Author Topic: [IC] Small rotary-encoder-only board  (Read 11891 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline donutcat

  • * Vendor
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1185
  • Location: Shelby, NC
  • I have ideas. Sometimes they're even good ideas.
    • Donut Cables
[IC] Small rotary-encoder-only board
« on: Fri, 20 March 2020, 05:22:24 »
Keeping this sweet and simple for the time being so that this has room to be flexible in how I choose to pursue it.


https://imgur.com/a/9LnSZaP

This is a little nine-encoder project that you may have seen floating around, with a build album link included. This one is hand-wired to a ProMicro as a test piece running off QMK, and is using a printed case and knobs. My main goal right now is seeing if people are interested in a small, budget-oriented, encoder-only project board as just something nifty to have. I'd also like to hear suggestions to what you personally might want out of a little board like this

Offline riterdando

  • Posts: 51
  • Location: Germany
Re: [IC] Small rotary-encoder-only board
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 21 March 2020, 15:53:32 »
Interesting project. I would like to have a set of rotary encoders for various settings I use quit often.
If it ist not too expensive I will buy it.

Are the encoders just usable with rotating or can you press them?


Gesendet von iPad mit Tapatalk

Offline donutcat

  • * Vendor
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1185
  • Location: Shelby, NC
  • I have ideas. Sometimes they're even good ideas.
    • Donut Cables
Re: [IC] Small rotary-encoder-only board
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 21 March 2020, 17:54:43 »
Interesting project. I would like to have a set of rotary encoders for various settings I use quit often.
If it ist not too expensive I will buy it.

Are the encoders just usable with rotating or can you press them?


Gesendet von iPad mit Tapatalk

These here all have a pushbutton built into them. As I'm using them I've got them setup with commands for each direction, a push command, and a long push command, all via QMK.

Offline growler

  • Posts: 246
Re: [IC] Small rotary-encoder-only board
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 22 March 2020, 05:53:36 »
Other than volume, and brightness, what do you use them for, just out of interest?
I can see for musoc/video production a specific use case, but am sure there are others that are more imaginary!

growler

Don't just stare at it ...

Offline eriatilox

  • Posts: 11
Re: [IC] Small rotary-encoder-only board
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 22 March 2020, 06:06:16 »
Other than volume, and brightness, what do you use them for, just out of interest?
I can see for musoc/video production a specific use case, but am sure there are others that are more imaginary!

growler
I use them to switch between windows/tabs.

Sent from my Mi MIX 3 using Tapatalk


Offline x86ect

  • Posts: 70
Re: [IC] Small rotary-encoder-only board
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 22 March 2020, 08:12:48 »
Yes!

Offline donutcat

  • * Vendor
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1185
  • Location: Shelby, NC
  • I have ideas. Sometimes they're even good ideas.
    • Donut Cables
Re: [IC] Small rotary-encoder-only board
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 23 March 2020, 18:40:54 »
Other than volume, and brightness, what do you use them for, just out of interest?
I can see for musoc/video production a specific use case, but am sure there are others that are more imaginary!

growler

A little copy-paste here from where I previously talked about it:


"I'm just using AHK and [NirCmd](https://nircmd.nirsoft.net/) with a relatively simple script that's just running a nircmd function when it receives a keypress.



The "changeapp(or sys)volume commands are changing volume in 2.5% increments, muteapp(sys)volume is toggling mute on/off, and setapp(sys)volume sets volume to 50% for when I want to re-reference them. All the stated keypresses are "wrapped" inside a F24 keypress so that AHK can suppress the presses from being picked up by other running apps. This functionality is borrowed and adapted from Taran of LTT and his scripts at https://github.com/DonutCables/2nd-keyboard/tree/master/HASU_USB.

Eventually I'll be moving to using AHK's "hotstring" functionality and sending probably 20 character strings that will include info on what board, switch position, and layer the press was sent from in that identifying string. It's gonna be super overkill, but I'm trying to setup my personal use case to be able to handle expansion in the future to utilizing stuff like a ScrabblePad as a function board while not worrying about running out of easily accessible addressing for my function usage.

I know lots of people won't want to or can't work with AHK and another app, so that's the benefit of QMK giving as many options for assigning commands as you can work with."

Offline growler

  • Posts: 246
Re: [IC] Small rotary-encoder-only board
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 23 March 2020, 19:13:41 »
Comprehensive, maybe that's the word I'd use!

Defo overkill for me, but am still intrigued, maybe I can think of something.

growler

Don't just stare at it ...

Offline donutcat

  • * Vendor
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1185
  • Location: Shelby, NC
  • I have ideas. Sometimes they're even good ideas.
    • Donut Cables
Re: [IC] Small rotary-encoder-only board
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 21 November 2020, 14:56:40 »


Been getting a little more work done up on this project lately, just needing the motivation to poke at it after hitting a bit of a wall on it. Hoping to get some proto PCBs soon that'll allow me testing with a few diode configs to see if that helps the intermittent crosstalk I was getting in previous tests.

Also would appreciate some feedback ala https://www.strawpoll.me/33187102

Offline donutcat

  • * Vendor
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1185
  • Location: Shelby, NC
  • I have ideas. Sometimes they're even good ideas.
    • Donut Cables
Re: [IC] Small rotary-encoder-only board
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 01 December 2020, 19:21:39 »


Proto PCBs received, gonna get to do some testing for a couple different things I'm looking into on these before my next revisions happen. A few of these are extra since the minimum I could order is 5, so if you're looking to snag one hit me up and I'll get back to you once I make sure they're completely functional.

Offline donutcat

  • * Vendor
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1185
  • Location: Shelby, NC
  • I have ideas. Sometimes they're even good ideas.
    • Donut Cables
Re: [IC] Small rotary-encoder-only board
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 02 December 2020, 19:51:03 »


Good news, the boards work! I managed to get silkscreen backwards for one of the diodes, but no biggie there. Gonna order another pack of encoders so I can fill out the board and do some testing with debounce circuits in case that helps with some of the other downsides to the matrix layout. I'm playing with case design stuff including SLA considerations, and planning to look more at Bourns encoders for my future needs, including this eventual GB, as I can find the models I like much easier than Alps.

Offline donutcat

  • * Vendor
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1185
  • Location: Shelby, NC
  • I have ideas. Sometimes they're even good ideas.
    • Donut Cables
Re: [IC] Small rotary-encoder-only board
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 09 December 2020, 16:56:06 »
Couple more small updates via pictures:



Current build vs previous build

Far as I can tell my PCB behaves as I expected it to, but nothing more. This is good in that my transcription from handwire didn't introduce any weirdness. This means I can focus on features now over any troubleshooting.

What's next:
 - Case design: The original case won't fit the PCB or discrete controller setup, so obvs I'll be needing to work on that I'd also like an improved bottom retention piece since my previous one was functional but lackluster. I'm also exploring options for doing the cases via SLA to look extra cool, like so:


 - Small version: One of my original ideas was having "breakaway" portions of the board so people who didn't need 9 encoders could go down to a configuration of 6 or 4 with a smaller footprint, but keep the same board design for that volume efficiency. I'm still onboard(hah) to try this, but also trying to make it so the PCB edges after doing so aren't scuffed af with potential clear cases.

 - Bourns encoders: Alps may be what everyone's more familiar with, but they're also a pain and slightly pricey to source. Meanwhile I was introduced to the fact that Bourns' datasheet actually makes it super easy to nail down the exact model of encoder you want and *then* you can actually find them available for a decent price. When this hit's GB these will be what I'm offering alongside the other components.

 - Other fancy bits: Obvious the design of encoders having a large bit of casing under the plate surface leaves a lot of room inside of the case, so I'm always looking at bits to fill that if. If anyone has any suggestions for stuff to put in here like OLEDs or such, hit me up.

Offline donutcat

  • * Vendor
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1185
  • Location: Shelby, NC
  • I have ideas. Sometimes they're even good ideas.
    • Donut Cables
Re: [IC] Small rotary-encoder-only board
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 27 June 2021, 09:11:53 »
So, it's update time again and it's a pretty good one.


This is one of the proto PCBs I previously had produced, though you'll notice I've a fair deal of jank wiring hanging out on top of it now.

Through the assistance of the awesome @xyz over on the QMK wiki and their marvelous help with QMK encoder code, essentially every problem that previously existed with the encoder wiring is gone. No more ghosting when using multiple at once, and no more having an entire row/column locked because one is stuck between detents. And I was fortunate enough to be able to test for myself one a current PCB instead of needing to run a batch.

So what now?

Step 1: Redo my schematic to account for the new wiring layout needed for the updated encoder handling functionality.
This I've already got down and done.

Step 2: Embrace Kicad 5.99 and sick themes

Obviously having a stylish theme is crucial to the process. Also new features are so worth it. Also I've just noticed my PCB isn't centered in my sheet, I will need to fix that immediately.

Step 3: Finish PCB design for next proto orders.
I'm hoping to have this done soon as I'd like to have protos on hand to gather feedback at an upcoming (vaccinated)meetup or two. Right now the main thing that I'll need to test for with the proto PCBs will be new case fitment and getting the breakaway portions to, well, breakaway in a nice manner. Also some nifty silkscreen to take up some of that empty space is probably on the todo.

Step 4: Feature finalization then setup component sources
Yeah that's it, we're that close. Just to recap on features as they sit right now:

 - ProMicro or ProMicro-Compatible controller.
If you have a particular ProMicro replacement you like to use, it'll work for this so long as it's pin-compatible/drop-in replacement.
Controller choice affects firmware compatibility. Some available ProMicro replacements don't run QMK because of the chips used.

 - 3D printed case and knobs/wheels.
Right now the plan is still FDM PLA for both of these as that's what I have access to.
Case design will be similar to the proto in my earlier pics and the renders I've posted, wheel/knob design will have a few custom options including what you see in my earlier pics.
SLA isn't *completely* out of the question, but as I don't have access to a machine currently it'd take a lot of interest and effort to make it available.

 - Up to 9x EC11 rotary encoders.
The plan is to use Bourns PEC11R series encoders in the kit, exact variant to be determined
Default layout is a 3x3 matrix, but the PCB will be snappable in two steps to move to either a 3x2 or 2x2 config.
Case variants will be available for "snapdown" configurations.

 - Breakout headers for SPI, I2C, and digital RGB connections.
Feeling adventurous and can't leave well enough alone? I made it easy to throw even more features on here if you so choose.
Part of the RGB connection is a solder jumper for power selection. This allows using the RAW pin for 5v access if you're using a 3.3Vout controller. I'll probably also add one each for SPI/I2C.

 - QMK firmware compatible
Yes this is basically the free space on the keeb featureset bingo card, but still worth saying. You use a QMK compatible controller and it'll run QMK, funny how that works.
The encoder matrix code is still experimental and not part of main, but the plan right now is I want to make it compile the modded code at the board/keymap level in case it doesn't get pulled to main before the board is available.


Right now I still have a smidge more feedback I'd like to get:

 - Board color prefs: Green PCBs are plain, what does popular opinion say the best color is?

 - SLA case option: How many would actually be interested in this over FDM? Note that the super clear rendition above is likely super unrealistic without a super fancy process to go with it.

 - ProMicro option for the kit: If there's enough interest I could see about hitting up a vendor that regularly has them about some bulk pricing for the GB, but tbh I expect that a lot of people would already have some on hand or be using a replacement.

 - Case/knob/wheel ideas: Thanks to the procedural nature of printing, there's a lot of room for customization and fancification in designs. Have any ideas you'd like to see integrated in the parts for this board?


Bit of a side note, I'm also doing some experimenting concerning socketing options for dev boards, and whatever tidbits I pull away from that is likely to be at least partially applied to this board. If you've got any feelings/info on that topic, just throw it my way.

As usual, always happy to get feedback and info from anyone willing to share.

Offline x86ect

  • Posts: 70
Re: [IC] Small rotary-encoder-only board
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 28 June 2021, 12:53:15 »
The plan is to use Bourns PEC11R series encoders in the kit, exact variant to be determined

How "strong" are the detents for these encoders?

Offline TheWonderBubble

  • Posts: 91
Re: [IC] Small rotary-encoder-only board
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 28 June 2021, 14:04:08 »
Absolutely interested. At this point I'm just trying to collect rotaries for the meme, because someone on reddit asked why I'd want BOTH encoders on a sofle, so now I'm intending on those, a numpad with 1-2, still looking for a macro pad with another 1-2, and then adding 9 more in with this would just be a chef's kiss moment.  :D I don't even know what I'd do with 12-15 rotary encoders, it'd just be hilarious.
Shhhhh...my wallet doesn't know I'm here.


Offline donutcat

  • * Vendor
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1185
  • Location: Shelby, NC
  • I have ideas. Sometimes they're even good ideas.
    • Donut Cables
Re: [IC] Small rotary-encoder-only board
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 28 June 2021, 23:36:59 »
How "strong" are the detents for these encoders?

So from the datasheets it seems like they're fairly close to the "normal" Alps versions that tend to be used, don't really have a good way to compare other'n that.

I don't even know what I'd do with 12-15 rotary encoders, it'd just be hilarious.

Good news is, I'm aiming for a software solution that should answer that with "anything you want".


Offline fflux

  • Posts: 7
Re: [IC] Small rotary-encoder-only board
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 29 June 2021, 02:41:32 »
the rotary encoder hype seems to be getting out of hand lol

still keeping an eye on this either way

Offline donutcat

  • * Vendor
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1185
  • Location: Shelby, NC
  • I have ideas. Sometimes they're even good ideas.
    • Donut Cables
Re: [IC] Small rotary-encoder-only board
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 08 July 2021, 09:19:25 »
Update time!





I'm a little behind on this week's work from dealing with my second dose, but so far I've been able to test the snap-off part of the PCB and it worked as nice as I was hoping it would. I'll get to throw one together for full testing in the next few days, but until then take a peek at the pics and see if you can notice some other nifty tidbits I've in

Offline donutcat

  • * Vendor
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1185
  • Location: Shelby, NC
  • I have ideas. Sometimes they're even good ideas.
    • Donut Cables
Re: [IC] Small rotary-encoder-only board
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 10 July 2021, 22:17:56 »

It works.

Offline donutcat

  • * Vendor
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1185
  • Location: Shelby, NC
  • I have ideas. Sometimes they're even good ideas.
    • Donut Cables
Re: [IC] Small rotary-encoder-only board
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 13 July 2021, 23:18:53 »

Offline donutcat

  • * Vendor
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1185
  • Location: Shelby, NC
  • I have ideas. Sometimes they're even good ideas.
    • Donut Cables
Re: [IC] Small rotary-encoder-only board
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 18 July 2021, 23:48:19 »