Headphone Thread.

[Bevo]

Just got my JH Angie's back from astell and kern. My favourite pair of headphones/earphones by far when paired with my zx2

[keshley]

Just got my JH Angie's back from astell and kern. My favourite pair of headphones/earphones by far when paired with my zx2

How's the user experience with the ZX2? I've looked at it fairly seriously in the past, but there's so many 'audiophile' grade media players that just have a terribad interface.

[Bevo]

It's an android interface. The reason i went zx2 over AK was the customisability. Tidal and spotify on it is actually pretty useful. Sound wise, its fantastic for what i listen to. I would say i like it better than my hd800 - hdvd800 desktop setup

[keshley]

It's an android interface. The reason i went zx2 over AK was the customisability. Tidal and spotify on it is actually pretty useful. Sound wise, its fantastic for what i listen to. I would say i like it better than my hd800 - hdvd800 desktop setup

Do you know if you have to use the Sony music app for the DAC to be fully utilized, or will any music app work? That was my gripe with some of them - only the vendor's app worked with all the features, and some of those apps are horrid.

[GL1TCH3D]

I tried a prototype zx2.

I believe the rep told me that you could install other apks on it but he was just a rep.

I'm using the ak240 which is better for my taste.

I found the ZX2 a little v shaped but had good power output.

The ak240 has poor power output. More ideal for very efficient headphones and IEMs but the balanced out makes it good for pairing with an amp, portable or otherwise.

[Bevo]

It's an android interface. The reason i went zx2 over AK was the customisability. Tidal and spotify on it is actually pretty useful. Sound wise, its fantastic for what i listen to. I would say i like it better than my hd800 - hdvd800 desktop setup

Do you know if you have to use the Sony music app for the DAC to be fully utilized, or will any music app work? That was my gripe with some of them - only the vendor's app worked with all the features, and some of those apps are horrid.

I have onkyo player on it and it works fine. It costs about 20 bucks though but the usability and the ability to sort tracks by bitrate is quite useful. You should definitely test both the ak series and the zx2 before purchasing though. I heard the new quest style DAP's are quite good as well.

[Bomble]

I'm thinking about getting some Shure SE215s for general daily use in something that isn't too expensive. Is there anything else around that price point that I should consider?

[fuzzybaffy]

I will disagree with the file size because a hard-drive is cheap now. For example I bought a Samsung 850 EVO 250GB for 90$.
Also for some, FLAC is an exact copy of a CD, and 320 is not. For those who like CD, they can be sure they will always have a
a perfect digital backup with FLAC.

that is false. FLAC is not exact copy of a CD. An uncompressed 44.1 kHz .wav file would be an exact copy of CD.

and like i said, if you think spending $90 to store music is worth your money, then that is fine. some people may, some people may not. i just don't think the quality difference, if you can even detect it, is worth it.

I'm confused... I thought FLAC's are lossless, which would mean they are exactly the same as .wav files, no?

[GL1TCH3D]

I will disagree with the file size because a hard-drive is cheap now. For example I bought a Samsung 850 EVO 250GB for 90$.
Also for some, FLAC is an exact copy of a CD, and 320 is not. For those who like CD, they can be sure they will always have a
a perfect digital backup with FLAC.

that is false. FLAC is not exact copy of a CD. An uncompressed 44.1 kHz .wav file would be an exact copy of CD.

and like i said, if you think spending $90 to store music is worth your money, then that is fine. some people may, some people may not. i just don't think the quality difference, if you can even detect it, is worth it.

I'm confused... I thought FLAC's are lossless, which would mean they are exactly the same as .wav files, no?

Flac is compressed. He's just differentiating between what's on the CD and what dan said.

You should be able to convert between flac and wav with no loss of quality (in theory). Wav is uncompressed and is what CDs use. A lot of programs now probably offer to rip directly into FLAC or MP3.

However some audiophiles "hear" a difference between flac and wav of the same bit depth and rate. (Just converted between the two)

All I know is that flac > mp3 in my experience. 320kbps mp3 is not enough.

[blueangel2323]

I'm thinking about getting some Shure SE215s for general daily use in something that isn't too expensive. Is there anything else around that price point that I should consider?

Consider:
RHA MA-750
Philips Fidelio S1
HiFiMAN RE-400

Depends on what kind of sound signature you're looking for. The RHA is the bassiest of the 3, the Philips is more balanced but still punchy, and the HifiMan is neutral to slightly mid-centric. If you're an absolute bass fiend, check out the Velodyne vPulse and B&W C5.

The Philips is also less effective at blocking out noise from your surroundings, if that's important.

[Rayoui]

I will disagree with the file size because a hard-drive is cheap now. For example I bought a Samsung 850 EVO 250GB for 90$.
Also for some, FLAC is an exact copy of a CD, and 320 is not. For those who like CD, they can be sure they will always have a
a perfect digital backup with FLAC.

that is false. FLAC is not exact copy of a CD. An uncompressed 44.1 kHz .wav file would be an exact copy of CD.

and like i said, if you think spending $90 to store music is worth your money, then that is fine. some people may, some people may not. i just don't think the quality difference, if you can even detect it, is worth it.

I'm confused... I thought FLAC's are lossless, which would mean they are exactly the same as .wav files, no?

Flac is compressed. He's just differentiating between what's on the CD and what dan said.

You should be able to convert between flac and wav with no loss of quality (in theory). Wav is uncompressed and is what CDs use. A lot of programs now probably offer to rip directly into FLAC or MP3.

However some audiophiles "hear" a difference between flac and wav of the same bit depth and rate. (Just converted between the two)

All I know is that flac > mp3 in my experience. 320kbps mp3 is not enough.

Some people claim to be able to hear a difference but FLAC and WAV produce mathematically identical audio streams. FLAC uses a lossless compression method which means it uncompresses into an exact copy of the original PCM audio stream (similar to ZIP compression). It's just another example of audio placebo, like $600 power cables.

[GL1TCH3D]

I will disagree with the file size because a hard-drive is cheap now. For example I bought a Samsung 850 EVO 250GB for 90$.
Also for some, FLAC is an exact copy of a CD, and 320 is not. For those who like CD, they can be sure they will always have a
a perfect digital backup with FLAC.

that is false. FLAC is not exact copy of a CD. An uncompressed 44.1 kHz .wav file would be an exact copy of CD.

and like i said, if you think spending $90 to store music is worth your money, then that is fine. some people may, some people may not. i just don't think the quality difference, if you can even detect it, is worth it.

I'm confused... I thought FLAC's are lossless, which would mean they are exactly the same as .wav files, no?

Flac is compressed. He's just differentiating between what's on the CD and what dan said.

You should be able to convert between flac and wav with no loss of quality (in theory). Wav is uncompressed and is what CDs use. A lot of programs now probably offer to rip directly into FLAC or MP3.

However some audiophiles "hear" a difference between flac and wav of the same bit depth and rate. (Just converted between the two)

All I know is that flac > mp3 in my experience. 320kbps mp3 is not enough.

Some people claim to be able to hear a difference but FLAC and WAV produce mathematically identical audio streams. FLAC uses a lossless compression method which means it uncompresses into an exact copy of the original PCM audio stream (similar to ZIP compression). It's just another example of audio placebo, like $600 power cables.

The only time I remember reading about it, the guy was claiming he could hear some noise from the decompression of flac.

That's why I put hear in quotations since I highly doubt that, and if he is, it's placebo based on knowing that one is wav and one isnt.

[keshley]

I will disagree with the file size because a hard-drive is cheap now. For example I bought a Samsung 850 EVO 250GB for 90$.
Also for some, FLAC is an exact copy of a CD, and 320 is not. For those who like CD, they can be sure they will always have a
a perfect digital backup with FLAC.

that is false. FLAC is not exact copy of a CD. An uncompressed 44.1 kHz .wav file would be an exact copy of CD.

and like i said, if you think spending $90 to store music is worth your money, then that is fine. some people may, some people may not. i just don't think the quality difference, if you can even detect it, is worth it.

I'm confused... I thought FLAC's are lossless, which would mean they are exactly the same as .wav files, no?

Flac is compressed. He's just differentiating between what's on the CD and what dan said.

You should be able to convert between flac and wav with no loss of quality (in theory). Wav is uncompressed and is what CDs use. A lot of programs now probably offer to rip directly into FLAC or MP3.

However some audiophiles "hear" a difference between flac and wav of the same bit depth and rate. (Just converted between the two)

All I know is that flac > mp3 in my experience. 320kbps mp3 is not enough.

Some people claim to be able to hear a difference but FLAC and WAV produce mathematically identical audio streams. FLAC uses a lossless compression method which means it uncompresses into an exact copy of the original PCM audio stream (similar to ZIP compression). It's just another example of audio placebo, like $600 power cables.

The only time I remember reading about it, the guy was claiming he could hear some noise from the decompression of flac.

That's why I put hear in quotations since I highly doubt that, and if he is, it's placebo based on knowing that one is wav and one isnt.

I've always been amused by the head-fiers that could 'hear' the difference. Probably one of the reasons I hardly go there anymore.

If there was a difference, FLAC wouldn't be lossless.

And if they can hear the 'decompression' of the file, well...  ) Didn't realize 0s and 1s had sound 

But then, people buy $300 USB cables, because apparently 0s and 1s can attenuate.

[fuzzybaffy]

There's no doubt head-fiers go a little overboard with defending their purchases. And, if FLACs are indeed "lossless", then I doubt there is any audible differences versus .wavs as well. I also laugh when people talk about "burning in" their solid-state amps.

BUT... I was at a recent head-fi meet, where Kimber Kable was there, and had a couple of Sony Z7's, one outfitted with stock cables, one outfitted with their Kimber Kables, and I definitely heard a difference. I could A/B them (although I didn't do it blindly) with ease, since I could just switch around the headphones, and it's definitely made me a believer in cables.

Also, if you go to this thread in Super Audio Best Friends (this is NOT head-fi): http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/measurements-mid-fi-dac-amp-comb-units-grace-schiit-ifi-lh-jds-etc.427/, the author ran into some issues with noise on one of the amp/DACs he was reviewing, and switching the USB cable made a difference. And it was a -measurable- difference.

[damorgue]

Woop woop, just got a pair of AKG sextett delivered. The seller sold them as "AKG headphones" with few images but I took a chance since I thought they looked like sextetts. I have identified them as EP sextetts now that I have them. The elastic band is worn and the pads quite flat but that is fixable. I have printed a support structure which goes inside the pads which holds them further from the grille for now.

They are awesome. I have a pair of K240 MK2 which I got recently and was dissapointed with already. Now that I can compare the new with the old I really understand why.

[GL1TCH3D]

There's no doubt head-fiers go a little overboard with defending their purchases. And, if FLACs are indeed "lossless", then I doubt there is any audible differences versus .wavs as well. I also laugh when people talk about "burning in" their solid-state amps.

BUT... I was at a recent head-fi meet, where Kimber Kable was there, and had a couple of Sony Z7's, one outfitted with stock cables, one outfitted with their Kimber Kables, and I definitely heard a difference. I could A/B them (although I didn't do it blindly) with ease, since I could just switch around the headphones, and it's definitely made me a believer in cables.

Also, if you go to this thread in Super Audio Best Friends (this is NOT head-fi): http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/measurements-mid-fi-dac-amp-comb-units-grace-schiit-ifi-lh-jds-etc.427/, the author ran into some issues with noise on one of the amp/DACs he was reviewing, and switching the USB cable made a difference. And it was a -measurable- difference.

One of my friends believes in cable burn in
At a meet he brought his hd800 with new cables, I forgot the brand, and plugged it into the bryston amp from someone else and it sounded awful (bryston Amps are super bright). He blamed it on cable burn in since the cable was too new.

Certain USB cables if poorly made can have issues. Or sometimes there's something built into the USB cables like apple or astell and Kern (you can't use a non-AK USB cable with your device. I still don't know what happened to my stolen AK). I can believe a USB cable swap can do something but only from bad to good, not good to "better".

Whether cables make a difference is up to you, I heard nothing different with my Q Cable on the Audeze LCD2.

If cables make that much of a difference to me I'll buy a stax with the money I'd spend on cables
 

[keshley]

I believe in analog cable material differences (silver vs copper) as there's attenuation differences, but digital is digital, doesnt matter what its made out of. A bad cable is a bad cable, but with digital, as long as the data gets from point a to b...

I suppose an unshielded cable could produce some noise downstream, but the cable would have to be particularly cheap.

Anyways!

I'm still deciding on a portable DAC/Amp. Just something to keep in my bag with low output impedence, as my Shures are only 9 ohm.

[GL1TCH3D]

I believe in analog cable material differences (silver vs copper) as there's attenuation differences, but digital is digital, doesnt matter what its made out of. A bad cable is a bad cable, but with digital, as long as the data gets from point a to b...

I suppose an unshielded cable could produce some noise downstream, but the cable would have to be particularly cheap.

Anyways!

I'm still deciding on a portable DAC/Amp. Just something to keep in my bag with low output impedence, as my Shures are only 9 ohm.

I'm always a fan of AK units.

I can understand the silver vs copper argument since that's different materials but most of the debate is over same material cables making differences. So, copper vs copper cables from different brands.

[fuzzybaffy]

Yea, I mean... I'm not going to assume all cables in the world are different. I'm sure there are a lot of bogus stuff out there (like the Audioquest cables that cost thousands of dollars), but I'm definitely a believer in Kimber Kables (I'm assuming those are analog cables?), at least.

As far as portable DAC/amp goes... what's your budget? The Chord Mojo seems to be a hit, but I myself purchased the Massdrop Grace m9xx exclusive. I haven't had a chance to check it out yet, but a lot of people seem to really like it.

[GL1TCH3D]

Yea, I mean... I'm not going to assume all cables in the world are different. I'm sure there are a lot of bogus stuff out there (like the Audioquest cables that cost thousands of dollars), but I'm definitely a believer in Kimber Kables (I'm assuming those are analog cables?), at least.

As far as portable DAC/amp goes... what's your budget? The Chord Mojo seems to be a hit, but I myself purchased the Massdrop Grace m9xx exclusive. I haven't had a chance to check it out yet, but a lot of people seem to really like it.

Chord hugo is huge for something to pocket. I just assumed that he meant something portable =/

[fuzzybaffy]

Yea, that was a mistake. I meant Chord Mojo.

[GL1TCH3D]

Yea, that was a mistake. I meant Chord Mojo.

Haha mojo is a lot smaller but still requires a source.

I still recommend a lower end AK unit at that price like the AK100ii.

The mojo might be better for absolute quality but you're stuck having a source for it unless you're just looking something to bring around and use with different computers.

[fuzzybaffy]

He did say "portable DAC/amp", not necessarily "DAP".

[GL1TCH3D]

He did say "portable DAC/amp", not necessarily "DAP".

That's why I said I assumed he meant a DAP

Most DAPs can function like a portable DAC / AMP like the AK and Fiio units, both of which accept USB in and the AK accepts coax(?).

[fuzzybaffy]

That's why I said I assumed he meant a DAP

Most DAPs can function like a portable DAC / AMP like the AK and Fiio units, both of which accept USB in and the AK accepts coax(?).

What is wrong with you? You assuming he meant "DAP" is merely your assumption. You're acting as if you're speaking for the guy and invalidating other people's suggestions.

And yes, I'm fully aware DAP's can function as a portable DAC/amp. That doesn't deny the fact that some standalone DAC/amps (like the Mojo, which is very clearly and obviously marketed for portable use) can be used in portable solutions.

[GL1TCH3D]

That's why I said I assumed he meant a DAP

Most DAPs can function like a portable DAC / AMP like the AK and Fiio units, both of which accept USB in and the AK accepts coax(?).

What is wrong with you? You assuming he meant "DAP" is merely your assumption. You're acting as if you're speaking for the guy and invalidating other people's suggestions.

And yes, I'm fully aware DAP's can function as a portable DAC/amp. That doesn't deny the fact that some standalone DAC/amps (like the Mojo, which is very clearly and obviously marketed for portable use) can be used in portable solutions.

"The mojo might be better for absolute quality but you're stuck having a source for it unless you're just looking something to bring around and use with different computers."

[fuzzybaffy]

Where are you quoting from? What does "stuck having a source for it" mean? You can connect the Mojo to smartphones and DAPs.

Do you even know what the Mojo is? http://www.head-fi.org/t/784602/chord-mojo-the-official-thread-read-the-first-post-for-updated-info It's a tiny little DAC/amp that a lot of people use in conjunction with their smartphones and DAPs.

[GL1TCH3D]

Where are you quoting from? What does "stuck having a source for it" mean? You can connect the Mojo to smartphones and DAPs.

Do you even know what the Mojo is? http://www.head-fi.org/t/784602/chord-mojo-the-official-thread-read-the-first-post-for-updated-info It's tiny.

I quoted myself from several posts up.

The way you're writing makes it seem like you're attacking me. I stated both sides and why I chose to suggest a DAP vs a portable DAC / amp.

Connecting to a smartphone isn't the same as having a standalone device.

Smartphones tend to be a lot more limited in storage. Battery life is shorter. If you're pocketing the smartphone + mojo in one pocket it's bulky.

[fuzzybaffy]

The way you're writing makes it seem like you're attacking me.

I'm sorry you see it that way, but the way I see it is you're hounding me about my suggestions for a standalone DAC/amp. You've been responding to me about my suggestions.

I stated both sides and why I chose to suggest a DAP vs a portable DAC / amp.

Connecting to a smartphone isn't the same as having a standalone device.

Smartphones tend to be a lot more limited in storage. Battery life is shorter. If you're pocketing the smartphone + mojo in one pocket it's bulky.

Ok... so whether you prefer a DAP over a DAP/smartphone + portable DAC/amp is completely a matter of subjective opinion. But I have no idea why you keep talking to me about it.

[GL1TCH3D]

The way you're writing makes it seem like you're attacking me.

I'm sorry you see it that way, but the way I see it is you're hounding me about my suggestions for a standalone DAC/amp. You've been responding to me about my suggestions.

I stated both sides and why I chose to suggest a DAP vs a portable DAC / amp.

Connecting to a smartphone isn't the same as having a standalone device.

Smartphones tend to be a lot more limited in storage. Battery life is shorter. If you're pocketing the smartphone + mojo in one pocket it's bulky.

Ok... so whether you prefer a DAP over a DAP/smartphone + portable DAC/amp is completely a matter of subjective opinion. But I have no idea why you keep talking to me about it.

Subjective opinion. Nice. Never knew opinions could be subjective.

And my first response was regarding your suggestion of the chord Hugo

[cmadrid]

I dunno, you did seem to get rather angry with Glitched for no reason bro

[Rayoui]

One of my friends believes in cable burn in
At a meet he brought his hd800 with new cables, I forgot the brand, and plugged it into the bryston amp from someone else and it sounded awful (bryston Amps are super bright). He blamed it on cable burn in since the cable was too new.

Certain USB cables if poorly made can have issues. Or sometimes there's something built into the USB cables like apple or astell and Kern (you can't use a non-AK USB cable with your device. I still don't know what happened to my stolen AK). I can believe a USB cable swap can do something but only from bad to good, not good to "better".

Whether cables make a difference is up to you, I heard nothing different with my Q Cable on the Audeze LCD2.

If cables make that much of a difference to me I'll buy a stax with the money I'd spend on cables
 

USB cables, although digital, are still cables and can pick up RF interference that will introduce noise into the circuit. Using a USB cable with ferrite beads would make an audible difference in that case.

I have a Moon Audio Black Dragon cable for my HD800. There is an audible difference in the sound, though it is small. If I could do it again, I probably would not purchase that particular cable and instead go with a decent quality (but less expensive) copper cable.

I also have a Moon Audio Silver Dragon cable for my HE-500 and I don't hear any audible difference in sound compared to the stock cable other than reduced microphonics from the cable itself.

[GL1TCH3D]

One of my friends believes in cable burn in
At a meet he brought his hd800 with new cables, I forgot the brand, and plugged it into the bryston amp from someone else and it sounded awful (bryston Amps are super bright). He blamed it on cable burn in since the cable was too new.

Certain USB cables if poorly made can have issues. Or sometimes there's something built into the USB cables like apple or astell and Kern (you can't use a non-AK USB cable with your device. I still don't know what happened to my stolen AK). I can believe a USB cable swap can do something but only from bad to good, not good to "better".

Whether cables make a difference is up to you, I heard nothing different with my Q Cable on the Audeze LCD2.

If cables make that much of a difference to me I'll buy a stax with the money I'd spend on cables
 

USB cables, although digital, are still cables and can pick up RF interference that will introduce noise into the circuit. Using a USB cable with ferrite beads would make an audible difference in that case.

I have a Moon Audio Black Dragon cable for my HD800. There is an audible difference in the sound, though it is small. If I could do it again, I probably would not purchase that particular cable and instead go with a decent quality (but less expensive) copper cable.

I also have a Moon Audio Silver Dragon cable for my HE-500 and I don't hear any audible difference in sound compared to the stock cable other than reduced microphonics from the cable itself.

I'd much rather change cable for comfort than the possibility of better sound quality. At the prices of some of these premium cables I could get much better headphones in the first place.
The Q cable was definitely more comfortable than the stock cables (*cough* keystone pipelines*cough*)

[Bevo]

One of my friends believes in cable burn in
At a meet he brought his hd800 with new cables, I forgot the brand, and plugged it into the bryston amp from someone else and it sounded awful (bryston Amps are super bright). He blamed it on cable burn in since the cable was too new.

Certain USB cables if poorly made can have issues. Or sometimes there's something built into the USB cables like apple or astell and Kern (you can't use a non-AK USB cable with your device. I still don't know what happened to my stolen AK). I can believe a USB cable swap can do something but only from bad to good, not good to "better".

Whether cables make a difference is up to you, I heard nothing different with my Q Cable on the Audeze LCD2.

If cables make that much of a difference to me I'll buy a stax with the money I'd spend on cables
 

USB cables, although digital, are still cables and can pick up RF interference that will introduce noise into the circuit. Using a USB cable with ferrite beads would make an audible difference in that case.

I have a Moon Audio Black Dragon cable for my HD800. There is an audible difference in the sound, though it is small. If I could do it again, I probably would not purchase that particular cable and instead go with a decent quality (but less expensive) copper cable.

I also have a Moon Audio Silver Dragon cable for my HE-500 and I don't hear any audible difference in sound compared to the stock cable other than reduced microphonics from the cable itself.

I'd much rather change cable for comfort than the possibility of better sound quality. At the prices of some of these premium cables I could get much better headphones in the first place.
The Q cable was definitely more comfortable than the stock cables (*cough* keystone pipelines*cough*)

I bought an aftermarket copper cable to reduce the treble peakiness on my HD800. Worked great.

[fuzzybaffy]

Subjective opinion. Nice. Never knew opinions could be subjective.

Yea... opinions are subjective. And you were acting like your opinions are more valid than mine.

[dan002]

Referring to headphone cables, anyone try a coiled headphone headphone cable?
I like how they remove extra cable slack.

[byker]

Referring to headphone cables, anyone try a coiled headphone headphone cable?
I like how they remove extra cable slack.

My beyers have a coiled cable. I dislike how heavy the cable is when it is coiled.

[mullidan]

M-Audio Q40 w/ Beyerdynamic EDT770VB earpad mod. A great set of cans for the price.

[ttzhou]

I believe in analog cable material differences (silver vs copper) as there's attenuation differences, but digital is digital, doesnt matter what its made out of. A bad cable is a bad cable, but with digital, as long as the data gets from point a to b...

I think it was Axel Grell who said that cable sound differences are due to the inherent impedance of the materials; different impedances lead to differing volume levels (minute but I suppose detectable if you strain) given a fixed voltage.

I would venture then that the differences due to cables would be eliminated in volume matched blind ABX tests. I'm sure tests have confirmed this to varying degrees.

That being said, absolutely nothing wrong in my opinion with buying cables for looks

[deductivemonkee]

Anyone here have any experience with the ath-m40x?

[bocahgundul]

Can someone reccomend a good headphone under 200$ i have tried grado sr80e and i dont really like i think because of the treble

[GL1TCH3D]

Can someone reccomend a good headphone under 200$ i have tried grado sr80e and i dont really like i think because of the treble

Well for whatever reason, you don't like them so don't force it.

I like the AKG K551 but the bass isn't that great on it and the treble is still sharp with crappy sources.

The audio technica m50x shouldn't be sharp or peaky in the treble (at least not as much as grado)

[bocahgundul]

Can someone reccomend a good headphone under 200$ i have tried grado sr80e and i dont really like i think because of the treble

Well for whatever reason, you don't like them so don't force it.

I like the AKG K551 but the bass isn't that great on it and the treble is still sharp with crappy sources.

The audio technica m50x shouldn't be sharp or peaky in the treble (at least not as much as grado)

somone said that the m50x are overrated that i should be off getting ath m40x

[davkol]

Or, y'know, senns are kinda dark.

[GL1TCH3D]

Or, y'know, senns are kinda dark.

The 650 especially. The HD700/800 are not dark at all though.

[Binge]

Can someone reccomend a good headphone under 200$ i have tried grado sr80e and i dont really like i think because of the treble

Well for whatever reason, you don't like them so don't force it.

I like the AKG K551 but the bass isn't that great on it and the treble is still sharp with crappy sources.

The audio technica m50x shouldn't be sharp or peaky in the treble (at least not as much as grado)

somone said that the m50x are overrated that i should be off getting ath m40x

http://www.amazon.com/NVX-Over-Ear-Headphones-ComfortMax-Cushions/dp/B0093PVTPS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1448380441&sr=8-1&keywords=nvx+xpt100

or these ^  they're amazing cans for sub $200

[byker]

I need headphone therapy.  With HE400I on sale for $299 this week, and noble having a 20% sale this friday, I am having a hard time keeping my wallet whole.

[GL1TCH3D]

I need headphone therapy.  With HE400I on sale for $299 this week, and noble having a 20% sale this friday, I am having a hard time keeping my wallet whole.

You can always give me all your money and not have to worry about spending it on headphones

[Steezus]

I need headphone therapy.  With HE400I on sale for $299 this week, and noble having a 20% sale this friday, I am having a hard time keeping my wallet whole.

First time finding out about this, I'm going to have to sell a kidney at the rate of how much I'm spending.

[byker]

I need headphone therapy.  With HE400I on sale for $299 this week, and noble having a 20% sale this friday, I am having a hard time keeping my wallet whole.

You can always give me all your money and not have to worry about spending it on headphones

Then my wallet won't be whole AND I won't have nice headphones.