Author Topic: Is it that bad?  (Read 4944 times)

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Offline Arc'xer

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Is it that bad?
« on: Sun, 07 March 2010, 04:18:53 »
Is gaming with a trackball THAT bad?

 I picked up a Kensington orbit for around 25 dollars. I wanted to pick up a cheap trackball and later move on into something better at least pick up some skill with the trackball first. Plus they didn't have the Logitech marble so what the heck, I picked it up. (Was looking into the Kensington Orbit 7.0, but just couldn't plop down 90 dollars for one. Actually a number of different trackballs like the CST, DT225, etc.etc. But in a previous thread I posted that finding information was slim, very niche or hard to find.)

 And even though on the desktop it moved smoothly and quickly maybe not as quick as my Deathadder(1800) but I can literally make the orbit lose control. Even skip in place until the sensor could reset and read the movements again, just flicking the ball not even half a rotation. In some cases the speed of moving it along my fingers would cause it to malfunction. And gaming I mean is it normally for it to be so glitchy it felt like playing with a joystick or something. Movement was so inconsistent continuous readjustment just looked like a joystick aim(not as extreme as the video but conveys the image well). Could hardly draw straight lines or circles, pointer jerking into different directions, could be my fingers fault or the engine.

 I'm kinda disappointed and I know it usually takes a while to get accustomed to them but I don't have trouble except for twitchy little movements from my own fingers when using the desktop(let's just say if I had to use one, I won't complain) but gaming it's so imprecise and so just overly sensitive. Not sure how to really convey it, one of those events that you need to use it to know what I mean.

 Is it just the fact the orbit has such a horrible engine or are all trackballs inherently this way?

 Are they incapable of playing games and whatnot. I'll be honest I don't really suffer from RSI, I do have some I'd say stress where I feel certain discomfort on my arm or wrist here and there, sometimes it becomes unbearable. But it's more out of wanting to try something new for a change for the most part. I don't hate trackballs but it's a disappointing factor.

(I should point out that I use a very low sensitivity. In some cases I'm using the entire 19" of my puretrak talent mousepad for a 180°, so we are talking in some games 100cm/360, although lately I've changed it up). I know I'm kinda shooting myself in the foot asking, someone is probably thinking I told you so or well yeah they are good for some things but not for others.

Offline Rajagra

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Is it that bad?
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 07 March 2010, 04:41:56 »
I think all of the trackballs I've used get that effect if you flick the ball really fast. Having said that, mice do too, it's just less obvious (you rarely chuck the mouse across the desk then watch to see what the cursor does!)

I have a Kensington Orbit Optical connected now, it doesn't seem anywhere near as bad as you are getting. Might be worth checking to see if the sensor is clean and there are no trapped hairs.

There are only 2 inherent problems using trackballs for gaming.
  • If sensitivity is too low, you can't make the movements you need without lifting your finger and repositioning it (analogous to lifting a mouse when you run out of space.)
  • It can be harder to move the ball at the same time as holding buttons down. Thumb-operated trackballs may be better in this respect, but I don't like them, so I count this as a real disadvantage. :smile:

Offline ch_123

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Is it that bad?
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 07 March 2010, 10:06:10 »
Have played L4D2 quite successfully with my trackball. I find it particularly useful  to swivel the ball around when completely surrounded by zombies :D

Offline Arc'xer

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Is it that bad?
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 07 March 2010, 13:44:47 »
The last mouse I had to lose control was some cheap Logitech mouse that came with the computer I bought, some years ago and even then it could handle it well. I mean I can flick my deathadder as hard as I want and it won't have any skipping or acceleration(positive/negative).

I really don't know what is going on with the orbit. I'm gonna return it but I was really inquiring on if a trackball can work for gaming?

Actually, that's a wrong question; too general. What I meant was even though I know and I've seen trackball mice work in games. Can a better one work as well as a mouse.

I really don't want to spend money on some expensive model like a Kensington expert or that CST which sounds the most interesting only to either have a similar experience or find it too overly cumbersome for said gaming. If you saw the video, although like I said extreme it wasn't not just accurate but not under my control.

Offline Rajagra

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Is it that bad?
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 07 March 2010, 14:11:07 »
I wonder if it's mouse acceleration that's causing the problem. MS likes to have it running even when you disable it in settings. It really messes up low sensitivity devices.

Offline Voixdelion

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Is it that bad?
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 14 April 2010, 22:36:37 »
Quote from: Arc'xer;162320

I really don't want to spend money on some expensive model like a Kensington expert or that CST which sounds the most interesting only to either have a similar experience or find it too overly cumbersome for said gaming. If you saw the video, although like I said extreme it wasn't not just accurate but not under my control.


Okay - From one who has tried almost every flavor of kensington trackball:  There is an entire Universe of difference between the Orbit and the Expert variety.  

Hoping to find a good experience without the price tag of the better product, I tried both the mechanical Orbit (blue ball that doesn't go bouncing merrily away if you knock it a bit) and the Optical version (gray sparkly ball that runs a merry chase and hides at inopportune moments.) I had been seeking the excellently smooth and precise control that I had experienced while doing data entry with a two-button Turbo mouse on a 22" CRT back in the 92's, but was sorely disappointed by these flimsy excuse for trackballs.  Though I found that the Mech version was actually superior in tracking control, neither was anywhere near what I remembered and so set in earnest to find a proper one used on ebay.

I have long fingers and hands, so the SIZE of the ball was crucial to feeling the control in the actual hand instead of wiggling my fingertips at the littler ones.   I do prefer the opto-mechanical badass metal bearings on the older variety to the Optical newer, but I could have maybe stayed longer to break the jewel bearings in on the Versions 7+ (which is reasonably reliably reported by others from the old skool to be equally smooth or close enough if you give it a little oil and elbow grease)  if only it weren't for the fact that they dropped the size of the ball down to 2".   I really liked the Scroll Ring Feature and the wireless and the color but I sacrificed those luxuries because I won't budge off the full 2.25" ball on the version 5.  

Note that there is no chasing of this one either. Despite it being freely removeable, I must actually turn the thing upside down to dislodge the weight on purpose.  I think the heft of the ball is what aids the smooth tracking also because it just isn't as flighty.  

On the other hand, the Orbit ball inspired a bit of creativity with a wire hanger loop I actually melted and epoxied into the plastic just smaller than the diameter of the ball to save myself the easter egg hunting time whenever it was lightly jostled while the cat jumped on my lap.  (That was such a very worthwhile adjustment that after my success, I used to taunt the ball whilst shaking it upside down in revenge for all the faces full of dust-bunny it caused me. :heh: I highly recommend it to anyone else experiencing this.)  

 Now my hubby is logitech mouse man who has always been a bit skeptical of my Trackball addiction, liking his MX revolution and Gyro type arm-wavy pointing; but even he was very comfortable with the version 7 Expert, proclaiming it a very satisfactory device that he could definitely get used to.  Just recently though, he had misplaced some bit of it and helped himself to my Version 5 while I was out [And he was NEVER EVER tempted to do such a thing before his exposure to the 7, btw - now my ancient relic is looking like a much better option than any fancy optical modern mouse in his arsenal.]  I am needing to be cordless mousing during a lot of shuffling and remodel-modding on my rig ATM; unplugging peripherals back and forth between unstable machines is tedious, so I haven't pestered him to return it yet.

But I notice he hasn't offered it, either.  

I can speak with a fair amount of confidence that your experience with the pricier offerings will be at least in accordance with the increased cost if not disproportionately much better.  I would rather use my optical mouse more often than those, but they do sometimes help loosen up a frozen wrist on occasion.  Try one out if you can, maybe a demo model in a retail store if you are uncertain though, and I think you will notice the difference right away.
"The more you tolerate each other, the less enforcement will happen."-iMav

Offline wellington1869

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Is it that bad?
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 14 April 2010, 23:08:20 »
I used to fly planes in BF1942 with a trackball, with a fair amount of success.  I wouldnt use it for infantry though.

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Offline smuvmoney

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Is it that bad?
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 20 April 2010, 14:06:52 »
I believe that the Orbit trackball with the scroll wheel exhibits the ball falling out issue much less than the previous version.  I gave up on the earlier Orbit trackball for that reason - the newer one with the scroll wheel is a lot harder to remove simply by spinning.  It can still be done, but you actually have to try to do it.

I personally use an Expert Mouse and have had no issues with it (outside of my own general lack of skill in video games as I get older :smile: ).  With the new Trackballworks Beta, I am also finding the Slimblade Trackball to work really nicely in video games as well - chording issues aside.  As Voix mentioned, the size of the ball does make a huge difference.

Offline kishy

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Is it that bad?
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 20 April 2010, 14:09:58 »
I've got the non-scroll version of the Orbit.

It is NOT POSSIBLE for the ball to fall out. It just can't. You need to push it out forcefully with the "button" on the bottom.

Now if the ball has been repeatedly shoved in and out (yeah yeah yeah...) that'd be a different story, because the casing would have presumably loosened up around it.
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Offline smuvmoney

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Whcih version of the Orbit?
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 20 April 2010, 14:47:47 »
Quote from: kishy;173833
I've got the non-scroll version of the Orbit.

It is NOT POSSIBLE for the ball to fall out. It just can't. You need to push it out forcefully with the "button" on the bottom.

Now if the ball has been repeatedly shoved in and out (yeah yeah yeah...) that'd be a different story, because the casing would have presumably loosened up around it.


Which version of the orbit?  I was making reference to this one being sold: Orbit Optical Trackball .  If the OP was making reference to the older blue ball version (no jokes please :smile: ), then my apologies for the misunderstanding.  I owned the one in the link and I was able to knock the ball out of place - as in have it lift off the sensor and lose tracking - pretty easily.  I could even make it fall out almost on command.  If you have an image of said Orbit with the push button, please share.  I remember what it looks like, but I don't remember where the actual push button was.

With the scroll wheel version of the Orbit, the ball is in a similar housing structure to the Logitech Trackman Marble (formerly Marble Mouse), making it more resilient to being knocked out and about.
« Last Edit: Tue, 20 April 2010, 14:52:44 by smuvmoney »

Offline kishy

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Is it that bad?
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 20 April 2010, 14:52:31 »
Alright, that's annoying. Dumb Kensington and their lack of discernable versions...



This is exclusively what I was referring to. Sorry if this is not what you meant.
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Offline Arc'xer

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Is it that bad?
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 20 April 2010, 15:58:49 »
I've pretty much given up on the whole trackball thing. I will say I do find the expert and more so the CST-Ltrac the most interesting. Unless otherwise I think for the time being sticking with the mouse is the better option. I'm still open to a trackball just with the relatively lack of information as well as see-saw reviews, kinda disappointed with it's lack of advancement.

But I think I've inherently eliminated the desire on a trackball from the way I use the mouse. Like I've said before I do use a low sensitivity, actually a few months back I raised it by half. Around 50cm/360(19"/360) instead of 100cm/360(40"/360), kept finding myself running out of mouse pad and not enough space to achieve the capability to defend myself.

I honestly think that it's just me wanting to find the better mouse. Not to say that I don't enjoy using a mouse.

Offline Voixdelion

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Is it that bad?
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 22 April 2010, 20:51:02 »
Yup - that optical grey ball is the little bugger that had me on my hands and knees all the time.  Now its sitting in a plastic bin to my right awaiting my finding the base which has gone MIA now.  Should've never removed my hanger mod...  I also had one that was more properly housed like Kishy, which I maybe preferred the feel of even though it wasn't as smooth on a diagonal or non-axis oriented motion.  The optical Orbit and even the optical Expert always seemed a bit "scratchier" than the bearing models to me in general.  I can't say what they are like for any gaming applications tho since I don't really game beyond simple stuff like "bejewelled," but the mouse rowing gets quite tiresome for me even when the speed is set for maximum pointer distance over minimal mouse travel.  Even so anything short of the 2.25" large diameter feels inefficient to me also.  


I just bought my third Kensington Expert, old skool version 5.  I just luv em.  Soon onto the pricier wish list stuff:  Webble foot rest, Freedom Chair, and some kind of rolling desk apparatus/kb/mouse tray for the whole shebang and I can finally rest in total comfortable cyberspace without my nerve endings going numb after 45 minutes.
"The more you tolerate each other, the less enforcement will happen."-iMav

Offline Voixdelion

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Is it that bad?
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 23 April 2010, 06:58:49 »
Quote from: kishy;173854
Alright, that's annoying. Dumb Kensington and their lack of discernable versions...


I second that.  Really made my early research take exponentially longer than it should have...  Even a simple number with the same name would've been useful : "Orbit II" vs "Orbit V" or the like...  Even though the Expert line does have versions assigned, they are never referenced directly or in the model#.  Posted a thread about compiling database with info and pics and ripster suggested a wiki similar to the model m one.  Have been a bit preoccupied and haven't gotten around to it yet, tho
"The more you tolerate each other, the less enforcement will happen."-iMav

Offline kishy

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Is it that bad?
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 23 April 2010, 10:11:48 »
Expert Mouse v5?



Just wanna make sure we're talking about the same version 5, you know, because of the inconsistencies...
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Offline Voixdelion

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Is it that bad?
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 26 April 2010, 21:06:55 »
Yup.  I have one that appears to be the same as that all around.

I also have a 64217 USB/Ps2 adaptered model with a non-removable cord and without a version number on the label, which is what I  am using currently with a brand new black cue ball which seems to track exceptionally well.  Thing is so many of these look exactly the same!    I think it is still somewhere in the 5.X version range though I won't know for sure till I can consult the packing for the NIB I found on ebay - arrival is imminent, however.

Also have tried the optical wireless black one with scroll ring, but don't know what version (I'm thinking 7.x? I don't think its 8 ) that is because I actually prefer the ones with the steel ball bearings like yours so they got my primary attention when  researching.   There is also at this very moment also a two button version of the "expert" mouse on ebay also, older variety with adb and serial which surely carries a much earlier version number.
"The more you tolerate each other, the less enforcement will happen."-iMav