Apoxie? Kneadatite? Sculpt material help

[Komatoz]

Hello all!

My sister and I have been working on sculpting but we find ourselves constantly scrapping our sculpts because they either crack easily, dry easily, or just plain suck.

So far we have tried Sculpey (from walmart) and a few other crappy ones (all from walmart)

Also, our oven broke which means we cant bake either :/


Was looking at Apoxie and Kneadatite but I wasn't sure which would be good for DETAIL work and wont dry/crack much.

Was thinking of getting this Kneadatite: https://www.amazon.com/Kneadatite-Yellow-Epoxy-Putty-Green/dp/B00MQ7EHHC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488111592&sr=8-1&keywords=Kneadatite

Any suggestions? :O

[Findecanor]

The epoxy-based clays/putties are quite sticky from the epoxy, but will smoothen with water, you will constantly want to dip your tools in water. They won't crack by themselves but you will get only about an hour or so of working time before you will notice that they start to harden.
I am in Europe and we can get Milliput and Tamiya's epoxy putty but not Apoxie Sculpt. I have seen several accounts of Apoxie being somewhat nicer to work with.
Whatever you do, don't use "plumber's epoxy" from a hardware store - it is not made for sculpting and may have a smell.

I have heard several accounts that Sculpey could go bad over time. I once got a large pack of Sculpey (original formulation) that was total crap - did not hold up at all, and I suspect that it wasn't just the variety but that it had been sitting on the store shelf for too many years. Polymer clay is based on PVC with plasticizer to make it soft, and I guess that it crumbled because the latter had evaporated through the plastic bag or something.
I have had better luck with smaller packs of Sculpey III.

Have you tried any of the other major polymer clays such as Fimo or Cernit?

BTW, I have heard about people baking sculpey with a heat gun.. but I find that kinda hazardous and random.

[SKD]

I use monsterclay and some people use CX5 clay. Only problem with these is you can't keep the original as a master as you can't bake these solid. You'd have to cast one first then use that as the master.

[Komatoz]

The epoxy-based clays/putties are quite sticky from the epoxy, but will smoothen with water, you will constantly want to dip your tools in water. They won't crack by themselves but you will get only about an hour or so of working time before you will notice that they start to harden.
I am in Europe and we can get Milliput and Tamiya's epoxy putty but not Apoxie Sculpt. I have seen several accounts of Apoxie being somewhat nicer to work with.
Whatever you do, don't use "plumber's epoxy" from a hardware store - it is not made for sculpting and may have a smell.

I have heard several accounts that Sculpey could go bad over time. I once got a large pack of Sculpey (original formulation) that was total crap - did not hold up at all, and I suspect that it wasn't just the variety but that it had been sitting on the store shelf for too many years. Polymer clay is based on PVC with plasticizer to make it soft, and I guess that it crumbled because the latter had evaporated through the plastic bag or something.
I have had better luck with smaller packs of Sculpey III.

Have you tried any of the other major polymer clays such as Fimo or Cernit?

BTW, I have heard about people baking sculpey with a heat gun.. but I find that kinda hazardous and random.

Baking sculpey with a heat gun doesnt really sound like a good idea...

Ah, an hour might be too short, hmm, but still it sounds like its a bit more closer to oil based clay while polymer clay seems to be more like water based clay.

Ah okay, perhaps I should give Apoxie a shot.

I don't know, I seem to have a similar problem as you when it comes to the polymer clay I got. It seems to keep getting more and more crumbly as the days go by :/

I didnt know about any more than the sculpey brand so havent tried those two.

I use monsterclay and some people use CX5 clay. Only problem with these is you can't keep the original as a master as you can't bake these solid. You'd have to cast one first then use that as the master.

I do not quite understand. So does that mean those clay doesnt solidify at all? o.O

[hadekele]

The epoxy-based clays/putties are quite sticky from the epoxy, but will smoothen with water, you will constantly want to dip your tools in water. They won't crack by themselves but you will get only about an hour or so of working time before you will notice that they start to harden.
I am in Europe and we can get Milliput and Tamiya's epoxy putty but not Apoxie Sculpt. I have seen several accounts of Apoxie being somewhat nicer to work with.
Whatever you do, don't use "plumber's epoxy" from a hardware store - it is not made for sculpting and may have a smell.

I have heard several accounts that Sculpey could go bad over time. I once got a large pack of Sculpey (original formulation) that was total crap - did not hold up at all, and I suspect that it wasn't just the variety but that it had been sitting on the store shelf for too many years. Polymer clay is based on PVC with plasticizer to make it soft, and I guess that it crumbled because the latter had evaporated through the plastic bag or something.
I have had better luck with smaller packs of Sculpey III.

Have you tried any of the other major polymer clays such as Fimo or Cernit?

BTW, I have heard about people baking sculpey with a heat gun.. but I find that kinda hazardous and random.

Baking sculpey with a heat gun doesnt really sound like a good idea...

Ah, an hour might be too short, hmm, but still it sounds like its a bit more closer to oil based clay while polymer clay seems to be more like water based clay.

Ah okay, perhaps I should give Apoxie a shot.

I don't know, I seem to have a similar problem as you when it comes to the polymer clay I got. It seems to keep getting more and more crumbly as the days go by :/

I didnt know about any more than the sculpey brand so havent tried those two.

I use monsterclay and some people use CX5 clay. Only problem with these is you can't keep the original as a master as you can't bake these solid. You'd have to cast one first then use that as the master.

I do not quite understand. So does that mean those clay doesnt solidify at all? o.O

I've went over a small section of some sculpey firm with a heat gun, turned it into slightly hard plastic. I seem OK.  Haha,  haven't had to do it since. I don't bake my keycaps as they'll melt, so when I cast, I lose the master. If you sculpt on pbt, you won't have thus problem. I love the texture of sculpy firm.

I ordered some apoxie online, I think it'll be nicer to work with if you sculpt in sections.I'll keep you updated.

[tobsn]

known trick: use apoxie and mix it with green stuff ~1:1. this way apoxie gets more elastic but still hardens like apoxie and not like pure green stuff.


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[sinusoid]

@tobsn,
mixing resins of different chemical compositions may lead to chemical reaction and toxic fumes. Wouldn't do that myself.

@Komatoz,
http://www.jaedworks.com/clayspot/polyclay-faq/mixing.html
Tried different brands of clay? The one you've chosen might be the worst possible. I think it's normally used for volume buildup, not detailing.

If you want to cast these though, there are a lot of options. You have oil based clays and waxes of all sorts. They are perfect for sculpting, you can regulate their properties with heat, and can give them nice surface finish. Then drop them into a mould and make casts from that.
http://www.deviantart.com/art/McGregor-Kenobi-sculpt-93287473
Look at the size of the thing to get the idea of details waxes are capable of.

[tobsn]

mixing resins of different chemical compositions may lead to chemical reaction and toxic fumes. Wouldn't do that myself.

as I said, it's a commonly used way to strengthen green stuff or soften apoxie. even if you google it you get tons of results from model makers, from amateurs to professionals who mix them together for better results.

fyi, neither green stuff nor apoxie are toxic. both are certified non-toxic.

[Findecanor]

Epoxy resin (which is what these are based on) is definitely toxic if you ingest it and known to be able to cause cancer if you do. I am not sure about long-term exposure to your fingers though ...

It is also known to be an irritant in some way to some people and it is therefore recommended that you use gloves with it.

[sinusoid]

@tobsn,
I'm not doing that, and not recommending that, unless I see proper safety research/chemical reaction chain. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. People do a lot of weird things, and popularity doesn't make them any more legitimate: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=free+energy

You can approximate the effect by using a known epoxy or polyurethane and adding a filler of proper particle diameter size(s). You have full control over the composition, its thickness, hardness, and setting times. That's how those putties are made. Just pick the right kind of resin, preferably with a 30+ minutes lifetime. You can chill epoxy to get more time. Don't chill PU below room temp, condensation will destroy it (more than it will destroy epoxy anyway)

@Findecanor
Epoxy is considered safe when hardened in a lot of cases, especially the modern epoxies, manufactured to contemporary safety standards. Unhardened compounds are toxic. Mixing one epoxy with another, or any other non-inert chemical for that matter, may influence its setting properties, and is a recipe for trouble imho.

[hadekele]

I've been mixing some sculpey firm with apoxie to firm up the apoxie.

Hardens just fine.  I'm sure there's nothing dangerous going on when I mix em.

[Komatoz]

@tobsn,
mixing resins of different chemical compositions may lead to chemical reaction and toxic fumes. Wouldn't do that myself.

@Komatoz,
http://www.jaedworks.com/clayspot/polyclay-faq/mixing.html
Tried different brands of clay? The one you've chosen might be the worst possible. I think it's normally used for volume buildup, not detailing.

If you want to cast these though, there are a lot of options. You have oil based clays and waxes of all sorts. They are perfect for sculpting, you can regulate their properties with heat, and can give them nice surface finish. Then drop them into a mould and make casts from that.
http://www.deviantart.com/art/McGregor-Kenobi-sculpt-93287473
Look at the size of the thing to get the idea of details waxes are capable of.

Wow thank you for that!!

I decided to give Kneadatite a try and so far it seems pretty good for me.

But holy cow that looks amazing. I have tried working with water based clay before in an art class, but never got to try oil based clay. I heard and seen of how amazing it works. But would it be suitable for keycap sculpting?

If not though, in general, I really wanna give oil clay a try for regular/bigger sculpting (not keycaps)...not that im good at sculpting in general.. x-x

As for wax, I never tried that at all before :O