New Truly Ergonomic models (207, 209); older models retired

[nomaded]

I've been happy with my 109 since getting it at the beginning of this year. I have one at work, on a Win7 box, and one at home, on an iMac. Well, actually, I've been happy, up until the 0 key on my work one started flaking out. Trying to get in touch with the guy to see what can be done about it.

As for remapping, I've had no problems with mapping on either keyboard. On Win7, I used KeyTweak to get my changes into the registry, so that I'd have them at the login screen. On OSX, I use both KeyRemap4MacBook and PCKeyboardHack. I haven't quite figured out how to get the remapping to work on the login screen, though.

Since I type Dvorak, I have made the following changes:

- Left space -> Backspace
- Left control -> Left shift
- Left shift -> Left Control
- ' -> / (/ is 'z' in Dvorak)
- Right alt -> Right control
- Right control -> Right shift
- Right shift -> ' (' is - in Dvorak)

At home, on OSX, I have the same changes, with the addition of Backspace -> Cmd.

Since I've seen several comments about how PCKeyboardHack doesn't seem to work in getting Left space -> Backspace, I'll check how I have it setup because it works fine for me, as long as I'm logged in, with KeyRemap4MacBook running. And I have no comments about the sleep issue since I don't sleep my iMac, but it reboots fine.

[tbaker000]

Got my new TEK 209 and decided that I needed to refresh my typing skills and went to this site to practice: http://www.powertyping.com/qwerty/lessonsq.htm
Unfortunately, after practicing for a while my (windows 7) machine rebooted.
I can reproduce this every time with the 209 but not with other standard keyboards.
Add another item to the of list things they will not respond to

Can anybody else reproduce this?

[Tracer]

Got my new TEK 209 and decided that I needed to refresh my typing skills and went to this site to practice: http://www.powertyping.com/qwerty/lessonsq.htm
Unfortunately, after practicing for a while my (windows 7) machine rebooted.
I can reproduce this every time with the 209 but not with other standard keyboards.
Add another item to the of list things they will not respond to

Can anybody else reproduce this?

I use the 109 and 209 daily in Windows 7 Pro (Home/Work) and have never had this issue.

[Tracer]

Unfortunately, for a keyboard like this, not being able to reprogram the board is a deal breaker. Maybe one of these days I'll spring for one just to pop it open and replace the chip with a teensy or something else reprogrammable.

I use KeyTweak for Windows. I can't imagine that similar software doesn't exist for other OSes. Yes, it's annoying there is no programming software, but it's not a deal breaker in any way. I can't use the default layout of this keyboard and never have. Mine you, having to use software like KeyTweak to go from QWERTY to DWORAK would be a huge pain. (Don't know how extensive your reprogramming will be)

[SilverRubicon]

Hmm does it resolve the waking from sleep and bootup issues on Macs do you know?

I did not know about this issue prior to purchasing my 209.  I have NOT had to plug and unplug the keyboard from the MBP nor have I had any other issues with waking.  I do have it plugged into USB hub.  I'd say that this issue has been resolved.

[Gerk]

Unfortunately, for a keyboard like this, not being able to reprogram the board is a deal breaker. Maybe one of these days I'll spring for one just to pop it open and replace the chip with a teensy or something else reprogrammable.

I use KeyTweak for Windows. I can't imagine that similar software doesn't exist for other OSes. Yes, it's annoying there is no programming software, but it's not a deal breaker in any way. I can't use the default layout of this keyboard and never have. Mine you, having to use software like KeyTweak to go from QWERTY to DWORAK would be a huge pain. (Don't know how extensive your reprogramming will be)

It's a deal breaker when they advertised for 1.5 years (and already had our money) that this keyboard would come with reprogramming software that worked in all OSes ... and then it didn't.  And now they don't even mention it on their site.   When I paid for this board that was supposed to be part of the deal.  Doesn't instil much faith in their promises and if someone wanted to go after them for it legally they would probably win and the TE folks would either have to deliver the software or refund some money to everyone that purchased.

Hmm does it resolve the waking from sleep and bootup issues on Macs do you know?

I did not know about this issue prior to purchasing my 209.  I have NOT had to plug and unplug the keyboard from the MBP nor have I had any other issues with waking.  I do have it plugged into USB hub.  I'd say that this issue has been resolved.

That's good to hear at the very least.  Now I wish they would release the firmware update so that my keyboard could work like this.  They do still specifically say on their site that OSX users may experience problems and have to unplug/replug .. so maybe you just got lucky or it doesn't affect your specific hardware combination.  I also plug mine into a hub and have this problem (in fact last night I noticed that I had to unplug the keyboard in order to boot up my machine after clearing the PRAM or it wouldn't even boot).  After first boot then I am able to cold start with it plugged in -- but then I do have to unplug/re-plug to get it to actually register and work in the OS.

That all sounds like buggy firmware to me so let's hope they at least make some sort of effort to fix it.

[Tracer]

Unfortunately, for a keyboard like this, not being able to reprogram the board is a deal breaker. Maybe one of these days I'll spring for one just to pop it open and replace the chip with a teensy or something else reprogrammable.

I use KeyTweak for Windows. I can't imagine that similar software doesn't exist for other OSes. Yes, it's annoying there is no programming software, but it's not a deal breaker in any way. I can't use the default layout of this keyboard and never have. Mine you, having to use software like KeyTweak to go from QWERTY to DWORAK would be a huge pain. (Don't know how extensive your reprogramming will be)

It's a deal breaker when they advertised for 1.5 years (and already had our money) that this keyboard would come with reprogramming software that worked in all OSes ... and then it didn't.  And now they don't even mention it on their site.   When I paid for this board that was supposed to be part of the deal.  Doesn't instil much faith in their promises and if someone wanted to go after them for it legally they would probably win and the TE folks would either have to deliver the software or refund some money to everyone that purchased.

They do mention it on their site:
https://secure.trulyergonomic.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=20_69
https://secure.trulyergonomic.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=79_75#Application

And it took them a year of delays just to get the keyboard out and made. Yes, you can criticize their poor communication and updates all you want, and I will agree. Considering how obvious that this is a mom and pop operation though, I can't really complain about the delays much. I have faith the software will come. When? Who knows..  but considering this is the closest thing that exists to my ideal keyboard, griping over reprogrammable firmware is rather minor at least for me.

[Gerk]

They do mention it on their site:
https://secure.trulyergonomic.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=20_69
https://secure.trulyergonomic.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=79_75#Application

And it took them a year of delays just to get the keyboard out and made. Yes, you can criticize their poor communication and updates all you want, and I will agree. Considering how obvious that this is a mom and pop operation though, I can't really complain about the delays much. I have faith the software will come. When? Who knows..  but considering this is the closest thing that exists to my ideal keyboard, griping over reprogrammable firmware is rather minor at least for me.

I'm glad for you then if this is the closest thing that exists to your ideal keyboard.  It's kind of far from mine hence the need to reprogram keys.  At this point I have little faith the software will come, and if it does by that point in time I may have completely given up on the keyboard itself.  BTW where it says "click here to learn more" about the software they are supposedly making ... it only then tells you about the third party software you can use.  There is only that one mention of the software on their site now.

As for the year of delay to get the keyboard made, I think you may have jumped into the whole situation later than some of us here ... it was longer than a year unless my memory is fooling me.  They missed their shipping date by over a year (let alone when they first started collecting pre-order money).

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one though because I still feel like I got the pointy end of the stick on this one.  And also worth mentioning there are some things that just don't work on OSX (like the number pad/num lock) and they don't look like they are being addressed.  They certainly still don't work on the new models -- they just made notes about the things that don't work now and blame the OS, but funny enough ALL my other keyboards have no issues with num lock so who's to blame there ...  will we ever get the promised software and/or fixes for the issues with the current hardware's firmware?  I'm kind of doubting it at this point.

[Tracer]

They do mention it on their site:
https://secure.trulyergonomic.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=20_69
https://secure.trulyergonomic.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=79_75#Application

And it took them a year of delays just to get the keyboard out and made. Yes, you can criticize their poor communication and updates all you want, and I will agree. Considering how obvious that this is a mom and pop operation though, I can't really complain about the delays much. I have faith the software will come. When? Who knows..  but considering this is the closest thing that exists to my ideal keyboard, griping over reprogrammable firmware is rather minor at least for me.

I'm glad for you then if this is the closest thing that exists to your ideal keyboard.  It's kind of far from mine hence the need to reprogram keys.

Why did you buy this keyboard if it was so far from your ideal keyboard? Unless you just mean the mapping of the keys. In which case I can sympathise with you. I did not buy this keyboard on pre-order but after it was launched so I knew when purchasing it that I would have to use third party software. I can see having pre-ordered the the expectation of having remapping ability being annoyed.

  At this point I have little faith the software will come, and if it does by that point in time I may have completely given up on the keyboard itself.  BTW where it says "click here to learn more" about the software they are supposedly making ... it only then tells you about the third party software you can use.  There is only that one mention of the software on their site now.

Every product page lists "Reprogrammable" as a feature. Honestly, from what I remember this is about the same amount of content about the reprogramability of the keyboard as has always existed.

As for the year of delay to get the keyboard made, I think you may have jumped into the whole situation later than some of us here ... it was longer than a year unless my memory is fooling me.  They missed their shipping date by over a year (let alone when they first started collecting pre-order money).

I had actually preordered when the preorders had first started. I then cancelled the preorder and got my money back. I still have all my emails since signing up to the original mailing list for initial pre-orders.
Initial preorders were taken in Oct. 2010.
Expectations where around the holiday time frame for shipping. 
Got my money back in March.
Keyboards didn't ship until Jan-Feb of this year.
So about 1 year in delays (+/- 1 mont).

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one though because I still feel like I got the pointy end of the stick on this one.  And also worth mentioning there are some things that just don't work on OSX (like the number pad/num lock) and they don't look like they are being addressed.  They certainly still don't work on the new models -- they just made notes about the things that don't work now and blame the OS, but funny enough ALL my other keyboards have no issues with num lock so who's to blame there ...  will we ever get the promised software and/or fixes for the issues with the current hardware's firmware?  I'm kind of doubting it at this point.

This is the first really valid issue you've brought up. And this could also be pointing to why all the delays in the software. I can imagine them wanting to fix bugs in their keyboards basic functionality before features like repgrograming, especially with 3rd party software filling the gap.

I can see why you are frustrated, the company presented it self as a far more professional outfit then it really is. By now it's clear that it's a guy and his wife. All CS emails come from the same women, Michelle, and the keyboards were designed by a guy whos FB profile eludes me right now. However I do not feel they are in it to screw anyone. I feel that they are showing dedication to the product if anything, which can be seen in the fact that they have revised the keyboard already in the companies short life span.

If it's any help, provided you have a 109/209 model, I'll take the keyboard off your hands if you really don't want it anymore.

[Gerk]

Yep my email was in and around the same time frame for the pre-order as well so I overstated the time frame.

The hardware portion of things is close to my ideal but the key layouts are terrible for me.  I knew that going into it and was counting on decent re-programmability being part of the package.  I have made lots of tweaks and have the layout the way I want with the commercial software for the most part now but am still bitter I had to dish out for commercial software to do what I needed to do with this board (and KeyRemap4MacBook didn't get the job done).  Also as I say it doesn't work before a user actually logs in, which means that any single user and/or logging in makes it pretty useless if you do any key remapping.

The killer thing for me on this in terms of remapping is all the "geek" keys ... I code all day long every day and the disparity of location for all the things like [] {} - _ = + / ? \ | ' " are very difficult for me to deal with and still be able to get a decent amount of work done without ripping out my hair.  On a more typical keyboard layout they are all in a big group, but on the TE layouts the consideration for the location of those keys played second fiddle to the qwerty layout.  If I typed standard english/textual based stuff all day long I would probably be fine with the layout, but not for coding -- and unfortunately I code on all my machines on a regular basis.  Ideally I would love to be able to reprogram the layout on the board itself (like they Kinesis) but that's not going to happen.  I'm just hoping that their remapping software is low level enough to do what I want it to do.

Lastly I respect the Mom and Pop stuff and the failing I've had with them is twofold.  First and foremost the constant slipping date and secondly while I understand they want to move the hardware platform forward I think that they only did 75% of the job and have already moved on to the next project without finishing what they promised all the pre-orders for so long.  I've had to deal with a lot of that over the years with various types of hardware (admittedly usually much more expensive than a keyboard!) and I've just seen way too much abandonware when it comes to early adopters.  They tend to make promises for drivers/updates/whatever and then just never deliver, eventually moving up 3 hardware revisions, and then drop support for the early adopters and the original hardware if/when they do release the software.  As for holding off to fix bugs I'm all for that as well as I would rather have good code than buggy code any day, but at the same time something would be better than nothing.  They were never really that forthcoming with information which makes it more frustrating either.  So are they really working on it, or is the cheque in the mail (i.e. they haven't gotten to it yet but intend to at some point).

For now I'm going to hold on to it and see how things play out, but I may take you up on that offer in the future.  My board is a 109 w/ reds.

[c64]

The 104 is on sale for $179. Is the 207 worth $50 more?

[Tracer]

I purchased the 109 and then 209 so that I could use the extra keys provided by these keyboards to map keys to more closely match a "regular" keyboard. So I have cntrl, alt and shift in a more natural position. This would be impossible with the 104/105.

So it all depends on you. I personally wouldn't do it. Mind you, I also purchased both my 109 and 209 on sale for $170-180.

[c64]

I purchased the 109 and then 209 so that I could use the extra keys provided by these keyboards to map keys to more closely match a "regular" keyboard. So I have cntrl, alt and shift in a more natural position. This would be impossible with the 104/105.

So it all depends on you. I personally wouldn't do it. Mind you, I also purchased both my 109 and 209 on sale for $170-180.

Im a bit confused.  So the 209 has keys in a more natural position or you need to buy both to use the keys?

[Tracer]

I purchased the 109 and then 209 so that I could use the extra keys provided by these keyboards to map keys to more closely match a "regular" keyboard. So I have cntrl, alt and shift in a more natural position. This would be impossible with the 104/105.

So it all depends on you. I personally wouldn't do it. Mind you, I also purchased both my 109 and 209 on sale for $170-180.

Im a bit confused.  So the 209 has keys in a more natural position or you need to buy both to use the keys?

The 209 and 109 are identical other than their default key mappings.
The reason I like those boards is that they have extra keys so you can have alt and ctrl and subsequently shift and enter in about the position you expect them on a keyboard. You cannot do this on the 104, 105 and 207 models.

The keys I'm talking about are the ones on the bottom left and right. On the 104, 105 and 207, it's one double wide key, on the 109 and 209, it's two keys.