IBM Model M (1995) Keys aren't springing back / registering

[Anonytomas]

Here's the information: I spilled tea on my keyboard, thought it was ok. Noticed keys starting randomly making other keys activate - oh sh** - cleaned it out, no more sticky no more tea - still doing the random key presses. Emailed guy I bought keyboard from at clickykeyboards (2 years ago) - he says clean membranes - My brain hurts.

Must learn bolt-mod. Me take break, come back to keyboard - get the correct head to take bolts off - remove panels - Ooh, insides, yum. More cleaning, super clean everything - wash membranes with soap and water, get tea off success oi.

Me think about using dremel to cut holes in keyboard, scared now. A week passes, me get courage to make holes. Holes success, spend many nights trying to remember how to put it together in reverse so I remember to put membranes in correct order.

Me figure it out, good.. good. Reclean get all that plastic surgery dust out of there. Put back together, thought me missed a spring but had two in space bar, the space bar is a lie, also not enough screws, needed more sandwich. Initial testing promising, key activation success; more testing soon but need to rebuild or else double spring space-bar will haunt me whilst key 9 on number pad stays limp.

Take all apart, hands shake from too much spring removal. Make more holes, clean, rebuild, much more sandwich good bonding now.

(TLDR) Fastforward to now, I have the keyboard all back together without the front plastic piece on so I can easily remove keys and test. Some keys were not clicking and didn't have that spring-spring that we all need in our lives. I smacked them springs around a bit with me fingers and tilted the board, fixed a 6, L, K, V, and more. For some reason Q, A, and ~ all have lost their spring (not the actual spring, but the spring resistance or w/e, jesus) and I have refitted them many times, sometimes they work temporarily but after tapping the key enough it reverts back to being .. bleh.

I have been through enough, someone help, please. I have tried going back and tightening and loosening some of my screws in that area and it seems like it should be all good now. HALP

[Anonytomas]

also I know its not membrane related, I stuck my get-stick down there and key-presses are registering, something to do with spring I guess... ARrrrggggg

I've also identified two keys, Mr. Z and Mr. D that do NOT respect my authority and only register a key-press when I press slightly harder than normal... grrrrrrr

I almost got A working, it's like I re-seat it, then there's that nice feedback and I'm like "oooh yeah" then I start spamming it and the tactile feeling fades away, and no more A key-press registering.

All of my problems seem to be on the western side of this board, but I just tightened the plate up and the springs are sticking out at the right height so I'm just flabbergasted by all of this nonsense...

[y11971alex]

Worst case scenario you need replacement springs.  Might need to adjust tightness of the backplate, barring any connectivity problems with the membrane which is also replaceable.

[fohat.digs]

All of my problems seem to be on the western side of this board, but I just tightened the plate up

Consider that you may be going the wrong way.

I would always start by loosening screws, not tightening them.

You have replaced soft plastic, under little tension, with solid steel that you can put under great tension.

[Moistgun]

Listen to fohat, over tightening can easily be a cause for your issue.

Also, it is possible that you did not reseat all the springs correctly. 
When adding the membrane, film, plate, and screws, some of the springs can very easily pop out of the little notches made for them. If you compound that issue with overtightened bolts, you might need to replace bent springs.

Just take it a little slower when putting it back together, but first take it apart and make sure nothing is off

[Anonytomas]

Welp guys, appreciate all the feedback so far. Between your responses and clickykeyboards, the solution seemed to lie in taking it all apart again and rebuilding it.

So I started to do that. I took out all the springs and keys again, cleaned out the board extra carefully, blew off any dust particles on the membranes. Everything looked great.

Started to reassemble about an hour ago, got up to putting the screws back in after very carefully making sure all the springs were seated perfectly. Turned it around to check spring height and everything looked good. Then I saw that the 3 key's spring was not sticking out and halfway down the hole, somehow it didn't seat correctly.. so now I have to take it all apart again.

since it is so close to the side, I think I will take it apart down to the felt / cloth thing, lift it up slightly and see what's going on with 3 and realign it.

Think that will work? I doubt it.. but let me know what you guys think.

I was able to test the problematic keys, they seemed to have their click back, but I never got to test it through the computer, since that would be a waste of time now that I'm forced to take it apart to fix 3... friggen 3...

[fohat.digs]

Sometimes, if you are very lucky, and the pivot plate is only slightly out of place, you can press straight down on it with something like a toothpick or a pin and shift it laterally by a millimeter or 2 and get it to re-seat itself.

Of course, be careful, and it is possible to damage things, but I have successfully done this several times (in fact, I did it just yesterday) and saved myself taking the whole thing apart and putting it back together.

This can work with either M or F.

[Anonytomas]

I just got back to the screws, took everything out, peeked under the cloth.

A lot of the springs on the far (edit: western) side of the keyboard clearly didn't end up seated correctly.  Tab, Caps lock, W, Q .. and 3 for some reason.

I really don't know why it's those keys doing it, but they seem to not want to stay in by the time I've gotten the bolts on.

The way I'm doing it is I have two old hard cover books on each edge with weight on them so that when I'm laying springs and attaching the membrane, metal piece, etc.. nothing should move.

Is there some technique or perhaps the order of how I screw in the bolts that will prevent springs from getting out of their seats..

Should I just try again since I was able to re-seat those springs? .. I just think it's fishy that springs in that relative area seem to not be cooperating

[Anonytomas]

Update, on the keyboard now. Almost everything is working correctly. Except the down and right arrow key.. just those *sigh* I think I will continue to try playing with screws in that area but so far nothing is working. The spring looks good, seems like the average height, but they don't click and no keypress. They aren't super essential but I like them just as much as the next key.

Remember when I was complaining about that d key earlier requiring more press than other keys? Well I think that problem is because the screws weren't tight enough in that area. I just ran into the problem again with 'k' and was able to tighten up that area which made the key press the same as other keys. I attempted this fix with the two arrow keys in question but so far they are not changing. Will continue to fiddle with them. If you have any advice please let me know, I appreciate the help you guys are giving me!

very close to success, I can smell it

[Anonytomas]

Update 2: I have the keyboard completely reassembled, only problem keys are the bottom and right arrow keys, and 0 (insert) on the numpad. Seems to be isolated in that area. Possibly just springs not seated correctly again maybe not tight enough in the area. Who knows... really tired of dealing with this crap.

Going to take a break for now since 90% of the keyboard works.

[fohat.digs]

I will say it again - too tight is a more often a problem than too loose.

Do yourself a favor and get some scrap wood and a few nails to build a working frame.

[Anonytomas]

I'm calling it a win - 99% functioning. The arrow keys aren't perfect but I've got them to work now with a slightly harder press. I can tell there is a slightly raised area from the screws somewhere above the arrow keys, which is probably what's causing them to be weird, but now they at least work, and 0 (insert) works perfectly. That's just two unused keys that are slightly harder to click.. good enough for me.

Probably in a year or so I will open it back up and try to perfect it, since the first time I had no trouble with the right side of the keyboard, it should be possible to get the whole thing absolutely perfect.

My keyboard feels, different now, not just cleaner but it has a different sound. It's not better or worse, just different,

Thanks for all the help, I will take the wood frame into mind if I ever do this again or work on another similar keyboard.

[fohat.digs]

there is a slightly raised area from the screws somewhere above the arrow keys,

I don't know whether you did a true nut & bolt mod or a "screw" mod, but there is on "hole/place" right around there somewhere near the Enter key that looks like maybe it should get one but actually doesn't. If you have a screw in there unnecessarily, it could be holding the plates apart.

[Anonytomas]

Wow, thanks for the information. That's probably what's going on. Next time I open it up I'll try taking out one screw at a time in that area until I see a difference.

Appreciate it!

[klennkellon]

why were you talking like Tarzan at first?

[Moistgun]

there is a slightly raised area from the screws somewhere above the arrow keys,

I don't know whether you did a true nut & bolt mod or a "screw" mod, but there is on "hole/place" right around there somewhere near the Enter key that looks like maybe it should get one but actually doesn't. If you have a screw in there unnecessarily, it could be holding the plates apart.

Definitely have done this one too many times