Just tried topre for the first time

[asgeirtj]

Just bought a Realforce 104 variable.... and I think I really dislike it.  For starters my favorite switch is 62g (also like 55g for gaming) lubed with thick gh lube clears.  This however, feels like reds I think (I really hate reds!).  It's like when you press the keys the there is no resistance but suddenly there is a little resistance and your fingers fall to the floor so to speak as the actuation is somehow completed for you(that probably makes no sense).  I don't hate rubber dome but I don't love them either after having tried mechs, but I don't think that Topre takes the good out of a rubber dome as I like some rubber domes better than this.  Also, the spacebar is loud as **** on the upstroke, feels really cheap.  Actually the whole typing experience on this board feels cheap imo.  Lastly, torn about the rough pbt on this as opposed to bsp's smooth pbt.

So I've heard most dislike it at first and then learn to like it, I really doubt that I will, it feels really inefficient to type (most people don't recommend topre for gaming as it's inefficient I gather, well inneficient to me /=/ quality imo). Someone please try to convince me that topre is good before I sell off this piece of junk (sorry church of topre people, I know this is blasphemous).

edit: the spacebar also feels much heavier than the other keys don't know what that is and I really hate it.

edit2: some people said that the caps on EK special edition of the realforce the caps were extra nice, the caps on these feel kind of cheap are the EK ones different/better?

[epzy]

remove the spring from the spacebar to make it lighter

[Shuki]

I use a topre 87u 55g and I use it frequently in gaming (dota 2, cs go, anything) and I haven't used any switch that I would consider "bad for gaming". The only thing I will say with topre is that 55g feels better than 45g by a lot due to how it feels, I usually like lighter key switches but with topre it changes the feel so much I think 55g is optimal.

The reason I like the topre is it feels like a lot of the force is at the top giving a very digital feel to each key press (which I actually somewhat value in some games). However if you don't like it, it doesn't really matter what I think. Just use what you like personally.

[asgeirtj]

I think the switches really need a discerning bump.  Also, poeple talk about some Topre "thonk" but I don't feel/hear it.  Also the upstroke sound is horrible!  I'm thinking that maybe I can mod it to my liking but I'm thinking that that will detract from the originally intended Topre feel and it will feel bad. 

[Shuki]

I didn't read carefully enough the first time. While I would say you can use any keyboard for gaming, variable keyboards may feel a bit weird on to play games with (although for fps games it might be preferable) but I've never used one so I wouldn't know.

[EscapeVelocity]

IMO, variable force keyboards are overkill, like the KeyTronics ErgoForce and RealForce variable. It's OK to have slightly heavier spacebar & enter...plus locking switches on the caps, numb, scroll.

[EscapeVelocity]

PS - Try a Logitech UltraX

Youll love it.

[trizkut]

PS - Try a Logitech UltraX

Youll love it.

They were decent value boards for $12 retail.  Probably the best scissor switch board I ever used.

[EscapeVelocity]

Doesnt look like a scissor switch to me. But yeah, its a great feeling switch with very stable keys, short throw...good tactility.

[rowdy]

Variable weight can be a bit odd, unless you strictly touch type and do nothing else.

You might find 55g uniform Topre keyboard would be a little more to your liking.

But having said that, please give the board a week or so before you make a final decision.  Topre is probably sufficiently different to most other keyboards you have tried, and it might take a few days for the impact to soak in.  After that try going back to an MX keyboard and see what you think of it.

[Polymer]

If you don't touch type, I'd imagine it would suck to type on a variable..it definitely does not work..especially when using the light keys..

If you do touch type, you'll find it is probably one of the most efficient keyboards out there..you'll be able to tell because after getting used to it, you'll find most uniform weighted keyboards will actually be slightly tiresome to use....

IT IS one of the least thocky Topre boards out there though...Already RF keyboards are on the lighter end of the thock...but add to that the lower weighted keys that are even less thocky and you get a less thocky board overall...

In enjoy using my HHKB more than my RF....but for longer typing sessions...no question..variable all the way..

[asgeirtj]

Really think that the variable weighting or nonthockiness isn't the problem here, it's just the I really dislike the tactility.

[atlas3686]

As Rowdy said you will very likely prefer 55g, they feel very different overall.

[rowdy]

As Rowdy said you will very likely prefer 55g, they feel very different overall.

+1



Oh, wait, that was me!  kthxbai

[asgeirtj]

As Rowdy said you will very likely prefer 55g, they feel very different overall.

The ESC key is 55g and it feels the same to me just too heavy for me

[atlas3686]

As Rowdy said you will very likely prefer 55g, they feel very different overall.

The ESC key is 55g and it feels the same to me just too heavy for me

Something I have picked up which only really makes our job harder is that a single key isn't going to give you the feel of a board with those keys. I am sure some would disagree but I don't find much value in switch testers for this reason.  You really need to actually type on it to get the feeling. I am surprised to hear you say it's too heavy though especially considering your preference of MX switches. That feeling will likely not change but it could be just because you have 30g switches you are comparing it to at that moment. I've been using BS for a while and after that my 55g feels buttery smooth and a little light

You may just be an MX guy and that's ok too, to each his own. I just wouldn't judge Topre based on a variable board.

[SpAmRaY]

edit2: some people said that the caps on EK special edition of the realforce the caps were extra nice, the caps on these feel kind of cheap are the EK ones different/better?

I'm fairly certain the caps are exactly the same between versions. Some have suggested the black on black feel different than the black on white/grey caps however.

[CPTBadAss]

Why do we need to convince you though? If it's not for you, there's nothing wrong with that. That's exactly why much of the advice on this site boils down to someone saying "personal preference".

[asgeirtj]

Why do we need to convince you though? If it's not for you, there's nothing wrong with that. That's exactly why much of the advice on this site boils down to someone saying "personal preference".

Because this:  I want the absolute TOP keyboard experience, and, since so many like Topre, there maybe is something I'm missing, or that I just need to get used to it.  It's unlikely in this case I think, but if there's 1% chance of it I'd appreciate getting informed about it!

[CPTBadAss]

Because this:  I want the absolute TOP keyboard experience, and, since so many like Topre, there maybe is something I'm missing, or that I just need to get used to it.  It's unlikely in this case I think, but if there's 1% chance of it I'd appreciate getting informed about it!

Fair enough. Consider this though, if there was the absolute best, top keyboard and keyboarding experience, we'd all be typing on it. Some people find Topre is their favorite. Some IBM. Some MX.

[asgeirtj]

Because this:  I want the absolute TOP keyboard experience, and, since so many like Topre, there maybe is something I'm missing, or that I just need to get used to it.  It's unlikely in this case I think, but if there's 1% chance of it I'd appreciate getting informed about it!

Fair enough. Consider this though, if there was the absolute best, top keyboard and keyboarding experience, we'd all be typing on it. Some people find Topre is their favorite. Some IBM. Some MX.

Yeah that's true.  Honestly I'm quite glad that I didn't like topre since the realforce is really bulky imo and I don't like the lack of customization on topre. 

[fuzzybaffy]

While I can understand why a lot of people prefer MX over Topre (like CPTBadAss says, it's all personal preference), I fail to see how Topre boards feel "cheap". People can hate Topre all they want, but it's a quality keyboard through and through (but just because something is quality, doesn't mean it's something people will like; I get that). The switches are more solid and smooth feeling than MX switches, for sure.

[rowdy]

It seems to me that Topre switches do take a little getting used to.

MX and probably Alps you pretty much know where you are within 5 minutes.

It is a generally held belief that Topre switchers will take a few days to become accustomed to.

So don't necessarily think that we are trying to force you to like them, just that for most people it does take more than a few minutes, or even a few hours, to become accustomed.

[sth]

It seems to me that Topre switches do take a little getting used to.

MX and probably Alps you pretty much know where you are within 5 minutes.

It is a generally held belief that Topre switchers will take a few days to become accustomed to.

So don't necessarily think that we are trying to force you to like them, just that for most people it does take more than a few minutes, or even a few hours, to become accustomed.

i'm not sure if it was the keyboards or just being graced by His Ever Benevolent Presence, but when hashbaz let me try his RF and HHKB it was love at first thock.

i say forget the whole thing and get a datahand.

[Ludovician]

I much prefer the 55g Topre switches over 45g, myself.

As for the thocking and clacking, I agree with you on the upstroke clack, but luckily there are mods that you can use to silence it which don't affect the feel of the board.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49046.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40582.0

But I, for one, would not be able to use the variable-force boards. Sounds horrible.

[asgeirtj]

While I can understand why a lot of people prefer MX over Topre (like CPTBadAss says, it's all personal preference), I fail to see how Topre boards feel "cheap". People can hate Topre all they want, but it's a quality keyboard through and through (but just because something is quality, doesn't mean it's something people will like; I get that). The switches are more solid and smooth feeling than MX switches, for sure.

Well I guess a "cheap" feeling is subjective.  For example I think that the feeling og MX blues is super cheap, but that't just me.

I much prefer the 55g Topre switches over 45g, myself.

As for the thocking and clacking, I agree with you on the upstroke clack, but luckily there are mods that you can use to silence it which don't affect the feel of the board.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49046.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40582.0

But I, for one, would not be able to use the variable-force boards. Sounds horrible.

I don't think modding it will do anything for me since I dislike the core feeling of the switch.


edit:  I just feel like mx is much more "snappy" than topre

[Bucake]

edit2: some people said that the caps on EK special edition of the realforce the caps were extra nice, the caps on these feel kind of cheap are the EK ones different/better?

I'm fairly certain the caps are exactly the same between versions. Some have suggested the black on black feel different than the black on white/grey caps however.

this.
it's the legends on the EK edition that are considered to be better, not the texture of the caps.
unfortunately the EK edition only comes in 45g.


and is it just me, or is the touch-type "argument" just silly, when talking about variable weighting..?

i've been a 'touch-typer' since forever, and uniform is by far the clear winner for me.
why? i don't know. maybe because i've typed on uniform my whole life.
i've been typing on variable for months now, and i am still feeling the exact same way about it as i did after the first 5 minutes of typing on it.
and maybe i just need 2 years to get used to it, but there's no way i'm giving it that long..

and i can see why one would think that variable 'makes sense', but try telling that to my fingers.

yeah, would never recommend. silly boards.

[TopreFan333]

I think it took me a few days to get used to the feel of my first Topre keyboard (HHKB), but once I did, I totally loved it, and even bought another (less expensive) Topre board to use at work. I guess if it was me, I'd try to power through it for a bit, and see if it you get used to it after a week or so. I don't think anything anybody can write is going to outweigh your liking or not liking it. The good news is at least Topre boards hold their resale value really well.

[limitz]

IMO, variable force keyboards are overkill, like the KeyTronics ErgoForce and RealForce variable. It's OK to have slightly heavier spacebar & enter...plus locking switches on the caps, numb, scroll.

Perhaps, but overkill is sometimes awesome.

One of my projects this year is a variable weighted Kustom w/ergo-Clears ranging from 62, 65, 67, 70, and 75g weights.

[Polymer]

and is it just me, or is the touch-type "argument" just silly, when talking about variable weighting..?

i've been a 'touch-typer' since forever, and uniform is by far the clear winner for me.
why? i don't know. maybe because i've typed on uniform my whole life.
i've been typing on variable for months now, and i am still feeling the exact same way about it as i did after the first 5 minutes of typing on it.
and maybe i just need 2 years to get used to it, but there's no way i'm giving it that long..

and i can see why one would think that variable 'makes sense', but try telling that to my fingers.

yeah, would never recommend. silly boards.

It is just you (and some others).  It obviously makes sense to plenty of people as it is one of their mainstays. 

I use both uniform and variable Topre..and while they feel different, I don't notice the variable being unusual unless I press on individual keys as a test..it is obvious the keys are different..but when using it, not at all.  I was pretty indifferent to the whole thing until I noticed that going back to uniform Topre was a bit tiring at first....my fingers had gotten used to the lighter keys and had to adjust to using more energy....for longer sessions the variable just makes more sense to use...

That doesn't mean I dislike uniform...I like both...I'm not going out and trying to create my own variable MX boards either...

And by touch typing we're referring to "proper form" which I'm sure that's what you mean as well...

I think people have to get over the fact that just because something doesn't work for them that it doesn't make sense for everyone else.  The proof is in the pudding...they sell tons of variable..that doesn't happen if everyone thinks it sucks...55g is a niche play, because it isn't in the same type of demand as 45g....That doesn't mean for any given individual, they can't or won't dislike variable...or they won't prefer 55g by a landslide....

[Bucake]

It is just you (and some others).  It obviously makes sense to plenty of people as it is one of their mainstays.

I use both uniform and variable Topre..and while they feel different, I don't notice the variable being unusual unless I press on individual keys as a test..it is obvious the keys are different..but when using it, not at all.  I was pretty indifferent to the whole thing until I noticed that going back to uniform Topre was a bit tiring at first....my fingers had gotten used to the lighter keys and had to adjust to using more energy....for longer sessions the variable just makes more sense to use...

That doesn't mean I dislike uniform...I like both...I'm not going out and trying to create my own variable MX boards either...

And by touch typing we're referring to "proper form" which I'm sure that's what you mean as well...

I think people have to get over the fact that just because something doesn't work for them that it doesn't make sense for everyone else.  The proof is in the pudding...they sell tons of variable..that doesn't happen if everyone thinks it sucks...55g is a niche play, because it isn't in the same type of demand as 45g....That doesn't mean for any given individual, they can't or won't dislike variable...or they won't prefer 55g by a landslide....

i always see 55g and 45g praised/recommended on these boards, never variable. rarely do i even see someone mention that they own (let alone like) a variable board. i've also never seen an indication of variables being sold a ton. (not sure i've ever seen one in a signature either.) i just figured variables weren't being used that much..
anyway;
my point was that i wouldn't recommend variable boards because i'm convinced that most people, like me, grow up using uniform and use it for years and years.
our fingers (have) adjust(ed) to uniform weighting, which basically means stronger pinkies and ring-fingers.
and why recommend variable to someone who has been using 2, 5, 10, 20+ years of uniform..?

and i guess my prior post looked too much like a "i don't like it, so it's stupid" kind of post, but that's not how i meant it at all.

[appleonama]

Topre isn't for everyone

It strange how we're the complete opposite. I have a duck eagle board with 62g ergo clears lubed but something about them feel extremely cheap and its not enjoyable to type on.

IMO my least favorite topre board is the rf87u 45g for typing but it is my favorite for gaming. The switches are light enough for fast tapping.

The best feeling topre typing for me is the fc660c and type-s

[Blaise170]

I was underwhelmed when I used CPT's at the Louisville meetup a few days ago. The build quality is definitely nice, but I don't see myself running out to pick one up. Too light for me anyways. I can barely type on these MX Reds. 

[Polymer]

i always see 55g and 45g praised/recommended on these boards, never variable. rarely do i even see someone mention that they own (let alone like) a variable board. i've also never seen an indication of variables being sold a ton. (not sure i've ever seen one in a signature either.) i just figured variables weren't being used that much..
anyway;
my point was that i wouldn't recommend variable boards because i'm convinced that most people, like me, grow up using uniform and use it for years and years.
our fingers (have) adjust(ed) to uniform weighting, which basically means stronger pinkies and ring-fingers.
and why recommend variable to someone who has been using 2, 5, 10, 20+ years of uniform..?

and i guess my prior post looked too much like a "i don't like it, so it's stupid" kind of post, but that's not how i meant it at all.

I own and love my variable.  You see quite a few others as well.  Variable is one of the mainstays for RF so you know it MUST sell.

There is nothing wrong with Uniform..it is great....anyone, including people that don't have "proper form" will be fine with uniform because that is what they're used to..it makes sense...In fact, uniform is a safe choice because well, that is what we're used to.  Not to mention the level of OCD on here makes it so even though you might feel it is fine under normal conditions (typing), the thought of the keys not being all the same drives some people mad.  Also, I think variable absolutely SUCKS for gaming...The light keys are just not meant to be used for gaming or to be pressed by anything other than your pinky. 

But does that mean someone who has never used a variable before won't be able to stand using it?  Of course not..in fact, if you use proper form, you are probably as likely if not more so to not really notice it...  Some people, like yourself, may still hate it..that's ok...

But the fact does remain...as far as Topres go, they're very popular...

[atlas3686]

edit:  I just feel like mx is much more "snappy" than topre

Definitely need to try 55g then, I have the same problem with lighter topre switches but 55g is super snappy In fact that was the first thing my girlfriend said when she first typed on it, after having typed on my MX browns and 45g Topre.

[Snowdog993]

Because this:  I want the absolute TOP keyboard experience, and, since so many like Topre, there maybe is something I'm missing, or that I just need to get used to it.  It's unlikely in this case I think, but if there's 1% chance of it I'd appreciate getting informed about it!

Fair enough. Consider this though, if there was the absolute best, top keyboard and keyboarding experience, we'd all be typing on it. Some people find Topre is their favorite. Some IBM. Some MX.

+1
I agree wholeheartedly on this.  Everyone has different tastes.  I prefer buckling spring.  Others just hate it for one reason or another.    It's what you prefer, not what anyone else prefers...
Find what works for you and stick with it! 

[asgeirtj]

I'm 99,9% sure that the variable weighting or 55g isn't an issue guys.  I just really dislike these switches.  It's like with MX reds, I loathe them, and no amount of time getting used to it is going to change it.  Same with blues.  Same with Cherry ML switch.  Different strokes for different folks.  I somehow just imagined Topre to be vastly different, really feels like mx reds to me.  To me mx reds really feel like a struggle to press, the work of pressing the switch is so much.  I haven't heard this description of mx reds a lot which really underlines for me that there indeed different strokes for different folks. 

[Herothereu]

Shoulda got a constant 45g weight Novatouch 

[Polymer]

I'm 99,9% sure that the variable weighting or 55g isn't an issue guys.  I just really dislike these switches.  It's like with MX reds, I loathe them, and no amount of time getting used to it is going to change it.  Same with blues.  Same with Cherry ML switch.  Different strokes for different folks.  I somehow just imagined Topre to be vastly different, really feels like mx reds to me.  To me mx reds really feel like a struggle to press, the work of pressing the switch is so much.  I haven't heard this description of mx reds a lot which really underlines for me that there indeed different strokes for different folks.

The weird thing is, they're nothing like MX Reds...nothing at all.  That isn't subjective that is actually factual.  Not saying you don't dislike them...and the pinky keys are really light and feel more linear..but the normal 45g keys are very tactile....See force curve for proof.

For someone that uses 62g clears and saying reds feeling like a lot of work...if you compare the two, the amount of work put into pressing them, 62g clears take more work overall...factually they do.  I appreciate you might feel that isn't the case but factually, you'd be wrong.

As far as the quality of the keycaps and them feeling cheap...seriously?  They're some of the nicest keycaps out there and are probably the best stock keycaps on any keyboard....

I'm not trying to convince you to like the board....it doesn't really matter..everyone has their own preferences....but some of the comparisons you're making aren't accurate...factually they're just wrong. 

[Blaise170]

They actually felt like snappier browns to me, but still not my cup of tea.

[False_Dmitry_II]

They actually felt like snappier browns to me, but still not my cup of tea.

I strongly suspect this would be my reaction. Except that the comparison to browns would not be a positive one, because I don't like those either.

[Bucake]

But does that mean someone who has never used a variable before won't be able to stand using it?

i never said anything like that. though, i don't see why one would ever recommend it to anyone but the exceptions (like people who are experiencing fatigue on uniform, or have other physical issues).
other than that, of course you're right; it's down to preference.
and i hope you're right and variable is popular enough, because otherwise i'll be stuck with this thing forever..

anyway:
@asgeirtj

the feeling of topre changes alot as the weighing changes.
the lighter keys of the variable boards, from my experience, really don't do topre justice. but if you'd spam only the 45g keys and still feel the same way, then i guess you're right and it really isn't for you.

[Polymer]

and i hope you're right and variable is popular enough, because otherwise i'll be stuck with this thing forever..

In a general sense they are...I see enough people with them on here as well although uniform seems more popular...heck, some people don't even like the extra spring in the spacebar of Topre.   

the lighter keys of the variable boards, from my experience, really don't do topre justice. but if you'd spam only the 45g keys and still feel the same way, then i guess you're right and it really isn't for you.

I agree that the lighter ones don't feel very Topre like...but when typing you barely notice that at all....When I first got my variable, I thought it sucked....compared to my HHKB it felt wrong...I sat there pressing individual keys thinking..wtf..this isn't Topre....but the proof is in the pudding..when using it you (Or I) don't even notice...it has the Topre feel but it just seems easier on your hands...

[Bucake]

proof is in the pudding, is it?

[Polymer]

proof is in the pudding, is it?

Yeap...What I mean is when I use it for typing....I don't notice it doesn't have the same pop or thock that the heavier keys do...and obviously it works for many others as well..(I'm talking about people using "proper" form). 

But other people do notice it..either they do or they already know it is lighter to psychologically they can't handle it...that's why it is great there are so many other options out there...

[Fullcream]

Shoulda got a constant 45g weight Novatouch 

Yes try uniform weighted topre. The Novatouch when silenced is maddecent. (was honestly unusable to me until silenced)
You don't have to worry about changing the feel if you decide to silence with something VERY thin, and you will feel absolutely no difference.

[asgeirtj]

I'm 99,9% sure that the variable weighting or 55g isn't an issue guys.  I just really dislike these switches.  It's like with MX reds, I loathe them, and no amount of time getting used to it is going to change it.  Same with blues.  Same with Cherry ML switch.  Different strokes for different folks.  I somehow just imagined Topre to be vastly different, really feels like mx reds to me.  To me mx reds really feel like a struggle to press, the work of pressing the switch is so much.  I haven't heard this description of mx reds a lot which really underlines for me that there indeed different strokes for different folks.

The weird thing is, they're nothing like MX Reds...nothing at all.  That isn't subjective that is actually factual.  Not saying you don't dislike them...and the pinky keys are really light and feel more linear..but the normal 45g keys are very tactile....See force curve for proof.

For someone that uses 62g clears and saying reds feeling like a lot of work...if you compare the two, the amount of work put into pressing them, 62g clears take more work overall...factually they do.  I appreciate you might feel that isn't the case but factually, you'd be wrong.

As far as the quality of the keycaps and them feeling cheap...seriously?  They're some of the nicest keycaps out there and are probably the best stock keycaps on any keyboard....

I'm not trying to convince you to like the board....it doesn't really matter..everyone has their own preferences....but some of the comparisons you're making aren't accurate...factually they're just wrong.

Yeah I'm probably a little weird, since I've only heard 1 person say that they feel that reds are more work to press than clears I am probably in minority   I describe it like this: reds are easy to press at the start but get heavier and heavier and I always bottom out, while clears may be heaviest at the start so you push them heavily at the start and that makes you break through the bump so the rest of the down-stroke is maybe not as noticeable.  With topre it's light at the start of the travel and then it gets heavier but the switch helps you to press it somehow and finishes the stroke for you and your fingers get a falling down feeling (hard to describe!).  I just don't like it. 

As for the keycaps, I don't know what to tell, just feel cheap too me, may be because I once had a Keycool 84 and it had grainy pbt caps and that board wasn't quality to me. 

[EscapeVelocity]

My Noppoo EC108 Pro 45g came in while GeekHack was down. Not overly impressed with it. I mean it's OK, nice and quiet, a bit too light touch for me. Snappy key bounce back. But it's just not that much better than the Dell KB-1421 which is also USB.  If the IBM 8923 or NMB RT6866TW were USB, Id probably prefer them over the Noppoo.

The Dell KB-1421 is most like the Noppoo EC108 Pro, with the IBM KB-8923 a close second as this keyboard has the lightest touch of the vintage Rubber Dome PS/2 boards and is also fairly quiet.

[opensecret]

Just bought a Realforce 104 variable.... and I think I really dislike it.  For starters my favorite switch is 62g (also like 55g for gaming) lubed with thick gh lube clears.  This however, feels like reds I think (I really hate reds!).

I have two variable force Realforce boards, and I like them both, but I also really like Cherry reds.  It's possible you could adjust to the 104u, but it sounds like a light touch is not your cup of tea.  Maybe a 55g Topre would feel better to you, but I wouldn't count on it. 

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the near-mystical praise of Topre you sometimes run across on this forum.  Topre is good, but not magically better than anything else on the planet, and not the best board for everyone.

[steve.v]

Just bought a Realforce 104 variable.... and I think I really dislike it.  For starters my favorite switch is 62g (also like 55g for gaming) lubed with thick gh lube clears.  This however, feels like reds I think (I really hate reds!).  It's like when you press the keys the there is no resistance but suddenly there is a little resistance and your fingers fall to the floor so to speak as the actuation is somehow completed for you(that probably makes no sense).  I don't hate rubber dome but I don't love them either after having tried mechs, but I don't think that Topre takes the good out of a rubber dome as I like some rubber domes better than this.  Also, the spacebar is loud as **** on the upstroke, feels really cheap.  Actually the whole typing experience on this board feels cheap imo.  Lastly, torn about the rough pbt on this as opposed to bsp's smooth pbt.

So I've heard most dislike it at first and then learn to like it, I really doubt that I will, it feels really inefficient to type (most people don't recommend topre for gaming as it's inefficient I gather, well inneficient to me /=/ quality imo). Someone please try to convince me that topre is good before I sell off this piece of junk (sorry church of topre people, I know this is blasphemous).

edit: the spacebar also feels much heavier than the other keys don't know what that is and I really hate it.

edit2: some people said that the caps on EK special edition of the realforce the caps were extra nice, the caps on these feel kind of cheap are the EK ones different/better?

This post is stupid. its like which tastes better, mango or orange. I like orange better, but please convince me to eat mango else I throw it away. #indecisive