Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses

[to1ne]

"Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days."

So am I the only one still having trouble with double or missing keypresses?

Last week I received my 207 with brown switches. Ever since I am experiencing double and missing keypresses. There are a lot of keys suffering this issue (to name a few: a, w, d, t, n, m, p, Left Alt).

Also I've found this recent article someone mentioning key "doubling": http://www.anandtech.com/print/6819

I have contacted TE (twice) and hope to receive response soon. At the moment the keyboard is almost unusable.

[to1ne]

They sure know how to ship fast, but replying to email takes ages. Nearly a month now without reply.
This is starting to make me really pissed off.

[Con a la Bon]

The double presses probably started happening within the last few months. Seems quite random, but 'Space' and 'b' had it for a period of time, but jamming on it a bit 'fixed' them a bit.  Now though, some other keys will randomly double press (k, c, g, b, a few others I'm sure).

 I have a 105 MX-Red for reference.   

[MykB77]

I had a couple of random keys do this to me, i can't even remember which they were now.  They corrected and problem has not come back.  I will post if it comes up again.

[mygnu]

Hi guys I'm new to the forum. Recently got my TE. initially had issues with double/triple key-press, I am using blue O rings and it has improved a lot. Has anyone experienced the same?

[addwyn]

Truly Ergonomics have now provided the third generation of TECK's firmwares. It would be interesting to systematically clarify the firmware version used in your TE keyboard when these problems are recognized or resolved (because I noticed that the debouncing program is slightly different (better???) in firmware v3)...

[to1ne]

Cool, new firmware!
But no longer a version where Ctrl & Shift are swapped available?

[addwyn]

But no longer a version where Ctrl & Shift are swapped available?

if TE's firmware where Ctrl & Shift are reversed is not what you need, you can swap Ctrl & Shift yourself by hand or using  Yuri Khan's on-line firmware generator.

[sparhawk]

I just wanted to pipe in and mention that I see the same issues with my keyboard with no response or double-keypresses for about eight keys. This occurs at different frequencies depending on the key. e.g. every two to ten keystrokes. What's also interesting is that it's worse on one of two TECKs that I own, and also that it has gotten worse with time, especially when unused for a month. It's also getting better again with more frequent usage, although not perfect. What also might have helped is pressing hard on the faulty key, and wiggling a little. This makes it better, but does not fix it 100%.

This suggests to me that it's hardware problem. Also, I've tried updating my firmware to v3, but that didn't help. keyboard.co suggested briefly that it might be loose solder joints, but I'm not sure if this is the problem given the possible "fixes" above. I attempted to open the case, but there are recesses for screws under the sticker, and it's unclear to me whether removing the sticker would invalidate my warranty.

It's a real pity that this keyboard suffers from this problem, as it seems like a unique solution to RSI, and the best alternative out of similar keyboards.

=EDIT=
I have a 209 (Cherry Brown) model.

=EDIT2=
FWIW, I discovered that repeating keystrokes are called key chattering or contact bouncing. I'm not sure if that's what this is, given that sometimes keys don't work either. I've had a google for this topic, but haven't come across anything that also mentions non-registering keys.

[to1ne]

if TE's firmware where Ctrl & Shift are reversed is not what you need, you can swap Ctrl & Shift yourself by hand or using  Yuri Khan's on-line firmware generator.

Thanks, I totally did not see that on their site. Also the online generator is great.

[to1ne]

I finally wrote a review on the TECK.

[sparhawk]

I finally wrote a review on the TECK.

Thanks for the link, and thank you for to link the new FAQ in your review. I'm glad that Truly Ergonomic accept that this is a problem, although it certainly seems a lot more prevalent than other mechanical keyboards.

I should also mention that I'm not really seeing this problem any more. Oddly enough, I didn't experience it at all for the first few months, it then got very bad for a month, and now it's fine. What is odd is that I don't see it worse staggered for different keys. i.e. I would have expected common keys like "e" to pass through this progression earlier than uncommon keys like "F1".

==EDIT==
Also, I use xcape (on Linux) to allow held keys to act as modifiers, but send normal signals when pressed. Hence, Alt is mapped to Enter on my system.

[threshar]

I too am a victim of the dreaded key doubling syndrome.  For me, it is mostly E and T that are doing it. sometimes others will work.
Sometimes removing the keycap and putting it back on helps, sometimes it doesn't.  Sometimees it runs fine for a whilee, sometimes it doesn't. oh look, theere it goes.

I've emailed TECK a number of timese over the last few months with nothing but crickets coming back.  I useed to use a kinesis advantage. Liked that one but noticed I was streetching my fingers a lot (I never got fully used to where arrow keys were eeither)  and since my wrist problems were not improving I tried the teck.  I do like typing on it, but tthis doubling issue is making me go insane.

I didn't bother to correct any doubles so folks can see it in action. You'll notice periods of no doubling, and then it starts acting up.

[nomaded]

I also find that I sometimes get a bit of chatter with a few of the keys on this 209, but it's not very often, so I haven't contacted TECK about it.

This 209 was a replacement for an 109. That 109 had a worse problem, the 0 key would require a lot of force and accurate pressing of the middle of the keycap to work. But that was the only problem, so I stuck with it for a while. I think it took like 5 or 6 emails to TECK over about 6 months to get them to acknowledge my request and allowed me to ship it back as an RMA.

At this point, we have one 109 and one 209. They're both performing great, especially after being able to reprogram the keys.

[sparhawk]

Apparently the latest firmware (v3.14) solves this problem. Oddly enough, if you use custom firmware, then the downloaded file is named "TrulyErgonomic_v3_3.hex", so I'm not sure if these fixes have been incorporated. (I assume "v3_3" < "v3.14"?) I emailed them to ask if this were the case. I'm not sure why. I never received a reply (again).

Anyway, even without the new firmware, these problems disappeared for me after several months on my two 209s. It was a very frustrating time though, and was about 6 months to a year before it was totally sorted.

[router.exe]

i have sticky key syndrome every couple days with my 207 brown on win 8.1.  it only seems to happen with Fn + <Fkey> combos.  trying to turn the volume up one click turns it to 11, turn it down one click sets it to 0.

i'm going to try the firmware they have listed(3.16?) this weekend and see if it fixes it.

[sparhawk]

i have sticky key syndrome every couple days with my 207 brown on win 8.1.  it only seems to happen with Fn + <Fkey> combos.  trying to turn the volume up one click turns it to 11, turn it down one click sets it to 0.

Sticky keys are something different. The OP was referring to missing or double key presses. I can't seem to find the link any more, but the stuck volume key is a (different) known issue. I thought it was either on the official site or here?

FWIW I had it too, but not any more. I can't remember when it was fixed, but I'm running custom firmware. "v3_3" as per my previous post.

[router.exe]

i have sticky key syndrome every couple days with my 207 brown on win 8.1.  it only seems to happen with Fn + <Fkey> combos.  trying to turn the volume up one click turns it to 11, turn it down one click sets it to 0.

Sticky keys are something different. The OP was referring to missing or double key presses. I can't seem to find the link any more, but the stuck volume key is a (different) known issue. I thought it was either on the official site or here?

FWIW I had it too, but not any more. I can't remember when it was fixed, but I'm running custom firmware. "v3_3" as per my previous post.

i guess i was using sticky and double press terms interchangeably.

i too have installed the "custom" firmware for changing the map of my second delete key.  i did this in november or december i think.  i should try flashing again and see if something changes.

[sparhawk]

Aha, found the link.

Firmware created with the “Layout Designer” has a small bug. If you press Fn along other keys within the ”Fn” layer, like Fn+F12 (Volume Up), the key-code might continue repeating in your computer after you have released the key. We are working on a solution.

If this happens, unplug and plug in again your keyboard.

This only happens when you release the Fn key before you have released all other keys.
If you make sure to release the Fn key after you have released all other keys, the problem will not arise.

[threshar]

so after someone mentioned custom firmware that made me curious.  From the looks of it, if you use the custom firmware thing on the site you are getting a firmware based on 3.3 (guessing by the filename).  So I decided to try 3.16 (or was it 17) from the site.  I loaded it up and I haven't had any doubles yet. so we shall see. Not sure if it is the keyboard or something, but something feels slightly laggy. I mean ever so slightly.

[nomaded]

Aha, found the link.

Firmware created with the “Layout Designer” has a small bug. If you press Fn along other keys within the ”Fn” layer, like Fn+F12 (Volume Up), the key-code might continue repeating in your computer after you have released the key. We are working on a solution.

If this happens, unplug and plug in again your keyboard.

This only happens when you release the Fn key before you have released all other keys.
If you make sure to release the Fn key after you have released all other keys, the problem will not arise.

Looks like they were able to fix this bug. The custom layout designer puts out "v3_31" files now.

[sparhawk]

The custom layout designer puts out "v3_31" files now.

Good find. I suppose "v3_31" is better than "v3_3" (the previous version for custom firmware), but it still isn't consistent with the default firmware of "v3_16". Once again, I wish their communication was better! (Also, I still haven't received a reply from my email.)

[nomaded]

Good find. I suppose "v3_31" is better than "v3_3" (the previous version for custom firmware), but it still isn't consistent with the default firmware of "v3_16". Once again, I wish their communication was better! (Also, I still haven't received a reply from my email.)

I don't disagree. I just check back once in a while to see if anything has changed.

[Azteca]

v3_16 is the default firmware, considers DIP 1-4, fixes the double key presses 

v3_31 is from the layout designer, only considers DIP 2, your own custom layout and different layers, but it may produce double key presses 

if you want to help fix the double key presses from the custom firmware, yurivkhan needs guineapigs testers
https://github.com/yurivkhan/teck/issues/7 go there and tell you also have double key issues and would like to help 

[sparhawk]

Thanks for the clarification, Azteca. My double-key issues have stopped by themselves, otherwise I'd offer my services.

(Also, does anyone know what the difference is between Yuri Khan's firmware updater and the official one? I understand that the latter is derived from the former, and I presume it is then further modified in a closed-source fashion? I've been a bit reticent to use Yuri's because I was unsure if it invalidated warranty.)

[sparhawk]

Okay, so the new version of TECK's layout designer has a banner that says:

New Firmware (v3_40) created by this Layout Designer solves the Fn+Vol bug as well as the double letters issue.

Also, a slight bump for this part:

Also, does anyone know what the difference is between Yuri Khan's firmware updater and the official one? I understand that the latter is derived from the former, and I presume it is then further modified in a closed-source fashion? I've been a bit reticent to use Yuri's because I was unsure if it invalidated warranty.

[QuadGMoto]

Also, does anyone know what the difference is between Yuri Khan's firmware updater and the official one? I understand that the latter is derived from the former, and I presume it is then further modified in a closed-source fashion? I've been a bit reticent to use Yuri's because I was unsure if it invalidated warranty.

I had read up on Yuri's work at github before I went back to TE's layout designer and read there. Apparently the Layout Designer on TE's web site is Yuri's work. There's even a credit at the bottom:

Layout Designer based on the configurator by Yuri Khan

And in looking up the credit, I just noticed that the Custom Layout Designer now produces version 3_40 firmware.

[sparhawk]

I had read up on Yuri's work at github before I went back to TE's layout designer and read there. Apparently the Layout Designer on TE's web site is Yuri's work. There's even a credit at the bottom:

Layout Designer based on the configurator by Yuri Khan

Right, so the official layout designer is "based" on his work. So my question still stands: "I presume it is then further modified in a closed-source fashion?" In fact, I can see that Yuri is still working out how to fix the bounce issue, whereas the official layout designer has supposedly fixed it, so I'm not sure if they added some new (closed) code, or if they went with some of Yuri's preliminary settings.

And in looking up the credit, I just noticed that the Custom Layout Designer now produces version 3_40 firmware.

Yep, that was at the top of my last post.

[clickclack123]

/necro thread

I bought a TECK a month ago (227-wide alt with browns), and I'm getting a fair few key double presses, but mostly sometimes some keys don't register at all. It's weird because usually it's pretty bad first thing in the morning when I get into work (usually makes me have to retype my username/password at least once), but then it seems to improve over the course of the day.

What's really annoying is when you're typing, it doesn't register a key, then you backspace to remove whatever you typed after, then it does a double-press!! It's like a bloody practical joke. Really ruins my flow when trying to think. I breathe a little sigh of relief every day when I get home to my ergodox which works properly.

Every time it happens with a key, I bring up a notepad window and hit the offending key about 100 times (my coworker calls me "the woodpecker"), and this seems to fix that key for a while. Hardly good for avoiding RSI as TE claims though!! 

Some keys seem to do it much more frequently than others, but it's never predictable. Very irritating.

I'm using the 3.40 firmware which supposedly fixes the double press/missed press issues, but hasn't worked for me.

I did see 4.00 firmware mentioned somewhere on their site but I use a custom layout so couldn't find a way to get my layout using 4.00 fw as the configurator generates v3.40.

It does seem a bit better than the first week though, it was almost unusable for the first week but I persevered because of TE's claims that switches need breaking in. I've had a few Cherry MX boards now though, and never have I experienced any issues like these.

It's hard for me to send the board back as I bought it "new" from ebay in Australia from a private seller, and from reading these threads, Truly Ergonomic support sounds pretty average anyway.

I'm still holding out hope that they really do fix the firmware, or my keys finally "break in". A month of fulltime work is a lot of breaking in though...

Pretty disappointing for a $200 keyboard really. Even the POS $15 hp rubber dome boards at my work manage to register all the presses without getting doubles. I just think that probably TE doesn't know how to code debouncing properly (not saying it's easy, just saying they can't do it).

Also it's 6KRO, not "Full N‑key rollover" as they claim on their site. This is a bit of an issue for me because I am learning Plover Stenography software.

I do like the layout, but with these issues, I just can't recommend this keyboard. What good is a keyboard that doesn't type properly??

Just leaving this here for anyone who is thinking about buying one of these. I would certainly think twice before I bought one. At times I've felt like throwing this one out the window!! Luckily for this one, the windows are locked shut at my work...

[sparhawk]

I bought two keyboards 1.5 years ago, and I'm still having problems. After a few months, both had "broken in". However, after coming back to work after a year off, I found that the work keyboard had reverted to its horrible broken state. I would press the broken keys literally 1000 times, and it would only make an incremental difference.

Having said that, it appears to have restabilised after another week or so. It's a great keyboard when it works, but as you say, it's a horrible horrible beast to start with. There are some commands that just shouldn't be mistyped. Rechecking every word slowed me down tenfold, so I absolutely feel your pain.

I did bring some D5 Deoxit to work, but I was unsure as to whether this would make the problem worse or not. Fortunately it fixed itself…

EDIT: Oh and I paid ~A$350 each for the keyboard + shipping to Australia from The Keyboard Company.

[Azteca]

I bought a TECK a month ago (227-wide alt with browns)

207 uses Cherry MX Brown
227 uses Kailh MX-Compatible Brown
remove a keycap and verify the switches you really have.

... bought it "new" from ebay in Australia from a private seller...

you could have bought a "new lemon" from eBay; nobody sells these boards "new" outside their website and their distributors.

Also it's 6KRO, not "Full N‑key rollover" as they claim on their site

"The Truly Ergonomic Keyboard incorporates Full N‑key rollover capability (6‑key rollover plus modifiers restricted by USB specifications)."

"Full N‑key rollover (NKRO). Also known as anti‑ghosting; each keypress is correctly detected regardless of how many other keys (up to 6 plus modifiers) are being pressed at the same time."

nobody reads the FAQ anymore

I breathe a little sigh of relief every day when I get home to my ergodox which works properly.

another ErgoDox troller 

sell the TE "new" on eBay and get another ErgoDox for your office if you really love it.

firmware 3.4 made by Yuri Khan works flawlessly - you can even increase the debouncing up to 15ms to decrease double-keys, so the problem is not the firmware, the problem is faulty cherry switches.

if you really have an ErgoDox, then you know how to solder: open the TrulyErgonomic, exchange the faulty switches, and stop whining like a baby troller.

[sparhawk]

you could have bought a "new lemon" from eBay; nobody sells these boards "new" outside their website and their distributors.

...

firmware 3.4 made by Yuri Khan works flawlessly - you can even increase the debouncing up to 15ms to decrease double-keys, so the problem is not the firmware, the problem is faulty cherry switches.

if you really have an ErgoDox, then you know how to solder: open the TrulyErgonomic, exchange the faulty switches, and stop whining like a baby troller.

I agree that clickclack123 may have bought a used keyboard, but I think you are being a little too aggressive with much of your post.

As I mention above, I have had similar problems, while running the latest firmware from the manufacturer's site. I don't think it's just faulty switches, as the keys settle down after a while.

To call someone a baby troller because they disagree with you, or even if you think they are ignorant, is unnecessary and rude.

[Azteca]

I don't think it's just faulty switches, as the keys settle down after a while.

faulty switches get better after using them, but tend to return being faulty in most cases.

you both can try adding a few drops of isopropyl alcohol directly into faulty switches, then press them a lot; it tends to help and can last a few weeks or forever.

To call someone a baby troller because they disagree with you, or even if you think they are ignorant, is unnecessary and rude.

every time someone is whining like a baby troller conveniently loves the ErgoDox and hates the TE (long story).

[clickclack123]

I bought a TECK a month ago (227-wide alt with browns)

207 uses Cherry MX Brown
227 uses Kailh MX-Compatible Brown
remove a keycap and verify the switches you really have.

I'll check on Monday at work. It was listed as TECK-8008-N-104-US if that makes a difference.

... bought it "new" from ebay in Australia from a private seller...

you could have bought a "new lemon" from eBay; nobody sells these boards "new" outside their website and their distributors.

I probably did. But it certainly looked new. Anyway, why are there "new lemons" of these anyway? This is not something I've ever heard about having to worry about with any other keyboard. I knew I was taking a bit of a chance when I bought it.

Also it's 6KRO, not "Full N‑key rollover" as they claim on their site

"The Truly Ergonomic Keyboard incorporates Full N‑key rollover capability (6‑key rollover plus modifiers restricted by USB specifications)."

"Full N‑key rollover (NKRO). Also known as anti‑ghosting; each keypress is correctly detected regardless of how many other keys (up to 6 plus modifiers) are being pressed at the same time."

nobody reads the FAQ anymore

I read the FAQ before I bought it. I decided to buy it anyway. But just redefining something doesn't make it true. NKRO!=6KRO, despite what TE (and you?) say.

I breathe a little sigh of relief every day when I get home to my ergodox which works properly.

another ErgoDox troller 

sell the TE "new" on eBay and get another ErgoDox for your office if you really love it.

I would love to, but the Ergodox is a bit too out there for my office. I'd have to answer questions about it all the time. I'd rather if I could find some way to make the keyboard that I've already paid for work.

Also, maybe you are, but I'm not the kind of ******* who would sell it faulty without telling the buyer.

firmware 3.4 made by Yuri Khan works flawlessly - you can even increase the debouncing up to 15ms to decrease double-keys, so the problem is not the firmware, the problem is faulty cherry switches.

Works flawlessly for you maybe. But I'm not the only one who's had these problems.

It also said that if you increase the debounce time, then keypresses will be missed. Mostly my problem is missing presses, then maybe 1/5 of the time they double-press.

if you really have an ErgoDox, then you know how to solder: open the TrulyErgonomic, exchange the faulty switches, and stop whining like a baby troller.

How rude! I don't like your tone. Troller? And what, persay, would I be trolling for? Always amazes me how people can get so worked up over the internet. Maybe they were never hugged as a child.

I've put up pictures of my ErgoDox on gh, which I assure you I really have. I'm just stating my experience.

I have maybe 10 switches that are faulty sometimes. At some point you have to say there's a design fault there, when 10% of the switches are faulty! That makes me more inclined to believe it's a hardware/firmware issue. I'm not very enthused to spend what will inevitably be hours fixing something with a flawed design, with the chance that all that work won't even fix the issue.

I agree that clickclack123 may have bought a used keyboard, but I think you are being a little too aggressive with much of your post.

As I mention above, I have had similar problems, while running the latest firmware from the manufacturer's site. I don't think it's just faulty switches, as the keys settle down after a while.

To call someone a baby troller because they disagree with you, or even if you think they are ignorant, is unnecessary and rude.

Thanks sparhawk.

[hoggy]

So who makes these 'new lemons' then?

[hoggy]

Sparhawk, ClickClack123, I hope you get your issues sorted. 

It sounds like TE could drastically improve their boards by adopting a phantom style plate.  It would be much nicer for a member here to simply say, buy a replacement switch from here, pry the switch out in the same way as in this video, and pop in the innards of the replacement switch... 

[clickclack123]

Sparhawk, ClickClack123, I hope you get your issues sorted. 

It sounds like TE could drastically improve their boards by adopting a phantom style plate.  It would be much nicer for a member here to simply say, buy a replacement switch from here, pry the switch out in the same way as in this video, and pop in the innards of the replacement switch...

It's Azteca who has a problem, not sparhawk.

edit: oh, you meant our issues with our keyboards. Thanks.

Yes it would be good if they had a plate with the extra cutouts, but even better if they shipped with working switches. It's a QC issue really when these problems exist in new boards.

[clickclack123]

I bought a TECK a month ago (227-wide alt with browns)

207 uses Cherry MX Brown
227 uses Kailh MX-Compatible Brown
remove a keycap and verify the switches you really have.

Looks like Cherry MX Brown.

[Azteca]

TECK-8008-N-104-US

model 104 is the first generation for this board from 2010; uses Cherry MX - "Cherry logo" shows on the switch.

newer switches say Kailh

why are there "new lemons" of these

"lemon product": a sarcasm way to mention that the product is faulty. Any product can have its “lemons”, which mean that even the best most precise and expensive product can be defective or become faulty after some use. NO product no matter the tolerance levels can become defective. Buying a lemon is usually due to lack of information.

I read the FAQ before I bought it. I decided to buy it anyway. But just redefining something doesn't make it true. NKRO!=6KRO, despite what TE (and you?) say.

"Full N‑key rollover capability": means the product is capable of NKRO.
6‑key rollover plus modifiers IS restricted by USB specifications. If USB changes, then the TE would become NKRO.

Other keyboards that claim NKRO is because they are fooling the OS into thinking they are multiple keyboards at the same time, which in turn allows more the 6KRO, but it is only good for gaming.
Most USB-NKRO keyboards are not good (nor required) for normal typing because when you type fast with a fake NKRO the letters can show in a different order as typed due to the USB timings. So if you type 1234, it can show as 3412 - ok for gaming but bad for typing.

Firmware works flawlessly for you maybe. But I'm not the only one who's had these problems.

If you have newest firmware and have problems, then the problem is faulty switches.

adding a few drops of isopropyl alcohol directly into faulty switches, then press them a lot, tends to help and can last a few weeks or forever.

I have maybe 10 switches that are faulty sometimes. At some point you have to say there's a design fault there, when 10% of the switches are faulty! That makes me more inclined to believe it's a hardware/firmware issue. I'm not very enthused to spend what will inevitably be hours fixing something with a flawed design, with the chance that all that work won't even fix the issue.

If your board was manufactured with faulty keyswitches, all of them can be faulty. This does not make the product a bad design or a bad manufacturing issue, the problem is just faulty switches.

Replace the switches and you would have a great board design that is reliable.

[davkol]

I have maybe 10 switches that are faulty sometimes. At some point you have to say there's a design fault there, when 10% of the switches are faulty! That makes me more inclined to believe it's a hardware/firmware issue. I'm not very enthused to spend what will inevitably be hours fixing something with a flawed design, with the chance that all that work won't even fix the issue.

If your board was manufactured with faulty keyswitches, all of them can be faulty. This does not make the product a bad design or a bad manufacturing issue, the problem is just faulty switches.

Replace the switches and you would have a great board design that is reliable.

There's no quality control?

I find it amusing that I've never seen so many complaints about malfunctioning keys on any particular keyboard other than Truly Ergonomic and Noppoo Choc Mini.

[Architect]

The first batch of TE's unfortunately had a bad batch of keys. They also had firmware issues. Both have been fixed looong since. Actually the original batch keys fixed themselves with use. TE gave rebates and took them back and such, but if you gave the switches half a chance they fixed themselves.

I've got about 10 TE's of various vintages new and old for all my systems and all of them have no problems. TE made a mistake when they started up by taking pre-orders, it built up some negative feelings, and of course then they suffered all the usual first release issues most hardware companies have.

[tufty]

"I don't have a problem with mine" is no help to those who do have problems with theirs.

[qihqi]

Maybe try flash a different firmware with lower debouncing time? (https://www.trulyergonomic.com/store/layout-designer--configurator--reprogrammable--truly-ergonomic-mechanical-keyboard/)

[clickclack123]

Maybe try flash a different firmware with lower debouncing time? (https://www.trulyergonomic.com/store/layout-designer--configurator--reprogrammable--truly-ergonomic-mechanical-keyboard/)

I flashed one this morning with 8ms debouncing. I'm still getting both missed presses and double presses.

It's maybe slightly better but hard to tell. If anything, I feel like I'm seeing slightly less missed presses but more double presses, which is the opposite of what I would have thought would happen when the debounce time is lengthened.

Might as well try a lower debounce time just for the hell of it.

[Architect]

"I don't have a problem with mine" is no help to those who do have problems with theirs.

Neither is posts just complaining about other posts

Actually I'd say it is useful, it's trying to establish a baseline for whether it's a common or uncommon problem. If uncommon then perhaps it's due to misconfiguring, incorrect use, etc. which might warrant investigation (of course it could just be a problem with those switches he has too.)

[tufty]

"I don't have a problem with mine" is no help to those who do have problems with theirs.

Neither is posts just complaining about other posts

Actually I'd say it is useful, it's trying to establish a baseline for whether it's a common or uncommon problem. If uncommon then perhaps it's due to misconfiguring, incorrect use, etc. which might warrant investigation (of course it could just be a problem with those switches he has too.)

Or you could read clickclack123s posts to see that they *have* done the relevant homework, etc.

What makes me *very* suspicious is TE claiming that keyswitches somehow need "breaking in".

It is not uncommon that some Mechanical keyswitches require to "break-in" before working properly; this means that the switch itself requires to be pressed several times before it performs properly.

Actually, it is *very* uncommon.  In 45 years of IT work, most of which has been done using mechanical keyboards, I have *never* come across a keyswitch that needed "breaking in".  Broken keyswitches, yes.  Dirty keyswitches, yes.  But "breaking in"? That's "audiophool" levels of "assuming your customer is a ****ing idiot".  If your keyswitch registers twice, it's not an issue with the switch, it's that your firmware (or, in the case of hardware debouncing, hardware) is broken.  If it doesn't register at all, either the switch is broken, or, again, your firmware / hardware is broken.

Occam's razor, as usual, cuts through the bull****.  If Cherry keyswitches needed breaking in, and some percentage, no matter how small, misbehaved unless they had been broken in, *every* keyboard using Cherry keyswitches would be exhibiting this issue to some extent, with roughly the same percentage of problems.  Is that the case?  No, it's not, the problem is elsewhere.

[jacobolus]

If your keyswitch registers twice, it's not an issue with the switch, it's that your firmware (or, in the case of hardware debouncing, hardware) is broken.

The design of the switch absolutely plays into such double-actuations. If the electrical contact is poor, extra actuations are much more likely, given whatever arbitrary debounce routine.

Since these are standard Cherry MX switches though, I agree it’s quite unlikely to be a problem with the switches.

[tufty]

If your keyswitch registers twice, it's not an issue with the switch, it's that your firmware (or, in the case of hardware debouncing, hardware) is broken.

The design of the switch absolutely plays into such double-actuations. If the electrical contact is poor, extra actuations are much more likely, given whatever arbitrary debounce routine.

Since these are standard Cherry MX switches though, I agree it’s quite unlikely to be a problem with the switches.

I'd go further, actually.  I'm almost certain that it's  firmware issue, and as such it's likely a problem with 100% of TECKs, just that it's only seen by a certain percentage of users, due to the way they type. 

As an example, I'm known to break keyboards.  My typing causes double keypresses on the (execrable) Apple A1048 "white" keyboard, and missed keypresses on my X220's internal scissor switch board.  Both of these are "OK" for my wife.  I was the only one seeing missed keypresses on the M0116 equipped with hasu's converter; that turned out to be an obscure bug, but if I hadn't known the board was "good" with a different converter, it would have been easy to put it down to a broken 'board. Again, for my wife, typing on the board was OK.  Even my Tactile Pro drops keypresses (very) occasionally for me.  The 1048 is a rubber dome POS, so it doesn't really count, but there is definitely something about my typing, especially when I first hit the keyboard.  Mainly, I suspect, that I'm fast-ish, and I have a light touch.  It's odd that the 1048 gives me double keypresses, and the others are / were drops.  That said, debouncing a rubber dome is a different kettle of fish to doing the same on a quality mechanical switch.

Now, I find that accuracy with any of the "misbehaving" boards above gets better the longer I'm typing.  I strongly suspect that this is down to  my typing getting slower and less "controlled" as the day goes on, and, quite possibly, due to subconciously adjusting the way I type to the board I'm using.

[Azteca]

if the switches work after some usage, then it is definitely not the firmware.

newest firmware debouncing works flawlessly.

"break-in" is recommended only when the switches misbehave, in case the switch is filthy; nobody is saying is recommended for "every" TE board.

if the key doubles or does nothing, upgrade the firmware;
if continues to fail, clean the keyboard/switch with isopropyl alcohol;
if still fails then replace the switch.

[jacobolus]

if the switches work after some usage, then it is definitely not the firmware.

"break-in" is recommended only when the switches misbehave, in case the switch is filthy; nobody is saying is recommended for "every" TE board.

Who recommends this? I have never heard anyone else recommend that “breaking in” a broken switch will fix it. That seems unlikely. (I have heard people advocate “breaking in” switches to wear down some of the surface imperfections on the plastic of the slider/housing, to improve the feeling of scratchy, frictiony switches. That’s a totally different issue though.)

MX switches are for the most part known to be reliable. If there’s one faulty switch the keyboard should be RMA’d or the switch replaced. If there are a whole bunch of faulty switches, then perhaps Truly Ergonomic bought a bad batch of switches from some disreputable source? That still sounds pretty unlikely. A brand new switch is not in general going to be “filthy”.

More plausible explanations: sloppy soldering from a cheap assembly process, hardware problems with the microcontroller, badly designed/implemented firmware.