Gaming with my MX11800

[siouxscout]

I just noticed an annoying issues with my mech keyboard (mx11800). When using the WASD keys in a game and I press A then W but try to press A again while W is still held, it will no register the W. So it will go A(left) only as if I am not pressing W at all. Make sense?

This common with mechs? I assume its only with my old Compaq mech, is that a correct assumption?

I have only now noticed the issues when playing a game and haven't looked into in much depth yet.

[Astounding]

1kro

[elbowglue]

You have a faulty PS2 to USB adapter.  I'll try to find my own prior post about this same problem.

If you plug it in via PS2 or use a 100% working adapter you won't have this problem.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?9219-PS2-to-USB-adapter-challenge

[siouxscout]

Interesting, I pretty much picked a cheap PS2 just hoping I wont have issues...

Well I can still use it at work and just bring the good one back home for gaming use.

[elbowglue]

Ripster - Do you think you could make your sig a little bigger please?  Sometimes I miss it and accidentally click on the wrong link.

[AndrewZorn]

The Belkin is supposedly the same as Blue Cube inside, right? I just got one used on Ebay for $4 shipped (would have rather had one of the ~7ish NEW, but just want one now) and if it works would vastly prefer it in terms of form factor.

I had to stop using my MX11900 because of the same problem the OP has.

Though with Cherry Red in front of me now, I don't think I'll ever use Black again.

[False_Dmitry_II]

Yeah I had something similar to that problem once. The reason was obvious since I plugged a keyboard I had just had in ps/2 to the adapter and suddenly it didn't work anymore. I watched what it was doing in aquakeytest. It literally sends off signals for all keys as soon as any are let go. I was only testing at the time, so I didn't really actually care and just returned the thingy and waited for a blue cube.

And I'm actually using that blue cube right now, because I'm testing my 2nd cherry clear NKRO board (from the great finds place). Originally I was going to just leave this one in the box because the first one I opened was in pristine condition. I've now opened it and while it was quite dirty (on the surface) it really isn't that bad. Most of the keys aren't shiny, no lint, etc. The shiniest key on the board is the enter key on the numpad. It looks like it got polished on purpose, its nuts.

One question about this while I'm thinking of it. Why does the NKRO ability on this thing seem like it's better than the one on my Das? What I mean is, I can literally slam as many keys on this thing as I want to at once (seems to be a limit of 5 with the blue cube). So let's say that I hit all the arrow keys. It takes it. I can let go one at a time if I want to and let that determine what direction I'm traveling in a game. If I do that on the Das, it just stops and beeps at me. But if I slowly press each key, it will do it. Why is this?

[AndrewZorn]

Why is this?

Because the Das isn't as cool?

[False_Dmitry_II]

As my retail board with a stupid trackpad on it? Hardly likely.

[Tony]

I experienced this too with a PS2-to-USB adapter. Not very often, though.

Then I put the Compaq keyboard to PS/2 and it works.

To sum up, the Compaq MX 11800 keyboard is 2kro only, so it is not suitable for FPS games, where you punch WASD keys heavily.

[elbowglue]

I agree, the Compaq MX11800 is 2kro.  However, I found it to be perfectly suitable to my FPS purposes (left 4 dead2, team fortress, counterstrike, Battlefield bad company 2).  It never blocked what I wanted to do when I was using an appropriate ps2 to usb adapter.

[theferenc]

This recent obsession with NKRO for FPS games baffles me. It's not like it was ever a problem for pro gamers on the quake circuit who used the cheapo samsung keyboards. Seriously, how many keys are necessary simultaneously in an FPS game? I mean that as a real question. Even playing Dragon Age, which seems to have an absurd number of key binds, I have no problems on my Model M, and the control interface is the same as any FPS I've ever played.

Now, the OPs problem, that I get, but that's the adapter messing with the signal. Most adapters pretty well suck, after all.

[AndrewZorn]

For me, it's simply knowing it is possible that bothers me.
Sure, they optimize to avoid conflicts. Usually for typing though, sometimes for WASD type games.

I want my keyboard to be a tool I can trust to do its job, not always wonder if the reason I didn't _______ was because _ and _ can't be pressed simultaneously.

EDIT a perfect example of this is the way ASX has been found as a common combination that does not work. I can't say I need ASX all the time, but that's definitely a reasonable situation in an FPS. It's likely the software developers would avoid combinations like this, even if they didn't know why it wasn't working, but still... I want my keyboard to transmit the letters I press, that's all.

It's also nice supporting products that cost $1-2 more to make that result in better quality overall. Perhaps someday all but the cheapest keyboards will be NKRO.

EDIT I should mention I definitely used to think otherwise. I'm trying to make sure anything I buy now is NKRO, though.

[IvanIvanovich]

I really don't see the use of NKRO either. What situation requires to press every key at the same time? I have never encountered one. 4KRO I can understand for gaming as there are times where I might say want to strafe/forward jump while reloading (WDRSpace). But even this example is not something I'll be doing often. I see it unlikely to need more than 6KRO gaming unless you were not using a mouse for some reason and need to remap mouselook to keyboard.

[theferenc]

Fair enough, I suppose. As I said, with my 2KRO Model M, I've never run into issues playing games like Dragon Age, which use the same general keyboard commands as the average FPS games.

To each their own, I always say. Still, pros often use 2KRO keyboards, so it clearly isn't that necessary, but I can see how it would be desirable or useful.

[N8N]

I don't game, but I have found that the Ziotek adapter that clickykeyboards used to sell works where others won't.  Haven't had problems w/ 1KRO but have had issues w/ keyboards just not working w/ cheap adapters.  Have not tried the "blue cube" referenced above.

[Chobopants]

6KRO is just fine. Considering you only have 5 fingers per hand (usually) and I don't think too many people "heel-toe" their keys with multiple fingers that should be just plenty.

Have to say I like saying that I have it on all of my boards for some reason. Just a stupid geek bragging point, though, not functional.

[AndrewZorn]

6KRO as a USB limitation is no problem for me, and is in fact what I meant when I said NKRO. All my boards are ultimately USB. 6KRO boards are usually 'NKRO' in that they use the diodes, so the NKRO soul is there, I do not mind the USB limitation at all.

After all, pretty much all games where keyboards matter are played with keyboard and mouse, so 6KRO exceeds the five fingers (by a large margin, considering modifiers). Music games and two players on one keyboard remain the exception, but I can't remember the last time those were important to me.

Though my incoming Choc Mini with USB NKRO will be neato.

[Surly73]

The way I see it, the KRO rating is the minimum amount of simultaneous keys that will be registered from all possible combinations.  This is why 2KRO might seem "fine" to some - it depends on how they are mapped.  My Logitech illuminated was 2KRO but you couldn't W+SHIFT+SPACE (run and jump) with it.  It was completely unacceptable.  Other "2KRO" keyboards allow W+SHIFT+SPACE because the "2" is the absolute minimum and sometimes more will translate depending on which keys.  W+SHIFT+SPACE is obviously 3 and works fine on many "2KRO" boards.  I got rid of the Logi because of this.

[theferenc]

That is the correct interpretation. For reference, my Model M 1397000 handles that particular combination, as well as W+A+SHIFT+CONTROL+SPACE, so you can strafe forward and left, in a crouch, at a run, jumping, all at the same time (I think I have those keys right -- correct me otherwise). Replace A with D, and it still works, for whatever that's worth.

[Astounding]

That is the correct interpretation. For reference, my Model M 1397000 handles that particular combination, as well as W+A+SHIFT+CONTROL+SPACE, so you can strafe forward and left, in a crouch, at a run, jumping, all at the same time (I think I have those keys right -- correct me otherwise). Replace A with D, and it still works, for whatever that's worth.

 
So it's confirmed, 6kro and nkro are really just marketing buzzword scams?

[theferenc]

So it's confirmed, 6kro and nkro are really just marketing buzzword scams?

No no, that isn't what I was saying. I was simply affirming that many combinations beyond 2 work with a 2KRO keyboard. A 2KRO only guarantees that all combinations of 2 keys works. That doesn't mean larger combinations don't work, just that they aren't guaranteed.

I find it ridiculous that not all key combinations work on any keyboard, but these were decisions made when I was a baby, if not before I was born. There are solutions to the problem that work, to one extent or another, on most platforms. And if you feel the need for it, then by all means, you should buy a keyboard that has it.

But if pro gamers don't need it, I wouldn't call it a necessity. A nice to have, for certain. But I don't have a problem with people wanting it. But rejecting a keyboard out of hand that "only" has 2KRO, even when combinations as I posted works with no troubles, I think is silly. A better approach, from a rational perspective, is to ask "Does keyboard X support key combination Y that I want to be able to use in game Z?" rather than just assume it does not.

A lot of keyboards that would otherwise be great for a given person are just ignored because of this incorrect assumption. Even Razer doesn't bother with it on their keyboards, which are SPECIFICALLY marketed at gamers. That's telling, to my mind.

[N8N]

To be fair, most of the better old school keyboards (IBM Model M for instance) were aimed at office use where 2KRO was more than sufficient.  However, gaming is likely driving the trend toward 6KRO/NKRO.  Just like everything else, really...  porn and gaming drive innovation.  (you think I'm kidding, but the online porn industry really kick-started e-commerce.)

Now I don't game but if I were buying a new high-end keyboard (and I probably will soon) I'd insist on at least 6KRO just to future-proof myself.

[False_Dmitry_II]

Then save yourself that hassle and only buy older boards.

[N8N]

If that was aimed at me, that's probably good advice...  I've been using one M or another as my daily driver (at home) for a while now ever since I got PO'd at the POS keyboard that I'd been using and had a flash of inspiration (as in, "hey, if this keyboard sucks so much more than the ones I remember from back in the day, why don't I just get one from back in the day?")  At my last job I also used some old Dell keyboard that looked like an M - but I hadn't really got into KB geekery back then so I don't remember if it was an AT101 or QuietKey.  I just remember getting a new PC (several times) and trying the new keyboard for a day or two and then dragging my old one out from the junk drawer in disgust.

I will probably end up buying a new keyboard for work soon though as I'm now forced to be in a rather small cube farm for my office work (fortunately not all day every day) and apparently my Model M was too loud  I am trying out some vintage options; I have high hopes for the cherry clears and/or alps black or damped, but am still waiting for the UPS gods to smile upon me.  If it turns out that I end up with a distinct preference, though, I think that I might just go ahead and pop for a shiny new keyboard just for the swank factor.

[Surly73]

So it's confirmed, 6kro and nkro are really just marketing buzzword scams?

Not so much.  It GUARANTEES that AT LEAST 6 keys (for 6KRO) will all be registered no matter which 6 they are.  If it was a "scam" then I wouldn't have had to sell my Logitech Illuminated because I couldn't jump while running.  NKRO isn't necessary, but 6KRO is wise IMO.  No matter how big of an idiot designed the key matrix, you'll always register at least 6 simultaneous keys.  The guy who set up the Logi Illuminated was an idiot, apparently, since other 2KRO boards are still useful for gaming.

[The Solutor]

The guy who set up the Logi Illuminated was an idiot

Afaik  only some batches (newer ones ?) are affected, not a poor design, but an excess of build production cost's optimizations.

[siouxscout]

Back to the large Igear KVM it suppored the nkey rollover just fine. The other is still usable for work, no need for that ability at the work place that I can see.

Back to gaming happy on my mech.

[JustCallMeCrash]

Not to bump the topic, but I'm eyeballing these MX 11800s for office use (my Das with blues is a touch on the noisy side for this office)... at any rate, I'll be using this strictly for typing and was hoping not to have any problems.  I'm about a 90wpm typist, so, will I run into any problems with daily use?
MX 11800

Should I consider one of these or just hang it up and get a different board?

[JustCallMeCrash]

To be fair, most of the better old school keyboards (IBM Model M for instance) were aimed at office use where 2KRO was more than sufficient.  However, gaming is likely driving the trend toward 6KRO/NKRO.  Just like everything else, really...  porn and gaming drive innovation.  (you think I'm kidding, but the online porn industry really kick-started e-commerce.)

Now I don't game but if I were buying a new high-end keyboard (and I probably will soon) I'd insist on at least 6KRO just to future-proof myself.

They are also why VHS won over BetaMax and DVD became popular instead of LaserDisc.  
Edit: the porn industry, to be clear.

[N8N]

Not to bump the topic, but I'm eyeballing these MX 11800s for office use (my Das with blues is a touch on the noisy side for this office)... at any rate, I'll be using this strictly for typing and was hoping not to have any problems.  I'm about a 90wpm typist, so, will I run into any problems with daily use?
MX 11800

Should I consider one of these or just hang it up and get a different board?

IMHO if you have not typed on Cherry browns it is worth it to try them out.  I'm pretty much in the same situation as you, as I am looking for a board for daily office use.  I just took my 11800 into the office today for the first time and while it was a good experiment, I don't think I can use it long term - several reasons.  First, it is very thin - so it sits lower WRT my wrist rest than other keyboards.  (may not be a consideration for you.)  Second, the non-standard position of the keys outside the main alphanumeric portion of the keyboard really messes me up - I have to search for the Delete key for instance.  In my mind it's a good board to try out browns and to keep as a spare board but I don't consider it to be a good primary board.  Others may of course disagree.

My own personal recommendation, which is worth exactly what you paid for it - get one to try the browns before spending the money on a Filco, Das, whatever - but don't pay a lot for it.

[siouxscout]

Ive been using mine for office use and home use, no issues. Type roughly 70wpm. I always bottom the keys out, so I'm not sure if the sound is a huge diffrence or not.

[elbowglue]

I use my Mx11800 (hacksaw modded) every day at work maybe 30 hours per week (for about a year now)  It is still my favorite keyboard by far after having use multiple filcos, topres, cherries, dell at101's, chicony 5181, etc etc.  The only keyboard which is comparable to it in my opinion is the Ricercar SPOS, which also feels *great* but has a wonky layout.  Any my hacksaw modded mx11800 is a little skinnier (smaller width)

Yeah.  The layout of the Mx11800 is really not good. (crazy location of delete, etc)  but i can live with it for my purposes.

[JustCallMeCrash]

I use my Mx11800 (hacksaw modded) every day at work maybe 30 hours per week (for about a year now)  It is still my favorite keyboard by far after having use multiple filcos, topres, cherries, dell at101's, chicony 5181, etc etc.  The only keyboard which is comparable to it in my opinion is the Ricercar SPOS, which also feels *great* but has a wonky layout.  Any my hacksaw modded mx11800 is a little skinnier (smaller width)

Yeah.  The layout of the Mx11800 is really not good. (crazy location of delete, etc)  but i can live with it for my purposes.

Holy crap, did you chop that bugger down like that?  I'm assuming that's the 11800 in your avatar.

[TexasFlood]

Holy crap, did you chop that bugger down like that?  I'm assuming that's the 11800 in your avatar.

If you click on the Compaq "MX 84u" link in elbowglues sig, you can see the sawing in full gory detail.

[JustCallMeCrash]

Nice, TexasFlood... thanks for that.  I'll mod the heck out of a case in a heartbeat, but I'm terrible with a soldering iron, so I think I'll have to skip this one.

[spitfire6000]

perhaps using the ps2 connection instead of usb will fix the problem?

[False_Dmitry_II]

Nice, TexasFlood... thanks for that.  I'll mod the heck out of a case in a heartbeat, but I'm terrible with a soldering iron, so I think I'll have to skip this one.

 
There is a place you can cut on the board that requires no soldering. It should be in the thread somewhere.

[JustCallMeCrash]

There is a place you can cut on the board that requires no soldering. It should be in the thread somewhere.

Meh, I'll just leave it alone.  I like the trackball, though I'm more used to a Logitech Trackman Wheel.  Hmmm... a scrollwheel mod would be pretty rad.

I'll probably paint mine pretty soon... I've had good luck using Testor model paint and then hand waxing with carnauba (however that's spelled) wax (aka TurtleWax).  I found the waxjob definitely reduces stickiness from the paint.  My first (and only, so far) kb mod was to blackout an old original MS Natual, being as I type strictly Dvorak, and they keycaps are crazy shapes, it was far easier to pull it apart and paint over everything.

Before anybody asks, no, the wax doesn't make it go faster, but it does make it feel really smooth. ;-)

[elbowglue]

Thanks for the link guys, I was busy with work and all..
Yeah you can cut the KB here:
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:9542&viewfull=1&page=8&do=comments#post196834
and no soldering is required.

Of course if you crack the PCB like I did then you will need to solder it to repair