Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Mon, 10 August 2015, 13:24:04
(http://i.imgur.com/TjBjBk9.png)
Render by thesiscamper
Please vote on our Massdrop Poll! (https://www.massdrop.com/vote/Classic-Space-SA-R3-with-Custom-Font)
This is Classic Space, an innovative new Lego-inspired SA R3 keycap set design designed by CQCumbers and Oobly, with help from the Geekhack community. Lego Space (http://brickset.com/sets/theme-Space/subtheme-Classic), with its distinctive bright blue, gray, and trans yellow color scheme, has been a popular theme among Lego enthusiasts since its introduction over 30 years ago, and this set aims to bring the colorful, retro-futuristic charm of these sets to your keyboard. What makes "Classic Space" special, however, is that it features the first non-Gorton font for SA keycaps (inspired by Eurostile Extended (http://typesetinthefuture.com/fontspots-eurostile/)), a feat made possible through a combination of numerous custom doubleshot ABS legends and Signature Plastic's new SA dye-sublimated PBT process, which this set will be among the first to use. It also includes SP's rarely seen translucent polycarbonate "highlight" keys, recalling the famous Lego trans yellow windshields, which will be made for the first time with a glossy finish.
Set Details
- Uniform SA Row 3 profile
- First non-Gorton Modified font on SA keycaps & first community set with SA PBT and polycarbonate keys
- Dye-sublimated SA PBT alphas in light gray (GEC) with black legends
- Custom doubleshot ABS modifiers in blue (BDH) with white (WCK) legends
- Translucent polycarbonate "highlight keys" in yellow (color matched to Lego), blank
- Alternate dye-sublimated SA PBT "highlight keys" in yellow (YAM) with black legends
Current Kit Layout
See images of what is included in each kit on Keyboard Layout Editor (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/53c27b409293bade6f98)
- Base TKL Kit (covers standard TKL board, required for alphas)
- Numpad Kit (covers standard numpad)
- Novelty Kit (face, serial number, and logo novelties)
- Alternate Modifiers Kit (different mod colors)
- Nonstandard Layouts Kit (covers nonstandard bottom row layouts, HUNT homing keys)
- Planck Kit (contains blank mods for Planck compatibility)
- Ergodox Kit (contains blank mods for Ergodox compatibility)
I have verified with Signature Plastics that everything here is feasible. This set would not have been possible without the work of Oobly, who designed a large portion of Classic Space and did all of the earlier renders, livingspeedbump, who guided me through the process of making a set, Melissa from SP, who answered the numerous questions required to make this innovative set possible, and thesiscamper, who did the wonderful renders you see here. Most of all I am indebted to the Geekhack community, and I cannot thank the people on this thread enough for the information, feedback, and help they have provided over the course of this set's development, which has taken nearly a year and a half at this point.
(http://i.imgur.com/zS0EuaR.png)
Render by thesiscamper
(http://images.brickset.com/sets/images/497-1.jpg)
Lego Galaxy Explorer (1979), the inspiration for this set
Post by: livingspeedbump on Mon, 10 August 2015, 15:39:54
Can you post some pics of the lego kits that inspired this?
Post by: theanyday on Mon, 10 August 2015, 17:14:30
Post by: Bloo on Mon, 10 August 2015, 18:23:28
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Mon, 10 August 2015, 18:58:42
People are going to come up with some absolutely sick novelties for this one. Also, legos are abs.
I realize, but I thought the custom font, which emulates the look of the font used on the original sets, was worth changing the material for (Custom fonts are a lot cheaper with PBT Dyesub). Essentially, I'm going for the looks of the original legos, rather than the actual texture and feel of lego bricks (Is PBT less painful to step on, too? That could be an advantage). Besides, the feel of the ABS plastic used in keycaps doesn't immediately bring to mind the feeling of glossy plastic legos anyways, at least for me. It might be possible to make glossy, lego like ABS keycaps, but I don't know how many people would like typing on them over the long term, and I believe it would also inflate the price, but I'm not sure on that point.
Post by: PikKirby on Mon, 10 August 2015, 23:23:18
I think it looks great. I'm especially a fan of the Classic Space Logo for the esc key. (Are there any other planned cosmetic keys?)
I really hope this ends up getting a GB. Best of luck Q_Cumbers :)
Post by: Oobly on Tue, 11 August 2015, 07:27:51
On the one hand I love the concept, but on the other I feel the profile is wrong, the texture is wrong, the material is wrong and some of the colours are wrong to really match the concept.
I've come up with a more "matching" concept set, but now I don't know what to do. On the one hand I'd like to start my own IC for it, so I can then control how it ends up, but on the other hand, the inspiration for it came from this IC, so I shouldn't do that. I'm worried that if I share my whole concept here in the hopes the OP runs with it, that some parts of it will be left out or changed too much it won't be the set I truly crave.
I'm very passionate about this concept, since these sets were my favourite toys when I was growing up and I was was always mega excited at Christmas and birthdays to see if I'd get one. I love the way Benny even had the broken front piece on his helmet... that was always a weak spot on the figures.
Post by: THSdrummer on Tue, 11 August 2015, 07:29:10
Post by: Oobly on Tue, 11 August 2015, 07:45:44
Post by: Blackhawk on Tue, 11 August 2015, 07:54:23
Post by: romevi on Tue, 11 August 2015, 10:42:46
Post by: Carlos_the_turtle on Tue, 11 August 2015, 13:07:40
Post by: just66in on Wed, 12 August 2015, 06:44:40
Post by: Zanduby on Wed, 12 August 2015, 08:09:22
Looking at this again, I think it could use a touch of red. To match the LEGO theme.
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 12 August 2015, 09:50:54
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62327.0
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Wed, 12 August 2015, 11:01:35
Just gonna leave this here:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62327.0
I did not see Cospar prior to designing this set (I am new to the community), but though the color scheme does have similarities, it is lighter in color overall and takes inspiration from different sources than mine. While Cospar was SA sculpted, this keyset is designed to be uncountoured. Also, its group buy was cancelled, so it doesn't really function as an alternative to Classic Space anyways.
Post by: stoic-lemon on Wed, 12 August 2015, 11:10:06
Just gonna leave this here:Yeah, since that never even went ahead I see no problem here.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62327.0
I did not see Cospar prior to designing this set (I am new to the community), but though the color scheme does have similarities, it is lighter in color overall and takes inspiration from different sources than mine. While Cospar was SA sculpted, this keyset is designed to be uncountoured. Also, its group buy was cancelled, so it doesn't really function as an alternative to Classic Space anyways.
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Wed, 12 August 2015, 18:59:29
Post by: Elrick on Wed, 12 August 2015, 19:20:04
Just gonna leave this here:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62327.0 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62327.0)
Other than having a similar shaded Colour-way, this set doesn't match Cospar at all. First off CQ has used a different font (not bad actually, sick of seeing Cherry fonts now) for his key-set and he kept the standard two colour choice (good for keeping costs down).
Plus no added Logos other than the stand alone ESC key, again great at lowering the price - so this set could be marketed towards anyone wanting to break their virginal position, when they try out a larger than life SA Profile for their TKL.
Like his design trying to keep the basics in check and trying out a NEW font to represent a slightly different key-set from the usual stuff being thrust upon us all. Don't forget that Cospar never got made in the end so CQ's design should go forth to SP's factory for completion :thumb: .
Enough said.......
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Wed, 12 August 2015, 19:29:00
Just gonna leave this here:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62327.0 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62327.0)
Other than having a similar shaded Colour-way, this set doesn't match Cospar at all. First off CQ has used a different font (not bad actually, sick of seeing Cherry fonts now) for his key-set and he kept the standard two colour choice (good for keeping costs down).
Plus no added Logos other than the stand alone ESC key, again great at lowering the price - so this set could be marketed towards anyone wanting to break their virginal position, when they try out a larger than life SA Profile for their TKL.
Like his design trying to keep the basics in check and trying out a NEW font to represent a slightly different key-set from the usual stuff being thrust upon us all. Don't forget that Cospar never got made in the end so CQ's design should go forth to SP's factory for completion :thumb: .
Enough said.......
Just trying to make sure - Did you read the post before the change to SA profile and standard font, when it was DSA and with a custom font, or after? Like you I really want both SA and custom font, but since it doesn't seem possible to make SA dyseub keycaps, which would you be more willing to sacrifice - the SA profile or the custom font?
Also, I don't think it was ever two color, I believe I always planned it with grey, blue and yellow keycaps. I think leaving out one of those three colors wouldn't make it as recognizable as Classic Space, but if you think otherwise, please let me know.
And if it is at all possible to make SA profile dyseub caps, TELL ME. PLEASE.
Post by: neverused on Wed, 12 August 2015, 19:30:06
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Wed, 12 August 2015, 19:38:36
If it is SA then it's 0% interest for me, though I would be thrilled to see DSA.
Well, it was DSA, but just changed to SA because of the feedback of every other person I asked with an opinion on the profile (Which isn't that many). I really need more commenters to decide - Would DSA and a custom font be more fitting for a Classic Space keycap set, or would more people prefer SA, glossy finish, and authentic legend colors, even at the cost of the custom font. SA and custom font would be the best of both worlds, in my opinion, but if it isn't possible, then it is difficult to decide where to compromise without some more people chiming in.
Post by: Elrick on Wed, 12 August 2015, 20:13:38
If it is SA then it's 0% interest for me, though I would be thrilled to see DSA.
I really need more commenters to decide - Would DSA and a custom font be more fitting for a Classic Space keycap set, or would more people prefer SA, glossy finish, and authentic legend colors, even at the cost of the custom font. SA and custom font would be the best of both worlds, in my opinion, but if it isn't possible, then it is difficult to decide where to compromise without some more people chiming in.
Don't listen to the flat earth people wanting DSA only, SA is the NORM here and stick with it. No one likes DSA besides some freaks thinking they all know better than 90% of us that actually buy and install SA's onto all our keyboards.
Always stay with SA profile because it's GOD's law and you don't want to be another heathen thrown into the pits of hell to suffer an eternity of pain and suffering because you mistakenly think that DSA is more appropriate ;) .
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Wed, 12 August 2015, 20:26:09
If it is SA then it's 0% interest for me, though I would be thrilled to see DSA.
I really need more commenters to decide - Would DSA and a custom font be more fitting for a Classic Space keycap set, or would more people prefer SA, glossy finish, and authentic legend colors, even at the cost of the custom font. SA and custom font would be the best of both worlds, in my opinion, but if it isn't possible, then it is difficult to decide where to compromise without some more people chiming in.
Don't listen to the flat earth people wanting DSA only, SA is the NORM here and stick with it. No one likes DSA besides some freaks thinking they all know better than 90% of us that actually buy and install SA's onto all our keyboards.
Always stay with SA profile because it's GOD's law and you don't want to be another heathen thrown into the pits of hell to suffer an eternity of pain and suffering because you mistakenly think that DSA is more appropriate ;) .
I like SA too (though my opinions aren't as strong as yours), but I'm just concerned with whether it is worth the sacrifices; you seem to like the custom font a lot, and would you be willing to sacrifice that for SA rather than DSA caps? Do you think doing so would make it more or less "Classic Space" like?
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 12 August 2015, 20:35:22
Just gonna leave this here:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62327.0
Well Cospar won't ever get produced, and I think this idea can easily be developed into a very good original idea. :thumb:
Post by: stoic-lemon on Wed, 12 August 2015, 20:35:53
I won't presume to speak for the whole community, so I'll just say that I don't have strong feelings either way. DSA is very flexible and can be used on a lot of different boards and will allow that custom font. SA looks really cool. We need more opinions stating why one is better than the other. I'm on the fence right now.
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Wed, 12 August 2015, 20:40:38
I don't think hyperbole is useful in an interest check.
I won't presume to speak for the whole community, so I'll just say that I don't have strong feelings either way. DSA is very flexible and can be used on a lot of different boards and will allow that custom font. SA looks really cool. We need more opinions stating why one is better than the other. I'm on the fence right now.
So am I.
Oobly introducted me to uncountoured SA and glossy keycap finishes, which I think look more lego brick like, and, well, the custom font wasn't really used that much in the sets...
On the other hand, DSA and the custom font look more futurisitc, and seem to have a least a few fans. It also makes it more different from sets like Symbiosis and Cospar, even if that difference isn't really necessary, and might be a selling point in itself.
Post by: neverused on Wed, 12 August 2015, 20:49:36
If it is SA then it's 0% interest for me, though I would be thrilled to see DSA.
I really need more commenters to decide - Would DSA and a custom font be more fitting for a Classic Space keycap set, or would more people prefer SA, glossy finish, and authentic legend colors, even at the cost of the custom font. SA and custom font would be the best of both worlds, in my opinion, but if it isn't possible, then it is difficult to decide where to compromise without some more people chiming in.
Don't listen to the flat earth people wanting DSA only, SA is the NORM here and stick with it. No one likes DSA besides some freaks thinking they all know better than 90% of us that actually buy and install SA's onto all our keyboards.
Always stay with SA profile because it's GOD's law and you don't want to be another heathen thrown into the pits of hell to suffer an eternity of pain and suffering because you mistakenly think that DSA is more appropriate ;) .
It looks great and can feel amazing, just my personal preference and typing style make it less than optimal. I tend to put too much lateral force on the keys due to the increased height.
Though I can say that I have never believed the earth is flat, regardless of my keycap profile preference.
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Wed, 12 August 2015, 20:58:02
If it is SA then it's 0% interest for me, though I would be thrilled to see DSA.
I really need more commenters to decide - Would DSA and a custom font be more fitting for a Classic Space keycap set, or would more people prefer SA, glossy finish, and authentic legend colors, even at the cost of the custom font. SA and custom font would be the best of both worlds, in my opinion, but if it isn't possible, then it is difficult to decide where to compromise without some more people chiming in.
Don't listen to the flat earth people wanting DSA only, SA is the NORM here and stick with it. No one likes DSA besides some freaks thinking they all know better than 90% of us that actually buy and install SA's onto all our keyboards.
Always stay with SA profile because it's GOD's law and you don't want to be another heathen thrown into the pits of hell to suffer an eternity of pain and suffering because you mistakenly think that DSA is more appropriate ;) .
It looks great and can feel amazing, just my personal preference and typing style make it less than optimal. I tend to put too much lateral force on the keys due to the increased height.
Though I can say that I have never believed the earth is flat, regardless of my keycap profile preference.
This is good to know - do any other people you prefer DSA keycaps because of this? Again, it's difficult to judge the overall needs and wants of the community from a few replies on this thread - more responses really are appreciated.
On another note, it if were possible (I don't think it is), how would people feel about dyesub SA keycaps?
Post by: neverused on Wed, 12 August 2015, 21:00:28
Does SP do pbt SA?If it is SA then it's 0% interest for me, though I would be thrilled to see DSA.
I really need more commenters to decide - Would DSA and a custom font be more fitting for a Classic Space keycap set, or would more people prefer SA, glossy finish, and authentic legend colors, even at the cost of the custom font. SA and custom font would be the best of both worlds, in my opinion, but if it isn't possible, then it is difficult to decide where to compromise without some more people chiming in.
Don't listen to the flat earth people wanting DSA only, SA is the NORM here and stick with it. No one likes DSA besides some freaks thinking they all know better than 90% of us that actually buy and install SA's onto all our keyboards.
Always stay with SA profile because it's GOD's law and you don't want to be another heathen thrown into the pits of hell to suffer an eternity of pain and suffering because you mistakenly think that DSA is more appropriate ;) .
It looks great and can feel amazing, just my personal preference and typing style make it less than optimal. I tend to put too much lateral force on the keys due to the increased height.
Though I can say that I have never believed the earth is flat, regardless of my keycap profile preference.
This is good to know - do any other people you prefer DSA keycaps because of this? Again, it's difficult to judge the overall needs and wants of the community from a few replies on this thread - more responses really are appreciated.
On another note, it if were possible (I don't think it is), how would people feel about dyesub SA keycaps?
Post by: unoab on Wed, 12 August 2015, 21:02:28
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb385/unoab/keyboards/keycaps/th_DSC04876.jpg) (http://s1203.photobucket.com/user/unoab/media/keyboards/keycaps/DSC04876.jpg.html)
As to what I think should be on this set.... I love the SA profile, but I like your font choice too as otherwise it would just be a slight color variant on the round4/SPH caps (http://keypuller.com/round-4-spherical-space-cadet/). I wonder if you can talk Melissa into doing PBT alphas and then custom legends in that font for all the mods, maybe then the price would not be as crazy as custom everything, but we could have the custom font to complement the idea behind the set. And Symbiosis did 26 custom legends and was only a small bit more expensive than 1976 that was running at the same time (I think it was around ~$15 more for the TKL set in the >75 orders bucket), and Modern selectric just ran with all custom mods, so I don't think going the custom legend route is that bad if you can get the orders behind it, so don't be afraid to go that direction, but just make sure to set the MOQ high enough so that early people buying in are not scared off by a high initial price.
and ignoring the APL legends on the alphas which are also darker than called for, this set would be close to symbiosis with some yellow keys to fill it out, so something like this:
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb385/unoab/keyboards/th_DSC04879.jpg) (http://s1203.photobucket.com/user/unoab/media/keyboards/DSC04879.jpg.html)
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Wed, 12 August 2015, 21:14:24
Show Image
I really wish that SP would expand or at least publish what caps they can make in the SA profile in PBT. I know you can get 1u and 1.5u keys in PBT as you can buy the blanks, but I have not seen any other sizes. Also the molds are a bit thinner on the PBT SA caps than on the normal ABS molds, so they do feel thinner and cheaper. Here is a photo for reference (from left to right; ABS, PBT, PC relegendable shell, PC shell with ABS insert):
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb385/unoab/keyboards/keycaps/th_DSC04876.jpg) (http://s1203.photobucket.com/user/unoab/media/keyboards/keycaps/DSC04876.jpg.html)
As to what I think should be on this set.... I love the SA profile, but I like your font choice too as otherwise it would just be a slight color variant on the round4/SPH caps (http://keypuller.com/round-4-spherical-space-cadet/). I wonder if you can talk Melissa into doing PBT alphas and then custom legends in that font for all the mods, maybe then the price would not be as crazy as custom everything, but we could have the custom font to complement the idea behind the set. And Symbiosis did 26 custom legends and was only a small bit more expensive than 1976 that was running at the same time (I think it was around ~$15 more for the TKL set in the >75 orders bucket), and Modern selectric just ran with all custom mods, so I don't think going the custom legend route is that bad if you can get the orders behind it, so don't be afraid to go that direction, but just make sure to set the MOQ high enough so that early people buying in are not scared off by a high initial price.
and ignoring the APL legends on the alphas which are also darker than called for, this set would be close to symbiosis with some yellow keys to fill it out, so something like this:
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb385/unoab/keyboards/th_DSC04879.jpg) (http://s1203.photobucket.com/user/unoab/media/keyboards/DSC04879.jpg.html)
Thank so much for sharing this! I don't know if this set will be popular enough, like symbiosis or modern selectric, to offset the cost of all custom mods, but you have given me alot to think about. Do you think the thickness of custom ABS caps are worth the increased cost of molds, over SA PBT? Do they last considerably longer? Do they feel more like Lego? Right now, the hybrid proposal is looking really attractive, but I want to know the options.
What do you think of using transparent yellow polycarbonate for "highlight" keys, to match the signature trans yellow classic space pieces? And is the yellow keyed Symbiosis yours, or is it commonly available (I don't think I've seen something like that anywhere else, and it looks better than any render I've done)?
I hope I'm not bothering you too much, but you seem very knowledgable about these things.
Post by: unoab on Wed, 12 August 2015, 21:39:58
Thank so much for sharing this! I don't know if this set will be popular enough, like symbiosis or modern selectric, to offset the cost of all custom mods, but you have given me alot to think about. Do you think the thickness of custom ABS caps are worth the increased cost of molds, over SA PBT? Do they last considerably longer? Do they feel more like Lego? Right now, the hybrid proposal is looking really attractive, but I want to know the options.
What do you think of using transparent yellow polycarbonate for "highlight" keys, to match the signature trans yellow classic space pieces? And is the yellow keyed Symbiosis yours, or is it commonly available (I don't think I've seen something like that anywhere else, and it looks better than any render I've done)?
I hope I'm not bothering you too much, but you seem very knowledgable about these things.
No problem, and I really like the idea of the polycarbonate keys as accent keys, that completely reminds me of the old lego sets. I don't have any SP yellow polycarbonate keys but I can only hope it is as neon as the lego pieces that used to come in those space sets. And the symbiosis set is mine, I just threw it on a board, and the yellow accents were from the Rad hard buy that happened a while back for accent keys to go with the nuclear data keyset.
As to the ABS vs PBT, as far as I know SP wont really run sets in PBT (there was one on PMK for a day titled "traffic", it disappeared very quickly), but you would really need to email Melissa and see if they would allow that, they may not even have the ability to dyesub them which would rule that out fairly quickly. I threw it out there as I know they still have them in the key shop, and would love to see some PBT dyesubbed SA caps done, even if it was only available for the alphas, as that could open up a lot of new options, like cryllic, or a beamspring APL clone set if the trend caught on. As to the materials, I think both will last equally long, ABS will shine quicker, but both will shine given enough time. ABS does feel more lego-like, PBT is a more brittle plastic, so just fiddling with it holding a few caps they do feel different. Also Legos are made of ABS so it makes sense it would feel similar depending on what observations you were using as a comparison.
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 12 August 2015, 21:48:23
Thank so much for sharing this! I don't know if this set will be popular enough, like symbiosis or modern selectric, to offset the cost of all custom mods, but you have given me alot to think about. Do you think the thickness of custom ABS caps are worth the increased cost of molds, over SA PBT? Do they last considerably longer? Do they feel more like Lego? Right now, the hybrid proposal is looking really attractive, but I want to know the options.
What do you think of using transparent yellow polycarbonate for "highlight" keys, to match the signature trans yellow classic space pieces? And is the yellow keyed Symbiosis yours, or is it commonly available (I don't think I've seen something like that anywhere else, and it looks better than any render I've done)?
I hope I'm not bothering you too much, but you seem very knowledgable about these things.
No problem, and I really like the idea of the polycarbonate keys as accent keys, that completely reminds me of the old lego sets. I don't have any SP yellow polycarbonate keys but I can only hope it is as neon as the lego pieces that used to come in those space sets. And the symbiosis set is mine, I just threw it on a board, and the yellow accents were from the Rad hard buy that happened a while back for accent keys to go with the nuclear data keyset.
As to the ABS vs PBT, as far as I know SP wont really run sets in PBT (there was on on PMK for a day titled "traffic", it disappeared very quickly), but you would really need to email Melissa and see if they would allow that, they may not even have the ability to dyesub them which would rule that out fairly quickly. I threw it out there as I know they still have them in the key shop, and would love to see some PBT dyesubbed SA caps done, even if it was only available for the alphas, as that could open up a lot of new options, like cryllic, or a beamspring APL clone set if the trend caught on. As to the materials, I think both will last equally long, ABS will shine quicker, but both will shine given enough time. ABS does feel more lego-like, PBT is a more brittle plastic, so just fiddling with it holding a few caps they do feel different. Also Legos are made of ABS so it makes sense it would feel similar depending on what observations you were using as a comparison.
I just emailed Melissa to check about these options, so I'll post here tomorrow when I get an answer :) And I really do think ABS is the way to go, I mean this is a set about LEGO, and seems like the making the keycaps out of the same plastic as LEGOs is the way to go :thumb:
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Wed, 12 August 2015, 22:08:39
(http://images.bigcartel.com/bigcartel/product_images/131976057/max_h-1000+max_w-1000/Yellowspace.JPG)
The yellow transparent polycarbonate keys don't seem to look anywhere near as neon as the original parts - it's a shame, but I think most people would still like it? If we were to use it, it would be blank. Again, I would love to hear your opinions on this. Some people have requested keycaps in lesser-used colors - if this is a common enough request, red or green transparent polycarbonate "color kits" might be added as child deals.
Look for a new mockup tommorow.
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 12 August 2015, 23:22:12
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 13 August 2015, 00:25:00
Wow, this is really looking much better than I expected! I greatly appreciate all the knowledge and feedback offered by this community, and I hope we all get a fantastic keycap set out of it. It looks like we won't have to sacrifice a custom font after all - I don't want to make too many changes while Oobly is asleep, but it looks like ABS keycaps with the custom font are the way to go, at least for the modifiers. I just want to ask - Is anyone concerned about the price of molds? Symbiosis wasn't too expensive for most, it seems, but I just want to make sure (I mean, lego fans these days seem to have the same wallet depression problems geekhackers do).Show Image(http://images.bigcartel.com/bigcartel/product_images/131976057/max_h-1000+max_w-1000/Yellowspace.JPG)
The yellow transparent polycarbonate keys don't seem to look anywhere near as neon as the original parts - it's a shame, but I think most people would still like it? If we were to use it, it would be blank. Again, I would love to hear your opinions on this. Some people have requested keycaps in lesser-used colors - if this is a common enough request, red or green transparent polycarbonate "color kits" might be added as child deals.
Look for a new mockup tommorow.
You started out with so much promise and enthusiasm and now you've digressed into umms and ahhhs, what the hell went wrong >:( ?
Stick with your original designs because that is the first and ONLY decent choice. When a designer starts to change their original colour-way into what they think others will like you will get no pick-up with this. You have to remember that relying upon democratic choices gets you regimes like in the Western World that have collapsed upon themselves into depression and extreme irrelevance.
Always remain true to your original work and only 'slightly' adjust it but do not go listening to every Tom, D1ck and Harry about major design choices because it shall fail big time.
Post by: Bloo on Thu, 13 August 2015, 00:28:10
-http://www.peeron.com/cgi-bin/invcgis/colorguide.cgi
-prefer yellow of the lego heads to the polycarb, more iconic.
-wouldn't mind the spacesuit red added as an accent
-prefer white legends, but only because of the packaging graphics, don't remember the graphics on the physical sets at all. Weak reasoning, but I'm stuck with it. Also, white legends might not have enough contrast with the yellow, so your mix is probably a better idea. http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/7cab9f11e9f997c541b0
Could be a great set. :thumb:
Post by: stoic-lemon on Thu, 13 August 2015, 00:44:06
I think SA fits the set better having heard some concrete reasons.
If I went for this set I would probably want to put it on a 60% as I think it would look really nice.
Please consider a set with a nice selection of blanks.
Post by: Oobly on Thu, 13 August 2015, 01:17:50
Wow, this is really looking much better than I expected! I greatly appreciate all the knowledge and feedback offered by this community, and I hope we all get a fantastic keycap set out of it. It looks like we won't have to sacrifice a custom font after all - I don't want to make too many changes while Oobly is asleep, but it looks like ABS keycaps with the custom font are the way to go, at least for the modifiers. I just want to ask - Is anyone concerned about the price of molds? Symbiosis wasn't too expensive for most, it seems, but I just want to make sure (I mean, lego fans these days seem to have the same wallet depression problems geekhackers do).Show Image(http://images.bigcartel.com/bigcartel/product_images/131976057/max_h-1000+max_w-1000/Yellowspace.JPG)
The yellow transparent polycarbonate keys don't seem to look anywhere near as neon as the original parts - it's a shame, but I think most people would still like it? If we were to use it, it would be blank. Again, I would love to hear your opinions on this. Some people have requested keycaps in lesser-used colors - if this is a common enough request, red or green transparent polycarbonate "color kits" might be added as child deals.
Look for a new mockup tommorow.
You started out with so much promise and enthusiasm and now you've digressed into umms and ahhhs, what the hell went wrong >:( ?
Stick with your original designs because that is the first and ONLY decent choice. When a designer starts to change their original colour-way into what they think others will like you will get no pick-up with this. You have to remember that relying upon democratic choices gets you regimes like in the Western World that have collapsed upon themselves into depression and extreme irrelevance.
Always remain true to your original work and only 'slightly' adjust it but do not go listening to every Tom, D1ck and Harry about major design choices because it shall fail big time.
<nervously raises hand> Um... I think I might have had something to do with that... I very enthusiastically proposed a modified version of the set. We're in PM's at the moment hammering out the pros and cons of various aspects of each profile, material, colour layout, etc, to try to get a set that totally rocks while staying true to the original concept. Stay tuned... This is going to be a great set!
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 13 August 2015, 03:12:08
<nervously raises hand> Um... I think I might have had something to do with that... I very enthusiastically proposed a modified version of the set. We're in PM's at the moment hammering out the pros and cons of various aspects of each profile, material, colour layout, etc, to try to get a set that totally rocks while staying true to the original concept. Stay tuned... This is going to be a great set!
Oobly old stick, if you're involved here please ignore my usual rantings here.
You're an unusual type of person, mostly quiet and subdued yet you do really offer some beautifully designed key-sets when called upon, can not wait to see what you have up your sleeves here 8) .
Post by: Keamdar Darkforge on Thu, 13 August 2015, 13:04:45
red mods from the red space suit would be a good extra it would prolly only need shift and down since you still need some blue to get the right look.
regarding materials and fonts.
abs would be great since it would feel like legos. pbt feels rougher so lets call it 'studs up' so its still on theme ;D
the font is worth fighting for imo but cause of cap costs will mean printing, prolly dye sub, and so the legends need to be darker. which looks fine but like a few pointed out is a little tough to read. if having the lego space font means dark legends then dark will be good. the space sets sometimes had grey blocks with black symbols, grills and other marking on them. So it's on theme.
don't like that yellow translucent. too different thats some other toy not a space windshield.
also my vote is for DCS profile.
Also Benny rocks and should be the mascot for this set :thumb:
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Thu, 13 August 2015, 13:35:13
Post by: neverused on Thu, 13 August 2015, 13:54:15
Post by: neverused on Thu, 13 August 2015, 13:55:24
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Thu, 13 August 2015, 14:41:05
What is the advantage of all row 3 SA compared to DSA? The additional height of the SA caps would create a longer lever arm and put greater torque on each keystroke not perfectly perpendicular to the switch itself. Is it perhaps the texture of the DSA or the supposed aesthetic value of the all row 3 SA?
I and most people I have spoken to seem to agree that a row 3 SA profile looks and feels much more like Lego than DSA. I don't think taller keycaps creating additional torque is enough of a problem for enough people to justify a change of profile. (Other people who disagree with these statements, I would love to hear your reasons)
Also, a Lego inspired set pretty much requires a Planck set or child deal. It would be perfect.
We are figuring these things out, so feedback is appreciated. Child deals and other sets may depend on the costs from Signature Plastics and overall community interest in them. It looks like some red colored keys are a pretty often requested feature, for example.
Post by: MiTo on Thu, 13 August 2015, 19:54:38
But the project was not. (http://i.imgur.com/UplPjCz.png)
This is all I can say. (http://i.imgur.com/pZ0g3gS.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/AC7CZBM.png)
Post by: stoic-lemon on Thu, 13 August 2015, 20:53:25
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Thu, 13 August 2015, 21:05:31
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/PeKIu0d.jpg)
I don't know about that, but I agree with the sentiment. Given the current differences between the sets, and the even more different directions planned, I would hope that classic space fans will find this set more authentic to the theme than MiTo's, which draws inspiration from different sources but still might look attractive to fans of classic space who don't frequent these forums.
MiTo - If you check my post history on here and on reddit, you can see that this set was developed completely independently from Cospar, and that it takes inspiration from different sources and is going in a different direction. I only hope that fans know that your set was not inspired by Classic Space (Whose color scheme I once thought extremely distinctive and unique).
Post by: stoic-lemon on Thu, 13 August 2015, 21:07:55
Post by: blcksqrrl on Thu, 13 August 2015, 21:31:21
I really like the set as it is now and I can't wait to see what improvements are made :thumb:
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Thu, 13 August 2015, 21:45:23
I love it all. I agree with making it as much a LEGO set as it can possibly be, so glossy ABS works for me. The only thing that I would like to see added is some red, either a WASD set or something of the sort.
I really like the set as it is now and I can't wait to see what improvements are made :thumb:
Red color keys are certainly being planned, but we still haven't heard back from Signature Plastics, so details on how they are being incorporated are still a little up in the air.
I can't wait either - hopefully we'll have new renders by tommorow.
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 13 August 2015, 21:51:25
I really like both sets so I hope something can be worked out.
Same here but if one is cancelled what would be the cause of the other one failing from launching here?
We need either one to get up and go, so why is there a complete halt on both sets?
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Thu, 13 August 2015, 21:55:47
I really like both sets so I hope something can be worked out.
Same here but if one is cancelled what would be the cause of the other one failing from launching here?
We need either one to get up and go, so why is there a complete halt on both sets?
I cannot speak for Cospar, but progress certainly has not halted on "Classic Space". We are in the progress of talking with Signature Plastics, but haven't recieved answers yet - stay tuned for renders, hopefully by tommorow. Don't worry, we are still working hard on this behind the scenes.
Post by: livingspeedbump on Thu, 13 August 2015, 22:48:19
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/PeKIu0d.jpg)
I don't know about that, but I agree with the sentiment. Given the current differences between the sets, and the even more different directions planned, I would hope that classic space fans will find this set more authentic to the theme than MiTo's, which draws inspiration from different sources but still might look attractive to fans of classic space who don't frequent these forums.
MiTo - If you check my post history on here and on reddit, you can see that this set was developed completely independently from Cospar, and that it takes inspiration from different sources and is going in a different direction. I only hope that fans know that your set was not inspired by Classic Space (Whose color scheme I once thought extremely distinctive and unique).
I think this is unique enough, and it is still developing as well. I wouldn't worry about it!
Post by: MiTo on Fri, 14 August 2015, 00:50:37
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 14 August 2015, 01:27:37
Seriously, MiTo?..... Seriously?!
I think this is a little rich coming from you, considering the CS:GO sets controversy.
These sets have different inspiration, different profile (all Row 3 instead of sculptured), different colours (Cospar is all pastel-like colours, whereas this set is very bright, clear and "solid" colours), different font / logos, different surface finish, etc. The only similarities are that both sets have some form of blue mods and F keys and yellow "highlights", even though the blue is very different and the yellow may end up being clear polycarbonate... The alphas are completely different and the extras / novelties (which are what often define a set) are completely unique (we have some nice ideas for these, by the way).
The original mockup is not what the set looks like any more, so the "distribution" is not the same.
Both sets can be made into GB's and be independently successful because they're targeting different interests and mental connections. There is only one tentative connection between the sets and that is "space"... Like Star Wars and Star Trek.
Stay tuned for the new mockups, we're working hard on it and making an effort to bring this together.
MiTo, please wait for the new mockups and then if you still think there's too much overlap between the sets we can take it into emails instead of in threads.
Thank you.
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 14 August 2015, 02:03:02
I also hope both sets will get made.
Post by: MiTo on Fri, 14 August 2015, 02:17:12
Post by: stoic-lemon on Fri, 14 August 2015, 02:18:20
Post by: Elrick on Fri, 14 August 2015, 02:50:43
I expect you to understand my friend, let's keep this civil and respect one another.
We ALL shall keep any private matters entirely separate from getting this design made. After all we should be people willing to accept one another regardless, especially when it comes to developing and creating a key-set for the hard-core addicts belonging to Geekhack.
We live for new Key-sets........
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 14 August 2015, 03:03:49
"I can't allow it to happen"
Seriously, MiTo?..... Seriously?!
I have much respect for you oobly, so I ask you, or whoever is designing this, to respect myself too and comply with the solutions I provided. I was very clear and the sets are indeed extremely similar. This is undeniable. There are many other themes that can be explored and original stuff that can be created. You already now I that I can help.
But please respect me and my hobby as I already respect you since the very beginning of PuLSE. I don't want any sort of drama/stupidity, let's respect each other in every aspect. All I said in this quotation of yours, is that will do my best to prevent a similar idea like this from happening - since I did it before with so much passion. I draw the logo by hand, it is mine. Everything I did is original - from the color choice to the legends.
I expect you to understand my friend, let's keep this civil and respect one another.
I don't either want drama. Which is why I will be sending you a PM and request we continue the discussion there, while those who have an interest in this set can continue posting in this thread.
I do feel that you should have contacted us by PM before making accusations in the thread, however, and request that you do that in future if something like this comes up again.
Post by: MiTo on Fri, 14 August 2015, 06:28:30
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 14 August 2015, 06:51:18
I kindly request nobody replies to the above post. We'll sort it out outside the thread and will post the results here once we reach a resolution.
Post by: MiTo on Fri, 14 August 2015, 06:56:01
PM me. Stop crapping on this thread, or I'll ask the mods to intervene. Thank you.
I kindly request nobody replies to the above post. We'll sort it out outside the thread and will post the results here once we reach a resolution.
I will not PM you as I've got other stuff to do. I already made my requests and proposed the only viable solution to me. I'm not thread crapping and already reported the thread because of it's "inspiration". You are not OP and you are not the designer of this keyset.
I'm waiting for his reply.
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Fri, 14 August 2015, 07:45:54
Post by: livingspeedbump on Fri, 14 August 2015, 12:52:31
I really like both sets so I hope something can be worked out.
Same here but if one is cancelled what would be the cause of the other one failing from launching here?
We need either one to get up and go, so why is there a complete halt on both sets?
I'm with you. Lets just get both up and running. They are totally different, and will be quite developed sets. They will both reach MOQ, and since nobody is in it for the money having 100 happy people or 1000 happy people is no different. Making a set is a labor of love for the community. :)
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 14 August 2015, 13:02:08
I do not want to take severe measures against this project.
Seriously? So you'll just cry some more?
The only reason you came back here was to pimp your massdrop set so you could make $$$$.
PS: And you are not a friendly guy and you don't respect anybody.
Post by: inanis on Fri, 14 August 2015, 13:15:22
I'm a pretty open minded person, but the fact that MiTo is basically threatening someone who meant no harm at all over a colourway seems a bit much.
Post by: Bloo on Fri, 14 August 2015, 13:21:58
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/ae6ae72f6f0e773dd25c
Post by: MiTo on Fri, 14 August 2015, 13:25:24
Alright. Back on track. Cq, is this where you are currently?
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/ae6ae72f6f0e773dd25c
Exactly.
After some PMs with multiple people, I can't wait to see the new renders! Both projects can certainly coexist and I'm looking forward to the development of Classic Space.
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Fri, 14 August 2015, 14:12:35
What about the classic lego minifig smiley face as a custom legend? Black on the yellow background. You'd have to check, but I'd be suprised if they are trademarked due to the amount of variation minifig faces have.
Props to CQ_Cumbers for being calm and respectable forum member :thumb: I hope you continue to listen to the constructive majority here on GH, and not the negative minority :)
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 14 August 2015, 16:58:15
Ideas are ten a penny but execution is where it counts. I love the Lego kits that inspire your choices and I'm very interested to see the full set of renders and quote from SP.
What about the classic lego minifig smiley face as a custom legend? Black on the yellow background. You'd have to check, but I'd be suprised if they are trademarked due to the amount of variation minifig faces have.
Props to CQ_Cumbers for being calm and respectable forum member :thumb: I hope you continue to listen to the constructive majority here on GH, and not the negative minority :)
I agree..
I hope the others don't mind me sharing this here... great minds think alike?
[attach=1]
HYPE!
Yup, CQ_Cumbers has handled himself well :)
Post by: MiTo on Fri, 14 August 2015, 17:23:38
I agree..
I hope the others don't mind me sharing this here... great minds think alike?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/1EBxISn.png)
HYPE!
(http://i.imgur.com/b12zmh5.png)
Benny approves.
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Fri, 14 August 2015, 19:16:40
Post by: livingspeedbump on Fri, 14 August 2015, 19:33:09
Can't wait to see the end result!
Post by: jackiecanev2 on Fri, 14 August 2015, 19:49:39
you didn't create absolutely nothing.
This is golden. I couldn't have said it better myself, actually....
Cheers, CQ_Cumbers.
Also, diggin' on the R3 and the glossy alphas. You could probably get a lot of support for a Planck pack for this kit, given that Jack is selling plancks like crazy over on MD....
Post by: neverused on Fri, 14 August 2015, 21:54:21
This design of yours looks way too much with "Cospar" and I can't allow it to happen. If needed, I will revive "Cospar's" thread immediately - I don't want to do it as I'm already busy, and there's no need for that since manufacturing in the close future in not realistic. Also, my project is already scheduled and Signature Plastics and Massdrop are both aware of "Cospar" - which is not called like that anymore - and the keyset will happen.
Question:
Who the **** cares? If people want to buy this set, they will. If you don't have time to restart the set and/or claim this is a copy of yours (which is a copy of other work), then either get back on it and hope anyone else cares or sit back and let this one go forward. Yours is just as derivative as any other set and personally I like Classic Space better. The market will decide what it wants so give it a rest. This is a ****ing hobby.
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 14 August 2015, 21:59:38
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Fri, 14 August 2015, 22:05:32
Signature Plastics got back to us with answers to some (though not all) of the questions we had about this set. The information they gave us about the availability of different finishes for different key sizes is why the backspace key, and not the enter key, is yellow polycarbonate, and why the mods are semimatte and the alphas are glossy (although this does match how the blue cheese slopes in the original sets were matte, and how the gray plates were glossy). We still have some unanswered questions about font, colors, etc., so things are still very much up to change. We are also looking for community feedback and suggestions on the novelty keys and child deals. More information and new renders can be found in the OP.
The dynamic of the glossy and matte finishes are not something I though much about, but it could turn out really nice! I definitely think a uniform profile compliments the lego roots.
First thing that comes to mind is if you have a child deal of a blank 1u in that polycarb yellow (the escape key).... I think that would bring a lot attention to the GB! The Out Of The Vault R3 polycarb keys look insane :)
OP is handling this like a champ. Updated and formatted OP, new renders. #hype.
Can't wait to see the end result!
CQ_Cumbers already thanked you, but let me do it again; Thanks LSB :thumb:
you didn't create absolutely nothing.
This is golden. I couldn't have said it better myself, actually....
Cheers, CQ_Cumbers.
Also, diggin' on the R3 and the glossy alphas. You could probably get a lot of support for a Planck pack for this kit, given that Jack is selling plancks like crazy over on MD....
Ehy man, I could care less about your opinions on this... ;)
Post by: romevi on Fri, 14 August 2015, 22:17:28
Post by: jackiecanev2 on Fri, 14 August 2015, 22:32:48
Signature Plastics got back to us with answers to some (though not all) of the questions we had about this set. The information they gave us about the availability of different finishes for different key sizes is why the backspace key, and not the enter key, is yellow polycarbonate, and why the mods are semimatte and the alphas are glossy (although this does match how the blue cheese slopes in the original sets were matte, and how the gray plates were glossy). We still have some unanswered questions about font, colors, etc., so things are still very much up to change. We are also looking for community feedback and suggestions on the novelty keys and child deals. More information and new renders can be found in the OP.
The dynamic of the glossy and matte finishes are not something I though much about, but it could turn out really nice! I definitely think a uniform profile compliments the lego roots.
First thing that comes to mind is if you have a child deal of a blank 1u in that polycarb yellow (the escape key).... I think that would bring a lot attention to the GB! The Out Of The Vault R3 polycarb keys look insane :)OP is handling this like a champ. Updated and formatted OP, new renders. #hype.
Can't wait to see the end result!
CQ_Cumbers already thanked you, but let me do it again; Thanks LSB :thumb:you didn't create absolutely nothing.
This is golden. I couldn't have said it better myself, actually....
Cheers, CQ_Cumbers.
Also, diggin' on the R3 and the glossy alphas. You could probably get a lot of support for a Planck pack for this kit, given that Jack is selling plancks like crazy over on MD....
Ehy man, I could care less about your opinions on this... ;)
I think you missed the irony of the double negative. CQ_cumbers is doing awesome work.
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Fri, 14 August 2015, 22:36:00
I think you missed the irony of the double negative. CQ_cumbers is doing awesome work.
No no, I did :)
Right back on track!
Post by: livingspeedbump on Fri, 14 August 2015, 23:24:55
Now I feel like an ******* for pointing out the similarities. Keep doing your thing OP.
Hey, it was a fair observation, no harm no foul. Everything with all parties has been worked out and everyone was understanding. Didn't want this thread getting derailed and loosing focus, as focus will keep making this better and better :thumb:
Now I'm off to play with some legos, this set has me all worked up with anticipation ;D
Post by: blai5000 on Fri, 14 August 2015, 23:28:23
Post by: Oobly on Sat, 15 August 2015, 00:49:02
I agree..
I hope the others don't mind me sharing this here... great minds think alike?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/1EBxISn.png)
HYPE!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/b12zmh5.png)
Benny approves.
Thanks for being understanding and coming around and designing the banner, MiTo.
Post by: MiTo on Sat, 15 August 2015, 14:20:14
Thanks for being understanding and coming around and designing the banner, MiTo.
I was concerned that it was looking like another keyset, when it was just an outdated mockup.
Just want to help Oobly, it's not much but I hope you like it. I wish you the best of luck with the project which is looking very funny and original.
And above all, have fun.
- if you need, just shoot
Post by: Oobly on Tue, 18 August 2015, 08:38:55
[attach=1]
So far the collaboration is working fine:
[attach=2]
Just hope this doesn't happen:
[attach=3]
If it does, CQCumbers may have just have to do this:
[attach=4]
But I hope not... Anyway,
Spaceship!... Spaceship!... SPACESHIP!
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Tue, 18 August 2015, 09:16:08
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Tue, 18 August 2015, 09:25:34
Again, we plan on using a custom font, but this will come with additional costs in time and money. If any other set designers want to use the Eurostile-like font we have, which is represented by the google font Michroma in the mockups but is actually a line font, please talk with us. It is a versatile typeface with a history of usage in science fiction and modern design, from 2001: A Space Odyssey to the Valentine typewriter, and I think it could suit a variety of interesting past, current, and future keycap sets.
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Tue, 18 August 2015, 09:29:00
Unikitty rainbow mod pack?! :eek: ;D
Unikitty is awesome (Everything is awesome!), but it is in such a different style that it would probably better suit a seperate set. We are looking more towards other colors and symbols that were part of the original Classic Space theme, and would fit in comfortably with the blue, gray, and trans yellow of the base design.
Post by: 00zeRO on Tue, 18 August 2015, 21:14:17
Does SP do pbt SA?
I wish...and dare to dream...
Post by: 00zeRO on Tue, 18 August 2015, 21:26:57
First thing that comes to mind is if you have a child deal of a blank 1u in that polycarb yellow (the escape key).... I think that would bring a lot attention to the GB! The Out Of The Vault R3 polycarb keys look insane :)
+1 for the shout out, nrp.
Pasted for reference [mockup by Mogo]:
(http://i.imgur.com/KlMHrgv.png)
Post by: blcksqrrl on Tue, 18 August 2015, 21:39:31
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Sat, 22 August 2015, 07:55:00
Thank you, everyone, and please continue with your comments!
Post by: Purbles_ on Sat, 22 August 2015, 11:41:25
Post by: Oobly on Tue, 25 August 2015, 03:30:14
As a little taste to keep this set fresh in your minds, here's a little render of a Caps Lock using the font (semi-matte 1.75x cap with our custom version of a Eurostile-like font).
[attach=1]
It turns out SP can make 1x and 1.5x PBT SA profile Row 3 caps. You can even buy some right now on the PMK store....
However, they're left overs from a short one-off run made for a client. They cannot be doubleshot and SP doesn't have the holders to dyesub them either. So those few blanks are all you're going to be able to get from them in terms of SA PBT. Sorry.
So we're still aiming for doubleshot glossy ABS for the alphas and other caps, semi-matte for the modifiers, polycarbonate highlight caps in clear yellow (and possibly clear blue), some black on yellow novelties (including the smiley cap), front pad-printed spacebar, etc. All with our custom font.
Here's a pic of the current colour palette, minus the polycarbonate colours:
[attachimg=2]
Post by: Elrick on Sun, 30 August 2015, 07:07:14
Does SP do pbt SA?
I wish...and dare to dream...
Again this mania for SA PBT which would be nice but the immense number of failures they need to go through to get anything like a complete key-set done is beyond their intention or capabilities.
I'm one of those people that like plain old ABS with colours and maybe a fancy font (non Cherry like). Besides if you love PBT you have lots of choices to purchase off Imsto and Qtan quite easily.
So for now just concentrate on making this Key-set happen and keep it as much as possible to the original concept, so go and "Get Schwifty" on this as soon as possible.
Post by: Oobly on Mon, 31 August 2015, 04:45:09
We are designing SVG files for the legends, based on the specifications I found in a document from SP and with help from i3oilermaker and hasbaz who made the files for the Cherry Legend Replicas. I have requested detailed specifications, but have not had a response from Melissa yet. I've been waiting for this, since I don't want to go through all that work twice if there's something I need to change (also, my time available for this project is very limited, so I want to spend it well). I will update this thread with new 3D renders as the fonts get done.
There are still uncertainties surrounding the costs involved with using the custom font and how we'll manage these, but so far the concensus is that the font is a quintessential component of the set design and we'll do everything we can to make it so the set can use the font. This has become a bigger project than initially envisioned, but we're commited to getting this set design completed and overcoming the obstacles that prevent it from being "the best it can be". Here's a sample render of an F1 key, although the font may change a bit from this (shorter "arms" on the "F"):
[attach=1]
We're considering having a few other colours of clear polycarbonate novelty / highlight keycaps (blue from some of the later white spaceships with blue windscreens and red and green from the navigation / running lights present on many of the sets). Here are some test renders showing these colours (although they may be a little different from the ones SP produces), but be aware that these are simply renders to see the colours, not actual keys or kits for the set.
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
Post by: Elrick on Mon, 31 August 2015, 05:29:26
The current status if the design is: processing font issues...
There are still uncertainties surrounding the costs involved with using the custom font and how we'll manage these, but so far the concensus is that the font is a quintessential component of the set design and we'll do everything we can to make it so the set can use the font. This has become a bigger project than initially envisioned, but we're commited to getting this set design completed and overcoming the obstacles that prevent it from being "the best it can be". Here's a sample render of an F1 key, although the font may change a bit from this (shorter "arms" on the "F"):
(Attachment Link)
We're considering having a few other colours of clear polycarbonate novelty / highlight keycaps (blue from some of the later white spaceships with blue windscreens and red and green from the navigation / running lights present on many of the sets). Here are some test renders showing these colours (although they may be a little different from the ones SP produces), but be aware that these are simply renders to see the colours, not actual keys or kits for the set.
Like were you are heading on this venture. YES this could be a certainty here when you start seriously looking at making a truly unique Key-set by changing the traditional SP font with your new proposal.
On ya for trying to change our normal expectations here. Hope this becomes a reality quite soon :thumb: .
Post by: MiTo on Tue, 01 September 2015, 13:54:18
Post by: 00zeRO on Tue, 01 September 2015, 14:32:27
The current status if the design is: processing font issues...
We are designing SVG files for the legends, based on the specifications I found in a document from SP and with help from i3oilermaker and hasbaz who made the files for the Cherry Legend Replicas. I have requested detailed specifications, but have not had a response from Melissa yet. I've been waiting for this, since I don't want to go through all that work twice if there's something I need to change (also, my time available for this project is very limited, so I want to spend it well). I will update this thread with new 3D renders as the fonts get done.
There are still uncertainties surrounding the costs involved with using the custom font and how we'll manage these, but so far the concensus is that the font is a quintessential component of the set design and we'll do everything we can to make it so the set can use the font. This has become a bigger project than initially envisioned, but we're commited to getting this set design completed and overcoming the obstacles that prevent it from being "the best it can be". Here's a sample render of an F1 key, although the font may change a bit from this (shorter "arms" on the "F"):
(Attachment Link)
We're considering having a few other colours of clear polycarbonate novelty / highlight keycaps (blue from some of the later white spaceships with blue windscreens and red and green from the navigation / running lights present on many of the sets). Here are some test renders showing these colours (although they may be a little different from the ones SP produces), but be aware that these are simply renders to see the colours, not actual keys or kits for the set.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
+1 and kudos...this set will be supergreen!
(http://i.giphy.com/Hq2XDestpCXq8.gif)
Post by: livingspeedbump on Tue, 08 September 2015, 20:25:44
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Thu, 10 September 2015, 19:56:22
Also, I would like to ask for your opinion about making all modifier legends icons rather than text, as a possible backup plan to reduce legend costs if we cannot fund a whole keyboard. While we of course would like to have a new SA font available for every key, I want to know how happy you would be with the set if we did have to reuse Signature Plastics' icons on the modifier keys. Would the set become unusable for you? Would it make it significantly less appealing for set designers? Will it make "Classic Space" look less consistent, aesthetically? I'd like to know what you think.
If by any chance you are still in doubt, any issues with MiTo and Cospar have been resolved, and he has even created a banner image for "Classic Space" (Thanks!). Also, livingspeedbump's gifs are pretty cool.
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Thu, 10 September 2015, 21:44:29
I just want to let you know that I am back, and I really appreciate and take into account the feedback and comments you leave on this thread, so please continue doing so! The long time between updates just means that we have been working hard on sorting out legend specifications and funding in private; we may have news and/or renders for you soon, and we are as excited about things as (hopefully) you are. This set is pretty ambititious, combining polycarbonate keycaps, glossy ABS, and a new Eurostile like font (Check Oobly's posts and the OP for details, as he has been creating the legends and renders, and thanks to hashbaz for the Cherry legend SVGs), so development time will probably be longer, but hopefully we can create a keycap set that raises the bar for what can be done.
Also, I would like to ask for your opinion about making all modifier legends icons rather than text, as a possible backup plan to reduce legend costs if we cannot fund a whole keyboard. While we of course would like to have a new SA font available for every key, I want to know how happy you would be with the set if we did have to reuse Signature Plastics' icons on the modifier keys. Would the set become unusable for you? Would it make it significantly less appealing for set designers? Will it make "Classic Space" look less consistent, aesthetically? I'd like to know what you think.
If by any chance you are still in doubt, any issues with MiTo and Cospar have been resolved, and he has even created a banner image for "Classic Space" (Thanks!). Also, livingspeedbump's gifs are pretty cool.
This is all very cool to hear :thumb:
IMHO as there has been a big influx of SA sets over the last few months, it will be for the best that you take your time with this one.
On the topic of modifier legends; the community will be split between text and icons. People will chime in with their preference (for the record I'm all for icons) and others will call for both. At the end of the day it will be down to you guys to make an executive call on it and stick by your guns :)
Post by: tofgerl on Fri, 11 September 2015, 03:53:40
And yes, I spend all day using my keyboard, so I am willing to pay more to be really happy with it. It is my primary work tool. I also spend ridiculous amounts on my screen, mouse and computer. It makes my day better and my work easier.
Edit: Besides, the more generic the typeface becomes, the more the set will look like a failed honey clone, and no one wants that.
Post by: Jedi on Sat, 12 September 2015, 09:31:29
Might I suggest a translucent numpad for a full keyboard layout? That way you have the spirit of the space lego in the alphas and the mods and as a added "treat" you have the craziest extras set made just for the numpad. Kinda goes with just how Lego did that. Give you a dream and the cherry on top was the translucent cap.:)
Really like where the inspiration is with this IC. You're doing an amazing job sorting this all out front before GB. Take the time to do it right! We'll just keep banging on our F5 key till its ready :thumb:
Post by: tofgerl on Sat, 12 September 2015, 11:55:49
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Sat, 12 September 2015, 12:26:37
You know what? I think you should spend all the time you need, and we should spend all the money needed - cause this set is going to be so awesome that if you can't handle the price someone else will swoop in. This is going to sell bonkers either way, and there is no way to lower standards to fit into some theoretical narrow pricerange that in the end is going to matter far less than the feel of having these keycaps grace the wonder that is my keyboard.
And yes, I spend all day using my keyboard, so I am willing to pay more to be really happy with it. It is my primary work tool. I also spend ridiculous amounts on my screen, mouse and computer. It makes my day better and my work easier.
Edit: Besides, the more generic the typeface becomes, the more the set will look like a failed honey clone, and no one wants that.
We certainly do not plan on sacrificing on the typeface, but this font business will not be a quick one. We're still working on finishing the legend SVGs, producing better renders of the whole set in the new font, and getting an accurate estimate of costs from Signature Plastics, among other miscellaneous tasks. I think the custom font has the potential to be very useful for many set designers, but it does make it a much bigger project than the average keycap set. I'm probably the most impatient person here; it's tough waiting, but I hope as much as you do that we get something extraordinary out of it.
cswanic, if you want to take a look at what the plans are for the numpad right now, check out the Keyboard Layout Editor Link. Numpad novelties are something we will have to consider; I haven't thought of them before. Oobly's working on renders (and a lot of other interesting things), but when he's finished I hope you get a better idea of what is planned. If it isn't clear, this keycap set is probably his project as much as mine. livingspeedbump has been a great help, too.
I really do appreciate your comments!
Post by: Jedi on Sat, 12 September 2015, 13:45:40
Just ideas, not making any changes to suggest at all.
Post by: keyboardia1 on Sat, 12 September 2015, 14:23:01
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Sat, 12 September 2015, 14:38:28
Are there any plans for an international kit?
If you check the keyboard layout editor link in the first post, the current plans are for a basic ISO compatibility kit, but as of now language specific kits are not planned due to legend costs and demand. Of course, things may change, depending on how the custom font (which Oobly is still working on) works out. If you have any suggestions or alternatives for better international compatibility, I certainly would love to hear them.
Post by: showmeyourkitties on Sun, 13 September 2015, 07:45:26
Post by: tofgerl on Sun, 13 September 2015, 08:45:50
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Sun, 13 September 2015, 09:06:13
Once the fonts are fixed, running a supplemental kit shouldn't be that expensive.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but legend costs are per-key, so supplemental kits with legends would have to sell quite well in order to cover their legend costs.
If you're talking about the suggested LED windowed keycaps, that could work, but it may not look as clean and polycarbonate keycaps might be a good substitute. I think we will discuss it, though.
Post by: tofgerl on Sun, 13 September 2015, 09:12:56
Post by: Oobly on Sun, 13 September 2015, 13:14:40
We could probably offer blank windowed caps with the set, but we'll discuss this and other features at a later date as we define more kits for the set.
Multilanguage ISO kits can get large and expensive regardless. An example is the ISO kit for Carbon at 78 keys... Most people prefer a small ISO kit as not many are willing to pay for 40 or 50 keys that they're not going to use. A "universal" ISO at least fits their board physically and a lot of people are okay with a few legends being different for the sake of having a custom set on their board.
And then there's the extra legend costs for all the "special" characters like Ć and Ř.
I think the Retro SA ISO kit is probably the closest to what we'll be offering unless there's a lot of interest in a big kit like the Carbon one.
Post by: tofgerl on Sun, 13 September 2015, 13:19:34
Although I am toying with the idea of making my Planck use windows keys with LEDs for layer changing, so that if I hold 'lower' and press a key it should just change layers temporarily and not light the LED, but if I click and release 'lower' it should permanently change the layer and the LED should turn on... I have no need for that LED, but I REALLY want it ;)
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Sun, 13 September 2015, 16:04:46
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Mon, 28 September 2015, 18:57:28
These renders are relatively close to (but not exactly) what we imagine the final base set will look like. Many thanks to Oobly for them and of course for the custom legends - it's been a lot of work and we still have a while to go, but you should finally be able to get a good idea of what we are going for for the entire set. If you look closely, you can see that we are now using square rather than round ends on the font, thanks to a more detailed mold cutting method. If you're interested in using the Eurostile like font for one of your own keycap set designs, please message Oobly or me, as we would like to see this help other designers too. This custom font is a big project and will take more time, effort, and community support to accomplish, so please stay posted and look for an interest check soon.
This keycap set will probably take longer than most, so be patient, but the final result, I hope, will be worth it for everyone involved.
Post by: ideus on Mon, 28 September 2015, 19:13:59
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Mon, 28 September 2015, 19:36:28
Nice design and renders. I am not sure about the new legends. SA is more in the vintage style.
Well, Eurostile is vintage - it is was designed in the 1952 and is an icon of mid-century modern design. It was used in the keyboard of the Commodore PET, if you're looking for computing examples, and the Olivetti Valentine typewriter before that. Of course, the main reason for its use is that it was used in the original lego classic space sets, which can be considered pretty retro at this point, I think. It is futuristic, but it is also retro-futuristic, if you know what I mean. Eurostile is kind of timeless - I think it will be useful both for keysets inspired by mid-century modern design and for straight sci-fi designs, and it has seen a great deal of use in both, historically.
Post by: romevi on Mon, 28 September 2015, 20:48:13
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Mon, 28 September 2015, 20:55:51
Been out of the loop a bit. Is that silver? And transparent yellow caps?
The alphas are grey glossy ABS, and yes, there are transparent yellow "highlight" caps in the base set. The first post has specific details on the colors. There will probably be more transparent polycarbonate keys included in "color kits", but it depends on demand. I think blue, green, and red transparent polycarbonate seem likely outside of the base set.
Post by: njbair on Mon, 28 September 2015, 21:40:26
I would be interested in this set depending on timing, price, etc.
Post by: Elrick on Tue, 29 September 2015, 00:16:47
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/o8kUHzb.jpg?1)
That image alone will sell this key-set.
Never thought Silver and Blue could look so sexy like what you've shown here. Definitely should be put forth into the SP molds as soon as possible.
Great time to be alive to purchase some decent looking key-sets into the future. Good work.
Post by: romevi on Tue, 29 September 2015, 00:24:14
I have to agree. I wasn't fully on board until I saw that latest render. Now I'm totally on board, above board, and over board.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/o8kUHzb.jpg?1)
That image alone will sell this key-set.
Never thought Silver and Blue could look so sexy like what you've shown here. Definitely should be put forth into the SP molds as soon as possible.
Great time to be alive to purchase some decent looking key-sets into the future. Good work.
Post by: KaminKevCrew on Tue, 29 September 2015, 03:57:15
It helps that I've been keeping an eye out for an SA profile set of caps too.
These are looking amazing!
Post by: stoic-lemon on Tue, 29 September 2015, 04:05:27
Post by: tofgerl on Tue, 29 September 2015, 04:23:18
Also: Is this still going to be all row3? Because I prefer 1-1-2-3-4-3)
Post by: 00zeRO on Tue, 29 September 2015, 07:01:08
I'm sporting full wood for these caps. Take your time, OP, I can hold it...
Also: Is this still going to be all row3? Because I prefer 1-1-2-3-4-3)
I think row 3 only would be best since it would mimic lego uniformity of 'blocks'
Post by: Jedi on Tue, 29 September 2015, 08:12:12
Love that yellow clear you have on there. Still hoping for a novelty numpad based on those translucent colors. Keep up the great work!
Post by: TheMalacoda on Tue, 29 September 2015, 12:28:53
BUT I still need this set because it's just so ballsy! Custom fonts! Polycarbonate caps! Not to mention if we get anything remotely close to the renders it's just going to look amazing. This is the kind of innovation I want in my outrageously expensive hobby. I am looking forward to parting with a great sum of money in order to support your crazy keycap design endeavors.
Post by: saturnotaku on Tue, 29 September 2015, 12:37:19
Interest registered.
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Tue, 29 September 2015, 15:14:10
I'm sporting full wood for these caps. Take your time, OP, I can hold it...
Also: Is this still going to be all row3? Because I prefer 1-1-2-3-4-3)
I think row 3 only would be best since it would mimic lego uniformity of 'blocks'
This set will be all row 3, primarily for the reason mentioned, but the custom font we are developing can be used for any SA profile keys. For example, a sculpted SA set will still be able to use the legend molds we have created, but DSA or DCS keycap sets will not. If anyone has an SA set design, sculpted, uncountoured, whatever, that they would like to use this custom Eurostile-inspired font on, please message Oobly or me. A font interest check with more information should be up soon.
Post by: zabuza1997 on Tue, 29 September 2015, 15:15:33
Nooo.No uniform Row3 plsss!I'm sporting full wood for these caps. Take your time, OP, I can hold it...
Also: Is this still going to be all row3? Because I prefer 1-1-2-3-4-3)
I think row 3 only would be best since it would mimic lego uniformity of 'blocks'
This set will be all row 3, primarily for the reason mentioned, but the custom font we are developing can be used for any SA profile keys. For example, a sculpted SA set will still be able to use the legend molds we have created, but DSA or DCS keycap sets will not. If anyone has an SA set design, sculpted, uncountoured, whatever, that they would like to use this custom Eurostile-inspired font on, please message Oobly or me. A font interest check with more information should be up soon.
Post by: Elrick on Tue, 29 September 2015, 19:00:48
Nooo.No uniform Row3 plsss!
No probs BUT down go whining when these are released and you suddenly realized that SP doesn't make Sculpted Sets for Filco Minilas or any Keycool rubbish keyboards and alike.
You need to have a standard 87-TKL or 104-Full sized keyboards ONLY to enjoy the full lustre of a Sculpted Set of Keys.
Post by: FuriousGeorge on Tue, 29 September 2015, 22:45:05
Nooo.No uniform Row3 plsss!
No probs BUT down go whining when these are released and you suddenly realized that SP doesn't make Sculpted Sets for Filco Minilas or any Keycool rubbish keyboards and alike.
You need to have a standard 87-TKL or 104-Full sized keyboards ONLY to enjoy the full lustre of a Sculpted Set of Keys.
Uh, you can get fully sculpted sets for the Minila. It's the standard sized boards that SP doesn't make fully sculpted sets for yet.
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Tue, 29 September 2015, 23:07:18
Nooo.No uniform Row3 plsss!
No probs BUT down go whining when these are released and you suddenly realized that SP doesn't make Sculpted Sets for Filco Minilas or any Keycool rubbish keyboards and alike.
You need to have a standard 87-TKL or 104-Full sized keyboards ONLY to enjoy the full lustre of a Sculpted Set of Keys.
Uh, you can get fully sculpted sets for the Minila. It's the standard sized boards that SP doesn't make fully sculpted sets for yet.
Oh snap! Bros, let's not derail another thread with another row 4 shift debate :thumb:
Post by: Oobly on Wed, 30 September 2015, 02:37:59
Post by: Elrick on Wed, 30 September 2015, 05:42:53
I also like sculpted SA profile, but this set will be all Row 3, in keeping with the theme of homogeneous blocks of ABS plastic.
YES, never let a tiny few prevent a brilliant design from going forth :thumb: .
Don't care whether it's Row 3 or Sculpted, just appreciate the key-set for what it is - another unique example of a cherished memory captured within key-caps.
Post by: 00zeRO on Thu, 08 October 2015, 13:34:39
Post by: Oobly on Thu, 08 October 2015, 16:43:34
Anything new to report?
Putting together everything we need to start a fundraising effort for the new font for SA caps... Going to have to get that done before we can get this set off the ground, unfortunately.
I've also spent a lot of time on another SA profile related issue which we hope to have news on soon, so we haven't been idle on related issues, but nothing much new about the actual design of this set recently.
Thank you for your interest :)
Post by: 00zeRO on Thu, 08 October 2015, 16:57:23
Anything new to report?
Putting together everything we need to start a fundraising effort for the new font for SA caps... Going to have to get that done before we can get this set off the ground, unfortunately.
I've also spent a lot of time on another SA profile related issue which we hope to have news on soon, so we haven't been idle on related issues, but nothing much new about the actual design of this set recently.
Thank you for your interest :)
New font you say? Cool.
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Thu, 08 October 2015, 23:00:41
Anything new to report?
Putting together everything we need to start a fundraising effort for the new font for SA caps... Going to have to get that done before we can get this set off the ground, unfortunately.
I've also spent a lot of time on another SA profile related issue which we hope to have news on soon, so we haven't been idle on related issues, but nothing much new about the actual design of this set recently.
Thank you for your interest :)
New font you say? Cool.
More like, dem row 4 shifts :cool: I know it's going to come about sooner or later!
Post by: Steezus on Thu, 08 October 2015, 23:05:39
Anything new to report?
Putting together everything we need to start a fundraising effort for the new font for SA caps... Going to have to get that done before we can get this set off the ground, unfortunately.
I've also spent a lot of time on another SA profile related issue which we hope to have news on soon, so we haven't been idle on related issues, but nothing much new about the actual design of this set recently.
Thank you for your interest :)
New font you say? Cool.
More like, dem row 4 shifts :cool: I know it's going to come about sooner or later!
I know Bunny and others have been quite hard on developing r4 shifts, in fact they're planning on having it ready for penumbra r2.
Post by: Niomosy on Fri, 09 October 2015, 01:05:49
Post by: tofgerl on Fri, 09 October 2015, 03:30:11
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Fri, 09 October 2015, 06:29:08
I don't understand why all these PBT fans don't just start a GB for some dyesub caps.
Because Dyesub eliminates color scheme possibilities, such as the modifiers/novelties for this set...
Post by: tofgerl on Fri, 09 October 2015, 06:32:19
Post by: My_Thoughts on Fri, 09 October 2015, 08:29:55
Post by: Steezus on Fri, 09 October 2015, 09:22:47
This kit will be well worth the wait :)
Perfection takes time, secretly I'm happy that nice sets like this take awhile otherwise I wouldn't have the funds to buy them all. :p
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Fri, 09 October 2015, 11:52:36
All we need now is for them to be able to double shot PBT (and add more PBT colors) and we'll be set ;)
I don't understand why all these PBT fans don't just start a GB for some dyesub caps.
SP don't do PBT SA keycaps. They have some in the keyshop, but it was a custom run that they will not be repeating.
Because Dyesub eliminates color scheme possibilities, such as the modifiers/novelties for this set...
Some of them, yes. So what?
Because people dream of the perfect combination of colors, profile and materials.
Anyways, back on topic, still intently following this thread! I eagerly await your next updates CQ_Cumbers and Oobly :thumb:
Post by: ironpup on Fri, 09 October 2015, 11:58:16
Post by: Steezus on Fri, 09 October 2015, 13:16:16
Post by: Niomosy on Fri, 09 October 2015, 13:17:14
Some of them, yes. So what?
Your only options with SA keycaps are doubleshots or pad printing per SP documentation. SP does not dyesub SA keycaps.
Post by: tofgerl on Fri, 09 October 2015, 13:21:15
Post by: Steezus on Fri, 09 October 2015, 13:28:20
I don't care if you PBT guys do SA, DCS or whatever. Just STOP COMPLAINING IN SA THREADS!
I don't see anybody complaining at all. In fact all I've seen in this thread is people asking if SA PBT is possible, it's just a discussion. People have their preferences and they are entitled to them. After all if I'm going to be purchasing a set I would prefer PBT over ABS mainly due to the fact that PBT caps last a lot longer and don't shine nearly as fast.
Post by: Elrick on Fri, 09 October 2015, 18:45:49
I don't care if you PBT guys do SA, DCS or whatever. Just STOP COMPLAINING IN SA THREADS!
I've got GREAT news for all the PBT addicts, go here and buy these instead:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/elemento-pbt-dcs-keycap-set (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/elemento-pbt-dcs-keycap-set)
There you go, so don't go complaining here and now I wish this was PBT because I just gave you a link to go there and buy some, enough said already.
This is a beaut SA Profile key-set made in ABS hence for us lot here that love this, looking forward to it finally going Live :thumb: .
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Fri, 09 October 2015, 20:04:09
I don't care if you PBT guys do SA, DCS or whatever. Just STOP COMPLAINING IN SA THREADS!
I've got GREAT news for all the PBT addicts, go here and buy these instead:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/elemento-pbt-dcs-keycap-set (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/elemento-pbt-dcs-keycap-set)
There you go, so don't go complaining here and now I wish this was PBT because I just gave you a link to go there and buy some, enough said already.
This is a beaut SA Profile key-set made in ABS hence for us lot here that love this, looking forward to it finally going Live :thumb: .
This set will be in ABS, because SA Row 3 in ABS best mimics the feel and texture of lego bricks. The plans include alphas with a glossy finish for the same reason. The set design we have now, if the community can get it made, is I think as close to a perfect tribute to lego Classic Space as can be done, and I think most of the proposed changes to PBT or other profiles and finishes, even if possible, would likely make the set less authentic and desirable, not more. As this keycap set gets closer and closer to production, less things are up in the air, and if you look at the discussions that were going on in the earlier pages of this thread, you can see some good reasons for why the set is the way it is now.
SA PBT dyesub is not possible at the moment, and while it would open up many possibilities for set design, it's not a goal of this set in particular. The possibility has been extensively discussed, among the community and with Signature Plastics, and they just do not have the capability to dyesub PBT keycaps in SA profile (The limited run that they will not repeat was blank), and likely will not for a while. For now, I think the community would benefit more from focusing on other efforts. A new font for SA, like the one Oobly is working on now (which this set will be the first one to use), would be the best way to improve design variety and flexibility, in my opinion. Look for the interest check soon!
Alternate kits will probably be relatively limited. This set is using a new, custom made font, which is an enormous project in terms of time, effort, and money. When each new legend costs $50 to make, niche layouts requiring nonstandard legends would need enormous of support in order to be feasible, and even if the support was there the extra work required could be prohibitive. If they do not require extra molds, other layouts might be possible, but again would require more time, effort, and support, and we'll have to pick and choose where to focus - and for now our focus is primarily on the custom font.
Oobly probably knows more about the status of row 4 shifts, but that conversation might be better had elsewhere.
Post by: Niomosy on Fri, 09 October 2015, 20:31:54
Post by: Elrick on Fri, 09 October 2015, 20:57:47
Alternate kits will probably be relatively limited. This set is using a new, custom made font, which is an enormous project in terms of time, effort, and money. When each new legend costs $50 to make, niche layouts requiring nonstandard legends would need enormous of support in order to be feasible, and even if the support was there the extra work required could be prohibitive. If they do not require extra molds, other layouts might be possible, but again would require more time, effort, and support, and we'll have to pick and choose where to focus - and for now our focus is primarily on the custom font.
The minute I saw your first design with your new Font being used, I fell in love with it.
It suits it's overall design perfectly hence we need another key-set that stands out more than just with a different Colour-way. Plus bringing back childhood with the Lego Bricks is truly sublime, like taking a trip back in time to recapture that overall feeling of playing with them.
Post by: Supergeek on Sat, 10 October 2015, 13:10:10
Post by: harlw on Sat, 10 October 2015, 17:11:17
If I can help in any way you know where to find me :D
Post by: MikeTheTiger on Tue, 13 October 2015, 02:56:58
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 19 October 2015, 13:12:33
Post by: zip_ana_dublecup on Thu, 22 October 2015, 18:14:01
Post by: slwb on Thu, 22 October 2015, 22:30:30
Also wanted to let you know that if you don't include special caps with the lego man head on them I will track you down and make you walk barefoot across a pile of legos.
Post by: harlw on Thu, 22 October 2015, 22:41:42
Just wanted to express my interest in this set.
Also wanted to let you know that if you don't include special caps with the lego man head on them I will track you down and make you walk barefoot across a pile of legos.
Whoa! Macabre!
Post by: fostermatt on Fri, 23 October 2015, 00:47:13
Post by: Pdub on Sun, 25 October 2015, 12:59:26
Post by: MikeTheTiger on Sun, 25 October 2015, 14:17:27
Post by: Oobly on Sun, 25 October 2015, 15:45:41
Have you given any thought to a different font?
Not quite sure what you mean. SP only has Gorton Modified as an option for doubleshot SA profile caps right now. We're going to try to get molds made for a new font.
We've chosen a version of Eurostile Extended as it's used on the spaceships for the registration and in the instruction booklets for these sets, so it matches the inspiration well. It's also a very good "foil" to Gorton modified for SA keycaps, since it's both a classic font and "modern", so it can be used for sets that Gorton doesn't suit. I think it helps give many more options for designers.
From the OP: "This keycap set will also introduce a new font for SA profile legends, based on the Eurostile used in original Classic Space sets, which will not only be authentic but hopefully also be helpful to many other designers."
We'll be starting thread soon all about the new font as we need to raise funds to get SP to cut the legend molds for it. It will be usable in future for any SA profile set design. We will entertain discussions about the font choice itself in that thread, but we've got our hearts set on this particular font as a starting point, so it'll have to be a very persuasive discussion for it to be changed to something else. Most other alternative keyboard fonts currently used are simply too similar in their use cases to Gorton Modified. Even Futura is not quite "different enough" IMHO to warrant a new set of molds.
Thank you, everybody for your patience. Even though we're not currently actively working on the design of this set itself, we're laying the groundwork to (hopefully) make it a groundbreaking set.
Post by: Elrick on Sun, 25 October 2015, 20:33:16
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/o8kUHzb.jpg?1)
Every time I see your key-set render it gives me goose bumps all over, the shades used are so consistent with Lego and your font is perfect.
- This is one key-set, every self respecting geekhacker should own without question.
Post by: DrCr4nK on Sun, 25 October 2015, 20:49:40
Post by: MikeTheTiger on Sun, 25 October 2015, 21:16:16
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/o8kUHzb.jpg?1)
Every time I see your key-set render it gives me goose bumps all over, the shades used are so consistent with Lego and your font is perfect.
- This is one key-set, every self respecting geekhacker should own without question.
Without a doubt.
Post by: ideus on Sun, 25 October 2015, 21:34:48
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/o8kUHzb.jpg?1)
Every time I see your key-set render it gives me goose bumps all over, the shades used are so consistent with Lego and your font is perfect.
- This is one key-set, every self respecting geekhacker should own without question.
Mr. Hype attacked, again.
Post by: Clicker on Thu, 29 October 2015, 13:02:56
[attachimg=1]
Post by: 00zeRO on Thu, 29 October 2015, 13:10:45
I got this cap in my SP grab bag. Reminded me of this Interest Check. The colors look extremely close in person, better than the picture shows. I'm definitely in if this goes ahead.
(Attachment Link)
Perfect...
Post by: W_hinklebottom on Thu, 29 October 2015, 13:47:40
Post by: gabba-gool on Thu, 29 October 2015, 15:04:11
Post by: Clicker on Thu, 29 October 2015, 15:47:33
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Thu, 29 October 2015, 22:51:48
Is anyone else buying Legos while they wait for this?
Bro, it's LEGO... Stop that legos B.S. right this instant! :p
Post by: My_Thoughts on Fri, 30 October 2015, 04:56:42
Is anyone else buying Legos while they wait for this?
*Lego*
Post by: romevi on Fri, 30 October 2015, 08:18:43
*LEGO*Is anyone else buying Legos while they wait for this?
*Lego*
Post by: Butter on Fri, 30 October 2015, 11:33:45
Post by: MoJoSto on Tue, 03 November 2015, 13:45:17
Post by: pyrolovesmoney on Tue, 03 November 2015, 13:47:19
Post by: MikeTheTiger on Tue, 03 November 2015, 14:07:03
Did this get produced/sold? Is it still available?
Not yet...it's an "interest check".
Post by: gabba-gool on Tue, 03 November 2015, 17:40:06
*LEGO*Is anyone else buying Legos while they wait for this?
*Lego*
I actually know this. **** I am so embarrassed.
Post by: terminallytrill on Wed, 04 November 2015, 02:49:27
Post by: Zanduby on Wed, 04 November 2015, 10:42:53
Post by: Oobly on Wed, 04 November 2015, 14:29:12
Newest render looks amazing! Alternate colors for specialty keys should be green, blue and red to match the other space crews from the old sets.
Green?
I believe these were all the minifig colours for these sets:
(http://www.x-brick.de/other/minifigs/classic_space.jpg)
Now that the Row 4 Shifts are sorted the font will get more of my time... this is still very much alive and kicking, step by step we'll get there :) I received some colour chips:
[attach=1]
The red is just right, as is the transparent yellow. The blue and grey are as close as we can get with the currently active SP colours. I've ordered some more whites and yellows to see if we can get even closer than WFK and YCH. Surprisingly, WFK is a bit too cold / blue and the yellow should have just a hair less green / more red. They're still very close, but maybe we can get even closer :)
Post by: Zanduby on Wed, 04 November 2015, 14:44:05
Post by: Oobly on Wed, 04 November 2015, 14:52:50
Right, i have the newer Exo Suit (http://shop.lego.com/en-US/Exo-Suit-21109?fromListing=listing) that comes with green guys.
Ah, okay, gotcha.
Post by: harlw on Mon, 09 November 2015, 11:55:57
Post by: Oobly on Mon, 09 November 2015, 15:34:23
Any thoughts on how/where you are going to run this?
The current plan has been Massdrop, but only after we've attempted to get the font produced. I'll be starting a thread on the font before end of November, and if all goes well, we'll go forward with this set as soon as possible. At that point we'll also evaluate the GB options again.
I've ordered some more color chips to match the grey, white and yellow better. The red, blue, black and clear yellow are set, as they are definitely the closest matching colours in SP's active list.
Interestingly enough, LEGO changed a number of the colours used around 2004 or so, so I've had to dig out some old LEGO pieces to compare with.
Post by: harlw on Mon, 09 November 2015, 16:44:27
Any thoughts on how/where you are going to run this?
The current plan has been Massdrop, but only after we've attempted to get the font produced. I'll be starting a thread on the font before end of November, and if all goes well, we'll go forward with this set as soon as possible. At that point we'll also evaluate the GB options again.
I've ordered some more color chips to match the grey, white and yellow better. The red, blue, black and clear yellow are set, as they are definitely the closest matching colours in SP's active list.
Interestingly enough, LEGO changed a number of the colours used around 2004 or so, so I've had to dig out some old LEGO pieces to compare with.
If you do run Massdrop, maybe this could be the first thisiscamper/harlw mock-up madness collab :D
...I suppose it could be either way ::)
Post by: 00zeRO on Mon, 09 November 2015, 16:47:41
Any thoughts on how/where you are going to run this?
The current plan has been Massdrop, but only after we've attempted to get the font produced. I'll be starting a thread on the font before end of November, and if all goes well, we'll go forward with this set as soon as possible. At that point we'll also evaluate the GB options again.
I've ordered some more color chips to match the grey, white and yellow better. The red, blue, black and clear yellow are set, as they are definitely the closest matching colours in SP's active list.
Interestingly enough, LEGO changed a number of the colours used around 2004 or so, so I've had to dig out some old LEGO pieces to compare with.
If you do run Massdrop, maybe this could be the first thisiscamper/harlw mock-up madness collab :D
...I suppose it could be either way ::)
+1
Post by: thesiscamper on Tue, 10 November 2015, 05:04:16
Any thoughts on how/where you are going to run this?
The current plan has been Massdrop, but only after we've attempted to get the font produced. I'll be starting a thread on the font before end of November, and if all goes well, we'll go forward with this set as soon as possible. At that point we'll also evaluate the GB options again.
I've ordered some more color chips to match the grey, white and yellow better. The red, blue, black and clear yellow are set, as they are definitely the closest matching colours in SP's active list.
Interestingly enough, LEGO changed a number of the colours used around 2004 or so, so I've had to dig out some old LEGO pieces to compare with.
If you do run Massdrop, maybe this could be the first thisiscamper/harlw mock-up madness collab :D
...I suppose it could be either way ::)
Sure! Although Oobly already has nice 3D renders for the set... I suppose a Manly Unicorn collaboration will be the real madness :D
Post by: harlw on Tue, 10 November 2015, 10:01:53
Any thoughts on how/where you are going to run this?
The current plan has been Massdrop, but only after we've attempted to get the font produced. I'll be starting a thread on the font before end of November, and if all goes well, we'll go forward with this set as soon as possible. At that point we'll also evaluate the GB options again.
I've ordered some more color chips to match the grey, white and yellow better. The red, blue, black and clear yellow are set, as they are definitely the closest matching colours in SP's active list.
Interestingly enough, LEGO changed a number of the colours used around 2004 or so, so I've had to dig out some old LEGO pieces to compare with.
If you do run Massdrop, maybe this could be the first thisiscamper/harlw mock-up madness collab :D
...I suppose it could be either way ::)
Sure! Although Oobly already has nice 3D renders for the set... I suppose a Manly Unicorn collaboration will be the real madness :D
Well, if you trust me I don't think you'll regret it. :D
I mostly want to display your vnice work better. It's hard to explain what I mean, I would have to just show you.
Post by: 00zeRO on Tue, 10 November 2015, 10:37:07
Any thoughts on how/where you are going to run this?
The current plan has been Massdrop, but only after we've attempted to get the font produced. I'll be starting a thread on the font before end of November, and if all goes well, we'll go forward with this set as soon as possible. At that point we'll also evaluate the GB options again.
I've ordered some more color chips to match the grey, white and yellow better. The red, blue, black and clear yellow are set, as they are definitely the closest matching colours in SP's active list.
Interestingly enough, LEGO changed a number of the colours used around 2004 or so, so I've had to dig out some old LEGO pieces to compare with.
If you do run Massdrop, maybe this could be the first thisiscamper/harlw mock-up madness collab :D
...I suppose it could be either way ::)
Sure! Although Oobly already has nice 3D renders for the set... I suppose a Manly Unicorn collaboration will be the real madness :D
Well, if you trust me I don't think you'll regret it. :D
I mostly want to display your vnice work better. It's hard to explain what I mean, I would have to just show you.
Maybe link the banner you created for OotV Series III?
Post by: harlw on Tue, 10 November 2015, 11:15:11
Sure! Although Oobly already has nice 3D renders for the set... I suppose a Manly Unicorn collaboration will be the real madness :D
Well, if you trust me I don't think you'll regret it. :D
I mostly want to display your vnice work better. It's hard to explain what I mean, I would have to just show you.
Maybe link the banner you created for OotV Series III?
Here you go http://i.imgur.com/dhzv0DO.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/dhzv0DO.jpg)
Post by: thesiscamper on Tue, 10 November 2015, 12:22:24
Ahh yes I remember this, this is awesome! Definitely looking forward to a collaboration. :)
Sure! Although Oobly already has nice 3D renders for the set... I suppose a Manly Unicorn collaboration will be the real madness :D
Well, if you trust me I don't think you'll regret it. :D
I mostly want to display your vnice work better. It's hard to explain what I mean, I would have to just show you.
Maybe link the banner you created for OotV Series III?
Here you go http://i.imgur.com/dhzv0DO.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/dhzv0DO.jpg)
Post by: 00zeRO on Tue, 10 November 2015, 12:23:01
Sure! Although Oobly already has nice 3D renders for the set... I suppose a Manly Unicorn collaboration will be the real madness :D
Well, if you trust me I don't think you'll regret it. :D
I mostly want to display your vnice work better. It's hard to explain what I mean, I would have to just show you.
Maybe link the banner you created for OotV Series III?
Here you go http://i.imgur.com/dhzv0DO.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/dhzv0DO.jpg)
^ This guy is a Graphics Guru; a Rendering Rockstar...you get the point. :))
Post by: Waateva on Tue, 10 November 2015, 12:45:24
Sure! Although Oobly already has nice 3D renders for the set... I suppose a Manly Unicorn collaboration will be the real madness :D
Well, if you trust me I don't think you'll regret it. :D
I mostly want to display your vnice work better. It's hard to explain what I mean, I would have to just show you.
Maybe link the banner you created for OotV Series III?
Here you go http://i.imgur.com/dhzv0DO.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/dhzv0DO.jpg)
Love the look of that banner, its too bad the sale never went forward.
Post by: trenzafeeds on Tue, 10 November 2015, 20:29:08
Post by: Glenmael on Tue, 10 November 2015, 20:46:34
Idea just popped into my head: if krytone would be willing to do some of his lego artisans as bonuses with this keyset that would be super cool. (like how binge did them with Zealios and they're being done with skidata).
That is genius!
Post by: Zanduby on Thu, 12 November 2015, 15:51:54
Post by: zoggynog on Sun, 29 November 2015, 16:28:06
First off, as currently designed I am in for a set. Great job on everything already done. A few opinions (since you asked for them):
1. Color is going to be key here. Many folks will want to build keyboard cases form Lego to house this keycap set.
Lego blue has been blue since always. Light grey however, had a major overhaul in 2003. I don't know what your limitations are color match wise, but I hope you do your best to match to the "old light grey". It is a more yellowed, and very 80's color compared to the "new light (blue) grey".
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7484/16296829032_b312497c98.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qQ6vuU) (https://flic.kr/p/qQ6vuU) by Ryan H. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/126975831@N07/), on Flickr
http://www.newelementary.com/2015/03/lego-colour-chart-reference.html (http://www.newelementary.com/2015/03/lego-colour-chart-reference.html) is an awesome reference by the blog New Elementary. Pantone, RGB, and CMYK are detailed for each color.
2. The font usage is certainly tricky. On a lego model, I am only aware of it being used on a blue brick in white for ship names. It tends to be more bold. I see why you are making the choices you are, just something to think about. Have you tried white on the grey keys? Doubleshot trans yellow?
3. I think the classic space logo in lieu of the WIN key would be a more attractive option. It would allow for a Trans Yellow spacebar or a LL-928 logo. Of course, this is all modifier territory.
4. Artisan keys would be great!
5. Trans-Yellow modifier keycaps are looking really good. I saw someone complain they weren't neon enough. That person is confusing their blacktron II with their classic space/blacktron I.
6. Up/down/left/right arrows would be a whole lot cooler if they matched the exact look of the arrows used on LL-928.
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/XS0AAOSwpdpVXIGw/$_35.JPG)
7. Don't forget the use of a yellow/black/yellow theme when considering modifiers. This sort of striping shows up in several classic space sets. Might make for a cool numpad or function key layout. Id suggest trans-red over solid red as well based on the previous modifier mockups.
Most of my thoughts stem from the aesthetics of the Galaxy Explorer (LL-928) http://brickset.com/sets/497-1 (http://brickset.com/sets/497-1), the crown jewel of Classic Space.
Post by: Glenmael on Sun, 29 November 2015, 16:48:50
My thoughts as a novice mech keyboard guy, enthusiast lego guy (AFOL).
First off, as currently designed I am in for a set. Great job on everything already done. A few opinions (since you asked for them):
1. Color is going to be key here. Many folks will want to build keyboard cases form Lego to house this keycap set.
Lego blue has been blue since always. Light grey however, had a major overhaul in 2003. I don't know what your limitations are color match wise, but I hope you do your best to match to the "old light grey". It is a more yellowed, and very 80's color compared to the "new light (blue) grey".
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7484/16296829032_b312497c98.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qQ6vuU) (https://flic.kr/p/qQ6vuU) by Ryan H. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/126975831@N07/), on Flickr
http://www.newelementary.com/2015/03/lego-colour-chart-reference.html (http://www.newelementary.com/2015/03/lego-colour-chart-reference.html) is an awesome reference by the blog New Elementary. Pantone, RGB, and CMYK are detailed for each color.
2. The font usage is certainly tricky. On a lego model, I am only aware of it being used on a blue brick in white for ship names. It tends to be more bold. I see why you are making the choices you are, just something to think about. Have you tried white on the grey keys? Doubleshot trans yellow?
3. I think the classic space logo in lieu of the WIN key would be a more attractive option. It would allow for a Trans Yellow spacebar or a LL-928 logo. Of course, this is all modifier territory.
4. Artisan keys would be great!
5. Trans-Yellow modifier keycaps are looking really good. I saw someone complain they weren't neon enough. That person is confusing their blacktron II with their classic space/blacktron I.
6. Up/down/left/right arrows would be a whole lot cooler if they matched the exact look of the arrows used on LL-928.Show Image(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/XS0AAOSwpdpVXIGw/$_35.JPG)
7. Don't forget the use of a yellow/black/yellow theme when considering modifiers. This sort of striping shows up in several classic space sets. Might make for a cool numpad or function key layout. Id suggest trans-red over solid red as well based on the previous modifier mockups.
Most of my thoughts stem from the aesthetics of the Galaxy Explorer (LL-928) http://brickset.com/sets/497-1 (http://brickset.com/sets/497-1), the crown jewel of Classic Space.
Great first post, you certainly seem to know your lego :)
Just touching on the color options, you can get a rough understanding of what can be used by heading over to http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/ then:
1. Click on any key, i.e. Numlock
2. Click on Color Swatches -> Signature Plastics ABS
3. Colors will appear (and are selectable) below
:thumb:
Post by: livingspeedbump on Sun, 29 November 2015, 22:04:52
Sure! Although Oobly already has nice 3D renders for the set... I suppose a Manly Unicorn collaboration will be the real madness :D
Well, if you trust me I don't think you'll regret it. :D
I mostly want to display your vnice work better. It's hard to explain what I mean, I would have to just show you.
Maybe link the banner you created for OotV Series III?
Here you go http://i.imgur.com/dhzv0DO.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/dhzv0DO.jpg)
^ This guy is a Graphics Guru; a Rendering Rockstar...you get the point. :))
Thesiscamper has quite the 3D chops too http://input.club/
Yeah, that K-Type keyboard on the page, is a render =O
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Sun, 29 November 2015, 22:34:16
My thoughts as a novice mech keyboard guy, enthusiast lego guy (AFOL).
First off, as currently designed I am in for a set. Great job on everything already done. A few opinions (since you asked for them):
1. Color is going to be key here. Many folks will want to build keyboard cases form Lego to house this keycap set.
Lego blue has been blue since always. Light grey however, had a major overhaul in 2003. I don't know what your limitations are color match wise, but I hope you do your best to match to the "old light grey". It is a more yellowed, and very 80's color compared to the "new light (blue) grey".
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7484/16296829032_b312497c98.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qQ6vuU) (https://flic.kr/p/qQ6vuU) by Ryan H. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/126975831@N07/), on Flickr
http://www.newelementary.com/2015/03/lego-colour-chart-reference.html (http://www.newelementary.com/2015/03/lego-colour-chart-reference.html) is an awesome reference by the blog New Elementary. Pantone, RGB, and CMYK are detailed for each color.
2. The font usage is certainly tricky. On a lego model, I am only aware of it being used on a blue brick in white for ship names. It tends to be more bold. I see why you are making the choices you are, just something to think about. Have you tried white on the grey keys? Doubleshot trans yellow?
3. I think the classic space logo in lieu of the WIN key would be a more attractive option. It would allow for a Trans Yellow spacebar or a LL-928 logo. Of course, this is all modifier territory.
4. Artisan keys would be great!
5. Trans-Yellow modifier keycaps are looking really good. I saw someone complain they weren't neon enough. That person is confusing their blacktron II with their classic space/blacktron I.
6. Up/down/left/right arrows would be a whole lot cooler if they matched the exact look of the arrows used on LL-928.Show Image(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/XS0AAOSwpdpVXIGw/$_35.JPG)
7. Don't forget the use of a yellow/black/yellow theme when considering modifiers. This sort of striping shows up in several classic space sets. Might make for a cool numpad or function key layout. Id suggest trans-red over solid red as well based on the previous modifier mockups.
Most of my thoughts stem from the aesthetics of the Galaxy Explorer (LL-928) http://brickset.com/sets/497-1 (http://brickset.com/sets/497-1), the crown jewel of Classic Space.
It's great to see other Lego fans on geekhack, and we always appreciate feedback, so thank you for the thoughtful post!
1. Color is certainly one of the most important parts of the set design, and Oobly is color matching chips of Signature Plastics' current inventory of ABS colors with bricks from the original 1980s sets (so old light gray). You can see a photograph of some of the chips below - most are close enough that I don't think most people will notice the difference. I have updated the plastic colors in the OP. Also keep in mind that this set will use a glossy finish, like lego bricks, on the alphas, rather than the semi-matte finish most keycap sets use. I actually did use the New Elementary color reference when choosing the colors in the original keyboard layout editor mockup, and the fact that the actual chips of those colors match so closely to the bricks is a tribute to the accuracy of their charts.
(http://i.imgur.com/n9k1RSN.png)
2. You are right about the font use on the original Lego sets, but there are practical concerns for keycaps. I think most people would prefer legends on the alphas. White on light gray is not nearly as legible here, and there are more later Lego sets (not Classic Space) with black stickers on gray bricks than white stickers on gray bricks. I'm not aware of any precedent for doubleshot trans yellow text, but we will try it in renders. We have thickened the font since making the render at the top of the thread, by the way, which is a bit outdated as recently we have been working especially hard on the font in order to get it into a form usable by Signature Plastics. It will later be made available for other keycap sets to use; Eurostile is a very commonly used font in science fiction and mid-century modern design in general, see the Valentine typewriter (http://www.massmadesoul.com/olivetti-valentine/) and HAL 9000's screens (http://typesetinthefuture.com/fontspots-eurostile/).
3. You can see on the keyboard layout editor mockup (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/53c27b409293bade6f98) that the Classic Space logo WIN key is included in the novelties kit, as is a LL 928 logo key. The transparent yellow spacebar is included in the alternate modifiers set. If you have suggestions on changing how the child sets are organized, though, I'd love to hear it.
4. I don't know how to do a partership with artisan keycaps, but I'll ask Oobly and livingspeedbump about it.
5. Well, the transparent yellow Signature Plastics has is slightly darker than lego transparent yellow, but no, we are not doing the transparent neon green of blacktron II here.
6. I'm working on it! Keep in mind that it is difficult to get legends exact, though, because of the limitations of the mold cutting machines.
7. We have plans regarding the yellow/black/yellow theme, but I'd prefer to keep the set, or at least the base version, mostly in a few colors really evocative of Classic Space. While there were many colors used in the original sets, most were used in small quantities, and when people think of Classic Space they tend think of the gray, blue, and trans yellow. If you look at Neo Classic Space (https://www.flickr.com/groups/neoclassicspace/pool/) MOCs (I know they're not official, but they are a good representation of what people remember most about the original sets), smaller creations may lack yellow or black striping and trans green or trans red lights, but few will omit gray, blue, or trans yellow. I think we may create a "highlight key" set with the spacebar, backspace key, and escape key in trans blue, trans red, and trans green, though.
Post by: neverused on Sun, 29 November 2015, 23:30:07
Post by: Oobly on Mon, 30 November 2015, 04:17:10
I totally agree that colour matching is very important. Thank you for the reference, I have been aware of the changes in colours and have been using some well-preserved 1980's LEGO that I have as reference. Fortunately, Signature Plastics has a large range of colours, so I've been able to find very close matches. Some of the RGB values are a little off, either on the LEGO reference charts or the SP ABS charts, so the only way to get a perfect match is plastic to plastic. The most difficult colours to match have been yellow, white and grey. My first choices for the blue, red and black matched beautifully. I assumed the white was "whiter" than it really is, with WFK being too "pure white" with too much blue. WCK matches best. WFM and WFO are too dark, although WFO is a decent tone match. WCK is a little more "yellow" than the best preserved white pieces I can find, but it matches very well for the ever so slightly yellowed pieces and is still the closest match, even for brand new white pieces. For the grey, GGM is too "blue" and a bit too light, GTH is closest to the older yellower grey, with GTG also very close, but a little too dark. For yellow, it's been really hard to find a match. The closest in terms of the combination of tone and brightness is YCH, with YY not rich enough, YCE too light, YCF and YBP too dark. Unfortunately, postage takes a while from US to Finland, so every batch of colour chips I order has taken some time to arrive. Anyhow, here are some comparison images in addition to the one posted by CQ_Cumbers:
[attach=1]
The spacebar is a WCK one from the Penumbra Solarised kit.
[attach=2]
And a pic from Clicker showing a DCS cap in trans yellow:
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=74350.0;attach=115397;image)
One important difference is that our 1x and 2x trans yellow caps will be in gloss finish, so they should look even more like the pieces used in the sets. I've been meaning to take some more comparison pics and new renders with the new font, but my time has been limited. I also want to get a WA chip to compare in case it's decided we need to go with a purer white, but I suspect it will also turn out "too blue".
So our colours at the moment are:
White: WCK
Black: NN
Red: RA
Blue: BDH
Yellow: YCH
Grey: GTH
Trans yellow: YBR (polycarbonate)
Trans blue: BEW (polycarbonate)
About the font, Here's a render of the current state of the font that shows the current thickness:
[attach=3]
We'll be starting a separate thread for the font soon. CQ_Cumbers is making a new arrow legend to match the arrows on the ships. We'll most likely use the arrows shown in the render for the general font legends, but will use CQ_Cumbers one for this set (it's just one legend so it won't really raise the cost). The instruction booklets for the classic space sets also used Eurostile bold for the step numbers. In order to get the font legends to match the specifications for Signature Plastics' doubleshot molding technique we have had to use a slightly less bold version. It also increases the appeal of the font for more general use as an alternative to Gorton Modified and this is a factor we need to take into consideration for raising the funds to get the font legends cut.
Using trans polcarbonate for legends is possible, but has a number of associates issues. One is the legend support grids which give an uneven look to the legends:
[attach=4]
Another is the contrast. Unlit trans legends tend to look dark, lit ones look light. They seem to work best on lighter base colours (darker base colours make unlit legends look even darker since you can't see the material between the support grid as easily). They can definitely be made to work and we will look into it, but they can look ugly if either the wrong colour combination or legend shape and support grid type are used.
Bonus Artisans may be possible and we'll look into it. It's possible that colour matching will prove difficult, though, since they're made from different materials.
Post by: zoggynog on Mon, 14 December 2015, 02:02:43
Thanks for taking the time. Any AFOL aware of these just went from "curious" to "must buy" based on your expanded explanations.
If I want to make absolutely sure I am in on these when they drop, what's my best course of action? Keep monitoring this thread?
Great work both of you, can't wait to see these things on a keyboard. Speaking of which, is there a recommended 65% keyboard kit you can build from the ground up? I'm not too scared of a soldering iron and I'm going to lego build the case. I'd be looking at 60% if it weren't for how cool those arrow keys should turn out.
Post by: n0rvig on Mon, 14 December 2015, 02:36:13
Post by: lashiel on Mon, 14 December 2015, 14:25:22
CQ_Cumbers/Oobly,
Thanks for taking the time. Any AFOL aware of these just went from "curious" to "must buy" based on your expanded explanations.
If I want to make absolutely sure I am in on these when they drop, what's my best course of action? Keep monitoring this thread?
Great work both of you, can't wait to see these things on a keyboard. Speaking of which, is there a recommended 65% keyboard kit you can build from the ground up? I'm not too scared of a soldering iron and I'm going to lego build the case. I'd be looking at 60% if it weren't for how cool those arrow keys should turn out.
There's the White Fox on Massdrop right now. Otherwise the Neutrino is the other common one--however, I don't think the Neutrino has a PCB, so you'd have to handwire.
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Tue, 29 December 2015, 08:54:49
The Space Extended interest check (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78216.0) thread is up now! Please check out the (almost) final renders for Space Extended, a new font for SA doubleshot keycaps that this set will be the first to use. If you have any feedback, comments or suggestions for the font, or just want to show interest, please comment on that thread. If you have anything to say specifically about this set, please continue to comment here. Oobly is still unavailable for the moment, but I will continue to read and take into account feedback on both - the community interest and support is greatly appreciated!
Post by: Jedi on Tue, 29 December 2015, 09:43:44
TLDR; 6 or 12 non-blank novelty 1U keys (either text or graphic) would be totally awesome :thumb:
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Tue, 29 December 2015, 10:06:09
I was looking at the latest layouts available via the keyboard editor. Would the design team be willing to consider some extra 1u keys in the novelties kit? For some of us with those obnoxious nonstandard keyboards or those with standard 104+4 keys, you would make our sets whole with them. A suggestion to keep costs low would be some text based keys. For the latest carbon set there were some keys labeled "raise" and "lower" and "up" and "down" that I used to complete the G1 thru G6 keys. I could also have used function keys and novelty picture keys but I wanted to reserve those for capping a 60% keyboard back at the pad.
TLDR; 6 or 12 non-blank novelty 1U keys (either text or graphic) would be totally awesome :thumb:
We'll consider it, but text or graphic keys would both need custom doubleshot legends, which do cost money ($50 each). Which nonstandard layouts will be supported depends on how popular this set is, and how popular the particular layout is with the community.
Post by: UsualSuspectXXX on Tue, 29 December 2015, 19:11:56
Post by: TheBestUkester on Mon, 04 January 2016, 17:05:08
Post by: MoJoSto on Tue, 05 January 2016, 13:27:52
Post by: rpapp on Sun, 17 January 2016, 11:46:49
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Sun, 17 January 2016, 13:34:05
Having checked the nonstandard set on the keyboard layout editor, I see it currently has H, U, N and T as extra alpha keys. Not sure why those specifically, but do you think it would be possible to add Z and Y, for rows 2 and 4 respectively (in order to make it possible to swap them). This would allow for QWERTZ layouts, at least the alpha part. I noticed that there are 2 things my muscle memory cannot let go of: ISO enter, and QWERTZ, so this would be quite helpful for me. I guess also for anyone else having used QWERTZ all their lives. Not sure if there are many of us around at Geekhack, but still, this would be nice.
I beleive HUNT is for colemak/dvorak homing keys. This is all row 3 SA, so you'll have no trouble moving keys around for QWERTZ, AZERTY, etc.
Post by: rpapp on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:37:10
Having checked the nonstandard set on the keyboard layout editor, I see it currently has H, U, N and T as extra alpha keys. Not sure why those specifically, but do you think it would be possible to add Z and Y, for rows 2 and 4 respectively (in order to make it possible to swap them). This would allow for QWERTZ layouts, at least the alpha part. I noticed that there are 2 things my muscle memory cannot let go of: ISO enter, and QWERTZ, so this would be quite helpful for me. I guess also for anyone else having used QWERTZ all their lives. Not sure if there are many of us around at Geekhack, but still, this would be nice.
I beleive HUNT is for colemak/dvorak homing keys. This is all row 3 SA, so you'll have no trouble moving keys around for QWERTZ, AZERTY, etc.
OK thanks! I missed the "all row 3 SA" part - and suddenly a lot of other conversations in the thread make more sense :)
Post by: regack on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:04:51
(http://i.imgur.com/vtoPpwvm.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/vtoPpwvm.jpg)
Post by: roostrc0gburn on Sun, 07 February 2016, 02:08:34
Post by: regack on Sun, 07 February 2016, 15:29:52
Please tell me this is still in the works!
I gather that Classic Space won't happen until after the Space Extended font (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78216.msg2041164#new) funding goes through.
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Tue, 02 August 2016, 15:02:08
So, are you interested in a Classic Space set without the custom font (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/53c27b409293bade6f98)? The other details would stay the same - all ABS SA R3, glossy alphas, trans yellow polycarbonate backspace and esc keys, same color scheme - but the legends would be in standard SP "Gorton Modified", not the Eurostile-inspired custom legends shown in earlier renders. If you think the set still sounds attractive, please tell me; if the custom font was your main interest and the lack of it is a deal breaker, please tell me as well. Any sort of feedback is appreciated.
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Tue, 02 August 2016, 15:05:14
Post by: nateth on Tue, 02 August 2016, 15:14:12
Would help from others allow for this project to move along, or is that not a factor?
Post by: roostrc0gburn on Tue, 02 August 2016, 15:14:34
Post by: xondat on Tue, 02 August 2016, 16:34:38
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Tue, 02 August 2016, 16:49:20
To be frank and honest it's a deal breaker. I like the colorway and transparent keys, but the font is what really stood out to me.
Would help from others allow for this project to move along, or is that not a factor?
The custom font is a pretty immense undertaking that would not make sense for only this set. We'd need to fundraise >$6000 (no small task), and the design of the font, while pretty close to finalized, would still need work so that all the legends can be manufactured correctly - which requires a good understanding of SP's CNC milling capabilities, thin-wall injection molding limitations, etc. If the primary interest is in the font and not in this set in particular, it may not make sense to continue working on cut down version of "Classic Space", but "Space Extended" is really not going to happen without Oobly. It was mostly his work - without him, it is both too big a project for me and not in my area of expertise.
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Tue, 02 August 2016, 21:41:51
i reaaaally want to get behind this project, but I couldn't do all R3. best of luck
Most of the first few pages of this thread were spent discussing different keycap profiles and the trade-offs involved, before creating a new doubleshot ABS font was even considered a possibility. The consensous back then seemed to be that SA Row 3 profile in glossy doubleshot ABS without a custom font was more thematically appropriate for a Lego-themed set, rather than PBT DSA dyesub with a custom font, because:
1) Legos are made from ABS,
2) SA Row 3 feels more like lego bricks than DSA or sculpted SA
3) white text on blue mods is more readable than black on blue
4) SP's ABS colors more closely match the colors of the original bricks
Now, with doubleshot ABS in a custom font off the table, it might be a good idea to come back to this discussion. So, which would you prefer - doubleshot SA ABS with Gorton Modified (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/53c27b409293bade6f98), or PBT dyseub DSA (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/ae6ae72f6f0e773dd25c) with the custom font? Keep in mind that changing to PBT would require changing the colors used, and changing to SA sculpted would require reconfiguring the child deals.
I understand that the audience for this set is a lot smaller without a revolutionary new doubleshot SA font, but are there still those interested for the sake of the color scheme? Perhaps I understimated the number of Lego Classic Space fans on geekhack?
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Tue, 02 August 2016, 23:06:45
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Dr_Alphabet on Tue, 02 August 2016, 23:23:46
I was in it for the trans yellow caps and he silver caps tbh. Font or no font I love the color way.I'm starting to think you have good taste, snail... I was just just about to comment on those translucent yellow accents. I wasn't around for this sets start but the colors grab me much more than the font. I hope the naysayers see the value in this without the font or better yet someone helps bring them both to life
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
Post by: tofgerl on Wed, 03 August 2016, 01:40:36
Post by: potatobot on Wed, 03 August 2016, 02:50:41
im a bit confused because there are two sets on the first post
but please make this happen. Please. :D
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Wed, 03 August 2016, 10:57:51
Is there any way you could open source the project? Surely Oobly is replaceable, if not by a single person, then by an army :)
I think it would be best for "Space Extended" to wait for Oobly to come back, as he had the font legend files, so an open source project wouldn't really have much to work off of. There would also still be the major hurdle of running a fundraiser for >$6,000, then ordering a prototype set, fixing any cosmetic problems, and repeat, before "Classic Space" with custom legends could run. Even with other people involved, it would still be an enormous project that I couldn't really help much with, and I'd rather not delay "Classic Space" for more months, when I will probably have even less time to work on it. Unless Oobly suddenly gets much less busy, I don't think running Classic Space SA with custom legends is an option at this point.
Basically, it's like any other interest check now - I'm interested in whether you'd buy the set for the color scheme and the novelties / accent keys. Feedback on sculpted / R3 / DSA or child deals is appreciated. If there's still a big enough audience for it, I'd like to run this set on Massdrop.
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Wed, 03 August 2016, 11:01:47
Post by: Data on Wed, 03 August 2016, 12:11:39
It seems that the reasonable course of action would be to concentrate on the font first, if at all possible, and then feature it in the new key set. If you could combine them in some way, with the key set helping to subsidize the cost of the new legends, that would be ideal. But I understand that's an enormous amount of work.
Post by: RELLIK on Wed, 03 August 2016, 17:39:46
Post by: MikeTheTiger on Thu, 04 August 2016, 21:37:00
Post by: nicx on Mon, 08 August 2016, 11:56:28
Post by: MediocreBadGuy23 on Fri, 12 August 2016, 09:33:58
Post by: Ouhei on Fri, 12 August 2016, 13:41:58
Post by: Dominathan on Sat, 13 August 2016, 04:40:14
Post by: anorphirith on Tue, 16 August 2016, 00:21:54
Post by: MediocreBadGuy23 on Tue, 16 August 2016, 15:31:13
I love this, keep me on the listSame here!
Post by: phinix on Wed, 24 August 2016, 16:56:21
SPACE SHIP !!!!!!
...
wait... R3? Nooooooo >:D. Fully sculpted!
Post by: Elrick on Wed, 24 August 2016, 20:29:30
Hope it makes it through because this Colour-way and Font is truly unique here and one key-set to own in the future.
Post by: MediocreBadGuy23 on Wed, 24 August 2016, 20:33:26
If this one ever goes on MassDrop, watch the orders sink MD within a few hours after launch 8) .Besides granite Elven, I think this is the keyset that I pretty much have to own.
Hope it makes it through because this Colour-way and Font is truly unique here and one key-set to own in the future.
Post by: Elrick on Mon, 29 August 2016, 20:32:52
Besides granite Elven, I think this is the keyset that I pretty much have to own.
Only if it goes through MassDrop due to being ripped off by IvanIvanovich and I do NOT want to hand over my money to anyone else besides MassDrop, when it comes to buying key-caps.
Better to be SAFE than sorry, dealing with rip-off, turd-muffins like IvanIvanovich and trust me they are still here on Geekhack, pretending to be trustful and honest when it comes to taking your money only you find out later who they really are.
Not saying this Group Buy OP will do the same with our money but if he goes with MassDrop, then he indeed is someone who's decent and honest when it comes to allowing our money to be safely deposited for these key-caps.
Post by: Zophos on Tue, 30 August 2016, 14:47:28
Post by: MajorKoos on Wed, 31 August 2016, 17:22:55
Looks awesome.
Post by: My_Thoughts on Thu, 01 September 2016, 03:44:32
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78216.0
Post by: tofgerl on Thu, 01 September 2016, 04:35:16
I still wonder why TS hasn't just done the obvious thing and changed the profile to PBT DSA, that way the font is actually pretty easy to do using dye subbing.
Post by: simonyunhe on Thu, 01 September 2016, 05:15:03
Yeah, the font is basically impossible to fund - not that there has been a legitimate attempt.You have the point here the very first SA PBT set will available today! 100 sets limited!
I still wonder why TS hasn't just done the obvious thing and changed the profile to PBT DSA, that way the font is actually pretty easy to do using dye subbing.
Post by: tofgerl on Thu, 01 September 2016, 05:24:11
What...? Link? I thought the SA keys were to large to be mouled out of PBT due to shrinkage?Yeah, the font is basically impossible to fund - not that there has been a legitimate attempt.You have the point here the very first SA PBT set will available today! 100 sets limited!
I still wonder why TS hasn't just done the obvious thing and changed the profile to PBT DSA, that way the font is actually pretty easy to do using dye subbing.
Post by: simonyunhe on Thu, 01 September 2016, 05:46:02
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160901/1ffad40a6b548a73cd82796c65a73504.jpg)Quote from: simonyunhe l[img width=640 height=1138http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160901/5a3fe1b32c2a0c2ac7b35f9e7df7b6e6.jpg[/img]What...? Link? I thought the SA keys were to large to be mouled out of PBT due to shrinkage?Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160901/0a77ff4a8b80872865dc8e076380d52d.jpg)ink=topic=74350.msg2253132#msg2253132 date=1472724903]Yeah, the font is basically impossible to fund - not that there has been a legitimate attempt.You have the point here the very first SA PBT set will available today! 100 sets limited!
I still wonder why TS hasn't just done the obvious thing and changed the profile to PBT DSA, that way the font is actually pretty easy to do using dye subbing.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160901/72aa2ea6b359891c2fbfdc35a4f70f9c.jpg)
Visit pimpmykeyboard.com
Post by: tofgerl on Thu, 01 September 2016, 06:38:50
This is indeed interesting... We can have the cake and eat it too!
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Thu, 01 September 2016, 16:26:17
Post by: MediocreBadGuy23 on Thu, 01 September 2016, 17:29:13
Wow - I didn't hear about SA releasing a dyseub SA set (I assume it's in PBT?). It seems like the best of both worlds, but there would still be some compromises to be made. The modifiers would have to have dark legends - which, while still readable, don't match the original sets' pad printed white onto blue ABS. The material also wouldn't match, and I'm not sure about the availability of glossy finishes. If they are as thick as their old PBT SA blanks they might also be somewhat thinner than SA ABS keycaps. That said, I think this is probably the closest to the original vision I could do at this point, seeing as the custom font and SA profile, both major components of the set design, can both be kept. What do you think?I think any way this set will be released I'd buy it instantly. If it looks like your original idea and the renders you have in this thread than I'm 100% for it. This colorway and theme is damn near perfect! I'm excited for this possibly coming
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Thu, 01 September 2016, 21:22:00
EDIT: Sorry, I meant modifiers, not legends
Post by: Elrick on Fri, 02 September 2016, 01:51:06
Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160901/72aa2ea6b359891c2fbfdc35a4f70f9c.jpg)
Visit pimpmykeyboard.com
Just bought ONE set (which they only allow) so waiting for it to arrive to my front door in Convict Town.
They only sold a TKL set with a Numpad set.
Looking forward to seeing how these babies look up close because these are the very FIRST SA Profiled PBT keys made thus far. Glad at least one manufacturer is doing it, just wish they would include a greater colour range later on, when it comes to making more designs.
Post by: Elrick on Fri, 02 September 2016, 01:57:14
Forgot to mention - there's also the possibility of doing PBT dyesub alphas and custom ABS molds for the legends, like unoab suggested a long time ago, so that there are only 31 extra custom legends in the base set (64 extra custom legends total, could be reduced with slight color scheme changes to child deals or less novelties).
Actually still prefer your original design ideas because they are so perfect in conception and that is usually the way to go. If you start adding too many extras that will diffuse the overall design, so it will become another "Try Hard" key-set trying it's best to attract everyone's attention, but fails.
Remember that keeping it conservative will make it far more beautiful for years to come. It's all about longevity here, I no longer want to buy and install key-sets then throw them in the rubbish to make room for NEW ones next year.
Post by: jebbra on Fri, 02 September 2016, 04:15:57
- Go with ABS, if this is a remake of existing Lego putting the same material and color will achieve the purpose, rather than keeping the font
- That transparent yellow cap IS A MUST
- Please allow ortholinear people join this and don't forget including 2 transparent yellow 1U for them, low rise keys on transparent yellow is killer, I already wet just thinking of it
- That's light gray, right? Not silver, right?
I'll wait for the launch :thumb: :thumb:
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Fri, 02 September 2016, 09:01:31
- I'm not a fan of that space font, makes it look like a Razer
- Go with ABS, if this is a remake of existing Lego putting the same material and color will achieve the purpose, rather than keeping the font
- That transparent yellow cap IS A MUST
- Please allow ortholinear people join this and don't forget including 2 transparent yellow 1U for them, low rise keys on transparent yellow is killer, I already wet just thinking of it
- That's light gray, right? Not silver, right?
I'll wait for the launch :thumb: :thumb:
Getting rid of the custom font would make it a lot cheaper to run, but it seems to be a defining part of the set design at this point - get rid of it and the audience diminishes considerably, in addition to making the set much less unique. I'm not seeing the resemblance with Razer's font though, and the modifiers would still be in ABS. On the other hand, using PBT SA would allow for ortholinear keys in a custom font, and we definitely plan on including trans yellow keys where possible. The color is light gray, but I don't know exactly what SP PBT color that means yet (I'm thinking probably GEC) . You can see the ABS colors we were planning to use below:
(http://i.imgur.com/kwEb9JX.png)
Post by: KHAANNN on Fri, 02 September 2016, 09:58:16
Just skimmed the entire thread quickly, it was nice to see that one lego picture from Clicker. I have a small attic room full of Lego's myself, only 40% of them opened, bought them all 2 years ago, then realised it became an addiction, had to stop, not sure how I feel about Lego now. Probably best to buy Lego's, enjoy them, re-pack and sell them and move onto another set, it would make things manageable as an ~adult
On topic, I didn't see whether it was mentioned, but for 60% users, it would be great to have a transparent Enter key too, kind of like an Esc+Enter combo - I'm not sure how it would look tho
In any case, I will 100% join when this set launches
(Would be nice to have 1.75 CTRL + 1.25 CMD + 1.25 META (or 1.25 blanks) + 1u FN in extras)
Post by: pomk on Fri, 02 September 2016, 10:42:38
Post by: Sneaky Potato on Fri, 02 September 2016, 10:54:54
Post by: MikeTheTiger on Tue, 06 September 2016, 02:52:50
Why not doubleshot the alphas? If run on massdrop, the keyset would likely hit something around 600 sold and with around 100(?) new glyphs that is just 8$ per buyer. Just put the first drop point to be rather high, so people are not afraid of purchasing.
I think he may be on to something here. I, for one, would not mind this set being higher in price than recent SA sets, if we could manage to get the new font made in the process.
Getting rid of the custom font would make it a lot cheaper to run, but it seems to be a defining part of the set design at this point - get rid of it and the audience diminishes considerably, in addition to making the set much less unique.
I think possibly running this through a vendor like MassDrop, would provide a great deal of extra exposure to the set. Which, in turn, would hopefully pull in enough purchases to make the custom font achievable. What are your thoughts about spreading the cost over the entire group buy vs doing the custom font separately? At least if it doesn't meet the potentially higher MOQ to made this feasible, you will definitely gauge interest on your original vision for this set (which is obvious that it is an instant buy for many). Perhaps a poll can be done beforehand? Anyway...I don't mean to sound like a hijacker, but I love your ambitions for this set and would hate to see your efforts not come to fruition. Oh, and I need that esc and backspace. ;)
Post by: tofgerl on Tue, 06 September 2016, 06:52:26
If anything, let's put doubleshot alphas in the "round 2" bin and focus on what's much easier for round 1.
Post by: jebbra on Tue, 06 September 2016, 07:37:25
Post by: pomk on Tue, 06 September 2016, 09:03:33
Let's not go back that route.I think that the reason for abandoning the font was just money (and oobly being busy, but I dont think that he is the only one here who knows something about typography), and it is a non-issue, so why wait for round 2.
If anything, let's put doubleshot alphas in the "round 2" bin and focus on what's much easier for round 1.
Carbon had 600 kits sold
1976 round 2 had 600 kits sold
Pulse had 1200 kits sold
Put the drop at 500 units and the base set would just be 10$ more expensive than normally, making the 88 key base set something like 85$. With this many new legends and with massdrop backing it I don't think that there will be problems with having a prototype set made as part of the order. Especially if you then let the font to be used freely in following massdrop buys.
Post by: tofgerl on Tue, 06 September 2016, 09:07:30
Post by: pomk on Tue, 06 September 2016, 09:56:40
Well, it wouldn't hurt to put it as a stretch goal in the buy, I suppose...Yes, because it's not going to cause confusion when the entire set changes at some price point. What about those who would prefer to have basic legends?
Post by: tofgerl on Tue, 06 September 2016, 09:57:21
Or child kit I guess is the term.
Post by: pomk on Tue, 06 September 2016, 10:15:06
Optional stretch goal obviously.Just put boring normal legends as a child kit...
Or child kit I guess is the term.
Post by: tofgerl on Tue, 06 September 2016, 10:16:12
Child kids don't get made if the main kit fails. What the hell is unreasonable about what I'm saying?Optional stretch goal obviously.Just put boring normal legends as a child kit...
Or child kit I guess is the term.
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Post by: pomk on Tue, 06 September 2016, 10:31:19
Sorry for being so aggressive, bad day at work.Child kids don't get made if the main kit fails. What the hell is unreasonable about what I'm saying?Optional stretch goal obviously.Just put boring normal legends as a child kit...
Or child kit I guess is the term.
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Well I guess both are OK, just as long as no one is forced to buy anything with gorton modified font and the kits with the proper font are made even if the gorton modified ones should fail.
Post by: tofgerl on Tue, 06 September 2016, 10:35:01
Feel better, man! Get yourself a treat after work to put all that behind you before coming home ☺️
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Post by: pomk on Tue, 06 September 2016, 10:47:45
With massdrop mods and alphas tend to be in different kits either way, but the alphas is the main kit. This set would be better with the mods as the main kit, though.Otherwise a good idea, but the mods are supposed to be done with the same eurostile-like font as well. :))
Feel better, man! Get yourself a treat after work to put all that behind you before coming home ☺️
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Post by: tofgerl on Tue, 06 September 2016, 12:29:54
Post by: MediocreBadGuy23 on Tue, 06 September 2016, 12:38:00
That price is actually pretty reasonable. I think this set has a good enough colorway to where plenty of people would get in on it for that. And it's something new and out there (with the yellow mods like the old Lego blocks). I like that there's more discussion going on in this thread too. I don't think I can contribute anything (I know nothing about Keysets and how they're made) but I'll be checking regularly and hoping this gets made.Let's not go back that route.I think that the reason for abandoning the font was just money (and oobly being busy, but I dont think that he is the only one here who knows something about typography), and it is a non-issue, so why wait for round 2.
If anything, let's put doubleshot alphas in the "round 2" bin and focus on what's much easier for round 1.
Carbon had 600 kits sold
1976 round 2 had 600 kits sold
Pulse had 1200 kits sold
Put the drop at 500 units and the base set would just be 10$ more expensive than normally, making the 88 key base set something like 85$. With this many new legends and with massdrop backing it I don't think that there will be problems with having a prototype set made as part of the order. Especially if you then let the font to be used freely in following massdrop buys.
Post by: pomk on Tue, 06 September 2016, 13:40:29
the mods can't be dye subbed either way, the print is lighter than the background color.Who said anything about dyesubbing? Double shot all the way, it's not 'that' expensive really. Besides, it's not really know whether SP continue the PBT SA production or allow for community sets using it.
Post by: tofgerl on Tue, 06 September 2016, 14:12:54
the mods can't be dye subbed either way, the print is lighter than the background color.Who said anything about dyesubbing? Double shot all the way, it's not 'that' expensive really. Besides, it's not really know whether SP continue the PBT SA production or allow for community sets using it.
All of us! That's what we're currently discussing! PBT dye sub versus ABS double shot with the old font. Then you started talking about double shot with the new font, which was rejected months ago!
Post by: pomk on Tue, 06 September 2016, 14:26:32
Rejected because of a monetary non-issue, which was my point all along.the mods can't be dye subbed either way, the print is lighter than the background color.Who said anything about dyesubbing? Double shot all the way, it's not 'that' expensive really. Besides, it's not really know whether SP continue the PBT SA production or allow for community sets using it.
All of us! That's what we're currently discussing! PBT dye sub versus ABS double shot with the old font. Then you started talking about double shot with the new font, which was rejected months ago!
Post by: tofgerl on Tue, 06 September 2016, 14:27:24
Post by: MikeTheTiger on Tue, 06 September 2016, 15:15:28
the mods can't be dye subbed either way, the print is lighter than the background color.Who said anything about dyesubbing? Double shot all the way, it's not 'that' expensive really. Besides, it's not really know whether SP continue the PBT SA production or allow for community sets using it.
All of us! That's what we're currently discussing! PBT dye sub versus ABS double shot with the old font. Then you started talking about double shot with the new font, which was rejected months ago!
Rejected because of a monetary non-issue, which was my point all along.the mods can't be dye subbed either way, the print is lighter than the background color.Who said anything about dyesubbing? Double shot all the way, it's not 'that' expensive really. Besides, it's not really know whether SP continue the PBT SA production or allow for community sets using it.
All of us! That's what we're currently discussing! PBT dye sub versus ABS double shot with the old font. Then you started talking about double shot with the new font, which was rejected months ago!
Yes, YOUR point.
Woah, woah, woah...let's not argue here. The point is that we all would like to see this set get made. Period. Hopefully we can all agree that ABS doubleshot > PBT dye sub. Let's bounce some constructive ideas around here and see what makes sense to OP.
Post by: pomk on Tue, 06 September 2016, 16:11:23
Yes, YOUR point.I'm sorry if I have offended you on a personal level.
I just don't see the point of not going forward with the original plan of all custom double shot legends. Especially considering that the price of a TKL set would be just 10$ more than with the basic gorton legends. Do you feel that 85$ for a TKL set with an unique font is too much, or that it is unlikely to fetch the required 500 orders? The price tiers under 500 would be ridiculous though, but all recent SA group buys have been at least that succesful.
Post by: Jedi on Tue, 06 September 2016, 18:45:06
Here is the layout editor: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/53c27b409293bade6f98
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Tue, 06 September 2016, 21:44:17
I think the original issue was whether Oobly would have time to work on this set. In the interest of keeping this with CQ_Cumbers and Oobly inspired, could we have a community member who has designed caps review the keyboard layout editor and let us know any keys that need to be added to cover any boards the community wishes to be included with the set?
Here is the layout editor: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/53c27b409293bade6f98
I don't think that's the main problem here. The problem I'm having is creating the legends, because it has to match a bunch of Signature Plastic's requirements in order to be manufactured (and since the process is confidential, we have to check every key with SP's engineers as well). I have Oobly's legend files for a 104-key standard keyboard, but creating new ones for the child kits is a difficult process, especially as the files appear different in different editors or even different versions of the same editor, just scaling the files distorts them (floating point errors?), and a slew of other problems. I'm figuring it out, but it'll take a while.
In addition, I'm not sure if the designer can change the price of set on Massdrop, or if they have some contract with Signature Plastics. If you can just raise the set price $20, and tell Massdrop to use that extra money for funding the custom legends, that would be great, but I'm not sure if it is possible. From what I know, I'll need to:
1) Verify with Signature Plastics that the legend files are manufacturable
2) Ask them for a price estimate on the set (or do you do that through massdrop?)
3) Contact massdrop about arrangements for pricing the set and tiers
4) Set up a poll on massdrop for the set and child kits?
5) Massdrop does the ordering from Signature Plastics (of both the set and the legends?) and the subsequent distribution
I've never done this before though, so any help on how to actually go about this from someone who has experience running a group buy would be greatly appreciated.
Post by: Jedi on Tue, 06 September 2016, 23:12:11
I have Oobly's legend files for a 104-key standard keyboard, but creating new ones for the child kits is a difficult process, especially as the files appear different in different editors or even different versions of the same editor, just scaling the files distorts them (floating point errors?), and a slew of other problems. I'm figuring it out, but it'll take a while.
In addition, I'm not sure if the designer can change the price of set on Massdrop, or if they have some contract with Signature Plastics. If you can just raise the set price $20, and tell Massdrop to use that extra money for funding the custom legends, that would be great, but I'm not sure if it is possible. From what I know, I'll need to:
1) Verify with Signature Plastics that the legend files are manufacturable
2) Ask them for a price estimate on the set (or do you do that through massdrop?)
3) Contact massdrop about arrangements for pricing the set and tiers
4) Set up a poll on massdrop for the set and child kits?
5) Massdrop does the ordering from Signature Plastics (of both the set and the legends?) and the subsequent distribution
I've never done this before though, so any help on how to actually go about this from someone who has experience running a group buy would be greatly appreciated.
1. If you are handling the IC from the position as the Designer, contact Melissa at Signature Plastics. Melissa would take you through the steps in getting to SP what all that is needed. Keep going through this with Melissa until everything from layout, to keyset to child deal is covered in the design. Only once the design is done with SP would this move to step 2.
2. Ask SP to provide you a quote for the base kit (this is the basic set of keys that you want the design to include). Add child kits (these are extra keys not included in the base kit that complement the keyboard layouts you intend to support). Last, provide a novelty kit (this is optional and would include keys that are extras or keys that may use graphic legends).
3. Yes, contact a 3rd party if you do not intend to be the sole person to handle the group buy. Massdrop, Originative, and others like KeyClack may be interested in running the group buy.
4. Optional, you do not necessarily need a poll setup as you already have a interest check on Geekhack. May want to extend this to Deskthority and Reddit and other popular sites or direct those community members to the Geekhack interest check here.
5. Yes, the group buy site, whether its Massdrop or some other vendor site, will take over with putting up the group buy for a period of time (usually 2 to 6 weeks) and collect payments from all participants. The vendor would place the order with Signature Plastics and the group's order would be placed on the schedule with Signature Plastics for production. Be sure to ask the mods at Geekhack to then create a group buy thread for when the set goes on sale.
HTH
Post by: pomk on Wed, 07 September 2016, 03:36:55
In addition, I'm not sure if the designer can change the price of set on Massdrop, or if they have some contract with Signature Plastics. If you can just raise the set price $20, and tell Massdrop to use that extra money for funding the custom legends, that would be great, but I'm not sure if it is possible.I think that they should be able to automatically think of the set as just a bunch of novelty keys and no special 'legend funding' or tinkering with the price on massdrop is needed. This is unless the custom legend funding is supposed to pay also for something other than the molds.
Post by: tofgerl on Wed, 07 September 2016, 04:12:38
Yes, YOUR point.I'm sorry if I have offended you on a personal level.
I just don't see the point of not going forward with the original plan of all custom double shot legends. Especially considering that the price of a TKL set would be just 10$ more than with the basic gorton legends. Do you feel that 85$ for a TKL set with an unique font is too much, or that it is unlikely to fetch the required 500 orders? The price tiers under 500 would be ridiculous though, but all recent SA group buys have been at least that succesful.
Hey, whoa! Nothing personal! Sorry if it came out that way - that was in no way my intention! :)
I was just pointing out that this set was first suggested a year ago. It then gained no traction because of the extra price for the font. Then, just this last week, it was announced that Dye Subbed SA R3 caps is a possibility, which is the only thing that made this set a possibility again and revived the thread. The fact that you NOW want to drag us back to what didn't work a year ago is what I wanted to point out.
Post by: pomk on Wed, 07 September 2016, 04:42:09
You are corect. However I think that the original idea of having to fund the font separately was a bit misconceived. If people would have been presented with just the set with a custom font and the price of 85$ I don't think that any other route would have been even thought of.Hey, whoa! Nothing personal! Sorry if it came out that way - that was in no way my intention! :)Yes, YOUR point.I'm sorry if I have offended you on a personal level.
I just don't see the point of not going forward with the original plan of all custom double shot legends. Especially considering that the price of a TKL set would be just 10$ more than with the basic gorton legends. Do you feel that 85$ for a TKL set with an unique font is too much, or that it is unlikely to fetch the required 500 orders? The price tiers under 500 would be ridiculous though, but all recent SA group buys have been at least that succesful.
I was just pointing out that this set was first suggested a year ago. It then gained no traction because of the extra price for the font. Then, just this last week, it was announced that Dye Subbed SA R3 caps is a possibility, which is the only thing that made this set a possibility again and revived the thread. The fact that you NOW want to drag us back to what didn't work a year ago is what I wanted to point out.
Post by: tofgerl on Wed, 07 September 2016, 04:43:31
Post by: pomk on Wed, 07 September 2016, 04:55:13
Quite possibly, but remember child kits complicate things.That is true, especially for child kits with many keys and only a few buyers. The 85$ would get ~100 new legends at 500 sets, meaning around 10-20 would be left from the basic TKL set. So a numpad and maybe some tsangan/whitefox kit could still be added at a reasonable price. Things like a full ISO kit with 50+ legends are naturally out of the question at least for the first round.
However if the legends are funded each from their corresponding sets, for example a numpad kit would be around 27$ instead of 20$. Sales figures and kit content from 1976 R2 numpad kit.
Post by: My_Thoughts on Wed, 07 September 2016, 07:21:41
That is true, especially for child kits with many keys and only a few buyers. The 85$ would get ~100 new legends at 500 sets, meaning around 10-20 would be left from the basic TKL set. So a numpad and maybe some tsangan/whitefox kit could still be added at a reasonable price. Things like a full ISO kit with 50+ legends are naturally out of the question at least for the first round.
ISO sales continue to climb on massdrop and at other vendors. Given the delays in production I think if we do ISO right at the start it's never going to be done. Just do it :)
Post by: pomk on Wed, 07 September 2016, 07:35:17
Haha, even if this would sell as much as pulse R2, the price of a combined norde+uk+iso kit would be quite ridiculous. 39 new molds divided by 120 buyers would make the set at least 55$, and I'm not sure if UK people are willing to pay that much for 9 keys :)). That price is gathered from pulse kits and the cost of additional legends when you don't print the AltGr legends on the keycaps. If you wish to have full legends for norde it would take some 10+ molds in addition and also 10 more keys to the whole set.
That is true, especially for child kits with many keys and only a few buyers. The 85$ would get ~100 new legends at 500 sets, meaning around 10-20 would be left from the basic TKL set. So a numpad and maybe some tsangan/whitefox kit could still be added at a reasonable price. Things like a full ISO kit with 50+ legends are naturally out of the question at least for the first round.
ISO sales continue to climb on massdrop and at other vendors. Given the delays in production I think if we do ISO right at the start it's never going to be done. Just do it :)
Post by: phinix on Wed, 07 September 2016, 07:50:20
Post by: My_Thoughts on Wed, 07 September 2016, 09:53:23
ISO is a must! :)
ISO is a must!
Post by: pomk on Wed, 07 September 2016, 10:18:44
Post by: regack on Wed, 07 September 2016, 10:45:55
Unless of course you have some unlimited stash of money
I'd have funded so many various projects by now if I had this... even if it was sufficiently-large-but-limited stash... ahh well, I can keep hoping that one day.... one day....
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Wed, 07 September 2016, 23:20:10
I'd like to see ISO with fin/swe layout as well, but just don't see it happening at a reasonable price, unless it is subsidized from the main set making it even more expensive. Unless of course you have some unlimited stash of money and would like to set up a lego keyset store in Europe :)).
I guess there's the advantage of using PBT dyesub - ISO, novelty, or other child kit legends, as long as they are dark on light, could be done without as much extra cost. Changing materials just for child kits might feel a bit weird, though, and Signature Plastics is not ready to accept requests for custom sets using sublimated SA keys just yet, as they are still working out kinks with the process (Not that this set is going to happen that soon anyways).
Post by: MajorKoos on Thu, 08 September 2016, 06:55:44
The clear Esc/Enter combo looks brilliant.
I so wish I could fit this set on my Atomic.
Post by: Zophos on Thu, 08 September 2016, 07:44:21
Post by: Jedi on Thu, 08 September 2016, 09:42:50
Post by: tofgerl on Thu, 08 September 2016, 14:46:23
Post by: My_Thoughts on Fri, 09 September 2016, 04:14:57
Remember those kids whose parents bought them fake legos? Yeah, that's what the people who miss out on this set will feel like ;)
Lego, the plural of Lego is Lego, unless you also say spaghettis and sheeps.
Post by: tofgerl on Fri, 09 September 2016, 04:36:02
Sue me.Remember those kids whose parents bought them fake legos? Yeah, that's what the people who miss out on this set will feel like ;)
Lego, the plural of Lego is Lego, unless you also say spaghettis and sheeps.
Post by: MajorKoos on Fri, 09 September 2016, 06:53:28
Sue me.Remember those kids whose parents bought them fake legos? Yeah, that's what the people who miss out on this set will feel like ;)
Lego, the plural of Lego is Lego, unless you also say spaghettis and sheeps.
Why not follow the apple naming trend to the natural conclusion and call it "The Lego"?
Post by: tofgerl on Fri, 09 September 2016, 06:54:24
Post by: phinix on Wed, 14 September 2016, 15:39:43
Post by: tofgerl on Thu, 15 September 2016, 09:20:25
Post by: MediocreBadGuy23 on Thu, 15 September 2016, 09:26:10
I still say let's wait and see how the reaction to the Ice Cap kit is. Everyone posting about them have been very positive, so if SA decide to offer this, I say a fully R3 Dye Sub kit is the best way to go. Yes, the colors may have to change since the fonts have to be darker than the caps, but still.The ice caps look great but I've seen a few people with faulty space bars on them. JChan94 posted a vid where his stuck when pressed down.
Post by: tofgerl on Thu, 15 September 2016, 09:26:48
Post by: Vigrith on Thu, 15 September 2016, 09:42:24
Yeah, PBT space bars are notoriously difficult :(
That reminds me I cheaped out when the PBT topre spacebars dropped on MD last time because my only one was a FC660C but now I have a HHKB arriving next week and I'm sad. God damnit. :c
Post by: tofgerl on Thu, 15 September 2016, 09:43:43
Post by: MajorKoos on Thu, 15 September 2016, 10:19:17
I still say let's wait and see how the reaction to the Ice Cap kit is. Everyone posting about them have been very positive, so if SA decide to offer this, I say a fully R3 Dye Sub kit is the best way to go. Yes, the colors may have to change since the fonts have to be darker than the caps, but still.The ice caps look great but I've seen a few people with faulty space bars on them. JChan94 posted a vid where his stuck when pressed down.
yeah, mine also have a similar problem.
I had to readjust my stabilizers and add a healthy dose of lubricant before it started working right.
After about a day of use everything has settled enough for the sticking to disappear - lubed 62g Zelios.
Post by: tofgerl on Thu, 15 September 2016, 10:24:30
Post by: parablol on Thu, 15 September 2016, 13:26:02
Post by: pomk on Thu, 15 September 2016, 13:31:31
Post by: tofgerl on Thu, 15 September 2016, 14:00:44
Nope, ignore that, I forgot to insert my brains. :)
Post by: pomk on Thu, 15 September 2016, 16:10:24
Post by: jebbra on Thu, 15 September 2016, 23:02:31
Krytox or generic PTFE? I know we're way off topic, but I have the same problem with a Granite DSA spacebar.
Lubing on Granite spacebar won't work. You must file a bit of the spacebar's inside leg, mine works like nothing happened now.
Sorry for the OOT OP!
Post by: tofgerl on Fri, 16 September 2016, 04:20:41
Post by: jebbra on Fri, 16 September 2016, 04:42:01
Yeah, but how the hell am I suppose to insert mypenissanding paper into that small a hole?
you dont sand the + hole, you sand the outer pole to make the diameter smaller. A nail file could work or wrap your sanding paper to a chopstick or something small and long enough.
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Tue, 18 October 2016, 06:32:18
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/53c27b409293bade6f98
What other kits would you include (keep in mind extra blue keys require more custom "molds")? Are there any you would break up or reconfigure? What PBT gray color would best match the old Lego Gray, as seen in the picture below:
(http://i.imgur.com/kwEb9JX.png)
Post by: Data on Tue, 18 October 2016, 06:48:23
I'm sure someone will ask for an ErgoDox kit. Also Planck/Atomic, and there might be a special key or two for the WhiteFox. Were there any 40% formats you wanted to support? TheVan has been popular recently, but I couldn't say which (if any) special keys are required for it.
Post by: simonyunhe on Tue, 18 October 2016, 08:20:06
Is the current thinking to do doubleshot ABS for the blue mods and everything else will be dye sub PBT? I guess SP has finally perfected their PBT SA process. That's cool.+1
I'm sure someone will ask for an ErgoDox kit. Also Planck/Atomic, and there might be a special key or two for the WhiteFox. Were there any 40% formats you wanted to support? TheVan has been popular recently, but I couldn't say which (if any) special keys are required for it.
Based on the feedback from people who bought the the PBT SA set, the finish of key surface and texture is very close to ABS one. So PBT and ABS mix & match should be fine.
Post by: My_Thoughts on Tue, 18 October 2016, 10:45:17
Post by: FuriousGeorge on Tue, 18 October 2016, 11:04:18
Post by: tofgerl on Tue, 18 October 2016, 12:08:26
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Tue, 18 October 2016, 12:09:39
+1 on colemak/dvorak. It doesn't always do really well, but it's important to some of us. If this is still planned for row 3 then it would only require an additional 4 or 6 keys depending on what's in the base set. I'd vote for both scoops and nipples if possible so we can choose.
Correct me if I am wrong, but if you look at the keyboard layout editor link I believe the Nonstandard Layouts kit supports Colemak and Dvorak layouts, though the set as a whole only includes scoops. I'll look into Ergodox as well. Are most people okay with how the kits are separated now?
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Tue, 18 October 2016, 12:18:23
Or switch to black font on the mods... Don't know if that would look good, though...
I don't think that will happen as the doubleshot legends on the TKL kit have already been approved. I'll still need to check the legends on the child kits, but I think we're staying with the color scheme seen in the renders on the original post. What could change at this point is the shade of PBT grey on the alphas and perhaps what is included in the child kits.
Post by: FuriousGeorge on Tue, 18 October 2016, 12:54:52
+1 on colemak/dvorak. It doesn't always do really well, but it's important to some of us. If this is still planned for row 3 then it would only require an additional 4 or 6 keys depending on what's in the base set. I'd vote for both scoops and nipples if possible so we can choose.
Correct me if I am wrong, but if you look at the keyboard layout editor link I believe the Nonstandard Layouts kit supports Colemak and Dvorak layouts, though the set as a whole only includes scoops. I'll look into Ergodox as well. Are most people okay with how the kits are separated now?
Yep, scooped HUNT and flat FJ in the main set should cover it. I'd definitely recommend adding a 1.5u Backspace to the nonstandard layout kit.
What's the 2u Backspace in the alternate modifiers used with? I'm not familiar with that. I wouldn't say no to a 1.75u backspace for colemak since I use it, but I realize it's not super common.
Post by: pomk on Tue, 18 October 2016, 14:28:28
Post by: My_Thoughts on Wed, 19 October 2016, 07:17:22
+1 on colemak/dvorak. It doesn't always do really well, but it's important to some of us. If this is still planned for row 3 then it would only require an additional 4 or 6 keys depending on what's in the base set. I'd vote for both scoops and nipples if possible so we can choose.
Correct me if I am wrong, but if you look at the keyboard layout editor link I believe the Nonstandard Layouts kit supports Colemak and Dvorak layouts, though the set as a whole only includes scoops. I'll look into Ergodox as well. Are most people okay with how the kits are separated now?
D'oh I missed the Nonstandard Layout. For me it's missing a blue 1.75 either blank or backspace key :)
Post by: MikeTheTiger on Wed, 19 October 2016, 15:04:19
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Wed, 19 October 2016, 16:58:58
Wait, I'm a bit confused. What keys will be doubleshot and which are to be sublimated? I have the latest PBT sublimated keys from PMK and they are not bad. Either way, it's glad to see this get rolling again. Planck and Minivan support is a must. Also, are the plans still to make the yellow polycarb keys??
Basically, the gray and yellow keys with dark legends will be sublimated, while the blue keys with white legends will be doubleshot. The translucent yellow polycarbonate keys are still there, and will have a glossy finish, while everything else will be semi-matte. You can see the exact colors in the OP. Planck support is difficult because it requires many doubleshot blue keys and therefore many custom molds, which will make it more expensive and require a lot of time and effort to make, especially as the small size of Planck mods makes it very difficult to squeeze in the wide letters of the custom font. The only way I see a Planck kit happening is if the keys are blank (like in the Ergodox Kit), but I don't know if that would be acceptable for most people.
Post by: MikeTheTiger on Wed, 19 October 2016, 18:43:40
Wait, I'm a bit confused. What keys will be doubleshot and which are to be sublimated? I have the latest PBT sublimated keys from PMK and they are not bad. Either way, it's glad to see this get rolling again. Planck and Minivan support is a must. Also, are the plans still to make the yellow polycarb keys??
Basically, the gray and yellow keys with dark legends will be sublimated, while the blue keys with white legends will be doubleshot. The translucent yellow polycarbonate keys are still there, and will have a glossy finish, while everything else will be semi-matte. You can see the exact colors in the OP. Planck support is difficult because it requires many doubleshot blue keys and therefore many custom molds, which will make it more expensive and require a lot of time and effort to make, especially as the small size of Planck mods makes it very difficult to squeeze in the wide letters of the custom font. The only way I see a Planck kit happening is if the keys are blank (like in the Ergodox Kit), but I don't know if that would be acceptable for most people.
Thanks for the clarification. I think for the Planck kit, blanks would be a good idea...as long as 1U and 2U polycarbs are included for spacebars. ;)
Post by: jebbra on Wed, 19 October 2016, 19:45:42
Post by: Elrick on Wed, 19 October 2016, 21:35:20
[Basically, the gray and yellow keys with dark legends will be sublimated, while the blue keys with white legends will be doubleshot. The translucent yellow polycarbonate keys are still there, and will have a glossy finish, while everything else will be semi-matte. You can see the exact colors in the OP. Planck support is difficult because it requires many doubleshot blue keys and therefore many custom molds, which will make it more expensive and require a lot of time and effort to make, especially as the small size of Planck mods makes it very difficult to squeeze in the wide letters of the custom font. The only way I see a Planck kit happening is if the keys are blank (like in the Ergodox Kit), but I don't know if that would be acceptable for most people.
It's all about the numbers here, too little will have any Planck or Ergodox keyboards compared to many having plain 104 and TKL keyboards throughout the world.
It's almost an embarrassing 250 000 000 to 1 in ownership of these freaky-like keyboards hence you ALWAYS go with the numbers that will buy it for general usage. It would be nice to supply all the extra keyset layouts for obtuse keyboards like the Planck and Ergodox but it's in such small numbers so why bother?
Post by: FuriousGeorge on Thu, 20 October 2016, 16:24:45
[Basically, the gray and yellow keys with dark legends will be sublimated, while the blue keys with white legends will be doubleshot. The translucent yellow polycarbonate keys are still there, and will have a glossy finish, while everything else will be semi-matte. You can see the exact colors in the OP. Planck support is difficult because it requires many doubleshot blue keys and therefore many custom molds, which will make it more expensive and require a lot of time and effort to make, especially as the small size of Planck mods makes it very difficult to squeeze in the wide letters of the custom font. The only way I see a Planck kit happening is if the keys are blank (like in the Ergodox Kit), but I don't know if that would be acceptable for most people.
It's all about the numbers here, too little will have any Planck or Ergodox keyboards compared to many having plain 104 and TKL keyboards throughout the world.
It's almost an embarrassing 250 000 000 to 1 in ownership of these freaky-like keyboards hence you ALWAYS go with the numbers that will buy it for general usage. It would be nice to supply all the extra keyset layouts for obtuse keyboards like the Planck and Ergodox but it's in such small numbers so why bother?
The number of the weird boards is tiny in comparison to normal layouts, but I'd bet a significantly higher percentage of owners buy aftermarket caps. I'd have to believe it is a single digit percentage at best of users who ever change out their caps on a normal board vs probably the majority of owners changing them on something custom like a Planck or Ergodox. That being said, the numbers for those kits is still small in comparison.
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Thu, 20 October 2016, 20:54:47
With some popular flat SA keyset being made (JukeBox, 1976) has planck kit with legend I think SP already has the molds so the pricing is no problem (Godspeed Planck kit only $25ish). And please don't take pricing too much into consideration, we all know this is expensive hobby, nothing you can do to make this cheaper if you want custom things with quality. And more people means more price drop and as I already said, this is Lego themed we are talking about, the market is already there, you just need the right platform and I believe this will hit 4k buyer if not more.
I think I will add a Planck and/or 40% kit with blanks and polycarbonate keys (like the Ergodox kit). The problem with making legends for those sets is that it takes a lot of time and is very difficult to do, especially for the smaller keys. It would also costs significantly more, because a defining feature of Classic Space is that all the legends are in a Eurostile-like custom font, rather than in SP's default Gorton modified. I hope this satisfies most Planck owners, but do understand that there is a balance between responding to community feedback and setting realistic goals so that the set can actually run reasonably soon.
Post by: jebbra on Thu, 20 October 2016, 23:17:50
With some popular flat SA keyset being made (JukeBox, 1976) has planck kit with legend I think SP already has the molds so the pricing is no problem (Godspeed Planck kit only $25ish). And please don't take pricing too much into consideration, we all know this is expensive hobby, nothing you can do to make this cheaper if you want custom things with quality. And more people means more price drop and as I already said, this is Lego themed we are talking about, the market is already there, you just need the right platform and I believe this will hit 4k buyer if not more.
I think I will add a Planck and/or 40% kit with blanks and polycarbonate keys (like the Ergodox kit). The problem with making legends for those sets is that it takes a lot of time and is very difficult to do, especially for the smaller keys. It would also costs significantly more, because a defining feature of Classic Space is that all the legends are in a Eurostile-like custom font, rather than in SP's default Gorton modified. I hope this satisfies most Planck owners, but do understand that there is a balance between responding to community feedback and setting realistic goals so that the set can actually run reasonably soon.
DUDE.... Seems like I'm too sleepy yesterday to realize this set will use CUSTOM FONT :-[ My bad. I apologize.
Blanks will be much more feasible for sure if we talk about custom font.
Post by: poolside on Sat, 05 November 2016, 18:55:46
- In order to make the numpad kit compatible with the 21-key numpads out there, would the addition of a dyesub black on yellow Esc, doubleshot blue Backspace and Tab R1 caps be possible?
- Any chance for an extra 2.25u Shift cap?
Is the LL928 keycap row 3?
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Sun, 06 November 2016, 08:55:57
Glad this set is finally happening :)
- In order to make the numpad kit compatible with the 21-key numpads out there, would the addition of a dyesub black on yellow Esc, doubleshot blue Backspace and Tab R1 caps be possible?
- Any chance for an extra 2.25u Shift cap?
Is the LL928 keycap row 3?
The entire set will be in uniform R3, including the LL928. My concern with the doubleshot backspace is that there is just not enough space to put a backspace legend on a doubleshot blue key with this set's wider font. Perhaps a dyesub yellow backspace and doubleshot tab and esc keys would work? I can probably include an extra 2.25u Shift cap in the alternative modifiers kit. I will need to put a freeze on changes to the kits soon, however, as I am in the process of working out pricing and every change to a kit complicates things. If anyone has any more suggestions on the child kits (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/53c27b409293bade6f98), please tell me as soon as possible.
Post by: poolside on Sun, 06 November 2016, 11:23:05
The entire set will be in uniform R3, including the LL928.
I did not see the KLE said "R3" right in the title, thanks.
Quote
My concern with the doubleshot backspace is that there is just not enough space to put a backspace legend on a doubleshot blue key with this set's wider font. Perhaps a dyesub yellow backspace and doubleshot tab and esc keys would work?
Something like "BS" (as seen on Leopold numpads), "BSP" or a left arrow maybe, so the backspace cap can still be blue and doubleshot?
Quote
I can probably include an extra 2.25u Shift cap in the alternative modifiers kit.
Great!
Post by: Cotay on Sun, 06 November 2016, 13:22:22
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Wed, 16 November 2016, 18:52:36
I've been working with thesiscamper recently, and he's created a fantastic new render of the set that I think will more accurately represent what the set is likely to look like in reality. You can see it in this post (click and expand for full resolution) or in the OP. I also thought this would be a good time to start a Massdrop poll using the new render, which you can vote on at the link above.
(http://i.imgur.com/1Z4pktl.png)
Post by: hoq on Wed, 16 November 2016, 20:31:30
They may help for the vote.
I like this theme, maybe it's my first all R3 SA keycaps set :p
Post by: Elrick on Wed, 16 November 2016, 20:34:41
Vote now on Massdrop! (https://www.massdrop.com/vote/Classic-Space-SA-R3-with-Custom-Font)
I've been working with thesiscamper recently, and he's created a fantastic new render of the set that I think will more accurately represent what the set is likely to look like in reality. You can see it in this post or in the OP. I also thought this would be a good time to start a Massdrop poll using the new render, which you can vote on at the link above.Show Image(https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/img_poll/XQn3Y4yQVVCsAA6LbbSg_md_img.jpg)
It looks SUPERB in every way. Please also do a full 104 key setup since I'm an addict these days for a real-sized keyboard layout.
Post by: pomk on Thu, 17 November 2016, 03:29:42
Post by: Dominathan on Thu, 17 November 2016, 03:45:35
Post by: jebbra on Thu, 17 November 2016, 05:26:20
Post by: XTgg on Thu, 17 November 2016, 05:57:05
Post by: TheRealDunkirk on Thu, 17 November 2016, 12:46:38
Post by: poolside on Thu, 17 November 2016, 16:58:16
I've been working with thesiscamper recently, and he's created a fantastic new render of the set that I think will more accurately represent what the set is likely to look like in reality. You can see it in this post or in the OP. I also thought this would be a good time to start a Massdrop poll using the new render, which you can vote on at the link above.
:eek:
thesiscamper, best renders in the industry.
Post by: switchnollie on Thu, 17 November 2016, 21:55:18
Big ups to camper too, he's been making so many great renders recently :) :cool:
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Thu, 17 November 2016, 22:09:52
Been watching this one for awhile, stoked to see it back up :thumb:
Big ups to camper too, he's been making so many great renders recently :) :cool:
Yeah, thesiscamper's renders have really upped the standard for the keycap design community. I was worried about the difficulty of working with someone else for renders after Oobly left, given how many custom and nonstandard features this set has, but thesiscamper has been wonderful to work with so far, and the quality of his work speaks for itself.
Post by: thesiscamper on Fri, 18 November 2016, 20:44:35
(http://i.imgur.com/zS0EuaR.png)
Post by: Twinguin on Fri, 18 November 2016, 22:41:26
Thank you for the kind words guys :)All the renders have been so great before and had me hooked up for this long ago. But this one ... ? This. Is. Amazing!! Pleeeease make this happen!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/zS0EuaR.png)
Post by: derezzed on Fri, 18 November 2016, 22:51:46
Thank you for the kind words guys :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/zS0EuaR.png)
If you gaze long enough into the Classic Space, the Classic Space gazes into you.
Could the real thing match the caliber of this render?
Post by: Hypocaffeinic on Sat, 19 November 2016, 04:12:32
Thank you for the kind words guys :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/zS0EuaR.png)
If you gaze long enough into the Classic Space, the Classic Space gazes into you.
Could the real thing match the caliber of this render?
So that.. that is not real. It's a render. A fancy computer illustration. Right?! That just breaks my brain. :o
Post by: CQ_Cumbers on Sun, 20 November 2016, 08:33:03
Thank you for the kind words guys :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/zS0EuaR.png)
If you gaze long enough into the Classic Space, the Classic Space gazes into you.
Could the real thing match the caliber of this render?
It is difficult to say whether the real thing will accurately match the renders of the transparent yellow keys, as Signature Plastics has not made many glossy polycarb SA keycaps before. However, we will try to get it as close as possible by asking them to color match the polycarbonate to an actual trans yellow Lego piece (though it's hard to say how good they are at color matching polycarbonate, as again they have not really done it before). If you are interested in making this a reality, please vote for the set on Massdrop (https://www.massdrop.com/vote/Classic-Space-SA-R3-with-Custom-Font).
Post by: Elrick on Wed, 23 November 2016, 04:25:01
Thank you for the kind words guys :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/zS0EuaR.png)
If you gaze long enough into the Classic Space, the Classic Space gazes into you.
Could the real thing match the caliber of this render?
So that.. that is not real. It's a render. A fancy computer illustration. Right?! That just breaks my brain. :o
That is the REALITY now when proposing any new Key-cap designs here on Geekhack.
Most newbs can not even think what the actual key-set will look like hence you will have talented people in 3D, spending great lengths of time for FREE to render up complete sets on keyboards to please these inept morons with no imagination whatsoever.
This is what you have to do to get them interested in any new Key-set Design these days.
Post by: thesiscamper on Wed, 23 November 2016, 04:29:48
I charge for them thoughThank you for the kind words guys :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/zS0EuaR.png)
If you gaze long enough into the Classic Space, the Classic Space gazes into you.
Could the real thing match the caliber of this render?
So that.. that is not real. It's a render. A fancy computer illustration. Right?! That just breaks my brain. :o
That is the REALITY now when proposing any new Key-cap designs here on Geekhack.
Most newbs can not even think what the actual key-set will look like hence you will have talented people in 3D, spending great lengths of time for FREE to render up complete sets on keyboards to please these inept morons with no imagination whatsoever.
This is what you have to do to get them interested in any new Key-set Design these days.
Oh but that one image I did for free.
Sent from my MI 5 using Tapatalk
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 24 November 2016, 06:35:15
I charge for them thoughShow Image(http://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji55.png)
Oh but that one image I did for free.
Sent from my MI 5 using Tapatalk
As you should, no one should put a great amount of time and effort to develop and render these images without being adequately compensated.
3D manipulation and render isn't easy and it takes a great deal of time to become competent at this craft. You're great at what you do, keep it up.
Post by: thesiscamper on Thu, 24 November 2016, 18:54:39
Thank you! :)I charge for them thoughShow Image(http://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji55.png)
Oh but that one image I did for free.
Sent from my MI 5 using Tapatalk
As you should, no one should put a great amount of time and effort to develop and render these images without being adequately compensated.
3D manipulation and render isn't easy and it takes a great deal of time to become competent at this craft. You're great at what you do, keep it up.
Sent from my MI 5 using Tapatalk
Post by: pixelpusher on Mon, 20 March 2017, 22:01:12
Post by: ChitownM2 on Mon, 20 March 2017, 22:09:42
Post by: imprevade on Tue, 21 March 2017, 09:40:39
Just stumbled onto this for the first time today. This set looks incredible. Any chance this is going to happen....seeing that this thread started in 2015 doesn't seem promising, but I see a lot of hard work that went into this so I'd love to see it produced.
I'm still very interested as well!
Post by: testplsignore on Sat, 25 March 2017, 05:04:21
The SA queue is pretty backed up, so even if this runs in DSA beforehand I would be happy with that :p
Post by: KnightDX on Wed, 29 March 2017, 15:04:23
Post by: Elrick on Sat, 01 April 2017, 20:51:31
I would love to see this set on my keyboard, count me in!
Same here, even us older, perverted, deranged, done it all to anything and everyone, want's this key-set 8) .
Great key-set design doesn't happen everyday here on Geekhack but when it comes along, everyone notices it and becomes addicted to owning it.
Post by: MajorKoos on Tue, 30 May 2017, 13:32:03
[attach=1]
Post by: dodgeyhack on Wed, 05 July 2017, 05:36:52
Post by: ihalatch on Sat, 08 July 2017, 22:18:03
Post by: RobotRogue on Wed, 13 September 2017, 17:08:46
Post by: Slimko on Tue, 03 October 2017, 10:01:32
Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Post by: bluesclera on Wed, 04 October 2017, 19:28:21
Post by: Zobeid Zuma on Wed, 04 October 2017, 19:37:06
- Uniform SA Row 3 profile
Why is it so hard to get sculpted SA sets, I wonder?
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 05 October 2017, 01:54:04
- Uniform SA Row 3 profile
Why is it so hard to get sculpted SA sets, I wonder?
Suspect Signature Plastics is drowning in orders and would rather put our key-set further back, than to invest anymore into their production facilities to increase throughput.
Welcome to business, always wanting but never fulfilling >:( .
Post by: imprevade on Thu, 05 October 2017, 09:29:00
- Uniform SA Row 3 profile
Why is it so hard to get sculpted SA sets, I wonder?
Suspect Signature Plastics is drowning in orders and would rather put our key-set further back, than to invest anymore into their production facilities to increase throughput.
Welcome to business, always wanting but never fulfilling >:( .
Even though it seems like the mech community is dying for SA keysets, I'm sure we don't meet the demand necessary for opening more manufacturing facilities. That equipment is expensive AF. And in the long term, they're doing the best thing for their employees, because if one day the demand dies out—or competitors enter the market—they won't have to close facilities or have major layoffs.
I'd much rather have them improve quality than timelines, which it seems they have been doing. I just received my Dasher set, and the quality is noticeably better than Amazing Chocolatier, which I received a few months ago. It looks like they've redone some of the molds for stabilized keys, and QC must be better since I didn't have to request any replacements this time.
Post by: kmba on Thu, 05 October 2017, 10:20:38
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 05 October 2017, 15:43:01
Post by: tomatoboy on Sat, 06 January 2018, 02:59:57
Post by: amnesia0287 on Sat, 06 January 2018, 03:08:27
SP is actually in the process of expanding their tooling for SA, from what I've heard.
for more options? or you mean like they are expanding capacity?
Post by: schmoktopus on Sat, 06 January 2018, 05:01:41