Author Topic: Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod  (Read 135981 times)

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Offline ch_123

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #50 on: Sat, 17 April 2010, 11:05:01 »
An excellent mod - it has made the spacebar probably lighter than the rest of the keyboard, making my F more usable for prolonged typing.

EDIT: Whoops,  wrong Model F mod...
« Last Edit: Sat, 17 April 2010, 11:22:32 by ch_123 »

Offline skcheng

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #51 on: Mon, 26 April 2010, 00:58:26 »
Just completed this mod along with the spacebar mod.   Not a difficult mod at all.   Taking the case apart isn't all that difficult, but putting it back together can be a bit tricky.   Be sure to tie down the space bar spring/hammer with dental floss or fishing line before putting the metal back plate onto the frame assembly.  I took it apart and put it together 4x before I went back and read Jbert's post on using fishing line to hold the spring/hammer in place.  I found it easiest to connect the lower part of the assembly first, sliding the metal plate into the slots and then gently closing the assembly together and crimping the metal tabs  (what a terrible method to attach the plate and the frame together) in order to complete the assembly.  

The |\ key and the right enter work fine.   But the backspace key sounds like it's broken and wiggles around like a belly dancer.   I need to figure out a better means of stabilizing the key.   Anyone have any ideas??  

Pics with tips, do's/dont's at a later date.  

skc

Offline trievalot

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #52 on: Mon, 26 April 2010, 01:46:22 »
you need a M stableiser rod.....
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Offline HaaTa

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« Reply #53 on: Mon, 26 April 2010, 03:32:42 »
Yeah, worlds better with the stabilizers. Make sure you use one for both the Backspace and the Enter key.
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Offline skcheng

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« Reply #54 on: Mon, 26 April 2010, 06:54:03 »
Quote from: trievalot;176032
you need a M stableiser rod.....


Do you mean the white plastic inserts that drop in on the left side of the keys?  If so, I have those.   One for the backspace and one for the enter.   Or are talking about something else?  

Meanwhile, I have another problem.  When I hit the 0000 and the ------ I 0occasionally get more than one leter to type.   Uggghhh....it's coming apart again.  

Taking an AT F apart is a PITA.   Do you think I have the case put together too tightly??   I've reset the keys a bunch of times.  

skc

Offline HaaTa

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« Reply #55 on: Mon, 26 April 2010, 06:57:59 »
Yup, those white plastic inserts are the ones.

Lol, I need to take mine apart to reseat the ; and " keys. Usually I just shake the whole board a bunch of times, usually works. But the " key seems to be more stubborn.
Oh well my MX Red board needed some lov'n anyways.
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Offline skcheng

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« Reply #56 on: Mon, 26 April 2010, 07:07:10 »
Quote from: HaaTa;176048
Yup, those white plastic inserts are the ones.

Lol, I need to take mine apart to reseat the ; and " keys. Usually I just shake the whole board a bunch of times, usually works. But the " key seems to be more stubborn.
Oh well my MX Red board needed some lov'n anyways.



It sure isn't a walk in the park putting this beast together.   Assembly of the Space Savng Mini is a piece of cake compared to the AT F.   I was SOOO careful too.  Now that I feel around some more, I see that the entire top row wiggles more than the rest of the keys.  So maybe I didn't tighten down the top row enough.....

skc

Offline JBert

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #57 on: Mon, 26 April 2010, 15:09:58 »
Quote from: skcheng;176025
[see wire trick]... I found it easiest to connect the lower part of the assembly first, sliding the metal plate into the slots and then gently closing the assembly together and crimping the metal tabs  (what a terrible method to attach the plate and the frame together) in order to complete the assembly.
Wait, are you bending all the tabs?!? There are 6 or 8, but only one needs to be bent.

Check it, most have a special cut like this:
Code: [Select]
____
|  /
|  \
When the last one on the top or bottom row without a notch is bent away from the notch in the backplate, you should be able to slide front- and backplate away until it unlocks from the cuts in the other tabs.

Better make sure to straighten them again!
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Offline skcheng

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« Reply #58 on: Mon, 26 April 2010, 15:26:18 »
Quote from: JBert;176229
Wait, are you bending all the tabs?!? There are 6 or 8, but only one needs to be bent.

Check it, most have a special cut like this:
Code: [Select]
____
|  /
|  \
When the last one on the top or bottom row without a notch is bent away from the notch in the backplate, you should be able to slide front- and backplate away until it unlocks from the cuts in the other tabs.

Better make sure to straighten them again!



Mine had the left and the right tabs bent forward to retain the plate, so I simply did the same in reverse when I re-assembled the frame/plate.   But there is no means of knowing how tight/loose everything needs to be on that side of the assembly.  

Any tips??  Or photos showing what I'm doing wrong??  

Thx,

skc

Offline skcheng

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #59 on: Mon, 26 April 2010, 15:39:22 »
Quote from: JBert;176229
Wait, are you bending all the tabs?!? There are 6 or 8, but only one needs to be bent.

Check it, most have a special cut like this:
Code: [Select]
____
|  /
|  \
When the last one on the top or bottom row without a notch is bent away from the notch in the backplate, you should be able to slide front- and backplate away until it unlocks from the cuts in the other tabs.

Better make sure to straighten them again!



Now you have me thinking that I assembled the plate wrong.  On the bottom there is a row of notched connectors that obviously slide one way until the assembly can't slide anymore.  

But on the other side, by the PC board, there is no lock/key type connection.  Or is there??   Is there something on that side that snaps or clicks together??   I thought that side was simply held together by the crimped metal tab??  The ones in the center are straight and I didn't touch those.

skc

Offline JBert

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #60 on: Mon, 26 April 2010, 16:07:19 »
It's nearly impossible to assemble it wrong. If you reversed the backplate, you couldn't have mounted the controller board. Should you reverse the frontplate, the F-key rows would be on the right.

Take a look at an large picture of the back of the assembly from the Model F porn article. The bent tab is at the top right. If you then put the whole assembly upright (with the right edge of the backplate in the picture on your desk), you should be able to push down on the backplate. (Obviously keep them together until you have placed it flat again lest the hammers fall out.)
Once you got them flat again, lift the top or bottom edge of the backplate a little and you should be able to slide the backplate away from you or towards you, releasing it from the opposite row of tabs.

Clear enough?
There are some Youtube videos around of people taking apart model Fs. Since I'm currently using "narrow-band", I can't search for them.
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Offline skcheng

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #61 on: Mon, 26 April 2010, 21:30:23 »
Quote from: JBert;176243
It's nearly impossible to assemble it wrong. If you reversed the backplate, you couldn't have mounted the controller board. Should you reverse the frontplate, the F-key rows would be on the right.

Take a look at an large picture of the back of the assembly from the Model F porn article. The bent tab is at the top right. If you then put the whole assembly upright (with the right edge of the backplate in the picture on your desk), you should be able to push down on the backplate. (Obviously keep them together until you have placed it flat again lest the hammers fall out.)
Once you got them flat again, lift the top or bottom edge of the backplate a little and you should be able to slide the backplate away from you or towards you, releasing it from the opposite row of tabs.

Clear enough?
There are some Youtube videos around of people taking apart model Fs. Since I'm currently using "narrow-band", I can't search for them.


I understand how the opposite row of tabs slide in and out of place.   I'm just now sure how the side with the bent tab locks in place.  From what I gathered, I basically held it in place while bending the tab to keep it there.  If I let go of the PC Board side, it would basically spring open.   Am I missing something really simple here??

BTW, the backspace mod works incredibly well.  Right now my backspace is barely stiffer than the rest of the keys.   This keyboard is SOOOO loud LOL!!

If you can point me to a Youtube video I would greatly appreciate it.   I can't seem to find anything under IBM Model F.  

Thx,

skc

EDIT:  I'm an idiot.   I looked a little more closely at the assembly and I realized that I didn't have the tabs lined up on the PC Board side.   There was literally a 2mm gap btwn the plate and the frame.   DOOHH!!   So I move the plate 1/2mm to the left, bent the far right tab into the slot and BINGO, correct assembly after 8 attempts.   I didn't take pics, but if you could show how both sides need to line up for re-assembly, I'm sure it would save potential modketeers a LOT of pain and suffering.  

Now my Backspace doesn't wiggle and wobble anymore and I can type 000 and --- and === without any issues!!  

I definitely encourage anyone who loves their AT F to try both the Space Bar and the Big Backspace mod.  

In addition to these mods, I added a Red Esc key by the Num Lock which looks GREAT on this board.  And I also swapped in some nibbed F and J keys from a model M.   Now I'm loving this board!!!  

Thanks for all of your help JBert!!!   Great stuff!!
« Last Edit: Thu, 29 April 2010, 10:30:30 by skcheng »

Offline skcheng

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #62 on: Thu, 29 April 2010, 10:32:56 »
One other thing for anyone considering this modification.  With Windows XP Pro or Windows 7 Ultimate, the |\ key is automatically recognized.   Nothing needs to be done in addition to swapping the spring/hammer position and placing in the appropriate key.  So of course this mod is totally reversible.   That's for certain members with many posts and a NIB $450 AT F who might be on the fence about altering his/her closet shelf board :)

Offline JBert

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #63 on: Fri, 30 April 2010, 15:55:48 »
It seems they never thought that a standard AT keyboard had that much keys or scancodes.
Did you read this: Ubuntu: Multimediakeys?
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Offline skcheng

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« Reply #64 on: Sun, 02 May 2010, 11:48:21 »
I finally got some pictures loaded so that I could share some input with regards to this mod which I happen to REALLY like.

Here are two of my PC AT boards.  One is "like new" and the seller asked me to keep it in original condition.   So I obliged and decided to mod my "lesser" unit that arrived with a broken Enter key and is probably a 6 out of 10 in my ultra picky ranking of vintage gear.  



A closer shot of the board:



Note the pitting and corrosion on the metal main frame.  Clean it aggressively and you will remove the paint/primer and it will rust if used in a humid environment or if liquid is spilled onto the board.



Close up of the condition of the metal frame:



Next up is separating the casing.   This thing will squeal, creak like it's breaking in half when you take the two pieces apart.  As Haata mentions, that's "normal".  LOL.  Look at the pretty plated rear frame.  IBM obviously stopped doing that with the Model M.  I do have one really nice Space Saving Mini with what appears to be a nickel plated metal frame, but the rest of them look like crap.  Rough cut metal and that's it.  

Anyone try the single malts from Balvenie??   Wonderful stuff, especially my favorite the 21 yr. Portwood offering.  Just delicious.  



Here is a photo of the underside with what appears to be an undercoating of some kind.  Maybe one of the IbM gurus can chime in to explain why this was used??   Damping factor??   I don't know......but it's cool!!



Now disconnect all of this stuff but take a quick glance at where the connectors fit into the main PC board.  The first time I re-assembled the board, I thought I had blown out my LED strip, but I had simply snapped in the connector improperly engaging only one row of pins.   DOOHHH!!  



Pop the metal tab in the back, hit the metal frame lightly with a hard rubber mallet and rear metal frame and capacitve board come free.   I advise that you support the the spring/hammer assembly with left right supports unless you happen to enjoy replacing springs/hammers on these b/s boards.  I don't so I used two boxes on either side of the assembly.  Maybe I'm a Geek/Gleek, but I think this shot is simply beautiful:



And here's the rest of the assembly:



Space bar mod.   Now this is a tough one.   I did this 4 times to get it right.  First time....still too firm.   2nd time, too light, 3rd time, too light again and then on the 4th try I got it right.  I shot for standard Model M stiffness.  I have no method of gauging how much tension to set with this spring.  Just trial and error.   This was painful changing it again and again.   HUGE word of advice.   Use dental floss to hold the hammer/spring tight and pull it through the cylinder when re-assembling the case.  Otherwise, you'll end up swearing like a drunk sailor when your space bar feels great, but doesn't actuate.  



Haata's instructions are pretty clear about swapping the hammer position, placing the white key stabilizers and swapping in the appropriate keys, so just follow them.   Takes 2 minutes from here:



And here's the end result.  Red Esc key looks awesome there imho.   On every other board, that key will sit on the top left.......BORING!!!!  



I also swapped out the "F" and the "J" keycaps for regular Model M "nibbed" caps.    And it's nice that this board has the arrow keys on the home row.  You quickly get used to the position although you lose this when you apply the Num Lock.   Oh well.....no perfect board.  If there was, Geekhack would cease to exist and we would all own that one board.  

Hope this was helpful.  And I hope that this encourages Model AT F fans to give this a try.   It's well worth the effort.  And it's fully reversible.   If you want, for a small fee, I'll increase the stiffness of your space bar so that it would require foot activation  :-))

Thanks for reading!!

skc
« Last Edit: Mon, 03 May 2010, 12:27:11 by skcheng »

Offline skcheng

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #65 on: Sun, 02 May 2010, 12:28:22 »
Quote from: ripster;178159
Nice pics.  

I'm almost ready to try it but did you take pics of this process?


In general it seems taking apart is easy.  Putting back together is difficult.

P.S.  The "don't mod my baby" comment of the one seller cracked me up.   Is this an Open Adoption where you have to send pictures every Christmas?



Don't mod your NIB one.   Just keep that one stock.   You paid $450 for it right??  In ten years, it should be worth at least $460  LOL.   Just find another one to mod/tweak.   Or if you can't, I'll sell/trade you one.  I'm up to 4 working units and 4 broken ones that I should be able to repair.  

Just look closely at the notches on the bottom and the top of the assembly.  You'll be able to figure it out.  Someone was drunk at the wheel stamping out those metal plates because the notches and flanges don't exactly line up.  When you re-assemble the case, install the bottom first and slide the hooks in untill they won't slide any further, then gently lower the top section, and while holding it firmly (you could use clamps) bend the tab into the notch on the upper right.   Simple.  I used rubber tip forceps but any pair of pliers will work just fine.  

It would be a very nice mod to drill a few holes through the top in order to bolt the assembly together.  But that would be a LOT of work and probably not necessary.

I'm mod'ing another unit this week and I'll take some pics on hints for re-assembly.  

The seller of my "mint" AT F is an IBM purist.  Since the AT F works on modern pcs, he doesn't see the need to modify the board.  He suggests that I should appreciate the board for what it is and search for another board if I prefer a different layout or a lighter space bar.   But in all fairness, the unit I received from him has a "reasonable" space bar.  It's stiff, but I could deal with it.  On the unit that I modified, the space bar was a joke.  Two thumbs required.  

Oh ..... and the seller wasn't Brian O'Neill who has been GREAT to me.  I'll post my positive thoughts on Brian and rarekeyboardstore later this week.  People like him are what make hobbies like this fun!!!

Offline ricercar

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« Reply #66 on: Sun, 02 May 2010, 16:16:38 »
Wait wait wait. rip, don't tell me the $450 was just for sex, no keyboard?
I trolled Geekhack and all I got was an eponymous SPOS.

Offline maxlugar

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« Reply #67 on: Sun, 02 May 2010, 18:38:51 »
Quote from: ripster;178176
I'm pretty sure Maxlugar has to pay for it but we're talking keyboards in this thread.


LOL, at the moment, I only pay for some strange now & then, when I'm on the road.

I'm sure I'll have to pay for it someday when I'm 50, fat, bald, and losing me teeth. (kinda how I picture you now rip)  JK   :)

And if you didn't pay $450 for the NIB 84-key, then Brandon obviously likes you more than the rest of us.  :)
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Offline skcheng

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #68 on: Sun, 02 May 2010, 20:16:12 »
Great Unsolved GeekHack Mystery #1:   What did Ripster pay for his NIB IBM PC AT 84 key Keyboard????!!!!????

Offline ricercar

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« Reply #69 on: Sun, 02 May 2010, 23:57:33 »
[troll of ripster blocked]
I trolled Geekhack and all I got was an eponymous SPOS.

Offline maxlugar

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« Reply #70 on: Mon, 03 May 2010, 02:31:23 »
Quote from: ripster;178341
...


Ha Ha Ha!

I must have missed Miss Manners' advice column on that particular day.

It's not as if Brandon runs a silent auction.  I mean he does list the keyboard sales prices on his COMMERCE web page.  If the ripster gets preferential pricing, more power to him.  I don't think any of us really want to know exactly how ripster qualifies for those "special" discounts  (bad visual)  :)

Ironic that bit Miss Manners mentioned about bail.  If my Phoenix customers continue to behave badly and push the legal envelope, I might have to call on my affluent friends in the geekhack community to bail me out of jail someday.  (If I had money, I'd do the same for you all)   :)
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Offline HaaTa

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« Reply #71 on: Mon, 03 May 2010, 04:39:52 »
ricercar awesome avatar btw.

Now I want to go skiing :(
Passed 2 running ski resorts yesterday on my bike...season ends in a couple days though.
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Offline kishy

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #72 on: Mon, 03 May 2010, 10:41:32 »
Shakespearean Turd?
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Offline skcheng

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« Reply #73 on: Tue, 04 May 2010, 23:06:12 »
Geekhack must be the most "off-topic" forum I have EVER been a member of.   How does a backspace mod thread on a Model F keyboard turn into a discussion about Shakespeare and Poop???  

So Rip, have you torn into that NIB PC AT board yet??   Or anyone else for that matter?   C'mon boys and girls (and Webby).......get ur backspace mod FREAK on.   I want to see if everyone else is as excited about this mod as I am.   Can't be just me, Jbert and Haata??    

Rip.....do this mod and I'm sure you'll toggle your ranking at least 2 to 3 spots.  At least put it up in front of the Re^lforce LOL.

Offline skcheng

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« Reply #74 on: Tue, 04 May 2010, 23:08:56 »
Quote:
Dear Miss Manners,
How do I handle people who persistently try to ask the price of my NIB keyboards? I suspect they are doing so out of jealousy or to try and make me feel bad. Why should I tell these rude people a thing?  

Quote:
Gentle Reader,
You are quite right that you need not say anything — indeed, should not, as it only invites busybodies to probe deeper. Miss Manners suggests that you reply, "You are so kind to take an interest in my private finances, but you needn't worry. I'm managing all right, and promise that I won't be calling on you for bail money


LOL.   I'm going to stat a poll where everyone gets to guess what Ripster paid for his NIB PC AT???   Winner with the nearest guess gets a special colored IBM Esc keycap!!!!
« Last Edit: Tue, 04 May 2010, 23:11:15 by skcheng »

Offline maxlugar

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #75 on: Wed, 05 May 2010, 00:20:01 »
Quote from: skcheng;179051
Geekhack must be the most "off-topic" forum I have EVER been a member of.   How does a backspace mod thread on a Model F keyboard turn into a discussion about Shakespeare and Poop???  

So Rip, have you torn into that NIB PC AT board yet??   Or anyone else for that matter?   C'mon boys and girls (and Webby).......get ur backspace mod FREAK on.   I want to see if everyone else is as excited about this mod as I am.   Can't be just me, Jbert and Haata??    

Rip.....do this mod and I'm sure you'll toggle your ranking at least 2 to 3 spots.  At least put it up in front of the Re^lforce LOL.


Hey, I'm excited!

Especially since SK graciously offered to help me with the mod for a modest fee.  :)

For me, nothing else I've tried matches the satisfaction of a well kept 84-key PC AT Model F.  I'm already accustomed to the non-standard layout, but Haa Taa's key mod seems like a way to make a great keyboard even better.

I hate to acknowledge when ripster is right, but I  rely on the dedicated arrow keys more than I realized.  When I toggle between the 84-key and my standard 87 or 104-key boards, the hardest adjustment is the lack of dedicated cursor control keys on the AT keyboard.

I have been very busy lately so I haven't had the time to post my impression of the nuts & bolts mod Model M Space Saving Mini.  I have to say, I like it
much more than I expected.  

I understand the ergonomic advantage of being able to place the mouse directly to the right of the keyboard - something I've not done with my Realforce 87U or HHKB Pro 2 because I usually place my 23UB numeric keypad to the right of the keyboard.

I'll try and post a more substantive review of the nuts & bolts Model M Mini when I have some free time.

Now, if one of you rocket scientists can create a mod to add dedicated cursor control keys to the 84-key AT Model F,  THAT would be impressive!
« Last Edit: Wed, 05 May 2010, 01:56:52 by maxlugar »
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Offline phoenix

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« Reply #76 on: Wed, 05 May 2010, 00:42:00 »
Quote from: maxlugar;179061
Now, if one of you rocket scientists can create a mod to add dedicated cursor control keys to the 84-key AT Model F.  THAT would be impressive!


Where do you want them to be? There's no empty space on the board. AutoHotKey will be much simpler. Define your caps lock to add another layer of keys. E.g., Caps Lock + numpad 1,2,3,5 will be left, down, right, up. Caps Lock + numpad 4,7 for home, end, Caps Lock + numpad 6, 9 for pg up, pg down. Your thumb will almost naturally rest on Caps lock when your press those keys.

Offline maxlugar

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #77 on: Wed, 05 May 2010, 02:00:44 »
Quote from: phoenix;179066
Where do you want them to be? There's no empty space on the board. AutoHotKey will be much simpler. Define your caps lock to add another layer of keys. E.g., Caps Lock + numpad 1,2,3,5 will be left, down, right, up. Caps Lock + numpad 4,7 for home, end, Caps Lock + numpad 6, 9 for pg up, pg down. Your thumb will almost naturally rest on Caps lock when your press those keys.


I want dedicated arrow keys in the shape of an inverted T!

I know there's no empty space on the board and no practical way to do it.  That's why I'm challenging the collective intellectual capacity of the geekhack geniuses to find a way to achieve the seemingly impossible.  :)
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Offline phoenix

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #78 on: Wed, 05 May 2010, 02:13:31 »
Quote from: maxlugar;179072
I want dedicated arrow keys in the shape of an inverted T!


AHK is not a real solution, but the keys I proposed, 1,2,3 and 5, are in the shape of an inverted T...

Offline maxlugar

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #79 on: Wed, 05 May 2010, 02:17:23 »
Quote from: phoenix;179075
AHK is not a real solution, but the keys I proposed, 1,2,3 and 5, are in the shape of an inverted T...


I know and I appreciate the suggestion.  :)  

Are you still using your 84-key Model F?  If so, what impressions have you formed relative to your other keyboards?
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Offline phoenix

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #80 on: Wed, 05 May 2010, 03:46:37 »
Quote from: maxlugar;179077
Are you still using your 84-key Model F?  If so, what impressions have you formed relative to your other keyboards?


Not using it much (been trying a Topre 87u lately), but it's the best thing I've typed on. (That's not saying much. I've only tried Cherry brown/black, Black Alps, Model M and Topre.) Until we have a good solution for arrow keys I can't use the Model F for much text editing, which is what I do a lot these days. Someone needs to do a mod to bring back the two unused contacts under the space bar. With more modifier keys by the thumbs, a true hhkb-styled layout mod may become feasible (I want left-thumb Fn + IJKL to be the arrows).

This reminds me. What happened to msiegel's Model F Mod?

Offline skcheng

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #81 on: Wed, 05 May 2010, 06:48:58 »
Quote from: maxlugar;179061
Hey, I'm excited!

Especially since SK graciously offered to help me with the mod for a modest fee.  :)

For me, nothing else I've tried matches the satisfaction of a well kept 84-key PC AT Model F.  I'm already accustomed to the non-standard layout, but Haa Taa's key mod seems like a way to make a great keyboard even better.

I hate to acknowledge when ripster is right, but I  rely on the dedicated arrow keys more than I realized.  When I toggle between the 84-key and my standard 87 or 104-key boards, the hardest adjustment is the lack of dedicated cursor control keys on the AT keyboard.

I have been very busy lately so I haven't had the time to post my impression of the nuts & bolts mod Model M Space Saving Mini.  I have to say, I like it
much more than I expected.  

I understand the ergonomic advantage of being able to place the mouse directly to the right of the keyboard - something I've not done with my Realforce 87U or HHKB Pro 2 because I usually place my 23UB numeric keypad to the right of the keyboard.

I'll try and post a more substantive review of the nuts & bolts Model M Mini when I have some free time.

Now, if one of you rocket scientists can create a mod to add dedicated cursor control keys to the 84-key AT Model F,  THAT would be impressive!



Shoot me out your board with the WORST space bar.   And see if you can spare the parts needed for this backspace mod.   I keep buying Model M boards thinking that I'll be using them as donor boards, but then I simply repair them and replace the missing keys.   If you can't find the parts no big deal since I now have enough spare keys to modify two more AT F boards.  And now I know what I'm doing LOL.  

I need to nuts/bolts modify another Space Saving Mini too.   Next up will be a completely silenced Mini with those o-rings, Super Floss, one piece caps and the nuts/bolts mod.

Offline skcheng

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #82 on: Wed, 05 May 2010, 06:49:30 »
Quote from: phoenix;179100
Not using it much (been trying a Topre 87u lately), but it's the best thing I've typed on. (That's not saying much. I've only tried Cherry brown/black, Black Alps, Model M and Topre.) Until we have a good solution for arrow keys I can't use the Model F for much text editing, which is what I do a lot these days. Someone needs to do a mod to bring back the two unused contacts under the space bar. With more modifier keys by the thumbs, a true hhkb-styled layout mod may become feasible (I want left-thumb Fn + IJKL to be the arrows).

This reminds me. What happened to msiegel's Model F Mod?



What was msiegel's mod??

Offline HaaTa

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #83 on: Wed, 05 May 2010, 10:27:20 »
*Glances at his Model F AT*
*Reads msiegel's mod page again*

Nope not happening to mine.

Most I'll probably mod out of it, is adding the two extra keys under the spacebar. But that'll have to wait till July if I decide to go through with it.
Well unless the controller dies, then I'll have fun with it (cry first though).
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Offline maxlugar

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #84 on: Wed, 05 May 2010, 20:16:38 »
Quote from: HaaTa;179159


Well unless the controller dies, then I'll have fun with it (cry first though).


Don't hold your breath pal.  IBM Model F keyboards are like Keith Richards.  You can abuse the hell out of 'em but they just keep working.  (with the exception of Coke spills).  

We'll probably all be long gone before the controller in you 84-key AT keyboard dies.  After the final world war, the survivors will be Keith, cockroaches, and Model F keyboards  :)
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Offline HaaTa

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« Reply #85 on: Wed, 05 May 2010, 21:39:35 »
Quote from: maxlugar;179387
Don't hold your breath pal.  IBM Model F keyboards are like Keith Richards.  You can abuse the hell out of 'em but they just keep working.  (with the exception of Coke spills).  

We'll probably all be long gone before the controller in you 84-key AT keyboard dies.  After the final world war, the survivors will be Keith, cockroaches, and Model F keyboards  :)


Yay!
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Offline mr_a500

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #86 on: Wed, 05 May 2010, 22:04:20 »
I don't get it. Who the hell needs a big backspace key? Do people reach for the backspace, miss it, and hit the backslash instead? You'd have to be either spastic or drunk to do that. (...I guess I answered my own question there...;)

The only problem I ever have with my AT keyboard is when some stupid application wants me to "press F12".

Offline maxlugar

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #87 on: Wed, 05 May 2010, 22:14:58 »
Quote from: mr_a500;179406
I don't get it. Who the hell needs a big backspace key? Do people reach for the backspace, miss it, and hit the backslash instead? You'd have to be either spastic or drunk to do that. (...I guess I answered my own question there...;)

The only problem I ever have with my AT keyboard is when some stupid application wants me to "press F12".


I personally don't have a problem with the small Backspace key on the 84-key AT keyboards, nor the large inverted L Enter key.  

What applications are you using which require F12?  I can't remember the last time I used any application which required F11 or F12.
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Offline mr_a500

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #88 on: Wed, 05 May 2010, 22:21:32 »
Quote from: maxlugar;179409
I personally don't have a problem with the small Backspace key on the 84-key AT keyboards, nor the large inverted L Enter key.  

What applications are you using which require F12?  I can't remember the last time I used any application which required F11 or F12.


Actually, I can't think of any current applications I have that require it, but WinUAE (back when I still had a drive with Windows on it) uses F12 to pop up the control window. Without that, you can't even access the GUI to quit the damn thing.

I'm used to the small backspace key, from years of using Amigas and other old computers.

Offline HaaTa

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« Reply #89 on: Wed, 05 May 2010, 23:19:26 »
Ah the F12/F11. Yeah in software F11 is often used for Fullscreen. Recently migrated away from Opera, so that's no longer a problem for me. I really could've just fixed that with software though.

F12 is often used for BIOS keys, so I usually need to keep a spare board around for that.
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Offline maxlugar

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #90 on: Thu, 06 May 2010, 00:50:13 »
Quote from: HaaTa;179423
Ah the F12/F11. Yeah in software F11 is often used for Fullscreen. Recently migrated away from Opera, so that's no longer a problem for me. I really could've just fixed that with software though.

F12 is often used for BIOS keys, so I usually need to keep a spare board around for that.


Yeah, I forgot you technical types have unique requirements related to application development.

Me?, I'm just a simple bean counter  :)
« Last Edit: Thu, 06 May 2010, 02:24:11 by maxlugar »
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Offline ch_123

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #91 on: Thu, 06 May 2010, 03:05:20 »
F11 is fullscreen for just about everything really.

Offline skcheng

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #92 on: Thu, 06 May 2010, 06:16:10 »
Quote from: mr_a500;179406
I don't get it. Who the hell needs a big backspace key? Do people reach for the backspace, miss it, and hit the backslash instead? You'd have to be either spastic or drunk to do that. (...I guess I answered my own question there...;)

The only problem I ever have with my AT keyboard is when some stupid application wants me to "press F12".



I got used to the small backspace, but I live in backspace land.   I use it wipe out entire sentences of stupid crap that I type here on Geekhack.  And I get tired of trying to hit the \ button and doing

this instead.....   :)

I don't mind the Fn buttons since I never use them.  But after 20 yrs of the standard US layout, it's hard to get accustomed to anything else.

Offline itlnstln

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #93 on: Thu, 06 May 2010, 07:37:08 »
Quote from: webwit;179473
If you keep hitting \ it means the HHKB layout is better.

Damnit.  I do this.


Offline trievalot

  • Posts: 246
Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #94 on: Thu, 06 May 2010, 08:03:54 »
Quote from: HaaTa;179423
Ah the F12/F11. Yeah in software F11 is often used for Fullscreen. Recently migrated away from Opera, so that's no longer a problem for me. I really could've just fixed that with software though.

F12 is often used for BIOS keys, so I usually need to keep a spare board around for that.


you have a spare keyboard???? zomg.

well.....im just a spastic who needs a big backspace key.
[SIGPIC]

Offline HaaTa

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« Reply #95 on: Thu, 06 May 2010, 08:47:00 »
I always have a second board available for when my mood changes. Rather than punch someone in the face, I pull out the Model F and sound like a machine gun for a few hours.
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Offline kishy

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« Reply #96 on: Thu, 06 May 2010, 12:52:00 »
And hit them with the keyboard.
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Offline JBert

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #97 on: Thu, 06 May 2010, 14:21:27 »
Quote from: skcheng;179051
So Rip, have you torn into that NIB PC AT board yet??   Or anyone else for that matter?   C'mon boys and girls (and Webby).......get ur backspace mod FREAK on.   I want to see if everyone else is as excited about this mod as I am.   Can't be just me, Jbert and Haata??
Actually, I haven't done this mod. I like the keyboard pretty much as it is, only the extremely heavy weight of the spacebar was killing my thumb. (Seriously, with its 70-80g it was 1/3 heavier than the rest of the keys)

Seeing how I use Colemak, I can still use my Caps Lock key which I can safely press with the edge of my right hand.
Never used it though,  I tend to hit the backspace key accurately.
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Offline skcheng

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #98 on: Fri, 07 May 2010, 10:44:07 »
Quote from: JBert;179545
Actually, I haven't done this mod. I like the keyboard pretty much as it is, only the extremely heavy weight of the spacebar was killing my thumb. (Seriously, with its 70-80g it was 1/3 heavier than the rest of the keys)

Seeing how I use Colemak, I can still use my Caps Lock key which I can safely press with the edge of my right hand.
Never used it though,  I tend to hit the backspace key accurately.


The small backspace was a big negative for me.  I rarely use the Caps Lock, so the position didn't matter, but I'm just so used to have the |\ key in the familiar position.   Can't get used to the HHKB2 (yet) for the same reason.

Just try this mod.......it's fully reversible.  Now that I know how to lock down that space bar hammer/spring, it takes me minutes to re-assemble the case.   Piece of cake.   Taking apart another AT F keyboard right now to fix some damage to some of the barrels on the numpad.   Almost looks like something REALLY heavy was dropped on the numpad side cracking a bunch of keys and the barrels.

Offline skcheng

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« Reply #99 on: Fri, 07 May 2010, 10:53:38 »
Quote from: ripster;179810
SK - can you take some pics during reassembly.  This alignment thing sounded confusing.


Yes, I will.   I just took apart  (in btwn pts)  a regular Model F board and dumped out all of the barrels and hammer springs.   I'll take pics when I get a chance on re-assembly with some tips.  

Someone mentioned flipping the board upside down before replacing the keys and I know why.   It's easy on the Model F to snag while replacing keycaps.  On those few that don't register properly, flip the board upside down and replace the cap.   I know that sounds silly and totally unnecessary with standard Model M boards, but it's just one of the oddities about the Model F.