Author Topic: Top row mod  (Read 2152 times)

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Offline asgeirtj

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Top row mod
« on: Thu, 13 August 2015, 15:22:54 »
I have an Octagon.  I have it because I need a board with the function row right over the number row which is very useful for Starcraft II.  Moreover, it's even better to have R0/A row keycaps so it's even easier to reach.  This gives me quite an edge in game.  However, my favorite caps are pbt dyesubs cherry profile and there are none such made with an R0 row.  This is my board right now, and I have to sully the board with some vortex oem caps (which are not good in my opinion).
 

(I have the dolch caps on to match with the top row, pbt dyesub is better than gmk abs imo)
So here goes my question: is it possible to do a mod where the top row is ascended a little bit so one can use R1/B row caps on them and have the elevation equivalent of R0/A row caps?  One thing that springs to mind would be to 3d print a stem extender, which would be put on the top of the stem.  Anyone have any technical knowledge as to know if that would be possible?  Or any other ideas?
Leopold FC900 w/ 67g Purple Zealios - Silver Duck Octagon w/ 62 Purple Zealios

Offline Steezus

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Re: Top row mod
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 13 August 2015, 15:53:41 »
I tried to quickly put together a mock-up of what the stem extender could be, I don't if it's possible but it makes sense to me.
I'm having a hard uploading it to GH for some reason so I'll just leave the imgur link, http://imgur.com/K6bUEiH

Offline asgeirtj

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Re: Top row mod
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 13 August 2015, 16:08:32 »
I tried to quickly put together a mock-up of what the stem extender could be, I don't if it's possible but it makes sense to me.
I'm having a hard uploading it to GH for some reason so I'll just leave the imgur link, http://imgur.com/K6bUEiH

Yeah that's actually just what I was thinking about! 
Leopold FC900 w/ 67g Purple Zealios - Silver Duck Octagon w/ 62 Purple Zealios

Offline Steezus

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Re: Top row mod
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 13 August 2015, 17:33:34 »
I tried to quickly put together a mock-up of what the stem extender could be, I don't if it's possible but it makes sense to me.
I'm having a hard uploading it to GH for some reason so I'll just leave the imgur link, http://imgur.com/K6bUEiH

Yeah that's actually just what I was thinking about!

I don't have any 3d printing skills but if somebody is able to make a, I assume, CAD file for a 3d printer than it should work out perfect. If I were you I would take some measurements of how much higher you wants the caps to be extended. The physical stem on the switch is about 2/16th of an inch in length and about 3/16th of an inch in width.

Offline quake4mhg

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Re: Top row mod
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 14 August 2015, 01:31:20 »
Stem extender! Interesting! could actuate faster? If someone could make a GB of it.

Offline asgeirtj

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Re: Top row mod
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 17 September 2015, 08:44:27 »
Does anyone have an idea what it would cost roughly to submit an autocad of this to shapeways and make them make some of these for me?
Leopold FC900 w/ 67g Purple Zealios - Silver Duck Octagon w/ 62 Purple Zealios

Offline asgeirtj

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Re: Top row mod
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 20 September 2015, 08:40:26 »
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u327e0b06-563a-4421-9fa2-bee26e0c9bf0

I've made this sketch.  I'm however at loss how to proceed to make into this: http://imgur.com/K6bUEiH.  Can anyone help me?
Leopold FC900 w/ 67g Purple Zealios - Silver Duck Octagon w/ 62 Purple Zealios

Offline neverused

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Re: Top row mod
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 20 September 2015, 12:24:21 »
Shapeways maybe a possible resource for fabrication.

Offline asgeirtj

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Re: Top row mod
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 05 October 2015, 15:46:21 »
OK so an update:

I collaborated with my engineer friend and he did a sketch for me in autocad, this is the result converted to sketchup:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=ub5ef03bd-fad5-4053-ae8f-69d77ee6c4fe&uploadsuccess=1

Not sure why the middle plate is missing, it was visible in autocad, I will try and amend this with him.

Considerations:

1.  Can anyone here certify that the dimensions are correct for the male and female connections?  We used http://i.imgur.com/K5kui2s.jpg for keycap hole dimensions but there didn't seem to be dimensions online for the mx stem dimensions but we used the dimensions from this https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?redirect=1&mid=81cf92a3e03098a5cc90be332989df6e&id=81cf92a3e03098a5cc90be332989df6e

2.  This is our idea of an extender but we are open to changes as we have really no idea what we're doing but during the designing these problems occured:

a. The middle layer is in 0.4mm in this prototype, really thin.  We don't know how precise a 3d printer is so we don't know if it's too small of a detail.  We also don't know how thick the middle layer has to be for the extender to be stable/usable, feedback on this would appreciated if anybody has any idea.

b.  the mininum extension is 3.6mm since that is the length of the stem/hole of the keycap.  If one would want to extend any less one would need to saw off the stem of the underlying switch and make the female of the extender shorter.  Or one could make the male of the extender shorter and put some filling in the hole of the keycap used, but I think that is a less attractive option.  However I strongly suspect that a 3.6mm extension is too long, what I really need to know is what the difference in height is between E and F profile keycaps, I really can't read it out of these pics from cherry, pls help  :confused::
http://cherrycorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/12.gif

Really hope someone can help me with these :)


Leopold FC900 w/ 67g Purple Zealios - Silver Duck Octagon w/ 62 Purple Zealios

Offline Steezus

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Re: Top row mod
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 06 October 2015, 11:57:25 »
OK so an update:

I collaborated with my engineer friend and he did a sketch for me in autocad, this is the result converted to sketchup:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=ub5ef03bd-fad5-4053-ae8f-69d77ee6c4fe&uploadsuccess=1

Not sure why the middle plate is missing, it was visible in autocad, I will try and amend this with him.

Considerations:

1.  Can anyone here certify that the dimensions are correct for the male and female connections?  We used http://i.imgur.com/K5kui2s.jpg for keycap hole dimensions but there didn't seem to be dimensions online for the mx stem dimensions but we used the dimensions from this https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?redirect=1&mid=81cf92a3e03098a5cc90be332989df6e&id=81cf92a3e03098a5cc90be332989df6e

2.  This is our idea of an extender but we are open to changes as we have really no idea what we're doing but during the designing these problems occured:

a. The middle layer is in 0.4mm in this prototype, really thin.  We don't know how precise a 3d printer is so we don't know if it's too small of a detail.  We also don't know how thick the middle layer has to be for the extender to be stable/usable, feedback on this would appreciated if anybody has any idea.

b.  the mininum extension is 3.6mm since that is the length of the stem/hole of the keycap.  If one would want to extend any less one would need to saw off the stem of the underlying switch and make the female of the extender shorter.  Or one could make the male of the extender shorter and put some filling in the hole of the keycap used, but I think that is a less attractive option.  However I strongly suspect that a 3.6mm extension is too long, what I really need to know is what the difference in height is between E and F profile keycaps, I really can't read it out of these pics from cherry, pls help  :confused::
http://cherrycorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/12.gif

Really hope someone can help me with these :)

The CAD drawing seems accurate enough, at this point I think it would be best to move no to trial and error stage. I don't know if you have access to a 3D printer but if you do I would print a few out with different materials to see how they hold up. I believe 3D printers now-a-days should have the capability of printing at 0.4mm but it would depends on the material used and a printer with such capabilities wouldn't be a cheap(<$1000) printer. I have not done too much research the past summer on 3D printers so my knowledge may be a bit out dated. Best of luck to you, I'm here to help out as much as I can. If everything goes well this could turn out to be a nice GB.

Offline asgeirtj

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Re: Top row mod
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 23 November 2015, 15:16:57 »
I just had an idea for this.  Just cut the stem off a crap switch and superglue it on the stem on the switch you want to extent.  Super scrappy but maybe a solution?
Leopold FC900 w/ 67g Purple Zealios - Silver Duck Octagon w/ 62 Purple Zealios

Offline dr_habu

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Re: Top row mod
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 23 November 2015, 15:27:27 »
Keep in mind that with 3d printing the material shrinkage will be noticeable. I imagine that if the dimensions are correct on your stl file, then after 3d printing the stem will end up being loose, and the "receptacle" part will be too tight. On top of that the tolerances will heavily depend on the resolution of the 3d printer used.
You can easily do it if you have access to an actual 3d printer because that means that you'll be able to assess the shrinkage and correct for it by scaling the model, but otherwise it's a gamble.

Offline Steezus

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Re: Top row mod
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 23 November 2015, 15:37:48 »
I just had an idea for this.  Just cut the stem off a crap switch and superglue it on the stem on the switch you want to extent.  Super scrappy but maybe a solution?

It could work but if it isn't 100% straight then your caps will look all funky at weird angles.

Offline asgeirtj

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Re: Top row mod
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 17 August 2016, 10:28:00 »
Here is the file which I 3d printed out of.  The hole is super tight though, it's so tight that you almost need a hammer to put it on, any idea what I'm doing wrong?
Leopold FC900 w/ 67g Purple Zealios - Silver Duck Octagon w/ 62 Purple Zealios

Offline asgeirtj

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Re: Top row mod
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 03 April 2017, 19:43:36 »
Anyone know where I can find the precise dimensions of the hole in a keycap? So I can 3d print a proper extender.
Leopold FC900 w/ 67g Purple Zealios - Silver Duck Octagon w/ 62 Purple Zealios

Offline asgeirtj

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Re: Top row mod
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 10 October 2017, 16:48:11 »
I'm going to give this another go, however I can't seem to find the dimensions for the stem on a cherry mx switch anywhere? Does anyone know where I can find that?
Leopold FC900 w/ 67g Purple Zealios - Silver Duck Octagon w/ 62 Purple Zealios

Offline TalkingTree

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Re: Top row mod
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 11 October 2017, 03:12:35 »
According to this image the keycap socket is 1.35 mm wide by 4.10 mm long. I guess you could try and make a stem 0.05 or 0.1 mm smaller.

My projects: Skipad, Toad.

Offline slot demon

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Re: Top row mod
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 11 October 2017, 04:05:50 »

Offline asgeirtj

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Re: Top row mod
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 12 October 2017, 15:02:32 »
Have you considered this: https://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX-M8_Adapter

I did not know this existed, but that would mean I'd have to use linears right?
Leopold FC900 w/ 67g Purple Zealios - Silver Duck Octagon w/ 62 Purple Zealios

Offline slot demon

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Re: Top row mod
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 16 October 2017, 00:38:34 »
Yes.