AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Axios [In Development]

[wesleyh]

where can we see these stainless steel plates from "the_beast"? was something like this made for ergodox?

[Tarzan]

where can we see these stainless steel plates from "the_beast"? was something like this made for ergodox?

Negative, I just mentioned these as an example of stainless steel switch plates created for other keyboard models.  [Not even sure The_Beast is interested in another round of dealing with laser fab shops, it sounds like a thankless task!]

But, IF a stainless steel plate (or plates...) were an option for the ErgoGP, I'd be even more happy with this custom keyboard.  If that's even possible.   

[Thimplum]

Aluminium plates would be more realistic. I don't know if he's got a laser cutter for the job, though...

[insilica]

I am. I am 150% sure about that 70% board. It makes me drool.

What took you so long

Yea for me it's going to be both . One at a time though, probably starting with the 70%- though, don't know will toss a coin when time comes.

Keep up the excellent work Acid

[Merloobi]

Oh boy oh boy. I can't wait. Will there be options for custom color options? I'd love a white acrylic case to match my color scheme. Thanks!

[AcidFire]

Oh boy oh boy. I can't wait. Will there be options for custom color options? I'd love a white acrylic case to match my color scheme. Thanks!

Of course How could I claim to have a completely customizable keyboard without the choice of custom colors for the cases

where can we see these stainless steel plates from "the_beast"? was something like this made for ergodox?

Negative, I just mentioned these as an example of stainless steel switch plates created for other keyboard models.  [Not even sure The_Beast is interested in another round of dealing with laser fab shops, it sounds like a thankless task!]

But, IF a stainless steel plate (or plates...) were an option for the ErgoGP, I'd be even more happy with this custom keyboard.  If that's even possible.   

If you're going for plates being separate from the case itself, any chance for stainless steel?

+1 for this.  As much as I like the look of the acrylic cases, the stainless steel plates from The_Beast are superb.  Maybe a kit build option, sourcing the plates from The_Beast?

Aluminium plates would be more realistic. I don't know if he's got a laser cutter for the job, though...

If you're going for plates being separate from the case itself, any chance for stainless steel?

Aluminum & Stainless plates aren't out of the question. I currently don't have the capability to cut either, but that might change if the kickstarter goes very well. Either I acquire or lease a laser, or I find a shop to do it at a decent price.

I am. I am 150% sure about that 70% board. It makes me drool.

What took you so long

Yea for me it's going to be both . One at a time though, probably starting with the 70%- though, don't know will toss a coin when time comes.

Keep up the excellent work Acid

I'm thinking for the beta testers, I'm going to include all three case designs (still only enough electronics to build one) so that everyone who is testing has the opportunity to give me feedback on all three.

And when I launch the kickstarter campaign, I'm looking at doing multipacks where you can buy two sets at a bit of a discount.

Oh, and since I mentioned a third design:

[BlueByLiquid]

Sold on the 70% angled design. 100% sold! Since much more excited about the regular split design but that is perfect for travel.

[thadood]

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[fisofo]

Oh, and since I mentioned a third design:

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That is pretty awesome... how does it feel on your hands?

[do_Og@n]

Oh, and since I mentioned a third design:

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That is pretty awesome... how does it feel on your hands?

You mean besides like a orgasm?

[BlueByLiquid]

Quick question Acidfire, have you noticed an issues i have with the spherical keycaps on a flat design. For me they stick up much higher than the rest of the keys (more than I would like) to the point that I fine myself catching my hands on them. Not sure there is really an easy solution but on the Kinesis the heights of the spherial keycaps are about the same and rest of the keys. It also may be because I got the DSC keycaps.

[AcidFire]

Oh, and since I mentioned a third design:

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That is pretty awesome... how does it feel on your hands?

Sold on the 70% angled design. 100% sold! Since much more excited about the regular split design but that is perfect for travel.

Oh, and since I mentioned a third design:

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That is pretty awesome... how does it feel on your hands?

You mean besides like a orgasm?

I love it. Like Blue said, I still prefer the proper split, but this will definitely be the board I take when I travel.

[wiredPANDA]

Design three - yes, yes, yes.  Think that'll become my travel board.  An otherwise crappy day has been salvaged with awesome updates to this thread.

[Thimplum]

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Now THAT's it!

[spspencer]

Are you still accepting Beta testers? If so, please add me.

[Larken]

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now, this, I would use. The original 70% didn't seem like a good idea to me due to the ulnar deviation. I was envisioning something like this instead (which in all honesty, is somewhat like a catboard, but with more buttons). And man, you sure do get these prototypes out fast. Can't wait for these to start selling.

[Glod]

Oh, and since I mentioned a third design:

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oh my this looks to be even better than before, this looks like something that would actually replace everything, use it for home+travel

though i do want to add my input, just throwing this out there:
1. Cosmetically all the bolts really is unappealing, looks to be 18 of them. maybe if they were countersunk and black on black then i think i would like it. I also hate this about my ergodox, i think of them as warts. You may have mentioned this is only for prototyping in your designs and sorry if i missed it if so
2. I know you are going for getting a bunch of keys on there but i just dont see the point of 2 of the keys in the top center.

it may look better without them and be one less 1.5 key cap i would have to acquire (i do like "bringing my own" key caps)

[MOZ]

Third design, yes!

Remove the keys in the center, and add a trackball, maybe remove the 1.5x on the sides to make it more portable.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47220.0

[AcidFire]

oh my this looks to be even better than before, this looks like something that would actually replace everything, use it for home+travel

though i do want to add my input, just throwing this out there:
1. Cosmetically all the bolts really is unappealing, looks to be 18 of them. maybe if they were countersunk and black on black then i think i would like it. I also hate this about my ergodox, i think of them as warts. You may have mentioned this is only for prototyping in your designs and sorry if i missed it if so
2. I know you are going for getting a bunch of keys on there but i just dont see the point of 2 of the keys in the top center.

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it may look better without them and be one less 1.5 key cap i would have to acquire (i do like "bringing my own" key caps)

1. I agree. I'm working to minimise them, but right now I go a little nuts because it lets me remove some and test to see which are absolutely needed, and which aren't.
2. yeah, I've been debating on this, it was mostly to match the number of keys on the straight board, but just like the thumb boards I can easily vary the number of them.

Third design, yes!

Remove the keys in the center, and add a trackball, maybe remove the 1.5x on the sides to make it more portable.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47220.0

It's something I've got marked down for the second batch of board designs, as it would require a heavy modification to the board design to make it work. But I'm not counting it out yet.

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now, this, I would use. The original 70% didn't seem like a good idea to me due to the ulnar deviation. I was envisioning something like this instead (which in all honesty, is somewhat like a catboard, but with more buttons). And man, you sure do get these prototypes out fast. Can't wait for these to start selling.

Well the non split was put together rather quickly based on daerid's concept, and I imagine there will be some who prefer it. I however agree about the deviation, and thus this was the logical next step. I actually didn't turn this one around as quickly as I wanted, but I'm not used to working at angles like they are on this one (OCD is not my friend with this sort of thing.)

Are you still accepting Beta testers? If so, please add me.

http://multiplxd.com/ergogp/beta - Fill that out, I'm still taking applications.

Design three - yes, yes, yes.  Think that'll become my travel board.  An otherwise crappy day has been salvaged with awesome updates to this thread.

Glad I could pick up your day for you

[Larken]

Well the non split was put together rather quickly based on daerid's concept, and I imagine there will be some who prefer it. I however agree about the deviation, and thus this was the logical next step. I actually didn't turn this one around as quickly as I wanted, but I'm not used to working at angles like they are on this one (OCD is not my friend with this sort of thing.)

don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking on the design; after all, different people have different ergo needs. But I could tell at a glance that I couldn't use the original 70% without RSI symptoms returns.

And relax, you're plenty fast as it is. Most (esp me) would take weeks or months (if ever) to turn out a prototype based on an idea like this. Its a beautifully done job. Much props to you.

[MOZ]

Larken is reiterating what I had said, I had printed a mockup of the 70% and it didn't work, in 5mins, I knew, I couldn't use it.

[daerid]

Oh, and since I mentioned a third design:

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Wow... you are fast. This looks amazing. However, I must say that (at least for me), I would much prefer the straight design. I've tried tilting my ErgoDox, and it just doesn't feel right, and puts too much strain on my pinkies. I have fairly large hands and type with straight wrists as it is, so the straight 70% looks absolutely perfect for me.

But that's the beauty of your design. Completely modular. You sir, are a master.

[Demonmaker]

Loving the new 70% one, I'm still going for the ErgoGP split version though because it suits what I have in mind for my simpit and its just simply beautiful, but after seeing that last one.... The wife is going to kill me when you offer the discount for getting both.

Thanks again for the update, roll on kickstarter.

[kurplop]

In an orchestra, one conductor leads a large group of highly talented musicians to create a masterpiece. 

You sir, took your cues from dozens of "conductors" and using your prodigious skills are working toward a travel keyboard masterpiece. The GP is a fine design but I believe the travel version may become your magnum opus. I think it strikes a good balance between portability, ergonomic improvement, affordability(from simple construction) and appearance. I can't wait to see what's next. Built in nail clipper?

[Dynamo]

Oh, and since I mentioned a third design:

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Very nice! And I for one like that there are many keys on the board. :)

[wiredPANDA]

Glad I checked - I missed the beta signup form.

And I agree with kurplop that third design may become the forerunner once things get going.

[Binge]

Sometimes I think there are too many damn buttons.

[kurplop]

Oh, and since I mentioned a third design:

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Wow... you are fast. This looks amazing. However, I must say that (at least for me), I would much prefer the straight design. I've tried tilting my ErgoDox, and it just doesn't feel right, and puts too much strain on my pinkies. I have fairly large hands and type with straight wrists as it is, so the straight 70% looks absolutely perfect for me.

But that's the beauty of your design. Completely modular. You sir, are a master.

Reducing ulnar deviation is a traditional method of improving keyboard ergonomics. I was surprised to hear that you prefer the straight design. Do you hold your ErgoDox apart at shoulder width?

[daerid]

Reducing ulnar deviation is a traditional method of improving keyboard ergonomics. I was surprised to hear that you prefer the straight design. Do you hold your ErgoDox apart at shoulder width?

Not quite. Here's a pic of how my hands rest on the ErgoDox:



It's hard to tell, but my wrist is pretty much totally straight. I've found that if I rotate the ergodox at all it puts much more strain on my ring and pinky fingers than I like and my wrists tent to deviate radially, which is also uncomfortable.

[ephson]

Oh, and since I mentioned a third design:

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Want!  I love this design (especially for travel).

[AcidFire]

I'm happy everyone likes it, I've been pretty damn happy with it too, and I'm looking forward to getting my next batch of boards to finally get to take this layout for a proper test drive.

In an orchestra, one conductor leads a large group of highly talented musicians to create a masterpiece. 

You sir, took your cues from dozens of "conductors" and using your prodigious skills are working toward a travel keyboard masterpiece. The GP is a fine design but I believe the travel version may become your magnum opus. I think it strikes a good balance between portability, ergonomic improvement, affordability(from simple construction) and appearance. I can't wait to see what's next. Built in nail clipper?

Coming from you sir, that means the world . I'm a bit surprised at the amount of do want the 75% ergoboard is getting, but glad that the design was worth fighting through.

Sometimes I think there are too many damn buttons.

Thats the nice thing about a modular system, you can set yourself up to have only as many switches as you need. Besides, more switches means a need for more binge caps

[MOZ]

Reducing ulnar deviation is a traditional method of improving keyboard ergonomics. I was surprised to hear that you prefer the straight design. Do you hold your ErgoDox apart at shoulder width?

Not quite. Here's a pic of how my hands rest on the ErgoDox:

Show Image

It's hard to tell, but my wrist is pretty much totally straight. I've found that if I rotate the ergodox at all it puts much more strain on my ring and pinky fingers than I like and my wrists tent to deviate radially, which is also uncomfortable.

Don't your fingers travel in an unnatural manner then, at angle to the left for left hand and right for right hand rather than just curling them back and forth.

[kurplop]

It's hard to tell, but my wrist is pretty much totally straight. I've found that if I rotate the ergodox at all it puts much more strain on my ring and pinky fingers than I like and my wrists tent to deviate radially, which is also uncomfortable.

That's reinforces my belief that one person's pain is another person's  pleasure in the ergo world.

I think it's great that AcidFire is being so accommodating with his designs.

[Thimplum]

I still can't wait to shove my money down acidfire's throat for a beta ergogp. I don't travel a lot, so I'm still very excited about the original GP.

[AcidFire]

So for the modular system itself, I've decided to call it Ascendancy. Will probably keep the GP for the split boards, will have to come up with something other than straight or ergo for the 75% boards.

[daerid]

Don't your fingers travel in an unnatural manner then, at angle to the left for left hand and right for right hand rather than just curling them back and forth.

Not that I can tell. Maybe I just have odd fingers. It's quite comfortable for me.

[sm31]

So for the modular system itself, I've decided to call it Ascendancy. Will probably keep the GP for the split boards, will have to come up with something other than straight or ergo for the 75% boards.

Why "ascendancy"? That's a word that doesn't immediately suggest to me what you're trying to do with the project (not that I have a better one ATM mind you).

[Thimplum]

So for the modular system itself, I've decided to call it Ascendancy. Will probably keep the GP for the split boards, will have to come up with something other than straight or ergo for the 75% boards.

Why "ascendancy"? That's a word that doesn't immediately suggest to me what you're trying to do with the project (not that I have a better one ATM mind you).

I think that it sounds cool.

[sordna]

Don't your fingers travel in an unnatural manner then, at angle to the left for left hand and right for right hand rather than just curling them back and forth.

Not that I can tell. Maybe I just have odd fingers. It's quite comfortable for me.

my guess you keep the keyboard far away from your body. Because if like most people you keep the keyboard as low and close to your belly as possible, you have to angle it (3rd design) or significantly distance the 2 halves, otherwise the wrists become totally bent.

[Larken]

Reducing ulnar deviation is a traditional method of improving keyboard ergonomics. I was surprised to hear that you prefer the straight design. Do you hold your ErgoDox apart at shoulder width?

Not quite. Here's a pic of how my hands rest on the ErgoDox:

Show Image

It's hard to tell, but my wrist is pretty much totally straight. I've found that if I rotate the ergodox at all it puts much more strain on my ring and pinky fingers than I like and my wrists tent to deviate radially, which is also uncomfortable.

Don't your fingers travel in an unnatural manner then, at angle to the left for left hand and right for right hand rather than just curling them back and forth.

Not that I can tell. Maybe I just have odd fingers. It's quite comfortable for me.

my guess you keep the keyboard far away from your body. Because if like most people you keep the keyboard as low and close to your belly as possible, you have to angle it (3rd design) or significantly distance the 2 halves, otherwise the wrists become totally bent.

pretty much what sordna said. I keep mine as near to my waist level as much as I can, and I require it angled quite a bit to keep my wrists totally straight. To keep it at the waist perfectly straight would require me to put the halves further apart, at shoulder width like kurplop has mentioned. Sordna's guess is probably accurate - the keyboard is probably further away than your body compared to most.

but daerid, have you considered the distance between the two halves of the ergodox? due to the design of the thumb cluster, there is a minimum distance of about 4 to 5 keys (1x size) that cannot be bridged, whereas on design 1 (for the nonsplit), the length between the two 'halves' is 2 key's width. Unless one uses the keyboard in a way that keeps their arms (yes, arms, not wrists) stretched far away from their body (in theory, further away than where your ergodox is right now), there will likely be ulnar deviation.

[AcidFire]

As promised in the 40% thread, two designs:

The one at the top is based on a pair of the 4x5 modules I'm designing, the one on the bottom would be a different board entirely.

[TheSoulhunter]

The 2nd would be awesome with some sort of hinge in the middle to split it...

[MOZ]

The 2nd would be awesome with some sort of hinge in the middle to split it...

Yeah, agreed, maybe at the top and BT would make ti perfect.

[Thimplum]

As promised in the 40% thread, two designs:

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The one at the top is based on a pair of the 4x5 modules I'm designing, the one on the bottom would be a different board entirely.

I am disappoint. You were supposed to finish it by the end of yesterday. You're fired.


I kid, I kid! Really, I think that it looks quite good! I don't think that I could ever live without a dedicated number row, but I know of a number of people who would be suited to it perfectly.

[TheSoulhunter]

Is the keyless space at the top is needed for controller?

[daerid]

As promised in the 40% thread, two designs:

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The one at the top is based on a pair of the 4x5 modules I'm designing, the one on the bottom would be a different board entirely.

Bottom one is WIN

[daerid]

my guess you keep the keyboard far away from your body. Because if like most people you keep the keyboard as low and close to your belly as possible, you have to angle it (3rd design) or significantly distance the 2 halves, otherwise the wrists become totally bent.

Generally speaking, I usually keep my keyboard farther away than I should. But even when I put the keyboard at the "proper" ergonomic position I don't bend my wrist. Dunno what to tell you. My natural tendencies are to keep my wrists completely straight, and adjust with the fingers. Probably from two decades of guitar playing. Right now I'm typing this on my FC660C on my lap with my shoulders back and upper arms completely vertical, the insides of my forearms are actually resting against my belly (got a bit of a paunch). Wrists are still straight, but my fingers curl progressively outward (index is straight, pinky is most curled). It probably helps that my fingers are over 4" long.

pretty much what sordna said. I keep mine as near to my waist level as much as I can, and I require it angled quite a bit to keep my wrists totally straight. To keep it at the waist perfectly straight would require me to put the halves further apart, at shoulder width like kurplop has mentioned. Sordna's guess is probably accurate - the keyboard is probably further away than your body compared to most.

but daerid, have you considered the distance between the two halves of the ergodox? due to the design of the thumb cluster, there is a minimum distance of about 4 to 5 keys (1x size) that cannot be bridged, whereas on design 1 (for the nonsplit), the length between the two 'halves' is 2 key's width. Unless one uses the keyboard in a way that keeps their arms (yes, arms, not wrists) stretched far away from their body (in theory, further away than where your ergodox is right now), there will likely be ulnar deviation.

See above. You can't really get less distance between two sides of a keyboard than your typical staggered QWERTY layout. I am perfectly confident that the non-angled layout would pose no ergonomic problems for me.

I also realize that I am probably in the minority. As kurplop stated above, what is ergonomic is different for every individual. Yes, common patterns have emerged, but that doesn't mean they are absolute.

[TheQsanity]

I hope I don't miss this once it get into GB phase.

[MOZ]

I hope I don't miss this once it get into GB phase.

 

There is plenty of time before that phase.

[AcidFire]

I hope I don't miss this once it get into GB phase.

 

There is plenty of time before that phase.

When I put up the Kickstarter campaign, I plan to offer a couple of early bird reward levels that will be limited to 50-100 units that I should be able to get out by christmas. The rest will be uncapped so that as many people as possible can jump in (which benefits everyone.)

The 2nd would be awesome with some sort of hinge in the middle to split it...

Yeah, agreed, maybe at the top and BT would make ti perfect.

Split it to fold, or split to make it ergonomic? And yes, if it was portable I think bluetooth would be a must.

Is the keyless space at the top is needed for controller?

To match the current functionality yes, as it not only is space for the main controller, but also for things like the LED backlighting.

So for the modular system itself, I've decided to call it Ascendancy. Will probably keep the GP for the split boards, will have to come up with something other than straight or ergo for the 75% boards.

Why "ascendancy"? That's a word that doesn't immediately suggest to me what you're trying to do with the project (not that I have a better one ATM mind you).

I think that it sounds cool.

TBH, this was part of the reason. It's also a bit based on some of the marketing training I've done, as well as finding a name that sounds... fancy. While names like Storm or Orb Weaver wouldn't make make a gamer or geek think twice, they tend to be less appealing to a general audience. I went with ascendancy because... well it sounds cool for one. I also think that it is a bit fitting, because a modular keyboard that allow you put something together that suits you, is the next level (trying so hard to say this without sounding conceited.)