Keycap Flocking Experiment

[ITzNybble]

Science! I love it!

[AGmurdercore]

I REALLY want to feel this caps. Can i get any?

I could send you some, but I'm not as proud of them as I would like to be. I'm going to send out a BS spacebar and a few of the better BS keycaps that I flocked to Ray, and I'm going to send Boiler the fully flocked keycap for now, no charge because I don't think they're as good as they could be just yet. I could send you some BS keycaps, but like I said, they're not great. If you try to rip off the undercoating that holds the flocking, say, with a fingernail, you can.

Here's one of the BS keycaps that I was able to strip of it's flocking:

(Attachment Link)

This section of flocking I removed from the keycap with my fingernail. The BS keycaps I have are unprimed, and that was a mistake. But they do feel pretty good. Also, check out the bottom edge of the same keycap, from a different angle:

(Attachment Link)

Ragged edge looks crappy. Had these keycaps been primed, the edges would have been better. I was so excited, you see, to flock that I went nuts, and didn't prepare properly. If all this is acceptable to you, then yeah, I can send you some. But you've been warned.

I have no intentions of removing the flock with my fingernails to be honest, so i will be honored if you can toss any keys my way. ^^

[Krogenar]

AGmurdercore, Ray and Boiler,

I was slammed pretty hard at work this week, so I haven't been able to ship anything out yet. I did, however, grade all the keycaps, and I'm going to ship this weekend for sure. AGmurdercore, I am not sure I want to ship internationally. PM me your ship to address and I'll check at the post office.

After grading them, I found that some of them were actually not so bad in terms of coverage.

Sorry for the delay.

[Krogenar]

EDIT: Sending the keys to Boiler and Ray today by FedEx ground. PMs sent, would appreciate if you could cover shipping. I just wrapped them twice in bubble wrap, and put them in the smallest boxes I had on hand.

Also, I have a bunch of BS spacebars and DCS keycaps that I plan on flocking very, very soon.

[i3oilermaker]

Paid Shipping - Excited to see results!

[damorgue]

How does the flocked translucent cap look with a LED underneath?

[Krogenar]

How does the flocked translucent cap look with a LED underneath?

Good question. The one DCS that turned out well is on its way to Boiler ... My guess is that the primer will block most of the light. And the adhesive above that is black, so probably zero.

[Krogenar]

UPDATE: I flocked four keycaps today using the electrostatic method tonight.

I did a DCS keycap and spacebar, and a BS spacebar and keycap. Here's what's different from my last two experiments:

1. Masked the bottoms of the keys to protect against excess coating. (Actually did this for second round, but clumsily.)
2. Primed! (Using the Duplicolor Adhesion Promoter suggested by Photoelectric)
3. Electrostatically flocked.
4. Full coverage on keycaps, no partial flocking this time around. (I'm not flocking around.)

Each keycap had to be on its own cardboard skid because the electrostatic method requires that the grounding pin be inserted in the coating itself. I couldn't coat them all at once because I couldn't ground all the keycap coatings simultaneously. (Although I may commandeer my wife's cookie drying rack, maybe I can rig it up as a larger grounding surface?) So each keycap had it's own little cardboard carrier. I used a pencil to mount the pin, so I could manipulate it better when touching it against the keycap. When I was flocking, it didn't really look very different from the 'puffing' method, but when I 'dusted' the flocking fibers from a decent height (8") they did seem to land on the keycaps with more accuracy than I would attribute to chance, so I think it worked. When I was done, I got a nice spark afterwards, so I know there was a potential being created.

 I hope:

1. The primer will work.
2. The coverage will be more even (no more shallow spots, or less frequent) - electrostatic should help in this area.
3. Deeper penetration (shut up) since instead of the fibers just being 'thrown' at the coating (puffing method) they are now drawn to it.
4. Better coverage on the edges, again, having the fibers drawn to all surfaces electrostatically should improve edge coverage.

If it all works out, then I'll be flocking a case very soon! Boiler and Ray should be getting their keycaps sometime tomorrow -- I'm excited to get a second opinion.

[Krogenar]

A photo of my two new flocking fiber colors:

[Krogenar]

Here are my four 'skids' 24 hours post-flocking. I've very lightly shaken off any excess flock and brought them indoors to cure more completely.

[SpAmRaY]

A photo of my two new flocking fiber colors:

(Attachment Link)

All I can think seeing those colors is a joker inspired faux suede keyboard

[Binge]

how suede-like are these SpAmRaY?

[SpAmRaY]

how suede-like are these SpAmRaY?

I'm poor at explaining things but to me it's like tactile suede. In other words suede with the feels. It's like a cross between microfiber and suede. Very soft but you still get the nice 'tiny hair' feel of the fibers.

If flock could be combined with the hair/beard etc on binge caps there would be so much awesome I think it might create a black hole  (specifically in my wallet)

[i3oilermaker]

Krogenar is a wizard!

I got some flocked keys yesterday and they look and feel awesome.  I am taking one for a test drive today and will post more comments later.

[Krogenar]

If flock could be combined with the hair/beard etc on binge caps there would be so much awesome I think it might create a black hole  (specifically in my wallet)

I would love to flock the sideburns or eyebrows of a Bingecap! The pile on these is very small, so if we do an afro, it's got to be a tight afro. You know, just in case we do an Bingecap with an afro.

[Krogenar]

How does the flocked translucent cap look with a LED underneath?

This is my third batch, the DCS keycap, which was translucent, with black flocking on my Ducky:



You'll notice the edges are where most of the light comes through. Looking straight down at the keycap and you can make out the edges as well, but in the flatter areas the flock blocks the light. The primer I used for this batch is clear, so the light can come through.

[damorgue]

Are there more translucent flocking fibers available? Something like small strands of nylon fibers or such?

[Krogenar]

Are there more translucent flocking fibers available? Something like small strands of nylon fibers or such?

There are white flocking fibers, but I have not encountered clear flock -- that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, though. These fibers are rayon, which is best used indoors. There are nylon fibers, which are more durable, and might have more of a sheen to them, if that's what we're after. The undercoatings that I'm using are matched to the color of the flock, and it is available in a clear form, so maybe clear fibers could be made.

[Krogenar]

Mixed results on batch three. My DCS spacebar looks good, feels good (I can feel the 'pile' on the top) but I got the wrong damn size!



Krog: "FFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUU---"

Ok, so the others I have not yet flocked are most likely useless anyway. *sigh* Who uses 6-unit spacebars anyway?
Also, five days post flocking, I can peel up the edge of the flocking with a fingernail. I'm going to wait another two days and continue to test this spacebar -- maybe I didn't prime evenly? I don't think so. Maybe it needed even more time to cure? Possibly. If this primer didn't work, I'll go back to my previous primer, which did work, but had to be applied by brush.

Some photos:


See, I could rip that off with my fingernail. Failure of the primer, or I didn't wait long enough for undercoat to cure. Feels slightly tacky to the touch. I will wait a few more days and try again to remove the flocking some more, or from another area of the spacebar.


Looks and feels promising, but not perfect yet. Still some more shallow areas of flocking, but seems better than my first few attempts. Maybe the electrostatic didn't work as well as I hoped?


The spacebar, with a similarly flocked DCS keycap on the ESC key.

[SpAmRaY]

Do you think it would make a difference if you lightly sanded the surface of the key cap before priming? (Or maybe you already did that, I don't always read everything)

[Krogenar]

Do you think it would make a difference if you lightly sanded the surface of the key cap before priming? (Or maybe you already did that, I don't always read everything)

I think that could be a possibility because my BS spacebars seem great on the surface, and I noticed that the surface of the BS spacebar is textured. The undercoating for the DCS was still slightly tacky. I did not sand any of the keys, ever, Ray. But maybe I should. I'll give that a try next. How's your spacebar holding up? I was happily typing away on this one, and it felt very weird, and then I noticed I got the size wrong! Grrr... I'm retarded.

[SpAmRaY]

I like it. It is very smoooooth. And just the fact its a little different provides something other than the norm.

I'lll be sending my keys in two different direction soon so others can try them out!!

[Krogenar]

Well some updates -- the BS spacebar came out great! It's very full, even -- but when placed on my Model M (silver label) the extra full flock on the sides interferes with the spacebar's operation! Also, it seems that the primer didn't work as well as I hoped. So I'm going to try some spacebars (BS only) with some sanding, then my original brushed on primer (2 coats) and I will attempt to do a 'hat' for the spacebar. I think just a shade less than half of the cap will allow for actuation.

The DCS 1-unit key seems the best of the bunch so far, although I think the primer issue will be present. It's not so bad really, so long as you don't actively try to rip off the flocking.

[Krogenar]

I've got two BS spacebars, 2 DCS 1-units, and 5 BS 1-units ready for flocking tonight. I did some thinking about the BS spacebars (I'm leaving aside DCS spacebars until I get some 6.25 units available to me) and I think I have a solution to the activation issue: the backside of the BS spacebar will only have flocking at the top third of the keycap, the sides will be flocked 50% at a nearly 45-degree angle, and the top and front will be fully flocked.

Also, as suggested by Ray and others, the keycaps are sanded before priming (primer does seem to adhere better). I'm also going back to my original brush on primer.

I'm also trying to figure out the best way to ground the keycaps during flocking, without leaving a slight indentation in the surface. Maybe I can ground them from the backside, where it won't matter? Still thinking about it.

[Krogenar]

Flocked "Batch 4" keycaps last night, and will provide some photos tonight after I release some of the excess flock from them. This time around there are two new colors! One is a sage sort of green (I really liked the way the keycaps looked), some black, and a mixture of the two. So I've got one sage-colored spacebar (it's a pale green) and gray/green spacebar. I've got a combination of those colors in 2 DCS single units, and 5 BS single units.

The single units I think may only work properly for ESC key locations -- but at least I'll be able to test them out on a function row to see if that's so. When I flocked these keys, my electrostatic tool was working perfectly. In fact, I felt the static electricity on my forearms, my face, everywhere -- and by the time it was over I was covered in flocking fibers.

Tonight I'll remove the excess flocking, and remove the masking from the spacebars (fingers crossed) and bring the keys in from my cold garage.

Photos to follow.

[SpAmRaY]

When I flocked these keys, my electrostatic tool was working perfectly. In fact, I felt the static electricity on my forearms, my face, everywhere -- and by the time it was over I was covered in flocking fibers.

just think of the halloween costumes you could pull off hahaha

[Krogenar]

When I flocked these keys, my electrostatic tool was working perfectly. In fact, I felt the static electricity on my forearms, my face, everywhere -- and by the time it was over I was covered in flocking fibers.

just think of the halloween costumes you could pull off hahaha

If I can get longer flock, with brown and black coloring -- The Wookie Keycap

[SpAmRaY]

When I flocked these keys, my electrostatic tool was working perfectly. In fact, I felt the static electricity on my forearms, my face, everywhere -- and by the time it was over I was covered in flocking fibers.

just think of the halloween costumes you could pull off hahaha

If I can get longer flock, with brown and black coloring -- The Wookie Keycap

don't tease like that bro.....that would be an awesome keychain cap

[Krogenar]

If I can get longer flock, with brown and black coloring -- The Wookie Keycap

don't tease like that bro.....that would be an awesome keychain cap

Paint a bandolier on it, then flock around it ... WRAR!!!!

[MOZ]

What if Binge caps were flocked? Image the bear or WASDson!

[Krogenar]

Ok, photo time.



These are my two newest spacebars (BS) and I'm very pleased with them. Here's a closeup:

[ Specified attachment is not available ]

[Krogenar]

Also, my actuation issue may be solved with this experimental batch:



The edges are nice and clean, and because the flocking only covers maybe the top third of the backside of the keycap, actuation of the keycap shouldn't be a problem anymore -- no matter how luxuriously thick and rich the flocking might be! I'm going to go ahead and allow myself a mwuh-hahaha, just for a bit.

[Krogenar]

And my singlestons. More about them later.

[SpAmRaY]

Looking really good!

[Krogenar]

Looking really good!

Thanks Ray.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

I keep forgetting and rediscovering this thread.

And I keep getting desperate for a batch. I think these would look VERY good in DSA profile.
Also, I'd love to see transparent keycap, white adhesive, LED under it (for a more evenly diffused light, shouldn't show off the edges as much)

If I sent you some DSA caps, would you sand 'em and flock em up? See how the come out in spherical?

[SpAmRaY]

I keep forgetting and rediscovering this thread.

And I keep getting desperate for a batch. I think these would look VERY good in DSA profile.
Also, I'd love to see transparent keycap, white adhesive, LED under it (for a more evenly diffused light, shouldn't show off the edges as much)

If I sent you some DSA caps, would you sand 'em and flock em up? See how the come out in spherical?

I can send him some, I've got a pile of red and blue DSA caps from my crap bag that aren't going to be good for anything else!

[CalmB4tehPwn]

I keep forgetting and rediscovering this thread.

And I keep getting desperate for a batch. I think these would look VERY good in DSA profile.
Also, I'd love to see transparent keycap, white adhesive, LED under it (for a more evenly diffused light, shouldn't show off the edges as much)

If I sent you some DSA caps, would you sand 'em and flock em up? See how the come out in spherical?

I can send him some, I've got a pile of red and blue DSA caps from my crap bag that aren't going to be good for anything else!

Oh, I totally meant SA profile. FML.

Somebody (I, unfortunately, do not remember who to thank for this) hooked me up with about 15 SA profile caps from their crap bag.
Maybe it was you, Ray.

I'm definitely keeping a select few, but the rest are no use for me to keep, so I'd happily send out 10 or so.

[SpAmRaY]

I keep forgetting and rediscovering this thread.

And I keep getting desperate for a batch. I think these would look VERY good in DSA profile.
Also, I'd love to see transparent keycap, white adhesive, LED under it (for a more evenly diffused light, shouldn't show off the edges as much)

If I sent you some DSA caps, would you sand 'em and flock em up? See how the come out in spherical?

I can send him some, I've got a pile of red and blue DSA caps from my crap bag that aren't going to be good for anything else!

Oh, I totally meant SA profile. FML.

Somebody (I, unfortunately, do not remember who to thank for this) hooked me up with about 15 SA profile caps from their crap bag.
Maybe it was you, Ray.

I'm definitely keeping a select few, but the rest are no use for me to keep, so I'd happily send out 10 or so.

Yes I sent those! When did you get them? Just curious to see how long shipping takes?

I'm sure they were very random I mainly just wanted you to be able to observe SA profile in person in a few different colors.

I can also send Krog some SA crap bag caps as well!

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Luckily, my mail dude has to put his pickup date on everything he picks up from post. They came in on 11 Sep 2013. I just forgot who sent 'em, so I couldn't thank you!

So,
THANK YOU

[Krogenar]

I keep forgetting and rediscovering this thread.

And I keep getting desperate for a batch. I think these would look VERY good in DSA profile.
Also, I'd love to see transparent keycap, white adhesive, LED under it (for a more evenly diffused light, shouldn't show off the edges as much)

If I sent you some DSA caps, would you sand 'em and flock em up? See how the come out in spherical?

I can send him some, I've got a pile of red and blue DSA caps from my crap bag that aren't going to be good for anything else!

I keep forgetting and rediscovering this thread.

I'm gonna get huffy real soon.

And I keep getting desperate for a batch. I think these would look VERY good in DSA profile.
Also, I'd love to see transparent keycap, white adhesive, LED under it (for a more evenly diffused light, shouldn't show off the edges as much)

Well, for a clear keycap, it gets the white primer, and then over that there's an adhesive matched to the color of the flocking, so I don't know how much will come through -- but I imagine some light would make it. As for the edges showing less ... I don't know, it seems that the flocking always is a bit thinner at the base of the cap. It doesn't matter what flocking method I use. It's not noticeable unless the undercoating is a different color (visible in the singletons picture I recently posted) ... or if it's lit from behind! The white primer is just a single layer for the latest batch. I'm thinking of starting an IC for my earlier batches, to finance some more flocking.

If I sent you some DSA caps, would you sand 'em and flock em up? See how the come out in spherical?

Sure, send me a single unit and spacebar from DSA and SA profiles, and I'll try it. Maybe the DSA singletons won't have an actuation issue? Would you mind if I charged you, say, $5 to flock them? The DSA profile doesn't have that high wall at the back of the key that was a problem with the BS singletons. I'll be able to test DCS singletons next to each other by the weekend, to see if there's a problem. For BS singletons I don't think it would be possible without some very tedious masking.

[Krogenar]

I confirmed this morning that the flocked BS spacebars now actuate without any problems. I need to get some DCS and DSA spacebars made up, but right now SP doesn't appear to have any 6.2 units in stock.

EDIT: Here are three keycaps from the fourth batch. The middle key has black flocking over light green adhesive -- that's why it's a bit weird. The far right one is from the third batch.

[Krogenar]

I'm pretty happy with my latest batch of keycaps and spacebars! One of the singletons actually was hand-washed by accident, and it was just fine -- maybe even a little bit 'fluffier' for its little adventure. I'll post more by the end of the week.

[Krogenar]

Batch #5 is:

5 - BS spacebars
18 - BS single units
4 - DCS single units

I spent last night taping and sanding and priming this next batch. It's not my largest batch to date (that was the first, flawed "bathmat" batch) but it's a lot of work, and think these are better. First, everything gets a wash, then when dry I tape the spacebars, then sand the exposed areas, then mount them on their cardboard skids. The single units get sanded on all sides (surface is textured already, so not needed) along with the edges and corners, very lightly.



After sanding everything gets a rubdown with a moistened paper towel, then a quick dry, and then I mount them to their skids. The spacebars all get their own skid, but I put multiple single units on a skid. This makes priming and flocking them a lot easier, because you don't have to touch the keycaps, you can just manipulate the cardboard.

I notice some other people paint keycaps -- how do you make the keycap stationary while painting?

When it's time for flocking, the spacebars stay on their skids, but the singletons I cut apart. I do one at a time; coat it with the adhesive, and then electrostatically flock, then set aside. That's for tonight. My breakdown is going to be two black spacebars, one sage green, and two in the magenta color, then six BS singletons of each color, and the four DCS will all be the magenta.

[Krogenar]

Flocked everything I had last night -- but all of it was flocked in the magenta flocking color because it looked great to me. Pics in a few days.

[i3oilermaker]

I have to say, I have been loving my flocked key...it is holding up well and feels oh so nice to press!

[Krogenar]

I have to say, I have been loving my flocked key...it is holding up well and feels oh so nice to press!

Glad to hear it Boiler! On my Model M, with a flocked spacebar, I don't even usually notice it's flocked... until I stroke the spacebar, ever so gently.

Is that weird? Yeah... yeah it is. Luckily, I don't care.

I realize the BS market is ... somewhat small. After this batch I'm going to focus exclusively on DCS profile stuff. I'm very curious to see if they will work side-by-side on a 'board, or if I'm going to have to try to flock them only partially.

EDIT: In the next week or so I'll be attempting to make a flocked mod set -- spacebar, shift keys, etc. for DCS.

[Krogenar]

Ok, presenting Batch 5:

[rowdy]

^ like velvet

[SpAmRaY]

Ok, presenting Batch 5:

That is hot!