Advice On First Topre: Realforce RGB, Something Else?

[alperon]

After more than a decade of MX-style mechanical keyboards (mainly linear, but have tried others), I decided to shake it up a bit and hop on the Topre train. I made the decision after borrowing a Realforce 104UB (with the variable weight keys, but not silent). I like it, much in the same way one would like and learn to appreciate the differences between a German and an Italian sports car. 

There are two main problems with the RF 104UB, the black character keycaps (ok, fixable w/aftermarket, but the cost does rise..) and the lack of backlighting, which kind of kills it for me when working in the dark, as I need to check sometimes. 

So, with that said, I have a few questions:

A) If I need backlit, the Realforce RGB is my only option, right? Say I go with that one, how does the key sound and feel compare to the 104U – is it as bad as some claim it to be? What proven mods can I perform to make it better in some regards (silence, feel, Keycaps etc.) - I've read on the board about lubing, rings, but not sure?

B) If I’m losing out too much with the RGB, what are the best options with a numpad (can’t do without it)? What about keycaps in this scenario, what works best in the dark?

[Puddsy]

RFRGB is the only backlit topre board, correct. It's not as bad as some people say it is, but I wouldn't pay $300 for it. I'd rather have one of the new RFR2 104s.

[alperon]

Isn't the R2 104 just a silent, non-rgb or APC version of the RGB, having the same case and all?

Edit - did some research, the R2 / A, Limited Edition are available in the States, but pretty expensive, from $258 to $398, and have regular Topre keycaps.

[Hyde]

I've tried the Realforce RGB when I visit Japan, while it's not bad but it's not the true Topre experience.  But since you can switch keycaps so I'm not sure if the feel would be closer when you switch to PBT keycaps.  But as it stands the other Topre boards feels more "authentic Topre".

The current Realforce vs the R2 version is mainly just the case redesign and the APC function, rest are pretty much identical.

In my opinion if you can get silence version I'd highly recommend it.  After that I like 45g over variable Topre.

But currently only the only R2 that come with 45g and silence is the limited edition and it cost something like $100 over the regular version.

So I'd say you can either shoot for 104UW (old model) silent with variable weight, or look for R2 silent with variable weight.

Also with the visibility issue, just get the white model instead of the black model.  I know the black model looks cooler but if visibility is an issue then the white model is wayyyyy better.

[Acereconkeys]

I loved the Topre Realforce RGB when i owned one for 2 years. Used it with GMK plum it was awesome.

In my opinion silencing + putting dampening foam in the case made the typing experience on the realforce rgb much better so look into that. It slightly affects key feel by reducing the pretravel but in my opinion it's worth it for removing the upstroke noise that many complain about when they talk about the RGB.

On that note, the RGB makes a characteristic upstroke noise due to the slider housing design that has holes designed for LEDs to shine through. This also lets sound out when the slider hits the housing. This can be helped by putting a very thin ring between housing and top of slider.

That said, the 104 is a fantastic board as well. Great caps, less of a noise issue. I think you'll be happy either way if that topre keyfeel is what you're going for.

One aspect to consider is /r/mechmarket. /r/mechmarket is a subreddit designed for trading mechs and many Realforce RGBs show up there for cheaper than retail as the board is not very popular among enthusiasts.

[Tactile]

It's not Topre but maybe this would work for you.

[zslane]

I have both a Realforce RGB and a Realforce 104U and I prefer the RGB. The MX-compatible stems are more wobbly than Topre stems, and for most Topre purists that makes the RGB "not a real Topre experience," but if you can get past that, you have the backlighting and the full range of MX-compatible keycap sets as compensation. That is the main reason I use an RGB. It's all about the keycaps for me.

If you do get an RGB (and they can be had for something like $220 from mechancicalkeyboards.com, btw), you'll probably want to pick up some inexpensive silencing rings off aliexpress and install them. The stems are already pre-lubed so you won't have to bother with that. But the silencing rings do make a huge difference to the overall experience, IMO.

[alperon]

I still have the 104, but have to return it. The keys on the R 104 do indeed feel pretty sweet (hugely reduced wobble over all the MX board's I've had), and the stabs even better - night and day even after modding the Cherry ones on my older boards. The RGB is also significantly cheaper - the FC980c (which I like a lot) goes for $250 (and I'd have to add the cost of different keys if I go with the black), while the R2 Silent and Limited Editions start from $260 and $350 respectively, plus the cost of the caps with the black boards.

Didn't know the RGB had pre-lubed stems. Regarding the silencing rings, do they need to be cut on the RGB - some say yes, some say no after leaving them in for a while.

If I can make the RGB feel very close to the 104 at least, it makes sense (financially, at least). Apparently, getting the other ones in black and adding Topre-specific white / mixed keycaps is difficult and expensive

On a side note, I'm pretty amazed how quickly I adjusted to the Topre switches - been using it for less than 24h, and it feels absolutely natural.

[Riverman]

I installed silencing rings on my RGB (the ones from KBDFans), and the keyboard works fine without cutting any of the rings.  They're so small and thin that it would have been extremely difficult to cut them, and the clear ones I used made them hard enough to see as it was.  I think there's also the chance that the rings could rotate somewhat over time, which would negate any advantage that cutting them has.

[Hyde]

Uh they stopped selling original Topre replacement keycaps so if you get the RGB which has MX stems which is fine.

But if you get the black 104UB and want to change keycaps it will be a huge pain, since those come with Topre stems and you can only use Topre keycaps on them.  Currently finding Topre keycaps is a very expensive and problematic process.

So I'd recommend you just buy the white one 104UW if you're going the Realforce route.  Buying black then find keycaps for it will be too expensive to be worth the effort.

But either case make sure you either buy silence version or if not then pick up some aftermarket silence rings (KBDFans rings currently is best price / performance ratio, I have keyclack rings coming I will update you on that later).

The whole "silencing" aspect basically removed any form of wobble / small noise and make the board feels way more premium.

[zslane]

I concur with Riverman and Hyde. The silencing rings from KBDFans are the way to go. They do not need to be cut, and in fact there isn't enough material to cut in the first place. They do not noticeably reduce key travel IMO. They just aren't that thick.

https://kbdfans.cn/products/kbdfans-mod-topre-keyboard-silence-o-ring-hhkb-keyboard-realforce-87-104

[zslane]

...putting dampening foam in the case made the typing experience on the realforce rgb much better...

There's room in the RGB case for dampening foam??? I considered putting some sorbothane dampening sheets in the bottom of the case but couldn't see a way to get the case to go back together properly.

[alperon]

What thickness was it?

[zslane]

Around 2.5mm (0.10").

[alperon]

Yeah, that's pretty thin already. Not a lot of consumer choices at under 2mm.

For a reasonable cost, you could try Silverstone's adhesive sound dampening foam pads at 1/16" (about 1.5mm) thick - but I have no idea how that works. A (way, way) more expensive option is a 0.067" (1.7mm) Dynamat. It's a high density butyl rubber sound deadener that carmakers use in trunks.

Just something to be aware, more often than not, adhesive foam mats can be a PITA to remove. The adhesive tends to fuse with the foam after a while.