So, in my opinion, symmetric stagger like in #1 & #2 is good and usable. But I would not waste an additional bottom row just for two thumb keys (a navigational cluster in separate layer removes need for the outer keys) - I never understood this design in the ergodox either: When rotating my thumbs on Qwerty from their resting position below V and N on the spacebar either in- or outward one key, they still touch the spacebar cleanly above its bottom edge.I think your thumbs must be longer than mine, or your hands a bit differently shaped. (Or else you don’t orient them the same way I do on a standard keyboard: my arms come in angled about 40° on a standard keyboard, with my wrists relatively straight, which means that if I sweep my thumbs outward, they end up going quite a bit below the spacebar as they extend.)
I think your thumbs must be longer than mine, or your hands a bit differently shaped.
Like I tried to say: ergonomic is a very personal thing, depending on many factors.I think your thumbs must be longer than mine, or your hands a bit differently shaped.
Up for a thumbpetition ? ;D
(Attachment Link)
The second layout might work for me with some tweaks. I've never been a fan of split spacebars or backspaces.
The fourth layout might be really cool. I like the ergodox layout but it's a little too big for my hands. A compact, 60% size layout would be nice for me. I may have to try a cardboard mockup of that.
3rd and 4th are basically the same, it may be my dream "ergo" style keyboard. While I like the idea of an ergonomic board I do not like two parts boards, this may be the answer. If you ever consider to build them I may be in for a PCB.Anything you’d change about these?
The second layout might work for me with some tweaks. I've never been a fan of split spacebars or backspaces.What if you just set both to be spacebars? Any tweaks you recommend, in particular?
3rd and 4th are basically the same, it may be my dream "ergo" style keyboard. While I like the idea of an ergonomic board I do not like two parts boards, this may be the answer. If you ever consider to build them I may be in for a PCB.Anything you’d change about these?
Are all the blanks programmable, or are you planning to assign there the modifiers in fixed positions?Imagine the whole thing has blank keycaps, and all keys are programmable. Any physical layout changes you’d make? Any changes in assignments of keys to characters?
Are all the blanks programmable, or are you planning to assign there the modifiers in fixed positions?Imagine the whole thing has blank keycaps, and all keys are programmable. Any physical layout changes you’d make? Any changes in assignments of keys to characters?
I’m curious whether, for example, having shift keys directly to the outsides of the pinky home row positions would work for people, or whether that would be too big a leap on a keyboard with an otherwise standard-ish layout.
the only issues with putting non standard in an existing 60% case is the location of the screwsYes, you can not put a switch over a stand-off. We discussed alternative layouts for Poker-compatible cases for a group build over on Deskthority (http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/group-build-prototyping-phase-t7474-720.html#p161655). Matt3o posted measurements for where the standoffs are.
the only issues with putting non standard in an existing 60% case is the location of the screwsYes, you can not put a switch over a stand-off. We discussed alternative layouts for Poker-compatible cases for a group build over on Deskthority (http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/group-build-prototyping-phase-t7474-720.html#p161655). Matt3o posted measurements for where the standoffs are.
I'm attaching the XCF file I used for my illustrations on DT. You can take a screenshot off the Keyboard Layout Editor's web site, crop it and paste it as a layer to compare it against the stand-off positions.
BTW, not all Poker cases have the stand-off in the centre of the keyboard, and a few plastic ones also have ridges between the key rows (but those are not very interesting).
Whenever I am not able to use my split boards I'm resorting to my HyperNano keyboard which is quite similar to your second design but with a different bottom row and, as usual :) , a little more minimalistic:
Only 3 rows with 5 keys per side but a whole row of mostly 1u thumb keys plus a trackpoint for increased hand separation.Show Image(http://deskthority.net/resources/top/6832)
And while I would always favour any decent split design this arrangement is actually quite nice and ergonomic to type on.
So, in my opinion, symmetric stagger like in #1 & #2 is good and usable. But I would not waste an additional bottom row just for two thumb keys (a navigational cluster in separate layer removes need for the outer keys) - I never understood this design in the ergodox either: When rotating my thumbs on Qwerty from their resting position below V and N on the spacebar either in- or outward one key, they still touch the spacebar cleanly above its bottom edge.
The last two options with their rotated halves do have a certain ergonomic appeal, but from personal experiences with these designs I must say that a relaxed position depends highly on personal preference when hand separation and angulation are fixed on a tiny board, even more than for example the column stagger on the ergodox. After a few iterations I never managed to find a pleasing layout with my "ML wing" designs and eventually resorted to split keyboards. On a full keyboard like the Truly that might be more forgiving, I don't know. And, of course, such a design just looks, well, let's say out of place in a rectangular frame.
Better picture:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Ucj8Fog.jpg)
The second layout might work for me with some tweaks. I've never been a fan of split spacebars or backspaces.What if you just set both to be spacebars? Any tweaks you recommend, in particular?
I really really don't like split spacebars or backspaces.Have you ever tried using a keyboard that had a split spacebar for a few days?
Just my preference from years of QWERTY ANSI layouts.Are there any aspects of the QWERTY ANSI layout that you don’t like? If not, you can always just stick to the standard shape.
Up for a thumbpetition ? ;DWhat happens if you keep extending your thumb further than that? Doesn’t it go a bit downward as it keeps going out?
Coolness! Again, if you ever go to actually have a plate, or a PCB, or both being built, I am in for a second prototype.For a prototype, how about a layered acrylic case that you can hand wire? :p
The last two remind me of something technomancy built. He called the Atreus keyboard: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54759.0 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54759.0)Yeah, I think the Atreus generally has the right idea. Though I would change a bit about the way it handles thumb keys, and I do find another column for each pinky to be convenient.
I like the first the best. It could work for normal use, but the semicolon would bug me if I were using it for programmingThis is just a concept, nothing finished. Is having shift directly next to the pinkies (instead of down one row) a problem for you? (Personally I find it quite nice.) Would you rearrange things in any particular way? Where would you put the semicolon, instead?
Coolness! Again, if you ever go to actually have a plate, or a PCB, or both being built, I am in for a second prototype.For a prototype, how about a layered acrylic case that you can hand wire? :p
QuoteI like the first the best. It could work for normal use, but the semicolon would bug me if I were using it for programmingThis is just a concept, nothing finished. Is having shift directly next to the pinkies (instead of down one row) a problem for you? (Personally I find it quite nice.) Would you rearrange things in any particular way? Where would you put the semicolon, instead?
So just to be clear: the physical layout would be sufficient (enough keys to place everything you need), but you would need a different character mapping? That’s easy to accommodate with fully programmable firmware. :-)This is just a concept, nothing finished. Is having shift directly next to the pinkies (instead of down one row) a problem for you? (Personally I find it quite nice.) Would you rearrange things in any particular way? Where would you put the semicolon, instead?I would be able to get used to the shift keys being one row up. It seems like a more comfortable placement for them.
For semi-colon, one suggestion would be to trade places with the backslash key. The other suggestion would be to put the semi-colon back on the home row in its normal place, put the apostrophe/quote key where you have backslash, then move backslash up to the left corner.
This layout is very standard in comparison to the ones you posted in the OP, but it's one that I think I'd love. Dedicated arrows are really important for me.So you’d ditch the right shift altogether, and move the left shift further away from your finger? I think I’d personally have a lot of trouble with that, but it seems like it could have some advantages. One note: your left alt key is pretty far for a thumb to reach. I take it you use your pinky to press that key?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/yuOl5Iu.png)