Author Topic: One more 4704 107 key thread  (Read 8177 times)

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Offline Touch_It

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One more 4704 107 key thread
« on: Tue, 04 November 2014, 22:11:58 »
For right now I haven't really started work except take the outer shell off of it, decided what I will be doing for paint on the shell, and try to figure out the color scheme for my replacement key caps.

Also I apologize for the terrible pics, they were taken with my Iphone.  As I progress I will take some better pictures.






You cant see but the date is 4-1986  (exactly 2 years older than me)  thought it was cool it fell in the same month as my birthday.



Buzzer.  Note the bottom right hole on it is half broke.  Hopefully the pcb is still fine though.



Haven't taken the key caps off yet but the top plate looks like its in fairly good condition but definitely has some corrosion/rust and will need to be repainted.



Corrosion on the back plate (Hopefully it will clean up nice), and this dated sticker.  Maybe refurbishment in 96?  Maybe someone can clarify this for me.

Also I failed on the orientation multiple times and gave up lol.

Also I will post more pictures as I progress but this project will likely take me a few more months.
« Last Edit: Tue, 04 November 2014, 22:13:38 by Touch_It »


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Offline 0100010

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 05 November 2014, 08:41:45 »
It is just a support hole on the buzzer PCB - no traces run nearby.  Could probably fix it with some super / krazy glue.

It's fun watching these boards come back to life!
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Offline Touch_It

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 05 November 2014, 09:23:59 »
It is just a support hole on the buzzer PCB - no traces run nearby.  Could probably fix it with some super / krazy glue.

It's fun watching these boards come back to life!

Indeed it is.  Unfortunately it will be a while for mine, so I will have to live vicariously through other peoples restoration projects like yours, lol.


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Offline pr0ximity

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 05 November 2014, 18:38:29 »
I really can't get over how good these boards feel to type on. It feels completely different from my Model M, just such a smooth movement down to the buckle and the most solid bottom-out on top of those layers of thick metal. It feels like you're typing with a well-oiled assault rifle, and that's without restoring anything!

I'd love to bring it to work but I think my desk might collapse under the weight :))
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Offline 0100010

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 05 November 2014, 19:05:04 »
I really can't get over how good these boards feel to type on. It feels completely different from my Model M, just such a smooth movement down to the buckle and the most solid bottom-out on top of those layers of thick metal. It feels like you're typing with a well-oiled assault rifle, and that's without restoring anything!

I'd love to bring it to work but I think my desk might collapse under the weight :))

Soooo - a Model M is an AK, while a Model F is an AR?  ;D
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Offline Touch_It

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 16 November 2014, 20:08:01 »
Quick update.  Stripped the paint from my top case.  I will be clear coating it with some rustolium but I havn't yet.  The bottom case has some crazy wicked paint on it as I used 3/4 a can of paint remover on it and barely got any paint off so no pics of that yet :(.



Tis a slow process for me but I'm getting somewhere.  Also I have decided I'm putting a solenoid in this bad boy.

edit: Couldn't resist.



mini edit, could see the back label just fine on my ips screens at home but can't see crap on my work monitors.
« Last Edit: Mon, 17 November 2014, 09:31:47 by Touch_It »


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Offline 0100010

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 16 November 2014, 22:29:35 »
Wow, that looks nice just like that.
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Offline pr0ximity

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 17 November 2014, 18:46:35 »
Wow really like the bare metal look  :-X Man it's getting difficult to decide what to do with mine!
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Offline Touch_It

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 17 November 2014, 19:42:00 »
I hear you man.  I finally his decided to go for it as it was my first idea.  I'm struggling with deciding on key caps still though.


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Offline 0100010

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 17 November 2014, 20:15:44 »
For me the keycap layout was simple - make it as close to ANSI as possible, as that is the layout I can touch type.  Only decision was keep as many original caps as possible, or replace them all with new Unicomps.  Since I needed to replace some of them to make ANSI, just decided to replace them all.  I still have a few originals on it though, as well as one key from a 3178.
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Offline Touch_It

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 17 November 2014, 20:43:24 »
Sorry I shoulda clarified.  I'm replacing with Unicom for sure but I don't know what colors I want lol.


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Offline Touch_It

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 13 December 2014, 21:38:44 »
Small update.  Finally got to finish stripping my case and I am clear coating it.  I think it is going to turn out ok but I'll know tomorrow for sure.  I snapped some pics right after I put on the 3rd coat.





In both pics the top case is wet, bottom case is dry. 

On another note Unicomp confirmed my not so secret Christmas present from my parents shipped from unicomp.  (My key cap set and inserts).  I'm inching towards completion!


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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 13 December 2014, 21:47:58 »
If I ever get one of these, paint will not be present.

Bare metal is beyond awesome.
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Offline jacobolus

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 13 December 2014, 22:37:55 »
Controller should be in the mail, but I’m out of town for a couple weeks at the holiday, so I won’t actually work on it for about a month. I’m otherwise all ready to sandblast and powdercoat the case though.

Offline esoomenona

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« Reply #14 on: Sat, 13 December 2014, 22:40:29 »
.
« Last Edit: Wed, 19 August 2015, 09:21:03 by esoomenona »

Offline Touch_It

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One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 13 December 2014, 22:43:08 »
Haha sorry :(.  I'm pretty excited as this is my first keyboard build.

@jacobolus I'm bare metal all the way but a part of me wishes I could powder coat my board.  What color are you thinking
« Last Edit: Sat, 13 December 2014, 22:45:20 by Touch_It »


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Offline esoomenona

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« Reply #16 on: Sat, 13 December 2014, 22:45:08 »
.
« Last Edit: Wed, 19 August 2015, 09:18:57 by esoomenona »

Offline jacobolus

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 14 December 2014, 00:50:40 »
@jacobolus I'm bare metal all the way but a part of me wishes I could powder coat my board.  What color are you thinking
The plan is to powder coat it blue, and laser etch this logo down to the metal:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62003.msg1453439#msg1453439


Then make high-quality emoji legends for the 5x7 grid of relegendable keys at the right.

Offline Touch_It

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 27 December 2014, 19:16:20 »
Tiny update.  First took all the old keys off to look at the barrel plate.  Pretty good shape.  The white spots on it are from keys bottoming out.  Secondly I just couldn't resist so I put the new keycaps I could on.  Pretty happy.  Unicomp gave me a black vs white space bar so a bit sad they messed that up but I guess I'll order a white one at some point.  Also I would like to order a black backslash key.  A red printed esc key.  The alignment on the insert, home, and delete keys is pretty bad so I want to replace them at some point. 

Potato pics.


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Offline Touch_It

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 15 January 2015, 20:40:59 »
Update.  Got a soldering iron, replacement foam, and a hollow punch to create the holes.  Beings I have all the necessary supplies to move forward I separated the plates,  removed the springs and barrels.  The foam didn't crumble but is definitely bad as I figured it would be.  I also de soldered the old controller.  It was a learning experience for sure.

I found the best technique was to use the soldering iron to heat the tip of the wire and use a small screwdriver to push down the wire on the bend of the ribbon cable below the controller.  Mangled the plastic and a few wires but should be easy to sort.  I also removed the pcb from the bottom curved plate as it needs a vinegar bath.

The pcb looks to be in good shape, just needs a good cleaning with rubbing alcohol.  The top plate I will be sanding and painting this weekend.   I will be using rustoleum hammered black.  I will also use painting to make my foam template.  When I feel more ambitious I will update with links to the foam, paint, and hole punch I will be using.  My soldering iron was $5.00 at Walmart.  It worked but sucks, lol.  Anyways below are some potato pics.  Would have taken better ones but once again I felt lazy.  Maybe this weekend.



Included my puppy as he was eager to help.  Feel free to give input/ ask questions.  I was surprised at how easy the plates separated.  Went smooth as butter.


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Offline snoopy

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 16 January 2015, 02:38:02 »
I love 4704 projects... :)

If I only had the time to start with my 107... so many ideas floating around my head...

Offline Touch_It

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #21 on: Fri, 16 January 2015, 08:17:06 »
Do it lol.  All the progress I made took me 1 to 1.5 hours.  If you don't suck it wouldn't take near as long I imagine.  However I feel like cleaning everything and making a new foam insert will be time consuming.  At any rate my goal is this weekend for completion.  Also I would love to see more restoration threads.  Always exciting.


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Offline snoopy

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 16 January 2015, 08:25:47 »
hmm... that little black thing in my signature took me way longer than 1.5 hours... And I imagine that 107 one is a real pain to get it back together (concerning the inner 'sandwich').

Offline Touch_It

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #23 on: Fri, 16 January 2015, 08:29:08 »

hmm... that little black thing in my signature took me way longer than 1.5 hours... And I imagine that 107 one is a real pain to get it back together (concerning the inner 'sandwich').

Probably.  I think the foam I'm using is thicker than the original.  I'd say it's 3* as thick as the original in its current state.  I'll definitely keep the thread up to date with my progress


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Offline 0100010

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #24 on: Sat, 17 January 2015, 09:38:26 »
I didn't have the option to paint through my barrel plate with the foam underneath to mark the holes; I just assembled the plates sans barrels and used a pen to trace each hole.
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Offline Touch_It

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 17 January 2015, 13:51:31 »
Update, did my painting.  Turned out decent.  I'm neglecting to post a pic of the bottom plate.  The distilled white vinegar bath did some weird things to it and it looks pretty bad and I didn't really feel like sanding it as I will rarely see it. 

Anyways pics of the top plate and foam below.  I took some pics that are less potato-like.








Now I have to be patient for drying. patience isn't my strongest suite.


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Offline Snowdog993

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #26 on: Sun, 18 January 2015, 16:47:02 »
Well worth the wait!!!!  Very nice!

Offline Touch_It

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 00:10:43 »
Quick late night update.

Got the beast assembled.  Not that bad really.  I didn't use clamps or anything, I just manhandled the plates together (helps to have large hands).  Put keycaps/case on.

Went to program it and realized, even with the instructions, I have no idea how to :(.  Someone needs to give me the idiots guide to this, lol.

Pic for fun!  More will come tomorrow, if I'm not lazy.



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Offline Snowdog993

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #28 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 00:20:04 »
Wow!  They both look great! 

Offline 0100010

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 10:02:00 »
Programming is not too bad.  This is from memory -

Open up the xwhatsit ibm capsense app and look at the state area on the top right - that shows the key matrix - with what keys show pressed / and don't.  There will be a voltage threshold you will need to adjust.  I think it starts out at the max value (1024?), you will want to lower this until you see no keys pressed in the state matrix (while not actually pressing any keys). [This was 109 for me.]

Once you have found that level, then test each key one at a time and ensure that you see one spot in the matrix show pressed for each.  Once each key by itself looks OK, then start pressing combinations, or typing, or mashing down many keys at once.  The goal is to set the threshold to a level that doesn't pick up any ghost keypresses.  You will likely have some keys that ghost when pressing combinations or typing, so you will probably have to raise the level a bit.  [I ended up at 113.]

Once the threshold is set, then you need to assign functions for each key - on the base layer tab.  This is a simple press a key, watch where on the on-screen matrix that key is, choose the function you want for that key in the drop down, move on to the next.  Do this for every key on the board.

You will also need to enter in a check mark in position 16 on the Column Skip tab.  Then hit the Store in EPROM button.

That will get you started at least for basic typing.

Expansion header, macros and layers can come later.
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Offline Touch_It

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #30 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 10:28:55 »
Ahh thanks.  I had no idea on the column skip and it sounds like auto-calibrate isn't really necessary?  That also confused me as my keyboard wasn't doing what the guide said it should.


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Offline Lurch

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #31 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 10:49:26 »
Ahh thanks.  I had no idea on the column skip and it sounds like auto-calibrate isn't really necessary?  That also confused me as my keyboard wasn't doing what the guide said it should.

The software version in the guide might be older than the software version you downloaded. I noticed that was case when I was programming my 62-key model F, but I was still able to get it done just fine. ;)

0100010 covers the general idea of how to program your model f rather well. I just wanted to add that you might have to adjust the tolerance a few times for fine tuning. Example, the auto-config function set my tolerance to 118, and all seemed fine, but I soon discovered that my Y key would misfire, sometimes sending random characters that were no where near the Y key. I ended up opening notepad, and spamming y to monitor how the key would behave, and if it was misfiring, I would turn the tolerance up by 1, and repeat until it did not misfire.

Your mileage may vary. :thumb:

Good luck getting it programmed! The case on your 107 looks great. After getting bit by the model F bug, I'm kind of kicking myself for not picking up a 107-key myself.

Let us know how you make out!
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Offline Touch_It

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #32 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 11:01:08 »
Thanks!  In all honesty my pictures aren't great and it hides a lot of things.  The clear coat did some weird things almost like it blistered , leaving whit blotches in some spots.  It makes for a aged/used look.  Definitely not my intention but cool in its own regard I suppose.  Just counting down hours at work till I can do real work.


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Offline Touch_It

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #33 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 18:13:05 »
Good news.  I am typing this post on my now working keyboard!  Only thing with programming really is I didn't seem to find the option for windows keys.  Could someone point me in the right direction.  Other notes.  I need to fix my spacebar stabilizer as it sticks like a civ.  I also think I need to re-seat a few keys and/or adjust the threshold.  Pretty minor things imo.


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Offline Snowdog993

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #34 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 21:29:32 »
Nice!  All that effort finally pays off!  I'm so glad you got it all together.  Great work! 

Offline Lurch

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #35 on: Thu, 22 January 2015, 06:18:13 »
Good news.  I am typing this post on my now working keyboard!  Only thing with programming really is I didn't seem to find the option for windows keys.  Could someone point me in the right direction.  Other notes.  I need to fix my spacebar stabilizer as it sticks like a civ.  I also think I need to re-seat a few keys and/or adjust the threshold.  Pretty minor things imo.
You are looking for 'left gui', or 'right gui' to program the windows keys.

Glad to hear you got it working!
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Offline Venatorious

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #36 on: Sun, 01 March 2015, 19:59:30 »
That thing looks so dang nice... Like what you have done with it.

Hopefully I will be getting one soon.   ;D

Offline Touch_It

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #37 on: Sun, 01 March 2015, 20:18:06 »

That thing looks so dang nice... Like what you have done with it.

Hopefully I will be getting one soon.   ;D

Thanks :)

I hope you do get one,  they are vey nice boards.  Update on mine.  I plan on putting a solenoid in mine, just need to purchase a controller board for it.  Also the foam I used is not thick enough/too squishy.  Some of the middle 3 rows keys have to much wobble in them causing issues if I don't press dead center on them.  At some point I need to open it and add a second layer for these rows.  The issue isn't too bad though and only affects several keys significantly so I'm hesitant to open it back up as it will be a fair amount of work to correct it.


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Offline Venatorious

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #38 on: Mon, 02 March 2015, 14:51:51 »

That thing looks so dang nice... Like what you have done with it.

Hopefully I will be getting one soon.   ;D

Thanks :)

I hope you do get one,  they are vey nice boards.  Update on mine.  I plan on putting a solenoid in mine, just need to purchase a controller board for it.  Also the foam I used is not thick enough/too squishy.  Some of the middle 3 rows keys have to much wobble in them causing issues if I don't press dead center on them.  At some point I need to open it and add a second layer for these rows.  The issue isn't too bad though and only affects several keys significantly so I'm hesitant to open it back up as it will be a fair amount of work to correct it.

I hear that art foam works very well for this. I plan on getting a few different types of foam and seeing how they feel. In the end, it will probably be the same art foam that Fohat uses.

Offline 0100010

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #39 on: Mon, 02 March 2015, 14:57:36 »
Some of your keys move?!?  None of mine do.  I'm curious what is different.
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Offline Touch_It

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #40 on: Mon, 02 March 2015, 16:12:09 »
Some of your keys move?!?  None of mine do.  I'm curious what is different.

Yeah, not sure.  But with a few of the keys in the middle 3 rows you have to hit dead center or else you have to hit the key hard or weird for it to activate.  From some expirimenting I found the barrels for those keys have some play and are tilted more forward than they should be.  If I wanted to be really lazy I could probably alleviate the issue using super glue but that sounds like a poor solution.


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Offline Melvang

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #41 on: Mon, 02 March 2015, 16:21:18 »
Some of your keys move?!?  None of mine do.  I'm curious what is different.

Yeah, not sure.  But with a few of the keys in the middle 3 rows you have to hit dead center or else you have to hit the key hard or weird for it to activate.  From some expirimenting I found the barrels for those keys have some play and are tilted more forward than they should be.  If I wanted to be really lazy I could probably alleviate the issue using super glue but that sounds like a poor solution.

Sounds like it needs a foam replacement.  If it is new foam of proper thickness, sounds like the plate may have corroded to far along the edge of the hole causing excess slop.
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Offline jacobolus

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #42 on: Mon, 02 March 2015, 16:24:26 »
Some combination of replacing the foam + slightly increasing the bend of the top plate should fix it.

Offline Venatorious

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #43 on: Mon, 02 March 2015, 17:22:40 »
Some combination of replacing the foam + slightly increasing the bend of the top plate should fix it.

What would you use to increase the bend of the top plate?


Offline Melvang

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #44 on: Mon, 02 March 2015, 18:25:52 »
Some combination of replacing the foam + slightly increasing the bend of the top plate should fix it.

What would you use to increase the bend of the top plate?

Personally I would just bend it over my thigh.  It won't take much. 
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Offline Venatorious

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #45 on: Mon, 02 March 2015, 21:05:09 »

What would you use to increase the bend of the top plate?

Personally I would just bend it over my thigh.  It won't take much.

Oh okay. I didn't realize it would be so easy.  Once I ANSI mod my model F I will be sure to do that.

Offline jacobolus

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #46 on: Mon, 02 March 2015, 21:39:31 »
One other possible solution would be to add an extra thin layer of foam to just the middle rows, to push their barrels a little tighter than they’d get with uniform foam across all the rows.

Offline Touch_It

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One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #47 on: Mon, 02 March 2015, 22:11:00 »
One other possible solution would be to add an extra thin layer of foam to just the middle rows, to push their barrels a little tighter than they’d get with uniform foam across all the rows.

In the future this will likely be my plan as I purchased enough replacement foam for 4 keyboards.  As fast as I get stuff done I will be lucky if I get to it this year.

Edit on my phone so I won't quote everyone but I replaced the foam and ran into the issue upon reassembly.  The foam I used is very compressible so it is likely not thick enough in the middle for my board.
« Last Edit: Mon, 02 March 2015, 22:14:22 by Touch_It »


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Offline Touch_It

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Re: One more 4704 107 key thread
« Reply #48 on: Fri, 05 June 2015, 13:10:48 »
Update.  Got a solenoid and solenoid driver.  Here is a crappy video so you can hear/see her in action.



At first I thought it was going to be a novalty, but as I used it more, I kept liking it more and more.

Sooooo much ping.  You probably cant hear it but the whole case reverberates.  I super glued the solenoid down to the bottom of the case.  I forgot to take any pictures of the process but it wasn't too bad.  Bent a upper plate tab down to fit the 6 pin connector to the xwhatsit controller.  I used packing tape looped into a circle to make ghetto 2 sided tape to tape the solenoid driver board to the bottom case and connected the solenoid.  Turned it on in software following xhwatsit instructions and I was away.  I just need to figure out how to turn it on and off via a key press vs the software.

Here is a comparison video with it disabled.


All that is left to do is figure out why my jkl keys dont work quite right if you hit them at the very bottom.


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