[GB] Delta Blues - Alps DCS keyset from SP - GB in now live on PMK

[Badwrench]

Group buy is now live on PMK.  Head on over and buy it!  The first significant price break comes in at 50 sets, lets get this thing going.
Links to GB: 
Parent deal: Base alphas  http://www.pimpmykeyboard.com/deals/delta-blues-alps-dcs-set/
Base modifiers:  http://www.pimpmykeyboard.com/deals/delta-blues-base-modifier-set-3/
HHKB kit:  http://www.pimpmykeyboard.com/deals/delta-blues-hhkb-kit-2/
Tsangan kit:  http://www.pimpmykeyboard.com/deals/delta-blues-tsangan-kit-2/
ISO kit:  http://www.pimpmykeyboard.com/deals/delta-blues-iso-kit-2/
Inverted kit:  http://www.pimpmykeyboard.com/deals/delta-blues-inverted-kit-2/


Also, not to confuse anyone, the alphas are black.  The render just makes them look dark grey. 

After much thought and going back and forth on stuff between Nubbinator and myself, I think we are ready for this IC to get started.

Delta Blues mockup with cherry font (thanks to numiru)


The goal is to get an Alps double shot DCS keycap set in ABS with the most adaptability for the custom Alps boards out there (and for the upcoming SPRiT pcb).  In addition this will be a group effort to get as much input on what child-buys need to go along with the standard base set so that we can try to bring as much goodness to the land of Alps. 

One thing of note right at the beginning is that SP does not make a spacebar for Alps in any size.  We are going to have to base the set on at least one existing color so that a spacebar can be sourced from an exiting donor board.  For this reason, we will probably be focusing on 6.25x and 7x sizes as those are the most common. Edit:  We will be going for a black or white base set as Matias has spacebars available in those 2 colors 

Colors chosen for this GB are BFQ/NN alphas, BFQ/GD mods and an inverted kit of GD/BFQ.  Profile will be DCS and will use the Cherry font. 


Black based SoWaRe - BFQ/NN alphas and BFQ/GD mods (with Matias spacebar) Done as a 60% with a GD/BFQ backspace 



Here are the specs for stabilizer spacing from SP:




Sets are planned as follows:
Alpha (base)
Mods (base)
Language packs (add-on legends would be pad printed) - Not for this one.  Too much for the first alps GB. 
HHKB kit
Tsangan
ISO
Inverted

Pricing is below:
Alphas:
25 sets                   $50 per set
50 sets                   $45 per set
75 sets                   $43 per set
100 sets                 $42 per set
150 sets                 $41 per set
250 sets                 $40 per set


 
Mods:
25 sets                   $72 per set
50 sets                   $50 per set
75 sets                   $43 per set
100 sets                 $40 per set
150 sets                 $36 per set
200 sets                 $34 per set
250 sets                 $33 per set



Official render:

 
HHKB Kit:
10 sets                   $40 per set
25 sets                   $20 per set
50 sets                   $13 per set
75 sets                   $11 per set
100 sets                 $10 per set
150 sets                 $8 per set


 
Tsangan:
10 sets                   $38 per set
25 sets                   $19 per set
50 sets                   $12 per set
75 sets                   $10 per set
100 sets                 $9 per set
150 sets                 $8 per set
250 sets                 $7 per set


 
ISO Set:
10 sets                   $24 per set
25 sets                   $13 per set
50 sets                   $9 per set
75 sets                   $8 per set
100 sets                 $7 per set
250 sets                 $6 per set


 
Inverted Kit:
10 sets                   $22 per set
25 sets                   $11 per set
50 sets                   $7 per set
75 sets                   $6 per set
100 sets                 $5 per set
200 sets                 $4 per set





Post your thoughts so we can make an Alps set finally happen. 



Special thanks to nubbinator (for letting me pick his brain), Numiru (for the beautiful renders), and everyone in this thread that helped to get this thing dialed in. 
 

[Den441]

I am slightly interested. I have a Retro Round 4 set which is also based on SoWaRe. It fell short in my opinion. It is nice, but not Soware. R4 Retro alphas were BFQ on GSL. The BFQ barely showed up on the alphas at all, so as a result it looks way different than Soware and the alpha legends are basically unreadable. I'm not sure how BBQ would look though, hopefully readable. I would get a sample of that to confirm. Retro R4 also used BFQ on GQM for the mods. The legends were readable on those. If you could pull off Soware with SP then that might be cool. I just want a custom ALPS set. If it was up to me I'd get SP to make a custom teal color for the mods and go for the vintage Triumph-Adler Dario 286 look. Of course, that is just me dreaming. Another part of me thinks that an original colorway not associated with mx keys would be nice too. To kind of give this custom alps set it's own identity.

[CommonCurt]

Interested.  I really like the both of the mock ups you posted.

Beige/grey for the win, and I love soware.

[CPTBadAss]

I'm in.

Please make the colorway something a little more unique. I feel like 95% of colorways currently available from Alps boards are some form of beige/gray variant and it's depressing to me. Even a white on black set would be something unique and interesting in my opinion.

But regardless of the color, I'll be buying

[nubbinator]

I'm in.

Please make the colorway something a little more unique. I feel like 95% of colorways currently available from Alps boards are some form of beige/gray variant and it's depressing to me. Even a white on black set would be something unique and interesting in my opinion.

But regardless of the color, I'll be buying

Different color sets were kicked around as well.  A Famicon inspired set, Yolch, Triumph Adler (preferably with a custom color to match the old TA teal), Smith Corona, and some of the other typewriter sets were tossed around.  I think if someone comes up with a killer set idea, we could swap it out.

The main issue was trying to keep a set that would look good with existing spacebars since SP can't make them.

[engicoder]

Is dyeing existing spacebars an option?

[exitfire401]

I am very much in. I also wanna request a spacebar pack as well for those of us with weird layouts.

[CPTBadAss]

I also wanna request a spacebar pack as well for those of us with weird layouts.

The main issue was trying to keep a set that would look good with existing spacebars since SP can't make them.

   

I wonder if Tai Hao could get us spacebars? Anyways, please let me know if there's anything I can do to help this buy along. Like I said I'll be in regardless of the color since my Alps boards desperately need some custom keycaps .

[mashby]

I'd like to see a different color way as well, such as Klaxon, but regardless I'd be in for a set for whatever is chosen.

[exitfire401]

I also wanna request a spacebar pack as well for those of us with weird layouts.

The main issue was trying to keep a set that would look good with existing spacebars since SP can't make them.

   

I wonder if Tai Hao could get us spacebars? Anyways, please let me know if there's anything I can do to help this buy along. Like I said I'll be in regardless of the color since my Alps boards desperately need some custom keycaps .

Missed that second statement =(

[nubbinator]

That was something I suggested.  I don't know stabilizer placement on them though, so I don't know if they'd work.

[AKmalamute]

For myself, I say screw the existing sets; the spacebar can be a splash of contrasting "dull and gray; no emotion, anyway." (I'm probably misquoting that but moving on...)

 Maybe I missed it but are we going with doubleshot ABS, or dye-sub PBT? I like the texture of PBT myself, and dyesub still gives us some good options. YBZ base could still take GSF legends, or redo Miami with RCH/RBH.

 So: stab-holes. You'd normally have an insert that resembles a costar style clip, right? And that's about the same as the Cherry inserts. So, are we going with Cherry stab-stems? Because in the case of one-off plates to be hand wired, or private PCB that need custom plates anyway, I'd really like to be able to use cherry plate mounted stabilizers, simply because I hate costar and also I already have a plate that I've loaded with cherry stabs.

 Okay enough rambling about stabilizers. Clearly, the solution is to recreate the phantom in ALPS, and use 7-bit layouts.

Everywhere.

[CPTBadAss]

That was something I suggested.  I don't know stabilizer placement on them though, so I don't know if they'd work.

Maybe we can find out what colors Matias is planning on releasing for their spacebars and we could go from there?

[Den441]

Here are a couple colorways I made that might be good for this, unique as far as I know.

WA/BX, RAS/GSL http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/e8cb5f547fd1c50f9ef4ac24fdce6546 "Shogun" and

BBQ/GC, WA/GCV http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/4f9bc6a6dac0bfefd7965e136c09ebdb"BBQ Dolch"

I also like the Smith Corona. OP was was referencing SP ABS colors is his first post, so I am assuming ABS Doubleshots.

[geniekid]

Are there many Alps boards out there with DCS profile space bars?  Or do we think the profile difference is negligible?

[Badwrench]

I'm in.

Please make the colorway something a little more unique. I feel like 95% of colorways currently available from Alps boards are some form of beige/gray variant and it's depressing to me. Even a white on black set would be something unique and interesting in my opinion.

But regardless of the color, I'll be buying

Different color sets were kicked around as well.  A Famicon inspired set, Yolch, Triumph Adler (preferably with a custom color to match the old TA teal), Smith Corona, and some of the other typewriter sets were tossed around.  I think if someone comes up with a killer set idea, we could swap it out.

The main issue was trying to keep a set that would look good with existing spacebars since SP can't make them.

I am very much down for options on colors.  I really like the Trumph-Adler set. 

Which teal do you guys think is the best?


Here is the Triumph-Adler set (pic courtesy of Deskthority)



Here is a little mockup of the Smith-corona:

[exitfire401]

I'm in.

Please make the colorway something a little more unique. I feel like 95% of colorways currently available from Alps boards are some form of beige/gray variant and it's depressing to me. Even a white on black set would be something unique and interesting in my opinion.

But regardless of the color, I'll be buying

Different color sets were kicked around as well.  A Famicon inspired set, Yolch, Triumph Adler (preferably with a custom color to match the old TA teal), Smith Corona, and some of the other typewriter sets were tossed around.  I think if someone comes up with a killer set idea, we could swap it out.

The main issue was trying to keep a set that would look good with existing spacebars since SP can't make them.

I am very much down for options on colors.  I really like the Trumph-Adler set. 

Which teal do you guys think is the best?

Show Image

Here is the Triumph-Adler set (pic courtesy of Deskthority)

Show Image

Here is a little mockup of the Smith-corona:
(Attachment Link)

3252 and 3125 are my favorite. 322 isn't bad though.

[Den441]

Remember the keys have aged and yellowed on those old TA pics, producing more of a teal. Originally it was likely a more blueish color that was used. Probably around PMS 3125. I would prefer going for the teal color that the aging produced though. I like PMS 3135, 3145, and 320/321. I wouldn't mind 3125 though.

I don't know how much extra a custom color costs from SP, I know the Soulfree Set used one like PMS 3155 though. Was a little too dark and the alpha legends too thin to be like TA caps imo.

There has been some interest for the TA set over the years, but nothing ever happened.

[CPTBadAss]

Are there many Alps boards out there with DCS profile space bars?  Or do we think the profile difference is negligible?

The profile are all different on Alps boards that are available. I don't know if there will be a profile match. Maybe the AT101?


I really like the following teals:
- PMS3115
- PMS3252
- PMS319

[jacobolus]

I suggest asking Matias about how to source Alps spacebars.

[nubbinator]

I have some Pantone cards at home (my dad used to own a print shop).  Would you guys like me to take some pics or scan in the cards with some colors matched to beige SP colors?  I think I may buy a color ring soon, as much as I despise their huge cost and the fact that there isn't an SP loaner, and will be better able to match and play with that.

[jacobolus]

Someone already did spectrophotometric measurements of SP's color chips, which is a much more useful reference than approximate Pantone numbers IMO. (The problem with Pantone is that it’s completely unsystematic and proprietary, and impossible to convert to any other system because it’s not related to the any standard color measurement system (a Pantone color listing is about as useful as a crayola crayon color or a jelly bean color). I wish Pantone would go die in a fire, and everyone would go back to listing Munsell coordinates. Oh well.)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0As-LCp55OSYodE5TX3ZBYm5QZ3lqQktrb1JBSmZMcXc&usp=sharing#gid=0
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0As-LCp55OSYodDFiWDV4VkZhWWJ0R08yRFk5c25UZGc&usp=sharing#gid=0

By the way, if you ever stop by San Francisco, MassDrop has SP color rings. I don’t think they’ll mail it around though.

[Hak Foo]

As boring as it may be, a simple beige and white set could be hugely valuable as an "infill" thing.

If you want to put decent caps on an AT101W, a Ducky 1008XM, a Sprit (did he ever release the ALPS boards?), Kingsaver, or GH122, you're almost certainly going to go mad trying to find a few modifiers.

I could see an inexpensive "super-Tsangan kit" being quite useful:

Bottom rows: a full set of 1.25x modifiers, as well as 1.5-1-1.5 1.5-1-1.5
ANSI 2.25x enter.  1.5x |\.
2.0x backspace
Potentially Kingsaver-sized right column keys
LED and non-LED lock keys
Potentially a function row for people scavenging from old boards with only ten function keys

Take that set, combine it with cheap caps from a Focus 2001, an Acer 6311, or some a random Chicony board, and you can cover a LOT of more modern layout needs.

Yes, not everyone would need every key, but I think this has to be a "You subsidize the parts I want, and in exchange I subsidize the ones you want"  situation.

[nubbinator]

Beige and cream sets are easy to find and assemble for Alps boards.  The point of the ideas we're looking at is to make it so you can add a little color to your Alps boards since you're basically stuck in beige and cream, black, and grey with some rare outliers that have more color. 

That said, if that's something you're passionate about, you can come up with a super mod kit and start an IC to be run through SP. 

[Badwrench]

Beige and cream sets are easy to find and assemble for Alps boards.  The point of the ideas we're looking at is to make it so you can add a little color to your Alps boards since you're basically stuck in beige and cream, black, and grey with some rare outliers that have more color. 

That said, if that's something you're passionate about, you can come up with a super mod kit and start an IC to be run through SP.

Exactly this. 

That said, I updated the OP with more color options 

[Magna224]

Id be in for one.

[Heliosphere]

Hell yeah, I love me some teal as well. There's way too many variations of teal in that picture to choose from, but something in columns 2-5 and rows 1-9 (from left to right, top to bottom) would be good. I know it doesn't really narrow down the choices much.

[xixihaha2008]

I'm in....

[jacobolus]

As boring as it may be, a simple beige and white set could be hugely valuable as an "infill" thing.

If you want to put decent caps on an AT101W, a Ducky 1008XM, a Sprit (did he ever release the ALPS boards?), Kingsaver, or GH122, you're almost certainly going to go mad trying to find a few modifiers.

Not really useful for lots of old keyboards, since they use Alps-style stabilizers while SP only produces keycaps with MX/Costar-style stabilizer keycap mounts.

Some Alps boards do have crappy pad-printed ABS keycaps and use Costar-style stabilizers though (e.g. ones from Monterey or Chicony), so you’d probably be able to get reasonable replacements from SP for some of those keycaps... good luck with the bigass enters though.

[Den441]

I think we are on the right track with a teal kind of color somewhere on these caps. I could not think of an old alps board that had color like old mx boards such as the TA and Olivette. But then I remembered the Wang 725 boards. They actually use a blueish-green color on some of the legends! So now you can think of using that color somewhere on these caps as an homage to the ole Wangs with pink sliders. It is a beautiful shade of teal too. Looks like 3125 on the chart.

[dustinhxc]

I like the triumph and yolch! Id need a board first.. I love the look of 60% ALPS.

http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=987

Matias as good as vintage ALPS in your opinion or should I get a Duck Eagle or Viper?





Delicious.

[JaccoW]

Interested in this.

And Dustinhxc, you need both Matias 60% as well as a Duck.

[CPTBadAss]

Matias as good as vintage ALPS in your opinion or should I get a Duck Eagle or Viper?

Well you can put Matias switches into a Duck Eagle, Viper, or Mini. And you can put complicated Alps switches into a Matias board. So your question is a little confusing.

Do I think that complicated Alps are better than the Matias ones? I don't know. I really love the Matias switches. The Clicky switches they have remain some of my favorite switches.

[dustinhxc]

Matias as good as vintage ALPS in your opinion or should I get a Duck Eagle or Viper?

Well you can put Matias switches into a Duck Eagle, Viper, or Mini. And you can put complicated Alps switches into a Matias board. So your question is a little confusing.

Do I think that complicated Alps are better than the Matias ones? I don't know. I really love the Matias switches. The Clicky switches they have remain some of my favorite switches.

Sorry, yes I dont know anything about ALPs haha So the difference is Matias vs Complicated? Matias are better in your opinion? Thats all I was wondering. Ive never owned ALPs so didnt know the different types.

[nubbinator]

Sorry, yes I dont know anything about ALPs haha So the difference is Matias vs Complicated? Matias are better in your opinion? Thats all I was wondering. Ive never owned ALPs so didnt know the different types.

Define better.  You are more limited in what you can do with Mathias Alps switches, but they are nice...if you like the kinds of switches they offer.  I still love my vintage Alps more than the Mathias Alps I've tried. 

[dustinhxc]

Sorry, yes I dont know anything about ALPs haha So the difference is Matias vs Complicated? Matias are better in your opinion? Thats all I was wondering. Ive never owned ALPs so didnt know the different types.

Define better.  You are more limited in what you can do with Mathias Alps switches, but they are nice...if you like the kinds of switches they offer.  I still love my vintage Alps more than the Mathias Alps I've tried.

I will rephrase this. I plan to own only one ALPs board. Maybe 2 though. I hear ALPs has a ton of switch styles. My favorite Topre are 45g. My favorite MX are clears with 62g. So not sure which ALPs Id like.

[nubbinator]

Probably tactile Green or Browns...you know, the super rare ones.

You might like Orange or Salmon Alps too.  If you want a little of the rubbery goodness that Topre provides, dampened Cream Alps or Mathias Quiet Alps might be for you.

[dustinhxc]

Probably tactile Green or Browns...you know, the super rare ones.

You might like Orange or Salmon Alps too.  If you want a little of the rubbery goodness that Topre provides, dampened Cream Alps or Mathias Quiet Alps might be for you.

Thanks for the suggestions! I really like the Orange I saw Sifo had a year ago.. 

[CPTBadAss]

Thanks for the suggestions! I really like the Orange I saw Sifo had a year ago.. 

That wasn't Sifo's, he just posted a picture of it.

Sorry, yes I dont know anything about ALPs haha So the difference is Matias vs Complicated? Matias are better in your opinion? Thats all I was wondering. Ive never owned ALPs so didnt know the different types.

No, they're not better. If I had to pick my top three favorite Alps switches, it would be:

1) Complicated Blue Alps
2) Complicated Green Alps
3) Matias Clicky

Again, it's not better or worst, they're just like MX switches in that you find what you like. But Alps switches are far more complicated. Condition matters much more. There are many clones. There are complicated and simplified Alps switches.

Based on your fondness for 62g Clears, I think you'd like Salmon or Orange Alps. But it's hard to say until you try them for yourself.

[dustinhxc]

Thanks for the suggestions! I really like the Orange I saw Sifo had a year ago.. 

That wasn't Sifo's, he just posted a picture of it.

Sorry, yes I dont know anything about ALPs haha So the difference is Matias vs Complicated? Matias are better in your opinion? Thats all I was wondering. Ive never owned ALPs so didnt know the different types.

No, they're not better. If I had to pick my top three favorite Alps switches, it would be:

1) Complicated Blue Alps
2) Complicated Green Alps
3) Matias Clicky

Again, it's not better or worst, they're just like MX switches in that you find what you like. But Alps switches are far more complicated. Condition matters much more. There are many clones. There are complicated and simplified Alps switches.

Based on your fondness for 62g Clears, I think you'd like Salmon or Orange Alps. But it's hard to say until you try them for yourself.

Yes, not better but preferred is what I meant. Oh alright, thanks for the reply. Sounds like I may have to try out Orange or Salmon. Thank You,

[CPTBadAss]

Anywho, I'm really stuck on the teal colors that Matt30 has for his Midnight set. Also people have been posting teal pictures like Den441 which I'm really into. Please the cream/white/grey + teal colors would make it easy to match spacebars.

Show Image

I'd really like Yolch but it's hard to find black spacebars. I think the black AT101W and the Toshiba laptop keyboards are the only sources of dark spacebars that I can think of and the Toshiba spacebars I have are very odd sizes.

[Hak Foo]

The Ducky 1008/1087XM also feature a black 6.25x spacebar.  It does have the Ducky logo printed on the side though.

[CPTBadAss]

Ah thanks Hak Foo. Forgot about that set since I really dislike my 1087XM 

[Hak Foo]

Well, in a more abstract sense, there are a huge variety of switches referred to loosely as ALPS.  ALPS, the actual company, stopped making their eponymous switches about a decade ago, but other companies continued to make switches with similar specs and the same plug for keycaps.  Moreover, there were a wide variety of switch types manufactured by them-- some linear, some tactile, some with little rubber dealies to cut down the noise.

Matias is one of the latest in that tradition.  Their switches are of a nice, uniform quality, and made with a clear enclosure which makes them amenable to some designs of backlit board that other ALPS switches couldn't easily do.

"Complicated" vs. "Simplified" is very much a personal taste thing.  Complicated switches are no longer available except through buying and disassembling a vintage board.

[Badwrench]

Anywho, I'm really stuck on the teal colors that Matt30 has for his Midnight set. Also people have been posting teal pictures like Den441 which I'm really into. Please the cream/white/grey + teal colors would make it easy to match spacebars.

Show Image

I'd really like Yolch but it's hard to find black spacebars. I think the black AT101W and the Toshiba laptop keyboards are the only sources of dark spacebars that I can think of and the Toshiba spacebars I have are very odd sizes.

One option for a dark spacebar is to dye it yourself. 

As for keeping a teal/cream/beige/grey, I think that is where we are heading.  With this community, I dont feel that the lack of a matching spacebar is going to stop us. 

[ComradeSniper]

As boring as it may be, a simple beige and white set could be hugely valuable as an "infill" thing.

If you want to put decent caps on an AT101W, a Ducky 1008XM, a Sprit (did he ever release the ALPS boards?), Kingsaver, or GH122, you're almost certainly going to go mad trying to find a few modifiers.

I could see an inexpensive "super-Tsangan kit" being quite useful:

Bottom rows: a full set of 1.25x modifiers, as well as 1.5-1-1.5 1.5-1-1.5
ANSI 2.25x enter.  1.5x |\.
2.0x backspace
Potentially Kingsaver-sized right column keys
LED and non-LED lock keys
Potentially a function row for people scavenging from old boards with only ten function keys

Take that set, combine it with cheap caps from a Focus 2001, an Acer 6311, or some a random Chicony board, and you can cover a LOT of more modern layout needs.

Yes, not everyone would need every key, but I think this has to be a "You subsidize the parts I want, and in exchange I subsidize the ones you want"  situation.

I would love this, but wouldn't we have to pay big bucks for molds for the odd keycap sizes?

[Matias]

I suggest asking Matias about how to source Alps spacebars.

We use and stock 1x7 and 1x5.5 spacebars in both white and black.  If you want different colours, you could always dye the white ones.

We also have spacebar drawings for 1x1, 1x2.75, 1x4.5, 1x5.5, 1x6.25, 1x7, 1.5x2.5, and 1.5x4.5.

Tooling for 1.5x2.5 and 1.5x4.5 will be finished soon.  For the others, we can do temporary tooling that produces spacebars in multiples of 20pcs.

[jacobolus]

We also have spacebar drawings for 1x1, 1x2.75, 1x4.5, 1x5.5, 1x6.25, 1x7, 1.5x2.5, and 1.5x4.5.

Tooling for 1.5x2.5 and 1.5x4.5 will be finished soon.  For the others, we can do temporary tooling that produces spacebars in multiples of 20pcs.

Personally I’m very excited about 1x1, 1x2.75, and 1.5x2.5. I’d also really love to see 1.5x1, 1x1.5, and maybe 1x2 caps in spacebar profile, but I understand there has to be a limit somewhere. :-)

I think these new spacebar sizes, if the caps are relatively easily/cheaply available, will open up a lot of interesting layout possibilities.

Matias: have you see the Alt and Ctrl keys on the Wang 725? I really like the convex spacebar-ish profile on those, shown here on CaptainBadass’s awesome Kingsaver:

Kingsaver by CaptainBadass, on Flickr

[nubbinator]

They look cool, but they feel god awful to type with, IMO.  I want to swap those Ctrl and Alt caps out because they feel terrible.

[jacobolus]

They look cool, but they feel god awful to type with, IMO.  I want to swap those Ctrl and Alt caps out because they feel terrible.

Are you serious? Wow, I think they’re wonderful, the best modifier caps I’ve ever tried. :-)