Anyone with nutrition knowledge as it relates to Low Carb/Keto diets? (Ketosis?)

[dante]

So I have a question that I can't find the answer to.

If I understand correctly when you cut way back on your carb intake you eventually deplete your glycogen stores and enter a state of Ketosis.  This takes around 3 days.  In Ketosis you use fat not carbs as your source of fuel.

However if you introduce a certain number of carbs into your diet again you get kicked out this state and you are a carb burning machine again.  But what if you consume barely enough carbs to get kicked out?  You are still almost mostly depleted of carbs but does it take 3 days to get back into Ketosis?  If yes, then what exactly is your body running on at that point?  (Carbs already depleted except the very small amount taken in, and you are not in Ketosis so theoretically not burning fat...)

Am I making sense?

[zombimuncha]

The way I look at it is to just assume that it will take another 3 days to get back into ketosis. That way it's just one more reason to be careful with the carbs.
"Do I really want that chip if it means wasting the next 3 days of dieting?"

[Bromono]

In ketosis your body uses Ketones. Your body produces ketones by burning fat. A lot of people fail on ketosis because they don't eat enough fat. 75% of your calorie consumption needs to be from fat. (Bacon, eggs, butter, sausage, oils, nuts, fatty meat) 20% from protein and 5% carbs. A lot of people will eat lots of protein and not enough fat. Your body can break down protein into sugar. So if you are eating way to much protein instead of fat you will never enter ketosis. Also not everyone takes 3 days to enter ketosis. You enter ketosis when your glycerine stores are depleted and your liver now has to produce ketones to supplement the lack of sugar in your body. Yo can enter ketosis faster by doing HIIT training as your body burns the sugar off faster. If you get kicked out of ketosis by only a few grams of carbs, you will enter back into probably a few hours later after your body burns off the sugar. Once keto adapted and you stay low on carbs, you can enter ketosis pretty easily of you go over your carb little by a little. I have lost 15 pounds so far. Also a good trick is to shock your body every week to 2 weeks. Your body adjusts and will slow down the fat burning after awhile. It's good to have a refeed day to keep your body burning fat all the time. Watch goodybeats on YouTube. Great channel for ketosis.

[Spopepro]

There's a fellow on the cycling forum I frequent who has a pretty thorough explanation *with* scientific journal citations.  If interested you can find it here.  The guy studies the metabolic biochemistry of drug addiction for his day job if I remember correctly, and he's a vegan who still manages to stay fat-adapted. Worlds away from the bro-science (i.e. not science) that typically surrounds this topic. Around post 18 he starts to touch on stuff that is related to the question you're asking.

[tp4tissue]

Tp4 did this in college.

Did lose weight. 

Although looking back, it was more due to the drastic calories cut-back when you don't eat carbs vs anything ketosis related.




At the very end ~ 8 months.. I had lost weight, but I knew by that point I was absolutely starving myself..   Did my waist more closely resemble the magazines we're often seening.. Yes,   but OVERALL.. it did not feel healthy.

[dante]

There's a fellow on the cycling forum I frequent ... and he's a vegan

Thanks for the link.  I may even reach out to him for further guidance.  If Vegans really cared about the animals and environment they would get out of their high carb box/bubble and try to put more people like this guy on the map.

Watch goodybeats on YouTube. Great channel for ketosis.

Thanks for the goodybeats suggestion; I'll check him out.

I don't like eating too high a fat % because my skin gets crazy oily.  I don't get acne or anything like that but it's disconcerting when I wipe it off onto a napkin and it looks like the bottom of a bag of fries.

I'm experimenting right now with combinations of rice/pea protein.  It's hypoallergenic and right up there with Whey for bio-absorption.  I honestly don't think it gets cleaner than that.

I don't like fatty cuts of meat because it makes me feel sluggish after a few days consumption.  I thought with the rice/protein pea I could experiment with adding varying amounts of MCT oil to it to dial in what feels right.

[iLLucionist]

You should be very careful with taking out all carbs. Your body produces ketones to release and transport glucose in your body. However, if you take out all the carbs (and sugars, which are also carbs of course), your body will still try to produce ketones in attempt to get glucose moving. However, if there is no glucose, your body will learn that releasing ketones does not get glucose moving, your body will stop trying to release ketones, and thus learn it is glucose resistant. And then you have self-inflicted diabetes.

[zombimuncha]

You should be very careful with taking out all carbs. Your body produces ketones to release and transport glucose in your body. However, if you take out all the carbs (and sugars, which are also carbs of course), your body will still try to produce ketones in attempt to get glucose moving. However, if there is no glucose, your body will learn that releasing ketones does not get glucose moving, your body will stop trying to release ketones, and thus learn it is glucose resistant. And then you have self-inflicted diabetes.

Nobody is suggesting cutting out all carbs. 20-100g per day is not the same thing as 0g per day.

Also, got a citation for that? I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's the first time I've heard it. My understanding, and it's probably grossly oversimplified, was that your muscles are using ketones instead of glucose, not as a catalyst for it.

[iLLucionist]

You should be very careful with taking out all carbs. Your body produces ketones to release and transport glucose in your body. However, if you take out all the carbs (and sugars, which are also carbs of course), your body will still try to produce ketones in attempt to get glucose moving. However, if there is no glucose, your body will learn that releasing ketones does not get glucose moving, your body will stop trying to release ketones, and thus learn it is glucose resistant. And then you have self-inflicted diabetes.

Nobody is suggesting cutting out all carbs. 20-100g per day is not the same thing as 0g per day.

Also, got a citation for that? I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's the first time I've heard it. My understanding, and it's probably grossly oversimplified, was that your muscles are using ketones instead of glucose, not as a catalyst for it.

That amount of carbs should be fine I guess.

It's called ketonuria what I were talking about:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketonuria

[dante]

Nobody is suggesting cutting out all carbs. 20-100g per day is not the same thing as 0g per day.

As a side note there are a group of people who follow that zero carb life:

https://zerocarbzen.com/

One thing I know for certain: When I go on a very low fat diet I am always starving and my hands are freezing.  Once I add a moderate amount of fat back in these effects reverse.

The trick is trying to find the balance.

[OfTheWild]

I've been doing "lazy" keto since last October based on info from /r/keto and /r/ketogains. I basically just try and stay under 20g of carbs per day. I play hockey a couple times a week and on those days i'll go up to 50g or so for the meal before the game. I don't really keep track of going in and out of ketosis but its not as drastic as it is after eating high carb for a few days and then going no carb for a week. I do on occasion stop doing keto just to make sure Im maintaining in a normal state. I think the results i've had might be as Tp4 mentioned as a reduction of caloric intake based on not eating breads and sugars.