[IC] GMK Modern Dolch 2 - GB live, join at GMKModo.com

[LRQ]

Also, since no one pointed it out yet... Is that a BauerX reveal??? holy fk that looks clean.

[itsmartin]

Thats the first time I've seen the name though I saw the board in the Redacted IC.

As for the debate about kits; I get why people who get pushed to child kits get upset at having to pay more when its only one or two caps extra needed, and I also see the argument that coverage for the most popular layouts is there in the base kit.

As someone who does fit in the base kit for my layouts, selfishly I do like the idea of a cheap base kit that suits me rather than a kit with spare keys that I'll never use. And the sales from MoDoL seem to agree with the approach.

I might regret that view later when I get a board that needs an F13 and I haven't got one here though... Because I'll be in for a base kit for sure.

[endjy]

I believe that the r1 has num and iso and 660 support for $140, but for r2 it seems to be 99+35+30= $164?? I don't get it.

I believe that the r1 has num and iso and 660 support for $140, but for r2 it seems to be 99+35+30= $164?? I don't get it.

indeed, cost-wise R1 was a better option than R2. Seems like this is a way to get more profit of it...

Yes but no boards use both numpad and 660 shifts. Price/key will always be lower the bigger you make the base kit with GMK but that doesn't matter if most users store away half the keys. This is cheaper for far more people (like I said 60-TKL and ANSI and 40% users make up the majority of users).

But I have 660 iso and 980 and tkl, and I want switch the keycaps. Also, speaking in favor of most people, why not make a $110 base including 660 support and iso support?

[L8T]

Also, since no one pointed it out yet... Is that a BauerX reveal??? holy fk that looks clean.

BauerX was already teased on GMK Redacted renders so it is not really a reveal here. Im definitely hyped for it tho!

[Extraxyz]

You can't go out of your way to buy a niche keyboard with a niche layout and then complain it's not supported by the cheapest possible base kits. It covers all standard TKL, 65% and 60% boards and that's more than enough. As a 60% Tsangan user I can't wait for the day base kits get even more stripped down and the F-keys, arrow keys and nav cluster keys get their separate child kit as well.

[Scriba]

Would love going for the Norde kit. But honestly the price for Modern Dolch Light Norde kit was way too high.

Mostly EU people like me wants the Norde Kit, but paying $60 additional with the shipping charges and taxes would made me pay around $250 for MoDo light from mykeyboard! one keycap set shouldn't be the price like a lowend keyboard.

[kzwai]

yes pls i need this alot

[alper_maestro]

Would love going for the Norde kit. But honestly the price for Modern Dolch Light Norde kit was way too high.

Mostly EU people like me wants the Norde Kit, but paying $60 additional with the shipping charges and taxes would made me pay around $250 for MoDo light from mykeyboard! one keycap set shouldn't be the price like a lowend keyboard.

I'm also from the EU and I never wanted the Norde kit, because you can definitely use the keyboard without it.

[Scriba]

Would love going for the Norde kit. But honestly the price for Modern Dolch Light Norde kit was way too high.

Mostly EU people like me wants the Norde Kit, but paying $60 additional with the shipping charges and taxes would made me pay around $250 for MoDo light from mykeyboard! one keycap set shouldn't be the price like a lowend keyboard.

I'm also from the EU and I never wanted the Norde kit, because you can definitely use the keyboard without it.

It's not about you can't use the keyboard without it but it's

1.) not practically because I have to search the special character or chose a layout i'm not used to and missing the "umlauts" (ä, ö, ü)
2.) it's optically not nice when you press Y and it writes a Z

But it's your choice if you don't want to pay for the Norde kit.

[alper_maestro]

Would love going for the Norde kit. But honestly the price for Modern Dolch Light Norde kit was way too high.

Mostly EU people like me wants the Norde Kit, but paying $60 additional with the shipping charges and taxes would made me pay around $250 for MoDo light from mykeyboard! one keycap set shouldn't be the price like a lowend keyboard.

I'm also from the EU and I never wanted the Norde kit, because you can definitely use the keyboard without it.

It's not about you can't use the keyboard without it but it's

1.) not practically because I have to search the special character or chose a layout i'm not used to and missing the "umlauts" (ä, ö, ü)
2.) it's optically not nice when you press Y and it writes a Z

But it's your choice if you don't want to pay for the Norde kit.

I understand what you mean about the prices.

That's the choice you should make when you want to buy the kits wou wanted.

But this is no problem for residents from the Netherlands, as there is no 'umlauts' and we use QWERTY keyboards. Standard layout from the US will work just fine for us.

[Hell-es]

I totally understand the idea of stripping the base - but the difference is too slightly in my opinion.

For EU vendor there was 18€ difference from 9009 to Metaverse, for numpad and basic iso - and +70 at 9009 thats really huge. 

So it is a self fullfilling prophecy - people not sure of numpad will never get it now


But thats just my opinion - you‘re the boss 

[Vigrith]

I love this set! I've never done an IC/GB before, so I'm not too sure if it's too late for my feedback:

1. Have you ever considered updating the main legend font for Modern Dolch? The rounded letters are a nice homage to the original set, but I feel some sharper edges would suit it well. I imagine it's too late to change something like this.
2. Similar to the previous, I think a few of the modifier legends could use updating, like the arrow keys. Maybe this could be sold as a separate set? Or with the "Modern" pack. In particular, some legends like these feel more modern to me:

Sorry for the poor quality pictures, hopefully you see what I mean. I think the rounded, bulbous appearance of a lot of the legends betrays its more modern feeling. After all, that's the purpose of the "Modern" addon pack!

wat

[JamesHereford]

Would love to see ISO support in base, but happy to buy as an extra kit. Here's hoping it hits MOQ!

[Birdm]

Will there be zero iso con5patibilty with the clout base set? Even if there was an addon I'd buy that, but I can't possibly buy in if there's not even the possibility for ISO

[PureLuck]

Bauer X by Dixiemech

Show Image

Show Image

Niceeeeee looking set! Btw is that a new board?

[Rohwi]

Any chance to get matching deskmats?
even the modern dolch light deskmats would fit, but a darker, more toned down look on them would look so great.

my desktop is ready for this kit and a deskmat



also praying for Base+Addition+NORDE to hit moq.

[depletedvespene]

You can't go out of your way to buy a niche keyboard with a niche layout and then complain it's not supported by the cheapest possible base kits. It covers all standard TKL, 65% and 60% boards and that's more than enough. As a 60% Tsangan user I can't wait for the day base kits get even more stripped down and the F-keys, arrow keys and nav cluster keys get their separate child kit as well.

And this is the kind of thinking that I find so problematic: the very concept of custom keycap sets was built upon the premise of everyone participating in the GB would subsidize each other's special needs (I don't use 1800 or 660 keyboards, but I don't mind "their" keys added to the set because they in turn will subsidize "my keys", like the R4 Fn key and the split space bars; Alice requires an extra B, so now most sets support that, even though there aren't that many Alice users (yet); etc.).

What we're now seeing from some sellers is a race to a "distilled bottom" in the name of (lower prices and therefore) increased sales, where a few annointed layouts get all the goodness of a lowered price, while whoever deviates, even if slightly, gets shafted with subsidizing both each other within the smaller non-annointed group AND the annointed group's lowered price, while people in the latter group only reap the advantages. This is unfair, and while it does present short-term advantages (for the seller and the annointed group), it IS a serious problem on the longer term and hurts the community as a whole.

And this race to the distilled bottom already has a logical endpoint... ((m)ass)drop's tailored kits, which are heavily critiziced by the community at large for this exact same reason (yet the seller doesn't seem to care).


This is NOT to say that a good discussion and agreement on what should be present on a base kit (and absent from it) should not happen, because that is exactly what we need, but the way to do it is certainly not through the decisions of a few vendors, who then might use the clout gathered from their own sales numbers to justify their agenda later on (with the added problem of differing agendas being pushed).

[VXQN]

And this is the kind of thinking that I find so problematic: the very concept of custom keycap sets was built upon the premise of everyone participating in the GB would subsidize each other's special needs (I don't use 1800 or 660 keyboards, but I don't mind "their" keys added to the set because they in turn will subsidize "my keys", like the R4 Fn key and the split space bars; Alice requires an extra B, so now most sets support that, even though there aren't that many Alice users (yet); etc.).

..

This is a very good take on the whole thing! Kit granularity is a double-edged sword for sure.

[FearsomeCubedWarrior]

Didn't find it anywhere: is it R1-R4 or R0-R5? I'd prefer R0-R5 of course: to put in on Novatouch TKL.

[of_sam]

I know you are very confident in your kitting. Out of curiosity, I checked MoDoL prices for Base, Additon, Numpad, Spacebars and Obscure. Compared with the same compatibility + very similar amount of keys, MoDoL was $35 more than Olivia++. If you take out ISO, it was $60 cheaper for near equivalent keys. Obviously there are minor differences between the keys you are given, and Olivia uses one stock GMK color. Help me understand, am I missing something?

[SirTimmyTimbit]

...here a few annointed layouts get all the goodness of a lowered price, while whoever deviates, even if slightly, gets shafted with subsidizing both each other within the smaller non-annointed group AND the annointed group's lowered price, while people in the latter group only reap the advantages. This is unfair...

Doesn't one group always end up subsidizing another group? I mean your argument still holds if there was a more fleshed out, $140 base kit? In that scenario people with 60, 65 and TKL would have subsidized the niche group.

[ackzot]

I know you are very confident in your kitting. Out of curiosity, I checked MoDoL prices for Base, Additon, Numpad, Spacebars and Obscure. Compared with the same compatibility + very similar amount of keys, MoDoL was $35 more than Olivia++. If you take out ISO, it was $60 cheaper for near equivalent keys. Obviously there are minor differences between the keys you are given, and Olivia uses one stock GMK color. Help me understand, am I missing something?

I don't think you are missing anything. Olivia ++ base kit ($110) is $10 more than MoDoL base kit at 99.99. Olivia gives you a numpad in the base while MoDoL does not (there maybe a few other key differences). Distilling MoDoL down is the key feature of being able to advertise a sub-100 base kit. And it creates economic value for each purchaser of the base kit as long as they are standard 60, 65 , tkl users by saving them $10.

You lose overall value ($10 numpad vs $35 addon kit numpad), but if you are not a numpad user, that's dead weight value and a $10 cheaper base kit is better. Child kit purchasers pay a much larger price since they are paying additional sorting and overhead premium for each kit. The more child kits you purchase, the more this premium hurts you.

So when you point this out, this is actually by design.  The discussion by detractors is really a more meta discussion. Is much lower child kit sales compared to base a function of low interest OR is it a function of the price premium being too high hence people who want it won't pay it. Another lighter discussion is if a few more keys are added, does it create actually value for the cost or simply dead weight value for the majority.

PS sorry for not shutting up despite what i stated in a prior post.

[Hell-es]

Maybe offer the small and the big basekit  ) numbers should be high enough

[bobgr8]

While I do appreciate the effort to reduce the entry barrier by lowering costs, I strongly disagree with it

I bought GMK 9009 r3, base and spacebar kit, never expecting that I'll need another kit.

But now, even before 9009 is shipped, I feel I would need the Numpad and the extra 2.25U right shift.

Smaller base kits aren't sustainable in the long term, especially when Olivia++ did so well with a cheap base set.

My latest GMK purchase, Noel has everything for $135, Numpad + extra shifts (+ISO), A similar compatibility for this would cost much more, as pointed out by others. A person willing to pay $100 for plastic that shines is willing to pay $120 for plastic that shines and he can actually use.

This is because the designers and my views diverge, maybe the even communities view diverge. I do not buy keycaps thinking which keyboard I'll put then on, I would like to swap keycaps and who knows what layout would be popular in the future. Alice layout is gaining popularity, maybe it'll decline in the future, 2.25U and 2U may or may not be popular in the future. But how much does one piece of plastic cost among 100 other pieces of plastic?

With that being said, I really like the set, but would not buy at this pricing. For I know, It's not sustainable for the hobby and me, which thrives on customisation. This requires more keys. Would it be that much expensive to add Numpad and some shifts to the base?

MoDo was clearly sellable at $95 and profitable at $100. I'm guessing this too would start at $95 then jump to $100. By adding the kits to the base how much of a difference could it make, a few dollars perhaps.

[itsmartin]

My latest GMK purchase, Noel has everything for $135, Numpad + extra shifts (+ISO), A similar compatibility for this would cost much more, as pointed out by others.

The other side to this is that for someone who will only use the base kit as is, they're saving 25% with this as opposed to Noel for the same keys they want.

[bobgr8]

I agree. This is exactly what I thought with 9009 that I wont need more keys. It dosent hurt to add some more keys to the base itself. for marginally more money. It reduces headaches for GMK, the vendors and buyers.

[scoopbb]

this isnt about community. its about making money lol. at the same time im good with as cheap as possible base kit especially if it has a 40s kit since 40s is all i use. selfish? yes but at least its actually a usable set for me and if enough people buy maybe more sets will have my support. I know for damn sure if you had expensive base kits they still wouldn't have 40s kits integrated and i'd end up spending more money and odds of 40s kit hitting get even lower.

[Surostu]

...." It's not sustainable for the hobby and me, which thrives on customisation"....

Ill ask, what comes first, chicken or the egg? Do we add maximum support at a high cost that slows down the hobbies uptake by non elitists/hardcore customisation guys? (aka non standard 60/65/tkl people) Or do we reduce the cost to break down the largest barrier to entry for the majority, which might eventually result in subsidization in cost for those who need more keys via increased total sales (if the community stays positive and doesn't go full money hungry Drop style it should, in theory). Either way, in the short term there are winners and losers. I do however trust that a rising tide raises all boats. Think of all the potential newcomers more willing to put GMK sets on their Ducky 60s propping up the rest of the hobby via profits. Keen AF for cheaper base!!! I hope the vendors make all the money!!

[houkiaa]

Jesus has answered out prayers!!! Can't wait 

[Paddel06]

Might be in for a Norde Kit, but I'd like to at least see AltGr keys added to it.

[Shakey]

Damn that clout kit looks like calm depths. Similar to how modo was close to muted.

[Oblotzky]

Damn that clout kit looks like calm depths. Similar to how modo was close to muted.

It's very far from Calm Depths IMO, more like Modern Mint Dolch.

[neutralstate]

thank you for the reduced base kit, will be getting one.

[depletedvespene]

My latest GMK purchase, Noel has everything for $135, Numpad + extra shifts (+ISO), A similar compatibility for this would cost much more, as pointed out by others.

The other side to this is that for someone who will only use the base kit as is, they're saving 25% with this as opposed to Noel for the same keys they want.

And this other side depends on the fact that part of this "25% savings" is obtained through the subsidy of those who don't "only use the base kit", who in turn DO NOT get any subsidy in return, but instead are shafted into paying two premiums. And that IS A serious problem.

[depletedvespene]

...." It's not sustainable for the hobby and me, which thrives on customisation"....

Ill ask, what comes first, chicken or the egg? Do we add maximum support at a high cost that slows down the hobbies uptake by non elitists/hardcore customisation guys? (aka non standard 60/65/tkl people) Or do we reduce the cost to break down the largest barrier to entry for the majority, which might eventually result in subsidization in cost for those who need more keys via increased total sales (if the community stays positive and doesn't go full money hungry Drop style it should, in theory). Either way, in the short term there are winners and losers. I do however trust that a rising tide raises all boats. Think of all the potential newcomers more willing to put GMK sets on their Ducky 60s propping up the rest of the hobby via profits. Keen AF for cheaper base!!! I hope the vendors make all the money!!

This is most definitely NOT a "chicken or egg" situation. And your trust is more optimistic than it should: a "tide that raises all boats" would have "potential newcomers" accepting the massdrop-grade kits and never even bothering to try out ANYthing else because of that cost barrier, a problem that would be amplified by greedy sellers wanting to maximize profits while at the same time pretending the whole thing is "community minded".

This is NOT a good direction. Let's all steer this thing somewhere else.

[sevenseacat]

so.... Colemak?

[bobgr8]

...." It's not sustainable for the hobby and me, which thrives on customisation"....

Ill ask, what comes first, chicken or the egg? Do we add maximum support at a high cost that slows down the hobbies uptake by non elitists/hardcore customisation guys? (aka non standard 60/65/tkl people) Or do we reduce the cost to break down the largest barrier to entry for the majority, which might eventually result in subsidization in cost for those who need more keys via increased total sales (if the community stays positive and doesn't go full money hungry Drop style it should, in theory). Either way, in the short term there are winners and losers. I do however trust that a rising tide raises all boats. Think of all the potential newcomers more willing to put GMK sets on their Ducky 60s propping up the rest of the hobby via profits. Keen AF for cheaper base!!! I hope the vendors make all the money!!

This is most definitely NOT a "chicken or egg" situation. And your trust is more optimistic than it should: a "tide that raises all boats" would have "potential newcomers" accepting the massdrop-grade kits and never even bothering to try out ANYthing else because of that cost barrier, a problem that would be amplified by greedy sellers wanting to maximize profits while at the same time pretending the whole thing is "community minded".

This is NOT a good direction. Let's all steer this thing somewhere else.

I completely agree, the drop GMK Samurai kits are pretty useless for custom mechs. That is a stripped base set (too stripped IMHO).

May I quote Adam Smith: "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. We address ourselves not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities, but of their advantages"

It's pretty clear, the vendors aren't here to "save us from the aftermarket costs" but to make profits. And that is ok, but please don't fake it.

Destroying the hobby in the same of saving it. Worthlessly reducing the base kit, faking to provide "value" while it stripes it away.

[CrazyAssMonkey]

Well this is becoming contentious...

[mvkoto]

Well this is becoming contentious...

+1

[LXVRGS]

Well this is becoming contentious...

as is tradition

[CrazyAssMonkey]

Well this is becoming contentious...

as is tradition

Though I can see why some people aren't happy with the base kit size and admittedly I am biased due to the fact that it covers all I need. I'd think this method worked best for the majority and for business as well. I would have assumed this would be the most logical way of running it, but I am not well versed in the economy if these things so if I am missing something I'd appreciate some information.

[reaLFX]

Interested! count me in! first GMK set!

[ackzot]

After studying the sets, for Modern kit, it would be nice to include 1.75 Function Key (3 line symbol). If not possible for this GB, maybe for future GB. This is assuming GMK has a mold for it. Not necessary per say, just nice to have.

Also, not sure on the economic feasibility of it,  but maybe include discounts if more than 1 child kit is purchased. One child kit is listed price. If two child kits purchased, discount is $5-7. If three are purchased, then discount is $10-14. If four are purchased then $15-21. Even if this cannot be done for this GB, maybe something to consider for the future.

Thanks.

[FearsomeCubedWarrior]

Also, not sure on the economic feasibility of it,  but maybe include discounts if more than 1 child kit is purchased. One child kit is listed price. If two child kits purchased, discount is $5-7. If three are purchased, then discount is $10-14. If four are purchased then $15-21. Even if this cannot be done for this GB, maybe something to consider for the future.

Thanks.

It's not working this way.

[ackzot]

Also, not sure on the economic feasibility of it,  but maybe include discounts if more than 1 child kit is purchased. One child kit is listed price. If two child kits purchased, discount is $5-7. If three are purchased, then discount is $10-14. If four are purchased then $15-21. Even if this cannot be done for this GB, maybe something to consider for the future.

Thanks.

It's not working this way.

Not sure what your point is. Many things in life work on the principle the more you buy, the more likelihood you get a discount. Most suggestions in this thread are requesting to add keys to the base kit or collapse child kits into the base. I think most of us know that's not gonna work that way either. Why not approach it a different way?

In the past, discount schemes didn't work since the community was not big enough. It was at times a struggle to make MOQ. However because of that smaller community, the base kit was more featured (and expensive) to attract more people to reach MOQ. If the community is so large that you can have a stripped base kit with numerous child kits, why not help folks who buy multiple child kits?

That being said, I can think of reasons why not. It could be logistically difficult for Dixie to track and calculate the discounts on their web platform. Or it may not be cost effective to offer any discount cause the margins are too small to offer anything on the child kits. Or maybe multiple child kit buyers are so few in number it doesn't matter. I don't know. But if the margins do support small discounts, then it may help increase sales of child kits and may help vendors lessen the probability of buying child kits just to make MOQ.

[Oblotzky]

Also, not sure on the economic feasibility of it,  but maybe include discounts if more than 1 child kit is purchased. One child kit is listed price. If two child kits purchased, discount is $5-7. If three are purchased, then discount is $10-14. If four are purchased then $15-21. Even if this cannot be done for this GB, maybe something to consider for the future.

Thanks.

It's not working this way.

Not sure what your point is. Many things in life work on the principle the more you buy, the more likelihood you get a discount. Most suggestions in this thread are requesting to add keys to the base kit or collapse child kits into the base. I think most of us know that's not gonna work that way either. Why not approach it a different way?

In the past, discount schemes didn't work since the community was not big enough. It was at times a struggle to make MOQ. However because of that smaller community, the base kit was more featured (and expensive) to attract more people to reach MOQ. If the community is so large that you can have a stripped base kit with numerous child kits, why not help folks who buy multiple child kits?

That being said, I can think of reasons why not. It could be logistically difficult for Dixie to track and calculate the discounts on their web platform. Or it may not be cost effective to offer any discount cause the margins are too small to offer anything on the child kits. Or maybe multiple child kit buyers are so few in number it doesn't matter. I don't know. But if the margins do support small discounts, then it may help increase sales of child kits and may help vendors lessen the probability of buying child kits just to make MOQ.

Implementation should be possible with a coupon App for Shopify which most vendors use, but not 100% sure. Might still be tricky.

The main issue is profit margins. Group Buys already operate on very tight margins for the most part (there are exceptions of course). Something like the cost of air freight across the Atlantic ocean increasing by 2-3x due to COVID-19 has already ****ed over some vendors.

[DennyTwist]

YES Done deal! ISO Nordic on top of that! June 3rd Im there!

[leexy]

Also, not sure on the economic feasibility of it,  but maybe include discounts if more than 1 child kit is purchased. One child kit is listed price. If two child kits purchased, discount is $5-7. If three are purchased, then discount is $10-14. If four are purchased then $15-21. Even if this cannot be done for this GB, maybe something to consider for the future.

but muh profits

[Vigrith]

Worthlessly reducing the base kit, faking to provide "value" while it stripes it away.

Worthlessly? The small(er) base kits have probably saved me like 2 grand at this point LOL

[JJ]

how much would the base kit cost?

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