Author Topic: [IC] KAM Wraith  (Read 103103 times)

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Offline danieljgrouse

  • Posts: 53
Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #350 on: Tue, 17 December 2019, 02:36:59 »
I think most people do choose one, but you still need a cap for the other key and for most people a second B is the most aesthetically acceptable option.

Offline piit79

  • Posts: 356
Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #351 on: Tue, 17 December 2019, 02:38:15 »

people using both hands for b... just choose one ffs

I wonder if people actually do that or if that's just an Alice meme. I also think one of the keys could be put to a much bettet use ;)

However, I also think there is absolutely no need for such strong language. Different people have very different preferences and we should all accept that.

Offline biip

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #352 on: Tue, 17 December 2019, 02:41:00 »
update!

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I'll have the retail prices very soon, but as mentioned the price of the base kit should not exceed $100.
The Group Buy will be around mid-January, I'll post the final date when it gets confirmed by all the vendors :thumb:

Any chance of an extra 'b' key in the spacebars kit for Alice boards?

Nope sorry, I want to lower the cost of the kit(s) and IMO a second B isn't essential.

update!

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I'll have the retail prices very soon, but as mentioned the price of the base kit should not exceed $100.
The Group Buy will be around mid-January, I'll post the final date when it gets confirmed by all the vendors :thumb:

Could you add the tertiary characters to the int 7,8,9,0, < and ß keys? They're not needed a lot but are important.

Those legends would have to be placed on top-right and this is the current location of the original functions of the ZX Spectrum, resulting in a potential visual conflict IMO.

Offline nicolaidavies

  • Posts: 19
Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics + kits update)
« Reply #353 on: Tue, 17 December 2019, 04:39:59 »
Any chance of an extra 'b' key in the spacebars kit for Alice boards?
😠😠😠😠
people using both hands for b... just choose one ffs

It's purely for aesthetics ;)

Offline danieljgrouse

  • Posts: 53
Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #354 on: Tue, 17 December 2019, 05:20:25 »
Luckily KAM is a flat profile and you should have plenty of 1u keys left over to put there in place of the extra B. It won't look perfect, but let's be honest, having two Bs on your keyboard doesn't really look perfect in the first place.

Offline harlekein

  • Posts: 461
Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #355 on: Tue, 17 December 2019, 06:42:34 »
I think it would help to keep 40s in base, but put ortho coverage in ergo. That means all sorts of ortho layouts are covered with that one, including boardwalk.

Still very much on the fence on this one. I love the idea and look so far, but not a big fan of uniform proflies. This will depend on the price point for me.
« Last Edit: Tue, 17 December 2019, 06:45:55 by harlekein »

Offline harlekein

  • Posts: 461
Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #356 on: Tue, 17 December 2019, 06:44:01 »
Luckily KAM is a flat profile and you should have plenty of 1u keys left over to put there in place of the extra B. It won't look perfect, but let's be honest, having two Bs on your keyboard doesn't really look perfect in the first place.

It sure doesn't, but that's the meme people have grown used to.

Offline shensmobile

  • Posts: 95
Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #357 on: Tue, 17 December 2019, 11:57:30 »
Hey biip,

Love the kits!  I only have one comment to add.  For the Ergo kit, is there any chance to get some blanks, or at least 2x2u blank spacebars?  I know for Boardrun/Boardwalk users, those 2u spacebars would be incredibly handy.  The text on the spacebar is awesome but since Boardwalks use horizontal spacebars, the text would look out of place.  It's nice that there are 2x2u spacebars in the spacebar kit but it would be awesome to have a proper set of spacebars for us Boardwalkers and Boardrunners :)

Offline andtar2

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics + kits update)
« Reply #358 on: Tue, 17 December 2019, 15:39:26 »

intl-kit (basically NorDeUkFr)
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I think there is one key missing in Intl-kit: "- _" (it was in the original kit design).

There is also a "¨ >" that I think supposed to be "¨ ^"

Offline Rayndalf

  • Posts: 466
Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #359 on: Tue, 17 December 2019, 15:49:35 »
Hey biip,

Love the kits!  I only have one comment to add.  For the Ergo kit, is there any chance to get some blanks, or at least 2x2u blank spacebars?  I know for Boardrun/Boardwalk users, those 2u spacebars would be incredibly handy.  The text on the spacebar is awesome but since Boardwalks use horizontal spacebars, the text would look out of place.  It's nice that there are 2x2u spacebars in the spacebar kit but it would be awesome to have a proper set of spacebars for us Boardwalkers and Boardrunners :)
+1
I'd guess close to a third of ergo kits sold recently end up on boardwalks

Offline biip

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #360 on: Wed, 18 December 2019, 07:46:23 »
update




Offline Senor Coconut

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #361 on: Wed, 18 December 2019, 16:14:36 »
 :llama:
,,,

Offline geekit

  • Posts: 64
Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #362 on: Wed, 18 December 2019, 21:54:27 »
Nice but at the same time I somehow miss the shiny KAM LOL.

Offline Robosculpts

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #363 on: Wed, 18 December 2019, 22:13:25 »
Thoughts on adding back raise and lower keys for ortho? There's not really a good substitute for them.

Please this. Was thinking about using the white w/ the up arrow and Yellow w/ the down arrow but you originally had the lower and raise keys in the first ortho kit. Those keys should be included in the ergo set as well. Please.

Offline scoopbb

  • Posts: 239
Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #364 on: Wed, 18 December 2019, 23:07:23 »
Thoughts on adding back raise and lower keys for ortho? There's not really a good substitute for them.

Please this. Was thinking about using the white w/ the up arrow and Yellow w/ the down arrow but you originally had the lower and raise keys in the first ortho kit. Those keys should be included in the ergo set as well. Please.

in base at least please

Offline biip

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #365 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 02:26:11 »
Thoughts on adding back raise and lower keys for ortho? There's not really a good substitute for them.

Please this. Was thinking about using the white w/ the up arrow and Yellow w/ the down arrow but you originally had the lower and raise keys in the first ortho kit. Those keys should be included in the ergo set as well. Please.

Then I'd probably remove the 2x blank 1U.

« Last Edit: Thu, 19 December 2019, 02:47:50 by biip »

Offline nicolaidavies

  • Posts: 19
Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #366 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 02:57:46 »
Thoughts on adding back raise and lower keys for ortho? There's not really a good substitute for them.

Please this. Was thinking about using the white w/ the up arrow and Yellow w/ the down arrow but you originally had the lower and raise keys in the first ortho kit. Those keys should be included in the ergo set as well. Please.

Then I'd probably remove the 2x blank 1U.

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Could you then add a blank 1U to the spacebar kit for Alice support?

Offline piit79

  • Posts: 356
Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #367 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 03:22:55 »
Then I'd probably remove the 2x blank 1U.

Well that would work for me, but it would be selfish - the 2x 1u keys are needed for grid layout and split ortho boards. Perhaps move those keys to the Spacebar kit?

Or just keep the kits as they are now. For me the WHITE/YELLOW keys with up/down arrows are good for lower/raise.

Offline jazzjarred

  • Posts: 18
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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #368 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 03:28:48 »
yeah the 2x blank 1u's are needed for full grid ortho, if taken away from the base they would have to be in the spacebar kit.

Offline fouras

  • Posts: 47
Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #369 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 03:53:02 »
Thoughts on adding back raise and lower keys for ortho? There's not really a good substitute for them.

Please this. Was thinking about using the white w/ the up arrow and Yellow w/ the down arrow but you originally had the lower and raise keys in the first ortho kit. Those keys should be included in the ergo set as well. Please.

Then I'd probably remove the 2x blank 1U.

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What about removing a 1u control "Rnd/Merge" and a 1u function "Extend Mode" instead? I can't think of a board that uses two of either of those.

Offline biip

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #370 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 04:07:03 »
2x blanks or Lower/Raise.
One or the other  :rolleyes:

Offline Loligagger

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #371 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 04:30:51 »
Just thinking out loud with a low effort shoop.

232129-0

Offline biip

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #372 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 04:40:14 »
Just thinking out loud with a low effort shoop.

(Attachment Link)

I'd be ok to get rid of the extra 1.5 mods if that lower the cost.
Also, your layout creates duplicates though.
« Last Edit: Thu, 19 December 2019, 04:45:57 by biip »

Offline biip

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #373 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 05:18:35 »






would that work?

Offline audiosl4ve

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #374 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 05:25:32 »
those kits are awesome. Love base kit choices  :thumb:

Offline biip

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #375 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 05:26:34 »
Also planing to do deskmats…


Offline jazzjarred

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #376 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 05:27:11 »
I'm ok because I'm in for many kits, but for ortho is 2u space really more popular than grid 2x 1u?

Offline audiosl4ve

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #377 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 05:27:54 »
I'm ok because I'm in for many kits, but for ortho is 2u space really more popular than grid 2x 1u?

i think it is honestly

Offline Robosculpts

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #378 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 05:32:33 »
That's awesome biip. Thank you kindly!

Offline biip

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #379 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 05:33:30 »
I'm ok because I'm in for many kits, but for ortho is 2u space really more popular than grid 2x 1u?

I think so ;)

Offline piit79

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #380 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 05:38:18 »
Also planing to do deskmats…

Sweet! Definitely in for a deskmat as well.

Offline jazzjarred

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #381 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 05:50:50 »
I'm happy with these kits now as a planck / 40s user. Also in for a deskmat :)

Offline phunktional

  • Posts: 78
[IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #382 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 06:08:33 »
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would that work?
Planck with grid layout would require 3 kits.

Edit: Never mind, I see lower/raise is also in the base kit.
« Last Edit: Thu, 19 December 2019, 06:13:03 by phunktional »

Offline stoffelduss

  • Posts: 190
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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #383 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 06:39:05 »
Definitely not a fan of removing the blanks for explicitly "raise" and "lower" labelled keys. I think the ortho users here shot themselves in the foot a bit, just using some other mod key for raise/lower would have been the far superior choice over making this more expensive for grid users. The magenta/true vid and green/inv vid keys for example would have been perfectly fine choices of keys there, and I don't see the necessity of explicit lower/raise keys when not even ctrl can be found in this set.

If the raise/lower keys are kept, I would like to mention that I don't like the arrow sublegend on them. One reason for that being that raise is often placed right next to real arrows, which use the same symbol. Also, the inspiration is very light on symbols as legends, only using them for the arrows.
Choosing different sublegends from the inspiration, I'd say red 'over' for raise and red 'inverse' for lower would look cool. I'd also prefer "raise mode" and "lower mode", like extend mode, or simply white centered raise and lower on its own like print etc currently look.

To talk about something else (not really, it's still legends lol), as someone who would probably use this on a 65% or something of similar size, I wish I would get more of the special legends from the inspiration. In fact, I don't understand why there must be a 1:1 relation between "real" legends like control and their "translation" in this keyset, meaning there are 2 peek/out keys of each size that stand for the control keys. Does including duplicates somehow make the production cheaper?
I think the current solution is very not-fish-not-meat, where you're clearly trying to put as many accurate legends in their correct positions which I think is good, but where you're also doing stuff like defining peek as the accurate legend for control which I find a bit arbitrary. The reason I don't like it is because it results in this out/in, in/something/out pattern. I think legends that, on a modern keyboard, don't mean anything shouldn't be repeated.
I think a good solution would be to instead introduce all the modern bottom row legends as the top legend, so that a set of 1.25u bottom row mods would read something like control/code/alt/break space/alt graph./code/control, and to then use more non-repeated special sublegends for the red text below that.

Sorry for writing so much critical feedback, but it was stuff I wanted to mention. Hope you consider it!

Offline fouras

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #384 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 06:56:46 »
Definitely not a fan of removing the blanks for explicitly "raise" and "lower" labelled keys. I think the ortho users here shot themselves in the foot a bit, just using some other mod key for raise/lower would have been the far superior choice over making this more expensive for grid users. The magenta/true vid and green/inv vid keys for example would have been perfectly fine choices of keys there, and I don't see the necessity of explicit lower/raise keys when not even ctrl can be found in this set.

I'd rather pay a little more to get everything I want than not be able to get it at all.

If the raise/lower keys are kept, I would like to mention that I don't like the arrow sublegend on them. One reason for that being that raise is often placed right next to real arrows, which use the same symbol. Also, the inspiration is very light on symbols as legends, only using them for the arrows.
Choosing different sublegends from the inspiration, I'd say red 'over' for raise and red 'inverse' for lower would look cool. I'd also prefer "raise mode" and "lower mode", like extend mode, or simply white centered raise and lower on its own like print etc currently look.

I agree with this though. Something different than the arrow sublegends would be nice.

Offline biip

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #385 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 07:27:02 »
Finally went for the same look as print, lock & pause.




Offline Robosculpts

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #386 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 07:45:04 »
The blanks were not removed though.

Offline biip

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #387 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 07:49:41 »
The blanks were not removed though.

There are 2 in the space kit :thumb:

Offline stoffelduss

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #388 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 07:58:23 »
The blanks were not removed though.
... you don't actually need language to be this level of explicit... but here you go: removed from the base kit, added to the spacebar kit. moved from the base kit to the spacebar kit.

in the next sentence I said that this change makes this set more expensive for ortho grid users. why? because they have to buy the spacebar kit, to which the 2 blanks were added when they were removed from the base kit.

lol sorry for this!

oh by the way, I just noticed that the base kit includes the 1u extend mode key twice. maybe we can trade one of those for 1 or 2 1u blanks? grid ortho isn't _that_ niche

edit: the 1.5u edit/def fn key is also included twice, though it could be that one of those was meant to be 1.75u. anyway, I see a lot of ways to squeeze another 1u blank in there
« Last Edit: Thu, 19 December 2019, 08:02:20 by stoffelduss »

Offline biip

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #389 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 08:02:43 »
oh by the way, I just noticed that the base kit includes the 1u extend mode key twice. maybe we can trade one of those for 1 or 2 1u blanks? grid ortho isn't _that_ niche

whoops! Will fix this…
I'm still trying to find the best solution about these lower/raise keys…

Offline Robosculpts

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #390 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 08:07:59 »
The blanks were not removed though.
... you don't actually need language to be this level of explicit... but here you go: removed from the base kit, added to the spacebar kit. moved from the base kit to the spacebar kit.

in the next sentence I said that this change makes this set more expensive for ortho grid users. why? because they have to buy the spacebar kit, to which the 2 blanks were added when they were removed from the base kit.

lol sorry for this!

oh by the way, I just noticed that the base kit includes the 1u extend mode key twice. maybe we can trade one of those for 1 or 2 1u blanks? grid ortho isn't _that_ niche

edit: the 1.5u edit/def fn key is also included twice, though it could be that one of those was meant to be 1.75u. anyway, I see a lot of ways to squeeze another 1u blank in there
My bad dude.

Offline stoffelduss

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #391 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 08:11:28 »
My bad dude.
no problem, sorry for the salty reply!

Offline Robosculpts

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #392 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 08:12:30 »
My bad dude.
no problem, sorry for the salty reply!
No worries I should have read more

Offline piit79

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #393 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 08:17:20 »
whoops! Will fix this…
I'm still trying to find the best solution about these lower/raise keys…

Thank you for being so patient with us :)

Offline biip

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #394 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 08:20:39 »
and another update






Offline Kawamashi

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #395 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 08:40:07 »
I think it would help to keep 40s in base, but put ortho coverage in ergo. That means all sorts of ortho layouts are covered with that one, including boardwalk.

I also think the ortho kit would better go with the ergo kit.

I think it would be really nice to add a right arrow with another color in the extension kit. It’s too bad the right arrow is the only one without an upper legend. With it, it would be possible to have a really good looking arrow cluster / nav cluster !

Offline piit79

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #396 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 08:51:14 »
I also think the ortho kit would better go with the ergo kit.

I'd very much prefer keeping ortho in base. It's just a few keys (spaces, a few 1u mods and now lower/raise) that it shouldn't matter to the base price too much.

I mean, I should be happy to get otrho for cheaper (I assume ergo will be cheaper than base). But I actually want 60% coverage as well which means I would have to get ergo and base, and that would be significantly more expensive...

Offline ossetepo

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #397 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 08:56:21 »
This set has steadily moved my needle from "not interested" to "must buy". 

Offline harlekein

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #398 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 09:06:02 »
I also think the ortho kit would better go with the ergo kit.

I'd very much prefer keeping ortho in base. It's just a few keys (spaces, a few 1u mods and now lower/raise) that it shouldn't matter to the base price too much.

That's not what I'm concerned with. It's just that there's more overlap between ortho and ergo when you look at ortho split thumb clusters or boardwalk.

As it is, base offers nothing in that regard. The kit could just be named ortho and it would be apt, it would literally cover all things ortho.

Offline phunktional

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Re: [IC] KAM Wraith (samples pics)
« Reply #399 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 09:23:26 »
and another update

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As a planck grid user, I am very happy with these kits! Thanks for listening to our feedback.