Author Topic: New Kailh hotswapable sockets, up to 6000 cycles  (Read 1730 times)

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Offline estux

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  • Posts: 28
New Kailh hotswapable sockets, up to 6000 cycles
« on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 01:15:18 »
https://twitter.com/kailhswitch/status/1430059434219241474?s=21

Has anyone tried these already? They are available in Aliexpress.

I wonder when we will start seeing PCBs with them.

Offline not_irc

  • Posts: 13
Re: New Kailh hotswapable sockets, up to 6000 cycles
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 02:26:34 »
Interesting, are there ISO tkl pcb with those?

Offline Rafen

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  • Location: NA
Re: New Kailh hotswapable sockets, up to 6000 cycles
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 17:15:42 »
I hope new PCBs start coming with this version of socket.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: New Kailh hotswapable sockets, up to 6000 cycles
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 20:15:06 »
While awesome, I question if they really tested the longevity or just a slight tweak to make it better and then slapped some random number on it, it only has to last long enough to reach end of warranty cycle on most boards.


Also, this doesn't address one of the biggest problems with this design, that it's held to the underside of the PCB.
This has led to many sockets being ripped off the pcb, and why Novelkeys tells you to disassemble the keyboard when doing swaps so you can hold the socket and keep it from being ripped off. Some keyboard designs do not open easily. This too could be mitigated with a design guide to get companies to place support under the sockets, but I have yet to ever hear of it.
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Offline not_irc

  • Posts: 13
Re: New Kailh hotswapable sockets, up to 6000 cycles
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 02:40:57 »
While awesome, I question if they really tested the longevity or just a slight tweak to make it better and then slapped some random number on it, it only has to last long enough to reach end of warranty cycle on most boards.


Also, this doesn't address one of the biggest problems with this design, that it's held to the underside of the PCB.
This has led to many sockets being ripped off the pcb, and why Novelkeys tells you to disassemble the keyboard when doing swaps so you can hold the socket and keep it from being ripped off. Some keyboard designs do not open easily. This too could be mitigated with a design guide to get companies to place support under the sockets, but I have yet to ever hear of it.

A tray mount with uniform support under the pcb could obtain that, but it would ruin all the elastic and "sound" properties of pcb

Offline yui

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Re: New Kailh hotswapable sockets, up to 6000 cycles
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 04:48:18 »
i just had a thought about it, nothing other than case compatibility prevents mounting those on the top of the pcb? only problem being having the pcb a fair bit lower down.
i am not a designer though so i may overlook a huge problem with that.
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline not_irc

  • Posts: 13
Re: New Kailh hotswapable sockets, up to 6000 cycles
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 04:52:47 »
i just had a thought about it, nothing other than case compatibility prevents mounting those on the top of the pcb? only problem being having the pcb a fair bit lower down.
i am not a designer though so i may overlook a huge problem with that.

The only way to solve this without a tray mount with full uniform support is to sandwich the sockets between two pcbs :-D

Offline Leslieann

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  • Posts: 4513
Re: New Kailh hotswapable sockets, up to 6000 cycles
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 07:55:42 »
i just had a thought about it, nothing other than case compatibility prevents mounting those on the top of the pcb?
You would have to invert the socket (solder pads are on "top"), put pads on top of the pcb and increase the  space between the pcb and plate.
This leads to some issues of alignment on the users end.


As others mentioned a supporting tray is the simplest solution but also the worst in some ways as it would be a major shift in acoustics.
However, the right material could combat this, a silicone based support could fill the void and support the sockets. It wouldn't be foolproof (silicone can compress) but a huge step up from nothing, killing two birds with one stone.

The sandwich system Not_Irc describes is pretty similar to what I did  on the "PCB" in my 3d printed keyboard worked well, however it mostly did so because the plastic I used was soft enough to dampen the acoustics (30% infill PETG).

Basically it all comes back to the fact that this is a hack to make a not socketed part/system into a socketed part and until the industry as a whole addresses that (which would require a change to the MX specification and increase cost) it will be problematic.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
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| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
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| GMMK TKL
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| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
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| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
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| GH60
More
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| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion