What do you think about the HHKB free spaces at its bottom corners?

[ideus]

They rock! because ...
They are wasted spaces? Ok, under what logic?
It is just marketing. Really?
They are part of the overall design and the reasoning is ....
I'd preferred them to be symmetric, because ...

Your own argument.

[FrostyToast]

It just makes it look better aesthetically.
It's the same reason why people like WKL over winkey.

[njbair]

I think it looks cool in its own way. But not cool enough to compensate for the lost functionality and/or muscle memory learning curve.

[tararais]

I think it's due to the Unix layout, but either way there's not much they could put there, since they already committed to making Caps Lock on the Fn layer. Didn't take me long to get used to either way.

[fishcola]

don't own one, but it's beautiful. Like a better way to manage the gap between ctrl and alt on winkeyless boards. It's what makes 60% cherry boards ugly by comparison.

[jonathanyu]

don't own one, but it's beautiful. Like a better way to manage the gap between ctrl and alt on winkeyless boards. It's what makes 60% cherry boards ugly by comparison.

how about 60% cherry board in hhkb layout.  for example, the gon hhkb

[Air tree]

don't own one, but it's beautiful. Like a better way to manage the gap between ctrl and alt on winkeyless boards. It's what makes 60% cherry boards ugly by comparison.

how about 60% cherry board in hhkb layout.  for example, the gon hhkb

Cherry in a HHKB layout is just a cherry board trying to appear better than it is...

[ideus]

These spaces are like cute things women do, they are nice ornaments.

[fanpeople]

HHKB is perfection, no explanation/opinion authorised.

[MajorMajor]

Not a fan of the tiny Alt for the sake of aesthetics, not even to save space.

[sth]

HHKB is perfection, no explanation/opinion authorised.

actually there is a lot of explanation from an authoritative source - the designer. http://deskthority.net/wiki/Happy_Hacking_Keyboard#External_links

Not a fan of the tiny Alt for the sake of aesthetics, not even to save space.

found the emacs user

[fanpeople]

HHKB is perfection, no explanation/opinion authorised.

actually there is a lot of explanation from an authoritative source - the designer. http://deskthority.net/wiki/Happy_Hacking_Keyboard#External_links

Did not read, see previous post.

[ideus]

Dr. Eiti Wada

[keshley]

Since I prefer Control next to A, I don't miss the corner keys at all.

Aesthetically, I think it lends itself to the minimalist 60% ideology quite well.

[ideus]

I wrote to Dr. Wada today, and he gracefully answered:

 Dear Eric
 
It's nice to receive email from HHKB enthusiasts in the world like you!
 
> There have been rumors on a possible upgrade of the current HHKB II
> design. I would like to have your expert and insider opinion about a
> possible new version of your design; also, if you have a list of design
> changes, either, if the upcoming version is an actual project, or to
> be included in future versions.
 
I am for these almost 20 years just one of happy users of HHKB.
 
HHKB is solely developed by PFU. I don't have any information. I would also like to have good news too.
 
Happy Hacking
 
Eiiti Wada
 

[sth]

I wrote to Dr. Wada today, and he gracefully answered:

 Dear Eric
 
It's nice to receive email from HHKB enthusiasts in the world like you!
 
> There have been rumors on a possible upgrade of the current HHKB II
> design. I would like to have your expert and insider opinion about a
> possible new version of your design; also, if you have a list of design
> changes, either, if the upcoming version is an actual project, or to
> be included in future versions.
 
I am for these almost 20 years just one of happy users of HHKB.
 
HHKB is solely developed by PFU. I don't have any information. I would also like to have good news too.
 
Happy Hacking
 
Eiiti Wada
 

[Findecanor]

Not enough space in the bottom right corner.


(the bottom right corner is also where I put the controller so that the keyboard does not need to be as high as a HHKB is in the back)

[ideus]

Not enough space in the bottom right corner.
(Attachment Link)

(the bottom right corner is also where I put the controller so that the keyboard does not need to be as high as a HHKB is in the back)

What keyboard is this?

[Hypersphere]

Suits me just fine. Don't need any superfluous keys, so it avoids confusion to omit what isn't needed.

[absyrd]

I thought the bottom corners were used for putting out your cigarettes while you chain-smoke coding for days on end.

[ideus]

I thought the bottom corners were used for putting out your cigarettes while you chain-smoke coding for days on end.

This is very cool.

[absyrd]

I thought the bottom corners were used for putting out your cigarettes while you chain-smoke coding for days on end.

This is very cool.

****. Should have patented built-in keyboard ashtrays before opening my mouth. LZ-LCE (Lung Cancer Edition) incoming...

[ideus]

I thought the bottom corners were used for putting out your cigarettes while you chain-smoke coding for days on end.

This is very cool.

****. Should have patented built-in keyboard ashtrays before opening my mouth. LZ-LCE (Lung Cancer Edition) incoming...

Too late, I am working on claims and sketching drawings for the application, but I can share inventor's rights with you, FPU patent is in the state of the art section.

 ) ) )

[Herothereu]

Wasted space.

Should have bought a Novatouch.

[boTy]

It definitely looks nice, but i think it could be used for something useful.

[ctm]

I used to think it was a big deal because having two Fn keys on bottom row was important for me. Later I learnt the idea of dual role spacebar and now I think I am fine with only fours modifiers at bottom row.

[lakiozoon]

If it weren't for those empty spaces, I probably would have bought one already.

[jwaz]

I wrote to Dr. Wada today, and he gracefully answered:

 Dear Eric
 
It's nice to receive email from HHKB enthusiasts in the world like you!
 
> There have been rumors on a possible upgrade of the current HHKB II
> design. I would like to have your expert and insider opinion about a
> possible new version of your design; also, if you have a list of design
> changes, either, if the upcoming version is an actual project, or to
> be included in future versions.
 
I am for these almost 20 years just one of happy users of HHKB.
 
HHKB is solely developed by PFU. I don't have any information. I would also like to have good news too.
 
Happy Hacking
 
Eiiti Wada
 

That's RAD.

[ideus]

If it weren't for those empty spaces, I probably would have bought one already.

The void is powerful, it can even take our deepest desires and captures them into a very, very big tag price.

[swimmingbird]

I thought the bottom corners were used for putting out your cigarettes while you chain-smoke coding for days on end.

This is the most cyberpunk thing I've ever heard

[Norman_the_Owl]

I could never game with one

[fanpeople]

I could never game with one

And you never will with that attitude.

[tararais]

I could never game with one

 
I don't have a problem playing tons of league or MGSV, but RTS games are probably out of the question.

[jcoffin1981]

I think it is very handsome.  I think they were trying to stand out from all of the Poker and V60's, and I think they accomplished that.

[ideus]

I think it is very handsome.  I think they were trying to stand out from all of the Poker and V60's, and I think they accomplished that.

I think the HHKB was designed when most of current 60% keyboard did not exist yet; thus, they do it for other reasons than competitors. Kishsavers existed though, with a version in a sixty layout. But that was a complete different animal. Anyway, there were more keyboards with empty spaces by then, maybe it was just because UNIX users did not need any other modifier at the bottom.

[swimmingbird]

I think it is very handsome.  I think they were trying to stand out from all of the Poker and V60's, and I think they accomplished that.

I think the HHKB was designed when most of current 60% keyboard did not exist yet; thus, they do it for other reasons than competitors. Kishsavers existed though, with a version in a sixty layout. But that was a complete different animal. Anyway, there were more keyboards with empty spaces by then, maybe it was just because UNIX users did not need any other modifier at the bottom.

I'm actually fairly surprised that the OEM's haven't started copying the hhkb layout yet in their 60% boards

[sth]

I think it is very handsome.  I think they were trying to stand out from all of the Poker and V60's, and I think they accomplished that.

I think the HHKB was designed when most of current 60% keyboard did not exist yet; thus, they do it for other reasons than competitors. Kishsavers existed though, with a version in a sixty layout. But that was a complete different animal. Anyway, there were more keyboards with empty spaces by then, maybe it was just because UNIX users did not need any other modifier at the bottom.

I'm actually fairly surprised that the OEM's haven't started copying the hhkb layout yet in their 60% boards

they're not clever enough to do anything that isn't stock-standard ansi or the occasional ISO layout. maybe the pure gets an extra point for the split shift, but most of them don't want to gamble on alternative layouts because: a) the market is tiny, b) we're a fickle bunch of bastards and c) nobody ever got fired for buying ANSI.

[swimmingbird]

I think it is very handsome.  I think they were trying to stand out from all of the Poker and V60's, and I think they accomplished that.

I think the HHKB was designed when most of current 60% keyboard did not exist yet; thus, they do it for other reasons than competitors. Kishsavers existed though, with a version in a sixty layout. But that was a complete different animal. Anyway, there were more keyboards with empty spaces by then, maybe it was just because UNIX users did not need any other modifier at the bottom.

I'm actually fairly surprised that the OEM's haven't started copying the hhkb layout yet in their 60% boards

they're not clever enough to do anything that isn't stock-standard ansi or the occasional ISO layout. maybe the pure gets an extra point for the split shift, but most of them don't want to gamble on alternative layouts because: a) the market is tiny, b) we're a fickle bunch of bastards and c) nobody ever got fired for buying ANSI.

Yeah I guess the marketing department would rather not answer the mouth breathers 24/7 asking where the caps lock key is

[Bucake]

the mouth breathers

rofl

OT: i certainly like the aesthetics of the hhkb.
pretty sure i wouldn't miss the keys in the corners. on my RF i've had Ctrl switched with CL forever. my older keyboards also have the Ctrl where most keyboards nowadays use the CL.

[ideus]

Standardization improves efficiency; if keyboard manufacturers had pushed their efficiency for mechanical keyboards production, instead of going the easiest route of rubber domes, the world would be a more ergonomic place for PC users, nowadays. The problem is that everything about mechanical keyboards is considered premium and manufacturers care not about standardization and efficiency, the result is a fragmented market, that it is already small, broken into tiny niches that increase costs. The HHKB and many other specialty boards are examples of that. But, who cares, we are keyboard collectors that do not care about prices, don't we?

[rowdy]

Fine.

I do notice that the right size space is larger than the left side space, but otherwise it's little different to the spaces between, say, Ctrl and Alt on a 101 key keyboard.

[Norman_the_Owl]

I could never game with one

And you never will with that attitude.

Can't crouch without a lower left control key

[Norman_the_Owl]

I could never game with one

 
I don't have a problem playing tons of league or MGSV, but RTS games are probably out of the question.

Or fps. Good luck crouching

[keshley]

I could never game with one

 
I don't have a problem playing tons of league or MGSV, but RTS games are probably out of the question.

Or fps. Good luck crouching

Unless you don't use that key for crouching. Everybody is different.

[swimmingbird]

I could never game with one

 
I don't have a problem playing tons of league or MGSV, but RTS games are probably out of the question.

Or fps. Good luck crouching

I don't see the problem with this - in fact I'd say its ergonomically superior using the capslock position for crouch

Unless you don't use that key for crouching. Everybody is different.

[ideus]

What is crouch?

[SpAmRaY]

What is crouch?

[swimmingbird]

What is crouch?

[ideus]

Weird!

[jwaz]

I could never game with one

 
I don't have a problem playing tons of league or MGSV, but RTS games are probably out of the question.

Or fps. Good luck crouching

Doesn't everyone use capslock to crouch anyway? a key in the bottom left makes no sense ergonomically

[TacticalCoder]

They are wasted spaces? Ok, under what logic?

I looked at my HHKB and was like "which wasted space!?"

Oh, right, I've got that HHKB Pro JP (which totally rocks BTW -- tiny spacebar FTW and many modifiers easibly reachable with the thumbs FTW too).

Ain't the "logic" here simply that the HHKB Pro JP and HHKB Pro 2 have nearly the same case?

[Macsmasher]

WASD is not the holy grail gaming configuration. I FPS game with left-handed mouse, so my movement cluster is OKL: on the right side of the keyboard (I'm right-handed btw). Every game allows you to change key bindings for a reason. I understand that most guys are left hand on the keyboard. However, moving over just one row, say ESDF, provides more keys that you can assign functions to. And it is arguably better because you have the bump on the F key for your index finger, allowing you to find your movement cluster without looking. Seriously, I don't understand the resistance to changing from WASD. I guess the only reason to stay with WASD would be if you had custom keycaps for that cluster. And if you replaced the F key with the Topre four key replacement set for example, you'd lose your F key bump.

[NewbieOneKenobi]

My first inclination was with wasted space, but I realized that was exactly where I allowed my hands to rest sometimes, the bases of my small fingers. I press a lot of keys there with the side of my palm rather than with a finger, especially in combinations, and to some extent this also goes for left ALT (like in ALT+F4). I would probably be using left CTRL for support if it didn't move. Hence, I think the solid, stable ground there on which to rest that part of your palm may be very important pivot in the typic dynamics of your hands. Perhaps also ergonomy, as in enabling you to use young fingers in a bit similar way to how it's done on MS Natural or Curve or Logitech Wave (30º rather than the traditional 90º).

To get an illustration try pressing and holding CTRL+Q with just your left hand. You should then see what I mean.

[hoz]

i think i like it, especially accompanied by iso left shift to get "100%" iso functionality, building another wkl.kr hhkb up this week hopefully
the keys gone are keys i hate using in their original position anyway.

[Tiramisuu]

Old layout,  antiquated design,  rubber dome,  meh

[ideus]

Old layout,  antiquated design,  rubber dome,  meh

Hehe, the HHKB fans will crucify you.

[swimmingbird]

Old layout,  antiquated design,  rubber dome,  meh

Old layout - uses tkl 

[tararais]

Old layout,  antiquated design,  rubber dome,  meh

 
Die you peasant.

[hoz]

Old layout,  antiquated design,  rubber dome,  meh

what's new about the poker and a tkl? oO_

[swimmingbird]

Old layout,  antiquated design,  rubber dome,  meh

Hehe, the HHKB fans will crucify you.

We will beat you to death with our compact, highly concealable keyboards

[rowdy]

Old layout,  antiquated design,  rubber dome,  meh

Them's fightin' words!