Alps Appreciation Thread

[Hypersphere]

ED2914: What is the "fake Model M"? Could you give some details about this board?

[romevi]

ED2914: What is the "fake Model M"? Could you give some details about this board?

Unicomp, maybe?

[Blaise170]

ED2914: What is the "fake Model M"? Could you give some details about this board?

Unicomp, maybe?

No there are some Alps boards found in China that are modeled to look like IBM Model M boardsboards. Speaking of which, I'll get my hands on mine this week, I just got them forwarded to my new place and they are nearby now.

[MandrewDavis]

ED2914: What is the "fake Model M"? Could you give some details about this board?

Unicomp, maybe?

No there are some Alps boards found in China that are modeled to look like IBM Model M boards. Speaking of which, I'll get my hands on mine this week, I just got them forwarded to my new place and they are nearby now.

In this thread a while back, there was a Chinese user who also had a blue alps Model M, what are the quality of the caps? Cherry is great in respect to accommodating off center presses and high profile keysets.

[E3E]

In this thread a while back, there was a Chinese user who also had a blue alps Model M, what are the quality of the caps? Cherry is great in respect to accommodating off center presses and high profile keysets.

While the caps might play a factor, I'm a little doubtful of this. In my experience, it's the switch top housings that create binding. Replacing those with fresh top housings restores a smooth feel where off-center presses pose no problems. I used to think Alps had an off-center issue too, but then I realized it was the switches' condition.

[alh84001]

In my limited experience with one board that had binding switches, there could be cases where there's binding but top housing is not the culprit, or if it is, it is restorable. I have a Chicony KB-5181PT whose SKCM Whites had really bad binding problem. After cleaning them up and lubing them with PTFE, they are probably not like NOS, but binding is completely gone.

[MandrewDavis]

In this thread a while back, there was a Chinese user who also had a blue alps Model M, what are the quality of the caps? Cherry is great in respect to accommodating off center presses and high profile keysets.

While the caps might play a factor, I'm a little doubtful of this. In my experience, it's the switch top housings that create binding. Replacing those with fresh top housings restores a smooth feel where off-center presses pose no problems. I used to think Alps had an off-center issue too, but then I realized it was the switches' condition.

Interesting, I just now messed around with AEK alphas and F-Row keycaps on a few different boards in various condition. My quick n' dirty tests seemed line up with what you were saying. When pressing off center, condition played a big role and the key's profile added to the problem.

[lunas]

Just finished putting together an Infinity using Salmon Alps harvested from an Apple M0116. This is my first try with Alps. I love the way they sound, but the switch is very stiff, almost mushy, compared to the clears and zeals I'm more used to. Prior to soldering, I opened up every switch and brushed them out, although they were all pretty clean. Is that typical for Salmons to feel much stiffer than cherry clears?

[emdude]

Finished my Brown Alps board!  Pretty fun build and great keyboard to use:





Brief build log here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=84246.0

[Mattr567]

Finished my Brown Alps board!  Pretty fun build and great keyboard to use:

Show Image

Show Image

Brief build log here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=84246.0

Wannnnnnntttt

[klennkellon]

Finished my Brown Alps board!  Pretty fun build and great keyboard to use:

Show Image

Show Image

Brief build log here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=84246.0

I like the enter key.

It's like a big-ass enter key wearing a girdle.

[Moistgun]

Finished my Brown Alps board!  Pretty fun build and great keyboard to use:

Show Image

Show Image

Brief build log here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=84246.0

SOO MUCH ENTER.

I actually like this alot. Very unique.

what kind of shape are the browns in?

[emdude]

SOO MUCH ENTER.

I actually like this alot. Very unique.

what kind of shape are the browns in?

The browns are in pretty good shape, there was practically no dust in the switches even before I cleaned up the housings.

I like the enter key.

It's like a big-ass enter key wearing a girdle.

I like it a lot too!  I suppose it's more of a 'slim'-ass Enter, reminds me of the BAEs on some vintage Apple boards like the M0116.

I think I can understand why Chyros like BAE layouts.

[chyros]

SOO MUCH ENTER.

I actually like this alot. Very unique.

what kind of shape are the browns in?

The browns are in pretty good shape, there was practically no dust in the switches even before I cleaned up the housings.

I like the enter key.

It's like a big-ass enter key wearing a girdle.

I like it a lot too!  I suppose it's more of a 'slim'-ass Enter, reminds me of the BAEs on some vintage Apple boards like the M0116.

I think I can understand why Chyros like BAE layouts.

Teehee . Nice board btw!

[Blaise170]

Just finished putting together an Infinity using Salmon Alps harvested from an Apple M0116. This is my first try with Alps. I love the way they sound, but the switch is very stiff, almost mushy, compared to the clears and zeals I'm more used to. Prior to soldering, I opened up every switch and brushed them out, although they were all pretty clean. Is that typical for Salmons to feel much stiffer than cherry clears?

Probably feels mushy from when you opened it up.

[fohat.digs]

I think I can understand why Chyros like BAE layouts.

Teehee

Bigass Enter does not bother me in the slightest, and I even kind of like the way it looks.

What kills the deal for me is 1u Backspace and split Shift keys, because I habitually use the "other side" of those keys.

[chyros]

I think I can understand why Chyros like BAE layouts.

Teehee

Bigass Enter does not bother me in the slightest, and I even kind of like the way it looks.

What kills the deal for me is 1u Backspace and split Shift keys, because I habitually use the "other side" of those keys.

What about the Northgate layout then?

[fohat.digs]

What about the Northgate layout then?

The only Northgate that I keep is the 101. I just wish that there was a 101+ that had left function keys. I had hoped that Northgate had done like IBM and built a circuit board that had switch locations to make various layouts possible, but, alas, no.

[alh84001]

BAE by itself wouldn't bother me at all, but it pushes |\ all over the place - it either takes up half of the backspace key, or it ends up at far right, on the other side of the shift key. That's why HHKB layout is great.

And I second fohat, 101+ would be awesome. Omnikey Unsaver would be better, though  )

[chyros]

What about the Northgate layout then?

The only Northgate that I keep is the 101. I just wish that there was a 101+ that had left function keys. I had hoped that Northgate had done like IBM and built a circuit board that had switch locations to make various layouts possible, but, alas, no.

That's just an ANSI layout, I kinda meant the one with the bigass enter, fullsize backspace and the extra keys between ctrl and alt (as opposed to a split right shift). That one circumvents the small backspace and split shift .

[Hypersphere]

@emdude: Nice custom board! What was your source of brown Alps? Are they SKCM tactile browns?

I have a 60% custom SKCM brown Alps board with a stainless steel plate. The person who built the board told me that the switches are from a Videowriter 250. I had typed on a Videowriter and on an IBM 5140, both with SKCM tactile brown Alps, and the switches felt just fine in their native boards. However, these switches in the custom 60% board  feel very stiff and unyielding. I attribute this to the rigid stainless steel plate.

I'm typing now on my Northgate Omnikey 101. I like the sound and feel of this board very much, and I seem to type faster and more accurately on it than on other Alps-switch boards. It also looks fairly good with the Tai-Hao Dolch keycaps. However, I wish I could shrink it to 60% or even TKL! (But maybe it needs a long plate and PCB to enable it to flex a bit -- if I could shrink the Omnikey to 60%, I wonder if it would feel too stiff and unyielding?).

[fohat.digs]

I kinda meant the one with the bigass enter, fullsize backspace and the extra keys between ctrl and alt (as opposed to a split right shift).
That one circumvents the small backspace and split shift .

I'm not sure that I have ever had one of those. What model is it? I don't think that I have ever had a later one with Windows keys.

[chyros]

I kinda meant the one with the bigass enter, fullsize backspace and the extra keys between ctrl and alt (as opposed to a split right shift).
That one circumvents the small backspace and split shift .

I'm not sure that I have ever had one of those. What model is it? I don't think that I have ever had a later one with Windows keys.

Sorry, I seem to have misremembered. I thought this layout was present on some Northgates, but it appears they ALL had the split right shift apart from the 101. The layout I mean is actually another Focus layout (not the one generally referred to as THE Focus layout):



The blank key on the left side is also a backslash key, by the way, it just uses a different scan code.

[emdude]

@emdude: Nice custom board! What was your source of brown Alps? Are they SKCM tactile browns?

I have a 60% custom SKCM brown Alps board with a stainless steel plate. The person who built the board told me that the switches are from a Videowriter 250. I had typed on a Videowriter and on an IBM 5140, both with SKCM tactile brown Alps, and the switches felt just fine in their native boards. However, these switches in the custom 60% board  feel very stiff and unyielding. I attribute this to the rigid stainless steel plate.

I'm typing now on my Northgate Omnikey 101. I like the sound and feel of this board very much, and I seem to type faster and more accurately on it than on other Alps-switch boards. It also looks fairly good with the Tai-Hao Dolch keycaps. However, I wish I could shrink it to 60% or even TKL! (But maybe it needs a long plate and PCB to enable it to flex a bit -- if I could shrink the Omnikey to 60%, I wonder if it would feel too stiff and unyielding?).

Thanks, and yeah, they are tactile Browns from the same 5140 I got the key caps from.

I have another 5140 keyboard and for some reason, the SKCM Browns in those feel just slightly less stiff as well; not too much of a difference, though.

Out of curiosity, what is the thickness of the plate in your board?  My custom uses a 1.0mm stainless steel plate, at the bottom end of what Alps specs recommend, and it felt pretty pliable.  Perhaps that's why my board does not feel too harsh.

[lunas]

Just finished putting together an Infinity using Salmon Alps harvested from an Apple M0116. This is my first try with Alps. I love the way they sound, but the switch is very stiff, almost mushy, compared to the clears and zeals I'm more used to. Prior to soldering, I opened up every switch and brushed them out, although they were all pretty clean. Is that typical for Salmons to feel much stiffer than cherry clears?

Probably feels mushy from when you opened it up.

How so? Do you think I did more damage than good? The main issue seems to be when typing quickly and not hitting on center which I know can be a reason for stiffness on some Alps. Maybe some dry lube will make a difference, although I tested a few with lube and they didn't feel much different pre-install.

[Hypersphere]

@emdude: I don't know the thickness of the stainless steel plate in my custom brown Alps 60% board. From what I can see on the edge, it looks like the plate might be thicker than 1.0 mm. If I should decide to take it out of its aluminum case, I will try to remember to measure the thickness of the plate and let you know.

On my brown Alps 60%, I have installed IBM 5140 dye-sub PBT alphanumerics, blank black ABS mods and spacebar from Matias, and a red doubleshot ABS Esc from SP. The IBM 5140 dye-sub PBTs are my favorites for alpha keys on Alps-mount keyboards.

In the meantime, I am really enjoying my Northgate Omnikey 101. The more I type on it, the more I like it. The main drawback is that I much prefer either a 60% or TKL form factor. I also like to use a HHKB layout -- I can achieve the layout nearly enough through remapping, but I can't readily change the size of the keyboard!

Next project -- I am going to change the color of the Omnikey 101 top case after I round up the necessary items.

[emdude]

@emdude: I don't know the thickness of the stainless steel plate in my custom brown Alps 60% board. From what I can see on the edge, it looks like the plate might be thicker than 1.0 mm. If I should decide to take it out of its aluminum case, I will try to remember to measure the thickness of the plate and let you know.

On my brown Alps 60%, I have installed IBM 5140 dye-sub PBT alphanumerics, blank black ABS mods and spacebar from Matias, and a red doubleshot ABS Esc from SP. The IBM 5140 dye-sub PBTs are my favorites for alpha keys on Alps-mount keyboards.

In the meantime, I am really enjoying my Northgate Omnikey 101. The more I type on it, the more I like it. The main drawback is that I much prefer either a 60% or TKL form factor. I also like to use a HHKB layout -- I can achieve the layout nearly enough through remapping, but I can't readily change the size of the keyboard!

Next project -- I am going to change the color of the Omnikey 101 top case after I round up the necessary items.

Interesting, I forgot that SP had a small selection of Alps key caps.  I might pick up that red Esc key, the profile for that row looks similar enough to Alps OEM.

Your Omnikey project sounds neat, how do you plan to change the color of  the top case?  Paint, plasti dip, or dye?

[mike52787]

@emdude: I don't know the thickness of the stainless steel plate in my custom brown Alps 60% board. From what I can see on the edge, it looks like the plate might be thicker than 1.0 mm. If I should decide to take it out of its aluminum case, I will try to remember to measure the thickness of the plate and let you know.

On my brown Alps 60%, I have installed IBM 5140 dye-sub PBT alphanumerics, blank black ABS mods and spacebar from Matias, and a red doubleshot ABS Esc from SP. The IBM 5140 dye-sub PBTs are my favorites for alpha keys on Alps-mount keyboards.

In the meantime, I am really enjoying my Northgate Omnikey 101. The more I type on it, the more I like it. The main drawback is that I much prefer either a 60% or TKL form factor. I also like to use a HHKB layout -- I can achieve the layout nearly enough through remapping, but I can't readily change the size of the keyboard!

Next project -- I am going to change the color of the Omnikey 101 top case after I round up the necessary items.

As for painting omnikey cases, do you remember when I painted my avant prime case beige to hide yellowing? It still looks good. The cases will accept paint nicely if you want to go that route.

[Hypersphere]

Regarding changing the color of the Omnikey 101 top case, it seems there are four ways of coating and/or coloring keyboard cases and/or plates:

+ Powder coat -- Fine for metals, but generally the required temperatures are too high for most polymers. Requires specialized equipment.

+ Paint -- Okay for metals. For polymers, the solvent type needs to be compatible with the particular plastic. Good for DIY.

+ Cerakote -- Can be used on metals or plastics. The thin coating does not require high-temperature curing. Requires specialized equipment.

+ Vinyl dye -- For polymers and some fabrics. Penetrates into the plastic; does not build up into a thick coating. Seems more forgiving than paint.

I've gotten some excellent advice on all these methods from various people, including XMIT and Fohat. Putting it all together, I think I am going to try vinyl dye. Fohat recommended Dupli-Color, which he says is actually a thin coating rather than a dye, but it appears to use the same application methods as other products that go under the classification of vinyl dyes, such as the vinyl coloring products made by SEM and VHT.

I hope to get to this project during the next couple of weeks.

[E3E]

Regarding changing the color of the Omnikey 101 top case, it seems there are four ways of coating and/or coloring keyboard cases and/or plates:

+ Powder coat -- Fine for metals, but generally the required temperatures are too high for most polymers. Requires specialized equipment.

+ Paint -- Okay for metals. For polymers, the solvent type needs to be compatible with the particular plastic. Good for DIY.

+ Cerakote -- Can be used on metals or plastics. The thin coating does not require high-temperature curing. Requires specialized equipment.

+ Vinyl dye -- For polymers and some fabrics. Penetrates into the plastic; does not build up into a thick coating. Seems more forgiving than paint.

I've gotten some excellent advice on all these methods from various people, including XMIT and Fohat. Putting it all together, I think I am going to try vinyl dye. Fohat recommended Dupli-Color, which he says is actually a thin coating rather than a dye, but it appears to use the same application methods as other products that go under the classification of vinyl dyes, such as the vinyl coloring products made by SEM and VHT.

I hope to get to this project during the next couple of weeks.

I think SEM or VHT would work quite well, though I have heard that SEM can potentially rub off and is more of a layer. I know Wingpad has experience with VHT. I myself would try VHT if I were dyeing a case or attempting to dye an ABS space bar (again). What I used for my Orion's space bar to make it black was using acetone in a solution with water and dye to allow it to penetrate the ABS at a low temperature and closely monitored it with a digital thermometer.

[Wingpad]

I think SEM or VHT would work quite well, though I have heard that SEM can potentially rub off and is more of a layer. I know Wingpad has experience with VHT. I myself would try VHT if I were dyeing a case or attempting to dye an ABS space bar (again). What I used for my Orion's space bar to make it black was using acetone in a solution with water and dye to allow it to penetrate the ABS at a low temperature and closely monitored it with a digital thermometer.

I heard my name... you rang? Can confirm that VHT works well on ABS. Feel free to ask me anything about my experience. It has actually kept well over the last couple of months (and since it's a thin coating it preserves a lot of the details of the thing you're painting).

[E3E]

I think SEM or VHT would work quite well, though I have heard that SEM can potentially rub off and is more of a layer. I know Wingpad has experience with VHT. I myself would try VHT if I were dyeing a case or attempting to dye an ABS space bar (again). What I used for my Orion's space bar to make it black was using acetone in a solution with water and dye to allow it to penetrate the ABS at a low temperature and closely monitored it with a digital thermometer.

I heard my name... you rang? Can confirm that VHT works well on ABS. Feel free to ask me anything about my experience. It has actually kept well over the last couple of months.

Here's a question, good sir.

Can ABS be dyed with VHT without the legends becoming obscured? Is it possible to dye in lighter shades of the same color or does it always amount to the same intensity. Say for more greyish blacks or lighter blues and what not.

[Wingpad]

Here's a question, good sir.

Can ABS be dyed with VHT without the legends becoming obscured? Is it possible to dye in lighter shades of the same color or does it always amount to the same intensity. Say for more greyish blacks or lighter blues and what not.

From my experience, it seems like it will always come out to the intensity. If you're spraying "lightly" you'll just end up leaving things uncovered like a air brush effect in paint. I was able to save laser engraved legends but that's only because the thin coating preserves the laser engraved details of the cap itself. Note that your mileage may vary if you try applying it with something other than a rattle can.

[alh84001]

Well, this is interesting. I went on and did a nickel test on the SKCM Ambers I got, and I get them to actuate with, on average, 14 coins. Sometimes a switch here or there will actuate with 15 coins, and rarely some switch will sometimes actuate with 13 coins, but on average and most of the time it will be with 14. So, my ambers are close to 70gf, which is significantly less than the usual number of 80gf. Worth noting is that the switches seem in good condition, with no binding or scratchiness and they are quite clean. ABS spacebar that came with them shows some yellowing, but not much.

P.S. Wingpad, thanks for sharing your experience with dyeing.

[chyros]

Yeah, they are usually cited as 80-100 gf but that's bull****, someone just had a dirty board. I've found it to be quite consistent at 75 gf.

[alh84001]

I also tested my blues, which seem to be not in the best condition. Not bad like some whites I had, but could be smoother I guess. They actuate at 15 coins.

The difference between the switches is visible when pushing one slider against the other. At first, blue slider gives in, but right before it is about to actuate, amber starts giving in and actuates first. I am wondering if anyone can reproduce it, or it's just my blues giving too much resistance around the actuation point.

I'll play around with switching the housings when I catch time to see if there is any difference.

[chyros]

I also tested my blues, which seem to be not in the best condition. Not bad like some whites I had, but could be smoother I guess. They actuate at 15 coins.

The difference between the switches is visible when pushing one slider against the other. At first, blue slider gives in, but right before it is about to actuate, amber starts giving in and actuates first. I am wondering if anyone can reproduce it, or it's just my blues giving too much resistance around the actuation point.

I'll play around with switching the housings when I catch time to see if there is any difference.

Do you weigh the specific coins you used on a balance? How many switches do you test per board? Also, do you try to gently re-seat coins after you stacked them?

[PollandAkuma]

Hi ALPS fans, I'm new here. I've been interested in getting an Atreus with either Matias clicky or quiet click, but I'm worried that it'll be heavy, since I hate hate hate scissors switches (62-5g?). But on the other hand, I know ALPS can be lubed and stuff even without desoldering, so thats a plus. Right now I'm deciding between ALPS Atreus or HHKB. What do you think I should go for?

[alh84001]

Do you weigh the specific coins you used on a balance? How many switches do you test per board? Also, do you try to gently re-seat coins after you stacked them?

Well, for blues I tested bare switches, since I don't have them in the board yet. Haven't weighed the coins, but I always use the same set of nickels, and they shouldn't deviate much from 5g as they are specified. I also try to get the stack as straight as possible and as level as possible. I tested some 10 amber switches, and for blues, I took out just random 3 out of the bag.

[E3E]

Yeah, they are usually cited as 80-100 gf but that's bull****, someone just had a dirty board. I've found it to be quite consistent at 75 gf.

I thought they felt very similar to Alps SKCM Brown when I had them in my custom. Like Hypersphere mentioned, the rigidity of a plate like stainless steel or CF, in my case, really makes the tactility incredibly pronounced. They felt fine in the Iic, but like rocky road in the Hammer. Their weight always struck me as similar to SKCM Brown, so I'm glad I wasn't off.

I think testing bare switches is the better way to do it. Firstly, because you don't have to deal with the cap's step making it awkward to balance the coins, and secondly, because caps add a bit of their own weight. I think it's best to test them alone.

That said, the blues I tested definitely weren't as stiff as ambers. Weird! I'll need to check weights again, though I have no ambers to test now.

[chyros]

Hi ALPS fans, I'm new here. I've been interested in getting an Atreus with either Matias clicky or quiet click, but I'm worried that it'll be heavy, since I hate hate hate scissors switches (62-5g?). But on the other hand, I know ALPS can be lubed and stuff even without desoldering, so thats a plus. Right now I'm deciding between ALPS Atreus or HHKB. What do you think I should go for?

Matias switches aren't exactly the same as Alps, but they're related for sure. Neither are known for being particularly light switches tbh xD . I'd advise against lubricating Alps and similar switches as no-one has found a lube that really works well with them yet.

Do you weigh the specific coins you used on a balance? How many switches do you test per board? Also, do you try to gently re-seat coins after you stacked them?

Well, for blues I tested bare switches, since I don't have them in the board yet. Haven't weighed the coins, but I always use the same set of nickels, and they shouldn't deviate much from 5g as they are specified. I also try to get the stack as straight as possible and as level as possible. I tested some 10 amber switches, and for blues, I took out just random 3 out of the bag.

Do you use only nickels or smaller coins too? I try to use different combinations of coins to narrow it down to as small a range (1-2 g) as possible. The heavy weigh of the blues you mentioned is really weird, it's much higher than we have on record, are they in good condition?

[E3E]

I'd advise against lubricating Alps and similar switches as no-one has found a lube that really works well with them yet.

It's those damn top housings. Once they go, they're incredibly hard to restore. It's better to salvage tops off of good condition common boards than to try and clean and lubricate them; that only goes so far in my experience.

I'm still not sure what causes the wear to the tops in the first place, as I've seen clean switches that still have binding and it all comes from the tops. IMO, the top housings account for a majority of the feel in terms of condition, even beyond the sliders.

[alh84001]

Do you use only nickels or smaller coins too? I try to use different combinations of coins to narrow it down to as small a range (1-2 g) as possible. The heavy weigh of the blues you mentioned is really weird, it's much higher than we have on record, are they in good condition?

I use just nickels to get the approximate range of 5g. I never needed to narrow it down more, and the lightest common coins around these parts are 2.5g. There are two coins of 0,7g and 0,92g, but they are so small and worthless that nobody bothers with them And what do you know, there is a coin of exactly 5g, so I didn't need to collect all those nickels in the states

As for blues, it must be that their condition is worse than I hoped/expected/assumed. They are quite dirty on the outside, and I will have to open them up to see how they look inside. I'll also have to put some caps on and see if they bind then.

[Hypersphere]

@PollandAkuma: Matias switches and Topre switches are very different. Matias Click switches are very loud. Matias Quiet switches live up to their name, but I don't particularly like the cushioning effect on the downstroke.

Topre  (both 45g and 55g) are among my favorites -- they are especially nice with Silencing Rings and lubing of stabilizers and switch slider rails with a synthetic oil. Neither Matias nor Topre feel too heavy to me, but some people report that 55g Topre can be fatiguing for long typing sessions.

As for the HHKB, for me, this board has a winning combination of ingredients -- 60% form factor, intuitive and efficient layout, Topre 45g switches, and excellent dye-sublimated PBT keycaps. It is even better after installing Silencing Rings and proper lubing.

Back to Alps appreciation -- one of the items on my long to-do list is to build a custom 60% board with blue Alps switches and a HHKB layout.

[chyros]

What I tend to do is make a stack of heavy coins, often British ones, which are super weighty (9.5 g for the pound, 12 g for the 2 pound coin), and determine the highest amount of those under which the switches definitely DON'T actuate. Then I use smaller coins, like 10 p, 20 p, etc. and combinations of those, to narrow it down as far as possible. Using heavy coins has the advantage that you end up with a very compact stack, which helps with keeping it straight and upright, both of which influence the results. I test every switch a whole bunch of times, and after they bottom out, I lift the coins as little as possible as is necessary to reset them, and then very very carefully release the coins on the plunger (never on keycaps if at all possible! Fortunately this is a doddle with Alps sliders) without imparting any impact force (essentially I try my hardest not to actuate them). Then I do the same on a a bunch of other switches from the same board, preferably a NOS one. I note down the combinations of coins necessary to actuate the switches, and bring those exact coins to work and weigh them on our analytical lab balance. For amber Alps, for example, which I weighed today as a matter of fact, I found that NONE of the switches actuated at 73.4723 g, but ALL of them actuated at 75.4456 g, so I suspect they're weighted at roughly 75 gf.

[alh84001]

Thanks! It's nice to have some hard numbers as a reference. If you catch time, could you do the same with the blues?

[Hypersphere]

@Chyros: Wow! Six significant figures!

A trick I've used is to stack my US nickles within the paper tubes that you get get at banks. This keeps the                                          stack straight and prevents coins from toppling. You can weigh the paper if you like to include its contribution to the total weight.

[chyros]

@Chyros: Wow! Six significant figures!

A trick I've used is to stack my US nickles within the paper tubes that you get get at banks. This keeps the                                          stack straight and prevents coins from toppling. You can weigh the paper if you like to include its contribution to the total weight.

One one occasion I actually used the lab balance calibration weights xD . They're the kind that are so precise you need to wear them with gloves, because the weight of your fingerprints can upset them.

Thanks! It's nice to have some hard numbers as a reference. If you catch time, could you do the same with the blues?

I could, but haven't bothered, because someone measured them with an actual force meter .



It appears the measurement points have some margin of error as the lines are rather wavy, and I don't know how large the sample database was or what the condition of the switches was, but it's still pretty useful . Among others you can spot the origin of the "rough" feeling of black Alps, lower weight of orange Alps, different weights and tactile points of green and yellow Alps, etc.

[alh84001]

Wow, those blues at ~62gf seem quite light. I kind of selfishly wanted you to do the measurement in the exact same conditions and equipment as for ambers, to have results as comparable as possible

I bet the ambers would have the bump on the left side of that chart. Do we know why the blacks and creams have two bumps instead of one? In programmer terms, is it a (condition-related) bug or a feature of the design?

Edit: I guess oranges and whites have the same second bump, but it is not as pronounced, and linears also have what corresponds to a second bump in clickys and tactiles.

[alienman82]

removed.