Dox KB, Build your own!

[TheProfosist]

I can change the layout for you if that i what you want

Thanks alot!, now we need to get the other stuff buttoned down. Once i know everything can be made or bought ill bite and buy everything.

[bloodygood]

Do you have any plans to develop a version to use the Chameleon or Aikon controllers?

I would love a PCB layout to the keylayout I posted just a few posts ago if that wouldn't be any trouble. It does not need to allow for LED's so the switches can be either direction without the LED lead holes. Thank you very much in advance for any help or advice. It might be important to note that I plan on using costar stabalizers and I don't know if your original has the sizing for that or the Cherry stabalizers on the PCB

I wonder how possible it would be to place the controller as close to the middle on the top row as possible so that the keyboard could have a detatchable mini-usb angled adapter as mentioned earlier in the forum. I would be happy to investigate into this once I figure out how the rows/columns relate to the pins on the Teensy.

[TheProfosist]

Do you have any plans to develop a version to use the Chameleon or Aikon controllers?

I would love a PCB layout to the keylayout I posted just a few posts ago if that wouldn't be any trouble. It does not need to allow for LED's so the switches can be either direction without the LED lead holes. Thank you very much in advance for any help or advice. It might be important to note that I plan on using costar stabalizers and I don't know if your original has the sizing for that or the Cherry stabalizers on the PCB

I wonder how possible it would be to place the controller as close to the middle on the top row as possible so that the keyboard could have a detatchable mini-usb angled adapter as mentioned earlier in the forum. I would be happy to investigate into this once I figure out how the rows/columns relate to the pins on the Teensy.

I would say probably not to the other controllers as the availability of the Teensy is much higher than any of the others. Also the teensy is what this project started out using and everything that we have worked on was designed with it in mind. Also where are you planning on getting costar stabilizers? As I was planning on using Cherry because their readily available. I believe the mini usb posrt does go out the back though ishtob might have had some trouble with that.


Also ishtob could we get some more pictures of home your current one turned out I know you did show a few before but I think the were only about problem areas. Also could you go over the concerns that you have again to see if we can drum up some ideas? Also where you put your teensy would we need some sort of cutout so the button is still accessible with a plate on top?

[bloodygood]

I would say probably not to the other controllers as the availability of the Teensy is much higher than any of the others. Also the teensy is what this project started out using and everything that we have worked on was designed with it in mind. Also where are you planning on getting costar stabilizers? As I was planning on using Cherry because their readily available. I believe the mini usb posrt does go out the back though ishtob might have had some trouble with that.


Also ishtob could we get some more pictures of home your current one turned out I know you did show a few before but I think the were only about problem areas. Also could you go over the concerns that you have again to see if we can drum up some ideas? Also where you put your teensy would we need some sort of cutout so the button is still accessible with a plate on top?

As I said in a previous post I heard WASD say he would be getting them in at some point in the near future. I believe WASD keyboards use costar, he just wasn't originally selling them as separates because he wasn't stockpiling them as we would need for a groupbuy. My main gripe with cherry stabilizers is that they do not feel as natural or comfortable as costar ones. I don't want to make something I don't absolutely love 100%.

And yes I do know the project wasn't originally meant for the other controllers but it wouldn't hurt to ask, maybe there was some curiosity towards it but the idea was still in prototype you know?

[ishtob]

what does the costar stab's look like? I've only got a working template for the cherry PCB mounted stabs (I'm actually typing on it right now) if you can find me a schematic or something from costar's manufacturer I may be able to get something made.... though I would have no way to test it.

[ishtob]

here's the layout you guys want, I have not checked this out live yet, I have a version of this latest revision (but with the short shfit +FN) in the mail, it should be here tomorrow, but spare switches aren'y coming for a week, so I won't be able to troubleshoot and look for errors until sometimes next week.

one more thing, you will see "##" over a few resisters, those will need to be different from the rest, as they are not connected to a serie of 2 LED but rather regulates 1 single LED, you will need a resister of a different value or you will burn out those LED

[bloodygood]

what does the costar stab's look like? I've only got a working template for the cherry PCB mounted stabs (I'm actually typing on it right now) if you can find me a schematic or something from costar's manufacturer I may be able to get something made.... though I would have no way to test it.

As far as what they look like the only examples I have (at the moment) are from the wiki which have nice resolution pictures. Each one should line up perfectly under the stems as long as the keys are compatible with Filco's/WASD. I am trying to find the schematic data and I will update this post if I find it, but for tonight (it is late) I am heading to bed.
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:12649#vw-head-4

[ishtob]

ok, so it looks like something we need to do on the plate, not the PCB

[ishtob]

oh, and those who wants to use this PCB, know that you will need to but and solder a miniusb to fit right next to the space bar switch stabilizer so taht the teensy's usb port will be connect to the one in the back, you will also need this for mounting the USB to the back of the board

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 32274[/ATTACH]

[ishtob]

Has there been much interest in attempting to achieve NKRO via PS/2? I know for most people that isn't a deal breaker, but it has come in handy more times than not and I really don't want to go back to those dark ages without it.

I am currently looking over the PCB for changing the layout slightly to use the original sized right shift key, although I do not know the exact position for the mount. It seems like every version of the PCB I have seen on here needed modification in some way, almost every time it seems like extra wires were necessary as opposed to completely PCB based connections. Is there any documentation on the PCB to teensy connections?

the wires I've used are to fix mistakes I've made in designing the traces. MY idea was to have the only wire you would need are to hook up the USB of the teensy to the pcb mounted USB port as seen below:




unless someone knows of a way to use the ports on the teensy to accomplish this, I dont see anyway to avoid having some wires

[bloodygood]

oh, and those who wants to use this PCB, know that you will need to but and solder a miniusb to fit right next to the space bar switch stabilizer so taht the teensy's usb port will be connect to the one in the back, you will also need this for mounting the USB to the back of the board

(Attachment Link) 32274[/ATTACH]

The Teensy is soldered to the underside of the PCB right? This picture is just confusing me a bit I guess I just do not see how you would gain access to the Teensy button under neath a metal plate if it is mounted to the top side of the PCB, and couldn't that cause problems to the key travel for the spacebar or risk a short under the metal plate?

[ishtob]

The Teensy is soldered to the underside of the PCB right? This picture is just confusing me a bit I guess

Show Image

I just do not see how you would gain access to the Teensy button under neath a metal plate if it is mounted to the top side of the PCB, and couldn't that cause problems to the key travel for the spacebar or risk a short under the metal plate?

I am currently without a plate, everything is just PCB mounted... haven't had time to learn to work CAD to get a plate drawn up, but if I were to draw a plate, this section would not have a plate over, and hte button can be accessed by removing the space bar keycap

[litster]

I am currently without a plate, everything is just PCB mounted... haven't had time to learn to work CAD to get a plate drawn up, but if I were to draw a plate, this section would not have a plate over, and hte button can be accessed by removing the space bar keycap

Could you wire the switch off-board so you can access the switch without removing the spacebar?

[bloodygood]

I am currently without a plate, everything is just PCB mounted... haven't had time to learn to work CAD to get a plate drawn up, but if I were to draw a plate, this section would not have a plate over, and hte button can be accessed by removing the space bar keycap

I think it would be possible to move the Teensy to the underside and still have a USB mount port to the top of the PCB. Give me some time and I will go over the layout in my head tomorrow and see what I can come up with. Working with multiple layers really does take a lot of getting used to visually. Since I wasn't originally planning on working with the LED leads though I am not sure I am qualified to adjust for that.

Could you wire the switch off-board so you can access the switch without removing the spacebar?

I could see that being possible, but it would take modifying the Teensy and that is such tiny hardware that I wouldn't personally want to make that adjustment.

[ishtob]

so the plate would look kind of like this:

[bloodygood]

so the plate would look kind of like this:
*snip*

Although that is assuming the Costar stabilizer would still be balanced and hold properly given the gap right next to it. Like I said, I will think it over tonight and work on moving the Teensy to the underside of the PCB in the morning. I think it is a much better idea to just open up the case and press the button on the underside, then trying to deal with desoldering or having a metal plate with gaps. Also ensures that both types of stabilizers would be unaffected by the Teensy's shape

[litster]

I could see that being possible, but it would take modifying the Teensy and that is such tiny hardware that I wouldn't personally want to make that adjustment.

I suppose you don't have to remove that existing switch from the teensy PCB, just wire in a separate switch that you can reach easily.

[bloodygood]

I suppose you don't have to remove that existing switch from the teensy PCB, just wire in a separate switch that you can reach easily.

I suppose it is a good time for me to ask this, what all does the Teensy button do anyway? Is it something we will need to press more than once per day, week, month, year? If we only need it for the initial updating of the code I really doubt we need to access the button again and therefore leaving it hidden prevents accidental erases perhaps?

The teensy is very teensy.

[ishtob]

or we just re do some of the PCB traces and a dd a hole, and flip the teensy around then drill a hole in the bottom of the case, you would be  able to access the button with a pen or similar objects

[ishtob]

I suppose it is a good time for me to ask this, what all does the Teensy button do anyway? Is it something we will need to press more than once per day, week, month, year? If we only need it for the initial updating of the code I really doubt we need to access the button again and therefore leaving it hidden prevents accidental erases perhaps?

Show Image

The teensy is very teensy.

I use it less and less, the first week after i finished the board, I did it every day to tweak my function layers as I saw fit, but not so much anymore

[TheProfosist]

here's the layout you guys want, I have not checked this out live yet, I have a version of this latest revision (but with the short shfit +FN) in the mail, it should be here tomorrow, but spare switches aren'y coming for a week, so I won't be able to troubleshoot and look for errors until sometimes next week.

one more thing, you will see "##" over a few resisters, those will need to be different from the rest, as they are not connected to a serie of 2 LED but rather regulates 1 single LED, you will need a resister of a different value or you will burn out those LED

what are the specs of the 2 different resistors that we would need also have you been able to track down and white leds that fall into the specification that we need to work with the DOX?

ok, so it looks like something we need to do on the plate, not the PCB

yes its something with the plate and I think the holes are the same size the only difference would be the spacing for the spacebar which should be easy to include both.

the wires I've used are to fix mistakes I've made in designing the traces. MY idea was to have the only wire you would need are to hook up the USB of the teensy to the pcb mounted USB port as seen below:

Show Image

unless someone knows of a way to use the ports on the teensy to accomplish this, I dont see anyway to avoid having some wires

couldnt you desolder the usb port on the teensy and wire directly to it would that be easier?

I suppose you don't have to remove that existing switch from the teensy PCB, just wire in a separate switch that you can reach easily.

is removing the spacebar that big of deal to get at the switch?

I suppose it is a good time for me to ask this, what all does the Teensy button do anyway? Is it something we will need to press more than once per day, week, month, year? If we only need it for the initial updating of the code I really doubt we need to access the button again and therefore leaving it hidden prevents accidental erases perhaps?

Show Image

The teensy is very teensy.

you only really use it until you find the layout that you like which for me has already been determined and tested

[bloodygood]

I use it less and less, the first week after i finished the board, I did it every day to tweak my function layers as I saw fit, but not so much anymore

That is pretty much what I was thinking, it is something that probably shouldn't be accessible at all times since it is only really necessary at first, and maybe later down the road for very rare tweaks. Spending the first week or so with the keyboard not screwed together but still assembled allows easy access to change it at will, then once you are happy with the setup you can screw it together and the next time you need to really make a change, just unscrew it and press the button.

[bloodygood]

couldnt you desolder the usb port on the teensy and wire directly to it would that be easier?

is removing the spacebar that big of deal to get at the switch?

For the sake of everyone who plans on making this mod, doing as little modifying to components really would be favorable because it would make it more accessible to the public and those who are just getting started.
1. solder teensy
2. solder mx switches
3. solder usb hub
I know that isn't necessarily the actual order of course, but that isn't my point. Promoting simplicity boosts confidence. Makes the project truly user friendly and intrigues more members to try it.

No removing the spacebar is not that big of a deal, but it also looks cleaner when switching out keycaps later, or not worrying about bottoming out and hitting the micro controller. And the idea of not placing something there you won't be using all the time.

[ishtob]

what are the specs of the 2 different resistors that we would need also have you been able to track down and white leds that fall into the specification that we need to work with the DOX?

No, all the white I've came by are using 2.9-3.4V, if you can find anything =<2.5V it would work, but we'll need to calculate new vales for those resisters (prob 1ohm)
as for the current layout, baed on the 2.2V LED's im using, it should be 100ohm for the seried LED and 470 for the lone LED, this would provide 6mA of power to every LED, which you've seen in my pics

couldnt you desolder the usb port on the teensy and wire directly to it would that be easier?

Yes, that would work, but is it easier?
First of all: I hate desoldering
secondly, those pads are tiny, and with the soldering I have I don't think I would be able to accurately solder wires to thsoe pads even after I remove the

is removing the spacebar that big of deal to get at the switch?
...
you only really use it until you find the layout that you like which for me has already been determined and tested

I believe you just answered your own question

[ishtob]

For the sake of everyone who plans on making this mod, doing as little modifying to components really would be favorable because it would make it more accessible to the public and those who are just getting started.
1. solder teensy
2. solder mx switches
3. solder usb hub
I know that isn't necessarily the actual order of course, but that isn't my point. Promoting simplicity boosts confidence. Makes the project truly user friendly and intrigues more members to try it.

No removing the spacebar is not that big of a deal, but it also looks cleaner when switching out keycaps later, or not worrying about bottoming out and hitting the micro controller. And the idea of not placing something there you won't be using all the time.

I tested and retested before ordering the board as I have a metal space bar (which mean contact of any short = bad) I've already assembled the board, using it for the past week and half and i yet to have any issues with shorting out.
I planned it to sit at the same height as the plate (if there will be any) and the USB section would be under the switch.

There is going to be an issue for those who are going to be using the filco/leo hybrid space bar, as the USB will be directly under the leo-MX switch thingy.

edit: Oh, and I bottom out all the time... especially when i'm mad

[ishtob]

For the sake of everyone who plans on making this mod, doing as little modifying to components really would be favorable because it would make it more accessible to the public and those who are just getting started.
1. solder teensy
2. solder mx switches
3. solder usb hub
I know that isn't necessarily the actual order of course, but that isn't my point. Promoting simplicity boosts confidence. Makes the project truly user friendly and intrigues more members to try it.

No removing the spacebar is not that big of a deal, but it also looks cleaner when switching out keycaps later, or not worrying about bottoming out and hitting the micro controller. And the idea of not placing something there you won't be using all the time.

steps for my build: (in order)
1. solder diodes (and resisters if your using LED)
2. Solder wires to a cut mini usb's back end
3. solder other end of those wire to PCB
4. plug in and solder teensy
5. solder USB
6. solder MX switches
optional: add LED

that's basically it, takes about 2 hours to solder (most of it spent on the diodes and resisters)

[TheProfosist]

No, all the white I've came by are using 2.9-3.4V, if you can find anything =<2.5V it would work, but we'll need to calculate new vales for those resisters (prob 1ohm)
as for the current layout, baed on the 2.2V LED's im using, it should be 100ohm for the seried LED and 470 for the lone LED, this would provide 6mA of power to every LED, which you've seen in my pics



Yes, that would work, but is it easier?
First of all: I hate desoldering
secondly, those pads are tiny, and with the soldering I have I don't think I would be able to accurately solder wires to thsoe pads even after I remove the


I believe you just answered your own question

yea your plan for the teensy usb seems fine

no that question was to lister.

I tested and retested before ordering the board as I have a metal space bar (which mean contact of any short = bad) I've already assembled the board, using it for the past week and half and i yet to have any issues with shorting out.
I planned it to sit at the same height as the plate (if there will be any) and the USB section would be under the switch.

There is going to be an issue for those who are going to be using the filco/leo hybrid space bar, as the USB will be directly under the leo-MX switch thingy.

edit: Oh, and I bottom out all the time... especially when i'm mad

what if I were to get cherry stabilizers which would take a leopold spacebar would that work?

[ishtob]

no, the filco sized stabilizers gives just enough room for a cut-usb and teensy to fit with the teensy board to just touch the space bar switch (in the groove where the plate should be if i had one)

leo stabs would not leave enough room for the usb, it would still be possible for you to do the desolder usb head trick, but I would also need to move the hole where the wires from the usb goes.... since it will be directly under the stab.

[TheProfosist]

no, the filco sized stabilizers gives just enough room for a cut-usb and teensy to fit with the teensy board to just touch the space bar switch (in the groove where the plate should be if i had one)

leo stabs would not leave enough room for the usb, it would still be possible for you to do the desolder usb head trick, but I would also need to move the hole where the wires from the usb goes.... since it will be directly under the stab.

the reason why I brought this up is we currenly dont have source for costar/filco stabilizer. WASD might be stocking them but I dont want to count on it as it not a definite thing

also I plan to pick up these for my dox since standard keys will now fit red (at least I think thats whats in the pic) look rather nice. did you happen to see any of those that are withing the specifications we need. Also any recommended places to look for leds?

when do you plan on ordering your switches and what kind? I might be in for some for the dox since the Phantom buy is going to take a while.

[ishtob]

I've been ordering them from onlinecomponents:
plate mount

PCB mount

These dont come with the metal bar so I've been making my own from a 1/16inch stainless steel rod

[ishtob]

Red LED will work, they operate at 2.1-2.5V which is very similar to the 2.2-2.7 of the orange

[bloodygood]

WASD already does sell the stabilizer bars http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/keyboard-parts-1.html And the plan he said was to get them in this December/January. Remember he already uses costar for his keyboards so he definitely has access to them he just hasn't made them available for purchase separately yet.

[TheProfosist]

I've been ordering them from onlinecomponents:
plate mount

PCB mount

These dont come with the metal bar so I've been making my own from a 1/16inch stainless steel rod

those look like Cherry/Leopold to me but if you cutting your own wire it would matter. You can get the wire for the Costar/Filco ones from WASD but i dont think those would work with cherry (though i have never tried).

Red LED will work, they operate at 2.1-2.5V which is very similar to the 2.2-2.7 of the orange

alright, otherwise you can look ast mouser idk what they have to offer but i know the have switches and stabilizers as well.

WASD already does sell the stabilizer bars http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/keyboard-parts-1.html And the plan he said was to get them in this December/January. Remember he already uses costar for his keyboards so he definitely has access to them he just hasn't made them available for purchase separately yet.

ill go post in his subforum and find out for sure.

[bloodygood]

ill go post in his subforum and find out for sure.

This was the thread I am referring to
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?23681-costar-stabilizers
In fact you posted in that very thread, so instead of starting a new one perhaps give it a bump and a request for an update on the ETA.

And now I am heading to bed, have to wake up my girlfriend in 3 and a half hours.

[TheProfosist]

This was the thread I am referring to
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?23681-costar-stabilizers
In fact you posted in that very thread, so instead of starting a new one perhaps give it a bump and a request for an update on the ETA.

done

[TheProfosist]

Finalized my layout:


Default Layer


Layer 1


Layer 2


Layer 3



Fn 2 toggles layer 2 and Fn 3 toggles layer 3.

[ishtob]

no offense, but part of your layout doesnt make sense, you have 1 FN key to trigger layer 1, how do you expect to trigger layer 2 or 3? press 2 keys down at the same time? it seems inconvenient and cluncky, and more importantly I'm not sure if the firmware supports that, the FN layers might conflict since soon as you press FN2 or 3 layer 1 stops, and that stops the FN1 on layer 1, which would then stop FN2 or 3, leaving those 2 layer still unusable

[TheProfosist]

no offense, but part of your layout doesnt make sense, you have 1 FN key to trigger layer 1, how do you expect to trigger layer 2 or 3? press 2 keys down at the same time? it seems inconvenient and cluncky, and more importantly I'm not sure if the firmware supports that, the FN layers might conflict since soon as you press FN2 or 3 layer 1 stops, and that stops the FN1 on layer 1, which would then stop FN2 or 3, leaving those 2 layer still unusable

Well I created the layer for just the Fn layer 2 which really isnt needed as it just creates a second Fn key i would always be using this so no need and I shall eliminate it. Then all it would be is you hold Fn and you have access to layer 1. I also have it set that if you hold Fn and hit Fn 3 it toggles layer 3 on or off. This would hopefully still allow you to hold Fn and have access to layer one. I hope this would be available. If not I wont be too heartbroken for the DOX it will throw my Phantom design into a bind though.

They started talking about programming NKRO for the Phantom, it may help with the firmware for the DOX. http://tinyurl.com/85bwn3e

[ishtob]

last I checked DOX had 6KRO over USB, and I dont think the current firmware supports toggling of layers, they only stay on as long as you have the FN key held

Don't get me wrong, I would love to be able to toggle between layers, I just dont have the proficiency in C to modify or add to the main body of the firmware.

[ishtob]

I will take a look athe codes for the phantom and see what I can do though

[ishtob]

either way I'm almost done putting together your firmware from modifying hasu and dox's keymaps

[TheProfosist]

either way I'm almost done putting together your firmware from modifying hasu and dox's keymaps

thanks much you just doing layer one then right? by default just make right shift Fn cause I dont use it for shift anyway.

Hmm there is probably a way to do toggling layers we would need someone who is versed in C and would be better if the worked with a teensy before

[ishtob]

sure thing, we can do that until we get get the FN layer toggle figured out, its not like you cant re-flash the teensy as you see if anyways

[ishtob]

ahh shoot, I forgot to bring my keycap puller with me, I'll have to wait to test out your firmware after I get home, later this evening.

[TheProfosist]

sure thing, we can do that until we get get the FN layer toggle figured out, its not like you cant re-flash the teensy as you see if anyways

Yes hopefully once the base firmware for Phantom is worked on more Ill see if a toggleable layer is possible or if that function can be worked in.

ahh shoot, I forgot to bring my keycap puller with me, I'll have to wait to test out your firmware after I get home, later this evening.

No problem its not like im completely in a hurry we still have a few things that need to be figured out before I plan on ordering.

[bloodygood]

Or you could go with the original idea I came up with for the Fn layer.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?23453-Ordering-from-onlinecomponents&p=445194&viewfull=1#post445194 (more pictures, not mine, from another member who purchased the keyswitch)
It costs about 11.32 each, plate mounted. But I only purchased one for my left Fn key as the right one will be used as a hold down temporary Fn switch, the left one can be toggled to stay on until pressed again. To me, definitely worth it. Also thinking about getting another one for one of my left shift key as I use the right one far more often. I prefer having shift lock instead of caps lock because shift + keys does more than caps lock + keys.

[TheProfosist]

Thosee would be perfect for the phantom I had 2 keys doing nothing now with those I could toggle layer though I  doubt you could toggle 2 at the same time.

[ishtob]

woa.. where would we get a hold of that switch?

[bloodygood]

woa.. where would we get a hold of that switch?

Sorry about that, it was on the first page of the thread I linked to, I forgot to actually link it here also
http://www.onlinecomponents.com/cherry-electrical_mx1a31nn.html?p=11075424 This is it, as I said I have purchased it from here with no problem

[TheProfosist]

might put 4 on my Phantom shift locks and layer toggles. does online components have better prices on other items than mouser?

also ishtop your going to put another DOX together right? mind doing a step by step of just a instructions on the basics of putting it together.