Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy

[hashbaz]

What happened to this buy. The pics in the OP look great!

Legend fees are a killer.  That and three more or less concurrent full set group buys.

[lightsout714]

Do these require new legends? The font doesn't look that special.

[hashbaz]

Dolch font == Cherry font

[mkawa]

if you want to get this done you're going to need to get the mold specs from melissa, have your own set of molds milled at a very good machine shop with a very experienced operator, then send them to SP. unless someone who wants this done is actually that operator, this is going to be prohibitively expensive

HOWEVER! i would be in for a set that used dolch colors and the standard SP legends (maybe a couple of custom legends for modifiers or something) but didn't have all the kerning and centering weirdness of gb3

eta: actually it occurs to me that there may be CNC laser cutters that could make the molds.

[litster]

I would be surprised if SP would use molds of unknown origin in their machines, no matter what you tell them.

[mkawa]

ok then i don't think this is possible

[hashbaz]

New molds, are you nuts?  New legends is expensive enough.

[mkawa]

oh, yes, that's confusing. what i means was new legends molds. from the SP marketing documents it sounds like they make a brass mold for each legend that's like a simple 8x8 square with some holes in it or something. that's the one that sounds like it could be produced by someone other than SP without SP's weird requirements.

[hashbaz]

Ah ok.  I'm not really sure about the terminology and what it all means.  I thought you meant duplicating the Cherry profile, which is hundreds of dollars per key type I believe.

[IvanIvanovich]

I think we have a better chance of building a time machine and going back in time to Cherry corp and killing all the people that decided to discontinue doubleshots production.

[gimpster]

I think we have a better chance of building a time machine and going back in time to Cherry corp and killing all the people that decided to discontinue doubleshots production.

I've watched all of the Doctor Who episodes, it doesn't look that hard to make a TARDIS work...let's do it!

[jwaz]

I personally would rather do a thick PBT set of Dolch colors gray/dark gray with the sneaky HHKB-esque dye sub legends. New school Dolch steez!

SPs keycaps just don't seem to have the level of quality we need to justify the cost...

[gimpster]

That's like saying I've watched all the Dr. Who episodes so I should be able to go to bed with Amy Pond.
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I fail to see the flaw in that logic.

[gimpster]

I personally would rather do a thick PBT set of Dolch colors gray/dark gray with the sneaky HHKB-esque dye sub legends. New school Dolch steez!

SPs keycaps just don't seem to have the level of quality we need to justify the cost...

I'd be down for something like that, too. I prefer the feel of PBT to ABS. That said, you complain about the quality control of SP (and I'm certainly not defending them) but who do you think we would get to do them if not SP? Also, technically a dye-sub Dolch set would not look the same at all since you can only dye-sub to darker colors, which means it would need black text instead of white. It could still be a nice color combo, but it wouldn't really look very Dolch-ish.

[Nighted]

I like the colour scheme. Not too picky about the fonts. Just make this happen!

[lightsout714]

I like the colour scheme. Not too picky about the fonts. Just make this happen!

For real just pick a similar font and be done with it! I'd be in for one.

[jwaz]

I'd be down for something like that, too. I prefer the feel of PBT to ABS. That said, you complain about the quality control of SP (and I'm certainly not defending them) but who do you think we would get to do them if not SP? Also, technically a dye-sub Dolch set would not look the same at all since you can only dye-sub to darker colors, which means it would need black text instead of white. It could still be a nice color combo, but it wouldn't really look very Dolch-ish.

Yeah, Dark dye-sublimated legends like the HHKB.

The problem with double shots from Signature Plastics (and its not so much QC) is that SP have thin keycaps AND expensive legend setup costs. At the old prices I would do it. But no way at the new prices plus lame thin caps.

As for PBT I believe that would have to come through someone like Imsto or maybe through Devlin...


As for just doing it with the regular SP legends. No thanks. Look at R3 sets.

[lightsout714]

Yeah, Dark dye-sublimated legends like the HHKB.

The problem with double shots from Signature Plastics (and its not so much QC) is that SP have thin keycaps AND expensive legend setup costs. At the old prices I would do it. But no way at the new prices plus lame thin caps.

As for PBT I believe that would have to come through someone like Imsto or maybe through Devlin...


As for just doing it with the regular SP legends. No thanks. Look at R3 sets.

Well you could get something better then R3. I'm not a fan of the big centered letters.

[wongster]

Interested!

I like the Dolch colors and definitely like PBT over ABS. I'd prefer white legends, but whatever works for everyone. Make it happen please!

[gridlock]

What exactly is stopping us from making the dark HHKB style caps for cherry boards? If you don't mind me asking.

[mkawa]

i don't really see what's wrong with the SP molds (ie, thin caps). plus using their molds give us compatibility with all the DS gb sets we have going right now

and imsto's thick caps aren't really any cheaper than going with SP.

[hashbaz]

What exactly is stopping us from making the dark HHKB style caps for cherry boards? If you don't mind me asking.

Nothing, except it has nothing to do with Dolch keycaps which are two-toned white on grey with the Cherry font.

[jwaz]

Massive legend costz

[VladeK]

I want one set.

[JSchool]

Is this going to actually happen?  If so I'll have second thoughts about my Round 3 order in the R4 group buy.  Not that R4 is ever going to happen.  

[lightsout714]

Is this going to actually happen?  If so I'll have second thoughts about my Round 3 order in the R4 group buy.  Not that R4 is ever going to happen.  

It seems like no because of legend fees.

[hashbaz]

There does seems to be some interest in a Dolch-colored set with standard SP legends.  We could make that happen easily enough, but we would want to coordinate with tsangan and lysol.

[hazeluff]

There does seems to be some interest in a Dolch-colored set with standard SP legends.  We could make that happen easily enough, but we would want to coordinate with tsangan and lysol.

At the moment it's very overloaded with GBs...

Also a Dolch-colored set with SP legends would probably just kill this one outright...

[lightsout714]

There does seems to be some interest in a Dolch-colored set with standard SP legends.  We could make that happen easily enough, but we would want to coordinate with tsangan and lysol.

I'd be down for that. Probably. Red alert is at the top of my list. Hopefully it happens sooner then later.

[mkawa]

there's a huge backlog of GBs right now. cream cheese is coming up next, and then at least one of the round 4 GBs will need to run its course, etc... it's probably best to put this one the backburner.

[lightsout714]

there's a huge backlog of GBs right now. cream cheese is coming up next, and then at least one of the round 4 GBs will need to run its course, etc... it's probably best to put this one the backburner.

I don't really include RD.4 in this. Its kind of its own thing and looks like it will probably never happen. We'll see though.

[hashbaz]

Yeah, like I said we'd need to coordinate with the other full set buys.  It's probably best to keep this on ice until group buy madness settles down.

[jwaz]

If we replicate the Cherry legends well enough then it would be so worth the cost. But yeah, no hurry until we have a bit of a lull in the GBs and a definite guarantee on quality legends.


Wait... If we do the legends why shouldn't we do a massive GB with Cherry White/ Beige, Cherry Black and Cherry Dolch? (R5???)

[mkawa]

1) unless someone fronts a lot of money, you wouldn't get enough volume to keep costs low.

2) i don't think SP is going to be able to produce the legend molds you want, regardless of cost.

3) that many new complex legends is going to be a huge pain in the ass to proof, to mention working out kerning and other spacing issues. assume you're going to need to run every legend at least twice through their CNC and then on top of that the modifiers will need to be proofed at least once

[hashbaz]

Kerning won't be an issue with custom SVGs.  After my moogle buy we should have all the modifiers done.  It's a start.

[mkawa]

oh that's a good point. there will be spacing issues though.

[hashbaz]

oh that's a good point. there will be spacing issues though.

Yup.  I'm working on the new legends for the moogle buy now, and I got exact figures from Melissa about the legendable area of their keys vs. the total size of the key tops.  In theory it will allow me to be very precise.  I'm going to do a prototype Enter key as a test.  Once we get the spacing down for one key in each cluster, the rest will come for free.  F1-F12, the nav cluster, the letters, etc.

[litster]

How about this?  This community really need a new set of legends that is as close to Cherry as possible, for this group buy and for future group buys.  Since we have a number of group buys in motion now or will be very soon, would people be willing to start contributing to a GH/DT legend fund for every group buy moving forward?  $0.50 a moogle kit here, $1.00 a full set there.  A few group buys later we will have enough fund to create new legends that can be used for any keycaps we want to make in the future.  We already have a few of them from moogle kit group buys so we don't really have to make them all.

Obviously group buy organizers will need to agree to this and someone trustworthy will need to manage the legend fund pool.

Thoughts?

[hashbaz]

I like it.

[agor]

This is a great idea in my opionion.
Sad this would never happen for a German layout though.

[litster]

Cost for less demanding sets or add-on sets will cost more due to low volume.  If this is successful, we could keep the fund pool going to get legends created for keys in low volume sets.  You still will need enough people to order for that set though.

[hazeluff]

How about this?  This community really need a new set of legends that is as close to Cherry as possible, for this group buy and for future group buys.  Since we have a number of group buys in motion now or will be very soon, would people be willing to start contributing to a GH/DT legend fund for every group buy moving forward?  $0.50 a moogle kit here, $1.00 a full set there.  A few group buys later we will have enough fund to create new legends that can be used for any keycaps we want to make in the future.  We already have a few of them from moogle kit group buys so we don't really have to make them all.

Obviously group buy organizers will need to agree to this and someone trustworthy will need to manage the legend fund pool.

Thoughts?

I support this motion!

[biochem]

How about this?  This community really need a new set of legends that is as close to Cherry as possible, for this group buy and for future group buys.  Since we have a number of group buys in motion now or will be very soon, would people be willing to start contributing to a GH/DT legend fund for every group buy moving forward?  $0.50 a moogle kit here, $1.00 a full set there.  A few group buys later we will have enough fund to create new legends that can be used for any keycaps we want to make in the future.  We already have a few of them from moogle kit group buys so we don't really have to make them all.  Obviously group buy organizers will need to agree to this and someone trustworthy will need to manage the legend fund pool.  Thoughts?

 I like this proposal!

[litster]

If people think this is a good idea.  We will need a few things.

- the total cost to get legends made for the remaining keys that we don't have legends for.
- Need agreement from current GB organizers to add this to their cost, and send collected funds to the legend fund manager who will be the fund escrow.
- New GB organizers will need to be reminded about this effort and to support this
- Once we have enough fund, start a group buy that will use these new legends and get the legends made!
- Everyone is happy!

[tsangan]

If people think this is a good idea.  We will need a few things.

- the total cost to get legends made for the remaining keys that we don't have legends for.
- Need agreement from current GB organizers to add this to their cost, and send collected funds to the legend fund manager who will be the fund escrow.
- New GB organizers will need to be reminded about this effort and to support this
- Once we have enough fund, start a group buy that will use these new legends and get the legends made!
- Everyone is happy!

I like

We could probably raise this money really fast

[alaricljs]

I like this proposal!

I'd like to start by saying:  Thank you for freaking me out with your sig.  That subtle shade of blue had me rather concerned about the state of my monitor.

And onto the topic at hand...

Can I also recommend setting it up so that people can donate to this fund such that those who don't want to buy caps without this new font can step up to the plate as well.

[litster]

And onto the topic at hand...

Can I also recommend setting it up such that people can donate to this fund such that those who don't want to buy caps without this new font can step up to the plate as well.

Most definitely!  We are not going to stop people from contributing to the cause!

[tsangan]

I'd just reuse the OTD Korean dude's legends.

They just kept hammering on Melissa until it was done right.

This is why American Engineering is in such a decline btw.  Accepting mediocrity like bad kerning.

You still have to pay for the legend fees

[mkawa]

how much will legend fees be, 300 or so?

[tsangan]

how much will legend fees be, 300 or so?

Lowest it will be is $10 per legend, and that's the lowest. So we need basically everything besides the modifiers so rough count of 68 legends for a tenkeyless