Furthermore, this is a wonderful layout;Show Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=92403.0;attach=181443;image)
If there is any way the PCB/plate could support this but with a regular left shift and a split backspace (with the lesser/more than key being there rather than next to L shift) then it'd be perfect. I'm a very big fan of both 60% with arrows as well as ANSI with an ISO enter so this is the best of both worlds for me.
Love how brutalist this is...
Lets have a render in silver so we can make out the details of the case.
Love how brutalist this is...
I actually thought about using that word when describing the design :)
I'll try to incorporate your questions/wishes in the form.
Love how brutalist this is...
I actually thought about using that word when describing the design :)
I'll try to incorporate your questions/wishes in the form.
Haha, there's no need for that. Good design speaks for itself.
EDIT: By the way after using a 75% (kbd75) exclusively for a year, I see there's a need for improvement. The 75% layout is convenient, but it's far from being comfortable.
The f-row is congested, as there's zero spacing between F3 & F4, F8 & F9 like you'd normally see on a TKL. even harder to navigate. What makes this even worse is the same key profile of these two rows. In my opinion, a little negative space like this will do wonders in such a tight layout.
The way that your case is made just like a plate, I think it's entirely possible to leave a bit of material on the case without adding more cost. I think you should take advantage of that. I never dared to suggest this to other customs' interest check, because CNC milling for the same result will cost a lot more. Below is the Toshiba T3200 with a raised f-row, I guess the designer must have had a similar train of thought. As you can see, the separation doesn't add much space and it still remains highly compact.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/21snE.jpg)
I think the 60% looks the best, but I consider 75% a more useful layout.
awesome but also expensive CNC aluminium cases.
awesome but also expensive CNC aluminium cases.
Why not CNC? Keyboard enthusiasts don't care about costs. We would pay whatever you want for a nice 65% case.
OK,
let me give u a few more words regarding color. sliver and black are the two standard "colors" you can choose from when you want to anodize. the company I'm doing this at is not specialized at fancy color stuff (just like most of the others who do oberflächentechnik / surface treatment here). they do mostly silver/black, everything else is more expensive. I had a project where I did gold, but for a keyboard this is not going to happen - not with me. also the form clearly shows, that the vast majority is fine with black. however I will get some more info on how big the difference in price would be - but that does not mean I'm actually considering something other than black :)
so far 64 people have filled out the form, which is ok, i think. no doubt most of you want the high profile version (without wrist rest).
so here is another question regarding the high profile. forgot to put it into the form. I actually had mentioned this in the opening post already and I think I know what you want, but I wanna make sure. so the renders of the 75% hight-profile version (the one with the black keycaps) is an older version. caps start level with the frame. then I made changes, let the frame rise a little more so the caps sink in 1mm, that's what you see on the 60% standard and 60% YAS version renderings. but maybe most of you want the caps to sink in more that just 1mm? so I guess I'll change that to 2mm before you get more renderings and detail?
I'm really digging the industrial feel of this case, nice work. I agree stainless steel would be a really nice option otherwise black is fine. Any chance you'd be able to source anodized screws to accent the case, such as these: https://www.moddiy.com/products/Premium-M3-x-6mm-Socket-Head-Anodized-Aluminum-Screw.html
I'd love to see a 75% case, but would probably do a tkl too.
I'm really digging the industrial feel of this case, nice work. I agree stainless steel would be a really nice option otherwise black is fine. Any chance you'd be able to source anodized screws to accent the case, such as these: https://www.moddiy.com/products/Premium-M3-x-6mm-Socket-Head-Anodized-Aluminum-Screw.html
I'd love to see a 75% case, but would probably do a tkl too.
are you deciding on one model only based on the form results or in consideration for more than one?
Oh and ps: is numpad being considered also
make this 60% winkeyless possible please !
make this 60% winkeyless possible please !
Dont you greedy 60% have enough options?
make this 60% winkeyless possible please !
Dont you greedy 60% have enough options?
looks like a bent m65
looks like a bent m65
agreed
## 21
### @Puddsy
Oh, you don't know how much I enjoy answering to this comment.
The "look" of the case is not inspired by any other case. I don't have any specific look in mind when I start with a design. I had a concept in mind which I thought was worthy to explore. Construction, material and certain features make up the cornerstones which define the "look" or "style". look or style is what many mistakenly regard as design but to me design is the whole process from idea to final product. look/style is never the idea or inspiration to start a design.
Bending metal is not a new idea of course, but doing so with an overly high thickness and applying it in this context is something I haven't seen jet. Bending metal this thick leads to a certain edge radius and requires the frame to have a certain width; fitting the screw heads into the frame requires the frame to be even a little bit more wide. The case is not made to look like case XY, instead its look
derives entirely from choices like construction and material.
YEP, 2 mm it is.
also I made the lower 6 degree angle possible - a lot seem to like it. That caused quite some changes, bu it think I was able to incorporate it quite well.
awesome but also expensive CNC aluminium cases.
Why not CNC? Keyboard enthusiasts don't care about costs. We would pay whatever you want for a nice 65% case.
Goodluck OP I am out there far to many 60% cases for less then 100bucks as is...
Goodluck OP I am out there far to many 60% cases for less then 100bucks as is. I mean can name a few right off the bat.
https://kbdfans.myshopify.com/collections/case/products/customized-gh60-aluminum-case <-- 45 bucks and is 60%
https://kbdfans.myshopify.com/collections/case/products/mechanical-keyboard-shell-anode-aluminum-shell-gh60-poker-60-mechanical-keyboard-shell <--- 73
https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1002 <--- 69
https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=629 <--- 119
I know the original attention was to bring something cheaper and unique to the market least that what I thought you where shooting for. I am not sure thought it will be cheaper unless you can some how break the 45 dollar barrier. Unique still but was really hoping for something outside the 60% form factor we always see and as you can tell.. there are a multitude of options at various prices ranges.
I'd really love to offer everybody his favored solution, but at some point I'll have to make a choice and no matter what that choice may be there will always be someone not happy with it. I myself would be very happy with 75% as well as I have two nice 75% PCBs laying around here waiting to be put to use. But as you already know I'm fine with 60% too, since two YAS PCB's are also soon to be mine.
let me just show you the results of the form regarding the sizes:
(Attachment Link)
all 60% together are clearly in the lead. however if the new form will not favor the "everybody gets his 60" way, then 75% will be the single most favored version.
so let's wait and see. I really need more opinions on that.
I'm really not sure at the moment which way will lead to the best solution.
Btw the new screws is no set thing, more a try.
Not sure about the screw not countersunk anymore :/
Edit: WHY YOU MUST ASK BETWEEN PIZZA AND CALZONE :-X
About layout, I primarily use XD75RE, but maybe I'm the only one here, so if possible I wanna ask the drawing of the outer cut of the plate and I can draw the switch hole and cut myself (or the reverse, I send you the drawing of the switch hole and you edit the drawing and send it back to me).
I'm definetely join for 60% especially for YAS62.
I know there's many people who wouldn't agree with this layout because hard to grab PCB after missed GB. But i can throw 70 extras PCB after i'm done shipping all PCB from last GB.
I am interested in YAS62 if it will be possible to get PCB later.
6u or 6.25u spacebar. There was no 6.25u option on your google form !
I am interested in YAS62 if it will be possible to get PCB later.
6u or 6.25u spacebar. There was no 6.25u option on your google form !
yes, sorry, that was a confusing move from me. thought 6.25U spacebar version would be less interesting cause it has only two modifier keys to the left of the spacebar. where would you program your fn key on this version? to capslock, like possible on poker boards?
the three mm thickness is more than enough for countersunk screws. actually because i wanted countersunk screws so badly at the beginning, they are the reason I pumped up the thickness to 3mm. then I realized it makes a pretty unique look as well.
but flathead screws have their own advantages and I think they also fit the whole style pretty well.
I agree with you with regard to countersunk screws. I was talking about socket heads which requires a counterbore though. 3mm is usually not deep enough for counterboring
OK, after some consultation with the manufacturer I'm now planning to offer all 60% versions AS WELL AS 75%.
though my usual preference is for 75% boards is with 7u spacebar
Super Idee und sehr hübsch noch dazu! :D Having a 60% case with bezel that is kind of affordable is a dream come true. As a vanilla kind of guy I hope a standard row, 60% case is happening. But I'm confused, would such a case fit a pok3r PCB?
Super Idee und sehr hübsch noch dazu! :D Having a 60% case with bezel that is kind of affordable is a dream come true. As a vanilla kind of guy I hope a standard row, 60% case is happening. But I'm confused, would such a case fit a pok3r PCB?
pok3r PCB aswell as pretty much any 60 PCB will fit.
However since the case is top mount you can’t use default 60% plates.
This means if you disassemble a poker for the pcb you will have to desolder all the switches to change the plate, which is probably not worth the trouble.
Just get any 60 pcb to build with =)
Regarding the layout I’m pretty sure Plastik will add standard layout support.
Current Idea is to make specific plates for most popular layouts aswell as a universal one to cover everything else.
Thank you both for your answers! :) But please have some patience with me. If I get your answer right then the pok3r plate would be fine? Because there are holes in the plate above all the screws.
@FoC_Tow:
thanks very much, couldn't have explained it any better.
here are some detail shots:
[attach=1
I think you should keep the button screws. :p
is was asked if a "true" HHKB style bottom row, with asymmetrical blockers will also be available.
I thought that is not possible with the GH60satan PCBs or am I mistaken here?
If this layout is achievable with one of the widely available PCBs, then I'll consider it.
There definitely are PCBs supporting this, but it’s very rare as far as I know.
Tbh I can’t think of a single one except for Spirits acrylic cases/pcbs.
Is the option of steel vs aluminum still open?
PLATE LAYOUTS!
I had mentioned my plans regarding the plate layouts before. I'll put up another form to determine what the most popular layouts are. The most popular layouts will get a dedicated, non-universal plate!!!
the less popular ones will be bundled together in a universal plate.
before I'll put up a form for this I wanna get you opinions about the layouts that should be up to choose from. wanna sort out mistakes before the form so it wont be confusing. so this is what I think would be up to choose from:
60% options:
There definitely are PCBs supporting this, but it’s very rare as far as I know.
Tbh I can’t think of a single one except for Spirits acrylic cases/pcbs.
thanks, so I think I'll better leave it out.Is the option of steel vs aluminum still open?
here are the results regarding the plate material:
[attach=1]
although more want alu I first wanted to go with steel anyway. BUT: I did renderings with a blank steel plate and the blank steel shines/reflects very intense through the gaps between the caps. I'd prefer it to be dark/no-light/shadowy between the caps, think you know what I mean. so alu anodized just like the top and bottom parts would be the best fit in my opinion.
I'm part of the 48%, quite a high number to ignore imho. The benefits of steel over aluminum is numerous and personally i dont mind the shine and wouldnt there be an option to coat the steel plate?
I just updated the opening post with new renderings of the 75% version.
There you also see another screw version, which someone pointed out to me. These ones (not the M3 version in the pic):
(Attachment Link)
I totally fell in love with them!
quick update regarding HHKB.
Until now I wasn't aware, that also 6U "true HHKB" isn't hard to do. there are PCBs for that available too, like the DZ60 for example. btw here is the link to a really nice keycap GB which is especially tailored to HHKB: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92210.0
so for all who are interested in an HHKB version, please let me know which would be more to your liking, 7U or 6U:
quick update regarding HHKB.
Until now I wasn't aware, that also 6U "true HHKB" isn't hard to do. there are PCBs for that available too, like the DZ60 for example. btw here is the link to a really nice keycap GB which is especially tailored to HHKB: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92210.0
so for all who are interested in an HHKB version, please let me know which would be more to your liking, 7U or 6U:
Is there a new form or do we just post regarding layout choices?
quick update regarding HHKB.
Until now I wasn't aware, that also 6U "true HHKB" isn't hard to do. there are PCBs for that available too, like the DZ60 for example. btw here is the link to a really nice keycap GB which is especially tailored to HHKB: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92210.0
so for all who are interested in an HHKB version, please let me know which would be more to your liking, 7U or 6U:
When I am definitely going to get the YAS62 case and the 75% case (still don't have money yet at this moment of typing this message), I am split if I should get a 3rd case which will be either a HHKB-7u space or a HHKB-6u space.
To me the 'HHKB' with 7u spacebar is more symmetrical and therefore is prettier. But it is less ergonomic than the "true HHKB", i.e. HHKB with 6u spacebar because in a true HHKB the modifier keys on the spacebar row are designed to be accessed by the thumbs. Having a shorter, e.g. 6u or even shorter spacebar will facilitate accessing these spacebar row modifiers with thumbs and minimize hand movements while having a spacebar too long will make it harder to access those keys with the thumbs. And the philosophy of HHKB design is also that the user should not use the pinkies to access the lower corner keys as the movement is uncomfortable and unnatural from the home-position normal typing movements, and therefore the design decided to leave those spaces empty instead.
I just updated the opening post with new renderings of the 75% version.
There you also see another screw version, which someone pointed out to me. These ones (not the M3 version in the pic):
(Attachment Link)
I totally fell in love with them!
One thing I would like you to consider though, is to add stepped caps support. It's a relatively small change (0.25u extension to the capslock cutout), is low key enough that it will still look good on any plate, and there's bound to be at least a few chaps here in the enthusiast community who prefer stepped caps to normal capslock (but then again perhaps I'm just projecting my own preferences here)
I'm part of the 48%, quite a high number to ignore imho. The benefits of steel over aluminum is numerous and personally i dont mind the shine and wouldnt there be an option to coat the steel plate?
coating the steel plate black would of course be possible. BUT: the added layer of coating might make it pretty difficult to get the switches in - I'd like to avoid possible problems like this.
also, I think that steel is very important when u have a universal plate with lots of big cutouts. there the higher strength of steel is very much needed. but since I'll offer specialized/non-unified plates AND my plate has a pretty wide border cause of it being top-mount, alu should be absolutely fine.
and: 52.1% VS 47.9%
Is there a new form or do we just post regarding layout choices?
there will be a new form for the layouts.
but I posted all those layouts ahead because I want to know from you if the choices are OK. maybe I've left out very important ones or something just doesn't make sense. just wanted to get some feedback before the actual form. this way I just want to make sure the form will make sense and not cause confusion.
according to the first feedback, I can already tell, that I'll need to include the 2x1U instead of 1x2U backspace for 75% and the short left shift for ANSI YAS.
One thing I would like you to consider though, is to add stepped caps support. It's a relatively small change (0.25u extension to the capslock cutout), is low key enough that it will still look good on any plate, and there's bound to be at least a few chaps here in the enthusiast community who prefer stepped caps to normal capslock (but then again perhaps I'm just projecting my own preferences here)
Of course!
Look here:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92403.msg2526993#msg2526993
Yes, it’s hard to keep track.
Sunken screws would be better of course. Screws in 75% look like typing would end up with finger injuries.
I used to be on the counter sunk screws Side of things, but the other screw types kinda grew on me tbh.
quick update regarding HHKB.
Until now I wasn't aware, that also 6U "true HHKB" isn't hard to do. there are PCBs for that available too, like the DZ60 for example. btw here is the link to a really nice keycap GB which is especially tailored to HHKB: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92210.0
so for all who are interested in an HHKB version, please let me know which would be more to your liking, 7U or 6U:
quick update regarding HHKB.
Until now I wasn't aware, that also 6U "true HHKB" isn't hard to do. there are PCBs for that available too, like the DZ60 for example. btw here is the link to a really nice keycap GB which is especially tailored to HHKB: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92210.0
so for all who are interested in an HHKB version, please let me know which would be more to your liking, 7U or 6U:
ANY CHANCE we could get a Katana60 layout? or at least a plateless variant, so I can use my own?
Also fingerprints are very visible.
You just don’t see them if the finish is not dark enough.Also fingerprints are very visible.
why? http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=580/how-to-finish-aluminum/
Ultra fine glass beads produce a soft appearance similar to Apple’s Macbook:
Macbooks don't attract fingerprints.
Also fingerprints are very visible.
why? http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=580/how-to-finish-aluminum/
Ultra fine glass beads produce a soft appearance similar to Apple’s Macbook:
Macbooks don't attract fingerprints.
You just don’t see them if the finish is not dark enough.
In for a 75%. Would prefer to have a universal plate with flexible bottom row but will settle for standard ISO with 7u spacebar and 1.5u mods if we're not doing universal plates
You just don’t see them if the finish is not dark enough.
I think bead blasted finishes don't show fingerprints regardless if the afterwards anodize is of dark or light color. I think that's due to the roughness of the surface.
Why are there only split spacebar options with YAS tops but not with HHKBs?
Banana split could be used for split space HHKB, if the blockers are for the 7U space HHKB layout.Why are there only split spacebar options with YAS tops but not with HHKBs?
HHKB with split spacebar?
which commonly available PCB would support that?
I can look into it, maybe it's possible without messing up the plate.
---
btw,
the last form shows the 7U hhkb far ahead of the 6U. that's why you see the plate supporting only 7U, not 6U at the moment.
Honestly I’m not a fan of the new YAS plates, but it’s better then no YAS support so I keep telling my self I’m ok with it.
Honestly I think it would make more sense to combine the regular Ansi and ISO 60 Plates, since
a) only enter & left shift need to be combined
b) this wouldn’t result in huge cutouts
c) this would allow to use iso enter combined with full left shift
d) this is commonly done and was already done for the 75% plates
I can definitely understand the reasoning behind reducing part count as much as possible.
However the new yas plate is kinda pushing to the point where lots of people including me might be put off by the huge cutouts.
Could you by any chance supply the files for the old yas plates pretty please so we can source our own ?
I like the case design, but as someone who does not want 7u spacebars the plate options are not my cup of tea, but I have that problem with a lot of cases and I know I am a minority. Unlike most I would love to see other cases that offer true HHKB layout (6u but I can understand sticking with 6,25 for compatibility) instead of going for symmetrical blockers (I know there is the Tina A, but nothing else).
GL anyways
Honestly I’m not a fan of the new YAS plates, but it’s better then no YAS support so I keep telling my self I’m ok with it.
Honestly I think it would make more sense to combine the regular Ansi and ISO 60 Plates, since
a) only enter & left shift need to be combined
b) this wouldn’t result in huge cutouts
c) this would allow to use iso enter combined with full left shift
d) this is commonly done and was already done for the 75% plates
I can definitely understand the reasoning behind reducing part count as much as possible.
However the new yas plate is kinda pushing to the point where lots of people including me might be put off by the huge cutouts.
Could you by any chance supply the files for the old yas plates pretty please so we can source our own ?
I feel with you. I'm in for two YAS pcb's myself and would be happier with a more specified plate for it as well. The thing is, based on the forms I estimate YAS orders somewhere around 20. Making two different plates for only that much is just insane.
The standard plates look really good and enable a lot of popular layouts like standard 1.25U bottom row, 7U spacebar, WKL and HHKB - these combined have by far the highest request. Integrating split spacebar support was not a problem.
a-d) all valid arguments. I have to admit I might have misjudged the whole "super-special-dedicated" plate thing I brought up. After all I haven't read one comment that expressed excitement about ANSI/ISO separation (tbh there is one). But even If I combined ANSI/ISO, that still wouldn't justify two separate YAS plates for roughly 20 people.
Also the requests for banana and DZ60 arrow-cluster layouts came up. Neither of the two can be combined with the standard plates, since their arrow-clusters would mess up the plate. Making one plate that combines most of the YAS layouts already results in huge cutouts. So bringing it banana/DZ60 arrow-cluster support doesn't make it a lot worse - since it already is. However I think that the wider frame of the plate helps a lot in terms of stability.
Another solution would be to offer just one of the two YAS plates I showed previously, so drop more than half of the YAS options and also drop banana/DZ60 arrow-cluster support entirely.
Of course I will post the DXF for the plate, so anyone who wishes will be able to make his own. But I will only post it when it's 100% sure that no more changes will happen, otherwise different versions might float around.
I'll have to make a choice soon, can't let this drag on for ever. I'd really appreciate some more feedback.
I want YAS-A plate. 6u spacebar.
I am pretty bummed about the lack of a 6u HHKB top case option, but I'll be fine with ANSI winkeyless if that one makes the cut.
I am pretty bummed about the lack of a 6u HHKB top case option, but I'll be fine with ANSI winkeyless if that one makes the cut.
I was surprised to see the 7U spacebar leading buy a lot in the poll.
But that’s what it says, so no 6U version, sorry.
Don’t worry, WKL will definitely be!
Now I’m on holiday. No pc and keyboard until next year. I plan to begin the GB then quickly.
Another thing I want to mention:
A slight mayority voted for the plate material to be alu over steel. Don’t really know why. I will override this one and go for steel. I’ll figure out if black powder coating can be done at the same factory to keep things simple. Would’t Like the blank steel to shine through between the keys.
Steel is just the better material for the plate compared to alu.
Happy New Year Plastik! =)
I want one of the 75% cases! :) Hope this starts soon.
just arrived back home from vacation. hope I can prepare the GB by the end of next week.
:)
Happy New Year Plastik! =)
THANKS, you too and everyone else!I want one of the 75% cases! :) Hope this starts soon.
It's nice to know the project is moving forward.
But after the Christmas and new year, I really don't have any extra money right now - what is the projected payment schedule?
just arrived back home from vacation. hope I can prepare the GB by the end of next week.
:)
Happy New Year Plastik! =)
THANKS, you too and everyone else!I want one of the 75% cases! :) Hope this starts soon.
just arrived back home from vacation. hope I can prepare the GB by the end of next week.
:)
Screws were addressed in this post:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92403.msg2532039#msg2532039
Can you please shed light on the screws type? Are they going to be like the ones depicted in the 75% pictures?
Screws were addressed in this post:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92403.msg2532039#msg2532039Can you please shed light on the screws type? Are they going to be like the ones depicted in the 75% pictures?
yep
it will be the frankenstein screws:
[attachimg=1]
;)
and yes, these are the ones I used in the latest 75% renderings
I'm definetely join for 60% especially for YAS62.
I know there's many people who wouldn't agree with this layout because hard to grab PCB after missed GB. But i can throw 70 extras PCB after i'm done shipping all PCB from last GB.
silentreader and I have discussed this.
If there is enough interest for a YAS version, then we'll work out some kind of bundle for you. then it would be possible for all who want YAS&SKB60H to get it in one order and a single delivery, so you won't have to pay shipping twice.
Is this idea still on the table?
I know you're very busy with sorting the many different layouts. :thumb: :thumb: But an update on pricing would be quite nice
Will DZ60 compatibility be under standard 60%?
Thank youWill DZ60 compatibility be under standard 60%?
Yes, you‘ll need the standard top part. You’ll also have to decide on one of three plates. DZ60 means you probably want the dedicated arrow cluster, so you’ll need the UNI plate. That will support most of the YAS and DZ60 layouts.
how can I open a group buy?
how can I open a group buy?
how can I open a group buy?
Why, what are you hoping to run? Show us your amazing and awesome case ideas!
how can I open a group buy?
There should be a link call "Open Group Buy" on GeekHack.
After you click onto the link and follow the step by step instructions, a group buy ist then effortlessly opened under your GeekHack account. :cool:
Yes, the GB is still not live, sorry. It took longer then expected to get the final pricing. Due to the "high complexity" of the order, so I was told. I really got scared when I heard that, thought I might have miscalculated and everything ends up much more expensive news, got the prices today, will be somewhere between 130 and 160 Euro which is exactly in the range I estimated back here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92403.msg2532039#msg2532039).
There are still little details to sort out. The finish of the plate is still in question. Plate is steel not alu, think I mentioned it already. I don't want the blank steel to reflect/shine through the gaps between the keycaps. So I wanted to go for "brünieren", sorry not sure what the correct English word is. My contact at the factory suggested today that galvanizing (black) would be better for various reasons. This is still undecided jet, but I probably follow his suggestion.
Most importantly for you to know is that I will get Samples. As soon as I get them I'll take nice pictures. When that is done, everything is ready to start the GB. So when it will start you can decide based on actual photos of the real thing and not just renderings. You'll know exactly what you get.
...So I wanted to go for "brünieren"
Did you post an approximate weight in grams anywhere for the 60% kit w/ plate?
I can weigh the prototype - which is completely assembled.
Yes, the GB is still not live, sorry. It took longer than expected to get the final pricing. Due to the "high complexity" of the order, so I was told. I really got scared when I heard that, thought I might have miscalculated and everything ends up much more expensive. But good news, got the prices today, will be somewhere between 130 and 160 Euro which is exactly in the range I estimated back here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92403.msg2532039#msg2532039).
There are still little details to sort out. The finish of the plate is still in question. Plate is steel not alu, think I mentioned it already. I don't want the blank steel to reflect/shine through the gaps between the keycaps. So I wanted to go for "brünieren", sorry not sure what the correct English word is. My contact at the factory suggested today that galvanizing (black) would be better for various reasons. This is still undecided jet, but I probably follow his suggestion.
Most importantly for you to know is that I will get samples. As soon as I get them I'll take nice pictures. When that is done, everything is ready to start the GB. So when it will start you can decide based on actual photos of the real thing and not just renderings. You'll know exactly what you get.
Please also check MX and Alps compatibility (e.g. how some other makers implement it) and on plate switch-top removal possibility.
I can weigh the prototype - which is completely assembled.
Please do so when possible.
For cosmetic finish options on steel, powdercoating is a pretty common and relatively low cost option, with good variety of colours available. Most sheet metal fabs should be able to do powdercoat finishes (or have a preferred outsourcer for doing so). Most automotive garages or body shops will offer this service as well. Worth looking into if you want a nice cosmetic finish.
For what it's worth, I don't think galvanised steel is a good option, as the typical surface finish is not what I'd call visually pleasing. And galvanising is an operation that's done on mild steel, not stainless steel anyway... It's used to provide some protection from the elements, not for aesthetic.
Powdercoating is da wey my bruddahs.
I'm not interested in silencing clips after trying some out.
the difference in price of making one unit versus a lot is just crazy.
For cosmetic finish options on steel, powdercoating is a pretty common and relatively low cost option, with good variety of colours available. Most sheet metal fabs should be able to do powdercoat finishes (or have a preferred outsourcer for doing so). Most automotive garages or body shops will offer this service as well. Worth looking into if you want a nice cosmetic finish.
For what it's worth, I don't think galvanised steel is a good option, as the typical surface finish is not what I'd call visually pleasing. And galvanising is an operation that's done on mild steel, not stainless steel anyway... It's used to provide some protection from the elements, not for aesthetic.
All correct and well explained. I did powdercoating more than once before. The aesthetic of the plate is not the main concern for me - I just don't want it to shine/reflect through the keycap gaps. Powdercoating is a concern because the added thickness might make the installation of QMX clips quite difficult. But since QMX clips aren't really used by many, especially after we see so many silent switch versions, I probably might go for it instead of galvanizing. Wanna make a decision today. Anyone here who loves his QMX clips?
Please also check MX and Alps compatibility (e.g. how some other makers implement it) and on plate switch-top removal possibility.
I know, I know.
... make the cutouts larger, therefore the plate would loose some strength...
Same reason there is no switch-top removal support.
If someone wishes for Alps support, I'd be willing to make him/her a customized Alps plate, but that would be expensive. Alternatively I could send the DXF data for an Alps plate to whoever want's it. Would have to make it him/herself.
Please also check MX and Alps compatibility (e.g. how some other makers implement it) and on plate switch-top removal possibility.
I know, I know.
... make the cutouts larger, therefore the plate would loose some strength...
Same reason there is no switch-top removal support.
If someone wishes for Alps support, I'd be willing to make him/her a customized Alps plate, but that would be expensive. Alternatively I could send the DXF data for an Alps plate to whoever want's it. Would have to make it him/herself.
I understand and respect your design decision. You are a thoughtful maker for sure - despite this is your first GB. :thumb:
Another request for you to consider PCB pin size to be like those by KBDfans so that I can solder the China-made hotswap receptacles on it. That can be the best plate-mount solution for me.
I can weigh the prototype - which is completely assembled.
Please do so when possible.
the difference in price of making one unit versus a lot is just crazy.
You need make 5 pcs minimum for prototyping to save cost or make contract with vendor if you will make minimum more +10pcs after 1 unit done. It will save money for prototyping.
For cosmetic finish options on steel, powdercoating is a pretty common and relatively low cost option, with good variety of colours available. Most sheet metal fabs should be able to do powdercoat finishes (or have a preferred outsourcer for doing so). Most automotive garages or body shops will offer this service as well. Worth looking into if you want a nice cosmetic finish.
For what it's worth, I don't think galvanised steel is a good option, as the typical surface finish is not what I'd call visually pleasing. And galvanising is an operation that's done on mild steel, not stainless steel anyway... It's used to provide some protection from the elements, not for aesthetic.
All correct and well explained. I did powdercoating more than once before. The aesthetic of the plate is not the main concern for me - I just don't want it to shine/reflect through the keycap gaps. Powdercoating is a concern because the added thickness might make the installation of QMX clips quite difficult. But since QMX clips aren't really used by many, especially after we see so many silent switch versions, I probably might go for it instead of galvanizing. Wanna make a decision today. Anyone here who loves his QMX clips?
I have some QMX clips, tried them for a bit and removed them. Decent stopgap but they're not as effective as MX Silent switches, and are a pain to install and remove.
Cool if you're a casual user just trying to get a more effective silencing mod than o-rings, but people who want a silent board more than likely already have access to MX silent switches and foam insulating material for cases.
Powdercoated plates should be a little tighter, but iirc Cherry spec holes are generous enough that switches should still fit without any problems unless you really overdo it. In any case you could always try getting one plate coated and do a spot check with a handful of different switches.
Another request for you to consider PCB pin size to be like those by KBDfans so that I can solder the China-made hotswap receptacles on it. That can be the best plate-mount solution for me.
I can weigh the prototype - which is completely assembled.
Please do so when possible.
I just ordered this (https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B010E3FOAS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1).
the difference in price of making one unit versus a lot is just crazy.
You need make 5 pcs minimum for prototyping to save cost or make contract with vendor if you will make minimum more +10pcs after 1 unit done. It will save money for prototyping.
Thank you so much! This came just in time. Instead of one 60% and one 75%, I changed to five 60% (two different tops). Now I pay less but get more, you just saved me money.
My contact at the factory got really pissed because of the many changes, but now it's rolling :thumb:
I just ordered this (https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B010E3FOAS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1).
Another request for you to consider PCB pin size to be like those by KBDfans so that I can solder the China-made hotswap receptacles on it. That can be the best plate-mount solution for me.
you mean this one (https://kbdfans.cn/collections/pcb/products/gk64-rgb-60-64keys-hot-swap-pcb). I see, the PCB dimensions seem to be a bit bigger. that's not a problem, because of the wide frame there is enough room inside the case. however the hotswap elements seem to add quite ab it of extra hight/need more space under the pcb. so they might touch the bottom of the case. I'll check when I get the samples.
Btw I have both the GH60 SATAN PCB (https://kbdfans.cn/collections/pcb/products/satan-gh60chn-pcb-60-layout) and the KBDfans75PCB PCB (https://kbdfans.cn/collections/pcb/products/kbdfans-75-pcb-75) from KBDfans here myself and plan to use them with the cases.
And for all Europeans: If you want to buy a 60% PCB soon, Falbatech has the GH60verC back in stock (https://falba.tech/product/gh60-ver-c-partially-assembled-with-electronics-cable/). Good price as well.
Is KBDfans the recommended 75% PCB?
I prefer to use whatever you're designing the case around, and it seems like a good board.
I'm not quite sure if you've posted overall dimensions anywhere either. Any measurements for length/width?
But my plan is to install these instead:Show Image(https://img.alicdn.com/imgextra/i3/368341333/TB209fxn3RkpuFjy1zeXXc.6FXa_!!368341333.jpg)Show Image(https://img.alicdn.com/imgextra/i1/368341333/TB2RY5gjm_I8KJjy0FoXXaFnVXa_!!368341333.jpg)
You're welcome! Glad it help ;D
Anyway for GB method do you still use FCFS or you can take as many order you get?
Is this idea still on the table?
Good question!
I discussed this with Silentreader and we came to the conclusion that it wouldn't make much sense to ship the PCBs around the globe twice. The big risk is that I might have to pay quite a lot of import fee. That would make the YAS more expensive for you so you wouldn't see any price benefit from combined shipping anymore.
So we agreed that it's the best solution for all that you contact Silentreader via PM for leftovers. He will also run extra PCBs of YAS very soon :)
And regarding the start of the SKBXX GB - damn it's a lot of work getting every little detail right and worked out. You'll have to wait another week (at least) :(
Know that there will be a certain number of slots for 60% Standard, WKL, HHKB, YAS and 75%:
60% Standard x18
60% WKL x8
60% HHKB x10
60% YAS x12
75% Standard x24
If more orders should come in we'll have to reach the double amount:
60% Standard x36
60% WKL x16
60% HHKB x20
60% YAS x24
75% Standard x48
The portions may change according to the orders. The numbers are what I expect based on the google forms.
Will be first come, first serve.
I'll let you know here before the GB goes live.
I just ordered this (https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B010E3FOAS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1).
Thats quite a bit of overkill but sure :))
You're welcome! Glad it help ;D
Anyway for GB method do you still use FCFS or you can take as many order you get?
will be first come first serve. If the MOQ is reached and more orders are coming in then we will have to hit exactly double the orders. so there will be "stepsizes"?
See here (that's also where I told everyone what we had discussed btw):Is this idea still on the table?
Good question!
I discussed this with Silentreader and we came to the conclusion that it wouldn't make much sense to ship the PCBs around the globe twice. The big risk is that I might have to pay quite a lot of import fee. That would make the YAS more expensive for you so you wouldn't see any price benefit from combined shipping anymore.
So we agreed that it's the best solution for all that you contact Silentreader via PM for leftovers. He will also run extra PCBs of YAS very soon :)
And regarding the start of the SKBXX GB - damn it's a lot of work getting every little detail right and worked out. You'll have to wait another week (at least) :(
Know that there will be a certain number of slots for 60% Standard, WKL, HHKB, YAS and 75%:
60% Standard x18
60% WKL x8
60% HHKB x10
60% YAS x12
75% Standard x24
If more orders should come in we'll have to reach the double amount:
60% Standard x36
60% WKL x16
60% HHKB x20
60% YAS x24
75% Standard x48
The portions may change according to the orders. The numbers are what I expect based on the google forms.
Will be first come, first serve.
I'll let you know here before the GB goes live.
If the double amount shouldn't be enough I could triple - but let's not get too exited here ;D
If there will be more YAS requests and less 60Standard for example, then I could easily shift the numbers in favor of your YAS62-PCB.
Is KBDfans the recommended 75% PCB?
I prefer to use whatever you're designing the case around, and it seems like a good board.
Any 75% PCB will work.
I will use the one from KBDfans (https://kbdfans.cn/collections/pcb/products/kbdfans-75-pcb-75).
There are other options, just look at Aliexpress:
- YMDK YMD75 (https://de.aliexpress.com/item/YMDK-YMD75-Programmierbare-Underglow-RGB-PCB-F-r-75-84-Tastatur-ANSI-ISO-Layout-Austausch-KBD75/32837288983.html?src=google&albslr=201711687&isdl=y&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&source=%7Bifdyn%3Adyn%7D%7Bifpla%3Apla%7D%7Bifdbm%3ADBM&albch=DID%7D&acnt=494-037-6276&albcp=1036797285&albag=51292893979&slnk=&trgt=295990060787&plac=&crea=de32837288983&netw=g&device=c&mtctp=&gclid=Cj0KCQiA-qDTBRD-ARIsAJ_10yJ0Eiw8gEi-rrqR_x3zdQ3rMDTxxsRV4acy_-E1dVnfq_LZvQwIXt8aAgOiEALw_wcB)
- XD84 75% EEPW84 (https://de.aliexpress.com/item/xd84-75-eepw84-Custom-Mechanical-Keyboard-Supports-TKG-TOOLS-Underglow-RGB-PCB-programmed-kle-Kimera-core/32819790747.html?spm=a2g0x.10010108.1000014.1.7bcd3961DjURV9&traffic_analysisId=recommend_3035_null_null_null&scm=1007.13338.80878.000000000000000&pvid=c1999edd-9f65-467e-a0f4-d421d7ffa26d&tpp=1)
probably even more on taobao.
For everyone who want SKBYAS and don't have PCB.
I have some extras, you can check it on my thread https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=87511.0
Small update:
As you know I decided to get samples before the actual GB. I'm still waiting for them and all I know is that they will be finished some time this month.
Although this takes more time I think the samples are important for the following reasons:
a) Everybody will know exactly what he/she is getting.
b) I hope the samples will help to convince more to join the GB so that we safely reach the minimum quantity to actually make it happen.
So again, sorry for more waiting.
Any updates?
Any updates?
He mentioned over DT, that ETA for the samples is mid March.
The height adjustment feature from the opening post is still part of the plan?
would the b.mini fit?
would the b.mini fit?
You mean this one (http://winkeyless.kr/product/b-face-x2-pcb/)?
YES.
Any PCB will fit. Due to the fact that this is a top-mount case, there are no compatibility issues with any PCB (maybe just one exeption (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92403.msg2554846#msg2554846)). You just have to check if the plate supports the layout you want to go for.
would the b.mini fit?
You mean this one (http://winkeyless.kr/product/b-face-x2-pcb/)?
YES.
Any PCB will fit. Due to the fact that this is a top-mount case, there are no compatibility issues with any PCB (maybe just one exeption (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92403.msg2554846#msg2554846)). You just have to check if the plate supports the layout you want to go for.
would the b.mini fit?
You mean this one (http://winkeyless.kr/product/b-face-x2-pcb/)?
YES.
Any PCB will fit. Due to the fact that this is a top-mount case, there are no compatibility issues with any PCB (maybe just one exeption (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92403.msg2554846#msg2554846)). You just have to check if the plate supports the layout you want to go for.
You should probably clarify that this will work with PCBs with the port between Esc and F1.
Based on your renders I don't believe this case will work with centre ported PCBs like the Leeku PCBs used in in the Korean Customs like TX75 or Duck PCB in the Octagon and the likes.
Just the 75% b.mini this one (http://winkeyless.kr/product/b-mini-x2-pcb/) :)
The only PCB for YAS-Layouts is the YAS62, correct? Or is there a USB-C option somewhere for this layout?
OK, I was informed that I can pick up the samples next Tuesday or Wednesday.Neat! :) Really look foward to see how it turned out and the Group Buy.
FINALLY!
The only PCB for YAS-Layouts is the YAS62, correct? Or is there a USB-C option somewhere for this layout?
Nope. No USB-C.
OK, I was informed that I can pick up the samples next Tuesday or Wednesday.
FINALLY!
OK, I was informed that I can pick up the samples next Tuesday or Wednesday.
FINALLY!
It is for the reset switch, yes.
but that massive cutout is really not necessary in my opinion, seeing as you can set a hotkey in QMK to enter the bootloader. I'd like to see you go without this cutout.
What's the timeline for this GB? Please, make it happen. The kit is great.
I quite like how the second prototype turned out.
Would you be willing to weigh this prototype as well?
Also, have you been able to figure out pricing for these?
It is for the reset switch, yes.
Cool sample, good industrial aesthetic, but that massive cutout is really not necessary in my opinion, seeing as you can set a hotkey in QMK to enter the bootloader. I'd like to see you go without this cutout. Especially for 75% version where I can't even think of any PCB that has a reset switch (KBD75 PCB does away with it after round 2 IIRC)
I like the prototype but really hate that big cutout on the bottom. Just for the reset switch? If there is no way to close that cutout, I think it is kind of stupid :/
Nice prototype, but I don't like so much the cutout of the usb port. I don't understand why there's the need for the two cutouts to extend to the top. I'd prefer a cleaner look.
One of the nicest example of aluminium is the apple a1243 keyboard.
I hope that this gb will be successful and that we can have a tkl too.
I guess the usb cutout has to be that way to allow for the variable angle. The pcb is top mounted and so the usb port moves with the top half when the angle is changed. I am fine with it the way it is right now.
It is for the reset switch, yes.
Cool sample, good industrial aesthetic, but that massive cutout is really not necessary in my opinion, seeing as you can set a hotkey in QMK to enter the bootloader. I'd like to see you go without this cutout. Especially for 75% version where I can't even think of any PCB that has a reset switch (KBD75 PCB does away with it after round 2 IIRC)I like the prototype but really hate that big cutout on the bottom. Just for the reset switch? If there is no way to close that cutout, I think it is kind of stupid :/
well, it really is quite a big. was just to make sure that PCBs where the switch may be at a slightly different position will be ok with it as well. look at the zeal PCB for example. changing it is no big deal of course. but why would the cutout on the bottom bother you so much? I'll take a look at it.
EDIT:
regarding the hotkey in QMK to enter the bootloader - yes, I realised that as well today. what about non qmk PCBs?
what about non qmk PCBs?
well, it really is quite a big. was just to make sure that PCBs where the switch may be at a slightly different position will be ok with it as well. look at the zeal PCB for example. changing it is no big deal of course. but why would the cutout on the bottom bother you so much? I'll take a look at it.
EDIT:
regarding the hotkey in QMK to enter the bootloader - yes, I realised that as well today. what about non qmk PCBs?
TMK can be configured to go to bootloader mode with a key combo as well. Bootmapper boards have a PCB specific key you need to press while connecting the USB. Authentic Poker PCBs have dip switches at that location, but I would be amazed if someone used an actual Poker PCB to build their board. Nerd PCBs don't have a separate "bootloader mode".
what about non qmk PCBs?
Very important to consider this. While the cutout may not be a problem for QMK, this may not be the case for every PCB.
TMK can be configured to go to bootloader mode with a key combo as well. Bootmapper boards have a PCB specific key you need to press while connecting the USB. Authentic Poker PCBs have dip switches at that location, but I would be amazed if someone used an actual Poker PCB to build their board. Nerd PCBs don't have a separate "bootloader mode".
what about non qmk PCBs?
Very important to consider this. While the cutout may not be a problem for QMK, this may not be the case for every PCB.
[hidden][/hidden]TMK can be configured to go to bootloader mode with a key combo as well. Bootmapper boards have a PCB specific key you need to press while connecting the USB. Authentic Poker PCBs have dip switches at that location, but I would be amazed if someone used an actual Poker PCB to build their board. Nerd PCBs don't have a separate "bootloader mode".
what about non qmk PCBs?
Very important to consider this. While the cutout may not be a problem for QMK, this may not be the case for every PCB.
QMK, TMK and Bootmapper are all fine without a cutout then, so I would argue it is really not needed for most people.
All people can program the PCB with a key combo before screwing on the bottom of the case. "Ruining" all cases because some people do not know how to program their boards is a bit silly.[hidden][/hidden]TMK can be configured to go to bootloader mode with a key combo as well. Bootmapper boards have a PCB specific key you need to press while connecting the USB. Authentic Poker PCBs have dip switches at that location, but I would be amazed if someone used an actual Poker PCB to build their board. Nerd PCBs don't have a separate "bootloader mode".
what about non qmk PCBs?
Very important to consider this. While the cutout may not be a problem for QMK, this may not be the case for every PCB.
QMK, TMK and Bootmapper are all fine without a cutout then, so I would argue it is really not needed for most people.
I agree with a few up that some of the cutouts are a bit out of style, e.g. this huge circular cutout.
But to conclude "most people" (aka > 50% users) do not need that cutout, implying they do not need to access that reset button is a bit far-fetched.
I would say, unless a reset key-combo is set as default for all QMK and TMK and other PCBs, and that such a default reset key-combo is clearly written in easily accessible documentation of the PCB, the reset button is still the most obvious and no-brainer way to reset most PCB equipped with that.
If a PCB has certain features then some accommodation should be made for them no matter how useful you subjectively think they'll be.
The hole for reset access doesn't bother me. It's on the bottom and you should never see it once you've finished building.
Are these the same people who complain about a giant hole for dip switches? If a PCB has certain features then some accommodation should be made for them no matter how useful you subjectively think they'll be.
Would you be willing to weigh this prototype as well?
Regarding the HOLE situation:The hole for reset access doesn't bother me. It's on the bottom and you should never see it once you've finished building.
Are these the same people who complain about a giant hole for dip switches? If a PCB has certain features then some accommodation should be made for them no matter how useful you subjectively think they'll be.
I am 100% in line with this opinion.
But please chillout guys, some don't want it, some don't care but no one desperately needs it. In case someone does, you can still open the case of course. Consider the hole to be gone completely, less work for the LASER.
Beware: if now others come at me screaming to bring back the hole, then I might change my mind about it again :)
Btw, yesterday I dealt with QMK, made a keymap and flashed it to the board. This tutorial (https://youtu.be/-HLV6mUxNnU) was very helpful. Guess what I used to flash: yes, I pressed that little button through the hole :)
How do the screws feel btw? I showed this to my girlfriend and she brought up the point that they might be uncomfortable.
Is it possible to remove a screw from each side and pivot the top enough to access the button without disassembling the entire board?
That's interesting. Thanks.Is it possible to remove a screw from each side and pivot the top enough to access the button without disassembling the entire board?
You can leave the two front screws in and open it until a certain angle. This angle is about 30°. If your fingers are not huge then they have just enough space to get in and reach the button.
How do the screws feel btw? I showed this to my girlfriend and she brought up the point that they might be uncomfortable.
... They immediately become a part of the whole body and my fingers instinctively use them as kind of orientation points somewhat like the bumps on the F and J keys.
Vintage blacks? Sweet Jesus...
OK, stop teasing us and GIVE THE GB. :D
I need to take a trip to Germany this summer with the sole purpose of getting a full keyboard of vintage blacks I can bring home.I am from germany and didn't find a single vintage black keyboard for less than the usual switch price so far...
Well, I'll come for the keyboards, and stay for the beer while I search. :) Got to hit up those recycling centres.
I really would like to see/hear a typing sound video of the two boards you built. :D
I really would like to see/hear a typing sound video of the two boards you built. :D
+1
I want to hear how it sounds too. :p
Phone is fine. I'm just curious how this very new/unusual type of case from bent aluminium will sound like. I guess it may sound quite different from all the other more usual cnc'ed aluminium cases.
But i will get one even if it is not the thocc of the century ;D
What's the timeline for this GB? Please, make it happen. The kit is great.
only little details to sort out, better pictures, shipping options, then preparing the GB thread and go. hopefully starting in less that two weeks from now.
Do you still think the GB will still launch in the next few weeks?
How is it going with the two prototypes that you built?
Do you still think the GB will still launch in the next few weeks?
Yes, by the end of this week.
This looks fantastic. Any words on if the reset cutout will be done or not? I'm 1+ for not having the cutout there since removing the bottom seems pretty straightforward and quick. Also, are those the screws that are going to be used for the top? I haven't exactly been following this from start to finish, but have you taken a look at the ultra low profile cap screws for the top? Just personal preference since I doubt you'll rest on them, but they look a little cleaner imo. Harder to source though.Show Image(https://misumi.scene7.com/is/image/misumi/110302280540_20149999_m_01_99999_jp?$product_main$)
And if you need a proxy for the US, I'd be glad to help out.
This looks fantastic. Any words on if the reset cutout will be done or not? I'm 1+ for not having the cutout there since removing the bottom seems pretty straightforward and quick. Also, are those the screws that are going to be used for the top? I haven't exactly been following this from start to finish, but have you taken a look at the ultra low profile cap screws for the top? Just personal preference since I doubt you'll rest on them, but they look a little cleaner imo. Harder to source though.Show Image(https://misumi.scene7.com/is/image/misumi/110302280540_20149999_m_01_99999_jp?$product_main$)
And if you need a proxy for the US, I'd be glad to help out.
Haven't been following this either since when it was first posted, having countersunk or super low profile screws like this for the top would be really cool and would keep the "raw" look intact but make it nicer to the touch. Anyways I saw you moved to button top screws on the hhkb version so thats a step :p
Really nice work altogether cant wait to see where this goes further.