being the mice exactly.
However the sensor on the new logitech mouse does feel fantastic, my first TDM match on CS:GO I had a great time aiming. But it still has that weird feeling that it the cursor almost acts against my movement both with slow and fast movements.
I'm guessing this absolutely has to do with my GPU and monitor, question is what can I change to fix it once and for all.
I have noticed when using paint to draw circles and random lines, that on 125Hz polling rate the jittery look disappears but on 1000Hz it comes back. I don't think this is too much but it's strange how it's smoother on the lower rate.
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I think your problem is you're reading the OCN forums too much (and drank the guy "r0ach"s koolaid).
To those who don't know, r0ach is a dude who constantly claims Nvidia video drivers affect mouse performance, as well as certain Windows updates. :confused:
I understand what your saying, but I actually agree with roach. I have my own example of when I did an Update a year ago when I first installed 8.1 it changed how the mouse felt completely, he does look deep into it maybe too far but I have noticed that with my strange problem.
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So, have you narrowed it down to either acceleration, lag or tracking yet?
Have you tried with a DVI cable and native resolution without scaling, AA, AF or vsync?
I'm a big fan of the original RAT 3 and the new TE. I also have the newer optical RAT 3, but the old one seems to have marginally better tracking.
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So, have you narrowed it down to either acceleration, lag or tracking yet?
Have you tried with a DVI cable and native resolution without scaling, AA, AF or vsync?
I'm a big fan of the original RAT 3 and the new TE. I also have the newer optical RAT 3, but the old one seems to have marginally better tracking.
To be honest it feels like negative or deceleration, because any movement I make (in-game) i.e a 180 turn naturally my brain and hand-eye co-ordination with muscle memory I should be able to make the move fine in one sweep considering I use a higher sensitivity than most; the cursor moves slightly behind my movement or the speed doesn't match it.
It isn't input lag exactly as I know there is delay in the movement, it's more to do with the actual tracking speed always feeling too slow or slightly behind, I can still make the movements but they feel slower and more imprecise than they would with any other PC.
I tried DVI but I could see flickering in-game it became really noticeable, I even tried my old monitor but that felt the same so I can pretty much maybe negate monitors being at least part of the cause.I have had most of those options turned off in Catalyst for a while but even in applications I tend to do it there as well. As games tend to work with sensitivity on the desktop, because it feels weird on the desktop it has the same affect in any game I play. I will know when the issue is resolved as it shall feel normal on Windows before I jump into a game lol.
I loved my RAT3, when I first received it maybe 2 years ago I am sure it felt fantastic and instantly my game was upped by a major amount.
I was planning to send back my new logitech mouse as I planned if it didn't "fix" the problem, however the sensor and software seem very good to me. Even with the problem I am able to aim still but I can't aim naturally i.e. I find it hard to kill 2 targets side by side even if they are close together I can't swipe the cursor to fix onto the second as the cursor pretty much under aims or over aims.
I may try and record some gameplay whilst recording my mouse movements to give you a better idea of what's going on
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Sounds like this will be a tough nut to crack...
A couple other things to try:
Windows 8.1 does some weird stuff with the mouse. It can slow down the input by trying to combine the movements for different programs. There is an update patch to help with this: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2908279
Also, just turning off "Enhance pointer precision" in Windows mouse settings works for most prgrams, but many games call a function that enables it while in-game (Microsoft changed the way the function works). The MarkC fix sorts this out by applying an acceleration-less curve map to the enhance precision feature, so that's also worth a try. Make sure you select the correct DPI scaling and Windows version.
I'd keep it connected with DVI for testing these and see if there is any improvement.
Is there any particular hardware or software you changed around the time you began to notice this?
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Sounds like this will be a tough nut to crack...
A couple other things to try:
Windows 8.1 does some weird stuff with the mouse. It can slow down the input by trying to combine the movements for different programs. There is an update patch to help with this: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2908279
Also, just turning off "Enhance pointer precision" in Windows mouse settings works for most prgrams, but many games call a function that enables it while in-game (Microsoft changed the way the function works). The MarkC fix sorts this out by applying an acceleration-less curve map to the enhance precision feature, so that's also worth a try. Make sure you select the correct DPI scaling and Windows version.
I'd keep it connected with DVI for testing these and see if there is any improvement.
Is there any particular hardware or software you changed around the time you began to notice this?
Well at that time I had just got the RAT3, thats when I started noticing the issue that my aim was badly off all of a sudden. Obviously back then I jumped onto the conclusion that it had to be the mouse.
I will run through what has changed (component wise) since then from previous version to new component maybe there is something wrong after I changed it all.
So my first PC build was actually premade, a standard desktop that I wanted to upgrade over time.
Components:
AMD A8-5500 APU with built in graphics ATI Radeon 7560D
4GB unbranded 1300Mhz RAM
Standard unbranded PSU maybe 300W
Unbranded Motherboard
Western Digital 1TB Green Caviar Drive
At the time I had a really cheap old monitor it might have even been a TV.
So back then I was really happy playing PC games, I had no problem with aim back then I forgot about sensitivity. This was because any sensitivity I chose even around 50% higher or lower than I should have had it at still felt good.
After I will I got into playing some bigger titles like Planetside 2, I was playing Black ops 2 a lot then as well; after I while I noticed that performance wasn't fantastic so i decided to buy a HD 6670 to get better fps.
So I installed the HD6670 with the drivers and I had better performance and I believe back then I believe I had everything still fine, this was on Windows 7 (guessing 64-bit).
I believe this was when I picked up the RAT3 as my old mouse had some button problems, it was an old unbranded mouse guessing it was 125Hz but it did the job fine.
So again a while later I was happy but again I wanted more performance so I picked up my second GPU (current) a HD 7850 2GB GDRR5 card.
Now at this point I may have had the problem occur when I had my old card, but I got the card anyway and after a short while I noticed my performance didn't really increase.
So I realized (still being new to PC gaming) that my CPU was bottlenecking, so I went and bought a FX-8350 (current CPU) with an Asus M5A78l-m/usb3 motherboard.
At this time I am sure that I purchased my 8GB RAM kit (current) G-SKILL 1600Mhz which did speed up the PC a lot.
So after those changed I have just bought mouse after mouse, I have added a HD Western Digital BLUE 1TB drive, I have changed motherboards (because 1 didn't support TDP of CPU).
So it could either be swapping out a component or maybe I changed a setting within Windows, but I have reinstalled my OS a couple of times fresh so I doubt it.
I have messaged a guy named R0ach to get his view on things, he knows quite a bit about latency etc. Hopefully he can give some input.
thanks very much for the support though, I hope I can crack it soon it's becoming more frustrating every day just wanting to play properly like everyone else can.
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sucks that this issue is still going on, man :(
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sucks that this issue is still going on, man :(
I know it sucks, spent too much time and money just for a PC to have it not work :(
I'm speaking to R0ach about the issue, hopefully he can get to the bottom of it.
It may be down to system instability i.e slower performance than expected, as I have noticed the PC isn't a responsive as it used to be
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As it seems I'm not the only one to have this issue, here is a post which may also help describe it from another user on a different forum:
I have a Logitech G9 gaming mouse and it has suddenly become slow and sluggish. I know about all the SetPoint sensitivity settings and had them all exactly where I wanted them and never touched a thing once I got them there. I played very well in FPS games due to my perfect sensitivity I had set. All of the sudden the mouse is very inaccurate, when I try to drag the cursor over a small icon for example, I will either overshoot it or undershoot it. The cursor makes predictable movements when I am trying to move it slightly. I have to drag and drag my mouse it seems to get the cursor to move in whatever direction I want it to. This problem happened a few years back on an old computer and the only way I was able to solve it was to get a whole other system. What could be the cause of this sudden slowdown? It just happened overnight, maybe something to do with installed updates by windows? I can't play games accurately or even click icons accurately and It's going to start driving me insane again, this is like a reoccurring nightmare. The only recently installed items I can think of were Utorrent (Removed now), an HP Blu ray player (Removed), and some windows update that made changes to "Windows LIVE" software. I really need some help I have reinstalled my mouse drivers and tried to use the basic windows mouse settings but they still feel laggy as well. HELP!
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Ok.. sounds like you've put in a good many hours in trying to fix this already..
Count minimum wage.. you've exceeded the replacement cost of the mouse..
Time to just buy a NEW and DIFFERENT mouse.. G400.. FTW.. just get the new version I think it's G502
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Ok.. sounds like you've put in a good many hours in trying to fix this already..
Count minimum wage.. you've exceeded the replacement cost of the mouse..
Time to just buy a NEW and DIFFERENT mouse.. G400.. FTW.. just get the new version I think it's G502
He's tried it with 5 different mice, including G402... Don't think it's a mouse issue.
If the system is not as responsive as it used to be with a fresh install of Windows, though, then something is wrong with the setup / hardware. Have you tried gaming with the same mouse on someone else's system?
Uh wait.... 300W unbranded PSU?!?!?!?!! Really? With an FX-8350 (8 core CPU), 12GB RAM and an HD 7850 2GB?
It could well be causing the problem, but even if it's not the cause of the issue, replace that sucker ASAP!
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Okay, here's another slightly weird, but possible cause. Are you using a WiFi router / card / module? Too close to either the PSU or mouse can cause issues with pointer movement.
I would definitely get a beefier PSU, though, anyway. Cheaper PSU's can have all kinds of issues, from high noise on the lines, to voltages going out of spec for certain components in certain situations, etc.
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Okay, here's another slightly weird, but possible cause. Are you using a WiFi router / card / module? Too close to either the PSU or mouse can cause issues with pointer movement.
I would definitely get a beefier PSU, though, anyway. Cheaper PSU's can have all kinds of issues, from high noise on the lines, to voltages going out of spec for certain components in certain situations, etc.
lol where did having a 300w psu come from? I have a Corsair CS650M PSU.
I do have a strange howling sound inside the PC, that has only started when I installed the latest MOBO.
I've ordered a cheap usb to ps/2 converter to plug the mouse into, it may help as there is no "polling rate".
I hope I can solve it sooner than later, playing CSGO lately everything is there except for aiming even; even basic kills can be a strugle :-X
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Ah, sorry, saw it mentioned as part of the original hardware of your PC and didn't see mention of it being upgraded. That one should do the job decently. If the howling starts when you put load on the system, it could still be PSU causing issues, though.
It's also possible that there is a fan problem causing junk on the power lines and interfering with with the USB power to the mouse causing dropped frames. Try unplugging all the case fans for a short testing session (leave the case open and ensure there's enough airflow for cooling).
Have you tried disabling the third party USB3 controller (does your board use the etron one?) and using only USB2?
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Ah, sorry, saw it mentioned as part of the original hardware of your PC and didn't see mention of it being upgraded. That one should do the job decently. If the howling starts when you put load on the system, it could still be PSU causing issues, though.
It's also possible that there is a fan problem causing junk on the power lines and interfering with with the USB power to the mouse causing dropped frames. Try unplugging all the case fans for a short testing session (leave the case open and ensure there's enough airflow for cooling).
Have you tried disabling the third party USB3 controller (does your board use the etron one?) and using only USB2?
Thanks again for the reply :),
I will unplug some of the case fans, also USB3 is off etc. just usb 2 ports are used currently.
I am relating this to "delay" it's very slight in a sense, it does feel that it slightly stops after my movement; but I mean very slight.
even with high sensitivity (much higher than your average player) it still pretty slow in a way
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Oobly you may be the greatest man alive atm, I unplugged my case fans booted up CSGO loaded into TDM and BOOM I dropped got 40 frags and came second.
Instantly even with the same settings from yesterday I could aim and lock on to targets, maybe it's a massive case of placebo but even when lowering my sensitivity a notch it didn't feel slow like the usual.
I am lost for words ahah, I cant aim 100% but I guess that is down to muscle memory at the minute.
It doesn't feel 100% perfect but if the problem is to do with case fans, I don't think the PC will ever be normal :)
The trouble is if I can't use my case fans what can I do :( and what is the cause. Is it to do with power being drawn causing some delay just in the mouse? seems really strange I don't get how that's possible but it must be.
I'm downloading Planetside 2 now, if it feels better on there as well then I can call it :)
Ideally I want to use the fans lol, but I suppose I would take my aim over a bit of heat anyday.
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:D
cheers
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:D
cheers
Thanks as well dude, I hope this is the last of the problem :)
After so long I can't really believe it may actually be because of fans, I seem really stupid but at the same time no one could have really guessed fans
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HMMMMMM,
Nevermind it hasn't fixed it.....
Spoke to soon lol, it has increased the mouse in speed it feels a little more responsive.
I just cant get 100% precision with the mouse still, at least I have made some progress
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Great to hear there's some progress at least :) Seems to be pointing to 5VSB rail supply problems. Ripple / poor regulation, etc. could be the issue. Do you have an external, powered USB hub you can try? That PSU (Corsair CS650M) doesn't have the best 5VSB line regulation under load: https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Corsair/CS650M/5.html, but it looks within specs. Do you have many USB items connected? Do you have a voltage monitor program you can run in the background / while running a heavy load on the system like a benchmark?
Also, that combination of CPU and graphics card requires 500W to be available on the 12V rail of your PSU, which is really getting close to the limits of what the Corsair can supply. It could just be running a bit too close to it's limits.
I know it's not easy to do without buying one, but if you have a chance, try another PSU with the system.
Anyway, just throwing ideas out there. Hope you get this solved.
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+1 to oobly's posts :D
i monitor this thread, but have nothing to suggest :(
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Great to hear there's some progress at least :) Seems to be pointing to 5VSB rail supply problems. Ripple / poor regulation, etc. could be the issue. Do you have an external, powered USB hub you can try? That PSU (Corsair CS650M) doesn't have the best 5VSB line regulation under load: https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Corsair/CS650M/5.html, but it looks within specs. Do you have many USB items connected? Do you have a voltage monitor program you can run in the background / while running a heavy load on the system like a benchmark?
Also, that combination of CPU and graphics card requires 500W to be available on the 12V rail of your PSU, which is really getting close to the limits of what the Corsair can supply. It could just be running a bit too close to it's limits.
I know it's not easy to do without buying one, but if you have a chance, try another PSU with the system.
Anyway, just throwing ideas out there. Hope you get this solved.
Oh I didn't even realise there were voltage monitors lol, I will try that for sure.
And I never knew that both components take up 500W!! I do have an external power HUB unfortunately that doesn't do much I did use it before and I did feel it was a little more sharp, but then I was told it was probably worse to use one. I would say that adding every other component on top of the 500W draw load would be pretty damn close to it's limit, however the mouse feels the same pretty much on idle. But even so that looks very likely of an issue.
I have tried my old PSU another Corsair which is 600W and that is my old PSU before I upgraded, tomorrow my USB to PS/2 adapter will be here so I was thinking if it's to do with power or polling rates the PS/2 connection should negate this as it's done via interrupt.
It may do absolutely nothing but as it's cheap I can't say no to trying it.
Also thanks very much once again for yours and others (Bucake) support on this random topic, you have both been the best bit of support I've had so far on this issue.
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Quick off-topic note: Would you mind editing your original post to make the title a bit more descriptive? Thanks.
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Quick off-topic note: Would you mind editing your original post to make the title a bit more descriptive? Thanks.
sure thing, I will include updates etc.
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Great to hear there's some progress at least :) Seems to be pointing to 5VSB rail supply problems. Ripple / poor regulation, etc. could be the issue. Do you have an external, powered USB hub you can try? That PSU (Corsair CS650M) doesn't have the best 5VSB line regulation under load: https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Corsair/CS650M/5.html, but it looks within specs. Do you have many USB items connected? Do you have a voltage monitor program you can run in the background / while running a heavy load on the system like a benchmark?
Also, that combination of CPU and graphics card requires 500W to be available on the 12V rail of your PSU, which is really getting close to the limits of what the Corsair can supply. It could just be running a bit too close to it's limits.
I know it's not easy to do without buying one, but if you have a chance, try another PSU with the system.
Anyway, just throwing ideas out there. Hope you get this solved.
Just to add, what kind of numbers should I be looking for in my voltages?
Should I just post an image on full load and let you view it, as to be honest I'm not 100% on what numbers are good and bad lol
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Here is a screenshot link for the Hardware Monitor including temps and voltages:
http://s21.postimg.org/408enp5x3/screee.png
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Here is a screenshot link for the Hardware Monitor including temps and voltages:
http://s21.postimg.org/408enp5x3/screee.png
Voltages look to be WAY under spec.
+12 is at 8.016
+5 is at 3.145
I am thinking this is the majority of the issue
Do you have a volt meter that you can measure voltages with directly off the PSU with it out of the PC?
All you have to do is disconnect ALL power cables from the PSU and put in a jumper between the green and any black wire on the big plug that feeds into the motherboard. With the switch on the PSU on it will turn on as soon as you install the jumper.
If you are getting close to these same numbers, the PSU is toast. If you get normal numbers, it is either to close to max and is voltage is dropping due to efficiency dropping because to close to max loads.
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Here is a screenshot link for the Hardware Monitor including temps and voltages:
http://s21.postimg.org/408enp5x3/screee.png
Voltages look to be WAY under spec.
+12 is at 8.016
+5 is at 3.145
I am thinking this is the majority of the issue
Do you have a volt meter that you can measure voltages with directly off the PSU with it out of the PC?
All you have to do is disconnect ALL power cables from the PSU and put in a jumper between the green and any black wire on the big plug that feeds into the motherboard. With the switch on the PSU on it will turn on as soon as you install the jumper.
If you are getting close to these same numbers, the PSU is toast. If you get normal numbers, it is either to close to max and is voltage is dropping due to efficiency dropping because to close to max loads.
I mean the PSU is only around maybe nearly 2 months old now, it was a new one because the old one (same model) was faulty the fan controller would go nuts randomly and make very loud noises like a grinding sound.
So do I need a bigger PSU?
I thought 650W was fine for my setup giving me enough head room
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Here is a screenshot link for the Hardware Monitor including temps and voltages:
http://s21.postimg.org/408enp5x3/screee.png
Voltages look to be WAY under spec.
+12 is at 8.016
+5 is at 3.145
I am thinking this is the majority of the issue
Do you have a volt meter that you can measure voltages with directly off the PSU with it out of the PC?
All you have to do is disconnect ALL power cables from the PSU and put in a jumper between the green and any black wire on the big plug that feeds into the motherboard. With the switch on the PSU on it will turn on as soon as you install the jumper.
If you are getting close to these same numbers, the PSU is toast. If you get normal numbers, it is either to close to max and is voltage is dropping due to efficiency dropping because to close to max loads.
Also would it matter if it's plugged into a anti-surge extension socket, it's an extension socket which has around 5 sockets and 3 are taking up although only 2 are actually being used. I do have in my wall outlets 5 different sockets taken up would that affect anything?
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Here is a screenshot link for the Hardware Monitor including temps and voltages:
http://s21.postimg.org/408enp5x3/screee.png
Voltages look to be WAY under spec.
+12 is at 8.016
+5 is at 3.145
I am thinking this is the majority of the issue
Do you have a volt meter that you can measure voltages with directly off the PSU with it out of the PC?
All you have to do is disconnect ALL power cables from the PSU and put in a jumper between the green and any black wire on the big plug that feeds into the motherboard. With the switch on the PSU on it will turn on as soon as you install the jumper.
If you are getting close to these same numbers, the PSU is toast. If you get normal numbers, it is either to close to max and is voltage is dropping due to efficiency dropping because to close to max loads.
I mean the PSU is only around maybe nearly 2 months old now, it was a new one because the old one (same model) was faulty the fan controller would go nuts randomly and make very loud noises like a grinding sound.
So do I need a bigger PSU?
I thought 650W was fine for my setup giving me enough head room
That is why I am suggesting check it without anything plugged in. It could also be bad voltage regulation on the motherboard. Either way those voltages can't be in spec.
Here is a screenshot link for the Hardware Monitor including temps and voltages:
http://s21.postimg.org/408enp5x3/screee.png
Voltages look to be WAY under spec.
+12 is at 8.016
+5 is at 3.145
I am thinking this is the majority of the issue
Do you have a volt meter that you can measure voltages with directly off the PSU with it out of the PC?
All you have to do is disconnect ALL power cables from the PSU and put in a jumper between the green and any black wire on the big plug that feeds into the motherboard. With the switch on the PSU on it will turn on as soon as you install the jumper.
If you are getting close to these same numbers, the PSU is toast. If you get normal numbers, it is either to close to max and is voltage is dropping due to efficiency dropping because to close to max loads.
Also would it matter if it's plugged into a anti-surge extension socket, it's an extension socket which has around 5 sockets and 3 are taking up although only 2 are actually being used. I do have in my wall outlets 5 different sockets taken up would that affect anything?
I wouldn't think so. The PSU is going to convert AC to DC and should be cleaning up the signal anyway.
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All the voltages being off by 30% has to be way way out of spec. No wonder stuff is behaving wonky. In a properly functioning machine it shouldn’t ever get more than a few percent off.
I wonder if those numbers are accurate though. Can you test with a multimeter?
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All the voltages being off by 30% has to be way way out of spec. No wonder stuff is behaving wonky. In a properly functioning machine it shouldn’t ever get more than a few percent off.
I wonder if those numbers are accurate though. Can you test with a multimeter?
I will ask my parents if they have one, I'm not 100% sure we will but I may be in luck
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it's not about how many watts you have, just so you don't go and buy something extremely overkill, but rather the quality of the power supply - how stable power it can deliver etc (simplifying it here :p).
you should be fine with much less than 650w, as long as it is a good PSU.
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Those figures are WAY off what they should be, but I strongly suspect they're wrong. Many people have the same issue of voltages incorrectly reported and they seem to be somewhat similar to the ones you list, so it looks like the only way to see the actual values would be with a multimeter. The system wouldn't boot with 8v on the 12v lines.
And I was wrong about the 500W requirement, sorry, seems that 500W is the recommended minimum for your combination of CPU / GPU, so 650W still has some headroom. All the newer PSU's are switching to improve efficiency and include filtering and smoothing, so by the time the power is coming out the PSU it's been quite well conditioned. Quite often a faulty capacitor can cause problems, though. I have a Zalman 600W PSU that made one particular motherboard of mine really struggle to boot. Replaced a couple of capacitors with higher quality ones and hey presto, better than new :)
So I'm afraid we're not much closer to a solution yet, but I do think it has at least a little to do with regulation / smoothing / ripple / noise / interference on one of the lines.
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Those figures are WAY off what they should be, but I strongly suspect they're wrong. Many people have the same issue of voltages incorrectly reported and they seem to be somewhat similar to the ones you list, so it looks like the only way to see the actual values would be with a multimeter. The system wouldn't boot with 8v on the 12v lines.
And I was wrong about the 500W requirement, sorry, seems that 500W is the recommended minimum for your combination of CPU / GPU, so 650W still has some headroom. All the newer PSU's are switching to improve efficiency and include filtering and smoothing, so by the time the power is coming out the PSU it's been quite well conditioned. Quite often a faulty capacitor can cause problems, though. I have a Zalman 600W PSU that made one particular motherboard of mine really struggle to boot. Replaced a couple of capacitors with higher quality ones and hey presto, better than new :)
So I'm afraid we're not much closer to a solution yet, but I do think it has at least a little to do with regulation / smoothing / ripple / noise / interference on one of the lines.
yeah last night I launched speed fan and the 12v rail was displaying 12.20v and I also read that HW monitor is very unreliable as far as voltages go.
However the 3.3v rail is always set to 2.49 in Speedfan so I'm guessing that could be the line which is the problem, the rest seem on par.
Also I forgot to mention in my OP that mid way through this ordeal, maybe exactly a year ago my mice felt worse than they did now A LOT worse.
I remember one time that I think my PC either rebooted or my PC had crashed or something, but the PC kind of glitched and the next time I used the PC the mouse felt completely different?
So from some weird power glitch it actually changed how it felt and has stayed that way ever since, back before this happened the mice felt even slower and less precise.
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Hmmm I'm so confused ahaahha,
I unplugged my mouse around 3-4 times last night because of my PS/2 adapter didn't work so I gave up, now my mouse feels a lot better again for some reason.
I'm not bragging, but even when I have 85-95% accuracy in my mouse not even 100% I can destroy.
This images prove it's not placebo, just my natural aim etc.
It would just be nice to have 100% aim so I could let rip again :D :))
http://s17.postimg.org/obsav60r3/de_dust20003.jpg
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Hi everyone,
So i'm back in a way ahaha.
So i've just been using my PC the way it is lately, I am now nearly sure it's something to do with power not just how the mouse feels but my speed of the PC overall.
I did notice when I originally installed my new RAM ages ago (1-2 years) the PC was way faster and the new CPU.
Since this problem had occurred I notices the PC felt slower.
Now today I decided I would plug my PC into a wall socket, I used to have it on a anti power surge extension (which has 5 sockets on it).
I plugged it in this morning and my PC instantly booted a lot faster and everything has sped up?.
I do have my modem and router all plugged into the same area, I'm wondering whether the wall sockets are being drained too much by different units (monitors, modem, router)
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Sounds like a cheap power strip
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Usually computers behave weirdly when there are power issues. I've never, ever heard of one feeling slower because of power.
Could be a component or drive with intermittent problems that slows the OS due to wait states, theoretically exacerbated by power fluctuations. But I'd say it's a stretch.
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Hi everyone again,
So on this issue I bought another gaming PC which I am aiming to sell, at the time I thought it would be a good idea to test the rig and see whether or not it was just my PC that forced mouse movements to feel off.
I'm not 100% sure about it being slightly placebo, I notice a difference movements feel sharper; BUT it feels the same so I have completely wiped my PC from being the cause which is great news.
The only bad news is that it is either to do with my monitor, or worse the power leading to the computer isn't good enough.
So yeah the mouse still feels off, I can make movements it feels almost smoothed out. When playing CSGO trying to make large movements it feels as if I hit a barrier and the mouse slows when I hit a certain point
it's extremely weird.
I'm guessing it has to be the monitor but I don't know how the monitor is causing the issue as such, is it just picking up mouse input wrong on screen in correlation to the GPU?
I will try another monitor even a TV just to compare I'm hoping this should finally nail it down.