Using dremel on metal plate

[berserkfan]

Hi

I got inspired by AGMurdercore's plate modding attempt.

But I'd like to choose an easier, mechanised method.

Has anyone tried using a dremel or some other type of drill on a metal keyboard plate?

I am asking because I actually have zero experience in these areas.

[fohat.digs]

Dremel is great for almost anything small. Just make sure that you have the correct attachments.

For fine work, put on your safety glasses, get very close, hold the tool with both hands, and be very slow and careful.

[qwack]

Make sure to use the right tool & speed for the right material. Aluminium is quite soft, but clogs tools easily. Steel is much harder and wears tools significantly. In any case, don't forget to use eye protection.

[lowpoly]

Also, let the speed do the work, not pressure.

[berserkfan]

Dremel is great for almost anything small. Just make sure that you have the correct attachments.

For fine work, put on your safety glasses, get very close, hold the tool with both hands, and be very slow and careful.

OK, how do I know whether I am holding a steel, and iron, or an aluminium plate? Is there a difference when you dremel? (I don't want to bend the plate to figure out if it's aluminium.)

Do the different attachments matter? My cheapo China-made dremel of course doesn't come with instructions. I have enough common sense to figure out that some of these heads are definitely not for cutting metal, but most of the rest look pretty similar and I have no idea what's best for a Plate Modification project.

[qwack]

To find out if you're working with an aluminium or steel plate, use a magnet; it will stick to steel, it won't stick to aluminium. I'm not sure iron sheets are commonly available.

Attachments do matter; different materials (HSS, carbide, diamond...) have different properties, you can check Dremel's website to see what they recommend, and at which speed setting, to work on this or that material.

Don't go cheap on the attachments; it's better to use a cheap Dremel with quality attachments (what Dremel offers is good enough) than the other way round.

[adventurepoop]

I just used a dremel to cut down a plate for my 34 key, with little to no problems. I don't really know what you would be looking to do to the plate, but the biggest thing I could say is to not rush anything while cutting.

[Findecanor]

I used a hacksaw and a set of files on a aluminium plate, but I did not cut it that much, mostly just modified some switch positions. I have done lots of non-keyboard related stuff in aluminium also.
I would suggest using a dremel and cutting wheel for cutting where you can't reach otherwise with a hacksaw, and then finish the edge with a file. Keep a steady hand and let the rotation do the work.

[WhiteFireDragon]

OK, how do I know whether I am holding a steel, and iron, or an aluminium plate? Is there a difference when you dremel? (I don't want to bend the plate to figure out if it's aluminium.)

Do the different attachments matter? My cheapo China-made dremel of course doesn't come with instructions. I have enough common sense to figure out that some of these heads are definitely not for cutting metal, but most of the rest look pretty similar and I have no idea what's best for a Plate Modification project.

Aluminum is much lighter. Almost all plates are steel unless you're modding a korean keyboard, or have the first batch of plates I made.

A dremel with the right bit will chew through aluminum. For steel, it'll take a bit more effort, the difference is night and day. Here is a dremel with tungsten carbide cutting bit, used to mod a steel plate. Wear safety glasses because there will be metal dust flying.

[Melvang]

To tell if you have aluminum or steel.  Put an abrasive wheel on the dremel.  Turn it on medium to high speed.  Touch the metal with the EDGE of the wheel.  If there are no sparks then its aluminum.  If you get a little of very dull orange sparks then stainless.  If you get bright orange/yellow sparks then carbon steel.  If it is a factory plate I would be willing to be it is carbon steel.  Wear safety glasses AND ear plugs.  Both are MUCH cheaper than a visit to the ER.

[mkawa]

consider aviation snips instead for sheet metal

another nice tool is the bessey super nibbler

[berserkfan]

To tell if you have aluminum or steel.  Put an abrasive wheel on the dremel.  Turn it on medium to high speed.  Touch the metal with the EDGE of the wheel.  If there are no sparks then its aluminum.  If you get a little of very dull orange sparks then stainless.  If you get bright orange/yellow sparks then carbon steel.  If it is a factory plate I would be willing to be it is carbon steel.  Wear safety glasses AND ear plugs.  Both are MUCH cheaper than a visit to the ER.

Wow

Solid knowledge, you guys!

I am unable to tell what material my dremel has, given that it is a $28 Chinese-made set without proper documentation. There's nothing like proper labelling. I'm quite ok with killing the attachments, given that the only purpose of buying a dremel is to poke around keyboards. Just wanted to know if that might be dangerous or cause serious problems.

Is it possible to assume that most dremels, even cheap ones, can cut steel plates? After all, even if it is cheap, I don't think the manufacturers will make it so poorly that it can't do the normal work of a dremel.

[mkawa]

factory plates are mostly carbon steel. however, carbon steel oxidizes like crazy, so you don't need melvang's magical spark inspection technique. if there's paint on it, it's carbon steel

[berserkfan]

factory plates are mostly carbon steel. however, carbon steel oxidizes like crazy, so you don't need melvang's magical spark inspection technique. if there's paint on it, it's carbon steel

That sounds like every standard plate every made, except maybe Corsair's plate cum casing?

Actually when you say oxidize, you mean rust right? Sounds terrible - so all plates must be painted, and if you scratch them while modding, you have to paint over or else you'll be screwed in a year or two when it starts rusting?

[CPTBadAss]

Yes, oxidize is rusting.

The plates either need to be finished with a process like anodizing or a coating like paint.

[jdcarpe]

consider aviation snips instead for sheet metal

another nice tool is the bessey super nibbler

According to Amazon reviews, the Bessey D24SB is made in China, and is prone to breakage, or simply not working. Apparently, they stopped making the D23 in Germany and moved production to PRC.

[AGmurdercore]

I personally don't like using the dremel for this because my dremel is kinda ****ed up and i will have almost 0 precision with it. If you have a better dremel, that you are comfortable working with it will be just a matter of a few minutes to cut the holes on a full sized plate (rather then a few hours if you do this by hand). Good luck, i am looking forward to the results!

[mkawa]

consider aviation snips instead for sheet metal

another nice tool is the bessey super nibbler

According to Amazon reviews, the Bessey D24SB is made in China, and is prone to breakage, or simply not working. Apparently, they stopped making the D23 in Germany and moved production to PRC.

darn. even harry epstein ran out of the USA made version

i would go with aviation snips then. another option is an oscillation multi-tool. i've found them much more precise when scoring sheet metal

[berserkfan]

dremel and file are making practically no effect on the plate I'm trying on now.

[HotKillerZzz]

--------

[Melvang]

dremel and file are making practically no effect on the plate I'm trying on now.

.

What kind of cutter are you attempting to use?

[Findecanor]

dremel and file are making practically no effect on the plate I'm trying on now.

I use cutting wheels out of diamond-coated metal. If you cut from the edge of the plate it is easier to see progress. It takes a great amount of time to cut through hardened steel and the cutting wheel and dremel may need to cool down now and again. I mean, Dremels weren't really made for large jobs in steel.

For fine work, put on your safety glasses, ...

BTW, always use safety-glasses with a Dremel!

To tell if you have aluminum or steel.  ... If there are no sparks then its aluminum.

Or use a magnet ...

[Melvang]

Safety glasses should be worn when using any power or striking tool.

[berserkfan]

dremel and file are making practically no effect on the plate I'm trying on now.

I use cutting wheels out of diamond-coated metal. If you cut from the edge of the plate it is easier to see progress. It takes a great amount of time to cut through hardened steel and the cutting wheel and dremel may need to cool down now and again. I mean, Dremels weren't really made for large jobs in steel.

It's proving a terrible headache. I think AGMurdercore was easily able to do his hand file mod because he was using a Razer plate (presumably flimsy and soft). This cooler master plate is incredibly hard. I am even thinking of not making it switch moddable anymore and just accepting it as it is, and soldering in my jailhouse blues instead. The problem is that CM's PCB is of significantly lower quality than the plate. I am genuinely not sure if it can survive a second desoldering/soldering cycle if I want to change the switches again in future.

As you guys are more experienced, do you have any experience or advice to offer regarding repeated soldering/desoldering of the CM QFR PCB (or any single sided PCB)?

[qwack]

Don't heat the pads for too long. IIRC, when soldering/desoldering, it's better to work quickly, i.e. use a hotter iron (temperature, not wattage) and leave it on a joint for less time instead of using a not-so-hot iron and heat the pads/leads for longer.

I think there is a soldering thread around, you'll probably find great advice there.

[phoenix1234]

It's proving a terrible headache. I think AGMurdercore was easily able to do his hand file mod because he was using a Razer plate (presumably flimsy and soft). This cooler master plate is incredibly hard. I am even thinking of not making it switch moddable anymore and just accepting it as it is, and soldering in my jailhouse blues instead. The problem is that CM's PCB is of significantly lower quality than the plate. I am genuinely not sure if it can survive a second desoldering/soldering cycle if I want to change the switches again in future.

As you guys are more experienced, do you have any experience or advice to offer regarding repeated soldering/desoldering of the CM QFR PCB (or any single sided PCB)?

Did you try to use a mini chisel set to mod your plate?
I think you can start with this Asaki AK-369 chisel set

It is just about 4$

If you have a dedicated intention for cutting the plate with Dremel, I think you should consider to get the diamond cutting blade (1.5$ / blade)



If you have a plan for repeatedly soldering / desoldering on a CM QFR PCB, you should :
- Only use lead solder (63 / 37)
- Use a decent soldering iron and only set temperature max 330 oC
- Use a good soldering pump

In Singapore you can get a lot of good equipment like Goot soldering iron and soldering pump (Made in Japan) at Sim Lim Tower so I assume you can get everything done easily.

[berserkfan]

It's proving a terrible headache. I think AGMurdercore was easily able to do his hand file mod because he was using a Razer plate (presumably flimsy and soft). This cooler master plate is incredibly hard. I am even thinking of not making it switch moddable anymore and just accepting it as it is, and soldering in my jailhouse blues instead. The problem is that CM's PCB is of significantly lower quality than the plate. I am genuinely not sure if it can survive a second desoldering/soldering cycle if I want to change the switches again in future.

As you guys are more experienced, do you have any experience or advice to offer regarding repeated soldering/desoldering of the CM QFR PCB (or any single sided PCB)?

Did you try to use a mini chisel set to mod your plate?
I think you can start with this Asaki AK-369 chisel set

Show Image

It is just about 4$

If you have a dedicated intention for cutting the plate with Dremel, I think you should consider to get the diamond cutting blade (1.5$ / blade)

Show Image

If you have a plan for repeatedly soldering / desoldering on a CM QFR PCB, you should :
- Only use lead solder (63 / 37)
- Use a decent soldering iron and only set temperature max 330 oC
- Use a good soldering pump

In Singapore you can get a lot of good equipment like Goot soldering iron and soldering pump (Made in Japan) at Sim Lim Tower so I assume you can get everything done easily.

Yeah, I was using a mini-chisel set. I don't know if I'm filing right at all. Doesn't seem to have any effect on the plate. It is truly hard.

[Melvang]

It's proving a terrible headache. I think AGMurdercore was easily able to do his hand file mod because he was using a Razer plate (presumably flimsy and soft). This cooler master plate is incredibly hard. I am even thinking of not making it switch moddable anymore and just accepting it as it is, and soldering in my jailhouse blues instead. The problem is that CM's PCB is of significantly lower quality than the plate. I am genuinely not sure if it can survive a second desoldering/soldering cycle if I want to change the switches again in future.

As you guys are more experienced, do you have any experience or advice to offer regarding repeated soldering/desoldering of the CM QFR PCB (or any single sided PCB)?

Did you try to use a mini chisel set to mod your plate?
I think you can start with this Asaki AK-369 chisel set

Show Image

It is just about 4$

If you have a dedicated intention for cutting the plate with Dremel, I think you should consider to get the diamond cutting blade (1.5$ / blade)

Show Image

If you have a plan for repeatedly soldering / desoldering on a CM QFR PCB, you should :
- Only use lead solder (63 / 37)
- Use a decent soldering iron and only set temperature max 330 oC
- Use a good soldering pump

In Singapore you can get a lot of good equipment like Goot soldering iron and soldering pump (Made in Japan) at Sim Lim Tower so I assume you can get everything done easily.

Yeah, I was using a mini-chisel set. I don't know if I'm filing right at all. Doesn't seem to have any effect on the plate. It is truly hard.

Couple things to keep in mind when working with steel and hand tools.  This is one place where cheap tools are not going to serve you well even if it is a one time deal with very few exceptions.  I think you mean you are using a mini/jewelers file set.  In my opinion for the amount of material you are trying to remove these are just not going to get the job done.  You are going to want "full sized" files.  Granted you will want on the smaller side of things but the mini ones will take forever to remove the amount you are trying to.  These sets are made for smoothing edges and removing slight burrs from material.  Not for cutting slots that deep. 

Go to www.mcmastercarr.com, type *hand files* into the search block, Click on rectangular hand files (it is the top left option), and look down to the "double-cut thin-tapered".  This is the only one that I could find quickly that has teeth on the edges of the file and is less than 1/2 inch wide.  the coarse cut will remove material the quickest, and the fine cut will give the smoothest edge.

Also, files only cut in one direction.  Double cut does not mean it cuts in both, it just means that it has teeth cut at both left and right angles across the same face.  If you file in the wrong direction it can and will destroy the teeth on the file, 99% of the time files only cut on the push stroke. 

The last files I ordered from that site ended up being Nicholson brand.  They used to be a very good name in files but that was before they move production to Mexico.  After that I am not sure if it is the quality of the steel or the quality of the hardening process but it doesn't seem to take as much to kill the edges on the teeth.  You will be fine for what you are doing but for me using files to sharpen my cold chisels, this is very detrimental to the usefulness of the file.

[berserkfan]

Melvang,

I am happy to buy full sized tools, but they seem to come full sized. AKA are so big, how can they be relied on to cut something as small as a grove in a Cherry plate hole for a switch? I was looking at a file of the kind that AGMurdercore had, but I simply couldn’t get anything with that diameter locally. Minimum diameter I could find was 8mm which is way, way bigger than our requirements and will leave a big hole.

Looking at your McMastercarr.com options, I will keep the file you recommended in mind. But I think it’s going to be a tough fit inside that Cherry hole. You don’t recommend a round chainsaw file like AGMurdercore was using, do you? A round file of course seems more appropriate for making semi-circular switch moddable holes.

And are you sure about the push stroke? PUSH, meaning hold the file and push away from me? Does this work for the majority of files? I was PULLING on the files from my new set. Maybe it was my crap technique?

The guy at the hardware shop actually told me all his files could be pushed and pulled, but I am suspicious of his competence. In Singapore most of the hardware shop folks are barely educated (I’ve ranted about being directed to candles when I asked for solder wick).

[Melvang]

Melvang,

I am happy to buy full sized tools, but they seem to come full sized. AKA are so big, how can they be relied on to cut something as small as a grove in a Cherry plate hole for a switch? I was looking at a file of the kind that AGMurdercore had, but I simply couldn’t get anything with that diameter locally. Minimum diameter I could find was 8mm which is way, way bigger than our requirements and will leave a big hole.

Looking at your McMastercarr.com options, I will keep the file you recommended in mind. But I think it’s going to be a tough fit inside that Cherry hole. You don’t recommend a round chainsaw file like AGMurdercore was using, do you? A round file of course seems more appropriate for making semi-circular switch moddable holes.

And are you sure about the push stroke? PUSH, meaning hold the file and push away from me? Does this work for the majority of files? I was PULLING on the files from my new set. Maybe it was my crap technique?

The guy at the hardware shop actually told me all his files could be pushed and pulled, but I am suspicious of his competence. In Singapore most of the hardware shop folks are barely educated (I’ve ranted about being directed to candles when I asked for solder wick).

The file that I quoted to is smaller than a cherry switch hole.  A chain saw file would work out pretty well but keep in mind those are designed for sharpening not removing large amounts of material.  I realize that shipping would probably be prohibitive and with that site not showing you what shipping costs are until after your card is charged I can understand not wanting to buy from there.

And yes most files work when pushing away from you.  Unless it is an abrasive style where there is actually an abrasive grit glued/bonded to it then yes it will work in both directions.  But for a standard file with metal teeth no,  it will only cut in one direction.

LOL about the solder wick.

If you need more clarification I can post some pics if you want.

[phoenix1234]

Melvang,

I am happy to buy full sized tools, but they seem to come full sized. AKA are so big, how can they be relied on to cut something as small as a grove in a Cherry plate hole for a switch? I was looking at a file of the kind that AGMurdercore had, but I simply couldn’t get anything with that diameter locally. Minimum diameter I could find was 8mm which is way, way bigger than our requirements and will leave a big hole.

Looking at your McMastercarr.com options, I will keep the file you recommended in mind. But I think it’s going to be a tough fit inside that Cherry hole. You don’t recommend a round chainsaw file like AGMurdercore was using, do you? A round file of course seems more appropriate for making semi-circular switch moddable holes.

And are you sure about the push stroke? PUSH, meaning hold the file and push away from me? Does this work for the majority of files? I was PULLING on the files from my new set. Maybe it was my crap technique?

The guy at the hardware shop actually told me all his files could be pushed and pulled, but I am suspicious of his competence. In Singapore most of the hardware shop folks are barely educated (I’ve ranted about being directed to candles when I asked for solder wick).

The Asaka set that I mentioned before is actually a "needle file set" but I miscalled it as a chisel set  .
As you can see, it is very small and usable for working with Cherry carbon steel plate.

I think you can get the similar sets as Melvang suggested. 
Or you can contact Element14 to order locally in Singapore
Here is one similar set from DURATOOL (Availability: Singapore stock 10 sets)
http://sg.element14.com/duratool/d00148/needle-file-set-6pc/dp/1447431

[AGmurdercore]

The BW plate is aluminum, the CM plates might be steel once and they will really be A LOT harder to grind. I hope you will find the solution!