Headphone Thread.

[treefinger]

My little corner of joy. HD 600, WA6 Modi. Not pictured I have a DT770 250ohm, RHA MA750s and a couple of other IEMs.

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Mmmm....delicious. Kudos for the homemade stand!

[demik]

Still loving my th600. And to think at one point I was going to sell them.

[ttzhou]

Still loving my th600. And to think at one point I was going to sell them.

sell em and buy the th900. 

[GL1TCH3D]

Still loving my th600. And to think at one point I was going to sell them.

sell em and buy the th900. 

I concur



Just look at that wood 

[demik]

I like the matte black of the 600 a lot more tbh

[GL1TCH3D]

I like the matte black of the 600 a lot more tbh

I thought you didn't even like headphones =(

[demik]

What made you think that?

[Rayoui]

Schiit Lyr (Gen1) with Amperex Orange Globe A-frames
Bifrost Uber
Sennheiser HD800 (Moon Audio Black Dragon cable)
Beyerdynamic T1 (Gen1)

In the background:
SAE 2200 power amp (rebuilt with new caps and toroidal transformer)
KEF Q300

Not pictured:
HiFiMAN HE-500 (Moon Audio Silver Dragon cable)
AKG Q701 (K712 pads)
AKG K553
Magni (Gen1)

Contemplating one of the new upgrades for the Bifrost. I don't really think the Multibit upgrade is worth the cost and hassle of sending off the Bifrost to have the software flashed. I wonder how much sonic difference the 4490 would have? I don't really care about the measurements all that much.

[Bevo]

Schiit Lyr (Gen1) with Amperex Orange Globe A-frames
Bifrost Uber
Sennheiser HD800 (Moon Audio Black Dragon cable)
Beyerdynamic T1 (Gen1)

In the background:
SAE 2200 power amp (rebuilt with new caps and toroidal transformer)
KEF Q300

Not pictured:
HiFiMAN HE-500 (Moon Audio Silver Dragon cable)
AKG Q701 (K712 pads)
AKG K553
Magni (Gen1)

Contemplating one of the new upgrades for the Bifrost. I don't really think the Multibit upgrade is worth the cost and hassle of sending off the Bifrost to have the software flashed. I wonder how much sonic difference the 4490 would have? I don't really care about the measurements all that much.

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How do you find the black dragon with the hd800? Does it emphasise the bass a bit more? I have a Vero full range cable coming soon with XLR termination to pair with my HDVD800 but was contemplating a black dragon before that purchase

[Rayoui]

How do you find the black dragon with the hd800? Does it emphasise the bass a bit more? I have a Vero full range cable coming soon with XLR termination to pair with my HDVD800 but was contemplating a black dragon before that purchase

The Black Dragon slightly emphasizes the HD800's lower mids and bass while reducing the treble peak ever so slightly. It makes the overall sound a tiny bit fuller without losing any clarity. Don't expect any huge changes though; the difference is slight.

I didn't notice any difference in the HE-500's sound after switching to the Silver Dragon but it did get rid of the annoying microphonics of the stock cable.

[Steezus]

Schiit Lyr (Gen1) with Amperex Orange Globe A-frames
Bifrost Uber
Sennheiser HD800 (Moon Audio Black Dragon cable)
Beyerdynamic T1 (Gen1)

In the background:
SAE 2200 power amp (rebuilt with new caps and toroidal transformer)
KEF Q300

Not pictured:
HiFiMAN HE-500 (Moon Audio Silver Dragon cable)
AKG Q701 (K712 pads)
AKG K553
Magni (Gen1)

Contemplating one of the new upgrades for the Bifrost. I don't really think the Multibit upgrade is worth the cost and hassle of sending off the Bifrost to have the software flashed. I wonder how much sonic difference the 4490 would have? I don't really care about the measurements all that much.

Show Image

I'm thinking of getting either the beyerdynamic T1 or the HiFiMAN HE-500 or possible another model. Which one would you recommend, my audio set up is lacking quite a bit with a dt 770 pro, o2 amp, centrance odac.

[Rayoui]

I'm thinking of getting either the beyerdynamic T1 or the HiFiMAN HE-500 or possible another model. Which one would you recommend, my audio set up is lacking quite a bit with a dt 770 pro, o2 amp, centrance odac.

That really depends on your listening preferences because they are both very different. The HE-500 is a bit warmer than neutral and has more forward lower-mids. The bass is very powerful and extends fantastically low but isn't overpowering. Treble is crisp but laid-back. The soundstage is a bit small and lacking in distinct centerstage but the ability of the planar magnetic driver to layer and separate sounds more than adequately makes up for it. Vocals sound full-bodied and warm. It has a bit of a laid-back sound and does fine with poorly mastered tracks. It's not a microscope for detail but it doesn't sound veiled either. It's pretty close to neutral but with a distinct planar-like presentation. I really like the HE-500 with EDM because of its well extended and impactful bass.

The T1 can be a bit bright and I find it to be less extended in the low end compared to the HE-500 and HD800. However, it has one of the best midranges I've ever heard. It has somewhat forward upper mids and is spectacularly smooth and grain free. The emphasized upper mids pushes vocals to the front. I particularly enjoy female vocals with the T1. It has the most raw detail retrieval I've ever heard in a headphone, even more so than the HD800. As far as soundstage, it's larger in size than the HE-500 with a more distinct centerstage but not as large as the HD800. It has very precise positioning and separation of sounds. When listening to classical music, the HD800 sounds to me like I'm in a large concert hall seated in the center about halfway back in the room. The T1 sounds as though I'm in the same hall but now seated in the second row. The HE-500 sounds like all the sound is contained in a small room with less defined positioning but very good separation and layering. The T1 has an energetic sound and makes music fun to listen to. I like it for classical, ambient electronic/chill and some alternative rock, as long as it's well produced. Poorly mastered tracks can sometimes be unpleasant because of the T1's treble energy. If you're used to the Beyer house sound, it probably won't bother you.

The O2 will work with both but won't be ideal. The HE-500 is a planar magnetic headphone and will do well with an amp that can push >1 watt into 38 ohms. The T1 is 600 ohms and IME pairs well with tubes. An OTL amp would work well.

[Steezus]

I'm thinking of getting either the beyerdynamic T1 or the HiFiMAN HE-500 or possible another model. Which one would you recommend, my audio set up is lacking quite a bit with a dt 770 pro, o2 amp, centrance odac.

That really depends on your listening preferences because they are both very different. The HE-500 is a bit warmer than neutral and has more forward lower-mids. The bass is very powerful and extends fantastically low but isn't overpowering. Treble is crisp but laid-back. The soundstage is a bit small and lacking in distinct centerstage but the ability of the planar magnetic driver to layer and separate sounds more than adequately makes up for it. Vocals sound full-bodied and warm. It has a bit of a laid-back sound and does fine with poorly mastered tracks. It's not a microscope for detail but it doesn't sound veiled either. It's pretty close to neutral but with a distinct planar-like presentation. I really like the HE-500 with EDM because of its well extended and impactful bass.

The T1 can be a bit bright and I find it to be less extended in the low end compared to the HE-500 and HD800. However, it has one of the best midranges I've ever heard. It has somewhat forward upper mids and is spectacularly smooth and grain free. The emphasized upper mids pushes vocals to the front. I particularly enjoy female vocals with the T1. It has the most raw detail retrieval I've ever heard in a headphone, even more so than the HD800. As far as soundstage, it's larger in size than the HE-500 with a more distinct centerstage but not as large as the HD800. It has very precise positioning and separation of sounds. When listening to classical music, the HD800 sounds to me like I'm in a large concert hall seated in the center about halfway back in the room. The T1 sounds as though I'm in the same hall but now seated in the second row. The HE-500 sounds like all the sound is contained in a small room with less defined positioning but very good separation and layering. The T1 has an energetic sound and makes music fun to listen to. I like it for classical, ambient electronic/chill and some alternative rock, as long as it's well produced. Poorly mastered tracks can sometimes be unpleasant because of the T1's treble energy. If you're used to the Beyer house sound, it probably won't bother you.

The O2 will work with both but won't be ideal. The HE-500 is a planar magnetic headphone and will do well with an amp that can push >1 watt into 38 ohms. The T1 is 600 ohms and IME pairs well with tubes. An OTL amp would work well.

Thank you very much for you explanation. I was definitely planning on upgrading my setup as whole with a new amp, headphones, and all. I kind of like a more semi-open and closed sound myself, I generally not like to have it too open because then others can what I was listening today. The HE-500 just look very appealing though, the T1 pricing on amazon is also very interesting. If I can scrap the cash together in time I think I may just pull the trigger on the T1 if the price hovers around what it's currently at.

[Rayoui]

Thank you very much for you explanation. I was definitely planning on upgrading my setup as whole with a new amp, headphones, and all. I kind of like a more semi-open and closed sound myself, I generally not like to have it too open because then others can what I was listening today. The HE-500 just look very appealing though, the T1 pricing on amazon is also very interesting. If I can scrap the cash together in time I think I may just pull the trigger on the T1 if the price hovers around what it's currently at.

Beyerdynamic just released a gen 2 version of the T1 so the gen 1 has dropped significantly in price. Beyer claims the gen 2 has a bit fuller low end and slightly tamed treble but I haven't heard it yet. At its current pricing, the T1 gen 1 is an absolute steal (as long as you are a fan of the Beyer house sound).

The HE-500 has also been discontinued in favor of the newer HE-560. I haven't heard the HE-560 either but those that have say it is not just an incremental upgrade to the HE-500 but instead sounds like a completely different headphone. The best way to find an HE-500 is probably to look for a good price on a used one.

[blueangel2323]

For those who haven't heard, Sennheiser has just re-released the world's best headphones - the Orpheus system - for a mere $55,000.
http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/6/9680990/sennheiser-orpheus-handmade-headphones-electrostatic-hands-on

There is also a more sensible HD800S, which is a slightly improved version of the HD800, including smoother treble for those who complained about peakiness in that region.

[ttzhou]

For those who haven't heard, Sennheiser has just re-released the world's best headphones - the Orpheus system - for a mere $55,000.
http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/6/9680990/sennheiser-orpheus-handmade-headphones-electrostatic-hands-on

There is also a more sensible HD800S, which is a slightly improved version of the HD800, including smoother treble for those who complained about peakiness in that region.

Yea, Sennheiser sort of lost a bit of my respect after these (not that my opinion matters lol).

The HD800S basically looks like they copied the Anaxilus mod, then jacked up the price.

The Orpheus, while I have high hopes that it will sound amazing and god-tier and cure sexually transmitted diseases, cannot be justified in my eyes when you can get a fully treated room with an amazing speaker system for likely cheaper prices. I also worry about the multiple parts where that amp can actually *break*, from an engineering perspective.

[Bevo]

For those who haven't heard, Sennheiser has just re-released the world's best headphones - the Orpheus system - for a mere $55,000.
http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/6/9680990/sennheiser-orpheus-handmade-headphones-electrostatic-hands-on

There is also a more sensible HD800S, which is a slightly improved version of the HD800, including smoother treble for those who complained about peakiness in that region.

Yea, Sennheiser sort of lost a bit of my respect after these (not that my opinion matters lol).

The HD800S basically looks like they copied the Anaxilus mod, then jacked up the price.

The Orpheus, while I have high hopes that it will sound amazing and god-tier and cure sexually transmitted diseases, cannot be justified in my eyes when you can get a fully treated room with an amazing speaker system for likely cheaper prices. I also worry about the multiple parts where that amp can actually *break*, from an engineering perspective.

The new Orpheus is like a work of art. They don't expect the average consumer to buy it...  It's just there because they are able to build it. I have no doubt that it will increase in value or at least keep its value despite being already ridiculously priced.

Jude has also said that it's by far the best sounding headphone he has ever heard and I'm sure will remain the best for a fairly long time.

[davkol]

That's Jude and head-fi though. It's a business.

[Bevo]

I guess we can just wait for other reviewers

[fuzzybaffy]

The Orpheus, while I have high hopes that it will sound amazing and god-tier and cure sexually transmitted diseases, cannot be justified in my eyes when you can get a fully treated room with an amazing speaker system for likely cheaper prices.

Considering speaker systems can go up to hundreds of thousands dollars, I'm willing to bet the second Orpheus will sound better than any speaker system in the $50,000 range. You're comparing what probably would be the world's best headphones to a not-quite summit-fi speaker setup. Headphones have always been better in terms of price/performance ratio, which is the reason why most people get into headphones to begin with.

I also worry about the multiple parts where that amp can actually *break*, from an engineering perspective.

How do you know? You haven't even seen the insides of the thing. I suppose you're talking about all the moving parts, but one would hope people aren't blowing their entire life savings on the thing. If you're gonna buy a $50,000 headphone, you should be able to afford a bunch of other luxuries, including repairs.

[fuzzybaffy]

That's Jude and head-fi though. It's a business.

Jude and head-fi gets a lot of slack for being an advertising board (and I agree it is an advertising board), but honestly... he's pretty even-keeled in his reviews. Or at least the few reviews I've read of his. He doesn't always say "OMFG THE LATEST AND GREATEST" for everything he writes about.

[ttzhou]

That's Jude and head-fi though. It's a business.

Jude and head-fi gets a lot of slack for being an advertising board (and I agree it is an advertising board), but honestly... he's pretty even-keeled in his reviews. Or at least the few reviews I've read of his. He doesn't always say "OMFG THE LATEST AND GREATEST" for everything he writes about.

In his SR-009 video, he claims it is better than Orpheus.

In his Orpheus 2 video he claims that he believes the factory refurbished original Orpheus is now the best he's ever heard. Then he proclaims Orpheus 2 to be better. Maybe he really feels that way. But he is far from even keeled. In fact, he pretty much lauds everything he reviews if it is from a sponsor. You will disagree with me. That's fine.

The Orpheus, while I have high hopes that it will sound amazing and god-tier and cure sexually transmitted diseases, cannot be justified in my eyes when you can get a fully treated room with an amazing speaker system for likely cheaper prices.

Considering speaker systems can go up to hundreds of thousands dollars, I'm willing to bet the second Orpheus will sound better than any speaker system in the $50,000 range. You're comparing what probably would be the world's best headphones to a not-quite summit-fi speaker setup. Headphones have always been better in terms of price/performance ratio, which is the reason why most people get into headphones to begin with.

I also worry about the multiple parts where that amp can actually *break*, from an engineering perspective.

How do you know? You haven't even seen the insides of the thing. I suppose you're talking about all the moving parts, but one would hope people aren't blowing their entire life savings on the thing. If you're gonna buy a $50,000 headphone, you should be able to afford a bunch of other luxuries, including repairs.

How do you know it will be the world's best headphone? No one has reviewed it yet. Have you ever heard a full blown 50 000 speaker system? Most people will  gladly tell you, even on head-fi, that at that price, the speaker system beats out the headphone. There are people who say that these speaker systems already trump the original Orpheus at that price point.

As for the worrying about breakability: http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/06/sennheiser-orpheus-hands-on-but-no-ears/

It's simple engineering principles. Increasing the complexity of an object increases the amount of points at which it can fail. Furthermore, if you're paying 50 000, you better ****ing expect perfection. Try being Ferrari and telling a client, "Oh yeah, the car you just bought might have a bum exhaust, but you can just pay for it since you already forked over 100k..."

[Rayoui]

I've never heard an Orpheus or a $50,000 speaker setup, but I can tell you that my KEF Q300s sound better, have a much more impressive soundstage and have a far more realistic and tangible presentation than my HD800 which cost more than twice what the speakers did. YMMV because like everything in audio, it's all subjective.

[fuzzybaffy]

In his Orpheus 2 video he claims that he believes the factory refurbished original Orpheus is now the best he's ever heard. Then he proclaims Orpheus 2 to be better. Maybe he really feels that way. But he is far from even keeled. In fact, he pretty much lauds everything he reviews if it is from a sponsor. You will disagree with me. That's fine.

You act as if people can't change their minds. There are other reviews where Jude doesn't proclaim something to be "the best in the world". Trust me.

And Jude isn't a salesman for the Orpheus... trust me. Because it's rare as **** as it is, and the people who have bought the Orpehus didn't buy it because of Jude's opinions. Trust me.

It's simple engineering principles. Increasing the complexity of an object increases the amount of points at which it can fail. Furthermore, if you're paying 50 000, you better ****ing expect perfection. Try being Ferrari and telling a client, "Oh yeah, the car you just bought might have a bum exhaust, but you can just pay for it since you already forked over 100k..."

Ok... so what's your point exactly? If it's $50,000, we should "****ing expect" perfection, so maybe it will be? And you're already assuming it's not. Make a decision on your opinions. Also, the guy in the article you posted was using was a PROTOTYPE. 

Also... luxury cars do break down a lot, if you don't know. BMWs, Mercedes have terrible reps for breaking down a lot, and being expensive to fix. Doesn't stop the wealthy from buying them because the wealthy make sure they can afford the fixes before buying it.

but I can tell you that my KEF Q300s sound better, have a much more impressive soundstage and have a far more realistic and tangible presentation than my HD800 which cost more than twice what the speakers did.

I'm pretty sure that's a misleading comment, because you only commented on the KEF Q300s soundstage and presentation. And, yes... yours is a subjective opinion. But in general, most people see headphones being better than speakers in terms of price to performance ratio.

[ttzhou]

Look fuzzybuffy. I think it's pretty clear you're not going to budge from your opinions, and you want to defend Jude. That's fine. I'm too tired to critique the flaws in your logic, as well as your seeming inability to accept opinions which are contrary to yours.

All I'm going to say is that I will most assuredly not "trust" you, lol, just because you say "trust me" three times without any semblance of rational evidence to substantiate your claims. My brain is not wired that way.

Have a good one.

[Rayoui]

but I can tell you that my KEF Q300s sound better, have a much more impressive soundstage and have a far more realistic and tangible presentation than my HD800 which cost more than twice what the speakers did.

I'm pretty sure that's a misleading comment, because you only commented on the KEF Q300s soundstage and presentation. And, yes... yours is a subjective opinion. But in general, most people see headphones being better than speakers in terms of price to performance ratio.

I wasn't trying to be misleading. I can go into more detail if you'd like.

The Q300s have an overall much more neutral frequency response across the board. They don't have the peakiness in the treble that is present in the HD800. The HD800 extends a bit lower into sub bass than the Q300 drivers themselves but paired with the Q400 subwoofer the sub bass extension is better than any headphone I've heard. Mids are very neutral; not overly warm but not dry or grainy either. The lack of any swinging peaks in the frequency response makes instruments sound very natural and real. Using the Lyr with Amperex Orange Globes as a preamp, the sound becomes somewhat smooth and liquid. Sounds are presented with distinct separation and laser precise imaging, laying out the stage in an arc in front of you with no gaps or holes. The distinct imaging of individual sound sources does wonders for the realism of the sound, as long as the recording isn't overly compressed. I've simply not come across another headphone yet that can even touch a modest speaker setup in terms of soundstaging. One area where the HD800 or similar headphone will beat out speakers in this class is in micro details, as headphones such as these tend to bring far more fine details out of the sound than you would even hear at a live performance. Sometimes this is desired, which is why I still have many different pairs of headphones around. They all bring something unique to the table, and often I prefer using them over my speakers. But when it comes to closing my eyes and imagining that I am in the concert hall with the symphony orchestra, headphones just can't compete with a decent set of speakers. All IMHO of course.

Also, I'm not completely disagreeing with you. In general, headphones tend to be much more accessible than speakers. In my case, I found a speaker setup that I find outperforms my headphones in almost all areas and I didn't have to spend $50,000.

When you get your Orpheus, be sure to let us know how it sounds.

[fuzzybaffy]

Look fuzzybuffy. I think it's pretty clear you're not going to budge from your opinions, and you want to defend Jude. That's fine. I'm too tired to critique the flaws in your logic, as well as your seeming inability to accept opinions which are contrary to yours.

All I'm going to say is that I will most assuredly not "trust" you, lol, just because you say "trust me" three times without any semblance of rational evidence to substantiate your claims. My brain is not wired that way.

Have a good one.

I wasn't saying you have to like the Orpheus 2. I was just questioning your writing off of Sennheiser and how much you "lost respect" for them, when you haven't even heard the headphones.

When you get your Orpheus, be sure to let us know how it sounds.

A sublte underhanded dig, about me probably never being able to afford the Orpheus, I see. Makes it hard for me to take your opinions seriously.

[deductivemonkee]

Sennheiser HD 518 or rs 160? Or something else?
I'm buying on the cheap, Canadians get ripped off. $79.99 USD for 518, $150 CAD for 518 :/

[GuilleAcoustic]

I'm the happy owner of an AKG 701 but it really needs an headphone amp to shine. Planned to build one, but no ETA lol. Bought Marshall's Major 2 for transportation and office. Pretty happy with them but I definitely prefere opened back cans.

[ttzhou]

Sennheiser HD 518 or rs 160? Or something else?
I'm buying on the cheap, Canadians get ripped off. $79.99 USD for 518, $150 CAD for 518 :/

check kijiji. i see 598s for sale for like ~150CAD, without tax.

[GL1TCH3D]

Sennheiser HD 518 or rs 160? Or something else?
I'm buying on the cheap, Canadians get ripped off. $79.99 USD for 518, $150 CAD for 518 :/

check kijiji. i see 598s for sale for like ~150CAD, without tax.

Dayum...

Here in montreal people ask more than MSRP for sennheiser headphones...

I've seen HD650s up for $700...

[Steezus]

I see some pretty decent headphones show up in classifieds as well, you may be able to get a good pair for cheap.

[Infrared]

Loving my DT880's at home. For school I use Shure SE 315's. I dont like the Shure's lol.

[cookiesowns]

Contemplating one of the new upgrades for the Bifrost. I don't really think the Multibit upgrade is worth the cost and hassle of sending off the Bifrost to have the software flashed. I wonder how much sonic difference the 4490 would have? I don't really care about the measurements all that much.

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Man, I'm upset. I paid like $500+ for my bifrost Uber

Does the new one have the same analog stage as the uber?

[dan002]

Using Modi 2 and I'm noticing that a good quality DAC makes all the difference. Comparing it to the HiFiBerry DAC is was originally using, the sound is a lot better.

[ttzhou]

Dynamat modded my Denon's.

Much better bass; what little midbass hump there was is gone, realllllllllyyyyy nice sub-bass that digs deep (on Zimmer's "Why So Serious", you can hear the incredibly deep notes at 3:25 or so). I can easily hear 20-Hz tones.

I wonder if there is a "sub-basshead" moniker?

This makes me want a TH-900 even more. 

[Rayoui]

Contemplating one of the new upgrades for the Bifrost. I don't really think the Multibit upgrade is worth the cost and hassle of sending off the Bifrost to have the software flashed. I wonder how much sonic difference the 4490 would have? I don't really care about the measurements all that much.

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Man, I'm upset. I paid like $500+ for my bifrost Uber

Does the new one have the same analog stage as the uber?

It's supposedly upgraded again. Not sure how much of an upgrade it is over the Uber.

[PadawanGeek]

Bought a used pair of Aurisonics ASG1+, set aside the ratty lookin' stock cable and plugged in my Effect Audio silver cable. I must say I like the sound I'm hearing, nice treble (not sparkly at all), forward sound mids and vocals, with some good bass (not in the least bit boomy, quite controlled with decent extension).


I'd also gotten a pair of Dyson Audio balanced 4pin HiFiMan XLR cable from eBay, took a tad over three weeks to get to me though.

A very good and worthwhile purchase for me as the cable can be used on these badboys.......had the Denons modded with HFM sockets.....

Enjoying sweet sound with my HFM HE500 + 4pin balanced XLR + Oppo HA1....

[cookiesowns]

Contemplating one of the new upgrades for the Bifrost. I don't really think the Multibit upgrade is worth the cost and hassle of sending off the Bifrost to have the software flashed. I wonder how much sonic difference the 4490 would have? I don't really care about the measurements all that much.

Show Image

Man, I'm upset. I paid like $500+ for my bifrost Uber

Does the new one have the same analog stage as the uber?

It's supposedly upgraded again. Not sure how much of an upgrade it is over the Uber.

Well **** me. You know what they say about early adopters, but this year I've been totally screwed lol..

How much do you suppose the Uber will sell for? $350?

[Rayoui]

Well **** me. You know what they say about early adopters, but this year I've been totally screwed lol..

How much do you suppose the Uber will sell for? $350?

You don't have to sell your Bifrost. You can purchase the 4490 board as an upgrade for 70USD and install it yourself.

[cookiesowns]

Well **** me. You know what they say about early adopters, but this year I've been totally screwed lol..

How much do you suppose the Uber will sell for? $350?

You don't have to sell your Bifrost. You can purchase the 4490 board as an upgrade for 70USD and install it yourself.

Well the analog stage is better on the new bifrost no?

[Rayoui]

Well **** me. You know what they say about early adopters, but this year I've been totally screwed lol..

How much do you suppose the Uber will sell for? $350?

You don't have to sell your Bifrost. You can purchase the 4490 board as an upgrade for 70USD and install it yourself.

Well the analog stage is better on the new bifrost no?

The analog stage is located on the DAC board so if you get the 4490 upgrade you will also be getting whatever new analog stage upgrade comes with it. The base Bifrost unit does not change; only the DAC and USB boards are upgraded.

The only exception is the multibit upgrade. That one requires you to send in your Bifrost to have new firmware flashed.

[lakiozoon]

I'm sure its been mentioned a few times in this thread, but please remember that your headphones will only be as good as your source. If you don't update your source before updating your headphones, you're really doing yourself a disservice.

If you're like me, and mostly listen to digital sources (MP3, FLAC, ALAC, etc), that means DAC. Which is why buying even a small DAC/AMP combo will go a long way to making your existing, let alone new, headphones sound better. This is assuming plugging it into a computer, or a device that allows either line-out or USB audio.

Can't agree with this enough. I've always found built in audio in phones and computers to be mediocre at best.
Frankly I can't even find anything worse except maybe the middle of the barrel ipods which had decent dac chips but really bad amping.
Just like a pair of headphones' frequency range doesn't mean jack **** about its quality, a DAC's SNR has very little bearing on the actual quality.

My experience is quite the opposite. Being able to switch between good DAC and cheap DAC "on the fly", during playback, only then I noticed how little improvement there is.
Most noticeable differences in sound quality I noticed are (in this order of magnitude):
- headphones (different headphones are miles apart)
- audio source (here I refer to the difference between low quality MP3 and FLAC), the difference is noticeable
- amplifier (a trained ear can hear some difference between amps, but with low impendance cans, the difference can be counterproductive)
- DAC (to my ears, the difference is almost non existant)
- cables (non existant)

[tronbeaver]

Definitely FLAC all the way!

[ttzhou]

Definitely FLAC all the way!

Take a 320 kbps vs. FLAC blind test.

Make note of how difficult or easy it is to discern the difference.

Then ask yourself if the size increase is worth it. And probably the money too.

[dan002]

I will disagree with the file size because a hard-drive is cheap now. For example I bought a Samsung 850 EVO 250GB for 90$.
Also for some, FLAC is an exact copy of a CD, and 320 is not. For those who like CD, they can be sure they will always have a
a perfect digital backup with FLAC.

[ttzhou]

I will disagree with the file size because a hard-drive is cheap now. For example I bought a Samsung 850 EVO 250GB for 90$.
Also for some, FLAC is an exact copy of a CD, and 320 is not. For those who like CD, they can be sure they will always have a
a perfect digital backup with FLAC.

that is false. FLAC is not exact copy of a CD. An uncompressed 44.1 kHz .wav file would be an exact copy of CD.

and like i said, if you think spending $90 to store music is worth your money, then that is fine. some people may, some people may not. i just don't think the quality difference, if you can even detect it, is worth it.

[keshley]

It's going to depend on the overall system. I can hear the difference between 320kbps MP3s and FLAC when using my IEMs, but not when using my inexpensive desktop monitors. Or my Klipsch Reference IIs for that matter, just not high-end enough (to perceive the difference, that is. I'm not unhappy with the Klipsch for movies, as that's what I bought them for).

But there's a noticeable difference when I have my IEMs in. I have MP3 and FLAC copies of several albums, and have put them on random, and I can pick out the FLAC versions every time. I notice it most with complex sounds, like cymbals, which makes sense if you know how MP3 compression works.

Having said that, I enjoy listening to MP3s just fine, and tend to have MP3s on my portable devices, and leave the FLAC copies at home. Unless its a device with ridiculous amounts of space...

[ttzhou]

But there's a noticeable difference when I have my IEMs in. I have MP3 and FLAC copies of several albums, and have put them on random, and I can pick out the FLAC versions every time. I notice it most with complex sounds, like cymbals, which makes sense if you know how MP3 compression works.

I agree that you can detect a difference if you try. My only argument is that to me, the minute quality difference (minute being in my eyes, of course) is not really worth the difference and hassle.

[keshley]

But there's a noticeable difference when I have my IEMs in. I have MP3 and FLAC copies of several albums, and have put them on random, and I can pick out the FLAC versions every time. I notice it most with complex sounds, like cymbals, which makes sense if you know how MP3 compression works.

I agree that you can detect a difference if you try. My only argument is that to me, the minute quality difference (minute being in my eyes, of course) is not really worth the difference and hassle.

I think it depends on what kind of listening too. Some people close their eyes, and enjoy the music by itself, while others listen to music in addition to another activity. If concentrating on the music exclusively, then I can see where FLAC is of greater value than to someone who augments another activity with music.