Author Topic: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana (Read 22204 times)

DanGWanG · « **on:** Fri, 06 April 2012, 14:34:53 »

I've heard and read many debates about what the effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana would be. And while I am biased, I'm still interested in hearing the economic opinions of fellow Geekhackers.

I'm especially interested in hearing Ripster's opinion

See the image below, and let's discuss. As much as possible, I'd like to stay on topic for this one! It's something I'm passionate about =)

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 47614[/ATTACH]

WRXChris · « **Reply #1 on:** Fri, 06 April 2012, 15:02:01 »

I think that jpg pretty much sums it up, there would be a net positive effect on the economy if the drug war were ended and drugs taxed. Even if it was just marijuana and the rest of the drugs remain illegal.

Look at this image:

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 47616[/ATTACH]

When Nixon enacted the "War on Drugs" incarceration in America skyrocketed. In 1980, there were approx. 227 million people living in America, and less than 500,000 incarcerated. Fast forward to 2006, and there were almost 300 million Americans, but the number incarcerated skyrocketed to 2.5 million people!!!!!!! So our population has risen by approx 32%, but the incarceration rate has risen by over 500% in that same time frame? Who do you think pays the salaries of the police, the jail workers, who builds the jails, who pays for the inmates food? The productive members of our society of course, the ones who take risk and move society forward are held back by these parasites (supporters of the drug war, some of whom smoke weed....talk about effective brainwashing...)

I get really worked up when I think about how broken America is, so I'm going to stop now and take a binger!

Reptile · « **Reply #2 on:** Fri, 06 April 2012, 15:11:20 »

I love how the states that have medical completely surround idaho.

For me it would be a godsend if they even just decriminalized it here. I have served over 100 days in jail due to 3 possessions; each time less than a gram :doh:

fossala · « **Reply #3 on:** Fri, 06 April 2012, 15:15:02 »

Quote from: Reptile;569167

I love how the states that have medical completely surround idaho.

For me it would be a godsend if they even just decriminalized it here. I have served over 100 days in jail due to 3 possessions; each time less than a gram :doh:

That is a bit harsh.

funxion · « **Reply #4 on:** Fri, 06 April 2012, 15:33:43 »

I don't drink, smoke, or do anything drug-related, but marijuana should be legalized. The other junk can stay illegal, but legalizing marijuana (not even just medical) would be a huge benefit to the economy, especially if taxed. The U.S. government is obviously oblivious to the fact that although laws are put in place, people constantly break them regardless of the consequence(s). Why wouldn't they take advantage of a profitable market?

And in response to ripster's incarceration rate reference, I actually chose to present a formal persuasive speech on that topic, which also led to the debate of our tax money being spend ferociously in sectors that don't necessarily benefit us or even the general public. The government's argument is that of throwing people in jails/prisons helps to keep our country free of violence. I personally am led to believe that a good chunk of the reason why crimes occur in the first place is due to the very hefty restraints of the government on our country, such as the legality of marijuana.

keyboardlover · « **Reply #5 on:** Sat, 07 April 2012, 07:19:51 »

I agree that marijuana should be legalized. And eventually, all drugs.

fossala · « **Reply #6 on:** Sat, 07 April 2012, 07:27:32 »

I don't see why we are told what we can do with our bodies. You will get full time drug addicts like you get alcholics, but the majority of people will control themselves.

DanGWanG · « **Reply #7 on:** Sat, 07 April 2012, 10:33:27 »

Quote from: keyboardlover;569716

I agree that marijuana should be legalized. And eventually, all drugs.

I'm not sure I agree with the all drugs part, but certainly medical use of Marijuana should be legalized.

----

I'm not sure America is truly ready yet to really make these available as a non-medical use standard (like cigarettes and alcohol is today), but I truly believe it should be used to treat certain symptoms for relief. This isn't a cure for cancer, but if Vicodin (and other pain meds) exist in the medical realm of treatment, then why shouldn't cannabis be considered?

As far as economics is concerned, I think the regulation aspect of the whole ordeal is really what intrigues me the most. You've all seen those movies where retards buy oregano instead of weed because they didn't know any better. That kind of **** can make someone sick or even kill them in extreme cases. Once it's regulated and checked for quality (which occurs today in a lot of medical dispensaries on the west coast), no one has to worry about the possibility of it being laced with other drugs. Regulation also examines the level of THC and CDC within marijuana so the user can understand the level of "high" they are about to receive, which again, leads to a more controlled environment.

There's also other herbal products on the market that legal across all states, and have similar effects of Marijuana. I recently tried this drink called Marley's Mellow Mood (don't buy this on Amazon, check your local grocery store first...they're usually cheaper). This drink utilizes an herbal root called Valerian root. It's been used forever as an all natural remedy for treating anxiety and insomnia (sounds like Marijuana to me lol). In any case, this drink, even a few sips will start kicking in immediately. Literally, it takes like 10 minutes for you to start feeling drowsy and relaxed. Quite frankly, I would NOT drink this and drive, it is just too ridiculous. But my question is, why is this legal and weed isn't?

I'm going off topic a little here, since I wanted to discuss the economic effects. Again, I really just want to see marijuana regulated more than anything.

noog · « **Reply #8 on:** Sat, 07 April 2012, 10:58:50 »

I am originally from south Texas and have seen first hand the the ill effects drugs like cocaine have, hence I don't believe all drugs should be legalized. Broken homes, murder, prostitution both male and female. It's sick. Marijuana's effects and benefits highly outweigh the reasons for it being illegal. You know **** is effect up when drug dealers are with the federal gov in not wanting it legalized. We never learn that prohibition does not work in cases like this. The economical benefits have been mentioned so I will not repeat them. Legalize, regulate, tax it and watch our economy stabilize. Not totally but it will help drastically.

keyboardlover · « **Reply #9 on:** Sat, 07 April 2012, 12:25:18 »

The idea is that many of the ill effects of hard drugs like cocaine is actually partially caused by their illegality. Definitely the violence, prostitution, etc.

Not to mention the psychological fact that not being able to have something (because it's illegal) makes people want it more.

funxion · « **Reply #10 on:** Sat, 07 April 2012, 13:09:08 »

KL has it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

keyboardlover · « **Reply #11 on:** Sat, 07 April 2012, 13:32:25 »

Can someone tell Malphas about this thread? He seems to think income tax is more viable for some strange reason.

sLeezy · « **Reply #12 on:** Sun, 08 April 2012, 02:27:14 »

I don't participate in any type of drug use but I am for the decriminalization of marijuana and for medicinal use.

I think DangWang's pic sums it up pretty nicely for the pros. Some European countries have decriminalized it and have had very positive impacts on the economy. I think Portugal, one of the most liberal countries in the world, decriminalized all drugs and they have noticed a significant drop crime, in teens that consume marijuana, and a lower use and lower death rate in the more hardcore drugs like heroin and cocaine.

But the problem is that Portugal is pretty small and the effects of decriminalizing marijuana might not have the same outcome in the US. I also think a lot of politics are involved as nobody wants to take the heat for being the "bad guy" as it could potentially ruin their career if things don't turn out well.

The reason why I'm against full legalization of marijuana is because people are money hungry phaggots ie Philip Morris/Altria Group. I can easily see Altria Group become the largest distributor of marijuana in the free market and I can also see them adding additives to make them addictive just like they do to their cigarettes. You can argue that the government will regulate it, but do they regulate cigarettes? They have too much money and too many lobbyists to not get their way.

Anyways, just my 2 cents.

net2522 · « **Reply #13 on:** Sun, 08 April 2012, 02:33:37 »

wink wink

ekw808 · « **Reply #14 on:** Sun, 08 April 2012, 18:58:00 »

Cost to house prison inmates: http://www.ehow.com/about_5409377_average-cost-house-inmates-prison.html times the number of people sent to prison over MJ charges = more savings. Marijuana should be sold like cigarettes but even cheaper to deter people from growing their own. When America wants to make the best of something they come pretty dam close to Japan at being number 1, US government grown MJ is some of the strongest and most potent out there they could easily regulate the amount of THC that could be sold per pack of "cigs" sold. I think I read that Mexico or some South America country was trying to push for the legalization of all drugs, there are countries in Europe that have drugs legalize and have seen a decrease in all sorts of crimes. US needs to get off its ****in pedestal and accept the fact that the tests done years ago were inappropriately executed and as a result has produced false and inaccurate information. Those tests involved giving chimps respirator masks that were pumped with MJ smoke for numerous hours to find out that the chimps had died due to a lack of O2.

DanGWanG · « **Reply #15 on:** Sun, 08 April 2012, 22:38:06 »

I like the passion I see in this thread and it means a lot to see the perspectives of many people, even those who don't engage in usage of marijuana. Two thumbs up to you guys, that understand this needs to happen sooner than later. It's inevitable that this will eventually be legalized and taxed, but let's get the process started. It can't happen if federal and state level government don't start cooperating on this.

I recently started watching this show "American Weed" and it follows a family in Colorado that harvests and dispenses medical marijuana to patients. Obviously, there's some bias here as they only show people buying that are "real" patients, those who are in need by some clinical disease or problem (i.e. cancer patients, severe pain patients, insomnia, etc.). It's starting to intrigue me how many people are looking towards alternative, all natural sources of medicine these days. There are people who move to these counties just to get treatment. Little by little, these counties are starting to deny dispensaries and existing patients are forced to move or buy on the unregulated black market.

How can we deny patients in need of medicine? And how can we be more firm about who gets to have a medicinal license? It's about finding that happy medium, and not just outright make it legal or illegal.

sLeezy · « **Reply #16 on:** Sun, 08 April 2012, 23:46:45 »

[video=youtube;NY6UTnS6Z-A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NY6UTnS6Z-A[/video]

DanGWanG · « **Reply #17 on:** Fri, 27 April 2012, 13:16:42 »

Very informational and good watch, albeit a little outdated.

[video=youtube;qKgY5eOlhEc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKgY5eOlhEc&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]

MyNameIsFinn · « **Reply #18 on:** Fri, 27 April 2012, 14:16:01 »

Marijuana should be legalized for a number of reasons. The amount of money the government could make from taxing it is insane, making it legal can do two things, take away the hole "Its illegal so its more fun to do" factor.. Alternatively it can raise the amount of people buying marijuana because it is now less risky. I personally believe that if something like alcohol is legal which has caused (not directly) many deaths such as car accidents then something like marijuana should be legal.

sth · « **Reply #19 on:** Fri, 27 April 2012, 14:38:57 »

The government needs to spend the money we're already giving them a hell of a lot more responsibly before we vote on legalizing something just to tax it.

Decriminalize, don't legalize.

alaricljs · « **Reply #20 on:** Fri, 27 April 2012, 14:49:27 »

Quote from: MyNameIsFinn;584077

... I personally believe that if something like alcohol is legal which has caused (not directly) many deaths such as car accidents ...

So is it the vehicle being driven by the drunk that's 'directly' responsible, or is it the drunk? Are you considering cirrhosis of the liver and similar as the only direct deaths caused by alcohol? Stupid people do stupid things to kill others, but alcohol is still a major cause of fatal stupidity and should be considered directly responsible.

Personally I think marijuana should be legalized and all taxation funneled straight into public education. edit: let me be clear on that. Actual schooling K-12 type stuff, not anti-drugs education.

silat · « **Reply #21 on:** Sat, 28 April 2012, 04:40:18 »

The cons and their privatizing of prisons will fight legalized mary jane to the death. They need inmates...

leoblack9 · « **Reply #22 on:** Fri, 25 May 2012, 10:30:12 »

Me and my buddies somehow had a weed-related discussion like this (no we were not high then and I never smoked weed before) and they always brought up the point that if Marijuana was legalized the tobacco industry would be devastated because everybody can and would probably grow weed for self-consumption, which cannot be done with tobacco plants.

keyboardlover · « **Reply #23 on:** Fri, 25 May 2012, 10:48:10 »

Not necessarily. Would depend how it's regulated.

leoblack9 · « **Reply #24 on:** Fri, 25 May 2012, 11:08:05 »

Well I've been hearing conspiracies that it was the huge tobacco companies that prevent its legalization. While tobacco and alcohol products are legal the rather less harmful of the ones mentioned is the one that's not legalized (erm, weed).

sth · « **Reply #25 on:** Sat, 26 May 2012, 18:12:41 »

Quote from: leoblack9;599918

Well I've been hearing conspiracies that it was the huge tobacco companies that prevent its legalization. While tobacco and alcohol products are legal the rather less harmful of the ones mentioned is the one that's not legalized (erm, weed).

Don't forget the paper and textile industries.

silat · « **Reply #26 on:** Sat, 26 May 2012, 19:19:06 »

Biggest financial effect: Repubes create a new multi trillion dollar give away to big pharma

Findecanor · « **Reply #27 on:** Sat, 26 May 2012, 19:50:43 »

Legalizing for medicinal purposes does not necessarily imply making it free for everyone to grow and use. I think that marijuana should be treated as any other medicine - administered by subscription only, as pills, tinctures, injection, infusion (as tea) or whatever would be a good method for ingesting the active substances, but not as something that can be smoked.
I am strongly against smoking - of any drug, because smoking is an effective way of spreading drug-addiction to people who don't want to become addicts -- which includes everyone who isn't an addict already.
In the case of smoking tobacco, no tobacco smoker has chosen to become a smoker. There are those who say that they have chosen, but they don't know better, because they are addicts. Practically all tobacco addicts are addicts because they had been subjected to enough second-hand smoke to trigger the addiction.
Smoking is also a stupid way of ingesting drugs, because it also produces many harmful chemicals such as carbon monoxide and so called "tar" - which consists of literally thousands of chemicals (slow-burning a chemical does not combust the chemical properly, but turns into many variants between uncombusted and combusted, and these half-combusted chemicals can be more reactive and therefore dangerous).

People who want to legalize marijuana (for everyone) often compare it to tobacco, and say that if tobacco is free to use then marijuana should also be.
They don't see that the legality of tobacco is a special case: Tobacco is legal because of pressure from tobacco companies but mostly because the number of addicts is significant enough. If it's use had not become popular early so that there was a large amount of addicts at the beginning of the 20th century, then it would also have been made illegal at about that time, and we may now have discussed tobacco instead of marijuana.

That said, I think that the US is sentencing people too harshly overall. Possession of a small amount of marijuana without a license or medical cause should give you a fine. Maybe a short prison term if you are caught with the third time, or something like that.

alaricljs · « **Reply #28 on:** Sat, 26 May 2012, 21:03:19 »

Quote from: Findecanor;600979

In the case of smoking tobacco, no tobacco smoker has chosen to become a smoker. There are those who say that they have chosen, but they don't know better, because they are addicts. Practically all tobacco addicts are addicts because they had been subjected to enough second-hand smoke to trigger the addiction.

Well, I get to be the exception to the rule then. I chose to pick up smoking, smoked for 3 years and then dropped it cold turkey. The hot non-smoker blonde I started dating the next day was good incentive, but there was nothing difficult about it for me.

DanGWanG · « **Reply #29 on:** Sat, 26 May 2012, 21:37:28 »

Quote from: Findecanor;600979

Legalizing for medicinal purposes does not necessarily imply making it free for everyone to grow and use. I think that marijuana should be treated as any other medicine - administered by subscription only, as pills, tinctures, injection, infusion (as tea) or whatever would be a good method for ingesting the active substances, but not as something that can be smoked.
I am strongly against smoking - of any drug, because smoking is an effective way of spreading drug-addiction to people who don't want to become addicts -- which includes everyone who isn't an addict already.
In the case of smoking tobacco, no tobacco smoker has chosen to become a smoker. There are those who say that they have chosen, but they don't know better, because they are addicts. Practically all tobacco addicts are addicts because they had been subjected to enough second-hand smoke to trigger the addiction.
Smoking is also a stupid way of ingesting drugs, because it also produces many harmful chemicals such as carbon monoxide and so called "tar" - which consists of literally thousands of chemicals (slow-burning a chemical does not combust the chemical properly, but turns into many variants between uncombusted and combusted, and these half-combusted chemicals can be more reactive and therefore dangerous).

People who want to legalize marijuana (for everyone) often compare it to tobacco, and say that if tobacco is free to use then marijuana should also be.
They don't see that the legality of tobacco is a special case: Tobacco is legal because of pressure from tobacco companies but mostly because the number of addicts is significant enough. If it's use had not become popular early so that there was a large amount of addicts at the beginning of the 20th century, then it would also have been made illegal at about that time, and we may now have discussed tobacco instead of marijuana.

That said, I think that the US is sentencing people too harshly overall. Possession of a small amount of marijuana without a license or medical cause should give you a fine. Maybe a short prison term if you are caught with the third time, or something like that.

How do you feel about vaporization of tobacco or marijuana?

keyboardlover · « **Reply #30 on:** Sat, 26 May 2012, 23:10:00 »

I personally found it a HELL of a lot harder to quit weed than tobacco. Of course, I never smoked cigarettes anywhere NEAR as often.

When I quit weed I hardly slept for a whole week. That was like 5-6 years ago.

cactux · « **Reply #31 on:** Wed, 20 June 2012, 18:34:45 »

Mr. dop (DanW) do not worry people love junkies,(you know what I mean ;-b )

MMB · « **Reply #32 on:** Wed, 20 June 2012, 19:03:22 »

Quote from: DanGWanG;601039

How do you feel about vaporization of tobacco or marijuana?

I only use a vaporizer. Want to keep my lungs intact.

Here is what I use:

http://www.amazon.com/7th-Floor-Life-Saber-Vaporizer/dp/B004Y6W8TM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pdT1_S_nC?ie=UTF8&coliid=I3GJ61V1ATKDFR&colid=112IZUU5T73VL

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 53510[/ATTACH]

WRXChris · « **Reply #33 on:** Wed, 20 June 2012, 19:21:24 »

I have one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Arizer-Extreme-Q-Herbal-Vaporizer-2-Bonus-Balloons-/180803756532?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a18be61f4#ht_2811wt_1164

It's like a cheap knockoff version of the Volcano; the bags take a lot longer to fill than the Volcano but you get a greater density of thc vapor. Never been a fan of whip-style vaporizers for some reason (though my vape also has a whip).

I like vaporizers, but THC has a lower vaporization temperature than many of the other active cannabinoids, so you don't get the same psycho-active effects as when smoking. I prefer a healthy mix of smoking and vaporizing, and the occasional ingestion of cannabis-infused edibles when I know my agenda is clear for the day!

sth · « **Reply #34 on:** Wed, 20 June 2012, 19:23:04 »

The friggin hell is wrong with you chumps, learn to roll a cone or Quit Doing Pot.

DanGWanG · « **Reply #35 on:** Wed, 20 June 2012, 19:23:07 »

Must be nice to live in Boulder =)

MMB · « **Reply #36 on:** Wed, 20 June 2012, 19:24:03 »

Quote from: WRXChris;618202

I have one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Arizer-Extreme-Q-Herbal-Vaporizer-2-Bonus-Balloons-/180803756532?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a18be61f4#ht_2811wt_1164

It's like a cheap knockoff version of the Volcano; the bags take a lot longer to fill than the Volcano but you get a greater density of thc vapor. Never been a fan of whip-style vaporizers for some reason (though my vape also has a whip).

I like vaporizers, but THC has a lower vaporization temperature than many of the other active cannabinoids, so you don't get the same psycho-active effects as when smoking. I prefer a healthy mix of smoking and vaporizing, and the occasional ingestion of cannabis-infused edibles when I know my agenda is clear for the day!

Edibles are my favorite.

cactux · « **Reply #37 on:** Wed, 20 June 2012, 19:24:38 »

Dam W , What about you in which planet you are right now?

MMB · « **Reply #38 on:** Wed, 20 June 2012, 19:27:47 »

Quote from: cactux;618207

Dam W , What about you in which planet you are right now?

I don't know about Dan, but I am in a completely different Galaxy right now. Not sure the name of the planet, but it's pretty epic...

TexasFlood · « **Reply #39 on:** Wed, 20 June 2012, 19:28:31 »

Boulder, for work or school? It's a nice, if relatively pricey, place to live. Not really much available real estate IN Boulder and the zoning is crazy but lots of sprawl area. Gotta watch it driving around the CU campus, the students just walk out in front of you like they're daring you to run them over. I thought they taught the laws of physics there but must not teach that car trumps pedestrian.

sth · « **Reply #40 on:** Wed, 20 June 2012, 19:28:36 »

Quote from: MagicMeatball;618212

I don't know about Dan, but I am in a completely different Galaxy right now. Not sure the name of the planet, but it's pretty epic...

WRXChris · « **Reply #41 on:** Wed, 20 June 2012, 19:33:49 »

Moving there for fun! Gotta spend at least a year or 2 in close proximity to the Rockies since I'm about to turn 30, starting to get old, lol. Yeah Boulder has some quirks, and I'm sure I'll run into the entitlement-minded douches, but it can't be much worse than the suburbs of DC. I plan on finding a job within the city and bike to work and stuff. The food is fantastic, there are plenty of tech industry jobs, great ganj, great mountain biking, snowboarding, etc. True, real estate is high, but I'll save the difference in rent by not having to pay for commuting gas. T-minus a few weeks!

TexasFlood · « **Reply #42 on:** Wed, 20 June 2012, 19:36:38 »

Sounds like fun, I'm jealous, I never seem to take advantage of the benefits of the places I live. It is a great place. Monk and Mindy was filmed there. OK just the exterior shots but still...

DanGWanG · « **Reply #43 on:** Wed, 20 June 2012, 19:38:03 »

Slightly off-topic, what's the typical rent there in a decent location for a 1 bedroom?

TexasFlood · « **Reply #44 on:** Wed, 20 June 2012, 19:41:49 »

Quote from: DanGWanG;618226

Slightly off-topic, what's the typical rent there in a decent location for a 1 bedroom?

http://www.boulderrent.com/

And seriously, watch the CU students, or you're run them over.
I almost did, in Boulder and once in Hollywood to.

WRXChris · « **Reply #45 on:** Wed, 20 June 2012, 19:42:14 »

I've only been looking at places that accept dogs, specifically pit bulls which REALLY limits me, but the cheapest I've found is $800-900. I'm guessing without a dog, you could find a mediocre apartment in a decent location for 7-800.

DanGWanG · « **Reply #46 on:** Wed, 20 June 2012, 19:44:13 »

Looks like I can get a pretty nice 1BR/1BA for under $1300...which is about what I pay here in Chicago, unless it's in a really crappy area of Boulder lol

WRXChris · « **Reply #47 on:** Wed, 20 June 2012, 19:48:17 »

Oh for sure, my budget is much lower than that, and even with the dog I'm not too concerned about finding a place to live. More concerned about finding the job to support it and my various addictions..I mean hobbies, in this post-Wall Street-greed economy!

DanGWanG · « **Reply #48 on:** Wed, 20 June 2012, 19:49:21 »

Boulder just may be my Bay Area alternative then...

WRXChris · « **Reply #49 on:** Wed, 20 June 2012, 19:52:36 »

lol that's what I was planning on doing...well not really bay area, a bit further north in Humboldt county (got family there), but it's kinda boring up there full time. Decided on Boulder because of the outdoorness factor and my starting to get old thing, and if I end up not liking it, Cali is next!

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Author Topic: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana (Read 22204 times)

fossala

fossala