Nice! What about South America customers? Don’t neglect us, please.
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Nice! What about South America customers? Don’t neglect us, please.
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Ey Enrique, just wondering, what layout do you guys normarly use? ISO, ANSI? Maybe it depends on the country?
I really don't understand the pricing on some of these kits. Cadet is $38.99 for 8 keys? Novelties is the same price yet has more keys, more colors, custom legends, etc. Dox kit is almost $100. What's the reasoning behind this?
hahaha, $210 for CADR?!? Does that come with a backrub and kiss on the cheek from SP?
For as much as I wanted a set, that doesn't feel like GB pricing but more like aftermarket markup....
Nice! What about South America customers? Don’t neglect us, please.
I really don't understand the pricing on some of these kits. Cadet is $38.99 for 8 keys? Novelties is the same price yet has more keys, more colors, custom legends, etc. Dox kit is almost $100. What's the reasoning behind this?
hahaha, $210 for CADR?!? Does that come with a backrub and kiss on the cheek from SP?
For as much as I wanted a set, that doesn't feel like GB pricing but more like aftermarket markup....
Looking to put this on a 96 key. Should I go with the CADR or alphas+modifiers+numpad+extension? What's the difference?
Was originally gonna pick up CADR, but it is actually $6 more expensive than Alphas+Mods+Extensions+Numpad so I think I'll go sculpted. That will match the sculpt of the choices kits better, too. Love having the option of blue vs grey choices kits! I think I'll have to do both.
The pricing of the Cadet kit may not be a mistake, Kono noted that they already lowered the price of the kit to $39. Will regrettably have to pass on that one if it is accurate, especially when the Vim kit has more keys that require new legends and they are only $14.
I don’t know if this has been brought up but the spacekeys kit also seems really highly priced. I mean if that’s what they are then it is what it is and that’s fine, but could you double check the pricing on that kit as well?
you should get dailyclack.com to proxy for australia ;)
you should get dailyclack.com to proxy for australia ;)
+1
+3you should get dailyclack.com to proxy for australia ;)
+1
+2
+3you should get dailyclack.com to proxy for australia ;)
+1
+2
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In for CADR, the price is high but not unreasonable - but spacekeys is a different story. That's gotta be a mistake at $54, right? The exact same spacekeys kit in SA Oblivion was $25 without any MOQ price drops.
In for CADR, the price is high but not unreasonable - but spacekeys is a different story. That's gotta be a mistake at $54, right? The exact same spacekeys kit in SA Oblivion was $25 without any MOQ price drops.
Yeah, Cadet is ridiculous too. There's no way those two kits are priced correctly. I'd actually like to get cadet, but now for $40. I'm waiting to join until it gets fixed or at least confirmed that's it's just grossly overpriced.
In for CADR, the price is high but not unreasonable - but spacekeys is a different story. That's gotta be a mistake at $54, right? The exact same spacekeys kit in SA Oblivion was $25 without any MOQ price drops.
Yeah, Cadet is ridiculous too. There's no way those two kits are priced correctly. I'd actually like to get cadet, but now for $40. I'm waiting to join until it gets fixed or at least confirmed that's it's just grossly overpriced.
Yeah i'm holding off on ordering Cadet in the hopes that it is just a mistake...
I was wondering if it would be at all possible to get a render of the base kit/mods with the yellow spacebar thrown in there alongside yellow enter and escape key. Im kinda sad/surprised that there wasn't already a render that threw it in there because IMO the yellow enter/escape look great.
Now I've never been a part of a group buy before, but the price for the modifiers and the extension seem to very high for a group buy. Is there a reason for this or am I just being unreasonable?
Nice! What about South America customers? Don’t neglect us, please.
+3you should get dailyclack.com to proxy for australia ;)
+1
+2
Are we gonna have different price tiers for different MOQs? Or is it just one fix price regardless?
I don’t know if this has been brought up but the spacekeys kit also seems really highly priced. I mean if that’s what they are then it is what it is and that’s fine, but could you double check the pricing on that kit as well?
I will wait for Zfrontier too.
But why is the space keys $53.99? That's more expensive than the alphas!
In for CADR, the price is high but not unreasonable - but spacekeys is a different story. That's gotta be a mistake at $54, right? The exact same spacekeys kit in SA Oblivion was $25 without any MOQ price drops.
Yeah, Cadet is ridiculous too. There's no way those two kits are priced correctly. I'd actually like to get cadet, but now for $40. I'm waiting to join until it gets fixed or at least confirmed that's it's just grossly overpriced.
Waiting for Zfrontier :D
Now I've never been a part of a group buy before, but the price for the modifiers and the extension seem to very high for a group buy. Is there a reason for this or am I just being unreasonable?
Actually alphas + mods+ numpad is very reasonable if not below some of the other SA drops lately. If anything considering how in demand this color scheme is, I will say its cheaper than I was expecting. I purchased GMK Space Cadet and will also get SA version, its one of those iconic sets that everyone should have both of em.
Some kits prices may appear more than usual, but I understand Kono may be in process of updating the price.
Overall very affordable kit, but wont mind any further price drops.
Looks like fix price to me.
Just to be sure: if some set won't meet MOQ, will we be able to choose other sets instead or will be refunded right away?
I'm in for alphas and considering 40s as well, but 40s are known to miss MOQ.
Would also like to know what the MOQs for each kits are, and how are they handled if not reached.
Great work on the set by the way! :thumb:
We will not have different price drops. It's too hard to perform price drops since we have 20+ kits and three different vendors/proxies. Once we add proxies we lose flexibility. So it works in a way that each kit has an estimated MOQ, based on popularity. Some kit has a lower price at higher MOQ, while some other kit has a higher price at lower MOQ.
I got confirmation from Kono Store that all current prices are correct. The Cadet kit's price is a bit high because it's priced at lower MOQ while Novelties kit's price is at higher MOQ. In the end you will see the same prices for both. The Spacekeys kit's price is high because it has 3u keys and it has lower MOQ for pricing.
It's not just that simple to count the number of keys in a kit and sum their prices to get the final kit's price. The popularity and sold number should be considered too. It's counterintuitive at the first look.
In for CADR, the price is high but not unreasonable - but spacekeys is a different story. That's gotta be a mistake at $54, right? The exact same spacekeys kit in SA Oblivion was $25 without any MOQ price drops.
Yeah, Cadet is ridiculous too. There's no way those two kits are priced correctly. I'd actually like to get cadet, but now for $40. I'm waiting to join until it gets fixed or at least confirmed that's it's just grossly overpriced.
I got confirmation from Kono Store that all current prices are correct. The Cadet kit's price is a bit high because it's priced at lower MOQ while Novelties kit's price is at higher MOQ. In the end you will see the same prices for both. The Spacekeys kit's price is high because it has 3u keys and it has lower MOQ for pricing.
It's not just that simple to count the number of keys in a kit and sum their prices to get the final kit's price. The popularity and sold number should be considered too. It's counterintuitive at the first look.
sorry if this question looks a little silly, would be a bad idea to use blue choices kit like modifiers in a lets split build? is the profile in r1 and r4 so different?
In for CADR, the price is high but not unreasonable - but spacekeys is a different story. That's gotta be a mistake at $54, right? The exact same spacekeys kit in SA Oblivion was $25 without any MOQ price drops.
Yeah, Cadet is ridiculous too. There's no way those two kits are priced correctly. I'd actually like to get cadet, but now for $40. I'm waiting to join until it gets fixed or at least confirmed that's it's just grossly overpriced.
Yeah i'm holding off on ordering Cadet in the hopes that it is just a mistake...
I was wondering if it would be at all possible to get a render of the base kit/mods with the yellow spacebar thrown in there alongside yellow enter and escape key. Im kinda sad/surprised that there wasn't already a render that threw it in there because IMO the yellow enter/escape look great.
+1 for yellow spacebar renders, if possible on full size kb plz.
I am really digging this yellow color, should ve asked for 2nd mod set or alpha in same during IC phase. Someone should design a SA set with this yellow(YBP) as full mod set and a suitable alpha contrast.
Man. While I'm still quite excited about this set, the pricing is a bit of a gut punch. Hard to stomach things like a spacebar not being included in the main alphas kit when the only option left is to buy a spacebar "kit" that runs $16.
Anybody interested in a 60% only kit? I'm trying to get a few sets of the F1-F12 keys and so I'll have to buy multiple mods sets and won't need the other keys. We can arrange some sort of split.
Man. While I'm still quite excited about this set, the pricing is a bit of a gut punch. Hard to stomach things like a spacebar not being included in the main alphas kit when the only option left is to buy a spacebar "kit" that runs $16.
Dude try justifying a 50 dollar spacebar kit when the choices kit is only 25. These prices are weird
there are definitely other factors i.e. popularity and MOQ, but $53.99 for spacekeys is too much for me as well.
Good luck with the GB!
there are definitely other factors i.e. popularity and MOQ, but $53.99 for spacekeys is too much for me as well.
there are definitely other factors i.e. popularity and MOQ, but $53.99 for spacekeys is too much for me as well.
Agreed. For comparison, Carbon spacekeys opened at $30. The closest Carbon set to cadet is the mac kit which opened at $25. You can try and spin the pricing model and defend it all you want, but either kono or sp is gouging some of the kits in this set, and I think they would honestly hit a higher moq than "expected" if they were priced fairly. That's just my opinion though, and I'll have to pass on some kits, but I'm still getting Symbiosis. Just bummed I can't get all the kits I had planned.
Can we not have a little trust in Kono and hhkbp2?
At the end of the day there’s only so much that can be done if SP is saying this is the price.
instead of complaining or thinking they are owed something
Can we not have a little trust in Kono and hhkbp2?
I don't distrust hhkbp2. If anything I feel sympathetic for him because of all the pricing drama. I'm mostly suspicious of SP at this point tbh.At the end of the day there’s only so much that can be done if SP is saying this is the price.
instead of complaining or thinking they are owed something
I don't think questioning pricing that is significantly higher than past pricing is complaining or entitlement. The ability to raise alarm on this is vital to a free market and consumers are under absolutely no obligation to blindly accept a company's product/pricing.
No idea if Kono is going to change price depending an number if sets.
I think at this point though it doesn’t really make sense for everyone to keep talking in circles about set “x” having the spacekeys cheaper. That’s all I’m getting at.
With GB done via Massdrop, at least the reduction points are transparent.
No idea if Kono is going to change price depending an number if sets.
I need 2 keys from the spacekeys set. Making this a deal breaker. Why buy any other kit, when I can‘t fit my layout? Just buy the alphas an find ohter sets to arange around it?They are not. Prices are fixed and will remain the same no matter how many sets are ordered. OP confirmed this a few posts back.
With GB done via Massdrop, at least the reduction points are transparent.I'm also not much of a Massdrop fan. I made the point of making it transparent. Even if this sells like hell, we will not get better prices.
No idea if Kono is going to change price depending an number if sets.
I need 2 keys from the spacekeys set. Making this a deal breaker. Why buy any other kit, when I can‘t fit my layout? Just buy the alphas an find other sets to arrange around it?They are not. Prices are fixed and will remain the same no matter how many sets are ordered. OP confirmed this a few posts back.
KeyClack may be a good option in the future too if Kono is unable to offer drop points. Massdrop is often backed up on sets and a lot of people don't really like Massdrop anyways.
No idea if Kono is going to change price depending an number if sets.
They are not. Prices are fixed and will remain the same no matter how many sets are ordered. OP confirmed this a few posts back.
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Show Image(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1994/3097/products/cadet.jpg?v=1537987573)
This for $39Show Image(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1994/3097/products/spacekeys.jpg?v=1537987573)
And this for $54. I mean come on guys. Eight keys for $39 and 10 keys for $54. These prices are nuts. I want to join but you guys can't be serious with the pricing for some of these kits right?
Is mykeyboard.eu still in business? There was no reaction on their website all this week... Buying from Kono is the safest, right? (I know there would be an extra customs charge for Europe)
No idea if Kono is going to change price depending an number if sets.
They are not. Prices are fixed and will remain the same no matter how many sets are ordered. OP confirmed this a few posts back.
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Can OP comment on this? If prices are fixed, does that mean this will be limited quantity?
Want to overlook what appears to be pricing mistakes with Cadet and Spacekeys kits,
Too many pricing related weirdness makes me uneasy.
Is mykeyboard.eu still in business? There was no reaction on their website all this week... Buying from Kono is the safest, right? (I know there would be an extra customs charge for Europe)
No idea if Kono is going to change price depending an number if sets.
They are not. Prices are fixed and will remain the same no matter how many sets are ordered. OP confirmed this a few posts back.
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Can OP comment on this? If prices are fixed, does that mean this will be limited quantity?
Want to overlook what appears to be pricing mistakes with Cadet and Spacekeys kits,
Too many pricing related weirdness makes me uneasy.
We don't have price drops. Because it's too hard to do price drops and organize across 20+ kits and 3 vendors/proxies. There are 3 systems, 20+ SKUs, thousands of orders. It’s unpractical for support staff across 3 vendors/proxies to institute a manual price change on a product, then track down every individual order per SKU and manually refund each person. So it’s better to estimate where it will land. Once we add proxies, we lost flexibility.
As for the prices of Cadet kit and Spacekeys kit, Kono Store verified that they are correct. I made examples in previous posts to elaborate the price are not only about the number of keys, but also affected by other factors such as popularity and MOQ, fee on new legends, etc. It's counterintuitive at the first look. And this is the best price Kono Store could have.
With GB done via Massdrop, at least the reduction points are transparent.I'm also not much of a Massdrop fan. I made the point of making it transparent. Even if this sells like hell, we will not get better prices.
No idea if Kono is going to change price depending an number if sets.
I need 2 keys from the spacekeys set. Making this a deal breaker. Why buy any other kit, when I can‘t fit my layout? Just buy the alphas an find other sets to arrange around it?They are not. Prices are fixed and will remain the same no matter how many sets are ordered. OP confirmed this a few posts back.
KeyClack may be a good option in the future too if Kono is unable to offer drop points. Massdrop is often backed up on sets and a lot of people don't really like Massdrop anyways.
If the original prices takes low initial MOQ into account, we would not benefit of higher numbers. They have almost no risk, and will benefit from the increased margin if it goes well.
You're truly doing human kind a great service with this kit!
I'm curious as to what the thinking for the "40s" set is? Specifically the name "40s" got me stumped, as it seems to refer to something? (I've only been keeping an eye on the geekhack community until now, so maybe this is obvious to the rest?)
Also, I assume there are no printed Greek characters on the front of the keys, or they would have been shown, and would naturally have increased the price by much.
To those complaining about the price, just watch the Symbolics Space Cadet keyboard review (Honeywell Hall effect 4B3E) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDozftThFMw) video on repeat until you psyched yourselves to buy.
Thanks for clarification!
Also, to nit-pick, I don't see it written clearly anywhere that it's Cherry MX-mount, as I assume it to be.
is there a reason for the prices in zfrontier to be higher for every kit?
To those complaining about the price, just watch the Symbolics Space Cadet keyboard review (Honeywell Hall effect 4B3E) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDozftThFMw) video on repeat until you psyched yourselves to buy.
To those complaining about the price, just watch the Symbolics Space Cadet keyboard review (Honeywell Hall effect 4B3E) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDozftThFMw) video on repeat until you psyched yourselves to buy.
Thanks for the video, Gosh, the classic space cadet keycaps were insanely thick double-shot, I couldn't imagine how it feels when typing on them :D
hhkbp2, thanks for the explanation. Just noticed your avatar is the SICP cover, happy hacking!
Well, I assumed it would be too obvious to point out in a thread like this... Glad you chose the front of the cover and not the back picture of the Sussman+Abelson-thing/ composite image based on two fat balding men.hhkbp2, thanks for the explanation. Just noticed your avatar is the SICP cover, happy hacking!
Your are the first person who noticed that(and said it loud). :))
Happy hacking!
Nice! What about South America customers? Don’t neglect us, please.
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Ey Enrique, just wondering, what layout do you guys normarly use? ISO, ANSI? Maybe it depends on the country?
Hey!
Spanish-speaking countries such as mine (Peru) use “Spanish-Latin America” layout, which is ISO. Most South American countries except Brazil use this layout. Brazil, being a Portuguese-speaking country, uses a Portuguese variant of ISO.
I am personally a US ANSI user, though, given my background as a programmer and Vim lover. I find using US ANSI much more natural in my field of work. This is a great advantage as a keyboard enthusiast, since I have much greater selection of keyboards and keycaps to choose from.
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That means no more refund when GB closed whether the selling quantity? :eek:
Do you know when the mykeyboard link will be available?
Can order from zfronter international even if I'm in the UK?
I'm not sure where I'm gonna be after a year (I travel between Asia and Europe due to work), also, the markup on mykeyboard.eu seem high even added a import tax.
And got shipped to you without problem?Can order from zfronter international even if I'm in the UK?
I'm not sure where I'm gonna be after a year (I travel between Asia and Europe due to work), also, the markup on mykeyboard.eu seem high even added a import tax.
I've ordered from zfrontier to the EU before.
And got shipped to you without problem?Can order from zfronter international even if I'm in the UK?
I'm not sure where I'm gonna be after a year (I travel between Asia and Europe due to work), also, the markup on mykeyboard.eu seem high even added a import tax.
I've ordered from zfrontier to the EU before.
if yes, I definitely going to order from zfrontier.
And got shipped to you without problem?Can order from zfronter international even if I'm in the UK?
I'm not sure where I'm gonna be after a year (I travel between Asia and Europe due to work), also, the markup on mykeyboard.eu seem high even added a import tax.
I've ordered from zfrontier to the EU before.
if yes, I definitely going to order from zfrontier.
Yes! Shipping was really fast with DHL express too.
Hi there,
Just wanted to say, mykeyboard.eu now also lists the caps on their homepage.
Hi there,
Just wanted to say, mykeyboard.eu now also lists the caps on their homepage.
Just to clarify, the spacebar kit contains the same keys as the blanks in the 40's kits? Both sets are concave rather then convex?
Hi all, noob here!!!! What combination should I buy for my new Input club Kira keyboard?Alphas + Modifiers + Numpad + Extension
Thanks!!!
Hi all, noob here!!!! What combination should I buy for my new Input club Kira keyboard?Alphas + Modifiers + Numpad + Extension
Thanks!!!
Any ETA on information regarding numbers of current orders vs MOQs?
Any ETA on information regarding numbers of current orders vs MOQs?
It doesn't matter. We won't get a pricedrop in exchange for all kits being ran no matter the order numbers.
SA Symbiosis
Open until October 26. The Uniform R3 CADR set was added. Due to sales numbers and higher-than-expected interest on keyboard forums, we've dropped the price of Mods and Cadet keysets. Refunds for existing orders will be issued over the next few days.
Any ETA on information regarding numbers of current orders vs MOQs?
It doesn't matter. We won't get a pricedrop in exchange for all kits being ran no matter the order numbers.
I just wanna know if certain kits are on track to pass MOQ. Already accepted that prices won't change.
I just wanna know if certain kits are on track to pass MOQ. Already accepted that prices won't change.
Just got a reply from Kono Store, that most kits are doing ok except a few like 40s, colevrak, nordeuk, cadr. And they will check the numbers with other proxies later. Zfrontier will be back in a few days since it's holiday of China National Day now.
Got an extra Alphas kit to go with the 40s. Do let us know if any kit is not going to make MOQ so we can make changes in our other kits.
1. I assume people within the EU are reluctant to buy from mykeyboard.eu, given the markup in price, but why does many seem to go with zFrontier instead of buying directly from Kono, when zFrontier is about 5% more expensive than the former?I live in Germany and I ordered from mykeyboard.eu. Reason is, with my last orders from outside the EU I always had to deal with customs. For me that means approximately 20% taxes plus 2% customs fees (I think up to 30€ you don't have to pay taxes and customs, but I don't know the exact amount). Taxes are on the product price plus transportation fees by the way.
2. Can one expect zFrontier to ship the product to EU in such a way that customs fees and charges are circumvented, or why else not buy cheaper directly from the source? I do see zFrontier offering free shipping, while Kono looks to charge $18, is this the main reason to choose it?
3. I'm not so sure mykeyboard is that "extra expensive," given the massive extra charge due to customs (+25% +fee for charging you), if ordering from Kono or zFrontier, to a country within the EU.
Please share your thoughts and experiences.
Next German here: Usually i buy from mykeyboard if possible, but for this GB I'll take zfrontier. It's too much extra from mykeyboard. I haven't payed tax for earlier zfrontier orders. Not sure why, but even with tax it's much cheaper.But why then zFrontier when kono is even cheaper? Is it just because you're hoping the probability of getting screwed by customs is lower from zFrontier?
Next German here: Usually i buy from mykeyboard if possible, but for this GB I'll take zfrontier. It's too much extra from mykeyboard. I haven't payed tax for earlier zfrontier orders. Not sure why, but even with tax it's much cheaper.But why then zFrontier when kono is even cheaper? Is it just because you're hoping the probability of getting screwed by customs is lower from zFrontier?
OP already stated that there won't be MOQ discounts so hmm I don't see how that might be necessary?Next German here: Usually i buy from mykeyboard if possible, but for this GB I'll take zfrontier. It's too much extra from mykeyboard. I haven't payed tax for earlier zfrontier orders. Not sure why, but even with tax it's much cheaper.But why then zFrontier when kono is even cheaper? Is it just because you're hoping the probability of getting screwed by customs is lower from zFrontier?
yeah
Will it be possible to get some break down of to date orders placed?
Will it be possible to get some break down of to date orders placed?
We're not doing price drops for this GB.
I talked to Kono about the MOQs. For now most kits are doing ok to happen. The numbers on 40s, Ergodox, CADR, NordeUK are a bit low, but there's still time. We will make sure buyers have time to adjust their order if any kit fails MOQ.
Will it be possible to get some break down of to date orders placed?
We're not doing price drops for this GB.
I talked to Kono about the MOQs. For now most kits are doing ok to happen. The numbers on 40s, Ergodox, CADR, NordeUK are a bit low, but there's still time. We will make sure buyers have time to adjust their order if any kit fails MOQ.
Will it be possible to get some break down of to date orders placed?
We're not doing price drops for this GB.
I talked to Kono about the MOQs. For now most kits are doing ok to happen. The numbers on 40s, Ergodox, CADR, NordeUK are a bit low, but there's still time. We will make sure buyers have time to adjust their order if any kit fails MOQ.
Thank you for checking! I wish I could pay more just so the ergodox set gets made...
Will it be possible to get some break down of to date orders placed?
We're not doing price drops for this GB.
I talked to Kono about the MOQs. For now most kits are doing ok to happen. The numbers on 40s, Ergodox, CADR, NordeUK are a bit low, but there's still time. We will make sure buyers have time to adjust their order if any kit fails MOQ.
Thank you for checking! I wish I could pay more just so the ergodox set gets made...
I mean you could buy more then one kit...
Hi hhkp. I am really interested in picking up the spacebar kit but the prices seem a little bit on the higher end on that particular kit. Was just wondering if there is any chance of bumping it down? Thanks!
Ordered NORDE, cadet and numpad!As a fellow countryman, might I ask you if you used zFrontier or Kono or mykeyboard? The last option seem crazy expensive, as one will be paying custom fees twice (US -> EU, EU -> NO)
Ordered NORDE, cadet and numpad!As a fellow countryman, might I ask you if you used zFrontier or Kono or mykeyboard? The last option seem crazy expensive, as one will be paying custom fees twice (US -> EU, EU -> NO)
jumped in for 7 kits man that hurt but great set so whatever.
When this GB ends?
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Thanks for your support! I understand the prices might be not ideal and there are so many other great keyset running/comingNone more worthy to a true Emacs warrior!
SWE here, i ordered through zfrontier. It's simply too much of a markup on mykeyboard to justify it. I would def do the same if i were you.But zFrontier also mark up the price from Kono, and both are outside EU, but you're hoping your package will more probably "slip through" customs, in the ever growing tide of packages from China, compared to if you buy from Kono directly? Or is it the free shipping option that favors zFronter over Kono?
SWE here, i ordered through zfrontier. It's simply too much of a markup on mykeyboard to justify it. I would def do the same if i were you.But zFrontier also mark up the price from Kono, and both are outside EU, but you're hoping your package will more probably "slip through" customs, in the ever growing tide of packages from China, compared to if you buy from Kono directly? Or is it the free shipping option that favors zFronter over Kono?
@hhkbp2 I’m curious... Why was the idea of having front-facing Greek legends like the original Space Cadet dropped? Is it not technically doable? Or is too expensive? Or is there any other reason?I would definitely be in for R3 if front-facing legends are part of it.
Could front-legends make an appearance on a theoretical Symbiosis R3?
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@hhkbp2 I’m curious... Why was the idea of having front-facing Greek legends like the original Space Cadet dropped? Is it not technically doable? Or is too expensive? Or is there any other reason?I would definitely be in for R3 if front-facing legends are part of it.
Could front-legends make an appearance on a theoretical Symbiosis R3?
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I have no idea why you mentioned it to add front-printing to the flat version. Not a lot of people like all R3 version nowadays. And the price of a keyset kit depends on its sold number in significant measure. Given the fact that the sold number of CADR is struggling with MOQ for now. It's not practical to add front-printing legends to it and then price is raised more.
Sorry if R3 was ambiguous. I was referring to “Round 3”, not Row 3.
Thanks for the rest of your explanation. It makes perfect sense. I just wish we could get front-legends on a next round of this Color Scheme.
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@hhkbp2:
Is there a chance you will run a symbiosis in another color anytime?
Not that i wouldn't like the colors (already ordered this), but since the molds are available wouldn't it be relatively easy to rerun this with other colors?
I ordered Alphas, Modifiers, Numpad, Blue Choices, Gray Choices, Blue Spacebars, Cadet, and Extension kits.
Ouch, that's a pricey meatball! But, I don't think many would disagree that this is going to be one classy set.
And though I'm getting more keys than I need to do so, I'm really looking forward to trying this set out on my future S7 Elephant keyboard.
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/SXTb6LN.png)
this render shows a row 2 "III" cap but when I look at the choices kits it's nowhere to be found...
SA Symbiosis
Open until October 26.
Imagine spending ~$200 just for the keys to complete a HHKB layout 60%.
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Imagine spending ~$200 just for the keys to complete a HHKB layout 60%.
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them hurts i didnt get much more for 300$Imagine spending ~$200 just for the keys to complete a HHKB layout 60%.
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I don't have to imagine. This is what I'm planning: https://imgur.com/a/VXvHsZz
Cost me $275 =(
Imagine spending ~$200 just for the keys to complete a HHKB layout 60%.
Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
I don't have to imagine. This is what I'm planning: https://imgur.com/a/VXvHsZz
Cost me $275 =(
Quote from: Kono Weekly UpdateSA Symbiosis
Open until October 26.
:-X No MOQ/purchase numbers at barely over a week left?
If we are in for CADR and it fails will there be time for us to change to other orders? How will that be handled?
I hate I can’t join this GB, I just paid $290 for a set I hope extras are available when production completes. It’s a beautiful set, just don’t want to go overboard w/
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I don't have to imagine. This is what I'm planning: https://imgur.com/a/VXvHsZz
Cost me $275 =(
Does anybody want to split a spacekeys kit with me? I want the grey spacekeys but don’t need the blue ones. I’d cover shipping if anyone’s interested.if CADR gets made, I won't be using the space bar, so it's up for grabs. As are German-specific keys.
Thanks, appreciate it, I plan to pick up the $210 uniform ...But there won't be a uniform key set at all, unless you (and a few more) order it now, as I understood previous posts.
some of these people commenting i dont think understand what there doing/saying lolHow is that? Never mind, I get it JKush463, I didn’t follow all this post’s comments. It’s on me, so my apologies.
pulled the trigger for alphas and 40%.I take it you use an ortho 40%
Darn my apologies, I havent followed the whole post, just pointed out what I’d like when extras are available, my apologiesThanks, appreciate it, I plan to pick up the $210 uniform ...But there won't be a uniform key set at all, unless you (and a few more) order it now, as I understood previous posts.
Is it true that zFrontier will have their own price breakpoint at each MOQ hit while us US proxy won't do that?I need to know this as well.
Ordered CADR and Alpha set and some modifier sets (40, ortho, and NoDe), from zFrontier, and hoping to use them for two keyboard builds.
If CADR doesn't happen, I'll likely like to withdraw some of the modifier sets I've ordered. Would be a real shame if CADR doesn't happen.
I have a lingering feeling that Kono, by having fixed prices, get all upside, and no downside: i.e. a set doesn't get into profitable quantity, -- they pull the plugg. A set "over-sells" -- they reap the benefits. I don't mean to sound... I was going to say "ungrateful", but lord knows we're paying for it so, not the right word here...
When is/was the timeframe where Kono was making it clear which kits weren't going to pass, so that buyers could alter their orders? Their weekly updates on this GB have not been very helpful.
I talked to Andrew two days ago and he said he would post about letting CADR buyers to adjust their orders in one day or two after the GB closes if CADR doesn't happen.
I will check with him about the price points, how CADR's doing, etc.
I talked to Andrew two days ago and he said he would post about letting CADR buyers to adjust their orders in one day or two after the GB closes if CADR doesn't happen.
I will check with him about the price points, how CADR's doing, etc.
Apologies for being straightforward, but it was just a bit confusing how kono store handles this. On one hand, they don't offer pricebreak for each MOQ hit since they said they already "considered" that into the price. But on the other hand, for kits that potentially not going to make it like the CADR, they would not let it go through. It's a win-win for the vendor and not very fair for the buyers. If we are charged with premium with no breakpoint, I expect all kits to be made since the prices already factor in everything. I remember one of the reason kono store would not off price breakpoint was due to the complexity across different vendors, and I completely understand that. However, it seems like zFrontier still manages to do it and offers breakpoint for their buyers. I just don't see why Kono couldn't do the same?
I bought a few kits because I wanted to outfit a few of my boards. It is kinda weird for a GB to not disclose information about price breaks, although I wasn’t worried too much about that. I think it’s kind of out of the hands of hhkbp2, as Kono is running the buy. There should have been better communication from Kono themselves. I emailed them a while back about a different set I had questions about and they were pretty prompt on replying. I hope they can clear these questions up before the buy is over.
I bought a few kits because I wanted to outfit a few of my boards. It is kinda weird for a GB to not disclose information about price breaks, although I wasn’t worried too much about that. I think it’s kind of out of the hands of hhkbp2, as Kono is running the buy. There should have been better communication from Kono themselves. I emailed them a while back about a different set I had questions about and they were pretty prompt on replying. I hope they can clear these questions up before the buy is over.
Yea no I totally agree with you. In the end, Kono is the vendor so they have all rights to practice any kind of pricing as they wish. Totally agree that hhkp2 has nothing to do with this, and I never brought him in. I just hope Kono could be more transparent with all the pricing and breakpoints and all. I mean I'm not complaining or anything as I already purchased a few kits myself but seeing other vendor could establish a breakpoint while we can't just makes me feel a little bit unfair that's all.
I remember one of the reason kono store would not off price breakpoint was due to the complexity across different vendors, and I completely understand that. However, it seems like zFrontier still manages to do it and offers breakpoint for their buyers. I just don't see why Kono couldn't do the same?
Where are the zFrontier price break points posted? I don't see it on their English nor Chinese GB pages.
But it just says *some* kits have unlocked a lower price point and that zFrontier will refund the difference after the GB ends.
Where are the zFrontier price break points posted? I don't see it on their English nor Chinese GB pages.
It was in one of their weekly updates. https://en.zfrontier.com/blogs/project-updates/project-updates-oct-23-2018
CADR will be made. So we succeeded to make all kits happen, no more order adjustment is necessary due to MOQ failure.Fantastic! Thanks!
Thanks for everyone who gave feedback, contributed, helped or joined this project(GB/pre-order). We succeeded to make all kits! Cheers!
1. CADR will be made. So we succeeded to make all kits happen, no more order adjustment is necessary due to MOQ failure.
2. The price points issue that Zfrontier mentioned before was due to communication mistakes.
3. The GB was closed and it's moved to "pre-order" phase. You could still buy the available kits but the prices would be higher than what's in GB phase.
4. The production order is about to placed to SP
Would it be possible to get a render with Nordic keys?
I get a feeling it might look a bit weird as all other alphas have dual signs but the three accent keys don't.
We have order acknowledgement from Signature Plastics. We expect these arrive at our warehouse in August 2019.
The order had been placed to SP. Refer to Kono Store Weekly Update (11/15):QuoteWe have order acknowledgement from Signature Plastics. We expect these arrive at our warehouse in August 2019.
How long will preorders be open?
Bought the kits some weeks ago in zF.
It says pre-order, so I should be fine right?
Will zF have the extras too (supposedly will be shipped by Kono)?
Sorry for asking it here! Because zF customer support is near non-existent.
Thanks for the update! Even in times of little actual progress, just keeping in touch is appreciated!
I'm still very much looking forward to this set, as I'm planning to use it on my S7 Elephant.
I plan to use it on another retro keyboard kit myself. ;D
Oooooh, which one? Or is it a surprise? :D
😁
Oooooh, which one? Or is it a surprise? :D
😁
It's gonna take a long time to wait before we could get this keyset in our hands. I would rather not to uncover my keyboard for now. I might show it at the end after it's built. :p
I really wish I wasn't broke right now, too many good drops going on at once.
Definitely interested in it but having to buy through zfrontier is putting me off - heard some pretty negative things about them
Update:
I received a picture of color samples from Kono:
Color Samples (https://imgur.com/a/J4CQfqB)
The colors look fine.
I noticed that the F1 legend is in small legend, which is wrong. In real production, the F row should have bigger function legends. It's in the specifications that I sent to Kono and SP. Since Kono is talking to SP most of the time after the GB was scheduled, I had told Kono to make sure that SP will read the specifications before production and use bigger function legends for real products.
There is no sample for the cadet legends(alphas, hands & Romans) yet. Kind of surprise to me, because they are the main reason that I called for samples, which was elaborated several times before. Anyway Kono will re-ask SP to make them. I will update if they happen later.
Definitely interested in it but having to buy through zfrontier is putting me off - heard some pretty negative things about themJust to chime in, I've ordered from ZFrontier only twice, but am happy with both experiences. One time was just for a keycap set, but the other was the group buy for the Alf X3 Renova. There was no communication throughout the waiting process of the Renova, however I did get personal communication when it was discovered one of my options on the board was wrong. (I had chosen 3 Led Lamps on the cover, but they did the Renova logo instead.) They were excellent on their communication of this matter, and offered to urge ALF to correct this if I wasn't happy with it. However, I opted to accept it as is.
Update:
I received a picture of color samples from Kono:
Color Samples (https://imgur.com/a/J4CQfqB)
The colors look fine.
I noticed that the F1 legend is in small legend, which is wrong. In real production, the F row should have bigger function legends. It's in the specifications that I sent to Kono and SP. Since Kono is talking to SP most of the time after the GB was scheduled, I had told Kono to make sure that SP will read the specifications before production and use bigger function legends for real products.
There is no sample for the cadet legends(alphas, hands & Romans) yet. Kind of surprise to me, because they are the main reason that I called for samples, which was elaborated several times before. Anyway Kono will re-ask SP to make them. I will update if they happen later.
Thanks for the update! Even in times of little actual progress, just keeping in touch is appreciated!
I'm still very much looking forward to this set, as I'm planning to use it on my S7 Elephant.
(Attachment Link)
Anyone know how close "GAL" and "WCK" is from each other? @OP, do you have SA oblivion on hand? would love to see how that could match up? :)
Anyone know how close "GAL" and "WCK" is from each other? @OP, do you have SA oblivion on hand? would love to see how that could match up? :)
"WCK" is much whiter. Sorry I don't have SA Oblivion on my hand now. Why did you ask this?
Any update on this GB? Is there an ETA for when we might receive the keyset?
Any update on this GB? Is there an ETA for when we might receive the keyset?
We just had the update for color samples a few days ago in post above. The estimated shipping date is on GB/Pre-order webpage of vendors, which is September. And Kono has weekly update (https://kono.store/pages/weekly-update).
If i order the ergodox kit, does it come with alphas or just the modifiers (in the picture on KONO.com)?
$120 seems like a lot for just modifiers...
Hi,
I ordered a few sets including the NorDeUK kit and just noticed the following mistake in the NorDeUK kit (as pictured on the Kono website) and wanted to ask, if someone here can tell me if this mistake will be corrected before the production begins:
The NorDeUK kit contains the Y and Z keycap with swapped profile, because on a German keyboard they are the other way round. The problem is that the Y and Z key of the NorDeUK kit keep the same secondary legends, which means they are swapped as well and then they don't correspond with the neighboring keys anymore.
Or to state it differently:
The German Y needs the secondary legend of the standard Z and
the German Z needs the secondary legend of the standard Y.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Thanks for your reply.
I read sometimes, that people argue, that there are no more international kits available, because so few people buy them. Well, that may just be the reason: That they're not designed/made well.
(Another example, I'm a "victim" of, are the messed-up legends of the MT3 /dev/tty international kit.)
I just hope I can cancel the preorder ....
Thanks for your reply.
...that there are no more international kits available, because so few people buy them. Well, that may just be the reason: That they're not designed/made well.
I think the "not designed/made well" is more of an effect than a cause...
Making Norde/UK kits with the correct legend drives up the price like crazy -> no one buys -> therefore manufacturers will not do it
But then people complain the lack of Norde/UK kits -> manufacturers recycle base legends as compromise -> people complain about incorrect legends / refuse to buy -> low quantity observed in GB -> manufacturers don't want to do them anymore
I feel like no one wins here...
Is there any estimate on the shipping time?
Ahhh I just missed getting the alphas so i could complete my ergodox design with these =( It will probably still work well with the extra 1.5 CADRs hopefully
Ahhh I just missed getting the alphas so i could complete my ergodox design with these =( It will probably still work well with the extra 1.5 CADRs hopefully
I don't understand what happened to you but beware of the CADR has uniform R3 profile while the other kits have sculpted profile.
Ahhh I just missed getting the alphas so i could complete my ergodox design with these =( It will probably still work well with the extra 1.5 CADRs hopefully
I don't understand what happened to you but beware of the CADR has uniform R3 profile while the other kits have sculpted profile.
It seems they're out of preorders of the alphas?
Yes, I am aware of the CADR's uniform. I will build a uniform with the few ergodox R3 keys and the CARD set, if that would work.
Ahhh I just missed getting the alphas so i could complete my ergodox design with these =( It will probably still work well with the extra 1.5 CADRs hopefully
I don't understand what happened to you but beware of the CADR has uniform R3 profile while the other kits have sculpted profile.
It seems they're out of preorders of the alphas?
Yes, I am aware of the CADR's uniform. I will build a uniform with the few ergodox R3 keys and the CARD set, if that would work.
Zfrontier is still selling alphas.
https://en.zfrontier.com/collections/keysets/products/sa-symbiosis-2?variant=12547461382222
kono got them back in stock too. I had to ask support to combine some orders ;D
As a keycaps noob, can anyone explain to me what following sets are for? 40s (40% keyboards?), Ortho looks like another 40 as well?
I assume Colevrak is for both dvorak and colemak layouts?
As an emacsOS user and a student of hacking history, I'm really excited for this set!
Thanks!
kono got them back in stock too. I had to ask support to combine some orders ;D
As a keycaps noob, can anyone explain to me what following sets are for? 40s (40% keyboards?), Ortho looks like another 40 as well?
I assume Colevrak is for both dvorak and colemak layouts?
As an emacsOS user and a student of hacking history, I'm really excited for this set!
Thanks!
What is EmacsOS? Or do you mean Emacs? Or indeed some sort of OS booting up a computer that runs on Lisp and then Emacs?? If that is the later case, then it is some super exciting news for me. I have seen someone who built a kernel and a super simple barebone OS based on Lisp a year or two ago - not sure if it has become usable.I mean emacs. I always call it emacsOS publicly because of the joke "the only thing emacs lacks is a good editor" :))
For information about a new keyboard design to pair this keycap set - join the waitlist here - https://kono.store/products/input-club-symbolic-keyboard
Kono store updated with this yesterday. Not sure if this was previously posted.QuoteFor information about a new keyboard design to pair this keycap set - join the waitlist here - https://kono.store/products/input-club-symbolic-keyboardShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/CNoWEku.png)
Is GB and Pre-Order price different or same?
Was a little worried when I saw those samples, but glad to know that you'll be checking in with them. Hoping for some good news soon
Kono store updated with this yesterday. Not sure if this was previously posted.QuoteFor information about a new keyboard design to pair this keycap set - join the waitlist here - https://kono.store/products/input-club-symbolic-keyboardShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/CNoWEku.png)
Thumb-up looks different than finger-pointing-left. Larger and the line is thicker. Hopefully consistency will be ensured? Maybe that's just me though...
Kono store updated with this yesterday. Not sure if this was previously posted.QuoteFor information about a new keyboard design to pair this keycap set - join the waitlist here - https://kono.store/products/input-club-symbolic-keyboardShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/CNoWEku.png)
Em, The legends are smaller than I expected. Will try to enlarge them later. Thanks for the post.
Add:
It's good to know the legend samples were out so soon. I double checked my artwork source file with these samples, and did a comparison:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/WrAT3TW.png)
These legends on latest samples are smaller. I need to talk to Kono and SP, to figure out what's wrong. I will make sure the production goes out well enough (to fulfill my expectation). Will keep updating. Thanks.
Kono store updated with this yesterday. Not sure if this was previously posted.QuoteFor information about a new keyboard design to pair this keycap set - join the waitlist here - https://kono.store/products/input-club-symbolic-keyboardShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/CNoWEku.png)
Em, The legends are smaller than I expected. Will try to enlarge them later. Thanks for the post.
Add:
It's good to know the legend samples were out so soon. I double checked my artwork source file with these samples, and did a comparison:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/WrAT3TW.png)
These legends on latest samples are smaller. I need to talk to Kono and SP, to figure out what's wrong. I will make sure the production goes out well enough (to fulfill my expectation). Will keep updating. Thanks.
Hi!
I'm currently building the keyboard case to hold these keycaps, and I'm wondering what the hue/color specification is for the gray keyes?
yeah that was my first thought when i saw the samples, "wow it's too small" ...hope you can get it looking perfect :)
But (taking a big step back) if the legends don't look good (to me) after all the effort, for the record I would cancel the GB if I have to. (Some buyers and Kono, SP would hate this). And you should be able to get your money back then.
yeah that was my first thought when i saw the samples, "wow it's too small" ...hope you can get it looking perfect :)
I'm trying to communicate with Kono and SP to figure out what's wrong. I think that I, Kono and SP together could pull it off in the end. It's not rocket science. But (taking a big step back) if the legends don't look good (to me) after all the effort, for the record I would cancel the GB if I have to. (Some buyers and Kono, SP would hate this). And you should be able to get your money back then.
yeah that was my first thought when i saw the samples, "wow it's too small" ...hope you can get it looking perfect :)
I'm trying to communicate with Kono and SP to figure out what's wrong. I think that I, Kono and SP together could pull it off in the end. It's not rocket science. But (taking a big step back) if the legends don't look good (to me) after all the effort, for the record I would cancel the GB if I have to. (Some buyers and Kono, SP would hate this). And you should be able to get your money back then.
Man I hope it'll never come to that. The set is one of my most favourite and I went in pretty deep with the pre-order :(
yeah that was my first thought when i saw the samples, "wow it's too small" ...hope you can get it looking perfect :)
I'm trying to communicate with Kono and SP to figure out what's wrong. I think that I, Kono and SP together could pull it off in the end. It's not rocket science. But (taking a big step back) if the legends don't look good (to me) after all the effort, for the record I would cancel the GB if I have to. (Some buyers and Kono, SP would hate this). And you should be able to get your money back then.
From the look of things, it may be more complicated than that, although according to info from the IC thread, SP confirmed there should be no problems. It was also mentioned in the IC thread that 7Bit never replied to OP’s request for permission to use the Cadet mold.yeah that was my first thought when i saw the samples, "wow it's too small" ...hope you can get it looking perfect :)
I'm trying to communicate with Kono and SP to figure out what's wrong. I think that I, Kono and SP together could pull it off in the end. It's not rocket science. But (taking a big step back) if the legends don't look good (to me) after all the effort, for the record I would cancel the GB if I have to. (Some buyers and Kono, SP would hate this). And you should be able to get your money back then.
Do they not have the original molds? I thought R2 meant everything would be squared away... (Or they have 7Bit's Space Cadet molds too?)
Do they not have the original molds? I thought R2 meant everything would be squared away... (Or they have 7Bit's Space Cadet molds too?)
Do they not have the original molds? I thought R2 meant everything would be squared away... (Or they have 7Bit's Space Cadet molds too?)
We have the right to use Symbiosis R1 tooling. But the R1 legends don't look good enough so we will make new ones. As for 7bit's mold, I had no luck to get his permission to use that so it's not possible.
Any word on if they can improve the new legends to the correct size?
Still working on it. I will post if there is any update. ;)
Any word on if they can improve the new legends to the correct size?
Still working on it. I will post if there is any update. ;)
But (taking a big step back) if the legends don't look good (to me) after all the effort, for the record I would cancel the GB if I have to. (Some buyers and Kono, SP would hate this). And you should be able to get your money back then.
Does SA Symbiosis R1 exist? If so, are its legends correct?
Apologies for the ignorant question, I haven't really been keeping up with the hobby
Does SA Symbiosis R1 exist? If so, are its legends correct?
Of course it exists. SA Symbiosis R1 was all Row 3, though.
Is that from SP? I know it’s not R5/6 but the legends look like Maxkey almost
Is that from SP? I know it’s not R5/6 but the legends look like Maxkey almost
It's not a sculpted set, it's all R3.
Any update on what keys we need to get for the hypothetical Input Club Symbolics keyboard? seems like getting a layout similar to the original symbolics keyboard would require a combination of the different modifier sets currently available
Why you want an "update" from OP for a product unrelated to this run?
Could anyone let me know why the CADR All Uniform R3 has been removed again :( Im intend to get this kit...
Any update on what keys we need to get for the hypothetical Input Club Symbolics keyboard? seems like getting a layout similar to the original symbolics keyboard would require a combination of the different modifier sets currently available
7 sets? I believe that warrants you a medal!They’re 7 different kits, not sets, so I can have two boards with them being on. Also, to SP SA lately, it’s unlikely one can order 1 or 2 kits for a full board.
Hi hhkbp2, thank you for following up the samples. I really appreciate your attitude when the samples don’t go well.
I’ve ordered 7 kits (gb +preorder) in total and this is by far the most I have spent on keycaps.
I really hope the GB will not be canceled and at the end of the day, everyone will receive what they have been waiting for.
PS:
It's no strongly related to this GB. But I don't know any better place to shout out for help.
I'm working on some project that's inspired by the Symbolics PN 364000 keyboard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolics#/media/File:Symbolics-keyboard.jpg). And I need some help. If you do have the keyboard and would like to give some help, or you know any of your friend do, please message me in private. Thanks!
apparently the ergodox and colevark kits sold out in on kono, is there any way to still buy them? this is probably one of my favorite sets but I might have waited too much to buy it...
apparently the ergodox and colevark kits sold out in on kono, is there any way to still buy them? this is probably one of my favorite sets but I might have waited too much to buy it...
Same here! I am in love with this set!
Hi all. As a blanket response, yes this is still a thing, but the latest is SP has come up against some molding issues:QuoteWe have run into a molding issue with the tooling and at this time our lead time on completion for SA-P is uncertain.
We are again at the mercy of the Plastic Gods. I'd like to get a lead time fixed so this doesn't become another keyboard blackhole of uncertainty so no GB until we have a firm target. My black little hart wouldn't be able to take supply issues further down the line, and I'm sure none of you want any GB drams either.
Perhaps a little game of I Spy? Alternatively maybe now is the time to get done that thing you've been putting off doing? I'm off to find my passport which my past self put in a safe place that in theory my future self would either know or be able to deduce so v :)) v
Not OP, but unlikely. SA Glow is PBT, this is ABS. They use different tooling entirely, IIRC.Hi all. As a blanket response, yes this is still a thing, but the latest is SP has come up against some molding issues:QuoteWe have run into a molding issue with the tooling and at this time our lead time on completion for SA-P is uncertain.
We are again at the mercy of the Plastic Gods. I'd like to get a lead time fixed so this doesn't become another keyboard blackhole of uncertainty so no GB until we have a firm target. My black little hart wouldn't be able to take supply issues further down the line, and I'm sure none of you want any GB drams either.
Perhaps a little game of I Spy? Alternatively maybe now is the time to get done that thing you've been putting off doing? I'm off to find my passport which my past self put in a safe place that in theory my future self would either know or be able to deduce so v :)) v
I saw this posted in the Glow IC thread. Will this affect the buy?
I saw this posted in the Glow IC thread. Will this affect the buy?Not OP, but unlikely. SA Glow is PBT, this is ABS. They use different tooling entirely, IIRC.
apparently the ergodox and colevark kits sold out in on kono, is there any way to still buy them? this is probably one of my favorite sets but I might have waited too much to buy it...
Same here! I am in love with this set!
Same here. So when the next group buy?
BTW. Are we doomed to always use USA based Signature Plastics and wait another years for availability of this wonderful set?
Could we get a worse quality set from a Shenzhen shop in the meantime?
is there any eta on new legend samples?
There is no plan for the next.Thank you so much for the answer. I’m new to this and wanted to finally buy key caps for my birthday in September
Probably a little late for this, but I just noticed that the Extension kit has row 2 Page Up and row 3 Page Down, but no row 4 End for 65 percent boards. Seems a little strange, is that intentional?
New to buying keycaps, but how do pre-orders work regarding this set? Most of the kits still seems available on zFrontier, so I just want to check if I can still grab this set for my new build :p
New to buying keycaps, but how do pre-orders work regarding this set? Most of the kits still seems available on zFrontier, so I just want to check if I can still grab this set for my new build :p
Pre-order means the vendors ordered a few extra after the GB closed, and you could buy as long as they're not sold out. Your order will be shipped after vendors receive productions from SP, just like what will happen for the buyers who joined the GB.
"We have order acknowledgement from Signature Plastics. We received our second set of production samples and are reviewing them with the designer. Production slot is still locked in."
Any pictures?
"We have order acknowledgement from Signature Plastics. We received our second set of production samples and are reviewing them with the designer. Production slot is still locked in."
Any pictures?
I have not seen any picture yet. Will let you know if there is any update or picture. :)
Any updates? Has Kono reached out to you yet? It's been a week since they said they received the new samples.
Last time Kono received samples they added pictures on their web site. Now they are not updating the site and they are keeping designer in the dark. I hope the lack of update does not mean that the new samples are ****e.
Looks way better. Did they change the color as well? The old image looks like the standard R5/R6 grey color, while the new looks like the Cadet grey.
I contacted Kono and politely asked about the new samples image. They said they sent it to hhkbp2 and would update the site soon with it, but in case people here want to check it out earlier, they sent it to me as well and I'm posting them.
I resized and put them side-by-side with the old/first samples so we can better see the changes in proportion. At least to me, they look great now.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/WinUccI.png)
Would anyone here be prepared to sell me their UK RETURN key and if possible an ESC key in the yellow?
I contacted Kono and politely asked about the new samples image. They said they sent it to hhkbp2 and would update the site soon with it, but in case people here want to check it out earlier, they sent it to me as well and I'm posting them.
I resized and put them side-by-side with the old/first samples so we can better see the changes in proportion. At least to me, they look great now.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/WinUccI.png)
Looks way better. Did they change the color as well? The old image looks like the standard R5/R6 grey color, while the new looks like the Cadet grey.
They could have changed the color, but as a former professional photographer with 10 years of experience, I can assure you the difference in color we see could also have been easily caused by difference in white balance and lighting.
The first/old image looks warmer to me, with a bit of red in there, while the second looks cooler. That's often how grey reacts with small changes in white balance. Judging by the white, the second/newer image looks more accurate to my eyes and my calibrated monitor.
SP told me that the artwork of novelties "symbiosis" that I gave them before was too big to fit a 2.25u legendable area. I would make it smaller to fit and change the legend to "symbolics" so that it looks better even when becoming smaller. It's a minor change but I would like to let you guys know.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/bUcJdXD.jpg)
SP is cutting the legends for the production. They don't have the specific date to start the production yet but it's coming closer. It's a long time for this run but the finishing line is in sight. Cheers!
kono's portal is giving out 502 error, do they not exist anymore? Sincerely hope that its a technical error. too invested in this set.
kono's portal is giving out 502 error, do they not exist anymore? Sincerely hope that its a technical error. too invested in this set.
Is that SA Hacker something you gonna run soon?
Is that SA Hacker something you gonna run soon?
I also am watching that very closely. Looks great I think.
Do you think the September timeline Kono still lists as locked in will be indeed come to fruition?
I'd like to know this as well. KONO's updates states that this set will be shipping in September. That means this set must be in production or nearing production soon I'm order to hit they deadline?
Do you think the September timeline Kono still lists as locked in will be indeed come to fruition?I'd like to know this as well. KONO's updates states that this set will be shipping in September. That means this set must be in production or nearing production soon I'm order to hit they deadline?
I still need some time to tune the alphas legends. The last cut of alphas legends looked probably too big when paired with the whole number row together, and I would like to give another try on using the standard sizes for these legends. This was not going on very well. It needs communication and cooperation between me, Kono and SP, like it used to. But I have not heard from Kono for a while. Have no idea what kept they so busy that they did not even have the time to take a look at the emails and reply.
But in the other hand, SP told me that some other kits had been in production. They were quite rushed to do the production run while I was still verifying and tuning the legends.
I got no much info about the whole plan of SP production dates and Kono delivery dates, etc. Kono should be in charge of all these and do the coordination but Kono was absent these days. It's hard for me to estimate the actual shipping date under current situation. I suspect there will be delay but I don't have a clear idea of that. Sorry I don't have the answers of your questions for now.
I still need some time to tune the alphas legends. The last cut of alphas legends looked probably too big when paired with the whole number row together, and I would like to give another try on using the standard sizes for these legends.Standard SP SA R1 number row legends were too small next to Symbiosis 2.0 second iteration R2 alphas? V2 alphas looked good to me. How can you have too big legends on SA caps...? :))
Is this SA Space Cadet with a new name or have I mistaken?If you are talking about GMK Space Cadet, but in SA profile, no. That is Oblotzky's creation. He has minimal, or no ties with this keyset.
Standard SP SA R1 number row legends were too small next to Symbiosis 2.0 second iteration R2 alphas? V2 alphas looked good to me. How can you have too big legends on SA caps...? :))
7bit legends are really pushing the cap boundaries and they look great!
From what I understand 7bit used his own, or another font for certain legends?
Is this SA Space Cadet with a new name or have I mistaken?If you are talking about GMK Space Cadet, but in SA profile, no. That is Oblotzky's creation. He has minimal, or no ties with this keyset.
This is Symbiosis R2, a play on "Symbolics", the manufacturer name of that Space Cadet keyboard.
Hi hhkbp2,
Thanks for taking up the task of making this keyset happen, and working through the communication issues behind the scenes! I joined for a big pile of kits as soon as group buy went live, and I'm super excited for it.
I registered first to say thanks, but also to register my interest in having the alphas remain large. The alpha legends are the star of the show, in my opinion. I'd most rather see numeric row legends enlarged to match the large alpha legends. Barring that, I'd rather see large alpha legends with standard numeric legends, even if it means they're not perfect and slightly mismatched. Just my two cents.
Hi hhkbp2,
Thanks for taking up the task of making this keyset happen, and working through the communication issues behind the scenes! I joined for a big pile of kits as soon as group buy went live, and I'm super excited for it.
I registered first to say thanks, but also to register my interest in having the alphas remain large. The alpha legends are the star of the show, in my opinion. I'd most rather see numeric row legends enlarged to match the large alpha legends. Barring that, I'd rather see large alpha legends with standard numeric legends, even if it means they're not perfect and slightly mismatched. Just my two cents.
Thanks for your support! I agree that the alphas legends are important to this design. That's why I'm quite cautious (and maybe picky) on these legends.
I'm afraid the first option you mentioned is not possible for now because the order was placed to SP to use the standard number row legends. Between the options of "bigger size alphas + standard size number row" and "standard size alphas + number row", it's a trade off to make the choice: localized optimization for bigger alphas legends, or better compatibility for all legends. The difference between bigger size and standard size is about 10~12%. Still noticeable but the difference is not that big, not as big as the biggest 7bit creation(even bigger than the latest samples picture we have on this thread) vs Symbiosis R1 legends. Previously 7bit made a version of alphas on the standard sizes and it looks good, although he customized the number row legends as well to make them have wider shapes. That's why I would like to give another try before approving the alphas' production.
On this issue, we're stuck for a few weeks. I should already have real key samples of both sizes to show you guys for a better description, if things go well. But, well, currently I have to wait for the vendor's appearance and then work with all parties to continue this project.
Kono says this GB is starting shipping in September is this still true? when do you think any major update will take place?
I got in touch and exchanged a few emails with Kono regarding this set. I won't get in details because we don't need to worry or stir up any drama, but the gist of it is that the September timeline will not be honored due to multiple delays, including having to remake and correct the legends and the fact that they're a really small team (3 people only) who got a lot on their plate, so communication can be slow at times.
Let's all try to be understanding and accept that delays and communication issues happen, but ultimately what will make this set come to production and fruition successfully is us keeping our cool and patience, no need to constantly ask or pressure anyone about it.
Kono will work the details for the final design with hhkbp2 and it will go into production soon after.
Purple caps seem to have standard SP legends. You don't think the Symbiosis alpha legends don't look good next to purple cap legends sizewise?Show Image(https://imgur.com/ThlZcTC.jpg)
Purple caps seem to have standard SP legends. You don't think the Symbiosis alpha legends don't look good next to purple cap legends sizewise?
For the alphas legends, I received picture of the new samples from SP as the middle row of the following:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/hNDNf8T.jpg)
Don't mind the colors of these sample keys, they will be in the Symbiosis color theme in real production.
The new sample legends were tuned a bit smaller. They're in the so-called standard sizes as we discussed before and they match the standard number row legends better in term of compatibility. I think we should use this latest version for the production.
So the legends issue settled. I will work with SP for the rest and let them start production for this part then.
Thanks for your support and patience. Will keep updating if there is news.
For the alphas legends, I received picture of the new samples from SP as the middle row of the following:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/hNDNf8T.jpg)
Don't mind the colors of these sample keys, they will be in the Symbiosis color theme in real production.
The new sample legends were tuned a bit smaller. They're in the so-called standard sizes as we discussed before and they match the standard number row legends better in term of compatibility. I think we should use this latest version for the production.
So the legends issue settled. I will work with SP for the rest and let them start production for this part then.
Thanks for your support and patience. Will keep updating if there is news.
For the alphas legends, I received picture of the new samples from SP as the middle row of the following:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/hNDNf8T.jpg)
Don't mind the colors of these sample keys, they will be in the Symbiosis color theme in real production.
The new sample legends were tuned a bit smaller. They're in the so-called standard sizes as we discussed before and they match the standard number row legends better in term of compatibility. I think we should use this latest version for the production.
So the legends issue settled. I will work with SP for the rest and let them start production for this part then.
Thanks for your support and patience. Will keep updating if there is news.
Can't wait for this set. Been reloading the Kono and Zfrontier pages like a madperson for the last few months. […]Isn’t this GB already over?
True, but from time to time there are extras available. I've been able to find a nearly full set by just checking the Kono and Zfrontier everyday.Can't wait for this set. Been reloading the Kono and Zfrontier pages like a madperson for the last few months. […]Isn’t this GB already over?
Is there any chance volume might be increased for the Choices? Or has anyone on this thread pre-ordered but since lost interest? I would be delighted to be able to get my hands on a Choices set.
About the Alphas legends, I got a picture of real keycaps from SP:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ro63HGe.jpg)
Look good. It's the final version and should be the same as what you will get after the production and delivery.
The production is still running. SP didn't give me the date when it will be done so I don't know what's the delay for delivery. Sorry! Please wait with patience. I will keep updating on news.
About the Alphas legends, I got a picture of real keycaps from SP:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ro63HGe.jpg)
Look good. It's the final version and should be the same as what you will get after the production and delivery.
The production is still running. SP didn't give me the date when it will be done so I don't know what's the delay for delivery. Sorry! Please wait with patience. I will keep updating on news.
About the Alphas legends, I got a picture of real keycaps from SP:
Look good. It's the final version and should be the same as what you will get after the production and delivery.
The production is still running. SP didn't give me the date when it will be done so I don't know what's the delay for delivery. Sorry! Please wait with patience. I will keep updating on news.
I got message from SP that the production was finished. They're collating all the sets. It should be soon for them to do the shipment to Kono.
And it should be soon once Kono receives the production, and then start to ship your orders.
Here are some of pictures of the production kits:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/LyLv5FX.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/FaiNVMF.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/MOWC8cE.jpg)
There are many kits in the GB, I'm gonna let you find out what they look like rather than post them all here. ;D
Cheers.
s p a r e a l p h a s p l z
s p a r e a l p h a s p l z
Probably you've already known, when the GB started, alphas were the most affordable kit ($40 or so), comparing to other non-sense pricey kits (yes, cadet and spacekeys, looking at you). I've known people bought a bunch of alphas only. You will surely find them in the aftermarket at sometimes.
I got message from SP that the production was finished. They're collating all the sets. It should be soon for them to do the shipment to Kono.
And it should be soon once Kono receives the production, and then start to ship your orders.
Here are some of pictures of the production kits:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/LyLv5FX.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/FaiNVMF.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/MOWC8cE.jpg)
There are many kits in the GB, I'm gonna let you find out what the rest look like rather than post them all here. ;D
Cheers.
I got message from SP that the production was finished. They're collating all the sets. It should be soon for them to do the shipment to Kono.
And it should be soon once Kono receives the production, and then start to ship your orders.
Here are some of pictures of the production kits:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/LyLv5FX.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/FaiNVMF.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/MOWC8cE.jpg)
There are many kits in the GB, I'm gonna let you find out what the rest look like rather than post them all here. ;D
Cheers.
So, after waiting for the set for 6 months, I get a message from Kono they oversold some of the kits (ortho in my case) and I won't be getting it :(
Kono, I am disappoint.
So apparently, Kono oversold many kits and are cancelling orders.
Are other vendors going to be doing the same? Zfrontier? Etc?
...
We're working with SP to have a second, smaller run of the most popular Symbiosis sets early next year...
... together with some of the affected orders...
Any idea when zfrontier should be shipping orders?
Did you participate in GB, or did you order it after GB end as a pre-order items?
I'm trying to understand whether Kono cancels orders randomly or cutting off pre-orders only.If I understand correctly it's just the late pre-orders.
We're finalizing some details and preparing a freight pickup right now.
Keycaps aren’t cheap, I’m not sure I’m going to trust Kono again after watching this.Although I do understand mistakes happen occasionally, I will also hesitate ordering from Kono in the future. My $140 was blocked for 6 months with nothing to show for it.
SA Symbiosis
Symbiosis has shipped from Signature Plastics is now on the way to our warehouse!
I'm trying to understand whether Kono cancels orders randomly or cutting off pre-orders only.
I had a pre-order ship (placed may 2019), while my groupbuy order (from October 2018) is still listed as unfulfilled.
Have reached out to Kono for clarification on what’s going on. Hoping nothing’s gone awry with my groupbuy order given those are the caps I truly need.
I had the same thing happen, the next day (yesterday) my GB portion of the order shipped. I'd just recommend giving it a day or two for things to settle out.
Shipping for zfrontier will not happen for another 2 weeks. SP delayed their shipment and it is currently in transit to their warehouse atm.
Sorry to anybody still waiting or got cancelled... I'm typing this on my set which came in today ;D
(Attachment Link)
For the record, I'm just getting into this stuff, so this is my first custom keycap set and first attempt at this level of customization. Not used to waiting for over a year to receive an order but I think it was worth it.
(More pics here) (https://imgur.com/gallery/exNpwSt)
Sorry to anybody still waiting or got cancelled... I'm typing this on my set which came in today ;D
(Attachment Link)
For the record, I'm just getting into this stuff, so this is my first custom keycap set and first attempt at this level of customization. Not used to waiting for over a year to receive an order but I think it was worth it.
(More pics here) (https://imgur.com/gallery/exNpwSt)
... labels too big ...
... majority of labels is white and the rest is black‑too much colors ...
Sorry to anybody still waiting or got cancelled... I'm typing this on my set which came in today ;D
(Attachment Link)
For the record, I'm just getting into this stuff, so this is my first custom keycap set and first attempt at this level of customization. Not used to waiting for over a year to receive an order but I think it was worth it.
(More pics here) (https://imgur.com/gallery/exNpwSt)
If you want me to be more constructive then renders posted here in the past look much better than reality. So if you read this and you are a newcomer like me, keep that in mind when you really want to buy something non‑existing yet—it’s a gamble. Though maybe I’m just annoyed by those additional yellow accents 🤷
(Attachment Link)
I know that we should not feed the trolls, but here those grapes must be very sour.If you want me to be more constructive then renders posted here in the past look much better than reality. So if you read this and you are a newcomer like me, keep that in mind when you really want to buy something non‑existing yet—it’s a gamble. Though maybe I’m just annoyed by those additional yellow accents
(Attachment Link)
Is there anything more petty than complaining about the color of yellow accent keys even though the set comes with blue replacement accent keys?
If you want me to be more constructive then renders posted here in the past look much better than reality. So if you read this and you are a newcomer like me, keep that in mind when you really want to buy something non‑existing yet—it’s a gamble. Though maybe I’m just annoyed by those additional yellow accents 🤷
(Attachment Link)
Let me know if anyone wants to let go of their set(s).
OofThank you. That looks much better and not as toyish as that previous take.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/qqA7Xb6.jpg)
Not sure why you're ****ting onI wanted to check whether I want to buy this set in aftermarket.
Here's another picture in better lighting. I edited it in lightroom to look as close as possible to what I actually see in person.
(Attachment Link)
Here's another picture in better lighting. I edited it in lightroom to look as close as possible to what I actually see in person.
(Attachment Link)
Looks amazing. Now I’m sad I didn’t get the blue modifiers as they are nicer than the renders even conveyed. Can’t wait to get my alphas and grey choices
Here's a comparison between 7bit's Round 6 Space Cadet caps (left) vs Symbiosis R2 (right) for whoever cares.
Ignore the horrible lighting (this is not color accurate), the point is to show how close they are. Biggest difference, like I mentioned, is the size of the legends.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/SZdl27K.jpg)
Here's a comparison between 7bit's Round 6 Space Cadet caps (left) vs Symbiosis R2 (right) for whoever cares.
Ignore the horrible lighting (this is not color accurate), the point is to show how close they are. Biggest difference, like I mentioned, is the size of the legends.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/SZdl27K.jpg)
Here's another picture in better lighting. I edited it in lightroom to look as close as possible to what I actually see in person.
(Attachment Link)
Looks amazing. Now I’m sad I didn’t get the blue modifiers as they are nicer than the renders even conveyed. Can’t wait to get my alphas and grey choices
Here's a comparison between 7bit's Round 6 Space Cadet caps (left) vs Symbiosis R2 (right) for whoever cares.
Ignore the horrible lighting (this is not color accurate), the point is to show how close they are. Biggest difference, like I mentioned, is the size of the legends.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/SZdl27K.jpg)
Here's a comparison between 7bit's Round 6 Space Cadet caps (left) vs Symbiosis R2 (right) for whoever cares.
Ignore the horrible lighting (this is not color accurate), the point is to show how close they are. Biggest difference, like I mentioned, is the size of the legends.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/SZdl27K.jpg)
How are these compared to the 7bit grey numpad? From the few pictures I saw, they're basically identical
I thought about this as well.
I think that was because the Space Cadet Keyboard does not have a numpad.
He could have made the legend fonts totally consistent.
e.g. this one, the numeral row '3' on this German layout set is again just the SP default font.
Sigh... sadly I missed out on this set, and second hand prices are already - as expected - through the roof... I hate flippers.
I sadly could not afford to get a full set of Symbiosis 2.0, but I was able to get just the alphas and mix it with my Godspeed modifiers:
I'll most likely be selling my alphas, mods, spacebars and possibly other kits in a few months if anyone wants to wait. Not interested in flipping, will charge whatever I paid.
did anybody else get what seems to be an R2 "esc" key instead of their delete key, or did i just get "lucky" somehow? this R2 "esc" key isn't even supposed to exist, is it?
turned what was otherwise an exciting arrival into an "oh **** how did i lose a keycap i was so careful?" but i'm sure i didn't lose it and this key seems like its "replacement".
guess i'll contact kono support. set looks awesome otherwise and i'm typing on it right now, but for this price and this amount of waiting time, i deserve to have iet flawless.
did anybody else get what seems to be an R2 "esc" key instead of their delete key, or did i just get "lucky" somehow? this R2 "esc" key isn't even supposed to exist, is it?
turned what was otherwise an exciting arrival into an "oh **** how did i lose a keycap i was so careful?" but i'm sure i didn't lose it and this key seems like its "replacement".
guess i'll contact kono support. set looks awesome otherwise and i'm typing on it right now, but for this price and this amount of waiting time, i deserve to have iet flawless.
R2 Escape was in the 40s kit. If you ordered a 40s kit then I'd check in there for your R1 Escape.
Here's a comparison between 7bit's Round 6 Space Cadet caps (left) vs Symbiosis R2 (right) for whoever cares.
Ignore the horrible lighting (this is not color accurate), the point is to show how close they are. Biggest difference, like I mentioned, is the size of the legends.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/SZdl27K.jpg)
When we look closer, we can see why the SA Rounds (4/5/6) caps of 7bit were so sought after.
For those who want to improve future Groupbuys of keycap sets and their legends, let's click "more" to see the details 7bit has worked on for the 'Rounds' set.
For those who want Geekhack, a supposedly IC & GB website now, that has been more open to critics pushing boundaries to keep on improving our future keyboard life, instead to become more like r/MK that downvote all constructive comments when that is even just slightly more direct and pointing to the fact, then it is okay to skip the "more"MoreShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/KeaHCGN.jpg)
1. The bigger size legends are to resemble the actual keycap set on the genuine Space Cadet keyboardShow Image(http://xahlee.info/kbd/lisp_kbd/space-cadet_keyboard_3.jpg)
Just look at the D and the F keys of Rounds. See how legends on the alpha keys are more "blown-up", and the Rounds capture this design language (other than the usual font parameters of SP) much better.
For a few times, Signature Plastics made the legends too small to 7bit taste, and then 7bit reject those as seconds and sold them in a reduced price.
And now I see that I could have gotten those instead, but I didn't expect 7bit to disappear for such a long time.
2. Also, the legends of 1, 2, and 3 I just discovered and made me see this round as yet even more different from the Rounds.
Look at the numeral keys 1, 2, and 3 -- they are totally different font designs from the Rounds, which resembles the originals on the Space Cadet keyboard which I also prefer.zslane followed for years the thread-of-hundreds pages of 7bit's Rounds Groupbuy on Deskthority and then he himself worked also as PayPal money collector for the Groupbuy. When he eventually ran his Groupbuys with (Mass)Drop, his SA Dasher & Dancer also used similar legends. Look at the beautiful 1, 2, and 3 on the numeric row:Show Image(https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/product-images/dasher-and-dancer-sa-custom-keycap-set/MD-32558_20161215005127_084f84aff98893f7.jpg)
The above was just a render. And in reality:MoreShow Image(http://www.griffy.no/Pics/keyboard/Dasher/2.jpg)
The default Signature Plastic fonts can be seen here on this SA 1976 set, with their SP 1, 2, and 3, and their "F l", "F l O", "F l l", "F l 2":Show Image(https://www.keychatter.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/keychatter_2015-06-16_23-01-16.jpg)
During those time in 2012-2014, I don't know how much time and effort 7bit spent on this endeavor of Rounds - when no one has done that before.
I lived in a county with really bad road surface.
"They already built this and that roads for you, shut up and enjoy it!"
But the roads can be built even better, like in other counties.
Our OP has already done a lot, as shown, in his previous posts.
I am not sure I can say "the sloppy side" is Signature Plastic, but they might just have too many orders going.
One thing for sure in the future GBs is that a few more e-mail exchanges with the manufacturers to ensure the details (e.g. those I am pointing out here) will be worth it.
Here's a comparison between 7bit's Round 6 Space Cadet caps (left) vs Symbiosis R2 (right) for whoever cares.
Ignore the horrible lighting (this is not color accurate), the point is to show how close they are. Biggest difference, like I mentioned, is the size of the legends.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/SZdl27K.jpg)
When we look closer, we can see why the SA Rounds (4/5/6) caps of 7bit were so sought after.
For those who want to improve future Groupbuys of keycap sets and their legends, let's click "more" to see the details 7bit has worked on for the 'Rounds' set.
For those who want Geekhack, a supposedly IC & GB website now, that has been more open to critics pushing boundaries to keep on improving our future keyboard life, instead to become more like r/MK that downvote all constructive comments when that is even just slightly more direct and pointing to the fact, then it is okay to skip the "more"MoreShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/KeaHCGN.jpg)
1. The bigger size legends are to resemble the actual keycap set on the genuine Space Cadet keyboardShow Image(http://xahlee.info/kbd/lisp_kbd/space-cadet_keyboard_3.jpg)
Just look at the D and the F keys of Rounds. See how legends on the alpha keys are more "blown-up", and the Rounds capture this design language (other than the usual font parameters of SP) much better.
For a few times, Signature Plastics made the legends too small to 7bit taste, and then 7bit reject those as seconds and sold them in a reduced price.
And now I see that I could have gotten those instead, but I didn't expect 7bit to disappear for such a long time.
2. Also, the legends of 1, 2, and 3 I just discovered and made me see this round as yet even more different from the Rounds.
Look at the numeral keys 1, 2, and 3 -- they are totally different font designs from the Rounds, which resembles the originals on the Space Cadet keyboard which I also prefer.zslane followed for years the thread-of-hundreds pages of 7bit's Rounds Groupbuy on Deskthority and then he himself worked also as PayPal money collector for the Groupbuy. When he eventually ran his Groupbuys with (Mass)Drop, his SA Dasher & Dancer also used similar legends. Look at the beautiful 1, 2, and 3 on the numeric row:Show Image(https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/product-images/dasher-and-dancer-sa-custom-keycap-set/MD-32558_20161215005127_084f84aff98893f7.jpg)
The above was just a render. And in reality:MoreShow Image(http://www.griffy.no/Pics/keyboard/Dasher/2.jpg)
The default Signature Plastic fonts can be seen here on this SA 1976 set, with their SP 1, 2, and 3, and their "F l", "F l O", "F l l", "F l 2":Show Image(https://www.keychatter.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/keychatter_2015-06-16_23-01-16.jpg)
During those time in 2012-2014, I don't know how much time and effort 7bit spent on this endeavor of Rounds - when no one has done that before.
I lived in a county with really bad road surface.
"They already built this and that roads for you, shut up and enjoy it!"
But the roads can be built even better, like in other counties.
Our OP has already done a lot, as shown, in his previous posts.
I am not sure I can say "the sloppy side" is Signature Plastic, but they might just have too many orders going.
One thing for sure in the future GBs is that a few more e-mail exchanges with the manufacturers to ensure the details (e.g. those I am pointing out here) will be worth it.
To the contrary, I would prefer the current Symbiosis R2 legends rather than the 7-bit round 4/5/6 legends. I mean, I know 7-bit legends for alphas are more closer to the original Symbiosis/Space-Cadet keyboard that developed by MIT, but those "blown-up"/enlarged legends are a little bit out of coordination in nowadays standards. I can totally understand that someone want an exact replica of a "Cherry MX" compatible version Symbiosis/Space-Cadet keycap set, but to me, personally I like the legends on "Cadet Alphas" to be not that enlarged/stretched out.
Here's a comparison between 7bit's Round 6 Space Cadet caps (left) vs Symbiosis R2 (right) for whoever cares.
Ignore the horrible lighting (this is not color accurate), the point is to show how close they are. Biggest difference, like I mentioned, is the size of the legends.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/SZdl27K.jpg)
When we look closer, we can see why the SA Rounds (4/5/6) caps of 7bit were so sought after.
For those who want to improve future Groupbuys of keycap sets and their legends, let's click "more" to see the details 7bit has worked on for the 'Rounds' set.
For those who want Geekhack, a supposedly IC & GB website now, that has been more open to critics pushing boundaries to keep on improving our future keyboard life, instead to become more like r/MK that downvote all constructive comments when that is even just slightly more direct and pointing to the fact, then it is okay to skip the "more"MoreShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/KeaHCGN.jpg)
1. The bigger size legends are to resemble the actual keycap set on the genuine Space Cadet keyboardShow Image(http://xahlee.info/kbd/lisp_kbd/space-cadet_keyboard_3.jpg)
Just look at the D and the F keys of Rounds. See how legends on the alpha keys are more "blown-up", and the Rounds capture this design language (other than the usual font parameters of SP) much better.
For a few times, Signature Plastics made the legends too small to 7bit taste, and then 7bit reject those as seconds and sold them in a reduced price.
And now I see that I could have gotten those instead, but I didn't expect 7bit to disappear for such a long time.
2. Also, the legends of 1, 2, and 3 I just discovered and made me see this round as yet even more different from the Rounds.
Look at the numeral keys 1, 2, and 3 -- they are totally different font designs from the Rounds, which resembles the originals on the Space Cadet keyboard which I also prefer.zslane followed for years the thread-of-hundreds pages of 7bit's Rounds Groupbuy on Deskthority and then he himself worked also as PayPal money collector for the Groupbuy. When he eventually ran his Groupbuys with (Mass)Drop, his SA Dasher & Dancer also used similar legends. Look at the beautiful 1, 2, and 3 on the numeric row:Show Image(https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/product-images/dasher-and-dancer-sa-custom-keycap-set/MD-32558_20161215005127_084f84aff98893f7.jpg)
The above was just a render. And in reality:MoreShow Image(http://www.griffy.no/Pics/keyboard/Dasher/2.jpg)
The default Signature Plastic fonts can be seen here on this SA 1976 set, with their SP 1, 2, and 3, and their "F l", "F l O", "F l l", "F l 2":Show Image(https://www.keychatter.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/keychatter_2015-06-16_23-01-16.jpg)
During those time in 2012-2014, I don't know how much time and effort 7bit spent on this endeavor of Rounds - when no one has done that before.
I lived in a county with really bad road surface.
"They already built this and that roads for you, shut up and enjoy it!"
But the roads can be built even better, like in other counties.
Our OP has already done a lot, as shown, in his previous posts.
I am not sure I can say "the sloppy side" is Signature Plastic, but they might just have too many orders going.
One thing for sure in the future GBs is that a few more e-mail exchanges with the manufacturers to ensure the details (e.g. those I am pointing out here) will be worth it.
To the contrary, I would prefer the current Symbiosis R2 legends rather than the 7-bit round 4/5/6 legends. I mean, I know 7-bit legends for alphas are more closer to the original Symbiosis/Space-Cadet keyboard that developed by MIT, but those "blown-up"/enlarged legends are a little bit out of coordination in nowadays standards. I can totally understand that someone want an exact replica of a "Cherry MX" compatible version Symbiosis/Space-Cadet keycap set, but to me, personally I like the legends on "Cadet Alphas" to be not that enlarged/stretched out.
What are the "nowadays standards", and who is to judge a design is "out of coordination"? Can I say the Planck keyboard is "out of coordination"?
I just pointed out the differences between this run and the rounds, however, it is fair to say OP didn't promise to have a replica of 7bit's Rounds or the design of original Space Cadet keyboard.
I also pointed out SP were reluctant to go through the trouble of swapping their default legends and default legend-size with custom designs, and that down-to-the-details replication effort makes the Rounds rare.
After all, it's a matter of taste for the legend size.
It is also a matter of taste for the legend fonts, if one likes SP's "F l", "F l O", "F l l", "F l 2", and their quite different 3, 2, and 1.MoreShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/KeaHCGN.jpg)
I lived in a county with really bad road surface.
"They already built this and that roads for you, shut up and enjoy it!"
But the roads can be built even better, like in other counties.
I am not sure I can say "the sloppy side" is Signature Plastic, but they might just have too many orders going.
One thing for sure in the future GBs is that a few more e-mail exchanges with the manufacturers to ensure the details (e.g. those I am pointing out here) will be worth it.
Personally, I like them.Here's a comparison between 7bit's Round 6 Space Cadet caps (left) vs Symbiosis R2 (right) for whoever cares.
Ignore the horrible lighting (this is not color accurate), the point is to show how close they are. Biggest difference, like I mentioned, is the size of the legends.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/SZdl27K.jpg)
When we look closer, we can see why the SA Rounds (4/5/6) caps of 7bit were so sought after.
For those who want to improve future Groupbuys of keycap sets and their legends, let's click "more" to see the details 7bit has worked on for the 'Rounds' set.
For those who want Geekhack, a supposedly IC & GB website now, that has been more open to critics pushing boundaries to keep on improving our future keyboard life, instead to become more like r/MK that downvote all constructive comments when that is even just slightly more direct and pointing to the fact, then it is okay to skip the "more"MoreShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/KeaHCGN.jpg)
1. The bigger size legends are to resemble the actual keycap set on the genuine Space Cadet keyboardShow Image(http://xahlee.info/kbd/lisp_kbd/space-cadet_keyboard_3.jpg)
Just look at the D and the F keys of Rounds. See how legends on the alpha keys are more "blown-up", and the Rounds capture this design language (other than the usual font parameters of SP) much better.
For a few times, Signature Plastics made the legends too small to 7bit taste, and then 7bit reject those as seconds and sold them in a reduced price.
And now I see that I could have gotten those instead, but I didn't expect 7bit to disappear for such a long time.
2. Also, the legends of 1, 2, and 3 I just discovered and made me see this round as yet even more different from the Rounds.
Look at the numeral keys 1, 2, and 3 -- they are totally different font designs from the Rounds, which resembles the originals on the Space Cadet keyboard which I also prefer.zslane followed for years the thread-of-hundreds pages of 7bit's Rounds Groupbuy on Deskthority and then he himself worked also as PayPal money collector for the Groupbuy. When he eventually ran his Groupbuys with (Mass)Drop, his SA Dasher & Dancer also used similar legends. Look at the beautiful 1, 2, and 3 on the numeric row:Show Image(https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/product-images/dasher-and-dancer-sa-custom-keycap-set/MD-32558_20161215005127_084f84aff98893f7.jpg)
The above was just a render. And in reality:MoreShow Image(http://www.griffy.no/Pics/keyboard/Dasher/2.jpg)
The default Signature Plastic fonts can be seen here on this SA 1976 set, with their SP 1, 2, and 3, and their "F l", "F l O", "F l l", "F l 2":Show Image(https://www.keychatter.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/keychatter_2015-06-16_23-01-16.jpg)
During those time in 2012-2014, I don't know how much time and effort 7bit spent on this endeavor of Rounds - when no one has done that before.
I lived in a county with really bad road surface.
"They already built this and that roads for you, shut up and enjoy it!"
But the roads can be built even better, like in other counties.
Our OP has already done a lot, as shown, in his previous posts.
I am not sure I can say "the sloppy side" is Signature Plastic, but they might just have too many orders going.
One thing for sure in the future GBs is that a few more e-mail exchanges with the manufacturers to ensure the details (e.g. those I am pointing out here) will be worth it.
To the contrary, I would prefer the current Symbiosis R2 legends rather than the 7-bit round 4/5/6 legends. I mean, I know 7-bit legends for alphas are more closer to the original Symbiosis/Space-Cadet keyboard that developed by MIT, but those "blown-up"/enlarged legends are a little bit out of coordination in nowadays standards. I can totally understand that someone want an exact replica of a "Cherry MX" compatible version Symbiosis/Space-Cadet keycap set, but to me, personally I like the legends on "Cadet Alphas" to be not that enlarged/stretched out.
What are the "nowadays standards", and who is to judge a design is "out of coordination"? Can I say the Planck keyboard is "out of coordination"?
I just pointed out the differences between this run and the rounds, however, it is fair to say OP didn't promise to have a replica of 7bit's Rounds or the design of original Space Cadet keyboard.
I also pointed out SP were reluctant to go through the trouble of swapping their default legends and default legend-size with custom designs, and that down-to-the-details replication effort makes the Rounds rare.
After all, it's a matter of taste for the legend size.
It is also a matter of taste for the legend fonts, if one likes SP's "F l", "F l O", "F l l", "F l 2", and their quite different 3, 2, and 1.MoreShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/KeaHCGN.jpg)
Fair enough. As I said, we have enough discussion about 7bit's products during IC/GB. I don't want to orally wrestle with anyone who prefers 7bit's products. But, it feels annoying if someone pours his preference talks on 7bit's products in this Symbiosis Group Buy thread again and again.
I didn't want to replicate 7bit's creation from the very beginning of Symbiosis R2 IC. I didn't want to replace 7bit to provide his products. This Symbiosis R2 GB had a clear idea/goal to reuse all the existing SP publicly accessible toolings of number row, NorDE legends, etc. considering the cost of making new legends, and to maintain max compatibility among legends of all kits/keys. It's just a trade-off like many things in computer industry. And at the end outcome products of this GB archived this goal.
We have gone through details when someone said "only 7bit cares about doing tribute sets correctly" previously during IC. 7bit's creation had many issues and inconsistencies too, e.g. you noticed some of these issues/inconsistencies in your previous posts. We could talk all day about 7bit this and Symbiosis that. But in the end of the day, any design inspired by a vintage keyboard/keyset is just a simulation of the original, have different design goals/limitations on their own. Like I said previously as response to the "only 7bit doing correctly" guy, it's not true that only one way to make a keyset. There is no correct or wrong, they are just different ideas and preferences.
You seemed to know a lot of stuff on SP's legends/procedures & what happened in Symbiosis GB. But many things you said are wrong. For example,QuoteI lived in a county with really bad road surface.
"They already built this and that roads for you, shut up and enjoy it!"
But the roads can be built even better, like in other counties.
Making keysets via SP is definitely different from building roads. In a keyset design/GB, many things are copyrighted to only a few designers while roads are usually public, as you implied in your words - they're shared in counties. Your analogy is only true when anyone could freely use 7bit's design and toolings - which is not true unfortunately. I have no idea why you use this analogy.QuoteI am not sure I can say "the sloppy side" is Signature Plastic, but they might just have too many orders going.
One thing for sure in the future GBs is that a few more e-mail exchanges with the manufacturers to ensure the details (e.g. those I am pointing out here) will be worth it.
We won't get 7bit's creation. We don't plan to produce that. Symbiosis R2 produced space-cadet inspired legends, big enough to fit the publicly accessible SP number row, NorDE legends. The legends are not as big as what's in 7bit's products, but they don't have to be. It's not a sloppy at all.
Again, I have no idea why you said I did't have enough email exchanges with SP. It looks stupid when you pretended you knew a lot but actually you knew so little.
I am not sure I can say "the sloppy side" is Signature Plastic, but they might just have too many orders going.
One thing for sure in the future GBs is that a few more e-mail exchanges with the manufacturers to ensure the details (e.g. those I am pointing out here) will be worth it.
it is fair to say OP didn't promise to have a replica of 7bit's Rounds or the design of original Space Cadet keyboard.
I also pointed out SP were reluctant to go through the trouble of swapping their default legends and default legend-size with custom designs,
MoreHere's a comparison between 7bit's Round 6 Space Cadet caps (left) vs Symbiosis R2 (right) for whoever cares.
Ignore the horrible lighting (this is not color accurate), the point is to show how close they are. Biggest difference, like I mentioned, is the size of the legends.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/SZdl27K.jpg)
When we look closer, we can see why the SA Rounds (4/5/6) caps of 7bit were so sought after.
For those who want to improve future Groupbuys of keycap sets and their legends, let's click "more" to see the details 7bit has worked on for the 'Rounds' set.
For those who want Geekhack, a supposedly IC & GB website now, that has been more open to critics pushing boundaries to keep on improving our future keyboard life, instead to become more like r/MK that downvote all constructive comments when that is even just slightly more direct and pointing to the fact, then it is okay to skip the "more"MoreShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/KeaHCGN.jpg)
1. The bigger size legends are to resemble the actual keycap set on the genuine Space Cadet keyboardShow Image(http://xahlee.info/kbd/lisp_kbd/space-cadet_keyboard_3.jpg)
Just look at the D and the F keys of Rounds. See how legends on the alpha keys are more "blown-up", and the Rounds capture this design language (other than the usual font parameters of SP) much better.
For a few times, Signature Plastics made the legends too small to 7bit taste, and then 7bit reject those as seconds and sold them in a reduced price.
And now I see that I could have gotten those instead, but I didn't expect 7bit to disappear for such a long time.
2. Also, the legends of 1, 2, and 3 I just discovered and made me see this round as yet even more different from the Rounds.
Look at the numeral keys 1, 2, and 3 -- they are totally different font designs from the Rounds, which resembles the originals on the Space Cadet keyboard which I also prefer.zslane followed for years the thread-of-hundreds pages of 7bit's Rounds Groupbuy on Deskthority and then he himself worked also as PayPal money collector for the Groupbuy. When he eventually ran his Groupbuys with (Mass)Drop, his SA Dasher & Dancer also used similar legends. Look at the beautiful 1, 2, and 3 on the numeric row:Show Image(https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/product-images/dasher-and-dancer-sa-custom-keycap-set/MD-32558_20161215005127_084f84aff98893f7.jpg)
The above was just a render. And in reality:MoreShow Image(http://www.griffy.no/Pics/keyboard/Dasher/2.jpg)
The default Signature Plastic fonts can be seen here on this SA 1976 set, with their SP 1, 2, and 3, and their "F l", "F l O", "F l l", "F l 2":Show Image(https://www.keychatter.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/keychatter_2015-06-16_23-01-16.jpg)
During those time in 2012-2014, I don't know how much time and effort 7bit spent on this endeavor of Rounds - when no one has done that before.
I lived in a county with really bad road surface.
"They already built this and that roads for you, shut up and enjoy it!"
But the roads can be built even better, like in other counties.
Our OP has already done a lot, as shown, in his previous posts.
I am not sure I can say "the sloppy side" is Signature Plastic, but they might just have too many orders going.
One thing for sure in the future GBs is that a few more e-mail exchanges with the manufacturers to ensure the details (e.g. those I am pointing out here) will be worth it.
To the contrary, I would prefer the current Symbiosis R2 legends rather than the 7-bit round 4/5/6 legends. I mean, I know 7-bit legends for alphas are more closer to the original Symbiosis/Space-Cadet keyboard that developed by MIT, but those "blown-up"/enlarged legends are a little bit out of coordination in nowadays standards. I can totally understand that someone want an exact replica of a "Cherry MX" compatible version Symbiosis/Space-Cadet keycap set, but to me, personally I like the legends on "Cadet Alphas" to be not that enlarged/stretched out.
What are the "nowadays standards", and who is to judge a design is "out of coordination"? Can I say the Planck keyboard is "out of coordination"?
I just pointed out the differences between this run and the rounds, however, it is fair to say OP didn't promise to have a replica of 7bit's Rounds or the design of original Space Cadet keyboard.
I also pointed out SP were reluctant to go through the trouble of swapping their default legends and default legend-size with custom designs, and that down-to-the-details replication effort makes the Rounds rare.
After all, it's a matter of taste for the legend size.
It is also a matter of taste for the legend fonts, if one likes SP's "F l", "F l O", "F l l", "F l 2", and their quite different 3, 2, and 1.MoreShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/KeaHCGN.jpg)
Fair enough. As I said, we have enough discussion about 7bit's products during IC/GB. I don't want to orally wrestle with anyone who prefers 7bit's products. But, it feels annoying if someone pours his preference talks on 7bit's products in this Symbiosis Group Buy thread again and again.
I didn't want to replicate 7bit's creation from the very beginning of Symbiosis R2 IC. I didn't want to replace 7bit to provide his products. This Symbiosis R2 GB had a clear idea/goal to reuse all the existing SP publicly accessible toolings of number row, NorDE legends, etc. considering the cost of making new legends, and to maintain max compatibility among legends of all kits/keys. It's just a trade-off like many things in computer industry. And at the end outcome products of this GB archived this goal.
We have gone through details when someone said "only 7bit cares about doing tribute sets correctly" previously during IC. 7bit's creation had many issues and inconsistencies too, e.g. you noticed some of these issues/inconsistencies in your previous posts. We could talk all day about 7bit this and Symbiosis that. But in the end of the day, any design inspired by a vintage keyboard/keyset is just a simulation of the original, have different design goals/limitations on their own. Like I said previously as response to the "only 7bit doing correctly" guy, it's not true that only one way to make a keyset. There is no correct or wrong, they are just different ideas and preferences.
You seemed to know a lot of stuff on SP's legends/procedures & what happened in Symbiosis GB. But many things you said are wrong. For example,QuoteI lived in a county with really bad road surface.
"They already built this and that roads for you, shut up and enjoy it!"
But the roads can be built even better, like in other counties.
Making keysets via SP is definitely different from building roads. In a keyset design/GB, many things are copyrighted to only a few designers while roads are usually public, as you implied in your words - they're shared in counties. Your analogy is only true when anyone could freely use 7bit's design and toolings - which is not true unfortunately. I have no idea why you use this analogy.QuoteI am not sure I can say "the sloppy side" is Signature Plastic, but they might just have too many orders going.
One thing for sure in the future GBs is that a few more e-mail exchanges with the manufacturers to ensure the details (e.g. those I am pointing out here) will be worth it.
We won't get 7bit's creation. We don't plan to produce that. Symbiosis R2 produced space-cadet inspired legends, big enough to fit the publicly accessible SP number row, NorDE legends. The legends are not as big as what's in 7bit's products, but they don't have to be. It's not a sloppy at all.
Again, I have no idea why you said I did't have enough email exchanges with SP. It looks stupid when you pretended you knew a lot but actually you knew so little.
It is great the OP has stopped being dormant in this thread.
Because I expect the products to be like OP's own renders, including the font style and font size.
...
My communication here aims at trying to raise awareness to details MK consumers should pay attention to in order to keep up the production quality in the future.
IMAGE DISCLAIMER
Images are of 3D renders and are for illustration purposes only. The final product may differ slightly.
You have been professional in your communication in IC and in GB, and you might misunderstand that the word "sloppy" was to imply you, no it shouldn't. At the most, I could only say those who QC this Run is careless.
however, I also have already assumed someone who dares to take the daunting task of running a GB of Space Cadet design keycap be able to create all the necessary legend files, even for every keycap if needed, in order to create what the renders have promised.
This is what I put totally trust into, and felt disappointed.
Of course no analogy is perfect (it was more trying to relate to how some users tried to defend Kailh's keycap cracking erroneous switch stem dimension, more about their attitude - they totally non-critical attitude will not help quality of projects progress the way they should).
I also have already assumed someone who dares to take the daunting task of running a GB of Space Cadet design keycap be able to create all the necessary legend files, even for every keycap if needed
Anyone already got their Mykeyboard.eu order?
......
Because I expect the products to be like OP's own renders, including the font style and font size.
...
My communication here aims at trying to raise awareness to details MK consumers should pay attention to in order to keep up the production quality in the future.
As we all know, renders are for illustration purposes. They don't match 100% to the product. Some vendor usually puts statements on the sale webpage, likeCode: [Select]IMAGE DISCLAIMER
Images are of 3D renders and are for illustration purposes only. The final product may differ slightly.
Some venders don't do that. But we all know products will not be 100% loyal to renders.
Symbiosis R2 used the font Gotham Rounded in both 2D and 3D renders. The shape of legend 3 in Gotham Rounded is slightly different from SP's real product. It's commonly used in keyset rendering. You could see this happened in many other keyset GBs. It's not a production quality issue. If that become a problem according to your standard, you should raise awareness and post in many other GB pages too.
BTW, there are small differences between 2D and 3D renders too. And the sizes of legends in 3D render are bigger than what's in 2D renders because they were done by different people in different time. Some legends were revised slightly. Some mistake in 3D renders too. You should notice these before buying if you're so picky as now for these details. We could talk all day about these details, but it won't help much now in the shipping phase.
......
......
Because I expect the products to be like OP's own renders, including the font style and font size.
...
My communication here aims at trying to raise awareness to details MK consumers should pay attention to in order to keep up the production quality in the future.
As we all know, renders are for illustration purposes. They don't match 100% to the product. Some vendor usually puts statements on the sale webpage, likeCode: [Select]IMAGE DISCLAIMER
Images are of 3D renders and are for illustration purposes only. The final product may differ slightly.
Some venders don't do that. But we all know products will not be 100% loyal to renders.
Symbiosis R2 used the font Gotham Rounded in both 2D and 3D renders. The shape of legend 3 in Gotham Rounded is slightly different from SP's real product. It's commonly used in keyset rendering. You could see this happened in many other keyset GBs. It's not a production quality issue. If that become a problem according to your standard, you should raise awareness and post in many other GB pages too.
BTW, there are small differences between 2D and 3D renders too. And the sizes of legends in 3D render are bigger than what's in 2D renders because they were done by different people in different time. Some legends were revised slightly. Some mistake in 3D renders too. You should notice these before buying if you're so picky as now for these details. We could talk all day about these details, but it won't help much now in the shipping phase.
......
Now it is clear, what I saw as a quality issue - is now that Group-buy products do not need to resemble the renders because it is for "illustration" purposes, and that is a "as we all know" standard practice.
And OP stayed with SP's publicly accessible legends of number row as a design decision, despite being quite different font-wise from the render Gotham Rounded (which matches better with the original Space Cadet keyboard font design).
I agree that products are not 100% loyal to renders, and this is where lots of people get disappointed nowadays when they get products shipped from Chinese companies that advertise their products only as renders. Quite a few people raised criticisms to new key cap manufacturers' fonts as horrendous and a pain to look at in GB and DT (in r/MK people just all say great and yes): perhaps that era of attention to details is already bygone. I am a bit vocal here as the font design that I expected was not delivered in the real product.
And I have to thank OP again that as I raised the Signature Plastic default font 'issue' of "F l", "F l O", "F l l", "F l 2" in a batch of sample, OP did take the effort to make them look nicer so those "l" changed to "1". Next time I should be more careful in clarifying earlier on if I am going for some font design in a GB.
Now it is clear, what I saw as a quality issue - is now that Group-buy products do not need to resemble the renders because it is for "illustration" purposes, and that is a "as we all know" standard practice.
And OP stayed with SP's publicly accessible legends of number row as a design decision, despite being quite different font-wise from the render Gotham Rounded (which matches better with the original Space Cadet keyboard font design).
I agree that products are not 100% loyal to renders, and this is where lots of people get disappointed nowadays when they get products shipped from Chinese companies that advertise their products only as renders. Quite a few people raised criticisms to new key cap manufacturers' fonts as horrendous and a pain to look at in GB and DT (in r/MK people just all say great and yes): perhaps that era of attention to details is already bygone. I am a bit vocal here as the font design that I expected was not delivered in the real product.
And I have to thank OP again that as I raised the Signature Plastic default font 'issue' of "F l", "F l O", "F l l", "F l 2" in a batch of sample, OP did take the effort to make them look nicer so those "l" changed to "1". Next time I should be more careful in clarifying earlier on if I am going for some font design in a GB.
Group-buy products do not need to resemble the renders because it is for "illustration" purposes.
Next time I should be more careful in clarifying earlier on if I am going for some font design in a GB.
...
Instead I told people we were going to use SP standard number row legends and bigger function legends. I decided to use bigger function letters for the function area, even before the GB started.
Reference (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94288.msg2643643#msg2643643).
SP didn't read my specifications before making first round color samples so that they used small function letters at these samples. I noticed that once Kono sent me the picture of these samples and told SP that before I posted that update. And I specified that in that sample update (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97492.msg2731156#msg2731156). It didn't happen that Symbiosis R2 changed to the bigger function letters because you pointed that out as you implied. And thanks for the advice
...
...
Instead I told people we were going to use SP standard number row legends and bigger function legends. I decided to use bigger function letters for the function area, even before the GB started.
Reference (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94288.msg2643643#msg2643643).
SP didn't read my specifications before making first round color samples so that they used small function letters at these samples. I noticed that once Kono sent me the picture of these samples and told SP that before I posted that update. And I specified that in that sample update (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97492.msg2731156#msg2731156). It didn't happen that Symbiosis R2 changed to the bigger function letters because you pointed that out as you implied. And thanks for the advice
...
I didn't know enlarging fonts will make 'F l' turns into 'F 1' - it is more on the SP technical side, I guess.
So Mr. hhkbps will be happy only when I say all kudos are to you and I am satisfied, right?
I know GB has risks - especially if there is no guarantee final products will resemble the renders to any pre-specified degree. For cases, renders basically resemble the product to a large degree as cases are mostly CNC or 3D printed production, while slicing the design for CNC and 3D printing may create some differences and the major differences can be the colors of final products; for PCB and plates, renders and are based on the same CAD files; for key caps, we have only 3 major things -- the profile, the color theme and the font & novelty designs. And most of the GB of key cap sets deal only primarily with the color theme. This GB is about both color theme and font & novelty designs, and I reasonably paid more attention to the font designs.
I don't know if OP gained anything from this GB at all, I believe if yes not much because he's not running it himself like the vendors.
But "no guarantee final products will resemble the renders to a pre-specified degree" is a real risk of all Group-buys here for people who accept the standard practice of GB here. At the end, it is all related to reputation, and with the detailed follow-ups of samples, OP has given me an impression that he is more the careful kind - while I saw his presumed preference as "error" from renders.
Thanks for the suggestion that I should assume Gotham Rounded be not implied on Signature Plastics keycap.
I know what to expect next time when a production is from SP.
...
Instead I told people we were going to use SP standard number row legends and bigger function legends. I decided to use bigger function letters for the function area, even before the GB started.
Reference (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94288.msg2643643#msg2643643).
SP didn't read my specifications before making first round color samples so that they used small function letters at these samples. I noticed that once Kono sent me the picture of these samples and told SP that before I posted that update. And I specified that in that sample update (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97492.msg2731156#msg2731156). It didn't happen that Symbiosis R2 changed to the bigger function letters because you pointed that out as you implied. And thanks for the advice
...
I didn't know enlarging fonts will make 'F l' turns into 'F 1' - it is more on the SP technical side, I guess.
So Mr. hhkbps will be happy only when I say all kudos are to you and I am satisfied, right?
I know GB has risks - especially if there is no guarantee final products will resemble the renders to any pre-specified degree. For cases, renders basically resemble the product to a large degree as cases are mostly CNC or 3D printed production, while slicing the design for CNC and 3D printing may create some differences and the major differences can be the colors of final products; for PCB and plates, renders and are based on the same CAD files; for key caps, we have only 3 major things -- the profile, the color theme and the font & novelty designs. And most of the GB of key cap sets deal only primarily with the color theme. This GB is about both color theme and font & novelty designs, and I reasonably paid more attention to the font designs.
I don't know if OP gained anything from this GB at all, I believe if yes not much because he's not running it himself like the vendors.
But "no guarantee final products will resemble the renders to a pre-specified degree" is a real risk of all Group-buys here for people who accept the standard practice of GB here. At the end, it is all related to reputation, and with the detailed follow-ups of samples, OP has given me an impression that he is more the careful kind - while I saw his presumed preference as "error" from renders.
Thanks for the suggestion that I should assume Gotham Rounded be not implied on Signature Plastics keycap.
I know what to expect next time when a production is from SP.
Jesus this guy.
...
Instead I told people we were going to use SP standard number row legends and bigger function legends. I decided to use bigger function letters for the function area, even before the GB started.
Reference (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94288.msg2643643#msg2643643).
SP didn't read my specifications before making first round color samples so that they used small function letters at these samples. I noticed that once Kono sent me the picture of these samples and told SP that before I posted that update. And I specified that in that sample update (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97492.msg2731156#msg2731156). It didn't happen that Symbiosis R2 changed to the bigger function letters because you pointed that out as you implied. And thanks for the advice
...
I didn't know enlarging fonts will make 'F l' turns into 'F 1' - it is more on the SP technical side, I guess.
So Mr. hhkbps will be happy only when I say all kudos are to you and I am satisfied, right?
I know GB has risks - especially if there is no guarantee final products will resemble the renders to any pre-specified degree. For cases, renders basically resemble the product to a large degree as cases are mostly CNC or 3D printed production, while slicing the design for CNC and 3D printing may create some differences and the major differences can be the colors of final products; for PCB and plates, renders and are based on the same CAD files; for key caps, we have only 3 major things -- the profile, the color theme and the font & novelty designs. And most of the GB of key cap sets deal only primarily with the color theme. This GB is about both color theme and font & novelty designs, and I reasonably paid more attention to the font designs.
I don't know if OP gained anything from this GB at all, I believe if yes not much because he's not running it himself like the vendors.
But "no guarantee final products will resemble the renders to a pre-specified degree" is a real risk of all Group-buys here for people who accept the standard practice of GB here. At the end, it is all related to reputation, and with the detailed follow-ups of samples, OP has given me an impression that he is more the careful kind - while I saw his presumed preference as "error" from renders.
Thanks for the suggestion that I should assume Gotham Rounded be not implied on Signature Plastics keycap.
I know what to expect next time when a production is from SP.
...
Instead I told people we were going to use SP standard number row legends and bigger function legends. I decided to use bigger function letters for the function area, even before the GB started.
Reference (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94288.msg2643643#msg2643643).
SP didn't read my specifications before making first round color samples so that they used small function letters at these samples. I noticed that once Kono sent me the picture of these samples and told SP that before I posted that update. And I specified that in that sample update (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97492.msg2731156#msg2731156). It didn't happen that Symbiosis R2 changed to the bigger function letters because you pointed that out as you implied. And thanks for the advice
...
I didn't know enlarging fonts will make 'F l' turns into 'F 1' - it is more on the SP technical side, I guess.
So Mr. hhkbps will be happy only when I say all kudos are to you and I am satisfied, right?
I know GB has risks - especially if there is no guarantee final products will resemble the renders to any pre-specified degree. For cases, renders basically resemble the product to a large degree as cases are mostly CNC or 3D printed production, while slicing the design for CNC and 3D printing may create some differences and the major differences can be the colors of final products; for PCB and plates, renders and are based on the same CAD files; for key caps, we have only 3 major things -- the profile, the color theme and the font & novelty designs. And most of the GB of key cap sets deal only primarily with the color theme. This GB is about both color theme and font & novelty designs, and I reasonably paid more attention to the font designs.
I don't know if OP gained anything from this GB at all, I believe if yes not much because he's not running it himself like the vendors.
But "no guarantee final products will resemble the renders to a pre-specified degree" is a real risk of all Group-buys here for people who accept the standard practice of GB here. At the end, it is all related to reputation, and with the detailed follow-ups of samples, OP has given me an impression that he is more the careful kind - while I saw his presumed preference as "error" from renders.
Thanks for the suggestion that I should assume Gotham Rounded be not implied on Signature Plastics keycap.
I know what to expect next time when a production is from SP.
Why are you still talking?
MoreWhy are you still talking?...
Instead I told people we were going to use SP standard number row legends and bigger function legends. I decided to use bigger function letters for the function area, even before the GB started.
Reference (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94288.msg2643643#msg2643643).
SP didn't read my specifications before making first round color samples so that they used small function letters at these samples. I noticed that once Kono sent me the picture of these samples and told SP that before I posted that update. And I specified that in that sample update (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97492.msg2731156#msg2731156). It didn't happen that Symbiosis R2 changed to the bigger function letters because you pointed that out as you implied. And thanks for the advice
...
I didn't know enlarging fonts will make 'F l' turns into 'F 1' - it is more on the SP technical side, I guess.
So Mr. hhkbps will be happy only when I say all kudos are to you and I am satisfied, right?
I know GB has risks - especially if there is no guarantee final products will resemble the renders to any pre-specified degree. For cases, renders basically resemble the product to a large degree as cases are mostly CNC or 3D printed production, while slicing the design for CNC and 3D printing may create some differences and the major differences can be the colors of final products; for PCB and plates, renders and are based on the same CAD files; for key caps, we have only 3 major things -- the profile, the color theme and the font & novelty designs. And most of the GB of key cap sets deal only primarily with the color theme. This GB is about both color theme and font & novelty designs, and I reasonably paid more attention to the font designs.
I don't know if OP gained anything from this GB at all, I believe if yes not much because he's not running it himself like the vendors.
But "no guarantee final products will resemble the renders to a pre-specified degree" is a real risk of all Group-buys here for people who accept the standard practice of GB here. At the end, it is all related to reputation, and with the detailed follow-ups of samples, OP has given me an impression that he is more the careful kind - while I saw his presumed preference as "error" from renders.
Thanks for the suggestion that I should assume Gotham Rounded be not implied on Signature Plastics keycap.
I know what to expect next time when a production is from SP.
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/qrmCdWN.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/TrNVbdu.jpg)
Are these SA oblivion mods?
What was the original pricing for these kits in USD? Trying to find some on r/mm but everyone's charging an arm and two legs, us a kidney. Just want to see the before and after price.I believe zfroniter has a list of the prices. Granted you have to go looking for it on their complete products catalogue page. Also the prices are slightly different. If you look at their "Signature Plastics" page, the links are now gone. However, prices are very much comparable (i.e. within a few USD of the North American buy)
Prices on KONO aren't shown.
Mine's finally here. Couldn't be happier. Zero complaints.
Congrats on running the GB, hhkbp2, couldn't be more satisfied on how things went down.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/xaDRcnv.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/Ju0vyTX.jpg)
Mine's finally here. Couldn't be happier. Zero complaints.
Congrats on running the GB, hhkbp2, couldn't be more satisfied on how things went down.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/xaDRcnv.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/Ju0vyTX.jpg)
These are very nice photos! What keyboard is this? Looks really good.
Pricing for the GB is listed on this site
https://matrixzj.github.io/docs/sa-keycaps/Symbiosis-R2/
Just noticed my blue \ key has a defect. The white plastic is showing through to the blue part. Would it be possible to go about getting a replacement keycap?
Just noticed my blue \ key has a defect. The white plastic is showing through to the blue part. Would it be possible to go about getting a replacement keycap?
Please contact your vendor for that.
My order from ZFrontier not fulfilled yet... :(
(Attachment Link)
My order from ZFrontier not fulfilled yet... :(
(Attachment Link)
Well my GB got ruined. My order was in fulfillment since Nov 6th so i sent an email about whats going on, apparently my order shipped,postal service didnt scan it and now its gone forever. Only thing i got offered was a refund or wait for the next GB. I waited a year and spent 300$ for nothing, I am so disappointed and now i have a blue Kira80 that i cant finish. Sad days.
Well my GB got ruined. My order was in fulfillment since Nov 6th so i sent an email about whats going on, apparently my order shipped,postal service didnt scan it and now its gone forever. Only thing i got offered was a refund or wait for the next GB. I waited a year and spent 300$ for nothing, I am so disappointed and now i have a blue Kira80 that i cant finish. Sad days.
Show Image(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191206/8aaf37dbf0fd3917b65307b493c7b19f.jpg)
Mine is turning turning out real nice. Thanks for the GB!
So sad that I got double c key, and miss the d key from Zfrontier.. How is the fastest way to contact them?Show Image(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191208/c363f099a66bba207e38a4fd475fe6fc.jpg)
So sad that I got double c key, and miss the d key from Zfrontier.. How is the fastest way to contact them?Show Image(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191208/c363f099a66bba207e38a4fd475fe6fc.jpg)
I think you could contact them via the support email.
Has anyone who ordered through Mykeyboard.eu actually received their order yet?Haven't got mine either. I also mailed them about two weeks ago but haven't heard from them till now.
I mailed them about a month ago; they responded that they'd be shipping out "soon". I'm still waiting, and they haven't responded to email since.
Hi guys,
Yesterday a friend gave feedback that he found an issue in one key of the Novelties kit: he received a scooped homing Emacs key, which should be a non-scooped key in R3 profile. As marked in the following picture:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/cydxrL9.jpg)
Then I checked with many other friends (since I had not received my sets) with what they got and it seemed to be an error for overall units. I had communicated with SP and Kono about this. SP would re-make this key in correct shape for a fix and send out the replacements to Kono next week. Later Kono should ship the fixed keys for your order of this kit. So should the other vendors. If you have any question or you don't receive the fixed key later for a long time, please contact your vendor.
Really sorry about this.
For reference: the correct layout of Novelties kit (https://i.imgur.com/LT6Oihi.jpg)
I don't have the novelty set in my order, so if mykeyboard.eu is holding orders waiting for novelty replacements, it seems they're simply holding *all* orders, esp. if nobody else has gotten anything from them either.
Just FTR, I'm not at all blaming you, hhkbp2 - I understand this is entirely outside your control. I'm just a bit annoyed with mykeyboard.eu for not bothering to respond to mail after having me wait a full month after my first question to them.
ordered via mykeyboard.eu as well, have not heard anything so far either.
ordered via mykeyboard.eu as well, have not heard anything so far either.
We are not holding out orders. Not all parts arrived in stock. It was split send to us in 5 or 6 boxes and it was held split in customs. Will go out soon :-)
Sorry to bring it up again, but has anybody got news from mykeyboard.eu? Or even received their orders?
Great news, thanks :)Sorry to bring it up again, but has anybody got news from mykeyboard.eu? Or even received their orders?
None have been shipped out yet. They should be getting shipped out tomorrow though!
Oh man, I just got the hook for mechanical keyboards and learned about this forum. Am I really too late to get this Symbiosis keyboard? Some of these look amazing! The site is sold out, but has anyone ever had luck contacting the site to see if they have an extra?
Oh man, I just got the hook for mechanical keyboards and learned about this forum. Am I really too late to get this Symbiosis keyboard? Some of these look amazing! The site is sold out, but has anyone ever had luck contacting the site to see if they have an extra?
Is there any chance of another run of this incredible keycap set? I missed the group-buy and I would love to get my hands on one of these sets if at all possible.
I generally regard this as one of the nicest looking keycap sets there is.
Is there any chance of another run of this incredible keycap set? I missed the group-buy and I would love to get my hands on one of these sets if at all possible.
I generally regard this as one of the nicest looking keycap sets there is.
There's a good chance that this will run again.
If you can't wait for those cadet legends in SA profile, you can check out SA Spectra. Most kits are still available on Kono: https://kono.store/products/sa-spectra
Is there any chance of another run of this incredible keycap set? I missed the group-buy and I would love to get my hands on one of these sets if at all possible.
I generally regard this as one of the nicest looking keycap sets there is.
There's a good chance that this will run again.
If you can't wait for those cadet legends in SA profile, you can check out SA Spectra. Most kits are still available on Kono: https://kono.store/products/sa-spectra
Yep, we need R3.THIS
Yep, we need R3.