Apple Magic Mouse

[itlnstln]

http://www.apple.com/magicmouse/
 
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[hyperlinked]

I'd have to try it out first. I'm one of those people who has a hell of a time doing the "tap click" thing on trackpads because my palms are always accidentally registering clicks while I'm typing. I'm also a bit leery of anything that has no tactile feedback, but it's Apple so I'm obligated to like it or something to that effect.

Neat idea. I like the low profile design of the mouse.

[itlnstln]

I would have a whole lot more respect for this device if they didn't start the promo with this:
 

Seamless Multi-Touch Surface
 
Magic Mouse — with its low-profile design and seamless top shell — is so sleek and dramatically different, it brings a whole new feel to the way you get around on your Mac. You can’t help but marvel at its smooth, buttonless appearance. Then you touch it and instantly appreciate how good it feels in your hand. But it’s when you start using Magic Mouse that everything comes together.

Yeah, they can't help but marvel at my... well... nevermind. That is the lamest product into ever. It's like the main selling point for this thing is the aesthetics, and oh yeah, by the way, it works completely differently, too, but go ahead, keep marvelling.
 
I hope it works out for them, though.

[timw4mail]

Well, considering my only problem with the mighty mouse was the scroll ball... I think it would be interesting to try.

[msiegel]

it's an iphoneless iphone!?

[itlnstln]

I would like to try one just to see what it's about, but it looks like it introduces more finger movement which might be more tiring in extended sessions.  A scroll wheel with "tilt" functionality keeps motion at a minimum, so I can't really see how some of the functionality of the Magic Mouse is any more efficient.  I'll just have to try one to see.  In the meantime, I can sit here and marvel at it.

[itlnstln]

More pics here.

[itlnstln]

Even more info: http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/20/apples-magic-mouse-multitouch-gestures-bluetooth-four-month/

[ch_123]

I get the impression this came from the same idiots who designed the 'hockey puck' mouse.

[itlnstln]

Again, I would actually have to try the thing first to substantiate any of this, but it seems like a mouse that flat would induce some serious hand and wrist pain.  I moved to a more rounded and angled mouse to (successfully) eliminate pain.  To me, this looks like design based just as much around aesthetics as it is for functionality.

[D-EJ915]

ugh...this kind of thing is obviously not designed for people who like shortcuts and keybindings

[Rajagra]

Looks like the thing that killed Steve Irwin.

[itlnstln]

ugh...this kind of thing is obviously not designed for people who like shortcuts and keybindings

You know, you're absolutely right.  I didn't even think about that.

[Viett]

Pretty much a touchpad on top of a mouse. Don't see the point.

[hyperlinked]

Well, considering my only problem with the mighty mouse was the scroll ball... I think it would be interesting to try.

I liked the idea of the scroll ball, but it was more awkward that I had hoped. It just wasn't useful enough for me to replace my Razer with it.

This thing has more of the shape that I look for in a mouse.

As for itlnstln comments about the touting of the looks of the mouse, it's just Apple. What do you expect? I don't say that in a mocking way either to itlnstln or Apple. It's just how the Apple brand identity goes.

it seems like a mouse that flat would induce some serious hand and wrist pain.  

Not necessarily. It all depends on how you hold your mouse. I hold mine with a very light touch between my thumb and pinkie finger. The other fingers help smooth the motions when they're not busy clicking buttons. I completely abhor big mice (most Logitechs) that are molded to the shape of your hand because you cannot easily alter how you hold those when your hand gets tired without making it hard to press the buttons.

I do. The mouse is the best for moving the pointer. Touchpads are best for gestures. This tries to combine them.

If it's heavy enough, it may work. I wouldn't mind having access to some basic gestures without having to put another piece of equipment on my desk or have to move my hand away from the mouse.

If you have to hold it while swiping your fingers, then as itlnstln commented, you'll probably develop some nice hand pain.

[lowpoly]

Gestures on top of the mouse make sense. I predict this will replace the wheel.

Next thing will be touchpad keyboards.

In the long run the question will be if the new functions justify loss of haptics. I don't think so.

[msiegel]

In the long run the question will be if the new functions justify loss of haptics. I don't think so.

me too - i need a *lot* of feedback

[timw4mail]

I liked the idea of the scroll ball, but it was more awkward that I had hoped.

When it works, it works. When it clogs up...you have to clean it. And that happens too often.

[ehird]

If this is anything like the MacBook Pro's touchpad, the touchpad itself is a button. So you can click with tactile feedback. Only the gestures will lack feedback.

[hyperlinked]

me too - i need a *lot* of feedback

You're in luck! Third party companies are due to release special mods to provide you with a loving electric "buzz" to give you all the tacticle feedback you want. There's no "click", but you may hear a "snap, crackle," or "pop."

[o2dazone]

Will this have a clicking tactile feedback bottom like the Mighty Mouse? I sure hope you don't have to hover your fingers over the mouse, that'd get pretty tiring.

[Hak Foo]

I don't like gestures-- they tend to come in two forms:


1)  So large as to be identifiable, and then why not just a keystroke?  I'm thinking of the game Black and White.

2)  Refined, but requiring very tight control, and so unsuitable for precision work (if I want the photo resized to 380x116, I don't want to worry about a tiny movement giving me 381x116 instead.

[ehird]

Will this have a clicking tactile feedback bottom like the Mighty Mouse? I sure hope you don't have to hover your fingers over the mouse, that'd get pretty tiring.

It does.

I don't like gestures-- they tend to come in two forms:


1)  So large as to be identifiable, and then why not just a keystroke?  I'm thinking of the game Black and White.

2)  Refined, but requiring very tight control, and so unsuitable for precision work (if I want the photo resized to 380x116, I don't want to worry about a tiny movement giving me 381x116 instead.

I think you're thinking of the wrong type of gesture. The gestures in the MacBook and Magic Mouse touchpads are things like "two fingers up or down to scroll" (on the Magic Mouse, "one finger in any direction to scroll"), "two fingers swiped left or right to go forwards/backwards", "three fingers swiped up to show the desktop"... simple things.

[Hak Foo]

It does.



I think you're thinking of the wrong type of gesture. The gestures in the MacBook and Magic Mouse touchpads are things like "two fingers up or down to scroll" (on the Magic Mouse, "one finger in any direction to scroll"), "two fingers swiped left or right to go forwards/backwards", "three fingers swiped up to show the desktop"... simple things.

I think that could be awkward with a mouse still-- you're trying to keep the mouse stable while executing the gesture.

[ehird]

I agree, but note that the Magic Mouse's selection of gestures is anemic — just the finger-to-scroll thing (which, really, is not very different from using a mouse wheel/ball) and the two-finger swipe (which will indeed be a pain to execute, I think).

I'd have been happier if it was a sleeked-up standalone wireless version of an enlarged MacBook touchpad. But that's probably too unconventional for Apple to risk.

[AndrewZorn]

just another case of form/concept over pure function
for better or for worse

[justin]

People, people... wow.

Ok..

In humanity, form = function in importance. Any Baboon can like something that is ugly. Human beings NEED aesthetics. We're human.

Apple is the one of the most (one of the only) innovative companies in the industry, and yet the most criticized by people with no ingenuity of their own. It's sad, and wrong.

Second, they added functionality. You're complaining. Can you be any more pessimistic?

Third, it is MORE haptic, not less. The touch complements the clickyness, it still clicks, and from what I've heard, louder and with better tactility than other mice.

Yes. It's flatter. Big deal. Some mice have always been made for the "palm grip." Others have always been made for the "claw grip." I for one use the claw grip, and find this design to be perfectly ergonomic. Please stop complaining. No one is forcing you to buy one.

If you love it, great. Get one. If you hate it, no one cares. Don't buy one. End of story.

Oh, and by the way… The Mighty Mouse sucked. I got a Razer DeathAdder. This mouse looks like it won't, so I'm thinking of getting one. If it turns out to suck, I'll go back to the DeathAdder. No harm done.

[hyperlinked]

I don't like gestures-- they tend to come in two forms

As ehird mentioned, I think you've got multi-touch gestures in mind rather than these simple navigation gestures. They've had these simple gestures in MacBooks for several generations now and they've been very useful to me. Just the same as a lot of us have our keyboards maxed out so we have less need to move our hands to another input device, the gestures keep you from having to take your hand off the mouse or spend time repositioning the mouse cursor over a scroll arrow before moving it back to the body of the page to click a button or a link, etc.

If you're panning around a large image to view it at 100% detail on your screen or having to view an oversized Web page on a smaller monitor, these simple gestures make a profound difference.

That said, I do find the new clickable oversized touchpad on the new MacBookPros not totally to my liking, but I don't own one so I have limited practice using that kind of trackpad. I also don't find tactility in a track pad to be really that useful. Feeling my finger hit the pad is enough feedback for me.

I think that could be awkward with a mouse still-- you're trying to keep the mouse stable while executing the gesture.

That's the million dollar question. I'm going to guess that this could be something that generates throngs of people who either love it or hate it with not so many in between. Some people will lack the dexterity to use this confidently and many people won't understand how you use a "claw grip" style mouse.

just another case of form/concept over pure function for better or for worse

Huh? How so?

[ch_123]

In humanity, form = function in importance. Any Baboon can like something that is ugly. Human beings NEED aesthetics. We're human.

Speak for yourself.

Apple is the one of the most (one of the only) innovative companies in the industry, and yet the most criticized by people with no ingenuity of their own. It's sad, and wrong.

Don't confuse innovation with marketing plx.

Second, they added functionality. You're complaining. Can you be any more pessimistic?

Some functionality is more important than others. It appears to me that they have sacrificed features I'd consider important (comfort + tactile feedback) in favor of some gimmicky features that a lot of people will probably never use anyway.

Third, it is MORE haptic, not less. The touch complements the clickyness, it still clicks, and from what I've heard, louder and with better tactility than other mice.

Having used haptic devices for extended periods of time, I don't think it's a better type of tactility, the physical travel is important.

Yes. It's flatter. Big deal. Some mice have always been made for the "palm grip." Others have always been made for the "claw grip." I for one use the claw grip, and find this design to be perfectly ergonomic. Please stop complaining. No one is forcing you to buy one.

If you love it, great. Get one. If you hate it, no one cares. Don't buy one. End of story.

Oh yeah, I forgot that we're not allowed to have opinions about things if they disagree with Steve Jobs...

I think you need to lurk moar. This is a site about input devices where we do reviews and share opinions.

Oh, and by the way… The Mighty Mouse sucked. I got a Razer DeathAdder. This mouse looks like it won't, so I'm thinking of getting one. If it turns out to suck, I'll go back to the DeathAdder. No harm done.

Why do you follow a sentence about "Nobody cares about your opinions if you don't like Mac hardware" with a tangent about how you hated some Mac hardware?

You Mac fanbois really don't have a clue do you?

[timw4mail]

Don't confuse innovation with marketing plx.

Innovation makes things easier to market.  Asthetics make things easier to market.

Apple's got good marketing yes, but there's something to be said for minimalistic design that serves a purpose.

But saying Apple isn't innovative is like saying that IBM never pursued cost-cutting strategies in keyboards. A multitouch mouse may not necessarily seem practical, but that doesn't change the fact that it is innovative.

[ehird]

People, people... wow.

I'm an Apple fan — I like most of their products and think their general philosophy is spot on.

But this post is just gratuitous Apple defence.

In humanity, form = function in importance. Any Baboon can like something that is ugly. Human beings NEED aesthetics. We're human.

False. Function is inherently linked to form, but an ugly, functional object will tend to be more popular than the most beautiful object that does nothing at all. And form is not about prettiness. It's about how you achieve the what (function).

Second, they added functionality. You're complaining. Can you be any more pessimistic?

But at what cost?

Third, it is MORE haptic, not less. The touch complements the clickyness, it still clicks, and from what I've heard, louder and with better tactility than other mice.

Of course the basic clicking function is tactile. But a touchpad interface isn't tactile, so the gestures aren't.

If you love it, great. Get one. If you hate it, no one cares. Don't buy one. End of story.

Funny, you seem to be the only person who doesn't care.

I think the Magic Mouse might just be great, and think some of the criticism is unwarranted, but please keep your head on.

[timw4mail]

Why are half of the quotes used three times?

[ehird]

Crazy copy/paste failure of some sort, I guess. I fixed it right after posting.

[AndrewZorn]

i said for better or for worse.

saying that this mouse offers more/better FUNCTION though is plain wrong.

theres nothing this can do that a newer 7button+ mouse cannot do... except add some new rules and situations it will not work.  i can sloppily left click with my elbow if i want, i can scroll with the mouse upside down, i can do forward/back with the tip of my finger when there is cheeto dust on all the others.

i mean, you have to lift your left button finger to right click.  please.

dont get me wrong, it is very cool and innovative, like most of apple's products... just too bad it isnt AS GOOD as the conventional device.

cant believe the new imac prices.  it might be my first apple product.  27" LED backlit IPS panel, with a computer built into the back, for $1700.  compared to about $1500 for a 30" panel (of similar, but more resolution) i think i might end up getting an imac and using it for like a home server... as it has video-in, it will be a monitor primarily.

in which case, i will have this mouse.

[ehird]

Yes, pretty much all mice have the same function, which is why form is much more important than commonly thought. The lifting thing sucks, but note that in OS X, right clicking is quite uncommon.

I, too, am skeptical of its superiority to a regular mouse. But it definitely has a lot of good points.

Agreed on the iMac prices, btw. I have no idea how they can fit an IPS display and a powerful, near-silent computer into an enclosure with the same footprint as a lot of IPS displays, for such a low price. Crazy.

I'm not sure that it can run and act as a display as the same time, although I don't see why not. (Along with the new iMacs, a $999 Mac mini model sans optical drive with Mac OS X Server was released, but if you're primarily interested in the display that's neither here nor there.)

Amusingly, the base model of the 27-inch iMac is actually $100 cheaper than the 30-inch Apple Cinema Display (which hasn't been updated for years).

[ehird]

How many Legos do you have, exactly?

[Rajagra]

Apple is the one of the most (one of the only) innovative companies in the industry, and yet the most criticized by people with no ingenuity of their own. It's sad, and wrong.

Innovative? Get real. Today's Apple is the Dyson of the computing world. They use other people's ideas and claim them as their own brilliant invention. They make below average spec products and sell them at above average prices. Apple's only real contribution to aesthetics is design that is simplified and plain. And in the case of this mouse they have chosen to use technology that is cheap to manufacture yet easy to market as advanced technology.

I'm not saying it's a bad product, just that Apple are like any other big company. Their first second and third motivations are generating profit. They do what is necessary to persuade people to part with their money. Apple does this by making shiny, disposable products and convincing people they need to constantly upgrade to be cool.

[hyperlinked]

Yes, pretty much all mice have the same function, which is why form is much more important than commonly thought. The lifting thing sucks, but note that in OS X, right clicking is quite uncommon.

Not quite. The right button is used everywhere if you want to use it. Even when Apple was putting out one button mice with no features, there were always contextual menus you could get to by using a standard mouse with a right button or by CMD-Clicking.

I know because the lack of a right button was something that always drove me nuts about Apple's mice so I always replaced it with something that gave me a right button and then some.

[FourOhFour]

Considering Apple's reputation for making unusable pointing devices (puck mouse, anyone?), I'll wait for some actual reviews.

Though, honestly, I don't see replacing my expert mouse any time soon. Hell, I'd rather have one big trackpad than a mouse.

[timw4mail]

Innovative? Get real. Today's Apple is the Dyson of the computing world. They use other people's ideas and claim them as their own brilliant invention. They make below average spec products and sell them at above average prices. Apple's only real contribution to aesthetics is design that is simplified and plain. And in the case of this mouse they have chosen to use technology that is cheap to manufacture yet easy to market as advanced technology.

I'm not saying it's a bad product, just that Apple are like any other big company. Their first second and third motivations are generating profit. They do what is necessary to persuade people to part with their money. Apple does this by making shiny, disposable products and convincing people they need to constantly upgrade to be cool.

I'll agree with you on price, but, in general (with the exception of the ipods, it seems), Apple has a policy of simple, simplistically designed products that do one or a few things well, perhaps at the cost of other features.

Of course if Steve Jobs could just learn to deal with buttons...

Considering Apple's reputation for making unusable pointing devices (puck mouse, anyone?), I'll wait for some actual reviews.

Oh, and I supposed Intel is to be avoided because they had that ONE Pentium Fdiv bug?

[hyperlinked]

Innovative? Get real. Today's Apple is the Dyson of the computing world.

I get the feeling we may need to point out some semantics here or this may get silly. If by innovative, you mean things like putting out experimental devices that are high risk and high reward, then yeah there's little that's innovative about Apple as we know it today. By that definition, there are arguably few major companies that fit the bill.

On the other hand, I think a case can be made for seeing creativity as innovation as well. It's not the same as the white lab coats toiling around in a boiler room kind of innovation, but it's certainly work to advance technology.

Work done well has a tendency to look ridiculously easy and simple. As annoying as the fan club may be, it seems a bit much to completely dismiss a company that has been around for decades, was started in a garage in part by a guy who's been better known for his dance moves lately than his origins, and broke the barriers that doomed online music for years. A lot of their technology platform is overrated, but come on, it's not like they haven't done anything.

[ehird]

Innovative? Get real. Today's Apple is the Dyson of the computing world. They use other people's ideas and claim them as their own brilliant invention. They make below average spec products and sell them at above average prices.

Oh, really?

Firstly, Apple never say "we invented ALL OF THIS technology!" like Dyson. No, they say "we designed and engineered all these great parts to work together perfectly".

Secondly, below average spec products, like the 27-inch iMac with a LED-backlit IPS display at 2560x1440, a 2.8 GHz Core i7, 16 GiB of DDR3 RAM, an ATI Radeon 4850 (this being the only non-high-end component) and a 2 TB disk?

Above average prices? See those specs up there? Find all the components (the IPS for the display is important — it provides much, much better colour reproduction and less distortion at angles; it's basically a requirement for professional photography/design work) and all the other stuff the iMac has too. The iMac costs $3,849 (including the keyboard and mouse). This is an excellent price for that hardware. (If you settled for 8 GiB of RAM, it's either $3,049 or $2,649 depending if you want it in 2 * 4 GiB or 4 * 2 GiB.) Oh, and is yours only 20.7 cm thick, and weighing 13.8 kg? Is it almost silent? Does it have the iMac's industrial design? Then add on the cost of an OS X license...

And they don't innovate? Gee, I guess they didn't pioneer the use of unibody notebook construction after all. I guess the iPod just succeeded because it was plain, as opposed to being thinner, lighter, its battery lasting longer, and more importantly, NOT being an interface only a programmer could love, because a programmer designed it to be able to do everything, even things nobody wants to do.

Seriously, I hate a rabid Apple fanboy as much as the next guy, and have my own qualms with them, but saying they don't innovate is just dishonest for any reasonable definition of "innovate".

[timw4mail]

Apple really does rip you off when it comes to memory, though. Considering how easy it actually is to change the memory in an iMac, that seems really strange to me.

I do agree that the overall price seems reasonable, considering an iMac is basically a laptop as far as parts are concerned (with the exception of the hard disk). I wish I could convince my employer that I need the new iMac... I have one of the iMacs that has a TN panel...yech.

[ehird]

Weird, you hate yourself? I once read a blind MP3 player test. Guess who came out last?

I don't recall mentioning audio quality at all. The vast majority of people can't tell the difference, anyway.

But that was just a side note; the iPod clearly did innovate.

There's a difference between a person who likes most of a company's products and agrees with its philosophy, and a rabid fanboy that doesn't base their opinions on reason.

Or does defending Apple at all make you a fanboy? I just criticised a fanboy on the last page for saying that you shouldn't criticise the mouse and that it was perfect, after all...

Apple really does rip you off when it comes to memory, though. Considering how easy it actually is to change the memory in an iMac, that seems really strange to me.

Agreed; the memory prices are steep. You have to take the fact that it's DDR3 into account, though.

Edit:

I do agree that the overall price seems reasonable, considering an iMac is basically a laptop as far as parts are concerned (with the exception of the hard disk).

By the way, this is false for the Core i7 model I mentioned; the i7 is a high-end desktop processor, through and through.

[FourOhFour]

Oh, and I supposed Intel is to be avoided because they had that ONE Pentium Fdiv bug?

I didn't say avoid. I said wait for reviews. There are some products I'm willing to be an early adopter for, including many of Apple's. An Apple mouse isn't one of them.

[itlnstln]

Wow, and I didn't even intend for this to be a flame-fest.  I have been on fire (no pun intended) lately.  I can't help but to start trouble.

[timw4mail]

This is pretty tame, actually. Be wary of threads about Apple on overclock.net ...

[itlnstln]

This is pretty tame, actually. Be wary of threads about Apple on overclock.net ...

You're right.  I have seen much worse Apple vs. non-Apple battles elsewhere.  Overall, though, we're a much tamer crowd than other places on the Web.  I guess keyboard lovers are a little more mature (for the most part) than folks in other forums.

[ehird]

Abacuses are clearly the most intuitive, innovative computing interface ever invented!

[ch_123]

Oh, and I supposed Intel is to be avoided because they had that ONE Pentium Fdiv bug?

If you think that's the only bad thing Intel ever did, you need to read into their product history a bit more...