Apple Magic Mouse

[itlnstln]

http://www.apple.com/magicmouse/
 
You have your topic.
 
Ready.
 
Go.

[hyperlinked]

I'd have to try it out first. I'm one of those people who has a hell of a time doing the "tap click" thing on trackpads because my palms are always accidentally registering clicks while I'm typing. I'm also a bit leery of anything that has no tactile feedback, but it's Apple so I'm obligated to like it or something to that effect.

Neat idea. I like the low profile design of the mouse.

[itlnstln]

I would have a whole lot more respect for this device if they didn't start the promo with this:
 

Seamless Multi-Touch Surface
 
Magic Mouse — with its low-profile design and seamless top shell — is so sleek and dramatically different, it brings a whole new feel to the way you get around on your Mac. You can’t help but marvel at its smooth, buttonless appearance. Then you touch it and instantly appreciate how good it feels in your hand. But it’s when you start using Magic Mouse that everything comes together.

Yeah, they can't help but marvel at my... well... nevermind. That is the lamest product into ever. It's like the main selling point for this thing is the aesthetics, and oh yeah, by the way, it works completely differently, too, but go ahead, keep marvelling.
 
I hope it works out for them, though.

[timw4mail]

Well, considering my only problem with the mighty mouse was the scroll ball... I think it would be interesting to try.

[msiegel]

it's an iphoneless iphone!?

[itlnstln]

I would like to try one just to see what it's about, but it looks like it introduces more finger movement which might be more tiring in extended sessions.  A scroll wheel with "tilt" functionality keeps motion at a minimum, so I can't really see how some of the functionality of the Magic Mouse is any more efficient.  I'll just have to try one to see.  In the meantime, I can sit here and marvel at it.

[itlnstln]

More pics here.

[itlnstln]

Even more info: http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/20/apples-magic-mouse-multitouch-gestures-bluetooth-four-month/

[ch_123]

I get the impression this came from the same idiots who designed the 'hockey puck' mouse.

[itlnstln]

Again, I would actually have to try the thing first to substantiate any of this, but it seems like a mouse that flat would induce some serious hand and wrist pain.  I moved to a more rounded and angled mouse to (successfully) eliminate pain.  To me, this looks like design based just as much around aesthetics as it is for functionality.

[D-EJ915]

ugh...this kind of thing is obviously not designed for people who like shortcuts and keybindings

[Rajagra]

Looks like the thing that killed Steve Irwin.

[itlnstln]

ugh...this kind of thing is obviously not designed for people who like shortcuts and keybindings

You know, you're absolutely right.  I didn't even think about that.

[Viett]

Pretty much a touchpad on top of a mouse. Don't see the point.

[hyperlinked]

Well, considering my only problem with the mighty mouse was the scroll ball... I think it would be interesting to try.

I liked the idea of the scroll ball, but it was more awkward that I had hoped. It just wasn't useful enough for me to replace my Razer with it.

This thing has more of the shape that I look for in a mouse.

As for itlnstln comments about the touting of the looks of the mouse, it's just Apple. What do you expect? I don't say that in a mocking way either to itlnstln or Apple. It's just how the Apple brand identity goes.

it seems like a mouse that flat would induce some serious hand and wrist pain.  

Not necessarily. It all depends on how you hold your mouse. I hold mine with a very light touch between my thumb and pinkie finger. The other fingers help smooth the motions when they're not busy clicking buttons. I completely abhor big mice (most Logitechs) that are molded to the shape of your hand because you cannot easily alter how you hold those when your hand gets tired without making it hard to press the buttons.

I do. The mouse is the best for moving the pointer. Touchpads are best for gestures. This tries to combine them.

If it's heavy enough, it may work. I wouldn't mind having access to some basic gestures without having to put another piece of equipment on my desk or have to move my hand away from the mouse.

If you have to hold it while swiping your fingers, then as itlnstln commented, you'll probably develop some nice hand pain.

[lowpoly]

Gestures on top of the mouse make sense. I predict this will replace the wheel.

Next thing will be touchpad keyboards.

In the long run the question will be if the new functions justify loss of haptics. I don't think so.

[msiegel]

In the long run the question will be if the new functions justify loss of haptics. I don't think so.

me too - i need a *lot* of feedback

[timw4mail]

I liked the idea of the scroll ball, but it was more awkward that I had hoped.

When it works, it works. When it clogs up...you have to clean it. And that happens too often.

[ehird]

If this is anything like the MacBook Pro's touchpad, the touchpad itself is a button. So you can click with tactile feedback. Only the gestures will lack feedback.

[hyperlinked]

me too - i need a *lot* of feedback

You're in luck! Third party companies are due to release special mods to provide you with a loving electric "buzz" to give you all the tacticle feedback you want. There's no "click", but you may hear a "snap, crackle," or "pop."

[o2dazone]

Will this have a clicking tactile feedback bottom like the Mighty Mouse? I sure hope you don't have to hover your fingers over the mouse, that'd get pretty tiring.

[Hak Foo]

I don't like gestures-- they tend to come in two forms:


1)  So large as to be identifiable, and then why not just a keystroke?  I'm thinking of the game Black and White.

2)  Refined, but requiring very tight control, and so unsuitable for precision work (if I want the photo resized to 380x116, I don't want to worry about a tiny movement giving me 381x116 instead.

[ehird]

Will this have a clicking tactile feedback bottom like the Mighty Mouse? I sure hope you don't have to hover your fingers over the mouse, that'd get pretty tiring.

It does.

I don't like gestures-- they tend to come in two forms:


1)  So large as to be identifiable, and then why not just a keystroke?  I'm thinking of the game Black and White.

2)  Refined, but requiring very tight control, and so unsuitable for precision work (if I want the photo resized to 380x116, I don't want to worry about a tiny movement giving me 381x116 instead.

I think you're thinking of the wrong type of gesture. The gestures in the MacBook and Magic Mouse touchpads are things like "two fingers up or down to scroll" (on the Magic Mouse, "one finger in any direction to scroll"), "two fingers swiped left or right to go forwards/backwards", "three fingers swiped up to show the desktop"... simple things.

[Hak Foo]

It does.



I think you're thinking of the wrong type of gesture. The gestures in the MacBook and Magic Mouse touchpads are things like "two fingers up or down to scroll" (on the Magic Mouse, "one finger in any direction to scroll"), "two fingers swiped left or right to go forwards/backwards", "three fingers swiped up to show the desktop"... simple things.

I think that could be awkward with a mouse still-- you're trying to keep the mouse stable while executing the gesture.

[ehird]

I agree, but note that the Magic Mouse's selection of gestures is anemic — just the finger-to-scroll thing (which, really, is not very different from using a mouse wheel/ball) and the two-finger swipe (which will indeed be a pain to execute, I think).

I'd have been happier if it was a sleeked-up standalone wireless version of an enlarged MacBook touchpad. But that's probably too unconventional for Apple to risk.

[AndrewZorn]

just another case of form/concept over pure function
for better or for worse

[justin]

People, people... wow.

Ok..

In humanity, form = function in importance. Any Baboon can like something that is ugly. Human beings NEED aesthetics. We're human.

Apple is the one of the most (one of the only) innovative companies in the industry, and yet the most criticized by people with no ingenuity of their own. It's sad, and wrong.

Second, they added functionality. You're complaining. Can you be any more pessimistic?

Third, it is MORE haptic, not less. The touch complements the clickyness, it still clicks, and from what I've heard, louder and with better tactility than other mice.

Yes. It's flatter. Big deal. Some mice have always been made for the "palm grip." Others have always been made for the "claw grip." I for one use the claw grip, and find this design to be perfectly ergonomic. Please stop complaining. No one is forcing you to buy one.

If you love it, great. Get one. If you hate it, no one cares. Don't buy one. End of story.

Oh, and by the way… The Mighty Mouse sucked. I got a Razer DeathAdder. This mouse looks like it won't, so I'm thinking of getting one. If it turns out to suck, I'll go back to the DeathAdder. No harm done.

[hyperlinked]

I don't like gestures-- they tend to come in two forms

As ehird mentioned, I think you've got multi-touch gestures in mind rather than these simple navigation gestures. They've had these simple gestures in MacBooks for several generations now and they've been very useful to me. Just the same as a lot of us have our keyboards maxed out so we have less need to move our hands to another input device, the gestures keep you from having to take your hand off the mouse or spend time repositioning the mouse cursor over a scroll arrow before moving it back to the body of the page to click a button or a link, etc.

If you're panning around a large image to view it at 100% detail on your screen or having to view an oversized Web page on a smaller monitor, these simple gestures make a profound difference.

That said, I do find the new clickable oversized touchpad on the new MacBookPros not totally to my liking, but I don't own one so I have limited practice using that kind of trackpad. I also don't find tactility in a track pad to be really that useful. Feeling my finger hit the pad is enough feedback for me.

I think that could be awkward with a mouse still-- you're trying to keep the mouse stable while executing the gesture.

That's the million dollar question. I'm going to guess that this could be something that generates throngs of people who either love it or hate it with not so many in between. Some people will lack the dexterity to use this confidently and many people won't understand how you use a "claw grip" style mouse.

just another case of form/concept over pure function for better or for worse

Huh? How so?

[ch_123]

In humanity, form = function in importance. Any Baboon can like something that is ugly. Human beings NEED aesthetics. We're human.

Speak for yourself.

Apple is the one of the most (one of the only) innovative companies in the industry, and yet the most criticized by people with no ingenuity of their own. It's sad, and wrong.

Don't confuse innovation with marketing plx.

Second, they added functionality. You're complaining. Can you be any more pessimistic?

Some functionality is more important than others. It appears to me that they have sacrificed features I'd consider important (comfort + tactile feedback) in favor of some gimmicky features that a lot of people will probably never use anyway.

Third, it is MORE haptic, not less. The touch complements the clickyness, it still clicks, and from what I've heard, louder and with better tactility than other mice.

Having used haptic devices for extended periods of time, I don't think it's a better type of tactility, the physical travel is important.

Yes. It's flatter. Big deal. Some mice have always been made for the "palm grip." Others have always been made for the "claw grip." I for one use the claw grip, and find this design to be perfectly ergonomic. Please stop complaining. No one is forcing you to buy one.

If you love it, great. Get one. If you hate it, no one cares. Don't buy one. End of story.

Oh yeah, I forgot that we're not allowed to have opinions about things if they disagree with Steve Jobs...

I think you need to lurk moar. This is a site about input devices where we do reviews and share opinions.

Oh, and by the way… The Mighty Mouse sucked. I got a Razer DeathAdder. This mouse looks like it won't, so I'm thinking of getting one. If it turns out to suck, I'll go back to the DeathAdder. No harm done.

Why do you follow a sentence about "Nobody cares about your opinions if you don't like Mac hardware" with a tangent about how you hated some Mac hardware?

You Mac fanbois really don't have a clue do you?

[timw4mail]

Don't confuse innovation with marketing plx.

Innovation makes things easier to market.  Asthetics make things easier to market.

Apple's got good marketing yes, but there's something to be said for minimalistic design that serves a purpose.

But saying Apple isn't innovative is like saying that IBM never pursued cost-cutting strategies in keyboards. A multitouch mouse may not necessarily seem practical, but that doesn't change the fact that it is innovative.

[ehird]

People, people... wow.

I'm an Apple fan — I like most of their products and think their general philosophy is spot on.

But this post is just gratuitous Apple defence.

In humanity, form = function in importance. Any Baboon can like something that is ugly. Human beings NEED aesthetics. We're human.

False. Function is inherently linked to form, but an ugly, functional object will tend to be more popular than the most beautiful object that does nothing at all. And form is not about prettiness. It's about how you achieve the what (function).

Second, they added functionality. You're complaining. Can you be any more pessimistic?

But at what cost?

Third, it is MORE haptic, not less. The touch complements the clickyness, it still clicks, and from what I've heard, louder and with better tactility than other mice.

Of course the basic clicking function is tactile. But a touchpad interface isn't tactile, so the gestures aren't.

If you love it, great. Get one. If you hate it, no one cares. Don't buy one. End of story.

Funny, you seem to be the only person who doesn't care.

I think the Magic Mouse might just be great, and think some of the criticism is unwarranted, but please keep your head on.

[timw4mail]

Why are half of the quotes used three times?

[ehird]

Crazy copy/paste failure of some sort, I guess. I fixed it right after posting.

[AndrewZorn]

i said for better or for worse.

saying that this mouse offers more/better FUNCTION though is plain wrong.

theres nothing this can do that a newer 7button+ mouse cannot do... except add some new rules and situations it will not work.  i can sloppily left click with my elbow if i want, i can scroll with the mouse upside down, i can do forward/back with the tip of my finger when there is cheeto dust on all the others.

i mean, you have to lift your left button finger to right click.  please.

dont get me wrong, it is very cool and innovative, like most of apple's products... just too bad it isnt AS GOOD as the conventional device.

cant believe the new imac prices.  it might be my first apple product.  27" LED backlit IPS panel, with a computer built into the back, for $1700.  compared to about $1500 for a 30" panel (of similar, but more resolution) i think i might end up getting an imac and using it for like a home server... as it has video-in, it will be a monitor primarily.

in which case, i will have this mouse.

[ehird]

Yes, pretty much all mice have the same function, which is why form is much more important than commonly thought. The lifting thing sucks, but note that in OS X, right clicking is quite uncommon.

I, too, am skeptical of its superiority to a regular mouse. But it definitely has a lot of good points.

Agreed on the iMac prices, btw. I have no idea how they can fit an IPS display and a powerful, near-silent computer into an enclosure with the same footprint as a lot of IPS displays, for such a low price. Crazy.

I'm not sure that it can run and act as a display as the same time, although I don't see why not. (Along with the new iMacs, a $999 Mac mini model sans optical drive with Mac OS X Server was released, but if you're primarily interested in the display that's neither here nor there.)

Amusingly, the base model of the 27-inch iMac is actually $100 cheaper than the 30-inch Apple Cinema Display (which hasn't been updated for years).

[ehird]

How many Legos do you have, exactly?

[Rajagra]

Apple is the one of the most (one of the only) innovative companies in the industry, and yet the most criticized by people with no ingenuity of their own. It's sad, and wrong.

Innovative? Get real. Today's Apple is the Dyson of the computing world. They use other people's ideas and claim them as their own brilliant invention. They make below average spec products and sell them at above average prices. Apple's only real contribution to aesthetics is design that is simplified and plain. And in the case of this mouse they have chosen to use technology that is cheap to manufacture yet easy to market as advanced technology.

I'm not saying it's a bad product, just that Apple are like any other big company. Their first second and third motivations are generating profit. They do what is necessary to persuade people to part with their money. Apple does this by making shiny, disposable products and convincing people they need to constantly upgrade to be cool.

[hyperlinked]

Yes, pretty much all mice have the same function, which is why form is much more important than commonly thought. The lifting thing sucks, but note that in OS X, right clicking is quite uncommon.

Not quite. The right button is used everywhere if you want to use it. Even when Apple was putting out one button mice with no features, there were always contextual menus you could get to by using a standard mouse with a right button or by CMD-Clicking.

I know because the lack of a right button was something that always drove me nuts about Apple's mice so I always replaced it with something that gave me a right button and then some.

[FourOhFour]

Considering Apple's reputation for making unusable pointing devices (puck mouse, anyone?), I'll wait for some actual reviews.

Though, honestly, I don't see replacing my expert mouse any time soon. Hell, I'd rather have one big trackpad than a mouse.

[timw4mail]

Innovative? Get real. Today's Apple is the Dyson of the computing world. They use other people's ideas and claim them as their own brilliant invention. They make below average spec products and sell them at above average prices. Apple's only real contribution to aesthetics is design that is simplified and plain. And in the case of this mouse they have chosen to use technology that is cheap to manufacture yet easy to market as advanced technology.

I'm not saying it's a bad product, just that Apple are like any other big company. Their first second and third motivations are generating profit. They do what is necessary to persuade people to part with their money. Apple does this by making shiny, disposable products and convincing people they need to constantly upgrade to be cool.

I'll agree with you on price, but, in general (with the exception of the ipods, it seems), Apple has a policy of simple, simplistically designed products that do one or a few things well, perhaps at the cost of other features.

Of course if Steve Jobs could just learn to deal with buttons...

Considering Apple's reputation for making unusable pointing devices (puck mouse, anyone?), I'll wait for some actual reviews.

Oh, and I supposed Intel is to be avoided because they had that ONE Pentium Fdiv bug?

[hyperlinked]

Innovative? Get real. Today's Apple is the Dyson of the computing world.

I get the feeling we may need to point out some semantics here or this may get silly. If by innovative, you mean things like putting out experimental devices that are high risk and high reward, then yeah there's little that's innovative about Apple as we know it today. By that definition, there are arguably few major companies that fit the bill.

On the other hand, I think a case can be made for seeing creativity as innovation as well. It's not the same as the white lab coats toiling around in a boiler room kind of innovation, but it's certainly work to advance technology.

Work done well has a tendency to look ridiculously easy and simple. As annoying as the fan club may be, it seems a bit much to completely dismiss a company that has been around for decades, was started in a garage in part by a guy who's been better known for his dance moves lately than his origins, and broke the barriers that doomed online music for years. A lot of their technology platform is overrated, but come on, it's not like they haven't done anything.

[ehird]

Innovative? Get real. Today's Apple is the Dyson of the computing world. They use other people's ideas and claim them as their own brilliant invention. They make below average spec products and sell them at above average prices.

Oh, really?

Firstly, Apple never say "we invented ALL OF THIS technology!" like Dyson. No, they say "we designed and engineered all these great parts to work together perfectly".

Secondly, below average spec products, like the 27-inch iMac with a LED-backlit IPS display at 2560x1440, a 2.8 GHz Core i7, 16 GiB of DDR3 RAM, an ATI Radeon 4850 (this being the only non-high-end component) and a 2 TB disk?

Above average prices? See those specs up there? Find all the components (the IPS for the display is important — it provides much, much better colour reproduction and less distortion at angles; it's basically a requirement for professional photography/design work) and all the other stuff the iMac has too. The iMac costs $3,849 (including the keyboard and mouse). This is an excellent price for that hardware. (If you settled for 8 GiB of RAM, it's either $3,049 or $2,649 depending if you want it in 2 * 4 GiB or 4 * 2 GiB.) Oh, and is yours only 20.7 cm thick, and weighing 13.8 kg? Is it almost silent? Does it have the iMac's industrial design? Then add on the cost of an OS X license...

And they don't innovate? Gee, I guess they didn't pioneer the use of unibody notebook construction after all. I guess the iPod just succeeded because it was plain, as opposed to being thinner, lighter, its battery lasting longer, and more importantly, NOT being an interface only a programmer could love, because a programmer designed it to be able to do everything, even things nobody wants to do.

Seriously, I hate a rabid Apple fanboy as much as the next guy, and have my own qualms with them, but saying they don't innovate is just dishonest for any reasonable definition of "innovate".

[timw4mail]

Apple really does rip you off when it comes to memory, though. Considering how easy it actually is to change the memory in an iMac, that seems really strange to me.

I do agree that the overall price seems reasonable, considering an iMac is basically a laptop as far as parts are concerned (with the exception of the hard disk). I wish I could convince my employer that I need the new iMac... I have one of the iMacs that has a TN panel...yech.

[ehird]

Weird, you hate yourself? I once read a blind MP3 player test. Guess who came out last?

I don't recall mentioning audio quality at all. The vast majority of people can't tell the difference, anyway.

But that was just a side note; the iPod clearly did innovate.

There's a difference between a person who likes most of a company's products and agrees with its philosophy, and a rabid fanboy that doesn't base their opinions on reason.

Or does defending Apple at all make you a fanboy? I just criticised a fanboy on the last page for saying that you shouldn't criticise the mouse and that it was perfect, after all...

Apple really does rip you off when it comes to memory, though. Considering how easy it actually is to change the memory in an iMac, that seems really strange to me.

Agreed; the memory prices are steep. You have to take the fact that it's DDR3 into account, though.

Edit:

I do agree that the overall price seems reasonable, considering an iMac is basically a laptop as far as parts are concerned (with the exception of the hard disk).

By the way, this is false for the Core i7 model I mentioned; the i7 is a high-end desktop processor, through and through.

[FourOhFour]

Oh, and I supposed Intel is to be avoided because they had that ONE Pentium Fdiv bug?

I didn't say avoid. I said wait for reviews. There are some products I'm willing to be an early adopter for, including many of Apple's. An Apple mouse isn't one of them.

[itlnstln]

Wow, and I didn't even intend for this to be a flame-fest.  I have been on fire (no pun intended) lately.  I can't help but to start trouble.

[timw4mail]

This is pretty tame, actually. Be wary of threads about Apple on overclock.net ...

[itlnstln]

This is pretty tame, actually. Be wary of threads about Apple on overclock.net ...

You're right.  I have seen much worse Apple vs. non-Apple battles elsewhere.  Overall, though, we're a much tamer crowd than other places on the Web.  I guess keyboard lovers are a little more mature (for the most part) than folks in other forums.

[ehird]

Abacuses are clearly the most intuitive, innovative computing interface ever invented!

[ch_123]

Oh, and I supposed Intel is to be avoided because they had that ONE Pentium Fdiv bug?

If you think that's the only bad thing Intel ever did, you need to read into their product history a bit more...

[timw4mail]

If you think that's the only bad thing Intel ever did, you need to read into their product history a bit more...

Well, that's the first thing that came to mind...without mentioning the Pentium 4...

[AndrewZorn]

the 27" imac has a displayport input

yes they dont do that much innovative stuff but still novel

and no, all mice do not have the same function... even if they did, you cannot deny that this is a step BACKWARD in actual usability

[ehird]

I think the thing to say is that Apple does holistic innovation: the parts themselves aren't new (that would be reductionist innovation), but they're put together in an innovative way... and I'd contend that that's as important as the parts themselves.

As for usability, I couldn't say without using it.

[Rajagra]

I think the thing to say is that Apple does holistic innovation

You should copyright that phrase before Apple steals it and uses it in its advertising.

[AndrewZorn]

nah, they have enough of a time laughing at PeeCee users who only have a calculator and have to PAY for their software (go and order a mac, once you get to the customize step, the same $400 software appears, wait, what??)

[ehird]

You should copyright that phrase before Apple steals it and uses it in its advertising.

If their users can't handle more than one button, how on earth are they going to understand words like "holistic"?!

[Rajagra]

If their users can't handle more than one button, how on earth are they going to understand words like "holistic"?!

Tell them it's something the Pope carries.

[hyperlinked]

Apple really does rip you off when it comes to memory, though. Considering how easy it actually is to change the memory in an iMac, that seems really strange to me.

Less than they used to, but more than they need to still. I have a Mac Pro tower. They made adding RAM and hard drives to that thing so ridiculously easy that anyone who maxes out their order with lots of extra drives and maxed out memory is either an idiot or has the money to justify saving a little inconvenience.

It's not quite as easy now with the unibody laptops, but still not rocket science in most models.

[hyperlinked]

Show Image

LOL, fire escape! Clever!

[itlnstln]

Show Image

That's Hawt.

[itlnstln]

Here is the Magic Mouse taken apart:
 
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/10/magic-mouse-oh-my-godits-full-of-capacitive-sensors.ars

[D-EJ915]

I'm kind of surprised apple hasn't devised some sort of chargive base for the mouse but whatever.

[chimera15]

Anyone tried to use it on a pc?  It's bluetooth right, so it must have some functionality?  maybe the gesture thing wouldn't work cause it needs a special driver....

[justin]

Well, I spent a bunch of time with the Magic Mouse today in real life. It sucks. It really makes me wonder how this product made it through the usually rigorous user testing that Apple puts their products through. The thing is shaped like a sailboat. It's bottom is curved upwards at an awkward angle, making it nearly impossible to hold comfortably. The top is so flat that there is nothing to rest your hand on while using it, effectively forcing you to hold your hand in an awkward claw shape that is far less comfortable than any mouse I have ever used. The mighty mouse actually wasn't too bad compared to this.

And here's something everyone here is all to familiar with... they destroyed any tactility that was left in the scrolling function. Sure, it clicks great, apart from the buttons being indistinguishable from one another. But scrolling basically feels about the same as swiping your finger up and down a flat, shiny piece of glass. There isn't any texture, let alone any form of tactility in line with what you'd get from a decent scroll wheel.

Anyway, I'm sticking with my DeathAdder.

Oh, and by the way… I take back what I said in defense of the Magic Mouse earlier in this thread. I prefer to give Apple the benefit of the doubt, because they have literally changed my life with their great products. Unfortunately, their current input devices suck. Inserting foot into mouth now. :-P

[o2dazone]

My brother had a chance to spend some time with a Magic Mouse and this is what he mostly touched on.

Gestures were cool, but found himself moving the mouse when doing them. Scrolling is as seamless as having a real wheel there, but there's no significant advantage other than appearance to not have one. Left and right click are spot on. Pinching was a bit difficult on such a small area. Mouse is a little flat, due to it's multitouch functionality, found it a bit uncomfortable after some use.

[itlnstln]

My brother had a chance to spend some time with a Magic Mouse and this is what he mostly touched on.
 
Gestures were cool, but found himself moving the mouse when doing them. Scrolling is as seamless as having a real wheel there, but there's no significant advantage other than appearance to not have one. Left and right click are spot on. Pinching was a bit difficult on such a small area. Mouse is a little flat, due to it's multitouch functionality, found it a bit uncomfortable after some use.

This is what I was worried about.  I already don't like flatter mice as, to me, they put my hand in an uncomfortable position.  On the surface, it looks like a looks like a solution searching for a problem.

[timw4mail]

This is what I was worried about.  I already don't like flatter mice as, to me, they put my hand in an uncomfortable position.  On the surface, it looks like a looks like a solution searching for a problem.

Steve Jobs apparently despises buttons.

[itlnstln]

Yeah, I'm suprised they just haven't come up with some sort of mind control device yet.  I guess they are still looking for an implementation that would look pretty enough.

[Rajagra]

Yeah, I'm suprised they just haven't come up with some sort of mind control device yet.  I guess they are still looking for an implementation that would look pretty enough.

I wonder what Apple would do with the OCZ NIA. Apart from making it white, obviously.

[timw4mail]

I wonder what Apple would do with the OCZ NIA. Apart from making it white, obviously.

I'm still a little skeptical that that actually works.

[microsoft windows]

That "magic mouse" looks as ergonomic as a block of wood.

[itlnstln]

That "magic mouse" looks as ergonomic as a block of wood.

That was good.  So you're going to get around to checking one of these out in, say, 2024?

[itlnstln]

Here is a review for the Magic Mouse.  As I would have expected, it is not the most ergonomic mouse according to the reviewer, but otherwise, he found it to be OK (not revolutionary, mind you).  Check it out, and see what you think.

[Viett]

Are there really only two two-fingered gestures? Honestly, you can't tell me that that's more efficient than having a far left/right click. You also lose all of that tactility.

In all honestly, regular mouse gestures are far superior. It is much more precise to move the entire mouse to a certain pattern than it is to perform a gesture on the mousetop.

[itlnstln]

In a sense, I was really hoping there was going to be something special about this mouse. When you think about it, however, the basic design has been with us for many years (just like keyboards). I guess when you find the closest thing to a perfect design (in a basic sense) there has to be a major paradigm shift and interface change to come up with something better.
 
Really, the only truly major changes (read: additions) that have been made to modern mice vs. those of yesteryear have been the scroll wheel and optical/laser sensors.* I would also argue that only one of those, the scroll wheel, has actually changed/augmented the way we use mice.
 
*There have also been interface changes, (serial, bus, USB, PS/2, etc.) but that has more to do with computer evolution, overall, and nothing to do with mice specifically.

[microsoft windows]

I'd compare the scrolling wheel to the Windows keys on many keyboards. Both make things easier, but it's still not too hard to live without them.

[microsoft windows]

That was good.  So you're going to get around to checking one of these out in, say, 2024?

Probably a little sooner. I bet people will start throwing them out around 2015.

[microsoft windows]

I wonder what they'll make next...a mouse where the entire thing's a button?

I just like to stick with the tried and true 2-button mice. They work fine.

[timw4mail]

I wonder what they'll make next...a mouse where the entire thing's a button?

Apple Pro mouse, came right after the hockey puck mouse.

I just like to stick with the tried and true 2-button mice. They work fine.

One button mouse are actually more tried and true.

[microsoft windows]

The Pro Mice and "hockey-puck" mice are single button, but not the entire top is a button.

About scroll wheels--I don't mind them. I am just used to scrolling on the keyboard instead.

[timw4mail]

The Pro Mice and "hockey-puck" mice are single button, but not the entire top is a button.

About scroll wheels--I don't mind them. I am just used to scrolling on the keyboard instead.

The entire pro mouse is a button.

[ak_nala]

The entire pro mouse is a button.

Yep!

Well, except for those little half-moon areas on the sides to put your fingers for moving it around without clicking.  

Except for the scroll button, the Mighty Mouse was essentially one clean, unbroken surface as well, despite having two-button functionality.

[microsoft windows]

I guess I got confused there. I thought the Pro mice came on the Power Mac G3's. But I guess I was wrong. They're the ones that came on Blueberry I-Mac's and e-Mac's right?

[itlnstln]

They used to be called the Mighty Mouse, IIRC.

[microsoft windows]

I don't recall these being called Mighty Mouse.

I remember using them when the 450Mhz I-Mac's were new!

[itlnstln]

My bad, I thought you were talking about a different one.

[timw4mail]

One of these days I'm going to get one of those old ibooks...

[microsoft windows]

I used them. They were terrible.

[PRISONER 24601]

Looks kinda neat. innovative with lots of room to improve.

Like one of those ideas that gets improved with time + user input

too bad apple will just replace it with something completely different as soon as the hipster kids deem it "uncool"... or "cool"... whatever ironic criticism they're using these days.

[Rajagra]

as the hipster kids deem it "uncool"... or "cool"... whatever ironic criticism they're using these days.

Strong? Bad?
StrongBad?
More StrongBad.

[The General]

a magic mouse came with my computer, and let me tell you - its absolutely terrible. i'll outline everything i hate about it here:

1. bluetooth mouse = lag. im talking over 200ms of lag. this alone makes it unusable.
2. the laser is too far forward. i don't know if anybody else does this, but for very minute motion, i don't actually move the whole mouse around, and basically pivet the back of the mouse around the front middle of the mouse. since the laser on the magic mouse is too far forward, i end up pivetting it around the laser and thus not moving the mouse cursor at all.
3. i cant right and left click at the same time. this is still a problem, and has always been the problem with every mouse apple has ever made.
4. the scrolling is some sort of inertial scrolling like the iphone has, which makes scrolling through weapons in games absolutely impossible and makes scrolling through lists that dont scroll smoothly (like the genre/artist/album lists in itunes) impossible to do.
5. it claims to have right click, but it's really "lift your pointer finger click" so instead of just applying pressure with your middle finger, you have to: a. lift your pointer finger, b. apply pressure with your middle finger, c. set your pointer finger back down. this gets very tiring after just ten or so minutes of work.

of course, i don't know what i was expecting out of the mouse. i cant say im disappointed, i knew it was going to be terrible based on this god aweful keyboard they gave me too. i dont even need to post what i hate about that thing.

i ended up picking up a razer mamba and couldnt be happier.

[itlnstln]

That pretty much confirms what I thought this mouse would be.  Oh, the things people do for beauty.
 
 
I can't wait for the Mad Catz mice to come out.

[hyperlinked]

I had a bunch of problems with this mouse too, but not the same ones you had.

2. the laser is too far forward.

You must be a fingertip/claw hand like me. I had the same problem. It works fine when I'm using a palm grip.

4. the scrolling is some sort of inertial scrolling like the iphone has, which makes scrolling through weapons in games absolutely impossible and makes scrolling through lists that dont scroll smoothly (like the genre/artist/album lists in itunes) impossible to do.

I don't think this was supposed to be a gaming mouse. I actually found the scrolling to be very slick and even though I can't use the mouse as a regular mouse, I use it as a touchpad to sweep my window views around when I'm working with large database tables that won't fit on a monitor.

5. it claims to have right click, but it's really "lift your pointer finger click" so instead of just applying pressure with your middle finger, you have to: a. lift your pointer finger, b. apply pressure with your middle finger, c. set your pointer finger back down. this gets very tiring after just ten or so minutes of work.

There may already be third-party mods that address this. The Apple laptops don't have this problem. You can put a second finger down to right click just fine.

of course, i don't know what i was expecting out of the mouse. i cant say im disappointed, i knew it was going to be terrible based on this god aweful keyboard they gave me too. i dont even need to post what i hate about that thing.

No doubt about it. The keyboard sucks, but the mouse is pretty cool for specialized purposes. It's not right for me, but I like the idea.

i ended up picking up a razer mamba and couldnt be happier.

I went and got a Razer Imperator... it has a few flaws too, but I like it a lot better than the Magic Mouse for my usual tasks.

[microsoft windows]

I like my trusty Microsoft mice much better than anything from Crapple.

[piyokos]

a magic mouse came with my computer, and let me tell you - its absolutely terrible. i'll outline everything i hate about it here:

1. bluetooth mouse = lag. im talking over 200ms of lag. this alone makes it unusable.
2. the laser is too far forward. i don't know if anybody else does this, but for very minute motion, i don't actually move the whole mouse around, and basically pivet the back of the mouse around the front middle of the mouse. since the laser on the magic mouse is too far forward, i end up pivetting it around the laser and thus not moving the mouse cursor at all.
3. i cant right and left click at the same time. this is still a problem, and has always been the problem with every mouse apple has ever made.
4. the scrolling is some sort of inertial scrolling like the iphone has, which makes scrolling through weapons in games absolutely impossible and makes scrolling through lists that dont scroll smoothly (like the genre/artist/album lists in itunes) impossible to do.
5. it claims to have right click, but it's really "lift your pointer finger click" so instead of just applying pressure with your middle finger, you have to: a. lift your pointer finger, b. apply pressure with your middle finger, c. set your pointer finger back down. this gets very tiring after just ten or so minutes of work.

of course, i don't know what i was expecting out of the mouse. i cant say im disappointed, i knew it was going to be terrible based on this god aweful keyboard they gave me too. i dont even need to post what i hate about that thing.

i ended up picking up a razer mamba and couldnt be happier.

i think you are talking about the 'mighty mouse' which is the previous generation. i pulled a wired one off a new imac in 2006 and used it for a few years, although i dont know why i persisted that long.

first problem, scroll ball on top stops working after a couple days. this is because the insides get dirty really fast and start slipping. id have to 'clean' it by running it over a damp cloth every day and it still had issues. i dont have dirty hands and i dont eat at my computer or whatever.

the side buttons went crazy so i had to disable them in software.

middle click requires pressing the entire mouse down which is retarded

right click requires lifting your left finger which is also stupid.

i'm cheap so i switched to an ancient dexxa optical which is still 100x better then the mighty mouse...

[ch_123]

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Magic Mouse - the laser being too far forward, for example, is a common complaint about the Magic Mouse.

I had been interested in trying the Mighty Mouse, as on paper, they looked like a really good idea. Tried one out and it was pretty mediocre. I'd like to find a cheap one so I could render hacks on it.

[EverythingIBM]

I don't like gestures-- they tend to come in two forms:

1)  So large as to be identifiable, and then why not just a keystroke?  I'm thinking of the game Black and White.

2)  Refined, but requiring very tight control, and so unsuitable for precision work (if I want the photo resized to 380x116, I don't want to worry about a tiny movement giving me 381x116 instead.

That's a very good observation. Sometimes I need pixel-by-pixel accuracy; I use a mechanical mouse for this becuase rolling the ball in smaller increments is a lot easier, I find optical sometimes "jerky", which, a mechanical ball eliminates. Call me crazy, but mechanical mice are still very good. CRTs are great for classic gaming when you need major resolution changes and don't want any stretching artefacts.

Gestures on top of the mouse make sense. I predict this will replace the wheel.

Next thing will be touchpad keyboards.

In the long run the question will be if the new functions justify loss of haptics. I don't think so.

No. Nothing will ever replace the basic mouse or keyboard. People who do ZERO technical work with graphics and precision seem to garner this misconception. Would I paint intricate art with my finger instead of a paintbrush? Of course not! Sometimes your fingers' energy has to be converted into higher accuracy with the use of tools. I can see WACOM pads being used more in the future; but you're exerting force from your fingers to a pen to a pad. Not using your finger directly.

And as for keyboards; there are already a lot of flat "touch" ones. They are terrible; it's difficult to orient your fingers. Furthermore, I like pressing crisp TALL keys.

Saying keyboards and mice will become replaced is like saying square monitors will become circle.

[hyperlinked]

I use a mechanical mouse for this becuase rolling the ball in smaller increments is a lot easier, I find optical sometimes "jerky", which, a mechanical ball eliminates.

A decent optical on a proper surface should handle small increments just fine though it does take getting used to when you're really used to a mechanical mouse. Even after I had made the conversion to an optical mouse, I used to use a mechanical mouse for gaming because of the tactile feedback you could get from the ball moving. Eventually, I wasn't any different whether I used the mechanical mouse or the optical though I do admit that I miss the tactile feedback of the mechanical mouse... I don't miss all the gunk that builds up on the rollers and causes the mouse to go off track though so that's why I've stuck with optical... especially since I don't game anymore.

[EverythingIBM]

A decent optical on a proper surface should handle small increments just fine though it does take getting used to when you're really used to a mechanical mouse. Even after I had made the conversion to an optical mouse, I used to use a mechanical mouse for gaming because of the tactile feedback you could get from the ball moving. Eventually, I wasn't any different whether I used the mechanical mouse or the optical though I do admit that I miss the tactile feedback of the mechanical mouse... I don't miss all the gunk that builds up on the rollers and causes the mouse to go off track though so that's why I've stuck with optical... especially since I don't game anymore.

Ironically, I find optical better for gaming.

I keep my mechanical ball mice clean, I never get gunk in them (other people always complain, but I've never had a problem of buildup of stuff in the ball tracks before).

My optical mouse moves VERY fast (second fastest speed in windows), so, using a mechanical mouse helps allow me to "roll" it slower on such a high cursor speed. One could say why don't I just turn down the speed? Well, I like moving fast, but also precise when I need to. I can still perform fine with optical/laser; I just think mechanical is more precise, because, it takes time for the ball to roll and register, opposed to an optical instantly responding (so you can't delay the cursor from spiking).