I'm REALLY trying to like Topre...

[digi]

Tp what are the hard facts on Cherry Silvers?? Are they ok??

[tp4tissue]

Tp what are the hard facts on Cherry Silvers?? Are they ok??

The shorter the travel distance, the greater the probability that a Simultaneous keypress could be successfully timed.


That is why Fighting game buttons have such short travel..


That is the only real practical difference.


However, To a High lvl player,  he's not going to drop combos from that..

he's going to drop combos because he ate too many chili dogs, and forgot to take his blood pressure medicine..   AKA Justin Wonging it.

[digi]

Tp what are the hard facts on Cherry Silvers?? Are they ok??

The shorter the travel distance, the greater the probability that a Simultaneous keypress could be successfully timed.


That is why Fighting game buttons have such short travel..


That is the only real practical difference.


However, To a High lvl player,  he's not going to drop combos from that..

he's going to drop combos because he ate too many chili dogs, and forgot to take his blood pressure medicine..   AKA Justin Wonging it.

Knew it!!! TY!

[iLLucionist]

Tp what are the hard facts on Cherry Silvers?? Are they ok??

The shorter the travel distance, the greater the probability that a Simultaneous keypress could be successfully timed.


That is why Fighting game buttons have such short travel..


That is the only real practical difference.


However, To a High lvl player,  he's not going to drop combos from that..

he's going to drop combos because he ate too many chili dogs, and forgot to take his blood pressure medicine..   AKA Justin Wonging it.

TAP TAP TAP. No blood pressure medicine lowers your blood pressure when playing osu.. It's wild.

[drewafx]

.

[tp4tissue]

Topre analog keyboard. Available in Japan.
Sure is more technologically advanced than simple on/off mechanical switches of 18th century...

I'm not against analog controls hitting the board, but it almost certainly makes no sense to use cup rubber here..


We are discussing the flaws of rubber cups..

[Severe]

I think what some of the anti Topre crew forget is that the Topre is still a good switch whether you like to type on it or not. No switch is flawless.

Regular rubber dome= Toyota
Topre= Lexus

Essentially the same thing, but the lexus is significantly upgraded in styling, performance, and luxury look and feel. but yes, at it's heart it's still a toyota that you paid a lot of money for.

But Lexus drivers don't care because they like the car.

Make sense?

[yuktsi]

I think what some of the anti Topre crew forget is that the Topre is still a good switch whether you like to type on it or not. No switch is flawless.

Regular rubber dome= Toyota
Topre= Lexus

Essentially the same thing, but the lexus is significantly upgraded in styling, performance, and luxury look and feel. but yes, at it's heart it's still a toyota that you paid a lot of money for.

But Lexus drivers don't care because they like the car.

Make sense?

Jokrik just modded my Toyota to Lexus, I really like it.
End of story 

[dante]

I've recently been reeducated.  If you like Topre then great.  If you don't, well that's okay as well.

It's all about personal preference in the end.

[daerid]

To each their own. I absolutely love my 55g 87U. But it's currently not my daily driver. I don't think I will ever have an "end-game", because changing out keyboards and switch types frequently helps keep any RSI from flaring up.

Use what you like. There's no inherent reason you should like Topre. Many do. Many don't. Love the keyboard that works for you <3

[iLLucionist]

To each their own. I absolutely love my 55g 87U. But it's currently not my daily driver. I don't think I will ever have an "end-game", because changing out keyboards and switch types frequently helps keep any RSI from flaring up.

Use what you like. There's no inherent reason you should like Topre. Many do. Many don't. Love the keyboard that works for you <3

I use multiple and switch between them, rotate them. MX Cherry all the way for gaming, Topre for typing. HHKB at the office currently, 87U 55g at home, alongside my KUL ES-87 with clears.

[_rubik]

Regular rubber dome= Toyota
Topre= Lexus

I think this is the best way to describe it. Its a luxury rubber dome. Some people like a luxury rubber dome. Saying 'liking topre is wrong' is saying 'your opinion is wrong' which is in itself... an opinion. So it's just a reflexive argument. Type on what you like. Done.

[quasistellar]

Topre analog keyboard. Available in Japan.
Sure is more technologically advanced than simple on/off mechanical switches of 18th century...

I'm not against analog controls hitting the board, but it almost certainly makes no sense to use cup rubber here..


We are discussing the flaws of rubber cups..

Yeah I love Topre, but something linear like an MX Black or Red would have been ideal for analog, I would think. 

[tp4tissue]

Regular rubber dome= Toyota
Topre= Lexus

I think this is the best way to describe it. Its a luxury rubber dome. Some people like a luxury rubber dome. Saying 'liking topre is wrong' is saying 'your opinion is wrong' which is in itself... an opinion. So it's just a reflexive argument. Type on what you like. Done.

Heck no.. 

Rubber dome = PT Cruiser

Topre = PT Cruiser with Flame decal..


BOTH = FAIL.

[Severe]

Regular rubber dome= Toyota
Topre= Lexus

I think this is the best way to describe it. Its a luxury rubber dome. Some people like a luxury rubber dome. Saying 'liking topre is wrong' is saying 'your opinion is wrong' which is in itself... an opinion. So it's just a reflexive argument. Type on what you like. Done.

Heck no.. 

Rubber dome = PT Cruiser

Topre = PT Cruiser with Flame decal..


BOTH = FAIL.

I think i'd rather drive a PT cruise with flame decals and spinner hubcaps than use MX Blues

it's all relative

[iLLucionist]

Regular rubber dome= Toyota
Topre= Lexus

I think this is the best way to describe it. Its a luxury rubber dome. Some people like a luxury rubber dome. Saying 'liking topre is wrong' is saying 'your opinion is wrong' which is in itself... an opinion. So it's just a reflexive argument. Type on what you like. Done.

Heck no.. 

Rubber dome = PT Cruiser

Topre = PT Cruiser with Flame decal..


BOTH = FAIL.

I somehow get the slightest impression you might not like Topre..

[tp4tissue]

Heck no.. 

Rubber dome = PT Cruiser

Topre = PT Cruiser with Flame decal..


BOTH = FAIL.

I somehow get the slightest impression you might not like Topre..

Welll... fail is a little harsh..   I agree..    but we've had a tramendous influx of mis-information in the form of Topre- Zealotry.

So It's important that we educate prospective keyboard enthusiasts that Topre may be an OK keyboard,   but it VERY MUCH has Flaws, overpriced for what you get,    and thoroughly devoid of any Magic as experienced solely by the Weeb-Cult..

[iLLucionist]

Heck no.. 

Rubber dome = PT Cruiser

Topre = PT Cruiser with Flame decal..


BOTH = FAIL.

I somehow get the slightest impression you might not like Topre..

Welll... fail is a little harsh..   I agree..    but we've had a tramendous influx of mis-information in the form of Topre- Zealotry.

So It's important that we educate prospective keyboard enthusiasts that Topre may be an OK keyboard,   but it VERY MUCH has Flaws, overpriced for what you get,    and thoroughly devoid of any Magic as experienced solely by the Weeb-Cult..

Yeah, that's true. But it must also not be understated that the FEEL of the Topre is quite different to the feel of MX Cherry. It's not that if the quality is less / more variation / questionable for Topre that all of a sudden AS A SWITCH the feel is also bad.

People tend to confuse bad / worse build quality with worse feel as well.

Just sayin'

[Elrick]

Yeah, that's true. But it must also not be understated that the FEEL of the Topre is quite different to the feel of MX Cherry. It's not that if the quality is less / more variation / questionable for Topre that all of a sudden AS A SWITCH the feel is also bad.

People tend to confuse bad / worse build quality with worse feel as well.

If you have a REAL love of all keyboards that use either Thorpies, Cherry's, Romer-Gs, Matias, ALPs, Buckling Springs, Scissor-switches and a host of decent membrane-based keyboards you will appreciate all of the varieties here due to their feel and finish.

It's like saying you have one love for only blondes and nothing else, but a true connoisseur loves all, irrespective of their colour or form simply because you know what each one is like and how they perform.

[digi]

Yeah, that's true. But it must also not be understated that the FEEL of the Topre is quite different to the feel of MX Cherry. It's not that if the quality is less / more variation / questionable for Topre that all of a sudden AS A SWITCH the feel is also bad.

People tend to confuse bad / worse build quality with worse feel as well.

If you have a REAL love of all keyboards that use either Thorpies, Cherry's, Romer-Gs, Matias, ALPs, Buckling Springs, Scissor-switches and a host of decent membrane-based keyboards you will appreciate all of the varieties here due to their feel and finish.

It's like saying you have one love for only blondes and nothing else, but a true connoisseur loves all, irrespective of their colour or form simply because you know what each one is like and how they perform.

What about blacks?

[iLLucionist]

Yeah, that's true. But it must also not be understated that the FEEL of the Topre is quite different to the feel of MX Cherry. It's not that if the quality is less / more variation / questionable for Topre that all of a sudden AS A SWITCH the feel is also bad.

People tend to confuse bad / worse build quality with worse feel as well.

If you have a REAL love of all keyboards that use either Thorpies, Cherry's, Romer-Gs, Matias, ALPs, Buckling Springs, Scissor-switches and a host of decent membrane-based keyboards you will appreciate all of the varieties here due to their feel and finish.

It's like saying you have one love for only blondes and nothing else, but a true connoisseur loves all, irrespective of their colour or form simply because you know what each one is like and how they perform.

Yes... yes... good thinking. That's exactly how it is!

[Altis]

I now have 4 Topre boards (2 87Us and 2 HHKB) and am looking to try some more Topre keyboards.

Topre is certainly rather uneventful. If you're looking for a new and exciting typing feel, it won't give you that fuzz the way some buckling springs or clicky Alps do (which is why I have those too!).

However, of all my keyboards, Topre 45g is the one that I can type on endlessly without fatigue or discomfort, while not making any annoying/overly loud sounds. I absolutely love the way that they sound (unsilenced) and the keycaps tend to be well made with a nice texture.

I especially love the tactility of the Topre switches as it's an elongated hump. It's not dramatic, but because it occurs over such a long portion of the stroke, you end up still feeling tactility when typing very quickly. By contrast, my Blue Alps, MX Blue, buckling springs, Zealios Purple, MX Clear, and especially MX Brown -- ALL feel as near as makes no difference to linear when typing quickly (though not as nice as actually typing on linears, which I love). The slower you type, the more all of those switches can be felt (especially my beloved Blue Alps, which have a longer tactility than MX Blue).

I get that it won't be for everyone. I certainly didn't start off with them because they seemed boring, and in a way they really are...

I really think they "Lexus" comparison is rather fitting since Lexus is rather boring and uneventful... nobody really gets excited for them, but they're very nice and most people could drive one around all day and be happy -- but it won't satisfy that thrill. They even last forever and hold their value like a Lexus

Next up is HiPro and maybe 30-35g Topre as I'm curious what they're like.

[shadowku]

Regular rubber dome= Toyota
Topre= Lexus

But Lexus drivers don't care because they like the car.

I agree with this. I think there's a lot of undeserved criticism for rubber domes because the typical $10 keyboard has them. The problem is that those keyboards feel terrible because they're made to be $10 keyboards, and not because they have rubber domes. There are more premium rubber dome keyboards (that are not Topre) that feel much better than the Dell keyboard you get for free. I actually enjoy typing on some of my Lenovo keyboards which does not feel bad. I hear the HHKB-Lite (which I haven't tried) is pleasant to type on despite being a rubber dome keyboard. These types would probably be your Toyota Avalons and Highlanders, and then the step up would be full Topre which I think is represented by Lexus.

[clasicks]

Yesterday my coworker called my hhkb a type writer. I told her it was $300 and she said HOW, its so small

[shadowku]

Yesterday my coworker called my hhkb a type writer. I told her it was $300 and she said HOW, its so small

You need to tell her it's not about the size, it's about how it feels. Have her try one of the soft, supple switches.

[clasicks]

i specifically told her that if she saw anyone touch it she needed to take it and hide it

[WheresTheSNES]

You can't really compare the weight of topre switches to mx switches because feeling is more important than numbers.  Typing on an FC660C right now which has 45g domes (however, Leopold's domes are heavier than other 45g, more like 50g).  I have stock gateron blacks and stock gateron greens right here too, both of which have a peak force much higher than 50g, yet both of them feel lighter (the blacks significantly so) due to the force curve.

Just got my FC660C this week.  Every single key feels awesome except the down arrow.  I'm like so confused.  It feels less tactile than the other arrow keys.  Do you experience this?  If you look at the domes the bottom three arrow keys are a single strip of domes so I have no idea what the problem could be. 

[jcoffin1981]

Just looking at the board now, the OEM keycap profile isn't helping either. I very lightly rest my wrists on my wristpad all day everyday, so that extra height could be throwing me off too.

Is the HHKB Cherry profile?

I have had RSI in my fingers, but mainly my wrists where my fingers would be numb and I would have terrible nerve pain.  I would actually recommend that you ditch the wrist rest and find a way to raise your seat a bit or lower the keyboard.  This is not easy, but over months I've eliminated 95% of my pain from doing so with strict proper typing technique.  Also if the keyboard is closer to your body you have less of a tendency to lean on your wrists, as well as lean forward.  Also raising the height of the monitor reduces the tendency to lean forward.  I used to like wrist rests, but I think it encourages bad posture and technique.

[typo]

Man, TP it is like you are my identical twin! We think very alike it seems. However if the OP must use a rubber dome.... Let's call a duck a duck. I would honestly try the $89 Razer Ornata Chroma. You might be surprised and might like it. You can try it right at any store that sells it. I would certainly prefer Cherry switches and not even Kaith. I also think the HHKB is just frustrating. I regularly use keys that require Two keys or are simply not available. The Ornata feels great and the build quality is decent but it is a $89 board. Nonetheless for a rubber dome I like it better than Topre now. You do not have to be dead set on topre. You can always get a good Cherry based board and cut your losses. Maybe browns to start. Certainly try before you waste money yet again. Some love topre and that is fine with me. I just not find it is a holy grail and certainly not end game. For some it most certainly is. If you just feel you need to have a status symbol some Koreans can set you back 3 grand if you find them. I can use Topre but I not only prefer Cherry but a modified clear that is outrageously heavy to most people. Everyone is different. I would give the advice to get used to something but not force it. If something is outright hurting me I quit right there. Wrist/hand injury is no joke. Although I find it odd the OP equates Topre with RSI. I find the 55g to be mush. I need like 3x that force. Different strokes for different folks. I do not get hurt with that weight because I do not bottom out. Topre should be just like a good rubber dome really. I would say if it does not work after 16 total hours ditch it.

[tp4tissue]

Man, TP it is like you are my identical twin! We think very alike it seems.

A blessing and a curse...  "mostly" a curse..

[typo]

Well, I can see that. I am pretty strange even as far as nerds go. Which is obviously evident from many of my posts here lol. The strange thing is you often beat me to exactly what I am thinking in a thread. Hence the curse part I suppose.

[typo]

Everyone knows I am Deck's poster boy. The very truth is no RealFroce or HHKB is built anywhere near as solid as a old Deck. It is what it is but still a great keyboard IMO. All my Topre boards I can actually shift the entire case with just very light pressure applied to them! Embracement of the riches I guess. They stated they built the RGB to higher quality and tolerances. BS. Same old thing. Topre boards are flimsy but they are a joy to type on. That is, if you enjoy bottoming out. To me they do not seem to activate until then. Of course as I have mentioned I am a Gorilla. I am not sure if other people can actuate them with bottoming out. Nonetheless I think the Thock and feel is lovely. In fact the boards actually are pretty solid it is just the outer case that is rather flimsy IMO but this is no secret.

[_PixelNinja]

That is, if you enjoy bottoming out. To me they do not seem to activate until then.

APC non-withstanding, Topre actuates half way down. Bottoming out is par for the course due to the design, since the collapsing of the rubber dome pulls the key to the bottom of the stroke.

[Polymer]

Everyone knows I am Deck's poster boy. The very truth is no RealFroce or HHKB is built anywhere near as solid as a old Deck. It is what it is but still a great keyboard IMO. All my Topre boards I can actually shift the entire case with just very light pressure applied to them! Embracement of the riches I guess. They stated they built the RGB to higher quality and tolerances. BS. Same old thing. Topre boards are flimsy but they are a joy to type on. That is, if you enjoy bottoming out. To me they do not seem to activate until then. Of course as I have mentioned I am a Gorilla. I am not sure if other people can actuate them with bottoming out. Nonetheless I think the Thock and feel is lovely. In fact the boards actually are pretty solid it is just the outer case that is rather flimsy IMO but this is no secret.

You're confusing quite a number of things....Topre never has to bottom out..but typing with it you pretty much have to...

Just because you can shift the case doesn't mean it isn't made well..

The boards are pretty much bulletproof..you pretty much never about problems with Topre because they're not subject to the same type of problems other switches are stuck with....the closest thing to breaking them will be when the rubber dome fails..but I don't actually know of anyone that has had them fail yet although it being rubber it will at some point wear out..

[_PixelNinja]

Topre being a reliable switch has far less to to do with the chassis, than the design of the electronics.

And to be fair — bulletproof is not an adjective that comes to mind when I think of the HHKB's case, for instance. If anything, it's actually rather flimsy for what is costs.

[typo]

No kidding LOL. The electronics, sure they are good. They are very simple compared to an actual switch like Cherry. The case is honestly sad for what these cost. Also, It feels wonderful until you hit the bottom.  It always has me questioning if it is really in any better than a Leopold with say, Browns. Actually as mentioned in another post the rubber dome is in fact silicone. So in essence this board should not wear out in our lifetimes so long as we are gentle with it. No harsh traveling etc. Like everything else is has its plusses and minuses. Some people will leave the room if you do not say it is the best there is. Others disagree. I am torn. I guess just rotate my boards. I certainly have enough of them. I do think hitting the bottom on Topre is easier on the fingers than doing that on Cherry though. Of course with like Blues there is no reason whatsoever to hit the bottom. You feel it and hear it, if that is not enough might need a typing class! The case does not bother me as I am gentle but I am just saying.....

[yuppie]

lube it

[typo]

I think on the RGB today I am going to lube and rings. I too find it fatiguing. I prefer a much heavier switch if that makes any sense. I have 2 104UB a HHKB and a HHKB-"S". Mainly, I have too many keyboards. The RGB is a good backlit board. Should be for $269 One just has to understand that these are different than MX anything.

[Polymer]

Topre being a reliable switch has far less to to do with the chassis, than the design of the electronics.

And to be fair — bulletproof is not an adjective that comes to mind when I think of the HHKB's case, for instance. If anything, it's actually rather flimsy for what is costs.

Again, equating heft, weight with quality.  Plenty of big heavy keyboards that aren't nearly as well made nor as reliable. 
The reliability has NOTHING to do with the Chassis...same when it comes to MX...

Topres are pretty much bulletproof as a keyboard...they're not going to fail...there just isn't that allows them to fail...which is why we rarely hear of any reliability issues...

[_PixelNinja]

Again, equating heft, weight with quality.  Plenty of big heavy keyboards that aren't nearly as well made nor as reliable. 
The reliability has NOTHING to do with the Chassis...same when it comes to MX...

Topres are pretty much bulletproof as a keyboard...they're not going to fail...there just isn't that allows them to fail...which is why we rarely hear of any reliability issues...

You are putting words in my mouth — I never mentioned anything such as heft, weight etc. Other keyboards not being as well made is irrelevant. Typo's premise was that Topre keyboards aren't that solid in terms of build quality. To that, in regards to the HHKB, I agree. I am not discussing the reliability of Topre's switches which are arguably the most reliable in the business.

[typo]

This is true. Some Stereo sales folk have the customer pick up an amp. So they must equate weight with sound quality! A much smaller amp may in fact be much better built. To go further, one maybe falling apart may sound better yet. Kind of the case(no pun intended) with Realforce and HHKB.

I did as I said with the RGB plus put custom GMK's. Now, Me thinks it actually feels better than the HHKB Silent. Nice. Still does not make up for the case shifting and press in the case. That is absurd for an almost $400USD Keyboard IMO. I mean the HHKB Silent. Although now my RGB is up to like $700USD if you count a little Labor too.

[Polymer]

Again, equating heft, weight with quality.  Plenty of big heavy keyboards that aren't nearly as well made nor as reliable. 
The reliability has NOTHING to do with the Chassis...same when it comes to MX...

Topres are pretty much bulletproof as a keyboard...they're not going to fail...there just isn't that allows them to fail...which is why we rarely hear of any reliability issues...

You are putting words in my mouth — I never mentioned anything such as heft, weight etc. Other keyboards not being as well made is irrelevant. Typo's premise was that Topre keyboards aren't that solid in terms of build quality. To that, in regards to the HHKB, I agree. I am not discussing the reliability of Topre's switches which are arguably the most reliable in the business.

You referred to the weight of the case (Flimsy) as it pertains to build quality...so I'm not putting words in your mouth..

Bulletproof, the description, is in reference the the reliability.....but you did mention the "Flimsy" case....Why is it flimsy?  Because it isn't heavy?  The build quality isn't good?  Really?  So how many physical failures are you seeing on HHKBs or Realforces?  What makes the build quality not that solid?  The only ones I've seen are people being a bit too rough with their HHKB and breaking how the case sticks together..but it isn't meant to be opened...

I've seen two "flaws" with RFs..that is some cases have that little semi invisible line on the bottom right hand corner...and because of the case design w/ the clip, you can twist the keyboard which might mean when you get it, it doesn't sit perfectly flat.  The line thing you can't fix but the sitting flat thing you can..You can either slightly twist it the other way (which shifts the case) or just press on the corners and it'll shift itself.  Does that mean the build quality isn't there?  I've seen some people say this is how they test build quality..but that isn't true at all...

Comparing both RFs and HHKBs to other MX boards, including Alu cased or custom, they're easily the equal or better in actual build quality...they might not be as heavy..but again, heavy doesn't equal build quality...

[Riverman]

I don't see how anyone could call a Realforce case flimsy.  I'm typing on one right now, and it's very solid.  There's no flex in it, and it feels like a higher quality case than what Filco uses.  I will admit that there's nothing exciting about the Realforce, like others have said, but it's a pleasure to type on.  None of my coworkers are going to ask me about this thing, unless it's why I'm using such an old fashioned-looking keyboard (I have the light grey silent version).  I'm just impressed with how tactile this thing is, while still being quiet.  My old Apple Extended Keyboard II with silenced cream Alps is noisy and very linear-feeling compared to this.

[zslane]

I don't see how anyone could call a Realforce case flimsy.  I'm typing on one right now, and it's very solid.  There's no flex in it, and it feels like a higher quality case than what Filco uses.

That is not quite the case for the Realforce RGB, and since it looks like the Realforce R2 uses the new case design introduced by the RGB, the "flimsy case" complaints will likely grow louder in the future.

[typo]

The RGB is their new case. Also going to the GMK's. They feel these things are an improvement. So, if you are buying 104UB buy it now. I doubt they cut corners and truly believe they think these things are better. I imagine the switch goes too. I have so many corrections on the RGB. WPM slowed a lot. The current 104UB does not do this to me. Plus screw this thing. 255,255,255 is pale blue as expected.  If they switch it to new ones it is either done or get used to it.

I would say the 104UB is honestly fine regardless but I would not use the word "bullet proof" to describe it.

[zslane]

Unfortunately all Topre boards except the RGB are useless to me because I can't put any of my SA keycap sets on them (without major reconstructive surgery). That's why I wish someone would design an aluminum case for it and offer it in powder-coated white (like the gorgeous Norbauer NovaTouch case I have).

[typo]

It comes with actual GMK's. They are not Ducky as some think. I put a Massdrop GMK set on mine. Same quality though which is good. White Led is not bad but it is more blue of course.

[sodiumjoe]

Unfortunately all Topre boards except the RGB are useless to me because I can't put any of my SA keycap sets on them (without major reconstructive surgery). That's why I wish someone would design an aluminum case for it and offer it in powder-coated white (like the gorgeous Norbauer NovaTouch case I have).

Norbauer has an active interest check for an aluminum case for the rf87 right now.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[zslane]

Yes, but the Realforce RGB is a full-size board, not a TKL.

[typo]

I would pay several thousand for one. Just because I can and feel it is worth it. I know it would not be cheap if like only about 5 were made. I will not fund their toolup and everything though. It is not that important to me. The case seems to stink but actually decent.