Headphone Thread.

[Atakp]

I miss my d2k...of all the cans I've had I think I regret selling those the most

[Grim Fandango]

Sennheiser HD 518. I use if with a soundcard and one of those Zalman clip on mics. Pretty happy with it . I bought it during a sale last Christmas for only 60 bucks. Amazing value.

[GeorgeStorm]

Still got my DT770 250ohms which I use on a daily basis connected to a Fiio E7/E9 combo.
Also have a pair of AKG Q701 Green Quincy Jones, however I find the headband too uncomfortable for me to actually use them for more than a couple of minutes (I tend to find all headbands painful after a while but the AKGs are far worse than my Beyers)

[Rare]

I've had these for over 2 years now. These are truly great headphones. Sound quality is great, and they're VERY comfortable. I've worn them for 14+ hours straight and I have had no pain on my ears once.



They're Sennheiser HD 448's.

[ComradeSniper]

Could $100 or less get me a good quality amp? Any recommendations for amps in that price range?

[Atakp]

Could $100 or less get me a good quality amp? Any recommendations for amps in that price range?

I could recommend the schiit Magni. Its the only one in that price range I've personally heard. It's $99 and pretty amazing for the money in my opinion

[bavman]

Could $100 or less get me a good quality amp? Any recommendations for amps in that price range?

If you like DIY or want something with a battery, the O2 amp can be built for about $45 + $25 for a case

[ComradeSniper]

Could $100 or less get me a good quality amp? Any recommendations for amps in that price range?

If you like DIY or want something with a battery, the O2 amp can be built for about $45 + $25 for a case

I haven't really done any DIY stuff, but that O2 sure does look interesting.

[csloan1218]

I'm using a pair of turtle beach x12's, I found them to be really decent but after a few hours they start to hurt.

Don't know if its the headphones, or my freakishly big ears. </fry>

[Rare]

I'm using a pair of turtle beach x12's, I found them to be really decent but after a few hours they start to hurt.

Don't know if its the headphones, or my freakishly big ears. </fry>

This seems to be the problem for a lot of people. When I used to play xbox and use my brothers turtle beaches my ears would hurt. But with my sennhesiers my ears go as if they were untouched.

[davkol]

I've had these for over 2 years now. These are truly great headphones. Sound quality is great, and they're VERY comfortable. I've worn them for 14+ hours straight and I have had no pain on my ears once.

Show Image

They're Sennheiser HD 448's.

I know, right? My only complaint was build quality. That's why I actually sold them.

Now I need to find some nice cables to use with HD202.

[arplod]

I'm sure this has probably been asked before, but are there any full coverage (over the ear) units recommended for people who wear glasses?  I have probably six sets of headphones around the house, low- to mid-range, and haven't found a set yet that don't compress my ears against my glasses pretty painfully.  Any brands noted for really soft padding, or perhaps memory foam/gel padding that conforms well for sound quality?

I wear glasses with thick frames, and I found Beyerdynamic's dt 770/880/990 + t70 to be the most comfortable while wearing my glasses. Im sure the k701/702/q701 would be fairly comfortable too, since the pads are very similiar. In general, velour pads are the way to go for people with glasses. I have the beyerdynamic clear gel pads and they weren't as comfortable as the velour on the dt series or the t70.

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll see if I can give these a listen!  Do they require an external headphone amp, or can they be driven by an internal PC sound card?

Jeez, try it first. Then you'll know. Unless your onboard is a) old or b) really sucks or c) a Mac (which is the same as b, some might be shocked to learn) many contemporary onboards can drive phones perfectly well and with half decent quality - at least of a level of quality that makes <$100 toy Dacs at best a waste of money.

[noisyturtle]

I am inclined to agree (despite popular opinion of audiophile circlejerks) that 80% of the time a DAC for a computer setup is a waste of money. The returns you would see in sound improvement are miniscule, probably just above buying $900 audio cables. Most PCs already have a DAC built into the on board sound or sound card and do their jobs perfectly well. Invest your money in higher ended headphones and a better amp.

[Atakp]

If you are just watching movies, gaming, youtube, or mp3's then I would agree to skip the DAC...even though I do run a DAC on my computer setup. I bypass windows sound, use a sound card as just a digital transport and let the DAC handle the conversion, but then we get into bit rates and sample rates and it gets overly complicated.

So I would say just plug the headphones into the soundcard, if they sound good...great. If the volume is lacking then start looking into amping options. Keeping it simple is better a lot of the time.

[PointyFox]

All anyone really needs is a soundcard and a Sennheiser HD600.

[ComradeSniper]

I'm using a pair of turtle beach x12's, I found them to be really decent but after a few hours they start to hurt.

Don't know if its the headphones, or my freakishly big ears. </fry>

This seems to be the problem for a lot of people. When I used to play xbox and use my brothers turtle beaches my ears would hurt. But with my sennhesiers my ears go as if they were untouched.

I have some X12s and though they don't sound very nice, they feel just fine to me.

[csloan1218]

Man, I'm glad I don't have a frame of reference. I think my x12's sound great.

You ppl are going to run me into bankruptcy.

[rknize]

Those are some strong statements.  While the internal PA can drive my headphones, doing so drives me nuts.

In the past, on-board sound chips were bare bones and were stuck where ever there was room on the motherboard.  HF noise gets coupled to the analog outputs.  You may not hear it in a low impedance load like a headphone, but it becomes more apparent when plugged into an amplifier.  My old Dell workstation at work is absolutely horrible and most laptops I have used are even worse.  I can hear the mouse move on all of my laptops!

I have met far more horrible built-in sound solutions than not.  Sound cards tend to be a lot better, but they still will couple noise simply because the EMI environment of a PC case is that bad.  If I crank-up my desktop speakers to 1/2 or more (plugged into my sound card) I can "hear" one of my 3 HDs popping and large updates to the UI make squeaking noises.

In an office with CPU fans and whatnot and reasonable speaker volume levels, it isn't really a problem.  For headphones, I prefer the black background of a decent DAC.

[arplod]

Those are some strong statements.  While the internal PA can drive my headphones, doing so drives me nuts.

In the past, on-board sound chips were bare bones and were stuck where ever there was room on the motherboard.  HF noise gets coupled to the analog outputs.  You may not hear it in a low impedance load like a headphone, but it becomes more apparent when plugged into an amplifier.  My old Dell workstation at work is absolutely horrible and most laptops I have used are even worse.  I can hear the mouse move on all of my laptops!

I have met far more horrible built-in sound solutions than not.  Sound cards tend to be a lot better, but they still will couple noise simply because the EMI environment of a PC case is that bad.  If I crank-up my desktop speakers to 1/2 or more (plugged into my sound card) I can "hear" one of my 3 HDs popping and large updates to the UI make squeaking noises.

In an office with CPU fans and whatnot and reasonable speaker volume levels, it isn't really a problem.  For headphones, I prefer the black background of a decent DAC.

The real problem is that you don't know if a particular combo is good or not. Indeed, even some much-hyped add-ons (like the Essence STX) can suffer pretty badly from EM noise leakage in certain slot configurations.

At the same time though, it's pointless generalising 'all onboards suck, buy a DAC' because onboards have improved quite a lot as of late in general thanks to various Microsoft edicts for compatibility.

Some are bad. My 2010/2012 Mac Pro's, if I choose to use a headphone to listen to them thru the front panel socket, are unlistenable - there's just too much EM leakage. Same goes for recent Air's and Macbook Pro's to a lesser degree, but still enough to warrant a DAC. But the vast majority of Windows desktops and laptops (including a couple of MSI and Asus-boarded DIY's, and I'll qualify here that I don't keep laptops beyond about a year, nor desktops beyond 2 years - except in the case of the it's-still-2009-layout antique like the Mac Pro), I'm pretty happy to jam a headphone into and listen, unless I'm doing a bout of critical listening or monitoring.

Which is why I said listen first. His might suck, it might not.

[pby]

The real problem is that you don't know if a particular combo is good or not. Indeed, even some much-hyped add-ons (like the Essence STX) can suffer pretty badly from EM noise leakage in certain slot configurations.

At the same time though, it's pointless generalising 'all onboards suck, buy a DAC' because onboards have improved quite a lot as of late in general thanks to various Microsoft edicts for compatibility.

A properly designed DAC and amp will work great with any setup. Typically if you do DAC+amps combo they'll be external which eliminates the EMI problems you mentioned.

The quality of onboard sound has little to do with microsoft and compatibility. You don't tend to find quality onboard audio because most manufacturers are more interested in packing more quantity of features than quality of. Asus is very capable in producing decent soundcards but it is pretty apparent they don't even bother trying when it comes to onboard audio. That is why don't see them quoting any of their onboard's SNR, frequency response, output impedance etc but go on for days about supporting 192kHz audio (does anybody actually listen to high sampling rate audio?).

I'm not going to say onboard audio sucks but they are inferior to any well engineered sound interface. If the listener doesn't care or appreciates the difference then onboard is probably good enough. Having said that, DAC/amp is rarely a bad investment, you can use it for your next computer/laptops and always get a great sound.

[rknize]

Which is why I said listen first. His might suck, it might not.

That's good advice.  I carried the same SB Live/Audigy Platinum setups through many PCs for many years.  It's front panel is surprisingly quiet.  However, the PCI slot is going extinct and I had to ditch it on my Windoze rig thanks to a complete lack of driver support in 7.  My main rigs at home and at work run Linux, so I can still use it there so long as the PCI slot survives.

If you do a lot of headphone listening, that uncertainty is actually a reason to consider a DAC/amp combo (especially one with a USB input).  I didn't spend a ton on mine, but I can keep using it even as the PCs behind it change.  As you point out, there is no way to know how quiet the on-board audio will be.  With a DAC, you don't have to factor it in to your MB choice.

But yes, it's kind of a luxury item for the somewhat anal.  Back in the "Walkman" days, I used to carry a small screw driver around with it to tweak the tape head alignment.  The HF roll-off drove me nuts.  I can't really handle 128kbps MP3s or BlueTooth headphones, either (the A2DP SBC codec sounds awful).

[arplod]

The real problem is that you don't know if a particular combo is good or not. Indeed, even some much-hyped add-ons (like the Essence STX) can suffer pretty badly from EM noise leakage in certain slot configurations.

At the same time though, it's pointless generalising 'all onboards suck, buy a DAC' because onboards have improved quite a lot as of late in general thanks to various Microsoft edicts for compatibility.

A properly designed DAC and amp will work great with any setup. Typically if you do DAC+amps combo they'll be external which eliminates the EMI problems you mentioned.

The quality of onboard sound has little to do with microsoft and compatibility.

I should have mentioned Intel in there as well - but they have minimums for audio quality, which have been ratcheted up over the years.

You don't tend to find quality onboard audio because most manufacturers are more interested in packing more quantity of features than quality of. Asus is very capable in producing decent soundcards but it is pretty apparent they don't even bother trying when it comes to onboard audio. That is why don't see them quoting any of their onboard's SNR, frequency response, output impedance etc but go on for days about supporting 192kHz audio (does anybody actually listen to high sampling rate audio?).

I'm not going to say onboard audio sucks but they are inferior to any well engineered sound interface. If the listener doesn't care or appreciates the difference then onboard is probably good enough. Having said that, DAC/amp is rarely a bad investment, you can use it for your next computer/laptops and always get a great sound.

Sure, for a couple of hundred plus. As I said if you happen to get a decent onboard, it may not be a major boost over a $100-class DAC, if at all. I personally prefer to skip the toys for the Head-Fi crowd and just get straight to the actual high-end and pro audio when going discrete. But what I said about onboard still stands nevertheless in my experience.

[PointyFox]

Those are some strong statements.  While the internal PA can drive my headphones, doing so drives me nuts.

In the past, on-board sound chips were bare bones and were stuck where ever there was room on the motherboard.  HF noise gets coupled to the analog outputs.  You may not hear it in a low impedance load like a headphone, but it becomes more apparent when plugged into an amplifier.  My old Dell workstation at work is absolutely horrible and most laptops I have used are even worse.  I can hear the mouse move on all of my laptops!

I have met far more horrible built-in sound solutions than not.  Sound cards tend to be a lot better, but they still will couple noise simply because the EMI environment of a PC case is that bad.  If I crank-up my desktop speakers to 1/2 or more (plugged into my sound card) I can "hear" one of my 3 HDs popping and large updates to the UI make squeaking noises.

In an office with CPU fans and whatnot and reasonable speaker volume levels, it isn't really a problem.  For headphones, I prefer the black background of a decent DAC.

I had that on many soundcards.  Two that I couldn't hear any interference on were Sound Blaster Live! Value, and Asus Xonar Essence STX.

[Rare]

I've had these for over 2 years now. These are truly great headphones. Sound quality is great, and they're VERY comfortable. I've worn them for 14+ hours straight and I have had no pain on my ears once.

Show Image

They're Sennheiser HD 448's.

I know, right? My only complaint was build quality. That's why I actually sold them.

Now I need to find some nice cables to use with HD202.

Yeah, the build isn't exactly the best, but otherwise they're great. How are the HD202's?

[TranscendingLogic]

What tracks do you guys listen to when evaluating a new pair of headphones or other setup? And what specifically do you listen for?

[Rare]

I listen to a lot of hip hop. Mostly new stuff because it's kinda bass heavy. I listen for tones, an overall clear sound, and bass I can feel. Though with monitors that may not be the easiest to get, it's possible. What headphones did you get/plan on getting?

[pby]

The real problem is that you don't know if a particular combo is good or not. Indeed, even some much-hyped add-ons (like the Essence STX) can suffer pretty badly from EM noise leakage in certain slot configurations.

At the same time though, it's pointless generalising 'all onboards suck, buy a DAC' because onboards have improved quite a lot as of late in general thanks to various Microsoft edicts for compatibility.

A properly designed DAC and amp will work great with any setup. Typically if you do DAC+amps combo they'll be external which eliminates the EMI problems you mentioned.

The quality of onboard sound has little to do with microsoft and compatibility.

I should have mentioned Intel in there as well - but they have minimums for audio quality, which have been ratcheted up over the years.

You don't tend to find quality onboard audio because most manufacturers are more interested in packing more quantity of features than quality of. Asus is very capable in producing decent soundcards but it is pretty apparent they don't even bother trying when it comes to onboard audio. That is why don't see them quoting any of their onboard's SNR, frequency response, output impedance etc but go on for days about supporting 192kHz audio (does anybody actually listen to high sampling rate audio?).

I'm not going to say onboard audio sucks but they are inferior to any well engineered sound interface. If the listener doesn't care or appreciates the difference then onboard is probably good enough. Having said that, DAC/amp is rarely a bad investment, you can use it for your next computer/laptops and always get a great sound.

Sure, for a couple of hundred plus. As I said if you happen to get a decent onboard, it may not be a major boost over a $100-class DAC, if at all. I personally prefer to skip the toys for the Head-Fi crowd and just get straight to the actual high-end and pro audio when going discrete. But what I said about onboard still stands nevertheless in my experience.

If you're referring to the Intel HDA specs then the minimum specs is really for the interfacing of the devices rather than the audio quality. Intel has some guidelines on circuit designs so you know you won't get clicks and pops but don't expect them to measure well.

High end hifi stuff is one thing but pro-audio is another. Pro audio equipment usually require balance audio and as a result they typically have a lower SNR. Also they are usually designed to drive studio headphones which are 250~600ohms and their output impedance is quite high (typically around 30-50ohms) and way too high to drive normal headphones properly.

Yes if you're looking for a decent DAC/amp then it will cost you a little. There are a few sub $100 DACs worth looking at but it is pretty much a mine field as there are quite alot of poorly engineered crap out there (NuForce comes to mind).

[sth]

I listen to a lot of hip hop. Mostly new stuff because it's kinda bass heavy. I listen for tones, an overall clear sound, and bass I can feel. Though with monitors that may not be the easiest to get, it's possible. What headphones did you get/plan on getting?

havent had the chance to try them but i've heard that sennheiser hd25-II is where its at for hip hop. someday i'll snag a pair...

[bavman]

These are great too:
http://www.amazon.com/JVC-Head-band-Portable-Headphones-HA-S500-B/dp/B008FWB9TQ/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1365643528&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=jvc+ha-s500

I own a pair and they have some decent bass for their price while still keeping a good sound signature. I've never heard the hd25's but people say that these are almost as good for a 1/4 of the price. You can also use velour pads from hd25s and it brings out the mids some more.

[TranscendingLogic]

I listen to a lot of hip hop. Mostly new stuff because it's kinda bass heavy. I listen for tones, an overall clear sound, and bass I can feel. Though with monitors that may not be the easiest to get, it's possible. What headphones did you get/plan on getting?

I don't have anything in mind yet. I just wanted to make sure I find some affordable options with a good clean, accurate sound. I listen to a lot of acoustic instrumental guitar and I can't stand artificially pumped up bass or the muddy sound that some headphones produce. I'm currently listening with Shure SE-215 earbuds.

[thegunner100]

What tracks do you guys listen to when evaluating a new pair of headphones or other setup? And what specifically do you listen for?

I usually just listen to the stuff that I like listening to the most. If you're familiar with a song, then you'll be able to hear the difference between headphones, amps, and dacs. Orchestral music usually works well.

[Jocelyn]

What tracks do you guys listen to when evaluating a new pair of headphones or other setup? And what specifically do you listen for?

I usually just listen to the stuff that I like listening to the most. If you're familiar with a song, then you'll be able to hear the difference between headphones, amps, and dacs. Orchestral music usually works well.

This, this, and this.

[davkol]

How are the HD202's?

They're *sturdy*. Well, except the cable. I don't really care about sound quality when listening on the bus, so yeah... it's fine for that, maybe a bit too dark.

[Rare]

I listen to a lot of hip hop. Mostly new stuff because it's kinda bass heavy. I listen for tones, an overall clear sound, and bass I can feel. Though with monitors that may not be the easiest to get, it's possible. What headphones did you get/plan on getting?

havent had the chance to try them but i've heard that sennheiser hd25-II is where its at for hip hop. someday i'll snag a pair...

I'll look into those! I have my heart set on some ATH m50's though.

[purple_haze]

i have me some sennheiser hd-555s and love them.  I just got a pair of klipsch reference one on ear headphones and they are decent for iphone use.

[PointyFox]

I listen to a lot of hip hop. Mostly new stuff because it's kinda bass heavy. I listen for tones, an overall clear sound, and bass I can feel. Though with monitors that may not be the easiest to get, it's possible. What headphones did you get/plan on getting?

havent had the chance to try them but i've heard that sennheiser hd25-II is where its at for hip hop. someday i'll snag a pair...

I'll look into those! I have my heart set on some ATH m50's though.

ATH-m50 is crap compared to the HD600.  They're decent for closed-back headphones though, if you need them to be closed.

[ricercar]

FWIW The DIY cost for the O2 is closer to $32, not $45. I put together an O2 amp for $32 including PCB from JDSLabs.com. I just plugged in NwAvGuy's BOM into Mouser and reassigned two part numbers that changed.

[arplod]

The real problem is that you don't know if a particular combo is good or not. Indeed, even some much-hyped add-ons (like the Essence STX) can suffer pretty badly from EM noise leakage in certain slot configurations.

At the same time though, it's pointless generalising 'all onboards suck, buy a DAC' because onboards have improved quite a lot as of late in general thanks to various Microsoft edicts for compatibility.

A properly designed DAC and amp will work great with any setup. Typically if you do DAC+amps combo they'll be external which eliminates the EMI problems you mentioned.

The quality of onboard sound has little to do with microsoft and compatibility.

I should have mentioned Intel in there as well - but they have minimums for audio quality, which have been ratcheted up over the years.

You don't tend to find quality onboard audio because most manufacturers are more interested in packing more quantity of features than quality of. Asus is very capable in producing decent soundcards but it is pretty apparent they don't even bother trying when it comes to onboard audio. That is why don't see them quoting any of their onboard's SNR, frequency response, output impedance etc but go on for days about supporting 192kHz audio (does anybody actually listen to high sampling rate audio?).

I'm not going to say onboard audio sucks but they are inferior to any well engineered sound interface. If the listener doesn't care or appreciates the difference then onboard is probably good enough. Having said that, DAC/amp is rarely a bad investment, you can use it for your next computer/laptops and always get a great sound.

Sure, for a couple of hundred plus. As I said if you happen to get a decent onboard, it may not be a major boost over a $100-class DAC, if at all. I personally prefer to skip the toys for the Head-Fi crowd and just get straight to the actual high-end and pro audio when going discrete. But what I said about onboard still stands nevertheless in my experience.

If you're referring to the Intel HDA specs then the minimum specs is really for the interfacing of the devices rather than the audio quality. Intel has some guidelines on circuit designs so you know you won't get clicks and pops but don't expect them to measure well.

High end hifi stuff is one thing but pro-audio is another. Pro audio equipment usually require balance audio and as a result they typically have a lower SNR. Also they are usually designed to drive studio headphones which are 250~600ohms and their output impedance is quite high (typically around 30-50ohms) and way too high to drive normal headphones properly.

This is kind of Head-Fi rote nonsense. Sure low-impedance phones work OK on a lot of studio gear. It's not all DT250-250's and HD600's out there IRL you know, jeez.

[TheProfosist]

Just stumbled accross a pair of TMA-1's and HAD to pick them up! Now I cant wait for the revision of the studio version thats going to be out really soon.

[Permeability]

Can anyone explain to me why some headphones need an amplifier? Just starting to look at headphones and i'm lost 

[thegunner100]

This is kind of Head-Fi rote nonsense. Sure low-impedance phones work OK on a lot of studio gear. It's not all DT250-250's and HD600's out there IRL you know, jeez.

We all know that every studio uses Beats by Dr. Dre™

[Atakp]

Can anyone explain to me why some headphones need an amplifier? Just starting to look at headphones and i'm lost 

Headphones come in different impedance. When you look at headphone specs the impedance will be measured in ohms. Impedance is the resistance to an electrical load

High impedance headphones need an amp to boost the voltage which will increase the volume, meaning high impedance headphones without enough voltage won't be loud enough.

Most low impedance headphones can be driven straight off a portable player, but there's a catch.

Some low impedance headphones need an amp to increase the electrical current to the headphone drivers to run them at optimal performance, so without an amp although they will be loud enough, they won't sound very good.

[PointyFox]

This is kind of Head-Fi rote nonsense. Sure low-impedance phones work OK on a lot of studio gear. It's not all DT250-250's and HD600's out there IRL you know, jeez.

Lies.

[Mountain Dew]

So could you guys recommend some good Jack of all trades type of headphones? I literally listen to pretty much all genres of music. I was looking at the MDR-V6s. Money isn't really a big deal as I won't be getting these until I get a job, which hopefully will be within the next few months.

[thegunner100]

So could you guys recommend some good Jack of all trades type of headphones? I literally listen to pretty much all genres of music. I was looking at the MDR-V6s. Money isn't really a big deal as I won't be getting these until I get a job, which hopefully will be within the next few months.

Do you want open or closed headphones? If money is no issue... grab yourself a stax sr-009! Realistically though, what would your budget be?

[Mountain Dew]

Probably equal to or less than 300 dollars. I'd prefer closed back however I don't really use headphones outside of my home so it doesn't really matter.

[thegunner100]

Probably equal to or less than 300 dollars. I'd prefer closed back however I don't really use headphones outside of my home so it doesn't really matter.

For all-round headphones, consider these but you'll want a headphone amp for them. A DAC would help too, but the amp is more important.

Open: dt880 600ohm, hd600, q701/k701/k702
Closed: dt770 80ohm or 600 ohm (the 80ohm is the bassier version)

[Mountain Dew]

Thanks, if I were to get an amp, what would be a good one to get?

[thegunner100]

Thanks, if I were to get an amp, what would be a good one to get?

For high impedance such as the 600ohm beyers or the hd600, a OTL tube amp would work the best. I would suggest getting a little dot MK III to start with, and get a pair of m8161 tubes to use them with. Or you could get the mk II as well, it's a little bit cheaper.

The Schiit magni($99) or O2 amp would be good choices too.

[pby]

The real problem is that you don't know if a particular combo is good or not. Indeed, even some much-hyped add-ons (like the Essence STX) can suffer pretty badly from EM noise leakage in certain slot configurations.

At the same time though, it's pointless generalising 'all onboards suck, buy a DAC' because onboards have improved quite a lot as of late in general thanks to various Microsoft edicts for compatibility.

A properly designed DAC and amp will work great with any setup. Typically if you do DAC+amps combo they'll be external which eliminates the EMI problems you mentioned.

The quality of onboard sound has little to do with microsoft and compatibility.

I should have mentioned Intel in there as well - but they have minimums for audio quality, which have been ratcheted up over the years.

You don't tend to find quality onboard audio because most manufacturers are more interested in packing more quantity of features than quality of. Asus is very capable in producing decent soundcards but it is pretty apparent they don't even bother trying when it comes to onboard audio. That is why don't see them quoting any of their onboard's SNR, frequency response, output impedance etc but go on for days about supporting 192kHz audio (does anybody actually listen to high sampling rate audio?).

I'm not going to say onboard audio sucks but they are inferior to any well engineered sound interface. If the listener doesn't care or appreciates the difference then onboard is probably good enough. Having said that, DAC/amp is rarely a bad investment, you can use it for your next computer/laptops and always get a great sound.

Sure, for a couple of hundred plus. As I said if you happen to get a decent onboard, it may not be a major boost over a $100-class DAC, if at all. I personally prefer to skip the toys for the Head-Fi crowd and just get straight to the actual high-end and pro audio when going discrete. But what I said about onboard still stands nevertheless in my experience.

If you're referring to the Intel HDA specs then the minimum specs is really for the interfacing of the devices rather than the audio quality. Intel has some guidelines on circuit designs so you know you won't get clicks and pops but don't expect them to measure well.

High end hifi stuff is one thing but pro-audio is another. Pro audio equipment usually require balance audio and as a result they typically have a lower SNR. Also they are usually designed to drive studio headphones which are 250~600ohms and their output impedance is quite high (typically around 30-50ohms) and way too high to drive normal headphones properly.

This is kind of Head-Fi rote nonsense. Sure low-impedance phones work OK on a lot of studio gear. It's not all DT250-250's and HD600's out there IRL you know, jeez.

I don't know if you're trolling or not but if you're using low impedance loads like in ears (8 ohms) and your output impedance is 50ohms then you're looking at a damping factor of 0.16. There is absolutely no chance you'll get the intended frequency response of the interface, if you're looking at regular headphones 32 ohms you're still looking at a damping factor which is less than one. A high damping factor is essential for a flat frequency response. This isn't Head-Fi nonsense, damping factors and impedance matching was taught to me when I was doing my undergrad in EE.

If you think it works "ok" then whatever. I guess your definition of "ok" just means it produces sound and no regard for high fidelity.