TX84: Half plate alps TKL

[Delirious]

Back Story:

Back in late 2016 I bought a B-stock TX84 from kin with the intention of making my first Alps TKL. The first iteration had SKCM undampened creams in a Steel plate. And it was very different from the Creams that I came to love from the NEXT board. I quickly swapped out Undampened Creams for SKCL Greens and every thing immediately felt right. However the switches were too light and I just put it away after a couple days of use.

Fast forward a few months later, sprit started selling springs for alps. He didnt really have a good reputation at all but I figured why not, at most I would lose out about $40. So the new springs came in, I immediately fashioned my TX84 with the 85g springs. The switches became heavier to my liking, but they were still suffering from the same short travel distance. As more time goes by I start to experience with different plate materials for alps and at this point I basically have at least one board for each SKCM variant out there to my liking. I also have more refined taste of mx linears.

Taking a look back at my collection this early January, 2 things stood out for me:
A. I have yet to secure the rarer versions of SKCL(creams, browns, striped ambers, and ambers)
B. I dont even like SKCL's because of the shorter travel distance

At this point I know I have to approach SKCL's with all new different perspectives.



The Inspirations:


Above is Winkeyless 60% pcb with Gon's 2mm thicc plate: This was a meme build that I did just for fun. I immediately hate box blacks because they are boring. They are smooth, no wobble, but in returns they have no ramp ups whatsoever. They are just that: linear movements of straight up and down. After building this I kinda realize why I dont like SKCL's because SKCL's suffer from the same boring-ness, on top of shorter travel distant which make them even worse.

Below is LZ-CLS with POM half-plate. Plastic and half plate give a lot of yield, the switches bottom out with a little cushion.

Ultimately the 60% represents all the problems about why I dont like SKCL's and the TKL represents the fixes that I will apply for rebuilding the TX84 with SKCL greens.

[Delirious]

Force Curve

In order to make sure I am not crazy I compared the internals of all 3 switches: SKCL green, Box Black, and Vintage Black. Side by side, you could see the evolution of springs' diameters. Initially I thought this might be the reason for boring linear in SKCL switches in general.



To make sure I am on the right track, I decided to visit Haata's force curve website for some more hard datas.


I drew lines to complete the triangles on the force curve. The horizontal lines represent the travel distance, the vertical lines represent the change in force ramp-up.




Normalzing all 3 lines while disregard the weights, you can immediately tell that SKCL greens travel the shortest distance and have the least ramp-up, hence it is so boring. I guess the short travel distance is a double-edge sword, for the tactile and clicky versions they are great, but for linears they are not in my taste. Box blacks also bottoms out faster and have less ramp-up comparing to vintage blacks. Using vint blacks as the gold standard for linears for me, I could now clearly see the reasons why I do not like SKCL's in general. I could swap out for heavier springs, but that would just shift the curve upward, the small ramp-up and short travel distance will still remain.

[Delirious]

Build Log

I replace the leeku's pcb with The Leaf pcb, big thanks to Shadohhh and Mike for putting up with my shenanigans, kept building then desoldering then trading pcb's. The Leaf pcb and the Time pcb are virtually the same, except the Leaf pcb has the extra slot for Alps stepped capslock, so I dont have to drill the pcb like I did with the Time.



Evolution of the plate: Stainless Steel -> Acrylic -> POM



Evolution of the flex: No switches -> 6 switches -> switches and scissors. I was trying to find the most consistent weights that can grab hold onto the flexy plates.




Drilling the LED holes:
- 3/64'' drill bit
- instead of a dremel, I like to use the bigger hand drill. The hand drill just anchors on the table and I could feed the housings to the drill, that way it is more consistent. You only have to work with one hand really, less slip and slide.





Lube:
-Super lube for the springs to take care of the pings mostly. First gen SKCL's are notoriously pingy
-PFTE powder for the stems with IP as the applying medium
-Pictures show 5s, 30s, then 5min for powder drying






I go over the bottoms with a brush to get rid of excessive powder.





Prepping the capslock:
A little more drilling to widen up the holes. Same 3/64'' bit





Soldering the alphas:
-The little comb to line up the switches HORIZONTALLY. 3mm is the maximum thickness for the comb.
-The LEDs to line up the switches VERTICALLY
-Solder 3 columns at a time.






The Plate:
-Plate is 1.5mm which is a bit thicker than the standard 1.2mm for alps
-Toothpick trick to keep the stab hooks in place because of the 1.5mm thickness problem. Something I picked up from building cherry boards with clip-in stabilizers; and I think those are still the best pcb-mount stabilizers out there. You dont have to worry about shorting or the screws hitting the bottom case.
-Plate support to make sure the plate doesnt slide off the switches, a common problem with plastic plate for both alps and mx

[Delirious]

Alignment check



The case:






Final thoughts and shoutouts:
The build log tooks about 10 hours for this revision. And the result is something that I am very happy with. The board feels amazing now, as a matter of fact I am using it to do this whole write up. The  plastic half-plate adds a tiny bit of flex which drags out the bottomings, sort of like a delay effect while the switches still retain the characteristic of SKCL's in general. I was trying to replicate the mx feels but in the end I got something unique by itself and I am happy about it.

Last but not least, thank you to all these people that make it happen:
- Shadohhh: None of this could have happened without your helps. We already built your LZ-GHv2 twice and when I asked you for the pcb, you gave it to me without any hesitation. I promise we will build your LZ-GH again, soon, and that will be the last time.
-Mike52787: For generously offer his Time PCB to me, also suggested me to use LED's as the extra pins to do half-plate alps build.
-Keebs from Homerow Co.: the most committed keyboard collector out there, one day we were talking about powder lube and you immediately bought 3 different types powder to test them out. IPA + powder is the best.
-E3E: Meticulous in your knowledge of alps, all the back and forth discussions.
-senter: My favorite gb runner for sure, it all started when I pm'ed you asking for the plate file of the Fox Orange TKL because I want to build my board in alps instead of mx. All the subsequent gb's you slowly implement bits by bits to cater the alps crowd.

[nevin]

Very nice write up. lots of great info. thank you!

i prefer pcb mounted switches over plate mounted but have never seen it done so well with alps. kudos. love all the tricks you used in your build (the comb, the half plate & spacers, etc...) all very smart, excellent ideas.

would love to pick your brain on the lube vs. pinging sound.

have you tried skcc? what are your thoughts on them?

[Delirious]

Very nice write up. lots of great info. thank you!

i prefer pcb mounted switches over plate mounted but have never seen it done so well with alps. kudos. love all the tricks you used in your build (the comb, the half plate & spacers, etc...) all very smart, excellent ideas.

would love to pick your brain on the lube vs. pinging sound.

have you tried skcc? what are your thoughts on them?

The springs reverberate inside the housings once you bottom out. This is more noticeable on vintage boards because most if not all of them have steel plates which act like an echo chamber. Not just limited to alps, cherry switches sometimes also have the same problem. But in cherry, the sounds are crunchier. So the lube acts as a dampening coat, deafen the vibrations inside the switches.

It’s the same as floss modding for buckling springs but the springs are too small so it is more effective using oil. You want to use the thin oil to avoid making the switches mushy. After all the oil is there to dampen the vibrations and get rid of the pings, not to smooth out the switches so you don’t need thick solution

I had one of the Chinese legends pingmaster before. They are cool but skcc’s have the same problem of shorter travel distance like skcl. I guess it all depends on how do you like your linears: cushiony, springy, short, long, stiff, or even overlube mushy

[LightningXI]

Amazing build log, it'd be a fantastic experience to type on something you dedicated so much time and effort. Great job documenting all of this!

I'd like to know more about your method of PTFE and isopropyl alcohol. How do you do it step by step? Did you sonicate or clean your switches beforehand? Is it just the slider and the bottom that gets the PTFE/IPA? What is the dilution ratio for powder to alcohol? Did you use a brush to apply, or in the case of the sliders, did you just put them in a bag or container and shook them so it'd stick everywhere? I have a few packs of PTFE that I can use, but the methodology still escapes me.

ALPS are still a switch I'd like to understand better.

[Delirious]

Amazing build log, it'd be a fantastic experience to type on something you dedicated so much time and effort. Great job documenting all of this!

I'd like to know more about your method of PTFE and isopropyl alcohol. How do you do it step by step? Did you sonicate or clean your switches beforehand? Is it just the slider and the bottom that gets the PTFE/IPA? What is the dilution ratio for powder to alcohol? Did you use a brush to apply, or in the case of the sliders, did you just put them in a bag or container and shook them so it'd stick everywhere? I have a few packs of PTFE that I can use, but the methodology still escapes me.

ALPS are still a switch I'd like to understand better.

Thank you.

The powder is crumbly in general, it doesnt attach to itself but to different material, this is the best thing about powder lube, it makes powder the most consistent lube out there. You can apply the powder directly onto the stems but it's easier to use some sort of liquid as the medium for applying due to stronger adhesion force and surface tension. IPA is the ideal choice of liquid because it is readily available everywhere and dries up quickly.

Here is my method:
1. Ultra sonic the stems and housing
2. Mix ptfe and IPA in a container, I start with about 1/3 of a teaspoon of PTFE, then add about 8-10 times the amount IPA. The solution should be somewhat milky.
3. Submerge the stems in the solution, the powder doesnt attach to itself, so it is okay to overlube, you can always come back at a later stage to get rid of excessive lube
4. Put the stems into the top housings, I would wait for about 30s for the IPA to evaporate somewhat and then put the stems inside the top housings while they are still wet. Doing so will rub the powder onto the top housings, effectively lubing them as well.
5. Wait for fully dry
6. Get rid of the excessive powder I use a small brush to get rid of some at the opening like in the build log, then once I reassemble the switches, I put them in a bowl and throw them around a little bit to shake off more powder

Ultimately the mixing ratio does not matter, you can do more IPA vs. powder if you want lighter coat of powder or you could do it like me, overlube then get rid of the lube at later stage. If you start with decent switches, about 7/10, after adding powder lube it should get rid of 95% of all the bindings. The switches will be so smooth while retain all the characteristic of alps, you can use them up to 2.75u without stabs.

https://imgur.com/YfhWANl

[LightningXI]

Amazing build log, it'd be a fantastic experience to type on something you dedicated so much time and effort. Great job documenting all of this!

I'd like to know more about your method of PTFE and isopropyl alcohol. How do you do it step by step? Did you sonicate or clean your switches beforehand? Is it just the slider and the bottom that gets the PTFE/IPA? What is the dilution ratio for powder to alcohol? Did you use a brush to apply, or in the case of the sliders, did you just put them in a bag or container and shook them so it'd stick everywhere? I have a few packs of PTFE that I can use, but the methodology still escapes me.

ALPS are still a switch I'd like to understand better.

Thank you.

The powder is crumbly in general, it doesnt attach to itself but to different material, this is the best thing about powder lube, it makes powder the most consistent lube out there. You can apply the powder directly onto the stems but it's easier to use some sort of liquid as the medium for applying due to stronger adhesion force and surface tension. IPA is the ideal choice of liquid because it is readily available everywhere and dries up quickly.

Here is my method:
1. Ultra sonic the stems and housing
2. Mix ptfe and IPA in a container, I start with about 1/3 of a teaspoon of PTFE, then add about 8-10 times the amount IPA. The solution should be somewhat milky.
3. Submerge the stems in the solution, the powder doesnt attach to itself, so it is okay to overlube, you can always come back at a later stage to get rid of excessive lube
4. Put the stems into the top housings, I would wait for about 30s for the IPA to evaporate somewhat and then put the stems inside the top housings while they are still wet. Doing so will rub the powder onto the top housings, effectively lubing them as well.
5. Wait for fully dry
6. Get rid of the excessive powder I use a small brush to get rid of some at the opening like in the build log, then once I reassemble the switches, I put them in a bowl and throw them around a little bit to shake off more powder

Ultimately the mixing ratio does not matter, you can do more IPA vs. powder if you want lighter coat of powder or you could do it like me, overlube then get rid of the lube at later stage. If you start with decent switches, about 7/10, after adding powder lube it should get rid of 95% of all the bindings. The switches will be so smooth while retain all the characteristic of alps, you can use them up to 2.75u without stabs.

https://imgur.com/YfhWANl

You went above and beyond to explain this fully, with full reasoning behind each step of the application. I really, really appreciate it! Thank you so much.

[senter]

 I never know lubing the springs on ALPS switches is a thing. The dry lube powders are interesting too. Thanks for sharing all the details. It's very informative.

[pr0ximity]

Really top-notch writeup, thanks for sharing! It's really great to see all of the decision making and creativity that goes into builds of this caliber. Makes me want to break out some tools and try some new things.

Also very cool to see people so happy with partial, plastic plates. I think they're an absolute joy to type on, I can't wait to give my own partial POM plate a try!

[nevin]

after adding powder lube it should get rid of 95% of all the bindings. The switches will be so smooth while retain all the characteristic of alps, you can use them up to 2.75u without stabs.

That's fantastic to hear! The occasional binding on off center presses is really my only complaint about alps, and this will all but eliminate it! Awesome! Thanks for the info. Exactly what i was hoping for.

I'm working on a rebuild myself and picked up an aerosol version of the PTFE dry lube (CRC brand off amazon), we'll see how it goes, will definitely be a lighter coating than what's in the pics. but it really doesn't take much but a light layer for PTFE to do it's job.

[xondat]

I wish posts as good and detailed as this came around more often.

Really love the "comb" idea, not sure how I haven't seen it before. Sometimes simple solutions are the best I also had no idea that POM flexed that much, definitely a great demonstration.

Thanks for the write up!

[vegs]

I love projects like these. Good job!

[ReDsNoTDeAd]

Are you able to share any of the plate files? I'm looking to outfit my TX87 with some alps and I love this project.

[Delirious]

Are you able to share any of the plate files? I'm looking to outfit my TX87 with some alps and I love this project.

yes

[ReDsNoTDeAd]

Holy man this is complex. What are all the cutouts around the spacebar for?

Also, do you happen to have the comb thing you used for positioning the switches in DXF form or something?

[Delirious]

Holy man this is complex. What are all the cutouts around the spacebar for?

Also, do you happen to have the comb thing you used for positioning the switches in DXF form or something?

RED = sound reliefs, to normalize the downstroke sound a little bit, doesnt do anything with feel at all
YELLOW = alps wire is about 1.1-1.2mm which is very thin and could be warped easily, I like to use these for extra plate hooks to keep the wire straight. Cherry wire is about 1.5mm and doesnt have this warping problem





So there are 2 types of wires:
-Bottom: Alps electric made wire, which bends outward, usually found in Bigfoot boards or Leading edge. Then you use the GREEN holes
-Top: Other manufacturers, which bends inward, usually found in Focus or Omnikey or clones. Then you use the BLUE holes.

[ReDsNoTDeAd]

Holy man this is complex. What are all the cutouts around the spacebar for?

Also, do you happen to have the comb thing you used for positioning the switches in DXF form or something?

Show Image

RED = sound reliefs, to normalize the downstroke sound a little bit, doesnt do anything with feel at all
YELLOW = alps wire is about 1.1-1.2mm which is very thin and could be warped easily, I like to use these for extra plate hooks to keep the wire straight. Cherry wire is about 1.5mm and doesnt have this warping problem

Show Image

So there are 2 types of wires:
-Bottom: Alps electric made wire, which bends outward, usually found in Bigfoot boards or Leading edge. Then you use the GREEN holes
-Top: Other manufacturers, which bends inward, usually found in Focus or Omnikey or clones. Then you use the BLUE holes.

Awesome. Thanks for all the info. One last question - do you still have the files for a full plate (with the winkey, I have a TX87), and if so, would you mind linking them? I've got my own green alps ready to go

[tex_live_utility]

What a thorough job!

On the dry lubing, how much PTFE powder did you use? And is there any specific concentration of isopropyl required, or do you just need enough to dissolve the powder?

[Delirious]

Holy man this is complex. What are all the cutouts around the spacebar for?

Also, do you happen to have the comb thing you used for positioning the switches in DXF form or something?

Show Image

RED = sound reliefs, to normalize the downstroke sound a little bit, doesnt do anything with feel at all
YELLOW = alps wire is about 1.1-1.2mm which is very thin and could be warped easily, I like to use these for extra plate hooks to keep the wire straight. Cherry wire is about 1.5mm and doesnt have this warping problem

Show Image

So there are 2 types of wires:
-Bottom: Alps electric made wire, which bends outward, usually found in Bigfoot boards or Leading edge. Then you use the GREEN holes
-Top: Other manufacturers, which bends inward, usually found in Focus or Omnikey or clones. Then you use the BLUE holes.

Awesome. Thanks for all the info. One last question - do you still have the files for a full plate (with the winkey, I have a TX87), and if so, would you mind linking them? I've got my own green alps ready to go

Yes, please see attached

What a thorough job!

On the dry lubing, how much PTFE powder did you use? And is there any specific concentration of isopropyl required, or do you just need enough to dissolve the powder?

About the size of your pinky finger's nail is good enough for 100 switches. The amount of IPA depends on how thick or how thin you want the ptfe coat to be. The thicker/milkier the concentration will yield thicker coat and vice versa.

[ReDsNoTDeAd]

Thanks for the file. I've noticed your alps cutouts are 15.6 mm rather than the 15.5 mm as per the spec sheet. Is this just pre-allocated kerf, or is there a reason for doing this?

Also, where did you get your FR4 cut?

[Delirious]

15.5mm is what swill defaults to on his website IIRC, I got a couple plates cut in steel with that specs before and all the holes were consistently too tight so I added .1 for all my subsequent plates. The plate I use is made of Delrin/POM not FR4. Just look up any place that cut plastic and they will cut delrin for you, even a local place.

[ReDsNoTDeAd]

Good to know. What is that bottom row on the file you linked?

1.5 1 1.5 7 1.5 1 1.5 by the looks or it?

[ramnes]

Excellent, thanks for the awesome write up!

[Radlife]

Hi, sorry for this reply after so long. I am also trying to build an alps TKL and this has been the best thread/resource I could find. Do you have a plate file that has a standard bottom row? In my area it is very hard to get AEK keycaps but Taihao keycaps are available. Also the pcb I found doesn't support the side mounted alps for the top row.