Cherry MX Trampoline Mod!

[Larken]

Pictures and a video while doing the trampoline mod (bottom half only):

1. Before starting the mod - I had to take apart my ergodox to desolder 2 leds from their switches as I didn't do the switch top mods when I first built it. This is after the point when I tried the mod on my thumb buttons and decided I like it enough to do it to the whole board.



2. Getting similar cut sizes from the table mat using a belt puncher



3. Another shot



4. Putting the cut piece into the hole, then pushing it in all the way. It's good to have a torch on hand to check if you already have one in the switch (and don't use black pieces), as you don't really want more than one piece in each switch to maintain consistency.



Rinse and repeat until all the switches are done.

5. One last shot before I put the caps back on.




Finally, the video:

modded one side of the ergodox for comparison - the right hand is fully modded, while only the 2x thumb keys on the left is modded. Note that I am pretty much hammering the buttons, so it is really much louder than it really is when in use.

I didn't want to reduce the travel too much, so I used as little stuffing as I could. There is still some notable difference in travel distance, but as long as I'm not really slamming the keys, the noise from bottoming out is minimal/not noticeable as I don't really bottom out hard while I type.

In fact, the switch resetting itself is louder as I haven't done anything like the latex mod to the tops. I do plan to do it eventually (Oobly's fully modded switch sounds really good), but haven't figured out how to get the latex milk or something similar.

[swill]

I was thinking that cutting o-rings up would be rather hard to keep consistent without alot of work, and decided to do a variation of this mod using a 2mm thick pvc antislip mat, punching out beads with a belt hole puncher (this compresses the mat by quite a bit due to the punching, so I wasn't sure how it would work out).

Happy to report that the result was a very very slight reduction in bottom out distance (probably about 0.2mm) - and a total dampening of the bottom out sound (video will follow later). This feels very different from the using o-rings under keycaps - which I'd tried and really disliked.

Still have to figure out how to do latex mod or a quasi replacement without access to latex milk though - have to say it would make quite a difference wrt to keys larger than 1x as the pop up sound is alot more obvious for larger keys.

Yes, this was the idea that I posted earlier.  This is what I wanted to try...

[korrelate]

Larken: thanks for the demo. Your results sound amazing. Better sounding, I think, than any Topre I have heard so far. This is really starting to get some serious traction on my to-do list.

[Larken]

Yes, this was the idea that I posted earlier.  This is what I wanted to try...

Yeah, I don't know how I missed your post, would have saved me some time thinking how to go about it.. I was going to go with a standard puncher when I realised that the pieces would be too big, and I remembered my dad had a old leather punch somewhere else. Not sure if its just me, but it was hard to get a clean cut off those pieces with the leather punch I had. My hands are still sore from doing the mod yesterday.

Larken: thanks for the demo. Your results sound amazing. Better sounding, I think, than any Topre I have heard so far. This is really starting to get some serious traction on my to-do list.

The mic actually amplifies low frequencies by quite a bit. In practical use to my ears, there is hardly any bottom out noise for the 1x keys, and retaining some noise for the 2x and 1.5 keys, while the ones in the video still has a low pitched bottom out clack.

Keep in mind that the sound characteristic for this particular board is affected by the acrylic case, the padding inside (I lined it with drawer liner under the pcb), and most of all, the dsa caps, which has a rather different sound characteristic compared to using dcs caps. I actually quite enjoyed the bottom out sound on this board due to all those factors, but figured I'd try something new.  You can see another full video of me typing on the same ergodox without the mod (just stickered and lubed) in the same channel.

Next up, getting some latex milk.

[Pacifist]

Pictures and a video while doing the trampoline mod (bottom half only):

1. Before starting the mod - I had to take apart my ergodox to desolder 2 leds from their switches as I didn't do the switch top mods when I first built it. This is after the point when I tried the mod on my thumb buttons and decided I like it enough to do it to the whole board.

Show Image

2. Getting similar cut sizes from the table mat using a belt puncher

Show Image

3. Another shot

Show Image

4. Putting the cut piece into the hole, then pushing it in all the way. It's good to have a torch on hand to check if you already have one in the switch (and don't use black pieces), as you don't really want more than one piece in each switch to maintain consistency.

Show Image

Rinse and repeat until all the switches are done.

5. One last shot before I put the caps back on.

Show Image

Finally, the video:

modded one side of the ergodox for comparison - the right hand is fully modded, while only the 2x thumb keys on the left is modded. Note that I am pretty much hammering the buttons, so it is really much louder than it really is when in use.

I didn't want to reduce the travel too much, so I used as little stuffing as I could. There is still some notable difference in travel distance, but as long as I'm not really slamming the keys, the noise from bottoming out is minimal/not noticeable as I don't really bottom out hard while I type.

In fact, the switch resetting itself is louder as I haven't done anything like the latex mod to the tops. I do plan to do it eventually (Oobly's fully modded switch sounds really good), but haven't figured out how to get the latex milk or something similar.

How many switches can 1 OZ of latex cover?

And Larken can you cut a bunch more for other people to use?

[Oobly]

Nice work, Larken! I like how your 'Dox looks! The wood works really well with the retro caps.

1 oz of liquid latex will do a LOT of switches (quite a few whole boards worth). You really only need a tiny amount per switch.

I found when using a hole punch to cut pieces from an anti-slip mat that it works best if you rotate the punch at the end of the press, so it cuts the bottom edge nicely. I ended up using oring pieces instead of the mat because I thought it felt better, it gave a slightly softer landing which I liked.

[Larken]

And Larken can you cut a bunch more for other people to use?

The cutting, while easy, is rather minding numbing and rather taxing on my hands to do, even for the 76 switches for the ergodox. I highly doubt I'll be able to hand cut full sets for others to use; might be better to see if there's some automated way to do it using a machine instead.

Nice work, Larken! I like how your 'Dox looks! The wood works really well with the retro caps.

Thanks Oobly! I really like how your angled thumb cluster worked out. Wish I could do that with the dox.

I found when using a hole punch to cut pieces from an anti-slip mat that it works best if you rotate the punch at the end of the press, so it cuts the bottom edge nicely. I ended up using oring pieces instead of the mat because I thought it felt better, it gave a slightly softer landing which I liked.

I realised that the pvc mat beads will undergo further compression after using the keyboard, which causes the feel to change after a few days, something I think the o-ring pieces wouldn't suffer from. While still silent in usage, the travel reduction distance is not as large as it was when I first finished the mod, which could be good and bad, depending on perspective. I personally like it, as I was getting tripped out by the earlier bottom out for some time.

One thing it does is that if the key feel wasn't consistent in the first place, the compressible pvc beads eventually seasons out to consistency after a while.

O-ring pieces would be more silent, and definitely more - to paraphrase - 'What you feel initially is what you get'; meaning the feel doesn't change as much in use. But I would guess that it is a little harder to get a consistent result in all modded switches with rubber (I was searching for 1mm rubber balls, but it appears that such things are mostly only made by suppliers for industrial/medical applications, and doesn't sell to the general public.

[dustinhxc]

Pictures and a video while doing the trampoline mod (bottom half only):

1. Before starting the mod - I had to take apart my ergodox to desolder 2 leds from their switches as I didn't do the switch top mods when I first built it. This is after the point when I tried the mod on my thumb buttons and decided I like it enough to do it to the whole board.

Show Image

2. Getting similar cut sizes from the table mat using a belt puncher

Show Image

3. Another shot

Show Image

4. Putting the cut piece into the hole, then pushing it in all the way. It's good to have a torch on hand to check if you already have one in the switch (and don't use black pieces), as you don't really want more than one piece in each switch to maintain consistency.

Show Image

Rinse and repeat until all the switches are done.

5. One last shot before I put the caps back on.

Show Image

Finally, the video:

modded one side of the ergodox for comparison - the right hand is fully modded, while only the 2x thumb keys on the left is modded. Note that I am pretty much hammering the buttons, so it is really much louder than it really is when in use.

I didn't want to reduce the travel too much, so I used as little stuffing as I could. There is still some notable difference in travel distance, but as long as I'm not really slamming the keys, the noise from bottoming out is minimal/not noticeable as I don't really bottom out hard while I type.

In fact, the switch resetting itself is louder as I haven't done anything like the latex mod to the tops. I do plan to do it eventually (Oobly's fully modded switch sounds really good), but haven't figured out how to get the latex milk or something similar.

That sounds great!

[taylordcraig]

http://www.theppb.co.uk/technical.htm

Looks viable for rubber balls. I'm very interested in this mod. I'm typing on whites right now and I like how they feel compared to browns. I still need to try clear and green. I also haven't tried orings yet.

Thinking some balls might make my browns feel better as I type too hard for them and bottom out all the time.

[jeffgran]

Just wanted to share my experience with this mod:

I tried on 3 or 4 keys using little pieces of o-ring like Oobly did. It feels nice and springy. But, when I put a thick blue o-ring on a different key, I can't really tell the two keys apart. So I don't think it feels any different than the o-ring does.

However, when I had my DSA keycaps on these same switches, there was a big difference. Because of the different depth of the underside of the keycap, the o-ring did much less to dampen and soften the landing than the trampoline did. So I would say the main value of this mod is that the resulting feel is keycap independent. The soft springy landing will be the same no matter which keycaps you put on. It also means that if/when you change keycaps, you don't have to transfer the o-ring from the old keycap to the new one. It is much more effort up front though, since you have to take apart the switch to do it.

[Pacifist]

Just wanted to share my experience with this mod:

I tried on 3 or 4 keys using little pieces of o-ring like Oobly did. It feels nice and springy. But, when I put a thick blue o-ring on a different key, I can't really tell the two keys apart. So I don't think it feels any different than the o-ring does.

However, when I had my DSA keycaps on these same switches, there was a big difference. Because of the different depth of the underside of the keycap, the o-ring did much less to dampen and soften the landing than the trampoline did. So I would say the main value of this mod is that the resulting feel is keycap independent. The soft springy landing will be the same no matter which keycaps you put on. It also means that if/when you change keycaps, you don't have to transfer the o-ring from the old keycap to the new one. It is much more effort up front though, since you have to take apart the switch to do it.

But when you open it up, you might as well lube the switch and sticker it 

[taylordcraig]

http://www.theppb.co.uk/technical.htm

Looks viable for rubber balls. I'm very interested in this mod. I'm typing on whites right now and I like how they feel compared to browns. I still need to try clear and green. I also haven't tried orings yet.

Thinking some balls might make my browns feel better as I type too hard for them and bottom out all the time.

Contacted them. Here is what I heard back.

Cellulose Acetate balls have a hardness
of around 73 Rockwell R.
We have some samples if you need to "feel" them!

1.5mm Cellulose Acetate x 250 @ £16.00/100, ex works
2mm Cellulose Acetate x 250 @ £17.00/100, ex works

The only rubber we stock in tiny sizes is Nitrile (70A) in 3/32" (2.38mm)

3/32" Nitrile x 250 @ £38.00/100, ex works

kind regards
Jan Garth
THE PRECISION PLASTIC BALL CO LTD

[Larken]

Just wanted to share my experience with this mod:

I tried on 3 or 4 keys using little pieces of o-ring like Oobly did. It feels nice and springy. But, when I put a thick blue o-ring on a different key, I can't really tell the two keys apart. So I don't think it feels any different than the o-ring does.

However, when I had my DSA keycaps on these same switches, there was a big difference. Because of the different depth of the underside of the keycap, the o-ring did much less to dampen and soften the landing than the trampoline did. So I would say the main value of this mod is that the resulting feel is keycap independent. The soft springy landing will be the same no matter which keycaps you put on. It also means that if/when you change keycaps, you don't have to transfer the o-ring from the old keycap to the new one. It is much more effort up front though, since you have to take apart the switch to do it.

I had the same experience when I used rubber pieces in the mod too - that it felt no different from using o-rings under keycaps.  I didn't really like it; the key feel was changed too much for my tastes, and a little too mushy.

I wanted silencing of the bottom out with minimal change in feel of the key, which was why I went with punched beads from a pvc mat. As the material is pretty much sponge, once compressed, it only reverts to a certain extent, which had the desired effect I wanted from the mod. The filling up of the empty space inside the stem, and a week of typing have 'seasoned' the beads enough that I think the reduction of the travel is probably between 0.2mm to 0.5mm at max (it's really hard to tell at this point) - while retaining the silent bottom out for the 1x keys. In other words, it got closer to the original key feel without the mod, while remaining the most of the muting effect.

But it is not without failure though - the 2x keys have become much louder than it was when I first completed the mod; while still quieter when compared to unmodded switches, it definitely can't be described as totally silent in use.

http://www.theppb.co.uk/technical.htm

Looks viable for rubber balls. I'm very interested in this mod. I'm typing on whites right now and I like how they feel compared to browns. I still need to try clear and green. I also haven't tried orings yet.

Thinking some balls might make my browns feel better as I type too hard for them and bottom out all the time.

Contacted them. Here is what I heard back.

Cellulose Acetate balls have a hardness
of around 73 Rockwell R.
We have some samples if you need to "feel" them!

1.5mm Cellulose Acetate x 250 @ £16.00/100, ex works
2mm Cellulose Acetate x 250 @ £17.00/100, ex works

The only rubber we stock in tiny sizes is Nitrile (70A) in 3/32" (2.38mm)

3/32" Nitrile x 250 @ £38.00/100, ex works

kind regards
Jan Garth
THE PRECISION PLASTIC BALL CO LTD

Out of those options, it is likely that the 1.5mm is the only one that could fit into the stem hole, though I wonder how hard is 73 rockwell r.

[korrelate]

So I'm pretty sure that Precision Plastics was using two different hardness scales but they only declared the one: Rockwell (and gave a value of 73R as the hardness of the Cellulose Acetate). The other scale (I think... totally not sure but it's a somewhat informed guess) is the Durometer and they used it to describe the hardness of the Nitrile rubber balls (as 70A).

Now check this out: the Cherry O-ring silencers that WASDKeyboards sells? They come in two flavors: Red and Blue both have a hardness rating of 40A (and I believe that this is on the durometer scale as well because these O-rings are also a type of rubber: EPDM vs Nitrile above).

WASD keyboards used to carry another flavor: black, and they were much harder (70A if I remember). But I digress... I mentioned the above because these silencer rings are pretty common and if you have them you have a perfect example of what 40A feels like. If you have an old sampler pack that includes the Black Rings then you know what 70A feels like.

But the question is, what do those cellulose acetate balls (73R) feel like? Based on a quick visual inspection of the diagram at the bottom of the link below... I'm thinking that they would be (if it even makes sense because I don't know what the range is of the durometer "function") around 105-100A.

http://www.calce.umd.edu/TSFA/Hardness_ad_.htm
Note this is the only link I found that converted Durometer A to Rockwell R: most of them only go from Durometer D to Rockwell R. YMMV.

I had a hard time getting my head around an example of what 73R feels like until I noticed that 73R is the hardness of polypropylene and we all know what that feels like: that's what the lid of a pack of Tic-Tacs is made out of (I didn't know that until I looked up PP). Not super hard but not incredibly pliable either. And the concern I have about this material is this: if you drop it in the barrel of the switch will it snug itself into the bottom, snugly so that it doesn't pop out? Sounds like an interesting theory to test though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polypropylene


Here's another idea: use that belt-hole punch on one of those nitrile balls... If you use too small a ball in the punch maybe the punch would just push the ball right through... maybe you need to go with a bigger ball and then just slice them up.

One thing I noticed with the blue, red and black O-rings when I tried them on my board: they all made my board feel too sluggish (even the 70A black ones). It's tempting to think that 105A is too hard... but sometimes I think that might be just about perfect. In any event, I wouldn't be too eager to dismiss any material with a hardness <= 110A until its "feel" was tested. And I think the only way that hardnesses around 110A are going to work properly is when they get punched to precisely the right diameter (so that they really seat themselves in there).


Cheers,

I never would have thought that this thread be running as long as it has. Sorry I don't have the time to contribute anything more material to the conversation but I hope this helps!

-K

[jeffgran]

I ordered these (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00137WRFU) to see if they'd fit in there. 3/32 inches seems to be the smallest common size for these little rubber balls, which is about 2.3mm. I forget who but someone measured the little hole at 2mm, but since it's pliable rubber I bet you can just cram it in there. And I believe someone else measured that there's about 0.8mm of empty space at the bottom of an unmodified switch, so that means this would reduce the travel by about 1.5mm -- 0.5mm after the activation point on most switches. Not sure that will be a good thing but hey, it's for keyboard science.

[taylordcraig]

I might pick up 250 of 1.5mm acetate balls. Waiting on my next pay cheque for my purchase dust to settle.

[Pacifist]

How are these so expensive? They're 12 cents more than the switch...

[Oobly]

I have managed to stuff a 2.5mm piece of rubber into the tube. It felt a bit too hard for my liking. I like the softer feel of an oring piece or smaller rubber piece.

I'm not convinced the balls are a good option unless we find one that's just the perfect size and material (and affordable). Can't really adjust much.

The advantages of this mod are:

1. Keycap independent. Can use any caps you like and never have to fiddle with orings again.

2. Can customise the feeling by changing material, thickness and length of the inserted piece. Can even just shorten the key movement by using hard plastic.

I have been given some 2mm thick rubber mats which I am testing for this mod (They seem to be different hardnesses of some type of silicon). I use a 2mm leather hole punch to make little "beads". The punch doesn't make perfect cylinders, but rather something like an hourglass shape. They feel very similar to the oring pieces so far and are very consistent. I will take some time on the weekend to try the different mats.

Comparing to videos on the interwebs, my board sounds a lot like a silenced Topre now. Can't say about the feel until I try a Topre side by side.

I have put POM caps on some of the keys and I prefer it to the PBT. Gives a deeper tone. Really quality feeling.

[SpAmRaY]

Interesting experiments! Keep up the good work.

[Stevenator21]

Will the latex ever wear out or will the feeling be consistant over a long period of time?
Awesome mod by the way!

[Oobly]

Will the latex ever wear out or will the feeling be consistant over a long period of time?
Awesome mod by the way!

I honestly don't know. It's still going strong after a month and a half, though, and still feels the same to me. I was worried about the latex peeling away from the top casing, but it hasn't happened with my switches so far.

Thank you!

[Pacifist]

how much of it do I need for 30 switches?

[riotonthebay]

how much of it do I need for 30 switches?

Multiply the amount in this image by thirty:



If it comes out to anything other than "the smallest amount I can buy," you're probably doing the math wrong .

[Pacifist]

got any measurements?

[riotonthebay]

got any measurements?

I'm very confused. How are you planning to get the stuff? Does this level of precision actually matter?

[Pacifist]

Don't want to overbuy, just want a small bottle. And if this takes a lot (like layering) then i don't want to buy too little

[riotonthebay]

Don't want to overbuy, just want a small bottle. And if this takes a lot (like layering) then i don't want to buy too little

The two small white dollops seen in the picture are all you need for each switch. Switches aren't big to begin with, and the surface area you're covering per switch is incredibly small. I'd say that you're fine unless you're buying it in a thimble, but even thimble's worth would be way too much.

[Oobly]

As riotonthebay says, you really don't need much. I put just a drop each side and let it dry, no extra layers. I think 5ml would do a whole keyboard and have some left over. I used a toothpick for applying it.

[Oobly]

Just thought of a new take on this mod inspired by redskull's project to increase the weight of 45g Topres by using stronger springs.

If we use miniature springs in the hole under the stem, we can have dual rate MX switches. Softer until activation, then harder. The uncompressed length needs to be roughly 2.8mm for non-clicky switches, and compressed (solid) length of around 0.8mm. Outer diameter about 2mm. I have found some little springs which may work, but they're too expensive ($1.58 each when buying 100-199).

I may just try it with a homemade spring to see.

I am happy with my board already, but I like experimenting, so I'll try with a couple individual switches and maybe someone else can benefit if they like how it feels.

It could help prevent bottoming out while retaining the normal switch feel until activation. Maybe more like a trampoline than the rubber piece

[swill]

Just thought of a new take on this mod inspired by redskull's project to increase the weight of 45g Topres by using stronger springs.

If we use miniature springs in the hole under the stem, we can have dual rate MX switches. Softer until activation, then harder. The uncompressed length needs to be roughly 2.8mm for non-clicky switches, and compressed (solid) length of around 0.8mm. Outer diameter about 2mm. I have found some little springs which may work, but they're too expensive ($1.58 each when buying 100-199).

I may just try it with a homemade spring to see.

I am happy with my board already, but I like experimenting, so I'll try with a couple individual switches and maybe someone else can benefit if they like how it feels.

It could help prevent bottoming out while retaining the normal switch feel until activation. Maybe more like a trampoline than the rubber piece

ya, an interesting approach.  The main problem you may face is if the spring is too big, it will jam up the stem and not move at all because of the taper at the bottom of the stem (causing a wedge effect).  If the spring is too small it will likely turn and not act as a spring anymore.  getting the exact size spring that is big enough to not change orientation, but small enough to not block the stem from moving will be a bit tricky, but if it works, its a great idea. 

[tlem]

What if you use the latex milk to dampen the downward strike?  I guess you would apply it to the bottom of the stem's sliders.

[riotonthebay]

What if you use the latex milk to dampen the downward strike?  I guess you would apply it to the bottom of the stem's sliders.

The switch stops when the stem's shaft hits the bottom. What you're suggesting is what the trampoline mod accomplishes; I don't think latex milk would hold up over time.

[piglickjf]

What if you use the latex milk to dampen the downward strike?  I guess you would apply it to the bottom of the stem's sliders.

The switch stops when the stem's shaft hits the bottom. What you're suggesting is what the trampoline mod accomplishes; I don't think latex milk would hold up over time.

I thought it was shown on that (Korean?) website and discussed further here that the shaft doesn't bottom out?

I would think rather than applying it to the bottom of the stem's sliders, however, that it would be better to apply it to the switch base, at the bottom of the sliders. It just seems like over time, the latex could dislodge itself and fall off if it's applied to the bottom of a surface (ie the latex is "hanging"), whereas if it's applied to the top it's more likely to stay in place (no gravity constantly trying to pull it off).

[Oobly]

"Clicky" switch sliders hit the bottom of the tube, but with non-clicky switches (Browns, Clears, Reds, Blacks, etc) the side pieces of the slider hit the bottom case and the rod stops about 0.8mm from the bottom of the tube.

If you latex mod the bottom of the slider or top surface of the bottom of the case it will feel different to using a rubber piece in the tube (due to the difference in surface area and the 0.8mm gap in the tube). It will only damp the force a little bit unless you put a few layers on. Rubber piece in the tube will generally be softer and can be more consistent I would think (cutting same length pieces vs trying to get the same thickness layer of latex).

Matias has approached the problem in an interesting way. They use a little piece of rubber that fits on the slider and protrudes both above and below it, so the rubber piece hits when bottoming out AND releasing the switch.

Thinking about the springs version of the mod, it wouldn't dampen as nicely as rubber does, but would help to learn not to bottom out by progressively increasing the force after actuation. May suit some more. And yes, it's hard to make a spring the right size that maintains its position and orientation.

[jacobolus]

Matias has approached the problem in an interesting way. They use a little piece of rubber that fits on the slider and protrudes both above and below it, so the rubber piece hits when bottoming out AND releasing the switch.

Note: Alps dampened cream/white switches also did this. E.g. the Apple Extended Keyboard II have such dampened switches. They have the same little rubber piece in the slider that hit the plastic at the bottom/top of the switch housing, eliminating much of the noise, that the new Matias switches have.

[Oobly]

Thanks for the info on the Alps switches. Interesting.

Something important to the feel of this mod is the width of the piece you insert into the hole. If it is compressed until it fills the space, it'll stop dead at that point unless the material you use has some air spaces (foam). The hourglass shape and curved oring pieces leave a decent amount of "squish" area and both seem to work well (to my taste). A full 2mm diameter disc with vertical walls will feel quite different and won't compress much at all irrespective of the material (assuming a "solid" material like silicone, not foam), but would still provide some damping effect.

Neoprene rubber foam may provide a whole different feeling again, by being able to compress more, it may be more progressive.

There really are a lot of options with this for fine tuning the feel.

Sorbothane or some other really soft gel-like substance would probably do a better job than the latex mod on the switch tops, but I don't really know how we'd attach it.

Not sure I'll find time to play more with these options, but I thought I'd mention them in case there are some other adventurous souls out there who want to try.

[lwls]

Thanks for the info on the Alps switches. Interesting.

Something important to the feel of this mod is the width of the piece you insert into the hole. If it is compressed until it fills the space, it'll stop dead at that point unless the material you use has some air spaces (foam). The hourglass shape and curved oring pieces leave a decent amount of "squish" area and both seem to work well (to my taste). A full 2mm diameter disc with vertical walls will feel quite different and won't compress much at all irrespective of the material (assuming a "solid" material like silicone, not foam), but would still provide some damping effect.

Neoprene rubber foam may provide a whole different feeling again, by being able to compress more, it may be more progressive.

There really are a lot of options with this for fine tuning the feel.

Sorbothane or some other really soft gel-like substance would probably do a better job than the latex mod on the switch tops, but I don't really know how we'd attach it.

Not sure I'll find time to play more with these options, but I thought I'd mention them in case there are some other adventurous souls out there who want to try.

Ever thought about putting some of that latex milk in the hole?
Would be hard to remove if you change your mind though...

[piglickjf]

Ever thought about putting some of that latex milk in the hole?
Would be hard to remove if you change your mind though...

Would also be pretty hard to be consistent. Unless you have access to a micropipette I'd think it would be pretty tough to get the same amount down into each hole. Even then I wouldn't be surprised if you wound up with some developing bubbles/air gaps, etc. so that the level of the top of latex, when dried, varies from switch to switch, although I haven't worked with the latex milk so I'm not really sure about its viscosity/surface tension, etc.

PigLick

[Oobly]

Ever thought about putting some of that latex milk in the hole?
Would be hard to remove if you change your mind though...

Would also be pretty hard to be consistent. Unless you have access to a micropipette I'd think it would be pretty tough to get the same amount down into each hole. Even then I wouldn't be surprised if you wound up with some developing bubbles/air gaps, etc. so that the level of the top of latex, when dried, varies from switch to switch, although I haven't worked with the latex milk so I'm not really sure about its viscosity/surface tension, etc.

PigLick

Plus, as it dries it shrinks (a lot actually), so you'd get a sort of cup shaped bit in the hole and the sides would most likely peel away as it dries. I don't think it's a good solution.

You could try putting a little on the bottom of the pole of a Blue slider, though. Would provide just a little damping when bottoming out.

[piglickjf]

Ever thought about putting some of that latex milk in the hole?
Would be hard to remove if you change your mind though...

Would also be pretty hard to be consistent. Unless you have access to a micropipette I'd think it would be pretty tough to get the same amount down into each hole. Even then I wouldn't be surprised if you wound up with some developing bubbles/air gaps, etc. so that the level of the top of latex, when dried, varies from switch to switch, although I haven't worked with the latex milk so I'm not really sure about its viscosity/surface tension, etc.

PigLick

Plus, as it dries it shrinks (a lot actually), so you'd get a sort of cup shaped bit in the hole and the sides would most likely peel away as it dries. I don't think it's a good solution.

You could try putting a little on the bottom of the pole of a Blue slider, though. Would provide just a little damping when bottoming out.

But how adherent is the stuff? It seems like with such a small surface area, the constant pull of gravity combined with repeated impacts with the bottom of the housing would cause it to fall off before too long, wouldn't it? Or does it make a pretty solid bond with the plastic?

[Oobly]

It's still working fine at the top of my switch casings, hasn't come off on any switch yet.

In terms of durability, it may be better to put a tiny bit on top of each side of the slider where it impacts the case, but I think it helps absorb more of the sound and vibration when it's on the case.

It may be possible to do the latex mod on closed switches (without keycaps) if you hold the slider down with something and apply the latex to the top of the slider on each side. Be sure to clean the area you apply latex to with a cotton bud / earbud / Q-Tip so it makes better contact.

I'm sure either way will work and should be durable enough.

I have discovered that some cheap cigarette lighters have about the right size spring to fit inside the tube (the one that pushes the flint against the roller thing)..... It's a curse having such strong curiosity. An interesting thing to note is that the tiny spring may fit around the bottom part of a Blue or Green stem shaft (the extra section they have that isn't there on Red or Brown stems) and only act against the angled section, so it could have the same feeling as on Brown or Red switches. You'd probably have to sacrifice quite a lot of lighters to outfit a whole board, though.

[Pacifist]

ummmmmmmmmmmmmm

http://imsto.cn/index.php?route=product/product&manufacturer_id=13&product_id=88

looks like imsto took your idea

[SpAmRaY]

ummmmmmmmmmmmmm

http://imsto.cn/index.php?route=product/product&manufacturer_id=13&product_id=88

looks like imsto took your idea

^^ haha....I was just about to post that here

[nubbinator]

ummmmmmmmmmmmmm

http://imsto.cn/index.php?route=product/product&manufacturer_id=13&product_id=88

looks like imsto took your idea

Except silica gel is hard, not soft.  I can't imagine it giving a pleasant feel.  And I know some silica gels can break once they've absorbed enough water.

[Oobly]

Haha! Very interesting. I believe they are silicon rubber, not silica gel, from what I can see in the photos.

Turns out the lighter spring was just a hair too large OD, so it bound to the tube and didn't really work.. Anyway, I like the "hourglass" pieces cut from silicon rubber sheet with the leather punch the most. They are consistent and pretty easy to make for a whole board.

I may have to buy some of those balls to try out. I suspect they will have a little less "give" than the hourglass shaped pieces, but should work very well. The price is decent, too.

[epzy]

Hey, Oobly - could you make a typing video with one of your keyboards w/ the trampoline mod?

[mkawa]

Haha! Very interesting. I believe they are silicon rubber, not silica gel, from what I can see in the photos.

Turns out the lighter spring was just a hair too large OD, so it bound to the tube and didn't really work.. Anyway, I like the "hourglass" pieces cut from silicon rubber sheet with the leather punch the most. They are consistent and pretty easy to make for a whole board.

I may have to buy some of those balls to try out. I suspect they will have a little less "give" than the hourglass shaped pieces, but should work very well. The price is decent, too.

they're almost certainly little silicone balls, but they do look exactly like silica dessicant balls. hah! i can see how imsto could get the two compounds confused trying to translate the material name. i'll shoot him a quick correction

[Oobly]

Hey, Oobly - could you make a typing video with one of your keyboards w/ the trampoline mod?

I made this video while doing the mod:

But I don't have an actual typing video.

[Oobly]

Having been made aware that there could be longevity issues with using liquid latex (in this thread: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57881.0 ), I remembered that there are some synthetic liquid rubbers available which could possibly do the job and may even be easier to get hold of, too.

This stuff could be a good product to use instead of latex: http://www.plastidip.com/home_solutions/Plasti_Dip

[AGmurdercore]

ummmmmmmmmmmmmm

http://imsto.cn/index.php?route=product/product&manufacturer_id=13&product_id=88

looks like imsto took your idea

Too bad that the shipping for these is so much (10$ for me)

I was that i lived in a place where i could get more and split the shipping around