Author Topic: POM vs PBT. (Read 12640 times)

Fragil1ty · « **on:** Sat, 14 September 2013, 12:46:14 »

Hey guys, I've recently ordered another Keycool 84 but this time it's the Black POM version with Reds and I'm just wondering, my current Keycool 84 has PBT, what is better?

Or is it all subjective to the user?

IvanIvanovich · « **Reply #1 on:** Sat, 14 September 2013, 13:24:22 »

Both are about as hard wearing, they just have a quite difference surface feeling. PBT has a dry feeling, where as POM feels 'wet'. Mostly just preference.

Fragil1ty · « **Reply #2 on:** Sat, 14 September 2013, 14:19:32 »

Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Sat, 14 September 2013, 13:24:22

Both are about as hard wearing, they just have a quite difference surface feeling. PBT has a dry feeling, where as POM feels 'wet'. Mostly just preference.

Oh okay, sweet. Does the Noppoo use POM keys? I think it does right?

IvanIvanovich · « **Reply #3 on:** Sat, 14 September 2013, 14:32:03 »

Yes, some of them anyway.

Hypersphere · « **Reply #4 on:** Sat, 14 September 2013, 14:46:14 »

My overwhelming preference is PBT; I like the dry feel. You can get PBT keycap sets for the KC84 from Banggood for a very low price, and they have free shipping. Shipping is very slow from Banggood, but it eventually comes through. I think it took about a month for me to get my keycaps.

BTW, if you have a Leopold FC660M (the Cherry-switch model), an added bonus of the Banggood PBT keycap sets for the KC84 is that the spacebar also fits the Leopold.

davkol · « **Reply #5 on:** Sat, 14 September 2013, 15:46:18 »

POM has very low friction, and the keycaps are usually black. PBT on the other hand feels rough in most cases, partly due to "gritty" texture; colors are almost always other than black.

terran5992 · « **Reply #6 on:** Sun, 15 September 2013, 04:12:38 »

Never tried Pom before, but pbt gives a real rough , kinda like high grit sand paper

dorkvader · « **Reply #7 on:** Sun, 15 September 2013, 10:37:43 »

In general I like PBT, but I will admit that POM spacebars are nice. Both are leagues ahead of ABS in my opinion.

HotKillerZzz · « **Reply #8 on:** Sun, 15 September 2013, 11:14:48 »

So PBT feels rough, POM feels wet, then how bout abs?

TheSoulhunter · « **Reply #9 on:** Sun, 15 September 2013, 12:32:35 »

PBT feels "rough" when its textured because its hard...
POM feels "wet" because of the low friction (like putting oil on PBT caps)
ABS feels like your everyday plastic (as a lot of it is made of ABS or blends with it)

Fragil1ty · « **Reply #10 on:** Sun, 15 September 2013, 14:06:00 »

Ah yes, this makes sense now thinking about it because my old Keycool 84 grey is a PBT, it has that rough feel, like it's got a textured pattern on the key? and yeah POM feels kind of wet in a sense, it's kind of like comparing matte to glossy, that sort of thing in my opinion.

Hypersphere · « **Reply #11 on:** Sun, 15 September 2013, 16:41:26 »

Quote from: HotKillerZzz on Sun, 15 September 2013, 11:14:48

So PBT feels rough, POM feels wet, then how bout abs?

ABS feels "sticky". It offers increased friction at the skin-plastic interface compared to PBT.

Tony · « **Reply #12 on:** Sun, 15 September 2013, 21:11:11 »

Quote from: TheSoulhunter on Sun, 15 September 2013, 12:32:35

PBT feels "rough" when its textured because its hard...
POM feels "wet" because of the low friction (like putting oil on PBT caps)
ABS feels like your everyday plastic (as a lot of it is made of ABS or blends with it)

Very well described sir. I have Noppoo with POM and Filco with PBT. I think both are good, but PBT is a bit tougher.

dorkvader · « **Reply #13 on:** Sun, 15 September 2013, 21:54:24 »

Quote from: Tony on Sun, 15 September 2013, 21:11:11

Quote from: TheSoulhunter on Sun, 15 September 2013, 12:32:35
PBT feels "rough" when its textured because its hard...
POM feels "wet" because of the low friction (like putting oil on PBT caps)
ABS feels like your everyday plastic (as a lot of it is made of ABS or blends with it)

Very well described sir. I have Noppoo with POM and Filco with PBT. I think both are good, but PBT is a bit tougher.

I disagree: PBT has a much lower toughness than either POM or ABS. The "hammer test" is proof of it.

Since PBT has a higher hardness and young's modulus, it's natural that the toughness (total area under the curve) is lower. Unless you aren't talking about the same toughness as I am.

tbc · « **Reply #14 on:** Sun, 15 September 2013, 23:43:36 »

why do people care about toughness for keycaps? I would hardly care finger smashing a 'highly dangerous' situation

TheSoulhunter · « **Reply #15 on:** Mon, 16 September 2013, 00:15:55 »

Quote from: tbc on Sun, 15 September 2013, 23:43:36

why do people care about toughness for keycaps? I would hardly care finger smashing a 'highly dangerous' situation

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40447.0

eth0s · « **Reply #16 on:** Mon, 16 September 2013, 00:29:17 »

PBT and POM are both nice. But the only POM keycaps with legends are laser in-filled, AFAIK. Or at least they are most common lettered POM keycaps. And you will feel the raised letters on the keytops. I've been using exclusively PBT for like a year, and now ABS feels kind of funny to me. And shiny ABS has a distinctive "greasy" feeling, that you cannot wash away.

laffindude · « **Reply #17 on:** Mon, 16 September 2013, 00:49:05 »

ABS > POM > PBT.

terran5992 · « **Reply #18 on:** Mon, 16 September 2013, 03:29:38 »

Wut?

It should be

PBT>POM>ABS

bahamot · « **Reply #19 on:** Mon, 16 September 2013, 03:38:29 »

Quote from: terran5992 on Mon, 16 September 2013, 03:29:38

Wut?

It should be

PBT>POM>ABS

or
ABS < POM < PBT.

laffindude · « **Reply #20 on:** Mon, 16 September 2013, 03:40:26 »

PBT feels like poop to type on.

terran5992 · « **Reply #21 on:** Mon, 16 September 2013, 03:44:52 »

Theres no "grip" on abs or pom

laffindude · « **Reply #22 on:** Mon, 16 September 2013, 03:48:09 »

Why do you need grip? PBT kills the feel of the switch.

terran5992 · « **Reply #23 on:** Mon, 16 September 2013, 06:17:37 »

Really? Theres a different switch feel?

I had no idea

dorkvader · « **Reply #24 on:** Mon, 16 September 2013, 06:31:58 »

Quote from: eth0s on Mon, 16 September 2013, 00:29:17

PBT and POM are both nice. But the only POM keycaps with legends are laser in-filled, AFAIK. Or at least they are most common lettered POM keycaps. And you will feel the raised letters on the keytops. I've been using exclusively PBT for like a year, and now ABS feels kind of funny to me. And shiny ABS has a distinctive "greasy" feeling, that you cannot wash away.

That's why I like my MX SPOS so much. The legends may be a little off center, but they aren't infilled which is great.

IvanIvanovich · « **Reply #25 on:** Mon, 16 September 2013, 16:22:03 »

Yeah some of the older Cherry POM have no raise at all on the legends. No idea how they managed it or why they stopped as they were VERY nice. I made the mistake of selling a set like that before I knew they weren't all that nice :/

Fragil1ty · « **Reply #26 on:** Mon, 16 September 2013, 17:41:06 »

I must admit that my Noppoo feels a lot nicer to type on than my Keycool, but I guess it's down to personal preference.

When I get the POM Black version of the Keycool, I guess it'll be review time!

Belfong · « **Reply #27 on:** Mon, 16 September 2013, 18:54:13 »

Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Mon, 16 September 2013, 16:22:03

Yeah some of the older Cherry POM have no raise at all on the legends. No idea how they managed it or why they stopped as they were VERY nice. I made the mistake of selling a set like that before I knew they weren't all that nice :/

The Noppoo POM has no raise in the legend. Feels very smooth to me too.

davkol · « **Reply #28 on:** Mon, 16 September 2013, 19:41:52 »

There's no lettering after few weeks of use anyway.

Belfong · « **Reply #29 on:** Mon, 30 September 2013, 02:47:51 »

After using the Noppoo for 2 weeks, I find that some of the letters are becoming shiny. Is that common to you guys? It's pretty inconsistent. Some keys are shinny and some are not. Most notably shiny are:
ASDGHKL
CVBN

Edit: now that I think of it.. this keyboard is a second hand keyboard and while the owner claimed that it was not used, as he hated Blacks and kept it in the box, there is no guarantee on usage.. so it may not be 2 weeks and the shiny could be cause by 2 years of usage. Strange that it is only certain keys.. so maybe it was swapped out before sale, I don't know.

Because of this, I am not sure if I like POM.

davkol · « **Reply #30 on:** Mon, 30 September 2013, 08:19:42 »

Lettering on the black choc mini is awful, it fades almost instantly. Not sure about the shiny keys though. Mine are like new in this regard—after a year.

do_Og@n · « **Reply #31 on:** Mon, 30 September 2013, 08:33:47 »

I've never tried POM myself. Now you have me curious.

I personally like PBT but I've fallen in love with my Ducky Shine keycaps I bought a long time ago. The smooth (kind of glossy) feeling gives you a good grip on the keycaps.

Belfong · « **Reply #32 on:** Mon, 30 September 2013, 08:59:13 »

I'll clean it in the next few days to see if it's grease or finger oil or if it's really became shiny.

tp4tissue · « **Reply #33 on:** Mon, 30 September 2013, 09:05:50 »

POM is supposed to be smoother.. it has some soft suppleness to it.

rowdy · « **Reply #34 on:** Mon, 30 September 2013, 18:45:38 »

Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 30 September 2013, 09:05:50

POM is supposed to be smoother.. it has some soft suppleness to it.
Show Image

Sounds intriguing.

Zeal · « **Reply #35 on:** Tue, 01 October 2013, 06:00:40 »

POM switches sound interesting... But I'm not sure how I feel about the "shining" while still looking "gritty" =|
And there's a GB for thick blank POM caps atm...

gameaholic · « **Reply #36 on:** Tue, 01 October 2013, 12:41:14 »

Quote from: dorkvader on Sun, 15 September 2013, 10:37:43

In general I like PBT, but I will admit that POM spacebars are nice. Both are leagues ahead of ABS in my opinion.

where can I get a POM spacebar?

Zeal · « **Reply #37 on:** Tue, 01 October 2013, 13:32:45 »

Quote from: gameaholic on Tue, 01 October 2013, 12:41:14

Quote from: dorkvader on Sun, 15 September 2013, 10:37:43
In general I like PBT, but I will admit that POM spacebars are nice. Both are leagues ahead of ABS in my opinion.

where can I get a POM spacebar?

GB for $29 for full 104 blank set
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49081.0

dorkvader · « **Reply #38 on:** Tue, 01 October 2013, 21:01:53 »

Quote from: gameaholic on Tue, 01 October 2013, 12:41:14

Quote from: dorkvader on Sun, 15 September 2013, 10:37:43
In general I like PBT, but I will admit that POM spacebars are nice. Both are leagues ahead of ABS in my opinion.

where can I get a POM spacebar?

You can buy a cherry keyboard that has one and sell the rest.

Here's one that's not too much, and you can probably make most of it back by selling the switches
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271225181823

Tony · « **Reply #39 on:** Wed, 25 December 2013, 23:39:55 »

I have Choc mini with POM and Filco with PBT. I prefer PBT, but POM is quite close.

As someone said, PBT feels dry and coarse while POM feels wet and delicate. So it's subjective whether you like one or the other.

terran5992 · « **Reply #40 on:** Thu, 26 December 2013, 00:12:06 »

Does POM get shiny?

Pacifist · « **Reply #41 on:** Thu, 26 December 2013, 00:13:36 »

Quote from: terran5992 on Thu, 26 December 2013, 00:12:06

Does POM get shiny?

its pretty much inherently shiny

terran5992 · « **Reply #42 on:** Thu, 26 December 2013, 00:14:02 »

Quote from: Pacifist on Thu, 26 December 2013, 00:13:36

Quote from: terran5992 on Thu, 26 December 2013, 00:12:06
Does POM get shiny?

its pretty much inherently shiny

So its like shiny ABS?

Tony · « **Reply #43 on:** Thu, 26 December 2013, 00:22:15 »

Yes, all ABS, POM and PBTgets shiny with time. But PBT and POM get shiny much less and you still can type with a shiny POM or PBT without feeling sticky.

terran5992 · « **Reply #44 on:** Thu, 26 December 2013, 02:08:25 »

Quote from: Tony on Thu, 26 December 2013, 00:22:15

Yes, all ABS, POM and PBTgets shiny with time. But PBT and POM get shiny much less and you still can type with a shiny POM or PBT without feeling sticky.

Oh i have got to try POM one of these days

spremino · « **Reply #45 on:** Thu, 26 December 2013, 06:01:30 »

Quote from: tbc on Sun, 15 September 2013, 23:43:36

why do people care about toughness for keycaps?

Because they don't want their keycaps becoming shiny within weeks of usage. "Hard-wearing" would be a better word.

SpAmRaY · « **Reply #46 on:** Thu, 26 December 2013, 08:21:41 »

Quote from: spremino on Thu, 26 December 2013, 06:01:30

Quote from: tbc on Sun, 15 September 2013, 23:43:36
why do people care about toughness for keycaps?

Because they don't want their keycaps becoming shiny within weeks of usage. "Hard-wearing" would be a better word.

I've been using dolch gmk caps from originative daily for a while now and there is no noticeable shine.

do_Og@n · « **Reply #47 on:** Thu, 26 December 2013, 08:57:57 »

I got myself some POM keycaps from Banggood a month or two ago and I have to say I like them a lot. Instead of the gritty, coarse feel you get from PBT they feel soft, comfortable to type on.

I consider them to be the shag carpet keycap of the keycap world.

tbc · « **Reply #48 on:** Thu, 26 December 2013, 14:39:03 »

Quote from: spremino on Thu, 26 December 2013, 06:01:30

Quote from: tbc on Sun, 15 September 2013, 23:43:36
why do people care about toughness for keycaps?

Because they don't want their keycaps becoming shiny within weeks of usage. "Hard-wearing" would be a better word.

i wasn't talking about shining. i was talking about crushing pressure.

rowdy · « **Reply #49 on:** Thu, 26 December 2013, 19:15:19 »

Quote from: tbc on Thu, 26 December 2013, 14:39:03

Quote from: spremino on Thu, 26 December 2013, 06:01:30
Quote from: tbc on Sun, 15 September 2013, 23:43:36
why do people care about toughness for keycaps?

Because they don't want their keycaps becoming shiny within weeks of usage. "Hard-wearing" would be a better word.

i wasn't talking about shining. i was talking about crushing pressure.

So is POM a stronger plastic than ABS or PBT?

News:

Author Topic: POM vs PBT. (Read 12640 times)