Author Topic: Acoustic vs Digital Piano.  (Read 3303 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13565
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Acoustic vs Digital Piano.
« on: Mon, 14 December 2020, 22:03:51 »
Anyone decide to pick up Piano during the Apocalypse ?

Acoustic:

Pros_

- Uncompressed sound
- Real Sympathetic resonance, (every string movement impacts every other string)
- Long Keystick action.

Cons_

- Heavy
- Tuning ($200 per year)
- Regulation cost ($500 every 3-5 years)
- Too loud (80-95db)

Digital:


Pros_
- Movable
- No tuning/Regulation cost
- Multiple instrument sounds.
- Volume control
- Computer connection

Cons_
- 2 to 4 second sound samples, 1-2 second looped decay samples
- Compressed sound
- Sympathetic resonance is very fake
- Keysticks are short except on extremely expensive models.

Offline yui

  • Posts: 1082
  • Location: 127.0.0.1 (in azerty)
Re: Acoustic vs Digital Piano.
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 15 December 2020, 01:20:38 »
modern digital i think are much better than they used to, and some (like me) want that old fm synth sound, but the old Yamaha DX7 are still quite a bit out of my budget :)
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline ergonaut

  • Posts: 88
Re: Acoustic vs Digital Piano.
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 15 December 2020, 03:27:07 »
What is regulation cost?

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13565
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Acoustic vs Digital Piano.
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 15 December 2020, 09:06:08 »
What is regulation cost?

The acoustic piano KEYBED action is 1000s of little moving parts. There's alot of wood, there's alot of soft stuff like felt and buckskin.    These change shape over time, especially on new built pianos, so the action goes out-of-regulation similar to the strings becoming higher or lower pitch.   The felt compresses over time, the wood changes with the season, the hammers harden a bit, etc etc.

The regulation cost is the piano tuner (most do regulation, but some don't), changing the parameters in the action back to its maximum potential, (Lubrication, responsiveness, repetition, touch-weight, touch height/offset, let-off)
He basically fiddles with the tiny parts for ~3-7 hours depending on how out of regulation it is. It's labor intensive, and requires a delicate touch..

You've probably never heard of regulation cost, because most owners cheap out on it. but it MUST BE DONE, like monitor-calibration.  If you leave a piano out of regulation too long and continue playing it, it CAN damage the parts.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13565
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Acoustic vs Digital Piano.
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 15 December 2020, 09:30:37 »
modern digital i think are much better than they used to, and some (like me) want that old fm synth sound, but the old Yamaha DX7 are still quite a bit out of my budget :)

Synthwork is more practical these days in software, because that's how you do all the recording stuff anyway.

Offline ergonaut

  • Posts: 88
Re: Acoustic vs Digital Piano.
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 15 December 2020, 10:27:22 »
Thanks for the explanation. I had indeed never heard about that, but I also never owned an acoustic piano.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13565
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Acoustic vs Digital Piano.
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 15 December 2020, 11:20:28 »
Thanks for the explanation. I had indeed never heard about that, but I also never owned an acoustic piano.

Acoustic ownership is not very practical nowadays, digital is pretttty convincing.  Not as dystopian future kewl though.

I'd only recommend an Acoustic if the owner is tech savy enough to do his own tuning/regulation

Offline Olumin

  • Posts: 209
  • Location: "...that famous Texas part of Hamburg"
  • "Guy walks into a doctor's office..."
Re: Acoustic vs Digital Piano.
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 15 December 2020, 13:47:41 »
This is like asking a watchmaker whether to put a quartz regulated movement into the case of an antique wall regulator clock, instead of refurbishing the original movement.

Sure, the quartz will archive higher precision compared to the run-down or potentially broken weight driven clockwork from the early 20th century, and sure it will cost next to nothing and install with no maintenance cost (just replace when broken) and might look the same from the outside.

But If I was that watchmaker, I would probably kindly ask you to leave my store. That’s of cause assuming the movement is worth servicing/repairing in the first place.

A quartz watch is many times more accurate and convenient than your average mechanical watch, but if you are thinking about getting an automatic, it’s not really about that is it?

There will be a day on which a keyboard will be able to match a piano In every way...

But today is not that day. Or tomorrow for that matter...

It all depends on what you want. Do you just want a convenient and functional instrument to practice and learn on? Then yes, by all means get yourself a keyboard.

Or do you want a piano? And if you are asking yourself that question, you want a piano.

« Last Edit: Tue, 15 December 2020, 13:52:00 by Olumin »

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13565
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Acoustic vs Digital Piano.
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 15 December 2020, 13:54:47 »

Or do you want a piano? And if you are asking yourself that question, you want a piano. [/size][/color]


Tp4 Internal systems, there's a great deal of dissonance.

Pianos kill ALOT of trees. It requires high quality, wasteful cuts of wood. 

Then there's the consumer. Even if most can afford the initial price of a piano,  they won't put out for the regular tuning and regulation, both of which are REQUIRED to keep the piano in top-form/ not rotting/ deteriorating.

Truly deserving piano owners are far in between, they have to be reasonably wealthy but also sensitive to the Deep-Responsibility of Piano Ownership, it's a very fragile mechanical animal that only exist at great cost to nature and the builders.

Offline Olumin

  • Posts: 209
  • Location: "...that famous Texas part of Hamburg"
  • "Guy walks into a doctor's office..."
Re: Acoustic vs Digital Piano.
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 15 December 2020, 14:53:43 »
Nobody deserves to own a piano, the question is merely one of desire and budget.

It is very much the same with clocks and luxury watches. While many can afford the initial price of a clock or nice watch, they are often then astonished that it will cost 500$ to overhaul their regulator, or 800$ to service their Rolex. If one understands what goes into the manufacturing and maintenance of such things like timepieces or pianos for that matter, it often becomes a lot easier to justify the price of upkeep.

Many clock makers these days actually use old wood, initially part of antique furniture, to furnish the cases of their clocks. This is because many types of wood today, like mahogany, are exclusively of low quality. Perhaps some piano manufacturers do the same?

A piano is something that, which care and regular maintenance, will last many decades or even over a century. I think one should not start to worry about the damage to nature a piano does. If you start thinking this way, you could never enjoy anything. The amount of wood production dedicated to pianos or other wooden instruments is minuscule compared to the construction or paper industry, even tho their use of wood might be more efficient overall with less waste. This is splitting hairs.



« Last Edit: Tue, 15 December 2020, 14:59:12 by Olumin »

Offline Kavik

  • Posts: 819
Re: Acoustic vs Digital Piano.
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 16 December 2020, 13:12:48 »
This old Steinway has been at my parents' house as long as I can remember, covered with a blanket with stuff stacked on it that whole time. I've never heard a note played on it, and taking this picture to help my mom try to sell it was the only time I've seen it uncovered (11 years ago). According to my mom it's from the 1800s (serial number suggests 1865). It would probably take more money to fix it up than it's worth.

258116-0
Maybe they're waiting for gasmasks and latex to get sexy again.

The world has become a weird place.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13565
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Acoustic vs Digital Piano.
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 16 December 2020, 13:23:32 »
Yea, the US market for pianos has shrunk dramatically as people have taken to other cheaper rapid gratification hobbies.

Offline korrelate

  • Posts: 407
  • Location: Virginia
  • iubeo stultum esse libenter
Re: Acoustic vs Digital Piano.
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 17 December 2020, 06:30:16 »
This old Steinway has been at my parents' house as long as I can remember, covered with a blanket with stuff stacked on it that whole time. I've never heard a note played on it, and taking this picture to help my mom try to sell it was the only time I've seen it uncovered (11 years ago). According to my mom it's from the 1800s (serial number suggests 1865). It would probably take more money to fix it up than it's worth.

(Attachment Link)

Man, I'll tell you what, though... I bet that when that thing's fixed up  it sounds gorgeous. Maybe fixing it up isn't as costly as you imagine. In any event, I would at least try to get an idea of what kind of sound it generates. Many modern pianos have tinny sound that's irritating. Some old ones do too, so there's that. But one of the most beautiful sounding pianos I've ever encountered was this hideous eggshell white grand piano that sounded rich - like full of timbre but if I would have had the space for it at the time I would have paid twice what they were asking. My point to all this? Just a reminder: don't assume... until you ask someone to take a look at it (get an estimate) you don't know for certain. I'd think you'd at least like to know whether or not it sounds "good" before you pitch it.

Topre REALFORCE

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13565
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Acoustic vs Digital Piano.
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 17 December 2020, 11:19:18 »
Man, I'll tell you what, though... I bet that when that thing's fixed up  it sounds gorgeous. Maybe fixing it up isn't as costly as you imagine. In any event, I would at least try to get an idea of what kind of sound it generates. Many modern pianos have tinny sound that's irritating. Some old ones do too, so there's that. But one of the most beautiful sounding pianos I've ever encountered was this hideous eggshell white grand piano that sounded rich - like full of timbre but if I would have had the space for it at the time I would have paid twice what they were asking. My point to all this? Just a reminder: don't assume... until you ask someone to take a look at it (get an estimate) you don't know for certain. I'd think you'd at least like to know whether or not it sounds "good" before you pitch it.

Alot of the wood they used to use are endangered / heavily regulated.  I wouldn't say it'd sound _better_ than a modern piano, that's unlikely.  But they will sound good.

As for modern pianos sounding tinny, they can alter that through voicing. So a very bright yamaha can be voiced to mellow out.

Offline Kavik

  • Posts: 819
Re: Acoustic vs Digital Piano.
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 29 December 2020, 14:27:26 »
How do we listen to these sweet TP4 tunes? Where's the tp4tissue Soundcloud?
Maybe they're waiting for gasmasks and latex to get sexy again.

The world has become a weird place.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13565
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Acoustic vs Digital Piano.
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 29 December 2020, 15:46:20 »
How do we listen to these sweet TP4 tunes? Where's the tp4tissue Soundcloud?

2 Shy


Offline Shapey Fiend

  • Posts: 141
  • Location: Ireland
Re: Acoustic vs Digital Piano.
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 29 December 2020, 16:02:06 »
A real piano sounds way better. If you grew up with people played and are going to use it then it makes sense. I used date a musician and she was part of a big family of Irish trad musicians so it was getting used constantly. They were writing music and recording albums with loads of people as well. Do many people get real use out of them though?

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13565
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Acoustic vs Digital Piano.
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 29 December 2020, 16:11:06 »
I agree acoustics blow away the 1990s yamahas keyboards,  but the later 2010 and up are pretty darn convincing.   Main barrier was processors and rom cost.

Offline korrelate

  • Posts: 407
  • Location: Virginia
  • iubeo stultum esse libenter
Re: Acoustic vs Digital Piano.
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 01 January 2021, 15:31:58 »
Man, I'll tell you what, though... I bet that when that thing's fixed up  it sounds gorgeous. Maybe fixing it up isn't as costly as you imagine. In any event, I would at least try to get an idea of what kind of sound it generates. Many modern pianos have tinny sound that's irritating. Some old ones do too, so there's that. But one of the most beautiful sounding pianos I've ever encountered was this hideous eggshell white grand piano that sounded rich - like full of timbre but if I would have had the space for it at the time I would have paid twice what they were asking. My point to all this? Just a reminder: don't assume... until you ask someone to take a look at it (get an estimate) you don't know for certain. I'd think you'd at least like to know whether or not it sounds "good" before you pitch it.

Alot of the wood they used to use are endangered / heavily regulated.  I wouldn't say it'd sound _better_ than a modern piano, that's unlikely.  But they will sound good.

As for modern pianos sounding tinny, they can alter that through voicing. So a very bright yamaha can be voiced to mellow out.



That's a very interesting thing to know. Cheers & Thanks TP4T!

Topre REALFORCE

Offline yqqdrasil

  • Posts: 48
Re: Acoustic vs Digital Piano.
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 01 January 2021, 18:23:26 »
I don't know **** about pianos but we have one of those old Yamaha keyboards and some old piano. My father lost one of his fingers about 5-6 years ago and stopped playing the guitar and piano.

He always preferred the sound of acoustics though - guitar and piano. The piano has been collecting dust, he wants to get it repaired/tuned but it costs a lot and he knows he'll never use it anyways.