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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Raddam on Tue, 20 May 2014, 16:07:52

Title: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Raddam on Tue, 20 May 2014, 16:07:52
What's your dream keyboard? Or if you could make your own what would it have?
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Ozric on Tue, 20 May 2014, 16:25:11
Industrial Grey Model M, probably TKL, with PBT doubleshot SA keycaps.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 20 May 2014, 16:29:22
60%, MX greens, gunmetal FMJ case, with a nostalgia set
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 20 May 2014, 16:30:38
TKL layout Beamspring board in a thin bezel case, spherical thick ABS caps, USB connection.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Novus on Tue, 20 May 2014, 16:31:35
I swear we already had this thread before somewhere.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 20 May 2014, 16:34:52
Quote from: the1onewolf on Tue, 20 May 2014, 16:31:35
I swear we already had this thread before somewhere.
There have been a few similar ones, like "Favorite board + your dream board" and I'm sure there are some but they just died
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: noisyturtle on Tue, 20 May 2014, 16:40:22
TKL with linear-clicky switches that have low actuation force but high push-back force

Impossible and will never happen
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: esoomenona on Tue, 20 May 2014, 16:43:38
Quote from: noisyturtle on Tue, 20 May 2014, 16:40:22
TKL with linear-clicky switches that have low actuation force but high push-back force

Impossible and will never happen

TKL board. Linear switches. Speaker that makes clicking sound when switch is actuated. Low spring weight. Under the keyboard are little rods that are retracted. When the switch is actuated, the rod shoots up pushing the stem up with force then retracts quickly.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Photekq on Tue, 20 May 2014, 16:45:51
This incredibly unique keyboard that can be used as a gun..

(http://i.imgur.com/vNI3Su9.png)
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Novus on Tue, 20 May 2014, 16:47:56
Quote from: Photekq on Tue, 20 May 2014, 16:45:51
This incredibly unique keyboard that can be used as a gun..

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/vNI3Su9.png)


Does it have a blade though?
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Defect on Tue, 20 May 2014, 17:28:57
Gimme them magnets and honeywell sphericals.

In 60% form factor.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: derzemel on Tue, 20 May 2014, 17:44:38
The closest keyboard to my dream one would be Duck Light Saver v2.0 (http://duck0113.tistory.com/category/LIGHT%20SAVER)

And based on this one I made this preset (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/0658976e54f7a67f8730fecc71efcabc) which represents exactly what I consider to be the perfect keyboard. Also, it should have Cherry MXReds with white LED lights and the possibility to select which LEDs stay on or off
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: noisyturtle on Tue, 20 May 2014, 17:45:30
Quote from: esoomenona on Tue, 20 May 2014, 16:43:38
Quote from: noisyturtle on Tue, 20 May 2014, 16:40:22
TKL with linear-clicky switches that have low actuation force but high push-back force

Impossible and will never happen
Under the keyboard are little rods that are retracted. When the switch is actuated, the rod shoots up pushing the stem up with force then retracts quickly.

That's almost exactly what I was thinking, but with tiny screw-dials to adjust the return force. I'm a little creeped out how close you are though  :eek:
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Raddam on Tue, 20 May 2014, 18:01:52
Quote from: the1onewolf on Tue, 20 May 2014, 16:31:35
I swear we already had this thread before somewhere.

Sorry if we did already :rolleyes: I just think this is a really cool topic that I couldn't find on the thread. I don't doubt that there was another one though.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Razor Lotus on Tue, 20 May 2014, 18:07:05
A korean 60% with a nice metal case like hammer or something. Thick PBt keycaps and nice backlighting
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: dorkvader on Tue, 20 May 2014, 18:11:19
60% + numpad hall effect USB keyboard with NKRO.

^ currently in the works, hope to be done soon.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 20 May 2014, 18:16:15
And then I can have one too dorkvader?
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Pacifist on Tue, 20 May 2014, 18:17:44
Quote from: Raddam on Tue, 20 May 2014, 18:01:52
Quote from: the1onewolf on Tue, 20 May 2014, 16:31:35
I swear we already had this thread before somewhere.

Sorry if we did already :rolleyes: I just think this is a really cool topic that I couldn't find on the thread. I don't doubt that there was another one though.

Apart from the typical "what keyboard should I get" "what switch is the best" and "is topre worth it" this question comes up periodically, each time in the form of a new thread
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 20 May 2014, 18:30:39
Quote from: the1onewolf on Tue, 20 May 2014, 16:31:35
I swear we already had this thread before somewhere.

That's like almost every other thread lately.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Findecanor on Tue, 20 May 2014, 19:20:24
I dream of a more ergonomic keyboard that is something in-between symmetric stagger and Kinesis contoured, and with keycaps in completely custom contoured shapes to form a bowl for each hand's fingers.
The shape would have the ergonomic benefits of the Kinesis without having to relearn too much from a regular typewriter keyboard, and without having to use the "correct" finger for each key all the time.
The keyboard is of course split in two halves, with adjustable tenting, inclination and position and angle of the thumb key clusters. Integrated pointing device, gesture recognition and spaceball-like camera control for 3D modelling and RTS games.

The switches are smooth and stable as Topre, with a force curve like lubed Cherry MX Clear but slightly sharper, more like clicky switches. The force is adjusted for each finger (like Topre Variable or Key Tronic ErgoForce). The key travel of normal keys after actuation is at least twice than normal so that you never bottom out. Thumb keys have lower key travel to a distinct bottom so they are easier to hold down.
You get tactile feedback and very low audial feedback only on the down-stroke when you have reached the actuation point and never otherwise. On the up-stroke, it is linear and dampened silent. (like a mix between Cream Alps and Buckling spring). Also because the switches are so stable, there is also no rattle.
Each key is also analogue after the tactile point, so that it can be used as an analogue gamepad for gaming or for other user-interface enhancing features.

Despite the longer key travel, a switch with keycap can be ~ 1/4" lower profile than Cherry MX. The users fingers will reach down into a bowl somewhat like on the Kinesis, but without the need for a high wrist rest.

If the Caps Lock key is not unmapped, it is latching so that you could feel with your finger when it is active. Like the Shift Lock on the Commodore 64, but unlike Cherry MX Lock/Alps Lock, it is also tactile and clicky so that you can feel when you have activated it. It can be pressed and released by software, with audial feedback.

Keycap texture is coarse like SP or Realforce, PBT plastic with E-ink legends. Instead of homing bar, there are two homing dots in the bar's location (like a split bar) on the D and K keys. The dots allow you to self-diagnose if you have Carpal Tunner Syndrome - if you don't feel the dots under your middle finger as being two distinct dots you should see a doctor.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: AntiPeasentry on Tue, 20 May 2014, 19:54:33
Happy Hacking 2, Neon green cover. Neon Yellow WASD keycaps, backlit with green LEDS. rest of keycaps all lime.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: 0100010 on Tue, 20 May 2014, 20:02:08
USB Model F in an ANSI / Sun 7 layout.  http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/3dfcae8af388d42f9b502310929a7fea (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/3dfcae8af388d42f9b502310929a7fea)
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 20 May 2014, 20:22:46
Ergo dox layout, dished slightly, Buckling springs, programmable, EL mat backlighting for a nice cool glow, CNC milled case from 316 stainless, brushed finish with either no clear coat or a matte finish clear.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 20 May 2014, 20:40:52
Quote from: Melvang on Tue, 20 May 2014, 20:22:46
Ergo dox layout, dished slightly, Buckling springs, programmable, EL mat backlighting for a nice cool glow, CNC milled case from 316 stainless, brushed finish with either no clear coat or a matte finish clear.

Sounds like your next project board ;)
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: C5Allroad on Tue, 20 May 2014, 20:43:42
GON Ns-87....
KMAC 2....
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Pacifist on Tue, 20 May 2014, 20:44:42
mx mini, full alum case, nixdorfs, OG dyesubs all across AND in right profile throughout.

Pretty much impossible
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 20 May 2014, 21:00:40
Quote from: SpAmRaY on Tue, 20 May 2014, 20:40:52
Quote from: Melvang on Tue, 20 May 2014, 20:22:46
Ergo dox layout, dished slightly, Buckling springs, programmable, EL mat backlighting for a nice cool glow, CNC milled case from 316 stainless, brushed finish with either no clear coat or a matte finish clear.

Sounds like your next project board ;)

Forgot to add, custom stems to accept MX caps.  So long as we are going that far, have special ones to use DCS profile caps in alternate layouts without weird profile issues.

But no spam ray i don't think this will be happening.  Though I don't see why it can't be done.  Aside from the special alternate layout option.  I wonder if mold costs would be the only thing preventing MX -> BS adapters
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: OnTheBrink on Tue, 20 May 2014, 21:26:25
A KMAC 2 or another really good custom with a black aluminum case, red or orange thick titanium plate, thick blank PBTs either black or some other variant with different color modifiers, bi-color BB v2 escape key that matches a CC wasd cluster (preferably blood splat or blank candy corns).
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: CK Briefs on Tue, 20 May 2014, 21:35:55
I think my orion constitutes as a dream board,no?
The only board better might be a 456gt and i don't really want one :P
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: lightsout714 on Tue, 20 May 2014, 22:30:00
Original KMAC in grey/silver. w/a brand new OG Cherry set. w/modded clears.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Dubsgalore on Tue, 20 May 2014, 22:36:55
Brand new ESA-3000HASRO

Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: exitfire401 on Tue, 20 May 2014, 22:40:33
My dream board that exists, I already own (my fully customized race 2) my dream board that doesn't exist (without mods anyway) is a 55g hhkb.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 20 May 2014, 22:45:03
RealForce 87U white 55g uniform in an aluminium case with yellow printed keycaps.

I already have the Drunken Skull for the Esc, now I just need the rest :p
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: JPG on Tue, 20 May 2014, 22:57:10
Space-unsaver model F with stainless steel (or titanium) case, all features from Soarer converter but built in the controller. This keyboard should be made to last 100 years.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: t2russo on Tue, 20 May 2014, 23:23:37
Dream as in ideal parts?  Aluminum TKL with left-side sixpack and nav cluster. 

Dream as in I probably won't ever get the chance to purchase one? 356L
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Oobly on Wed, 21 May 2014, 01:53:46
Layout: 46% custom layout with staggered vertical columns and angled thumb clusters.

Switches: Trampoline and latex modded 62g worn-in and lubed ErgoClears.

Keycaps: Thick Cherry profile POM doubleshots (solid colour with milky white legends so backlighting diffuses nicely without showing through the rest of the cap).

Case: Custom CNC machined aluminium or single piece acrylic.

Cable: Long, braided MicroUSB to match the keycap colour.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: combataran on Wed, 21 May 2014, 02:06:06
A 356CL kit.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: davkol on Wed, 21 May 2014, 04:59:06
I suppose I'd be happy with the upcoming AcidFire's split Axios (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44940).

For now, it's the ErgoDox with
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: frosty on Thu, 22 May 2014, 10:00:10
white filco body, phantom insides, rainbow pbts and a fancy cable.

cherry mx reds and super blacks on modifiers, all lubed. tkl.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: nickr on Thu, 22 May 2014, 23:02:47
This layout where the Fn layer is nearly identical to the Poker II:

(http://i58.tinypic.com/mabcet.png)
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Techhobbiest on Thu, 22 May 2014, 23:45:50
The "legal keyboard" I posted about in the DIY section
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: diqkiq on Mon, 26 May 2014, 11:58:31
Quote from: Photekq on Tue, 20 May 2014, 16:45:51
This incredibly unique keyboard that can be used as a gun..

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/vNI3Su9.png)


Where's the bayonet? Not combat ready!
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Findecanor on Mon, 26 May 2014, 13:26:17
Quote from: nickr on Thu, 22 May 2014, 23:02:47
This layout where the Fn layer is nearly identical to the Poker II:

Show Image
(http://i58.tinypic.com/mabcet.png)

Plate option #2: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57948
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: ComradeSniper on Mon, 26 May 2014, 13:47:07
HHKB Pro 2 HG  :'(
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: ShriekBob on Mon, 26 May 2014, 14:40:32
Mine would be a tented ergodox with a wrist rest, maybe smaller thumb clusters, Green or Clear switches.

Luckily that's what I'm building.

Otherwise, an M-15.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Puddsy on Mon, 26 May 2014, 14:43:56
GON NS87
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: dante on Mon, 26 May 2014, 14:50:28
Variable Topre Typeheaven
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Lain1911 on Mon, 26 May 2014, 15:23:21
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 26 May 2014, 16:22:52
HHKB Pro 2 form factor and layout with IBM capacitive buckling spring switches (like those in the IBM Model F XT). This would be like the IBM "Kishsaver" but more compact.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: nickr on Mon, 26 May 2014, 17:17:16
Quote from: Findecanor on Mon, 26 May 2014, 13:26:17
Quote from: nickr on Thu, 22 May 2014, 23:02:47
This layout where the Fn layer is nearly identical to the Poker II:

Show Image
(http://i58.tinypic.com/mabcet.png)

Plate option #2: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57948

Thanks!
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: dook0 on Mon, 26 May 2014, 18:04:00
My dream keyboard :

- Topre switch
- Gon ns38
- SA Dolch keycaps

Imposibru dream ??
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 26 May 2014, 18:10:18
Quote from: dook0 on Mon, 26 May 2014, 18:04:00
My dream keyboard :

- Topre switch
- Gon ns38
- SA Dolch keycaps

Imposibru dream ??

HHKB might fit, need plate though.  And some of those nifty MX-compatible Topre sliders.

Potentially doable.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Doyniish on Mon, 26 May 2014, 18:40:28
Das Ultimate with a white frame and miami keycaps.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Pacifist on Mon, 26 May 2014, 18:41:26
Every time I see a MX MINI, I look at the case, desperate for a full metal one :'(
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Protato_Tubby on Mon, 26 May 2014, 19:17:09
Tenkeyless, black body, orange keys, cherry MX browns, UK Layout, rubberised wristrest, headphone and microphone passthrough on the front ( I don't want my cables over my board); USB hub on side, removable wires that have a black braid sleeve with orange accents.
At a low price preferably too!  :p

(http://i.imgur.com/FGTNe8E.png)
 
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: dook0 on Mon, 26 May 2014, 19:28:27
Quote from: rowdy on Mon, 26 May 2014, 18:10:18
Quote from: dook0 on Mon, 26 May 2014, 18:04:00
My dream keyboard :

- Topre switch
- Gon ns38
- SA Dolch keycaps

Imposibru dream ??

HHKB might fit, need plate though.  And some of those nifty MX-compatible Topre sliders.

Potentially doable.

My journey shall begin
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Oobly on Tue, 27 May 2014, 02:19:17
Quote from: Protato_Tubby on Mon, 26 May 2014, 19:17:09
Tenkeyless, black body, orange keys, cherry MX browns, UK Layout, rubberised wristrest, headphone and microphone passthrough on the front ( I don't want my cables over my board); USB hub on side, removable wires that have a black braid sleeve with orange accents.
At a low price preferably too!  :p

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/FGTNe8E.png)


I know these don't have black legends, but at least they're orange: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57998.0
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Protato_Tubby on Tue, 27 May 2014, 05:53:51
Quote from: Oobly on Tue, 27 May 2014, 02:19:17
Quote from: Protato_Tubby on Mon, 26 May 2014, 19:17:09
Tenkeyless, black body, orange keys, cherry MX browns, UK Layout, rubberised wristrest, headphone and microphone passthrough on the front ( I don't want my cables over my board); USB hub on side, removable wires that have a black braid sleeve with orange accents.
At a low price preferably too!  :p

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/FGTNe8E.png)


I know these don't have black legends, but at least they're orange: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57998.0 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57998.0)
As Much as they do look awesome; I'm broke!  :))
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Protato_Tubby on Tue, 27 May 2014, 06:00:54
Quote from: Techhobbiest on Thu, 22 May 2014, 23:45:50
The "legal keyboard" I posted about in the DIY section
Are you going to link it?
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: davkol on Tue, 27 May 2014, 06:47:02
Quote from: Protato_Tubby on Tue, 27 May 2014, 06:00:54
Quote from: Techhobbiest on Thu, 22 May 2014, 23:45:50
The "legal keyboard" I posted about in the DIY section
Are you going to link it?
GOTO making stuff together, press F3 (or Ctrl+F or slash or whatever), type "legal". Problem solved. (Extraverts. ಠ_ಠ)
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: KaILLERa-Ninja on Tue, 27 May 2014, 07:33:05
FILCO Majestouch Cherry MX Brown with Red O rings and backlight.
Rosewill RK-9200 IS SCARILY close, except they removed the context menu key to put their own FN key, which they SHOULD have replaced the right window key with instead.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: GenKaan on Tue, 27 May 2014, 07:44:02
Shine 3 TKL, white LED, Mx Red, custom 100% clear case, white blank PBT caps and a white cable.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 27 May 2014, 07:50:49
I still think buckling springs with capacitive PCB in an ergo dox like layout with custom stems to allow MX caps would be my end all, be all keyboard.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: agodinhost on Tue, 27 May 2014, 08:28:42
I think that the word Ergonomic is overused in the keyboard world, IMHO is impossible to design one real ergonomic keyboard without taking into consideration some few individual parameters like hand sizes, finger's distance, aperture, force, etc. I'm no expert in this subject, don't get me wrong, I'm just thinking about my dream keyboard, pros and cons of it.

You can say that it's already done into one or another keyboard but actually what we really do is a generic aproximation of all these parameters in order to mass produce them. A truly ergonomic keyboard would be like a custom suit, to build one you would have to have someone taking your dimensions in order to produce it.

I would love to have one real symetric keyboard, something like this:
(https://db.tt/nkalsMKQ)
Work in progress, it's just one version of many, I couldn't decide per a final layout yet.

Source here (http://ne0.cc/laygenV2/#ZyVOM).
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: EvillePanda on Tue, 27 May 2014, 09:07:51
Something built specifically for small hands.  Maybe along the lines of a split typematrix with mechanical switches.  The keyboard is almost perfect for me.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 29 May 2014, 01:18:13
Quote from: agodinhost on Tue, 27 May 2014, 08:28:42
I would love to have one real symetric keyboard, something like this:
Show Image
(https://db.tt/nkalsMKQ)

Work in progress, it's just one version of many, I couldn't decide per a final layout yet.
Well definitely try this out and report back, but... note that your row stagger direction goes the opposite way from how you want your fingers to be moving (at least, assuming you’re a typical typist; perhaps you have a unique typing style), so my guess is that this will be quite uncomfortable.

A symmetric stagger the other way takes a bit of learning, but can be quite successful. For example:
(http://deskthority.net/w/images/8/88/Mtron1.jpg)

EvillePanda: the folks I know with small hands *love* the μTRON (pictured above), which is designed for tiny Japanese people. It’s pretty expensive and hard to obtain though. :-)

(With my average American-sized hands I find it quite cramped.)
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: EvillePanda on Thu, 29 May 2014, 08:22:15
If it were a matrix layout, it would be perfect.  Now that I've used one at home and at work for several months, I don't think I could go back to a staggered layout.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: EvillePanda on Thu, 29 May 2014, 09:10:19
Also...515 dollars!!!!  I think my bank account just fainted.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: ideus on Thu, 29 May 2014, 13:09:42
Quote from: nickr on Thu, 22 May 2014, 23:02:47
This layout where the Fn layer is nearly identical to the Poker II:

Show Image
(http://i58.tinypic.com/mabcet.png)


An extended FC660M? Cool.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Thu, 29 May 2014, 13:11:43
I think my dream keyboard would be a KMAC 2 with skidata type GMK keycaps(i think they're called "charred orange" now) and 62g lubed vintage blacks.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: kohi on Thu, 29 May 2014, 19:15:03
kmac happy with 62g clears :)
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Techhobbiest on Thu, 29 May 2014, 20:18:32
This it is one I made on the editor... with mult copy paste ability

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/2cc3bd5a5d6915cc84e2e688949d34c3
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: NamelessPFG on Fri, 30 May 2014, 03:40:49
Mine would more or less be a split keyboard, somewhere between an ErgoDox and one of those Kinesis or Maltron boards, with buckling springs while still retaining NKRO.

I'm thinking that a split keyboard integrates far better into a cockpit sort of setup without completely compromising KB+M usability, and the mousepad could be located where a normal contiguous keyboard would normally reside.

As a bonus, I want firmware-level programming, and I'm talking crazy CH Control Manager Scripting levels of control here, capable of sending a variety of virtual outputs other than normal keystrokes on extra modes/layers/etc. Now that'd be a dream board!
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: agodinhost on Fri, 30 May 2014, 07:18:23
Quote from: jacobolus on Thu, 29 May 2014, 01:18:13
Well definitely try this out and report back, but... note that your row stagger direction goes the opposite way from how you want your fingers to be moving (at least, assuming you’re a typical typist; perhaps you have a unique typing style), so my guess is that this will be quite uncomfortable.

A symmetric stagger the other way takes a bit of learning, but can be quite successful. For example:
Show Image
(http://deskthority.net/w/images/8/88/Mtron1.jpg)


EvillePanda: the folks I know with small hands *love* the μTRON (pictured above), which is designed for tiny Japanese people. It’s pretty expensive and hard to obtain though. :-)

(With my average American-sized hands I find it quite cramped.)
Yes, I already know this one.
I basically got the idea from ergodox and this uTron merging both and using only 1, 1.5 and 3p keycaps.
I do have more two versions, one that is more or less like one ergodox without the thumbs and another version that is square (without the stagging cols) but it's kinda poor.

It will take some time to be build yet, I'm still importing the parts (thanks to JD!)
My plan is to report my user experience and the project itself ...
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Findecanor on Fri, 30 May 2014, 13:18:54
Quote from: jacobolus on Thu, 29 May 2014, 01:18:13
EvillePanda: the folks I know with small hands *love* the μTRON (pictured above), which is designed for tiny Japanese people. It’s pretty expensive and hard to obtain though. :-)
It's not because of the staggering but because the keys are smaller than normal.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: johndavis33 on Sat, 31 May 2014, 08:13:19
60%, metal case, bluetooth with a wired option, trackpoint, PBT doubleshot backlight compatible keycaps, RGB backlights, somehow seperate from the switches,

Because you'll be able to just pop in new switches whenever you want. BS, any color cherry, topre, hall effect, anything can be switched in on the fly.

It's a dream keyboard, right?
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: ideus on Mon, 02 June 2014, 08:33:45
Quote from: johndavis33 on Sat, 31 May 2014, 08:13:19
60%, metal case, bluetooth with a wired option, trackpoint, PBT doubleshot backlight compatible keycaps, RGB backlights, somehow seperate from the switches,

Because you'll be able to just pop in new switches whenever you want. BS, any color cherry, topre, hall effect, anything can be switched in on the fly.

It's a dream keyboard, right?

A dream, close to a fairy tale? Maybe a taco's one.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: ideus on Mon, 02 June 2014, 08:36:34
Quote from: nickr on Thu, 22 May 2014, 23:02:47
This layout where the Fn layer is nearly identical to the Poker II:

Show Image
(http://i58.tinypic.com/mabcet.png)


Your dream is not that far. There is a thread for an IC on a very similar layout, that includes everything to build one.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Andy_Nixeus on Mon, 02 June 2014, 11:10:58
might be overated answer but i want a kmac. haha i like the light option even though i know corsair just brought out their RGB led mechanical keyboard.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: RESPRiT on Mon, 02 June 2014, 11:37:41
Quote from: ideus on Mon, 02 June 2014, 08:36:34
Quote from: nickr on Thu, 22 May 2014, 23:02:47
This layout where the Fn layer is nearly identical to the Poker II:

Show Image
(http://i58.tinypic.com/mabcet.png)


Your dream is not that far. There is a thread for an IC on a very similar layout, that includes everything to build one.

I think it's actually more than just similar. The PCB should be versatile enough to be able to perfectly accommodate that layout. Plus the programmability and BAM, that's a dream mech for probably only around $200, good stuff.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: badman5 on Tue, 03 June 2014, 10:55:34
Probably the Corsair K95 RGB but with Brown switches and maybe a standard layout.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: atlas3686 on Tue, 03 June 2014, 11:35:42
That's easy, 55g HHKB HG (or similar aluminium case)
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: quadibloc on Tue, 03 June 2014, 14:14:30
A Model M comes pretty close.

But my dream board...

It should have a tactile feel comparable to that of a beam spring keyboard. If possible, though, it should also be quiet.

It should have a long lifetime. Perhaps a reed-switch keyboard, with the tactile feel supplied through ball bearings and magnets instead of springs.

The direction of thrust when pressing the keys should be downwards when the keyboard is inclined a moderate amount (10 degrees) rather than perpendicular to the keyboard base or printed circuit board. This means inclining the keyswitches at the base rather than using tilted stems.

The legends on the keys should be centered, as on pre-IBM PC keyboards (or the present-day Poker II).

The keys should be color-coded with clear functional groupings, taking traditional keyboards as inspiration.

Thus:

black printing on white - the numeric keypad
white printing on green - back space, Enter, Tab, ESC; keys that would generate ASCII control characters on a terminal
white printing on gray - the printable characters in the main part of the keyboard
white printing on black - special function keys (Insert, PgUp, Home)
white printing on brown - the function keys
white printing on red - the break key
white printing on blue - +-*/ on the numeric keypad
white printing on yellow - the four cursor keys
black printing on cream - Shift, Ctrl, Alt
black printing on light green - Fn (if used)

Both shift keys and the backspace key must keep their locations as found on the Model M keyboard or an electric typewriter.

I would only leave room to the right of the P key for one other key, presumably | \, so as to have a big Enter key, like on an electric typewriter with 44 keys.

So I would put the {[ and }] keys to the left of !1, putting }] where ~` is now, and I would put ~` under {[, to the left of the Tab key. This does put these little-used keys a bit further out of the way than they formerly were, but the Enter key is used often, and I think that the improvement from making it bigger is worth it. (However, I admit that this rearrangement is something of an impossible dream - what I really would want is an arrangement like that of the Radio Shack Model 100, for APL compatibility, but that would mean changing all the keyboard layouts in Windows.)

(http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/images/ckeyb7.gif)

Note that I don't say if it's 60%, tenkeyless, or full-sized. Each such keyboard has its purpose, and I wouldn't mind having my dream keyboard in all three versions.

Oh, and it should be programmable. Not just in terms of the functions of other keys, but in terms of scan codes. Of course, that's a bit more complicated for a USB keyboard as against a PS/2 keyboard, and today a PS/2 keyboard is of limited usefulness.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: epzy on Tue, 03 June 2014, 14:16:17
A Topre version of the Duck Viper. That keyboard literally have everything I want in a keyboard, except for Topre switches.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Findecanor on Tue, 03 June 2014, 14:50:05
Quote from: epzy on Tue, 03 June 2014, 14:16:17
A Topre version of the Duck Viper. That keyboard literally have everything I want in a keyboard, except for Topre switches.
So, in other words: a HHKB Pro with metal case.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: epzy on Tue, 03 June 2014, 14:55:07
Quote from: Findecanor on Tue, 03 June 2014, 14:50:05
Quote from: epzy on Tue, 03 June 2014, 14:16:17
A Topre version of the Duck Viper. That keyboard literally have everything I want in a keyboard, except for Topre switches.
So, in other words: a HHKB Pro with metal case.

A HHKB Pro 2 with the Viper case, fully programmable, side LEDs & regular LEDs. Not just a HHKB w/ metal case.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Candyflip on Tue, 03 June 2014, 15:00:26
I'd like a duck eagle with implemented function row, with vintage blacks and cherry dyesubs :p
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: newchemicals on Tue, 03 June 2014, 15:13:30
My dream keyboard is an IBM model M SSK with a metal case with white on blue keys and blue on white modifiers and blue LEDs.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 03 June 2014, 17:03:20
Quote from: Findecanor on Tue, 03 June 2014, 14:50:05
Quote from: epzy on Tue, 03 June 2014, 14:16:17
A Topre version of the Duck Viper. That keyboard literally have everything I want in a keyboard, except for Topre switches.
So, in other words: a HHKB Pro with metal case.

http://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/hhkeyboard/hhkbprohg/externals.html
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: RESPRiT on Wed, 04 June 2014, 00:30:50
Quote from: rowdy on Tue, 03 June 2014, 17:03:20
Quote from: Findecanor on Tue, 03 June 2014, 14:50:05
Quote from: epzy on Tue, 03 June 2014, 14:16:17
A Topre version of the Duck Viper. That keyboard literally have everything I want in a keyboard, except for Topre switches.
So, in other words: a HHKB Pro with metal case.

http://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/hhkeyboard/hhkbprohg/externals.html

Eh, I'd rather have the VIPER style case.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Thu, 05 June 2014, 11:59:07
My "dream keyboard" is constantly changing...every time one of these threads comes up, it's become something different. Here's the current version:
(http://i.imgur.com/TjhxLRn.png)
With features:
-Steel plate and case (except around the buttons that are integrated into the case, namely the Fn bar, LMB/RMB, and the arrow keys integrated into the trackball surround-- this has to be plastic with a flexy bit to allow you to click; these sections should be individually removable and replaceable for when the flexy bits wear out).
-PBT doubleshot keycaps.
-Held together entirely with screws, not clips.
-A plastic piece above the plate and covering the tops of the switches, kinda like what the plate on an Azio Levetron does. This piece would be removable, once the keycaps are off, and should be dishwasher safe.
-A top-level-performance sensor for the trackball.
-Trackball should be sealed against liquids/debris.
-Powerful scripting capabilities, but with software to make it easy to use. Note the Fn bar provided for this purpose. Must store in onboard memory and execute in hardware. An integrated flash memory unit will contain the software as well as provide general storage for profiles/scripts/whatever else I might want to carry around.
-High-powered controller and a design that will shave every last possible fraction of a millisecond off of the response time and will allow many scripts to be going at once with no loss of responsiveness.

Not going to specify a switch type, since I'd rather have a varied collection than anything in particular there.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 05 June 2014, 13:13:14
Quote from: FoxWolf1 on Thu, 05 June 2014, 11:59:07
My "dream keyboard" is constantly changing...every time one of these threads comes up, it's become something different. Here's the current version:
Your “dream keyboard” has a bigass enter key? Wow.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Thu, 05 June 2014, 13:16:31
Quote from: jacobolus on Thu, 05 June 2014, 13:13:14
Quote from: FoxWolf1 on Thu, 05 June 2014, 11:59:07
My "dream keyboard" is constantly changing...every time one of these threads comes up, it's become something different. Here's the current version:
Your “dream keyboard” has a bigass enter key? Wow.

Yup!

It's hard to explain, really...I just find there to be something satisfying about having that enormous enter key to press when finishing a line or paragraph. And I don't care at all about changing keycaps, so long as the default ones are a kind that will last indefinitely. So, might as well...
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: RESPRiT on Fri, 06 June 2014, 09:50:07
Fox, you didn't specify so I'm curious, would you want it to be backlit?
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Fri, 06 June 2014, 10:20:13
Quote from: RESPRiT on Fri, 06 June 2014, 09:50:07
Fox, you didn't specify so I'm curious, would you want it to be backlit?

Not sure TBH. On one hand, it's something else that can break, and increases the difficulty of any modding job, with minimal practical benefit. On the other hand, it can look pretty neat.

If it is backlit, it should a) use current limiting rather than PWM for control, and b) should be red-- in both cases, the idea being to make it as friendly as possible from an eyestrain perspective while providing visibility in all light conditions.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Niomosy on Fri, 06 June 2014, 12:34:58
An MS Ergo 4000 with MX reds and centered media keys (including previous/next).  Replace the zoom with a scroll wheel.  Maybe replace some of the other top buttons with more useful stuff. 
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 06 June 2014, 12:36:13
I too dream of a mechanical ergo4k Niomosy. The closest I've found, other than Lanx's mod, is the G80-5000. Which is why I've been on the hunt for one for a while.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: UnlikeAny on Fri, 06 June 2014, 13:50:21
The one that I could type with my mind very fast. It would still have to stimulate the same pleasure as typing on <insert your fav switches> or having sex. There is no difference.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Protato_Tubby on Fri, 06 June 2014, 14:42:46
Quote from: UnlikeAny on Fri, 06 June 2014, 13:50:21
The one that I could type with my mind very fast. It would still have to stimulate the same pleasure as typing on <insert your fav switches> or having sex. There is no difference.
^^ Anything that is going to be connected to the internet and also to my brain; I want to be open source. I want to see the source code to check for Advertising or the NSA.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: flaming_june on Fri, 06 June 2014, 18:11:00
Boy o boy do you folks have some unique and weird dream keyboards.

What I'd like is a realforce 87u 45g in all white pbt keycaps, and red esc key.  However it won't have the arrow keys and pg up/down end etc on the right, instead on the left it would have two columns of six programmable macro keys, 12 in total. 

In addition, big large circular keyboard feet so they keyboard won't slide all over the place.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: user 18 on Fri, 06 June 2014, 18:12:36
My dream board: The one that's connected to a storage system full of other boards, so I can pick which board I want brought to me.

Hey, a guy can dream, right? :P
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Battou62 on Thu, 19 June 2014, 10:39:44
I have been doing a lot of thinking on this. I think I would want a full size ASNI Filco with an Aluminum/Acrylic case, and linear switches with springs that are slightly lighter than Mx Blacks. No leds except for caps, num, and scroll locks. I have no need for programmable pcbs or anything like that. What would be the best way to achieve this?
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: JPG on Thu, 19 June 2014, 10:45:23
Quote from: Battou62 on Thu, 19 June 2014, 10:39:44
I have been doing a lot of thinking on this. I think I would want a full size ASNI Filco with an Aluminum/Acrylic case, and linear switches with springs that are slightly lighter than Mx Blacks. No leds except for caps, num, and scroll locks. I have no need for programmable pcbs or anything like that. What would be the best way to achieve this?


Buy a fullsize filco with reds/black, buy a case that you like and is compatible and buy springs that are in between reds and blacks. But you will need to desolder it all because of the plate in order to change the springs.


Else you buy a custom pcb/plate/case (like from sprit gb) and if you don't want to reprogram and put leds everywhere, you just keep the default layout and don't put more leds. You will still need to solder, get switches and all, but you will have more flexibility and ideally a plate that lets you open switches without desoldering for the time when you will want to try another type of spring or lube or whatever.


That's roughly the 2 main approaches you can have. Both with + and - and different cost.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 19 June 2014, 14:58:30
Quote from: Battou62 on Thu, 19 June 2014, 10:39:44
linear switches with springs that are slightly lighter than Mx Blacks
You don’t know it yet, but what you really want is green complicated Alps switches. The perfect weight, and smoother than “vintage” MX black switches. http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56549.0

(There are nicer linear switches, like http://deskthority.net/wiki/Honeywell_Hall_Effect or http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_Magnetic_Reed for instance, but they’re harder to get working with modern machines.)
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Daspartic on Thu, 19 June 2014, 17:30:24
Beam spring switches, tkl layout, stainless steel case, thick doubleshot pbt caps, and detachable usb cord.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: gameaholic on Thu, 19 June 2014, 17:46:11
dream keyboard(s)

always changing but this is a newer thread so here's the current wish list.

Photeq's Phantom comes close.  The only thing I would change would be to give it a more rectangular case from the side like a KMAC and back lighting. 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/115722906@N08/sets/72157640605854324/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/115722906@N08/sets/72157640605854324/)
(http://i.imgur.com/0NIpgCO.jpg)

couldn't find a side pic of a KMAC

1.  A cherry mx version of the IBM model M SSK.  TKL, Winkeyless, Two Tone Black on Beige GMK Cherry Profile Keycaps, Stepped Caplock. 

2.  Titanium Low Profile Case like a KMAC.  Corsair RGB Backlighting.  TKL, Winkeyless, Two Tone Black on Beige GMK Cherry Profile Keycaps, Stepped Caplock.

3.  IBM SSK ANSI Model F

4.  65%?  (60% but with F row)




Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: "Edgar Allen Pho is Dead." on Thu, 19 June 2014, 19:23:52
This.
(http://www.computerhistory.org/atchm//wp-content/uploads/2012/11/happy.hacking_keyboard_most.expensive.jpg)
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 19 June 2014, 20:55:44
Quote from: anoose on Thu, 19 June 2014, 19:23:52
This.
Show Image
(http://www.computerhistory.org/atchm//wp-content/uploads/2012/11/happy.hacking_keyboard_most.expensive.jpg)



So go buy one :p
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Dragowing193 on Fri, 20 June 2014, 05:50:46
My dream would be a backlit TKL keyboard with a volume dial, probably rotary dial. This volume dial could be pressed down to mute or turn it to change the volume without the nasty fn+F11/12. I would prefer the volume dial to be on the right side.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 20 June 2014, 06:03:20
(http://i.imgur.com/Ic5vAQP.jpg)

I want this 60% M. I believe ClickClack has the only one (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59677.0).
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Latin00032 on Fri, 20 June 2014, 09:25:38
Dream keyboard

Board similar to the small fry.

But, instead of taking of f two rows to the right, only take off one row.

I don't want to rest my pinky on the enter key.

Plus, I'll have at least three more keys to make use as done of the punctuation marks.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Fragil1ty on Fri, 20 June 2014, 23:33:10
A 75% version of the HHKB Pro 2.


e.g. A noppoo but in HHKB form.


Heaven. >;
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Pacifist on Fri, 20 June 2014, 23:33:46
I already got my dream keyboard :)) MX mini w/ full metal case :p
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: ShawnMeg on Sat, 21 June 2014, 00:57:19
+
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: omnigeek on Sat, 21 June 2014, 14:56:23
My dream board is the one I've got: a Northgate Omnikey Ultra, rebuilt with Matias clicky switches.  The Matias switches have a great tactile touch, not too heavy or too light.  F keys on the left, Ctrl next to A and the large cursor keypad (not the inverted T layout).  And let's not forget the bigass Enter key!  Best keyboard I've ever used!
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: rowdy on Sat, 21 June 2014, 18:30:36
Quote from: omnigeek on Sat, 21 June 2014, 14:56:23
My dream board is the one I've got: a Northgate Omnikey Ultra, rebuilt with Matias clicky switches.  The Matias switches have a great tactile touch, not too heavy or too light.  F keys on the left, Ctrl next to A and the large cursor keypad (not the inverted T layout).  And let's not forget the bigass Enter key!  Best keyboard I've ever used!

Living the dream ;D
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: 1391406 on Sat, 21 June 2014, 22:55:26
I already have my dream keyboard. It's a 122-key IBM Model F .
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Pacifist on Sat, 21 June 2014, 22:57:47
Quote from: 1391406 on Sat, 21 June 2014, 22:55:26
I already have my dream keyboard. It's a 122-key IBM Model F .

I'm getting your dream keyboard on monday. Any recommendations on where to put the teensy? Internal or external?
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: 1391406 on Sat, 21 June 2014, 23:05:23
Quote from: Pacifist on Sat, 21 June 2014, 22:57:47
Quote from: 1391406 on Sat, 21 June 2014, 22:55:26
I already have my dream keyboard. It's a 122-key IBM Model F .

I'm getting your dream keyboard on monday. Any recommendations on where to put the teensy? Internal or external?

It really comes down to personal choice, but I built an external variant because I liked the ease with which I can test other keyboards that use that protocol(should I ever acquire one), not to mention I like the nostalgia of having the original cable connected to the keyboard.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Johan on Mon, 30 June 2014, 12:36:10
I would like to try a MX-mini with ergo clears, or another type of lighter springs. It seems like a great layout. I'm not sure how the f-keys would feel though, it might really cramped resulting in tons of errors. I think I'll stick to my filco for now. I just wish the case was a bit more "sturdy"
OffTopic: Can anyone direct me to a acrylic case or a fairly cheap metal case that would fit a TKL ISO Filco?
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: epzy on Mon, 30 June 2014, 13:19:53
Quote from: Johan on Mon, 30 June 2014, 12:36:10
I would like to try a MX-mini with ergo clears, or another type of lighter springs. It seems like a great layout. I'm not sure how the f-keys would feel though, it might really cramped resulting in tons of errors. I think I'll stick to my filco for now. I just wish the case was a bit more "sturdy"
OffTopic: Can anyone direct me to a acrylic case or a fairly cheap metal case that would fit a TKL ISO Filco?

I think bueller might know where to get a cheap, decent acrylic case, so try PM'ing him. You can also look for a Vortex aluminium case, goes for around $90 in the classifieds.
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Pacifist on Mon, 30 June 2014, 13:22:31
Quote from: Johan on Mon, 30 June 2014, 12:36:10
I would like to try a MX-mini with ergo clears, or another type of lighter springs. It seems like a great layout. I'm not sure how the f-keys would feel though, it might really cramped resulting in tons of errors. I think I'll stick to my filco for now. I just wish the case was a bit more "sturdy"
OffTopic: Can anyone direct me to a acrylic case or a fairly cheap metal case that would fit a TKL ISO Filco?
:))
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Photekq on Mon, 30 June 2014, 13:29:42
Quote from: Pacifist on Mon, 30 June 2014, 13:22:31
Quote from: Johan on Mon, 30 June 2014, 12:36:10
I would like to try a MX-mini with ergo clears, or another type of lighter springs. It seems like a great layout. I'm not sure how the f-keys would feel though, it might really cramped resulting in tons of errors. I think I'll stick to my filco for now. I just wish the case was a bit more "sturdy"
OffTopic: Can anyone direct me to a acrylic case or a fairly cheap metal case that would fit a TKL ISO Filco?
:))
What's funny? :confused:
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: Johan on Mon, 30 June 2014, 14:55:07
Quote from: Photekq on Mon, 30 June 2014, 13:29:42
Quote from: Pacifist on Mon, 30 June 2014, 13:22:31
Quote from: Johan on Mon, 30 June 2014, 12:36:10
I would like to try a MX-mini with ergo clears, or another type of lighter springs. It seems like a great layout. I'm not sure how the f-keys would feel though, it might really cramped resulting in tons of errors. I think I'll stick to my filco for now. I just wish the case was a bit more "sturdy"
OffTopic: Can anyone direct me to a acrylic case or a fairly cheap metal case that would fit a TKL ISO Filco?
:))
What's funny? :confused:
I'm very confused :( Is the funny part that I decided to add "off topic" after I strayed from the subject rather than before?
Title: Re: What's your dream keyboard?
Post by: terrpn on Mon, 30 June 2014, 15:09:25
i don't know..............my bolt modded ssk i recently got is pretty close in my book

i know all the many customs and so on out there are pretty nice, but this thang is pretty bangin.........

ok...............i wish i had a king saver-- i said it

that, my ssk and shoot me-- i'm done :cool: