[IC]New Original 'Panda' Linear Switch

[_ODIN_]

Cool

[Starston3]

While happy this is happening, I don't quite understand why. The reason panda switches have become sought after is to create holy pandas and with several parties creating tactile switches similar or better than holy pandas... 

What I'm getting at is. Why create a switch which most people would need 2 types of switches to make a good tactile switch, when there will be a single switch that will give a similar or better experience, other than just switch science?

[dario]

several parties creating tactile switches similar or better than holy pandas...

And those would be?

What I'm getting at is. Why create a switch which most people would need 2 types of switches to make a good tactile switch

Actually, it would be good idea to create new Panda without any kind of stem. Just two-piece housing and a leaf.

Price would be lower for sure, and nobody is going to use Panda stem anyway.

[oldcat]

While happy this is happening, I don't quite understand why. The reason panda switches have become sought after is to create holy pandas and with several parties creating tactile switches similar or better than holy pandas... 

What I'm getting at is. Why create a switch which most people would need 2 types of switches to make a good tactile switch, when there will be a single switch that will give a similar or better experience, other than just switch science?

I think the IP of Halo is with Massdrop, it's unlikely you can get the stem alone. Probably same situation for Panda as it's unlikely manufacturer is willing to just sell the case for cheaper.

[Acereconkeys]

I'll believe this when there's samples/more information.

Cool you've apparently taken up the saddle, as evidenced by this thread a lot of people are interested, but there's no real point caring until there's some actual substance here.

my 2c

[Vigrith]

several parties creating tactile switches similar or better than holy pandas...

And those would be?

What I'm getting at is. Why create a switch which most people would need 2 types of switches to make a good tactile switch

Actually, it would be good idea to create new Panda without any kind of stem. Just two-piece housing and a leaf.

Price would be lower for sure, and nobody is going to use Panda stem anyway.

Myself and a few other people I know actually like stock pandas a lot. I'd rather that over the holy version any day, but I'm also very much biased toward linear. MX tactiles suck.

Either way, point being at least make it an option to buy a full switch for those of us who want it.

[Starston3]

several parties creating tactile switches similar or better than holy pandas...

And those would be?

As of now, Hako royals are similar, I know that is KBDfans is working on holy panda clone, and of course Zeal has stated his V2 Zealiios will be more tactile than Holy Pandas.

[oldcat]

several parties creating tactile switches similar or better than holy pandas...

And those would be?

As of now, Hako royals are similar, I know that is KBDfans is working on holy panda clone, and of course Zeal has stated his V2 Zealiios will be more tactile than Holy Pandas.

IMHO tactility itself does not make holy panda so unique; it's the smoothness, and the rounded bump starting from the top

[SuperVan]

I mean, it's obvious that pretty much nobody wants to use Pandas as they are. The real reason why people went nuts over these switches is frankenswitch market and combining with either Halo True, Halo Clear or Otemu stems.

Now, making another run of Pandas looks like a difficult job from more than one perspective. First of all, original molds are supposed to be destroyed. Second, material that used to make Panda tops is thought to be POM, but lately it has been proven that it actually isn't. Instead, it's some unusual nylon mixture.

Without extensive consultation with original makers, I highly doubt it's possible to make another run anything like the first one, because you need to have:

- exact dimensions (we've all seen how badly +/-0.1mm can **** things up on recent example of Box switches)

- exact nylon mixture used (otherwise, they wont feel or sound the same)

But, with all that being said, I'm not saying it's not possible to make someting as good, or maybe even much better than the first run. For example, maybe real POM tops, or even complete POM housing would provide even better platform for frankenswitches.

Anyway, I'll wait for reviews. If prominent community members say it's good - then it's good.

And I hope this whole thread is not just a trollfest.

Thanks for your comment. I've already invited Walkerstop to test New Pandas.  The video which you post are made by him. It made by the same manufactory. I will invite some professional guys to design a new stem or new switch later, but not this GB.

[SuperVan]

Let’s try our best to bring that panda back instead of paying 6 bucks per piece after market

Thanks for your support. It will come true.

[KaosJ]

I'm skeptical. Do you have samples?

Skeptical too. Pete said the exact same thing about a year ago but still... nothing of nothing :/

[KaosJ]

several parties creating tactile switches similar or better than holy pandas...

And those would be?

As of now, Hako royals are similar, I know that is KBDfans is working on holy panda clone, and of course Zeal has stated his V2 Zealiios will be more tactile than Holy Pandas.

IMHO tactility itself does not make holy panda so unique; it's the smoothness, and the rounded bump starting from the top

This.
If it was just the tactility, cheap meme switches might be close, even an o-ring behind the leaf could be tactile as the panda for just $0.4 but still that's not going to be perfect like a panda.

[dario]

I'm just gonna C/P part of the discussion over here from reddit. This is the OP talking.

You should present your old mold. It was made based on bsun's mold. You guys [Invyr & 27] changed the logo on top. Then you made a new mold of top by your classmate because of the prime cost (I'm not sure whose classmate). In fact, the yield rate of Pandas you made with new mold can only reach 70%. I use the original mold that not signed Invyr and made by you. New Pandas are made by same factory, and it will use the original mold. Topclack and Walkerstop will prove what I said about the material of my New Pandas.

Sooooo... If I managed to figure this out correctly, there are somewhere (presumably in China) original molds for making Pandas. These are not the same molds used to produce R1 Pandas, but instead, Invyr took these as a basis to make his own mould with his signature on it. This mold was not very good, as it had only 70% yield rate.

Anyway, this case is becoming even more interesting, basically material for a crime novel with lots of twist and turns LOL. Can't wait to see what happens next.

[KaosJ]

I'm just gonna C/P part of the discussion over here from reddit. This is the OP talking.

You should present your old mold. It was made based on bsun's mold. You guys [Invyr & 27] changed the logo on top. Then you made a new mold of top by your classmate because of the prime cost (I'm not sure whose classmate). In fact, the yield rate of Pandas you made with new mold can only reach 70%. I use the original mold that not signed Invyr and made by you. New Pandas are made by same factory, and it will use the original mold. Topclack and Walkerstop will prove what I said about the material of my New Pandas.

Sooooo... If I managed to figure this out correctly, there are somewhere (presumably in China) original molds for making Pandas. These are not the same molds used to produce R1 Pandas, but instead, Invyr took these as a basis to make his own mould with his signature on it. This mold was not very good, as it had only 70% yield rate.

Anyway, this case is becoming even more interesting, basically material for a crime novel with lots of twist and turns LOL. Can't wait to see what happens next.

Traduced means: there are no Invyr Panda molds (confirmed from OP of Invyr) but there are Bsuns molds, so he is probably trying to make Pandas from Bsuns.   
Which should be already tried and failed in the past afaik. 

[dario]

Traduced means: there are no Invyr Panda molds (confirmed from OP of Invyr) but there are Bsuns molds, so he is probably trying to make Pandas from Bsuns.

Well, aren't Invyr Pandas based on Bsuns too? If so, then the only possible route to try to make another run is same as he did.

Which should be already tried and failed in the past afaik

It's not like we're trying to make autonomus Mars lander for Christ's sake. I realize it may be a delicate job to reproduce a tiny piece of plastic, but it's far from impossible.

[KaosJ]

I don't know, i don't want to bash this guy anymore for today, but his credibility is really low, especially after the reddit post and the replies he did in that post.
He seems to confuse BSUN and PANDA multiple times and Panda's OG confirmed that there isn't any mold of old Panda around. 

Without even questioning that 27 first and later Pete probably tried all this route of making again a Panda as good as the first round, without success for more than a year and they had access to the same molds of this guy (27 had access to his old molds too theorically). 

[mopaska]

Traduced means: there are no Invyr Panda molds (confirmed from OP of Invyr) but there are Bsuns molds, so he is probably trying to make Pandas from Bsuns.

Well, aren't Invyr Pandas based on Bsuns too? If so, then the only possible route to try to make another run is same as he did.

Which should be already tried and failed in the past afaik

It's not like we're trying to make autonomus Mars lander for Christ's sake. I realize it may be a delicate job to reproduce a tiny piece of plastic, but it's far from impossible.

My impression (disclaimer: conjecture) is that the first run of Invyr Pandas got supremely lucky. The mold made things almost too tight - the housing was tight around the slider, and the fit between housing top and bottom was also extremely snug.

This is entirely based upon what the guy wrote in the reddit thread about how the R2 Panda samples, based on bsun molds, the top and bottom housing fit was looser.

I feel like this is why it's a challenge - they're trying to re-engineer a fortunate mistake. Especially if it's within tolerances. At that point you're having a mold machined and hoping for the error on the smaller side of the tolerances. I guess if you have cash to burn you can repeat this process until you get the desired result. But then again you can also hit random letters on a keyboard and eventually get a complete work of Shakespeare.

[dario]

Without even questioning that 27 first and later Pete probably tried all this route of making again a Panda as good as the first round, without success for more than a year and they had access to the same molds of this guy (27 had access to his old molds too theorically).

The exact mold that was used to produce Invyr Panda is damaged (in fact, it is worn out), and this is the part of the story that everybody agrees on (both Invyr and this new guy).

However, there is a possiblity Invyr simply didn't wanted to pay for the new mold and this guy did it from his own pocket, so there's that.

I'm trying to be optimistic here. 

[KaosJ]

However, there is a possiblity Invyr simply didn't wanted to pay for the new mold and this guy did it from his own pocket, so there's that.

No way, the demand was too high, they tried. 

[dario]

My impression (disclaimer: conjecture) is that the first run of Invyr Pandas got supremely lucky. The mold made things almost too tight - the housing was tight around the slider, and the fit between housing top and bottom was also extremely snug.

This is entirely based upon what the guy wrote in the reddit thread about how the R2 Panda samples, based on bsun molds, the top and bottom housing fit was looser.

I feel like this is why it's a challenge - they're trying to re-engineer a fortunate mistake. Especially if it's within tolerances. At that point you're having a mold machined and hoping for the error on the smaller side of the tolerances. I guess if you have cash to burn you can repeat this process until you get the desired result. But then again you can also hit random letters on a keyboard and eventually get a complete work of Shakespeare.

This is all very well thought out and put together. I would agree with you on all points but the last one.

Your hyperbole with Shakespeare is a vast overexaggeration. The way I see it - molds are pieces of stainless steel milled by CNC machines. Those machines have their steps of precision, so to speak. Let's say you can adjust steps of 0.1mm or 0.05mm. To work within switch tolerances (which are very low), you would probably have to make 4 or 5 of these until you hit the sweetspot. Considering one mold would cost somewhere around $1500 it's not cheap to play hit and miss, but it's doable.

[oldcat]

Hi, guys.

I'm really happy to announce that I will bring Panda Switch back.
It will be the same as the existing Panda Switch except the logo. （the same leaf, the same spring, the same stem...)
I will invite TopClack and Walkerstop to confirm if the New Pandas are as same as existing Pandas.

Update later after I received the samples.

Don't worry about the risk. GB will be ran after Topclack and Walkerstop confirmed.
I know too many guys hate me now because New Pandas is too closely related to their interests. So I won't reply before Topclack and Walkerstop confirmed

Hey buddy, don't be discouraged. Please get Panda out to the community.

[mopaska]

Considering one mold would cost somewhere around $1500 it's not cheap to play hit and miss, but it's doable.

You're right, but one would also need to sell quite a few switches to recoup the cost of making a couple molds just to hit the sweet spot

[dario]

No way, the demand was too high, they tried.

Actually, what they wrote is that they tried to make R2 using the same mold as R1 but the tolerances were off because mold was fixed and never the same as it was new.

They never said they tried to make another mold after that, at least I didn't saw that anywhere.

[KaosJ]

Considering one mold would cost somewhere around $1500 it's not cheap to play hit and miss, but it's doable.

You're right, but one would also need to sell quite a few switches to recoup the cost of making a couple molds just to hit the sweet spot

Zeal coff coff.

(i'm sorry, just kidding)

[KaosJ]

No way, the demand was too high, they tried.

Actually, what they wrote is that they tried to make R2 using the same mold as R1 but the tolerances were off because mold was fixed and never the same as it was new.

They never said they tried to make another mold after that, at least I didn't saw that anywhere.

If you mean OP of this post, he couldn't even touch the R1 panda mold. The only mold they could access should be the Bsun mold if the manifacturer allow it. 

[dario]

No, I mean Invyr.

[KaosJ]

No, I mean Invyr.

I mean, a $5 switch, request was so high, i'm sure they tried everything.  Probably Pete tried too later and is trying to do something since a year or so. 

Panda is a lot of money in demand, it would be stupid to think that they gived up so easy. 

Mark my words, what OP is offering is a BSUN with a fancy housing. 

[dario]

This whole discussion would be so much easier if only original Panda makers would be willing to chime in and explain what really happened.

[oldcat]

This whole discussion would be so much easier if only original Panda makers would be willing to chime in and explain what really happened.

I agree. Please chime in, original panda designers and makers. What REALLY happened?

[Restricted]

One of the original Panda makers did chime in, on reddit.

In-between that and his use of the words "don't worry about the risk," the only thing keeping me from calling this a scam is how he hasn't started taking money.

[oldcat]

One of the original Panda makers did chime in, on reddit.

In-between that and his use of the words "don't worry about the risk," the only thing keeping me from calling this a scam is how he hasn't started taking money.

This is just an IC though and to be fair, OP said he is sending samples to TopClack for reviews. I am sure if it's identical to the OG panda, many people will join a possible GB started by OP as opposed to paying $6 per piece on r/mm.

[Restricted]

This is just an IC though and to be fair, OP said he is sending samples to TopClack for reviews. I am sure if it's identical to the OG panda, many people will join a possible GB started by OP as opposed to paying $6 per piece on r/mm.

The words he's using and his denial rather than addressing of concerns is what has me worried this could be a scam. If he was taking money I'd 100% be convinced this was untruthful, right now I'm only about 50% given the evidence to the contrary and the lack of substance to his claims.

[oldcat]

This is just an IC though and to be fair, OP said he is sending samples to TopClack for reviews. I am sure if it's identical to the OG panda, many people will join a possible GB started by OP as opposed to paying $6 per piece on r/mm.

The words he's using and his denial rather than addressing of concerns is what has me worried this could be a scam. If he was taking money I'd 100% be convinced this was untruthful, right now I'm only about 50% given the evidence to the contrary and the lack of substance to his claims.

I agree. But it appears English is not his first language though, he may have had a hard time expressing things fully.
Anyway, I would wait to see TopClack's verdict.

[SuperVan]

This is just an IC though and to be fair, OP said he is sending samples to TopClack for reviews. I am sure if it's identical to the OG panda, many people will join a possible GB started by OP as opposed to paying $6 per piece on r/mm.

The words he's using and his denial rather than addressing of concerns is what has me worried this could be a scam. If he was taking money I'd 100% be convinced this was untruthful, right now I'm only about 50% given the evidence to the contrary and the lack of substance to his claims.

I agree. But it appears English is not his first language though, he may have had a hard time expressing things fully.
Anyway, I would wait to see TopClack's verdict.

Sorry for my bad, and thanks for your explaining. I've edited. New Pandas won't let you down.

[Restricted]

Hey no worries. If you prove me wrong I'll be happy for ya, I just have my reservations at the moment.

[aviking]

Just do your thing, negative stuff is always there. In the end, if your product is good you'll sell it.
P.S
I missed the halo drop. Some folks on reddit\massdrop comments say it'll be available soon again, is that correct?

[Jkush463]

if this pans out im buying 200 lol cant wait.

[oldcat]

No, I mean Invyr.

I mean, a $5 switch, request was so high, i'm sure they tried everything.  Probably Pete tried too later and is trying to do something since a year or so. 

Panda is a lot of money in demand, it would be stupid to think that they gived up so easy. 

Mark my words, what OP is offering is a BSUN with a fancy housing.

Don't be so sure, my friend. We will find out soon!

[oldcat]

Why are people being so upset about this? I don't understand.

OP is probably offering a lower priced Panda, and he is letting TopClack test and review the switches. If it does not live up to the advertisement, I am sure TopClack will provide a verdict and no one will buy it. I don't understand where the risk comes from at this point. As consumers, we are just getting more choices.

[wholypantalones]

Return of the terrible linear switches that are only hyped because the leaf supposedly makes mediocre tactile switches.

Hopefully this gb goes smoother than the original one.

[Solotov]

Will wait to see the feedback from TopClack 

[phorx]

If they’re able to come through with a switch that’s identical to the original pandas, that’s great, but personally I don’t think it’s right to actually use the Panda name if the original makers aren’t involved.  This is particularly true given that the original makers are already rumoured to be doing the same thing...

Just call it something else.

[Aerizu]

If they’re able to come through with a switch that’s identical to the original pandas, that’s great, but personally I don’t think it’s right to actually use the Panda name if the original makers aren’t involved.  This is particularly true given that the original makers are already rumoured to be doing the same thing...

Just call it something else.

That's actually quite logical. Name it differently, and market it as something that is based from the Invyr Panda.

I think that would alleviate the drama at the very least.
(Inb4 "Holy Kuma")

[Vadurr]

Holy Ayylmao's

[Sissy]

If it happens it happens, Good for OP wanting to recreate identical or any other party for that matter.

That said I wish someone would start doing Aristotle clones!

[GeneriksGiraffe]

Holy Ayylmao's

Make the stem red and just call it a Red Panda

[GeneriksGiraffe]

If it happens it happens, Good for OP wanting to recreate identical or any other party for that matter.

That said I wish someone would start doing Aristotle clones!

My dude, theres an [IC] for aristotle stems on /r/mechmarket rn

[1023andy]

I just have a question about holy panda. If you use any other springs (not the panda spring), does the feel of holy panda changes?

[Sissy]

If it happens it happens, Good for OP wanting to recreate identical or any other party for that matter.

That said I wish someone would start doing Aristotle clones!

My dude, theres an [IC] for aristotle stems on /r/mechmarket rn

Just looked, Thank you for telling me!

[oldcat]

I just have a question about holy panda. If you use any other springs (not the panda spring), does the feel of holy panda changes?

I’ve used 62, 63.5, 65, 67, 68 on holy panda

It’s all very tactile, special smooth tactile