[IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA with Custom Font - MD Poll Up!

[anorphirith]

I love this, keep me on the list

[MediocreBadGuy23]

I love this, keep me on the list

Same here!

[phinix]

Holy smokes, I want one!!!
SPACE SHIP !!!!!!

...


wait... R3? Nooooooo . Fully sculpted!

[Elrick]

If this one ever goes on MassDrop, watch the orders sink MD within a few hours after launch  .

Hope it makes it through because this Colour-way and Font is truly unique here and one key-set to own in the future.

[MediocreBadGuy23]

If this one ever goes on MassDrop, watch the orders sink MD within a few hours after launch  .

Hope it makes it through because this Colour-way and Font is truly unique here and one key-set to own in the future.

Besides granite Elven, I think this is the keyset that I pretty much have to own.

[Elrick]

Besides granite Elven, I think this is the keyset that I pretty much have to own.

Only if it goes through MassDrop due to being ripped off by IvanIvanovich and I do NOT want to hand over my money to anyone else besides MassDrop, when it comes to buying key-caps.

Better to be SAFE than sorry, dealing with rip-off, turd-muffins like IvanIvanovich and trust me they are still here on Geekhack, pretending to be trustful and honest when it comes to taking your money only you find out later who they really are.

Not saying this Group Buy OP will do the same with our money but if he goes with MassDrop, then he indeed is someone who's decent and honest when it comes to allowing our money to be safely deposited for these key-caps.

[Zophos]

I would also be interested in grabbing one of these sets.

[MajorKoos]

Yeah, I definitely want a set.
Looks awesome.

[My_Thoughts]

There is another thread talking about the work needed for the new font for this

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78216.0

[tofgerl]

Yeah, the font is basically impossible to fund - not that there has been a legitimate attempt.
I still wonder why TS hasn't just done the obvious thing and changed the profile to PBT DSA, that way the font is actually pretty easy to do using dye subbing.

[simonyunhe]

Yeah, the font is basically impossible to fund - not that there has been a legitimate attempt.
I still wonder why TS hasn't just done the obvious thing and changed the profile to PBT DSA, that way the font is actually pretty easy to do using dye subbing.

You have the point here the very first SA PBT set will available today! 100 sets limited!

[tofgerl]

Yeah, the font is basically impossible to fund - not that there has been a legitimate attempt.
I still wonder why TS hasn't just done the obvious thing and changed the profile to PBT DSA, that way the font is actually pretty easy to do using dye subbing.

You have the point here the very first SA PBT set will available today! 100 sets limited!

What...? Link? I thought the SA keys were to large to be mouled out of PBT due to shrinkage?

[simonyunhe]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160901/5a3fe1b32c2a0c2ac7b35f9e7df7b6e6.jpg[/img]

Show Image

ink=topic=74350.msg2253132#msg2253132 date=1472724903]

Yeah, the font is basically impossible to fund - not that there has been a legitimate attempt.
I still wonder why TS hasn't just done the obvious thing and changed the profile to PBT DSA, that way the font is actually pretty easy to do using dye subbing.

You have the point here the very first SA PBT set will available today! 100 sets limited!

What...? Link? I thought the SA keys were to large to be mouled out of PBT due to shrinkage?

Visit pimpmykeyboard.com

[tofgerl]

Really?
This is indeed interesting... We can have the cake and eat it too!

[CQ_Cumbers]

Wow - I didn't hear about SA releasing a dyseub SA set (I assume it's in PBT?). It seems like the best of both worlds, but there would still be some compromises to be made. The modifiers would have to have dark legends - which, while still readable, don't match the original sets' pad printed white onto blue ABS. The material also wouldn't match, and I'm not sure about the availability of glossy finishes. If they are as thick as their old PBT SA blanks they might also be somewhat thinner than SA ABS keycaps. That said, I think this is probably the closest to the original vision I could do at this point, seeing as the custom font and SA profile, both major components of the set design, can both be kept. What do you think?

[MediocreBadGuy23]

Wow - I didn't hear about SA releasing a dyseub SA set (I assume it's in PBT?). It seems like the best of both worlds, but there would still be some compromises to be made. The modifiers would have to have dark legends - which, while still readable, don't match the original sets' pad printed white onto blue ABS. The material also wouldn't match, and I'm not sure about the availability of glossy finishes. If they are as thick as their old PBT SA blanks they might also be somewhat thinner than SA ABS keycaps. That said, I think this is probably the closest to the original vision I could do at this point, seeing as the custom font and SA profile, both major components of the set design, can both be kept. What do you think?

I think any way this set will be released I'd buy it instantly. If it looks like your original idea and the renders you have in this thread than I'm 100% for it. This colorway and theme is damn near perfect! I'm excited for this possibly coming

[CQ_Cumbers]

Forgot to mention - there's also the possibility of doing PBT dyesub alphas and custom ABS molds for the legends modifiers, like unoab suggested a long time ago, so that there are only 31 extra custom legends in the base set (64 extra custom legends total, could be reduced with slight color scheme changes to child deals or less novelties). This could be low enough to absorb the extra cost of molds into the set pricing, as long as orders are high enough; I'll have to figure that out with Signature Plastics. I'm not sure if the change in material between alphas and mods might be off-putting to some, though, and there's also the problem of matching PBT colors with Lego bricks - I don't have a PBT color ring, but if someone else has one and can find which color best matches Lego's old light gray bricks (from before 2004), I'd be very grateful.

EDIT: Sorry, I meant modifiers, not legends

[Elrick]

Show Image

Visit pimpmykeyboard.com

Just bought ONE set (which they only allow) so waiting for it to arrive to my front door in Convict Town.

They only sold a TKL set with a Numpad set.

Looking forward to seeing how these babies look up close because these are the very FIRST SA Profiled PBT keys made thus far.  Glad at least one manufacturer is doing it, just wish they would include a greater colour range later on, when it comes to making more designs.

[Elrick]

Forgot to mention - there's also the possibility of doing PBT dyesub alphas and custom ABS molds for the legends, like unoab suggested a long time ago, so that there are only 31 extra custom legends in the base set (64 extra custom legends total, could be reduced with slight color scheme changes to child deals or less novelties).

Actually still prefer your original design ideas because they are so perfect in conception and that is usually the way to go.  If you start adding too many extras that will diffuse the overall design, so it will become another "Try Hard" key-set trying it's best to attract everyone's attention, but fails.

Remember that keeping it conservative will make it far more beautiful for years to come.  It's all about longevity here, I no longer want to buy and install key-sets then throw them in the rubbish to make room for NEW ones next year.

[jebbra]

- I'm not a fan of that space font, makes it look like a Razer
- Go with ABS, if this is a remake of existing Lego putting the same material and color will achieve the purpose, rather than keeping the font
- That transparent yellow cap IS A MUST
- Please allow ortholinear people join this and don't forget including 2 transparent yellow 1U for them, low rise keys on transparent yellow is killer, I already wet just thinking of it
- That's light gray, right? Not silver, right?

I'll wait for the launch 

[CQ_Cumbers]

- I'm not a fan of that space font, makes it look like a Razer
- Go with ABS, if this is a remake of existing Lego putting the same material and color will achieve the purpose, rather than keeping the font
- That transparent yellow cap IS A MUST
- Please allow ortholinear people join this and don't forget including 2 transparent yellow 1U for them, low rise keys on transparent yellow is killer, I already wet just thinking of it
- That's light gray, right? Not silver, right?

I'll wait for the launch 

Getting rid of the custom font would make it a lot cheaper to run, but it seems to be a defining part of the set design at this point - get rid of it and the audience diminishes considerably, in addition to making the set much less unique. I'm not seeing the resemblance with Razer's font though, and the modifiers would still be in ABS. On the other hand, using PBT SA would allow for ortholinear keys in a custom font, and we definitely plan on including trans yellow keys where possible. The color is light gray, but I don't know exactly what SP PBT color that means yet (I'm thinking probably GEC) . You can see the ABS colors we were planning to use below:

[KHAANNN]

WOW - This set was love at first sight, one look and I was hooked

Just skimmed the entire thread quickly, it was nice to see that one lego picture from Clicker. I have a small attic room full of Lego's myself, only 40% of them opened, bought them all 2 years ago, then realised it became an addiction, had to stop, not sure how I feel about Lego now. Probably best to buy Lego's, enjoy them, re-pack and sell them and move onto another set, it would make things manageable as an ~adult

On topic, I didn't see whether it was mentioned, but for 60% users, it would be great to have a transparent Enter key too, kind of like an Esc+Enter combo - I'm not sure how it would look tho

In any case, I will 100% join when this set launches

(Would be nice to have 1.75 CTRL + 1.25 CMD + 1.25 META (or 1.25 blanks) + 1u FN in extras)

[pomk]

Why not doubleshot  the alphas? If run on massdrop, the keyset would likely hit something around 600 sold and with around 100(?) new glyphs that is just 8$ per buyer. Just put the first drop point to be rather high, so people are not afraid of purchasing.

[Sneaky Potato]

This is amazing. I love the idea.

[MikeTheTiger]

Why not doubleshot  the alphas? If run on massdrop, the keyset would likely hit something around 600 sold and with around 100(?) new glyphs that is just 8$ per buyer. Just put the first drop point to be rather high, so people are not afraid of purchasing.

I think he may be on to something here. I, for one, would not mind this set being higher in price than recent SA sets, if we could manage to get the new font made in the process.

Getting rid of the custom font would make it a lot cheaper to run, but it seems to be a defining part of the set design at this point - get rid of it and the audience diminishes considerably, in addition to making the set much less unique.

I think possibly running this through a vendor like MassDrop, would provide a great deal of extra exposure to the set. Which, in turn, would hopefully pull in enough purchases to make the custom font achievable. What are your thoughts about spreading the cost over the entire group buy vs doing the custom font separately? At least if it doesn't meet the potentially higher MOQ to made this feasible, you will definitely gauge interest on your original vision for this set (which is obvious that it is an instant buy for many). Perhaps a poll can be done beforehand? Anyway...I don't mean to sound like a hijacker, but I love your ambitions for this set and would hate to see your efforts not come to fruition. Oh, and I need that esc and backspace.

[tofgerl]

Let's not go back that route.
If anything, let's put doubleshot alphas in the "round 2" bin and focus on what's much easier for round 1.

[jebbra]

I think MD is a good idea, remember they're not only mechkey platform but various hobby so there will be more chance another people (Lego enthusiast) will catch the wind and start they journey on mechkey.

[pomk]

Let's not go back that route.
If anything, let's put doubleshot alphas in the "round 2" bin and focus on what's much easier for round 1.

I think that the reason for abandoning the font was just money (and oobly being busy, but I dont think that he is the only one here who knows something about typography), and it is a non-issue, so why wait for round 2.
Carbon had 600 kits sold
1976 round 2 had 600 kits sold
Pulse had 1200 kits sold

Put the drop at 500 units and the base set would just be 10$ more expensive than normally, making the 88 key base set something like 85$. With this many new legends and with massdrop backing it I don't think that there will be problems with having a prototype set made as part of the order. Especially if you then let the font to be used freely in following massdrop buys.

[tofgerl]

Well, it wouldn't hurt to put it as a stretch goal in the buy, I suppose...

[pomk]

Well, it wouldn't hurt to put it as a stretch goal in the buy, I suppose...

Yes, because it's not going to cause confusion when the entire set changes at some price point. What about those who would prefer to have basic legends?

[tofgerl]

Optional stretch goal obviously.

Or child kit I guess is the term.

[pomk]

Optional stretch goal obviously.

Or child kit I guess is the term.

Just put boring normal legends as a child kit...

[tofgerl]

Optional stretch goal obviously.

Or child kit I guess is the term.

Just put boring normal legends as a child kit...

Child kids don't get made if the main kit fails. What the hell is unreasonable about what I'm saying?

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[pomk]

Optional stretch goal obviously.

Or child kit I guess is the term.

Just put boring normal legends as a child kit...

Child kids don't get made if the main kit fails. What the hell is unreasonable about what I'm saying?

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Sorry for being so aggressive, bad day at work.
Well I guess both are OK, just as long as no one is forced to buy anything with gorton modified font and the kits with the proper font are made even if the gorton modified ones should fail.

[tofgerl]

With massdrop mods and alphas tend to be in different kits either way, but the alphas is the main kit. This set would be better with the mods as the main kit, though.

Feel better, man! Get yourself a treat after work to put all that behind you before coming home ☺️

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[pomk]

With massdrop mods and alphas tend to be in different kits either way, but the alphas is the main kit. This set would be better with the mods as the main kit, though.

Feel better, man! Get yourself a treat after work to put all that behind you before coming home ☺️

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Otherwise a good idea, but the mods are supposed to be done with the same eurostile-like font as well.  )

[tofgerl]

the mods can't be dye subbed either way, the print is lighter than the background color.

[MediocreBadGuy23]

Let's not go back that route.
If anything, let's put doubleshot alphas in the "round 2" bin and focus on what's much easier for round 1.

I think that the reason for abandoning the font was just money (and oobly being busy, but I dont think that he is the only one here who knows something about typography), and it is a non-issue, so why wait for round 2.
Carbon had 600 kits sold
1976 round 2 had 600 kits sold
Pulse had 1200 kits sold

Put the drop at 500 units and the base set would just be 10$ more expensive than normally, making the 88 key base set something like 85$. With this many new legends and with massdrop backing it I don't think that there will be problems with having a prototype set made as part of the order. Especially if you then let the font to be used freely in following massdrop buys.

That price is actually pretty reasonable. I think this set has a good enough colorway to where plenty of people would get in on it for that. And it's something new and out there (with the yellow mods like the old Lego blocks). I like that there's more discussion going on in this thread too. I don't think I can contribute anything (I know nothing about Keysets and how they're made) but I'll be checking regularly and hoping this gets made.

[pomk]

the mods can't be dye subbed either way, the print is lighter than the background color.

Who said anything about dyesubbing? Double shot all the way, it's not 'that' expensive really. Besides, it's not really know whether SP continue the PBT SA production or allow for community sets using it.

[tofgerl]

the mods can't be dye subbed either way, the print is lighter than the background color.

Who said anything about dyesubbing? Double shot all the way, it's not 'that' expensive really. Besides, it's not really know whether SP continue the PBT SA production or allow for community sets using it.

All of us! That's what we're currently discussing! PBT dye sub versus ABS double shot with the old font. Then you started talking about double shot with the new font, which was rejected months ago!

[pomk]

the mods can't be dye subbed either way, the print is lighter than the background color.

Who said anything about dyesubbing? Double shot all the way, it's not 'that' expensive really. Besides, it's not really know whether SP continue the PBT SA production or allow for community sets using it.

All of us! That's what we're currently discussing! PBT dye sub versus ABS double shot with the old font. Then you started talking about double shot with the new font, which was rejected months ago!

Rejected because of a monetary non-issue, which was my point all along.

[tofgerl]

Yes, YOUR point.

[MikeTheTiger]

the mods can't be dye subbed either way, the print is lighter than the background color.

Who said anything about dyesubbing? Double shot all the way, it's not 'that' expensive really. Besides, it's not really know whether SP continue the PBT SA production or allow for community sets using it.

All of us! That's what we're currently discussing! PBT dye sub versus ABS double shot with the old font. Then you started talking about double shot with the new font, which was rejected months ago!

the mods can't be dye subbed either way, the print is lighter than the background color.

Who said anything about dyesubbing? Double shot all the way, it's not 'that' expensive really. Besides, it's not really know whether SP continue the PBT SA production or allow for community sets using it.

All of us! That's what we're currently discussing! PBT dye sub versus ABS double shot with the old font. Then you started talking about double shot with the new font, which was rejected months ago!

Rejected because of a monetary non-issue, which was my point all along.

Yes, YOUR point.

Woah, woah, woah...let's not argue here. The point is that we all would like to see this set get made. Period. Hopefully we can all agree that ABS doubleshot > PBT dye sub. Let's bounce some constructive ideas around here and see what makes sense to OP.

[pomk]

Yes, YOUR point.

I'm sorry if I have offended you on a personal level.
I just don't see the point of not going forward with the original plan of all custom double shot legends. Especially considering that the price of a TKL set would be just 10$ more than with the basic gorton legends. Do you feel that 85$ for a TKL set with an unique font is too much, or that it is unlikely to fetch the required 500 orders? The price tiers under 500 would be ridiculous though, but all recent SA group buys have been at least that succesful.

[Jedi]

I think the original issue was whether Oobly would have time to work on this set.  In the interest of keeping this with CQ_Cumbers and Oobly inspired, could we have a community member who has designed caps review the keyboard layout editor and let us know any keys that need to be added to cover any boards the community wishes to be included with the set?

Here is the layout editor:  http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/53c27b409293bade6f98

[CQ_Cumbers]

I think the original issue was whether Oobly would have time to work on this set.  In the interest of keeping this with CQ_Cumbers and Oobly inspired, could we have a community member who has designed caps review the keyboard layout editor and let us know any keys that need to be added to cover any boards the community wishes to be included with the set?

Here is the layout editor:  http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/53c27b409293bade6f98

I don't think that's the main problem here. The problem I'm having is creating the legends, because it has to match a bunch of Signature Plastic's requirements in order to be manufactured (and since the process is confidential, we have to check every key with SP's engineers as well). I have Oobly's legend files for a 104-key standard keyboard, but creating new ones for the child kits is a difficult process, especially as the files appear different in different editors or even different versions of the same editor, just scaling the files distorts them (floating point errors?), and a slew of other problems. I'm figuring it out, but it'll take a while.

In addition, I'm not sure if the designer can change the price of set on Massdrop, or if they have some contract with Signature Plastics. If you can just raise the set price $20, and tell Massdrop to use that extra money for funding the custom legends, that would be great, but I'm not sure if it is possible. From what I know, I'll need to:

1) Verify with Signature Plastics that the legend files are manufacturable
2) Ask them for a price estimate on the set (or do you do that through massdrop?)
3) Contact massdrop about arrangements for pricing the set and tiers
4) Set up a poll on massdrop for the set and child kits?
5) Massdrop does the ordering from Signature Plastics (of both the set and the legends?) and the subsequent distribution

I've never done this before though, so any help on how to actually go about this from someone who has experience running a group buy would be greatly appreciated.

[Jedi]

I have Oobly's legend files for a 104-key standard keyboard, but creating new ones for the child kits is a difficult process, especially as the files appear different in different editors or even different versions of the same editor, just scaling the files distorts them (floating point errors?), and a slew of other problems. I'm figuring it out, but it'll take a while.

In addition, I'm not sure if the designer can change the price of set on Massdrop, or if they have some contract with Signature Plastics. If you can just raise the set price $20, and tell Massdrop to use that extra money for funding the custom legends, that would be great, but I'm not sure if it is possible. From what I know, I'll need to:

1) Verify with Signature Plastics that the legend files are manufacturable
2) Ask them for a price estimate on the set (or do you do that through massdrop?)
3) Contact massdrop about arrangements for pricing the set and tiers
4) Set up a poll on massdrop for the set and child kits?
5) Massdrop does the ordering from Signature Plastics (of both the set and the legends?) and the subsequent distribution

I've never done this before though, so any help on how to actually go about this from someone who has experience running a group buy would be greatly appreciated.

1.  If you are handling the IC from the position as the Designer, contact Melissa at Signature Plastics.  Melissa would take you through the steps in getting to SP what all that is needed.  Keep going through this with Melissa until everything from layout, to keyset to child deal is covered in the design.  Only once the design is done with SP would this move to step 2.
2.  Ask SP to provide you a quote for the base kit (this is the basic set of keys that you want the design to include).  Add child kits (these are extra keys not included in the base kit that complement the keyboard layouts you intend to support).  Last, provide a novelty kit (this is optional and would include keys that are extras or keys that may use graphic legends).
3.  Yes, contact a 3rd party if you do not intend to be the sole person to handle the group buy.  Massdrop, Originative, and others like KeyClack may be interested in running the group buy.
4.  Optional, you do not necessarily need a poll setup as you already have a interest check on Geekhack.  May want to extend this to Deskthority and Reddit and other popular sites or direct those community members to the Geekhack interest check here.
5.  Yes, the group buy site, whether its Massdrop or some other vendor site, will take over with putting up the group buy for a period of time (usually 2 to 6 weeks) and collect payments from all participants.  The vendor would place the order with Signature Plastics and the group's order would be placed on the schedule with Signature Plastics for production.  Be sure to ask the mods at Geekhack to then create a group buy thread for when the set goes on sale.

HTH

[pomk]

In addition, I'm not sure if the designer can change the price of set on Massdrop, or if they have some contract with Signature Plastics. If you can just raise the set price $20, and tell Massdrop to use that extra money for funding the custom legends, that would be great, but I'm not sure if it is possible.

I think that they should be able to automatically think of the set as just a bunch of novelty keys and no special 'legend funding' or tinkering with the price on massdrop is needed. This is unless the custom legend funding is supposed to pay also for something other than the molds.

[tofgerl]

Yes, YOUR point.

I'm sorry if I have offended you on a personal level.
I just don't see the point of not going forward with the original plan of all custom double shot legends. Especially considering that the price of a TKL set would be just 10$ more than with the basic gorton legends. Do you feel that 85$ for a TKL set with an unique font is too much, or that it is unlikely to fetch the required 500 orders? The price tiers under 500 would be ridiculous though, but all recent SA group buys have been at least that succesful.

Hey, whoa! Nothing personal! Sorry if it came out that way - that was in no way my intention!

I was just pointing out that this set was first suggested a year ago. It then gained no traction because of the extra price for the font. Then, just this last week, it was announced that Dye Subbed SA R3 caps is a possibility, which is the only thing that made this set a possibility again and revived the thread. The fact that you NOW want to drag us back to what didn't work a year ago is what I wanted to point out.

[pomk]

Yes, YOUR point.

I'm sorry if I have offended you on a personal level.
I just don't see the point of not going forward with the original plan of all custom double shot legends. Especially considering that the price of a TKL set would be just 10$ more than with the basic gorton legends. Do you feel that 85$ for a TKL set with an unique font is too much, or that it is unlikely to fetch the required 500 orders? The price tiers under 500 would be ridiculous though, but all recent SA group buys have been at least that succesful.

Hey, whoa! Nothing personal! Sorry if it came out that way - that was in no way my intention!

I was just pointing out that this set was first suggested a year ago. It then gained no traction because of the extra price for the font. Then, just this last week, it was announced that Dye Subbed SA R3 caps is a possibility, which is the only thing that made this set a possibility again and revived the thread. The fact that you NOW want to drag us back to what didn't work a year ago is what I wanted to point out.

You are corect. However I think that the original idea of having to fund the font separately was a bit misconceived. If people would have been presented with just the set with a custom font and the price of 85$ I don't think that any other route would have been even thought of.