Author Topic: Searching for advice: Layout for ErgoDox  (Read 5745 times)

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Offline SoerenTheElk

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Searching for advice: Layout for ErgoDox
« on: Sat, 23 July 2016, 04:04:17 »
Hello,

my ErgoDox will be arriving soon and I decided to use the opportunity and switch to a more ergonomic keyboard layout.
But for me it is kinda hard to get through the forest of different layouts.

I'm a student (computer science) from Germany that works part time as a developer (java, python) and will continue so.
So I use a lot of different script languages and LaTEX, emacs in evilmode and VIM keybindings wherever I can. Also Linux and awesome wm (tiling window manager).

All in all, a lot of keybindings. I know I have to rebind a lot of them to buttons on the main row, but that's okay for me.
I would just prefer to do it all at once, since I have a few weeks of spare time coming and that would be the perfect opportunity.

So far I have:
- Colmak
- Dvorak
- Neo
- AdNW (looks promising, but I cant find anything for special characters like []{};/\, etc)
- Norman (good marketing, haven't heard much about it, but looks good)

So, I'm up for any advices! :-)

Thanks for reading!

Offline LuX

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Re: Searching for advice: Layout for ErgoDox
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 23 July 2016, 05:27:48 »
I hear Neo and Dvorak are popular among Germans (both score better in German vs English typing). I personally didn't like Dvorak for English, some of the letters were too awkward when it came to rolling and low same-hand-rate feels unproductive, but many people prefer that (the way I see it, Dvorak is good for the slow "hunt-n-peckers", the layout in German may be better though). If you type a lot in English then Colemak is great. It's also pretty good for Vim, since the HJKL cluster is placed conveniently out of the way, but within reach and in logical order (google for reference). It's also one of the easiest to switch to from QWERTY, and since so many letters are in the original place, it will be much better for default shortcuts. Some people swear by Workman (mod from Colemak), but I don't see the appeal. It promotes a poor typing technique and shoots itself in the leg by increasing same finger usage among many other things. But it has some loyal fans, so it can't be all that bad. None the less, almost anything is better than QWERTY.

When it comes to special characters, I recommend you place them as you feel is best for what ever language you use and ignore the original authors design. Try something and keep changing the layout until you are happy with it. You can also use a function button to place your most used characters on the homerow for example.

Keep in mind that once you switch layouts, you'll decrease your productivity significantly for at least a month or two, so do it during a holiday. Switching to a keyboard like ErgoDox and placing symbols on the homerow is already a much greater improvement than switching layouts will be, so think twice before dong so. It will also make it awkward to use someone else's computer after a while. But if you're serious about using the computer a lot then a more ergonomic layout is a good thing to do.

Offline Pro XKB

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Re: Searching for advice: Layout for ErgoDox
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 23 July 2016, 10:55:08 »
Quote
awesome wm (tiling window manager).

I remember there were keyboard-related problems with awesome a few years ago.  Awesome is xcb-based, and xcb did not support the X Keyboard Extension (XKB) for long time.  I believe it does now, but if you run into trouble with your new layout, maybe check that.

Quote
- AdNW (looks promising, but I cant find anything for special characters like []{};/\, etc)

AdNW does not officially care about the special characters.  In practise, all existing implementations (in particular, the one in xkeyboard-config that you will be using on Linux) adopt the Neo 2 level scheme.  Only the 30 letters and . and , are moved compared to Neo 2, as well as the Level 5/6 symbols (Greek letters, mostly) on the respective keys.  “Ebene 3” (with the important special characters) and “Ebene 4” (navigation) are exactly as in Neo 2


Offline Snarfangel

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Re: Searching for advice: Layout for ErgoDox
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 23 July 2016, 23:51:57 »
Have you thought of a roll-your own version? I played with MTGAP keyboard optimization (check here: https://mathematicalmulticore.wordpress.com/the-keyboard-layout-project/ ), and tweaked it with the Keyboard Layout Optimizer from here -- http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/#/main -- to make a version I am pretty happy with. I am using it right now.
143248-0

I use this on a Kinesis instead of an Ergodox, and it's geared for English rather than German and programming, but I like it. The number location looks a bit odd (half unshifted and half shifted) but it works well for me, and if I have lots of numbers I just turn on the keypad. With a bit of work, you might come up with a version you prefer to Dvorak/Colemak/AdNW.

Offline jacobolus

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Re: Searching for advice: Layout for ErgoDox
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 24 July 2016, 00:32:38 »
Go talk to the AdNW people, http://www.adnw.de

I’m sure some of them are programmers, and that one has been optimized for German.

Offline SoerenTheElk

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Re: Searching for advice: Layout for ErgoDox
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 24 July 2016, 03:58:43 »
Have you thought of a roll-your own version? I played with MTGAP keyboard optimization (check here: https://mathematicalmulticore.wordpress.com/the-keyboard-layout-project/ ), and tweaked it with the Keyboard Layout Optimizer from here -- http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/#/main -- to make a version I am pretty happy with. I am using it right now.
(Attachment Link)

I use this on a Kinesis instead of an Ergodox, and it's geared for English rather than German and programming, but I like it. The number location looks a bit odd (half unshifted and half shifted) but it works well for me, and if I have lots of numbers I just turn on the keypad. With a bit of work, you might come up with a version you prefer to Dvorak/Colemak/AdNW.

That is an interesting idea! The only problem with it, is to find the right balance between text inputs. And to use a source of code that displays a big variety and not only Java, Python and the frameworks I'm working with right now.

I will give it a try atleast. :thumb:

Offline algernon

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Re: Searching for advice: Layout for ErgoDox
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 24 July 2016, 05:40:24 »
For programming, my experience is that easy access to the most used symbols, and modifiers (for Editor/IDE shortcuts) are more important than the layout of alphanumerics. Having easy access to all the symbols you need makes the programming workflow a lot smoother. Doubly so if your shortcuts come natural too, without having to do weird finger twisting.