Sorry if this is stupid but you guys are talking about having ISO-UK as some sort of standard. Wouldn't ISO-DE make much more sense? Because it shares more similarities to other iso versions. Also, wouldn't blank keys be way better?
I would never buy an expensive set without the proper legends on it. For something cheap sure - then I'm happy if I just have the correct key sizes, but if we are talking about anything over like ~$60 dollars, no way.
Frankly the attitude of some makers scare me. Like the AltGr argument people tried to have with me with the Oblivion kit (duuh there are no tertiary legends in the characters set so what would you do with the AltGr key? Lol what..). Jesus Christ. I'm still not sure if they were trolling or just dense.
And just to echo some sentiments - yes it is outright offensive to include lots of exotic layouts in the base kit and then not even offer a standard iso kit.
There’s two levels to this.
1. It’s wrong to exclude an important minority just so ANSI-users can save €4. It’s also hypocritical for people to get salty that ISO is in base kit, when we’re all paying for things that are far more esoteric (65 keys, 40s, extra B for the literally dozens of TGR Alice users out there). What we’re talking about is physical ISO, so that as someone who uses ISO keyboards the keys can physically fit on the board.
50% of the world use ISO, about 20% of the mechanical keyboard community and about 8-12% of base kit buyers usually buy a NorDeUk kit. It’s not some niche layout that’s dying out, it’s a core part of what a keyboard is for half the people who use keyboards on the planet.
2. Correct legends. When paying $150+ on keycaps it’s nice to have the option for correct legends. This is a distinct next level from physical ISO support. For a while we saw UK-ISO included as standard and so that’s the norm that’s being challenged recently. Many set designers don’t even bother running a NorDeUk kit anymore just because at 8-12% of sales compared to base kit, and with its own MOQ it can often be a hassle.
To be clear, I think splitting up kits into lots of smaller kits and letting people pick and choose is a great idea in theory, but because MOQ exits we need to find clever ways of finding compromises so that significant minorities won’t be stamped out of this hobby and will get the caps I need.
That means that every person won’t get the optimal/best value they possibly could, but through compromise more people are supported and the hobby is more diverse/inclusive. I think often when you’re in the majority it’s difficult to empathise with the needs of others, and that’s definitely the impression I’m getting from people in this thread.
Although there are a couple, the vast majority of ISO users I know wouldn’t switch to ANSI so this issue isn’t going away anytime soon.