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geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: mkawa on Fri, 22 February 2013, 22:08:16

Title: a call for macro photographers
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 22 February 2013, 22:08:16: i have a small macro rig, but rarely have the time to set it up, or grab the kinds of shots we need for the wiki. i know there have been numerous camera threads in other geeky stuff, so there must be other photo nuts lurking around here somewhere ;). if you have a camera that will do relatively distortion-free 1:1 and lighting to match (it doesn't have to be lens-mounted -- stationary lighting setups work fine, as long as you understand white balance, lighting uniformity, etc.), say it loud and proud! we need to set you up with a wiki account :D
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: ComradeSniper on Sat, 23 February 2013, 04:18:38: I haven't done a ton of macro, nor do I have a ton of keyboard related things to take pics of, but I can try!
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 23 February 2013, 08:44:07: if you have a macro rig, you are needed! (ps, BUY MOAR KEYBOARD STUFF :D)
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: mashby on Sat, 23 February 2013, 09:43:31: Any suggestions on what equipment is needed/recommended?

Clearly an iPhone isn't going to cut it, but I've been considering purchasing a new camera and setting up a proper environment in which to take photographs of my gear. If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears! :cool:
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 23 February 2013, 10:44:20: all you need is a camera that is capable of doing low-distortion (or easily correctable) 1:1. some p&s compacts can do this, every dslr and mirrorless cable is basically capable at this point with a true, fixed-focal length macro lens. for our purposes, you want something between 60mm and 135mm (35mm equivalent focal length) as well as a sturdy tripod. lighting and stability are really the trick. if you don't have enough light, you'll need longer shutters; our subjects don't move, so this is generally ok, but you need to keep the camera very still during that long exposure, so you need a sturdier tripod. if you get a dedicated macro flat (see: nikon r1c1 or equivalent), you can get away with less tripod.

personally, i go with fixed lighting (some desk lamps with big _matching_ ccfls in them) and a cheap sturdy (read: HEAVY) amvona (ie, knockoff) tripod off of ebay/amazon. the camera doesn't matter so much, because everything is stable. a p&s will perform about as well as a huge sensor dslr, as long as you have a good lens on it.
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Sat, 23 February 2013, 11:09:39: Once I get my camera back from the pawn shop I'll be sure to post some of my macro shots.
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 23 February 2013, 12:02:56: um, pawn shop? please don't pawn your worldly possessions off for keyboards, clib :P
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: ComradeSniper on Sat, 23 February 2013, 13:16:45: Quote from: mkawa on Sat, 23 February 2013, 08:44:07
if you have a macro rig, you are needed! (ps, BUY MOAR KEYBOARD STUFF :D)

I'm working on that! :p

What can I do for the wiki?
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 23 February 2013, 18:14:37: take pictures of stuff! super basic things i can think of that we lost as photos of actual switches and their constituent parts, stabilizers, keycaps, keyboard externals, internals, etc.

actually one simple thing that you don't even need to be a photographer to do is run through the photos in geekhack media of sets produced in group buys, different keyboards, etc., and link to them or attach them to associated pages in the wiki
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: rootwyrm on Sat, 23 February 2013, 22:13:43: Quote from: mkawa on Sat, 23 February 2013, 18:14:37
take pictures of stuff! super basic things i can think of that we lost as photos of actual switches and their constituent parts, stabilizers, keycaps, keyboard externals, internals, etc.

actually one simple thing that you don't even need to be a photographer to do is run through the photos in geekhack media of sets produced in group buys, different keyboards, etc., and link to them or attach them to associated pages in the wiki

Yespleaseandstuff.

I'm trying to get some photos of Model M controllers and internals for that part of the Wiki. I can get half decent macro of simple stuff, but my camera has issues with anything even slightly visually complex, and fails completely at anything reflective, even properly lighted.

Couple things I could especially use would be shots of M5-1 trackball area and internals, M5-2 trackball area and internals, M13 and TrackPoint II trackpoint mount area. These are all things I've tried to get shots of, with less than no luck. (Unless we can count 'black blur' as photo.)
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: ComradeSniper on Sat, 23 February 2013, 22:28:01: Quote from: mkawa on Sat, 23 February 2013, 18:14:37
take pictures of stuff! super basic things i can think of that we lost as photos of actual switches and their constituent parts, stabilizers, keycaps, keyboard externals, internals, etc.

actually one simple thing that you don't even need to be a photographer to do is run through the photos in geekhack media of sets produced in group buys, different keyboards, etc., and link to them or attach them to associated pages in the wiki

Ok, I'll get to picture taking. Will make new wiki pages as they are needed. I'm not great with wikis so might need some assistance with that part.
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 24 February 2013, 00:56:55: samwisekoi (although currently buried deep in retro gb) is the wiki master in both an official and reverential sense.
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: CPTBadAss on Sun, 24 February 2013, 01:06:07: Quote from: mkawa on Sat, 23 February 2013, 18:14:37

actually one simple thing that you don't even need to be a photographer to do is run through the photos in geekhack media of sets produced in group buys, different keyboards, etc., and link to them or attach them to associated pages in the wiki

Challenge accepted.
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: ComradeSniper on Tue, 26 February 2013, 21:09:21: Uploaded some pics and made a couple pages. I will keep doing so.
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: guilleguillaume on Thu, 28 February 2013, 05:29:41: I don't think anyone can match him...

(http://i.imgur.com/22geNrx.jpg)
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: mashby on Thu, 28 February 2013, 08:16:27: Quote from: guilleguillaume on Thu, 28 February 2013, 05:29:41
I don't think anyone can match him...

Challenge accepted. ;)

That actually helps a great deal. Any idea what the metal plate with the bench is?
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 03 March 2013, 09:29:48: oh please. they're keycaps. they don't move, and they don't need r1c1 style lighting or a 105 af-s. a 30 year old 105/2.8 or 55/2.8 micro or at worst one of the af-d 105 or 60mm micros with fixed lighting and macro rail made out of a shop vice and some jb weld will do fine.

the RRS ballhead is just stupid. a 3-way pan head will also do fine.

note that he doesn't even understand that the whole point of the 105 + r1c1 combo is for handheld macro and more importantly, macro shots of stuff that moves (bugs, medical). a friend of mine uses it for dental photography, for example.

also, a carbon fiber tripod for fixed studio macro photography? really? really?

ok sorry rant over.
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 03 March 2013, 09:34:44: this reminds me. i want to run a gb for gray cards and white-plates (basically spectrally neutral plastic bits) that are decently sized at actual manufacturing cost from SP. it's quite easy for them to do, but i just haven't gotten around to it. that stupid whibal costs like THIRTY DOLLARS and is just a white color chip with some silkscreening. i mean seriously?
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: Niall on Tue, 05 March 2013, 06:52:26: I have a fairly decent, albeit low end DSLR setup. But like ComradeSniper I have next to no mechanical keyboard related stuff and probably won't do for a few months as money is a bit of an issue. I do have a cheap Cherry Brown keyboard right now though, with an IBM Model M arriving that should be here next week.

As far as camera gear goes, I have a fairly heavy tripod and a 1:2 macro lens(Nikon 55mm f2.8 Micro), I have extension tubes so I should be able to get 1:1 out of it, but at a mere 55mm on a crop sensor lighting the subject with any lights will be a nightmare so it'd have to be lit with a long exposure. There is a cheap Nikon 105mm f4 Micro on ebay right now that's going for incredibly cheap, I've been eyeing it up for a while and will try to snag it if I can, but again it's 1:2 without the use of extension tubes. Outbid at the last second, typical!

Are there any particular shots I can get out of the Model M when it arrives? Or perhaps, out of my current Cherry Brown keyboard without desoldering any switches?

EDIT: So it turns out the good guys over at Deskthority are doing a switch tryout (http://deskthority.net/try-before-you-buy-f29/switch-try-bag-europe-t4943.html#p102401), I've applied and if I get the switches I'll get some macro images of each and release those images under a creative commons (or similar) license, for wiki documentation and science!
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: esoomenona on Tue, 05 March 2013, 07:58:36: Quote from: mkawa on Sun, 03 March 2013, 09:29:48
...macro shots of stuff that moves (bugs, medical). a friend of mine uses it for dental photography, for example.
If you're teeth are moving, I don't know what to tell you...
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 05 March 2013, 15:20:38: Quote from: esoomenona on Tue, 05 March 2013, 07:58:36
Quote from: mkawa on Sun, 03 March 2013, 09:29:48
...macro shots of stuff that moves (bugs, medical). a friend of mine uses it for dental photography, for example.
If you're teeth are moving, I don't know what to tell you...
my teeth are currently biting your head off
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: esoomenona on Tue, 05 March 2013, 15:23:15: Is that what this pain in my neck is from?
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: asura on Tue, 05 March 2013, 16:11:00: Things something like this (http://www.mediafire.com/view/?5l6jk6lu3xmo8qj) what you're looking for? Obviously the lighting is pants - I've got an el'cheepo led macro ring somewhere and a plethora of fluorescent lamps - including a ring lamp which I can take the magnifying lens out of... now there's a thought! I just didn't have any of them within a five mile radius and felt like snapping then and there. It's an old manual 3.5f=50mm minolta macro lens with it's 1:1 tube, I'm not flush enough for a ff camera so consider it pre-cropped :p
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 05 March 2013, 18:52:10: yah, but with more DOF. open up that aperture. you can also focus stack if you can't get enough dof. composite multiple shots with the focus set at regular intervals. also, that red shift-like ghosting; is that chromatic aberration or some movement somewhere?
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: ComradeSniper on Tue, 05 March 2013, 22:32:29: Quote from: mkawa on Tue, 05 March 2013, 18:52:10
yah, but with more DOF. open up that aperture. you can also focus stack if you can't get enough dof. composite multiple shots with the focus set at regular intervals. also, that red shift-like ghosting; is that chromatic aberration or some movement somewhere?

I always focus stack my macro shots, getting good depth of field from a single image is really difficult.
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: asura on Wed, 06 March 2013, 07:21:03: It's a combination of movement and reflection - that orange and blue farnell box is still sitting on my desk and a hand held shot using Canons' built in flash in a dark room. I still haven't gotten around to setting up for cataloguing my jewellery, and more and more pieces are going out - just never enough time.

Very un-ideal conditions.
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 07 March 2013, 07:54:46: fixed lighting! get a couple of cheap ikea desk lamps using the same model of bulb and side-light through a light tent (you can make one for a few pence out of a cardboard box and some vellum or printer paper)
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: ComradeSniper on Fri, 08 March 2013, 01:36:39: Quote from: mkawa on Thu, 07 March 2013, 07:54:46
fixed lighting! get a couple of cheap ikea desk lamps using the same model of bulb and side-light through a light tent (you can make one for a few pence out of a cardboard box and some vellum or printer paper)

Yep, that's what I do!
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: wcass on Sat, 01 June 2013, 14:54:37: i use a flatbed scanner for my macro photography. and on some occasions i actually clean the dog hair off of the glass.
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sat, 01 June 2013, 15:03:01: Quote from: wcass on Sat, 01 June 2013, 14:54:37
i use a flatbed scanner for my macro photography. and on some occasions i actually clean the dog hair off of the glass.

Not sure if serious or trolling ::)
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: wcass on Sat, 01 June 2013, 17:24:48: i posted scanner pictures earlier today (IBM key caps). check out the "blue legend" picture and you will see a dog hair that i didn't notice until i cropped the picture which was after i put the keys away.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44220.msg913144#msg913144 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44220.msg913144#msg913144)

here is a picture of a teensy made into a keyboard controller.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40111.msg879833#msg879833 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40111.msg879833#msg879833)

this is some close ups of a PCB. the traces are about 0.3mm wide
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40111.msg861529#msg861529 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40111.msg861529#msg861529)

this is a damaged teensy
http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=40111.0;attach=18338;image
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sat, 01 June 2013, 17:58:53: Quote from: wcass on Sat, 01 June 2013, 17:24:48
i posted scanner pictures earlier today (IBM key caps). check out the "blue legend" picture and you will see a dog hair that i didn't notice until i cropped the picture which was after i put the keys away.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44220.msg913144#msg913144 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44220.msg913144#msg913144)

here is a picture of a teensy made into a keyboard controller.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40111.msg879833#msg879833 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40111.msg879833#msg879833)

this is some close ups of a PCB. the traces are about 0.3mm wide
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40111.msg861529#msg861529 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40111.msg861529#msg861529)

this is a damaged teensy
http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=40111.0;attach=18338;image

awesome pics man!!
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 01 June 2013, 20:01:12: serious. flatbeds are great for 1:1

actually, can you flatbed some cherry switches internals? curious to see if they're better than our macro setups can accomplish (the biggest problem with flatbeds is of course their lack of depth of field)

the upside is that they have ZERO chromatic aberration and distortion generally. back in the day they used to call flatbed scanners "copier stands" and they were actual fixed focus cameras sitting at well defined heights above surface plates.
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: wcass on Sat, 01 June 2013, 23:10:32: i don't think i have any cherry (being such a BS fan) or at lease i don't think so. I do have an old Wise that i got on the cheap just because. i would be happy to crack that open.
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: Dianoda on Sun, 02 June 2013, 20:15:27: I have a full-frame camera, a macro lens, a few flashes, etc. I'm not really sure what types of images you are looking for to use in the wiki, but taking 1:1's with plenty of DOF is pretty easy with the equipment I have. The only thing I'm lacking is a proper macro-rail for focus stacking.

(http://i2.minus.com/ioSFnZndH4pGu.jpg)

edit: I really need to clean my sensor (there are like, at least 10 dust spots in that photo T_T)
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 02 June 2013, 20:53:11: beautiful! get this man some switches and other ephemera! :D
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: esoomenona on Sun, 02 June 2013, 21:00:24: Holy ****, that's an amazing image. Dianoda to the rescue.
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Mon, 03 June 2013, 00:17:27: Great stuff indeed. I can even see some reflections on the spring.
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 03 June 2013, 10:18:10: no seriously, can someone send this guy some switches?
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 03 June 2013, 17:21:01: ^^^ That's scary :eek:
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 07 June 2013, 13:47:42: i have a basic set/wasd sample pack of switches and stabs headed to dianoda. please, if others can contribute ephemera: varieties of switches and keycaps, it would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: ComradeSniper on Tue, 11 June 2013, 17:13:33: Quote from: Dianoda on Sun, 02 June 2013, 20:15:27
I have a full-frame camera, a macro lens, a few flashes, etc. I'm not really sure what types of images you are looking for to use in the wiki, but taking 1:1's with plenty of DOF is pretty easy with the equipment I have. The only thing I'm lacking is a proper macro-rail for focus stacking.

Show Image
(http://i2.minus.com/ioSFnZndH4pGu.jpg)

edit: I really need to clean my sensor (there are like, at least 10 dust spots in that photo T_T)

Wow, pretty.
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: Dianoda on Tue, 11 June 2013, 17:57:06: Quote from: mkawa on Fri, 07 June 2013, 13:47:42
i have a basic set/wasd sample pack of switches and stabs headed to dianoda. please, if others can contribute ephemera: varieties of switches and keycaps, it would be greatly appreciated.

I sent this album over to mkawa last night and figured I could repost the photos here as I work the content into the wiki:

http://dianoda.minus.com/mv2Q72Unp86Zf (http://dianoda.minus.com/mv2Q72Unp86Zf)

Probably the most interesting thing I noticed would be the stock lube used by Cherry on certain portions of the metal components in the lower switch housing (I only saw it on at the parts that make contact with the slider). To illustrate:

(http://i5.minus.com/iu9T0hxDml7vE.jpg)

(http://i4.minus.com/ibnDUG5RNW9SgT.jpg)

Has Cherry always been lubing the slider/metal meeting points in their lower switch housings?
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 11 June 2013, 19:22:48: we have suspected that there is factory lube on exactly those points of the leaf switch, but never had a picture that makes it so obvious
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: Dianoda on Thu, 13 June 2013, 22:09:00: So, this is pretty much as detailed a shot of the stock slider lube I can produce with the equipment I have (the only SLR lens I can think of that would produce more detail is a Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8 1-5x):

(http://i.minus.com/iOpWyx87OVWkG.jpg)

So, who wants to guess what lube they use?
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 13 June 2013, 22:24:17: taste and smell is typically the differentiator here ;)
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 13 June 2013, 23:20:40: It's scary to think that that blob of grease is probably less than 1mm across.

Excellent photos!
Title: Re: a call for macro photographers
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 26 June 2013, 01:21:57: i was serious about taste and smell by the way. traditional greases will smell and taste like good ole mineral oil. lithium and ptfe greases typically have very little smell, and either a metallic taste or be pretty tasteless. more importantly, if it's a lith or ptfe, it will have either very low viscosity or very high.

very curious to know what they're putting on that crosspoint now, as grease formulations have changed a ton since cherry first made switches, and we've shown anecdotally that the grease formulation makes a huge difference in the switch feel.