Author Topic: Alps Appreciation Thread  (Read 2435574 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline E3E

  • Posts: 2831
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #600 on: Wed, 03 February 2016, 13:09:09 »
seems like everyone is now hoarding their blue alps boards.

People have always hoarded them, but now that they are ultra-hyped you have people buying them at ridiculous prices.

Sad thing is that they aren't even worth the premium they're sold for.

Offline Blaise170

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1332
  • Location: Boston, MA
  • ALPS キーボード
    • XYZ
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #601 on: Wed, 03 February 2016, 14:05:11 »
Sad thing is that they aren't even worth the premium they're sold for.

I spent too much on mine at $120, but mine also came with a whole computer! I ended up selling the computer for about $60 though.  :)
I proxy anything including keyboards (キーボード / 鍵盤), from both Japan (日本) and China (中國). For more information, you may visit my dedicated webpage here: https://www.keyboards.es/proxying.html

View my current and past keyboards here: https://deskthority.net/wiki/User:Blaise170

Offline frogthejam19

  • Posts: 52
  • Location: Ephyra
  • Good Vibrations
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #602 on: Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:02:34 »
Sad thing is that they aren't even worth the premium they're sold for.

I spent too much on mine at $120, but mine also came with a whole computer! I ended up selling the computer for about $60 though.  :)

are you the person who bought the leading edge computer ?
"All is Well"

Offline iLLucionist

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 2734
  • Location: Netherlands
  • Topre is Love.
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #603 on: Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:30:39 »
Curious.. what's to love about alps? What sets it apart from other switches? Only alps I've ever felt was an apple keyboard like 15 years ago, so can't really remember it. Was the quietest keyboard I've ever typed on back in the day.
MJT2 Browns o-rings - HHKB White - ES-87 Smoke White Clears - 87UB 55g

Offline CPTBadAss

  • Woke up like this
  • Posts: 14363
    • Tactile Zine
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #604 on: Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:34:48 »
Curious.. what's to love about alps? What sets it apart from other switches? Only alps I've ever felt was an apple keyboard like 15 years ago, so can't really remember it. Was the quietest keyboard I've ever typed on back in the day.

I started hunting Alps because I was curious and there wasn't much popularity with them. It felt like I was digging through new territory. Plus I wanted to get into vintage boards and $2-30 a board was a great price point for me. I fell in love with how they feel too.

Offline njbair

  • Posts: 2825
  • Location: Cleveland, Ohio
  • I love the Powerglove. It's so bad.
    • nickbair.net
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #605 on: Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:35:50 »
Curious.. what's to love about alps? What sets it apart from other switches? Only alps I've ever felt was an apple keyboard like 15 years ago, so can't really remember it. Was the quietest keyboard I've ever typed on back in the day.

Here are some of the things that got me into Alps, perhaps others can weigh in with their thoughts.

1. The higher actuation point gives them a feel that's completely distinct from Cherry, although I suppose you either like this or dislike it.
2. They seem to be a more "forgiving" switch than Cherry, in that they tend not to bind if you strike them off-center.
3. When found clean and in good shape, vintage Alps are incredibly smooth.
4. Matias' modern Alps clones are widely available, relatively cheap, and although different from old complicated Alps, very good switches in their own right.
5. Vintage Alps boards are still pretty affordable and easy to find (as opposed to Cherry).
6. It's something new and different, which is alluring for a lot of folks.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
More
AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline iLLucionist

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 2734
  • Location: Netherlands
  • Topre is Love.
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #606 on: Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:52:11 »
Curious.. what's to love about alps? What sets it apart from other switches? Only alps I've ever felt was an apple keyboard like 15 years ago, so can't really remember it. Was the quietest keyboard I've ever typed on back in the day.

Here are some of the things that got me into Alps, perhaps others can weigh in with their thoughts.

1. The higher actuation point gives them a feel that's completely distinct from Cherry, although I suppose you either like this or dislike it.
2. They seem to be a more "forgiving" switch than Cherry, in that they tend not to bind if you strike them off-center.
3. When found clean and in good shape, vintage Alps are incredibly smooth.
4. Matias' modern Alps clones are widely available, relatively cheap, and although different from old complicated Alps, very good switches in their own right.
5. Vintage Alps boards are still pretty affordable and easy to find (as opposed to Cherry).
6. It's something new and different, which is alluring for a lot of folks.

Mmm interesting.. should try it once. But my wallet forbids me for now... this hobby is expensive!
MJT2 Browns o-rings - HHKB White - ES-87 Smoke White Clears - 87UB 55g

Offline Blaise170

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1332
  • Location: Boston, MA
  • ALPS キーボード
    • XYZ
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #607 on: Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:54:56 »
I like Alps because I think overall they all feel nicer than most other mechanical switches. The price point is a definite plus as you can get the more common Alps boards like an AEK II for around $30. Alps also seem to be smoother overall, even the Blue SKCM I'm typing on now seem much better than any of Cherry's clicky switches. Plus I think I kind of like Alps being a little less common than Cherry, as the selection is better for those of us who are always looking for Alps.
I proxy anything including keyboards (キーボード / 鍵盤), from both Japan (日本) and China (中國). For more information, you may visit my dedicated webpage here: https://www.keyboards.es/proxying.html

View my current and past keyboards here: https://deskthority.net/wiki/User:Blaise170

Offline iLLucionist

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 2734
  • Location: Netherlands
  • Topre is Love.
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #608 on: Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:55:42 »
I like Alps because I think overall they all feel nicer than most other mechanical switches. The price point is a definite plus as you can get the more common Alps boards like an AEK II for around $30. Alps also seem to be smoother overall, even the Blue SKCM I'm typing on now seem much better than any of Cherry's clicky switches. Plus I think I kind of like Alps being a little less common than Cherry, as the selection is better for those of us who are always looking for Alps.

Smoother even than topre?
MJT2 Browns o-rings - HHKB White - ES-87 Smoke White Clears - 87UB 55g

Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 6462
  • Location: 35°55'N, 83°53'W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #609 on: Wed, 03 February 2016, 16:00:45 »
should try it once. But my wallet forbids me

If you are comfortable with a soldering iron and transplanting a set of switches from one keyboard to another, the easiest and cheapest way to get a really good, straight-ANSI keyboard is to buy a Dell AT101(W) (they even come in black if that turns you on) and an Apple Extended Keyboard (AEK2 is even cheaper and more common) and transplant the switches from the Apple into the Dell. The Apple caps are also far superior but they don't have all the correct pieces to make a complete set.
State Freedom Caucus News 2024
Missouri state Senator Nick Schroer sponsors a bill that would allow senators to duel one another — in the Senate chambers! – legally.

Offline E3E

  • Posts: 2831
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #610 on: Wed, 03 February 2016, 16:18:04 »

1. The higher actuation point gives them a feel that's completely distinct from Cherry, although I suppose you either like this or dislike it.
2. They seem to be a more "forgiving" switch than Cherry, in that they tend not to bind if you strike them off-center.
3. When found clean and in good shape, vintage Alps are incredibly smooth.
4. Matias' modern Alps clones are widely available, relatively cheap, and although different from old complicated Alps, very good switches in their own right.
5. Vintage Alps boards are still pretty affordable and easy to find (as opposed to Cherry).
6. It's something new and different, which is alluring for a lot of folks.

1: I agree. Even in similarly weighted switches between the two switch families, the feel is always quite distinct. The reduced travel is another huge factor here, even if it's only a .5 mm difference. It's that extra bit of travel that the stem well in a Cherry MX switch provides versus what we have with Alps. I think this is what makes Alps SKCL Greens so unique when tried side by side with incredibly smooth vintage MX blacks. SKCL browns feel more like blacks, but that lack of that extra bit of travel still makes them hard to really compare.

2: I've heard mixed opinions here. Some say that MX are far more forgiving to off-center presses while Alps bind like crazy. I'm unsure. I've had some boards that have had switches that wouldn't play nice with off-center presses, and others like my Hammer that are just fine regardless of where they are pressed. If I had to give my opinion though, I agree with you. They aren't that sensitive to binding, and I also feel that they are not as wobbly as MX in terms of stem wobble.

Ironic, because my Hammer Alps build uses an MXAlps plate and the switches are incredibly solid, but in some native Alps boards, ie with straight up Alps plates, I've had switches "rock". With how they're mounted, they can sometimes have the tendency to rock back, but this isn't much of an issue.

3: So true. Alps are super smooth switches and their hefty design with that monster of a slider and the dry film lube makes them really robust and solid switches compared to the dainty Cherry MX.

4: I need to try these. This is the key to more Alps love though. If only Matias could get a foothold, but it'd take a revolution in the keyboard scene and consumer market for that to happen.

5: Yep, and I don't think the hype trains we're seeing are going to persist. That is, I think prices will equalize again in time. The fact Alps is more obscure than Cherry and is cheaper was a huge incentive to me.

6: Totally this. I love discovering new things about the Alps world every day! :D

Offline chyros

  • a.k.a. Thomas
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 3475
  • Location: The Netherlands
  • Hello and welcome.
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #611 on: Wed, 03 February 2016, 17:55:57 »
Curious.. what's to love about alps? What sets it apart from other switches? Only alps I've ever felt was an apple keyboard like 15 years ago, so can't really remember it. Was the quietest keyboard I've ever typed on back in the day.

Here are some of the things that got me into Alps, perhaps others can weigh in with their thoughts.

1. The higher actuation point gives them a feel that's completely distinct from Cherry, although I suppose you either like this or dislike it.
2. They seem to be a more "forgiving" switch than Cherry, in that they tend not to bind if you strike them off-center.
3. When found clean and in good shape, vintage Alps are incredibly smooth.
4. Matias' modern Alps clones are widely available, relatively cheap, and although different from old complicated Alps, very good switches in their own right.
5. Vintage Alps boards are still pretty affordable and easy to find (as opposed to Cherry).
6. It's something new and different, which is alluring for a lot of folks.
The sound, you're forgetting the sound! :D
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Offline jacobolus

  • Posts: 3661
  • Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #612 on: Wed, 03 February 2016, 18:39:08 »
5. Vintage Alps boards are still pretty affordable and easy to find (as opposed to Cherry).
Old MX keyboards are also pretty affordable. At any given time there are a bunch on ebay for ~$20–30.

Offline sean

  • Posts: 304
  • Location: United States
  • Mechanical newb
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #613 on: Wed, 03 February 2016, 18:41:29 »
Curious.. what's to love about alps? What sets it apart from other switches? Only alps I've ever felt was an apple keyboard like 15 years ago, so can't really remember it. Was the quietest keyboard I've ever typed on back in the day.

Here are some of the things that got me into Alps, perhaps others can weigh in with their thoughts.

1. The higher actuation point gives them a feel that's completely distinct from Cherry, although I suppose you either like this or dislike it.
2. They seem to be a more "forgiving" switch than Cherry, in that they tend not to bind if you strike them off-center.
3. When found clean and in good shape, vintage Alps are incredibly smooth.
4. Matias' modern Alps clones are widely available, relatively cheap, and although different from old complicated Alps, very good switches in their own right.
5. Vintage Alps boards are still pretty affordable and easy to find (as opposed to Cherry).
6. It's something new and different, which is alluring for a lot of folks.
The sound, you're forgetting the sound! :D

Or for me, the lack of sound while still maintaining a nice crisp tactile feel (matias quiet click)

Offline jacobolus

  • Posts: 3661
  • Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #614 on: Wed, 03 February 2016, 19:05:52 »
The main thing is that Cherry MX was designed to be a linear switch, and the other variants are done via a hacky and not-very-effective method of adding a little bump to the slider which briefly adds some extra plastic-on-plastic resistance.

If you like linear switches, then early (i.e. from the 1980s) MX black switches are an okay but not spectacular switch. If you add lubricant and swap the springs for lighter ones, and put them into a very sturdy case, they can be quite nice, even. As linear switches they don’t live up to e.g. Honeywell hall effect switches or various other fancy switches from the 1960s–1970s, but they’re widely available and don’t need any electrical engineering work to use with modern machines.

However, if you want a switch with some tactile response, then no Cherry MX switch is particularly effective. What you get instead is a linear switch with a little “speed bump” about halfway down the keypress, but which goes back to being linear afterward. Even in the two-piece slider design of MX blue, the overall feel (try with earplugs sometime) is a linear switch with a little speedbump halfway down.

Alps switches by contrast have a metal leaf spring providing resistance, which suddenly gives way once the slider passes a particular point, so you get a force curve which grows somewhat smoothly and then drops suddenly after the tactile point. There’s much more snap to it, sort of like plucking a string or something.

Offline njbair

  • Posts: 2825
  • Location: Cleveland, Ohio
  • I love the Powerglove. It's so bad.
    • nickbair.net
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #615 on: Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:11:43 »
The main thing is that Cherry MX was designed to be a linear switch, and the other variants are done via a hacky and not-very-effective method of adding a little bump to the slider which briefly adds some extra plastic-on-plastic resistance.

If you like linear switches, then early (i.e. from the 1980s) MX black switches are an okay but not spectacular switch. If you add lubricant and swap the springs for lighter ones, and put them into a very sturdy case, they can be quite nice, even. As linear switches they don’t live up to e.g. Honeywell hall effect switches or various other fancy switches from the 1960s–1970s, but they’re widely available and don’t need any electrical engineering work to use with modern machines.

However, if you want a switch with some tactile response, then no Cherry MX switch is particularly effective. What you get instead is a linear switch with a little “speed bump” about halfway down the keypress, but which goes back to being linear afterward. Even in the two-piece slider design of MX blue, the overall feel (try with earplugs sometime) is a linear switch with a little speedbump halfway down.

Alps switches by contrast have a metal leaf spring providing resistance, which suddenly gives way once the slider passes a particular point, so you get a force curve which grows somewhat smoothly and then drops suddenly after the tactile point. There’s much more snap to it, sort of like plucking a string or something.
I love this description, and the historical background you provided. I never paid attention to the force curve that closely, but Alps really do have a totally different feel after the click. Thanks for sharing this.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
More
AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline flabbergast

  • Posts: 234
  • Location: UK
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #616 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 02:04:45 »
Nice explanation! I was wondering about this. I've recently tried all three types of Matias switches and I find all three much better than the respective categories of Cherry MX. (The linear Cherries are possible to get to an acceptable state by tuning the springs and lubing, but Matias linears are already smooth from the factory.)

Now I'm trying the some ALPS and they are indeed very nice and smooth (so far have tried white clicky, and while stiffer than matias clicks, the sound and feel is indeed superior).

Comparison to Topre? Topre only exists in the "quiet click = tactile" category, and I do like them better than the respective switches in the matias world (I've yet to try a complicated tactile ALPS).

Offline bocahgundul

  • a seal
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1842
  • Location: sell me your 5k ples
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #617 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 06:21:48 »
Nice explanation! I was wondering about this. I've recently tried all three types of Matias switches and I find all three much better than the respective categories of Cherry MX. (The linear Cherries are possible to get to an acceptable state by tuning the springs and lubing, but Matias linears are already smooth from the factory.)

Now I'm trying the some ALPS and they are indeed very nice and smooth (so far have tried white clicky, and while stiffer than matias clicks, the sound and feel is indeed superior).

Comparison to Topre? Topre only exists in the "quiet click = tactile" category, and I do like them better than the respective switches in the matias world (I've yet to try a complicated tactile ALPS).
This guys know what his talking about  :thumb:

The main thing is that Cherry MX was designed to be a linear switch, and the other variants are done via a hacky and not-very-effective method of adding a little bump to the slider which briefly adds some extra plastic-on-plastic resistance.

If you like linear switches, then early (i.e. from the 1980s) MX black switches are an okay but not spectacular switch. If you add lubricant and swap the springs for lighter ones, and put them into a very sturdy case, they can be quite nice, even. As linear switches they don’t live up to e.g. Honeywell hall effect switches or various other fancy switches from the 1960s–1970s, but they’re widely available and don’t need any electrical engineering work to use with modern machines.

However, if you want a switch with some tactile response, then no Cherry MX switch is particularly effective. What you get instead is a linear switch with a little “speed bump” about halfway down the keypress, but which goes back to being linear afterward. Even in the two-piece slider design of MX blue, the overall feel (try with earplugs sometime) is a linear switch with a little speedbump halfway down.

Alps switches by contrast have a metal leaf spring providing resistance, which suddenly gives way once the slider passes a particular point, so you get a force curve which grows somewhat smoothly and then drops suddenly after the tactile point. There’s much more snap to it, sort of like plucking a string or something.
I have tried blue alps and orange alps and I think the closest one with topre is the orange alps but its a little bit different the bump of topre feels like a rounded bump as opposed to the orange alps which feels like a plastic hitting. I personally like topre better but Orange alps is really a good switch  :thumb:

Offline iLLucionist

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 2734
  • Location: Netherlands
  • Topre is Love.
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #618 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 07:01:01 »
should try it once. But my wallet forbids me

If you are comfortable with a soldering iron and transplanting a set of switches from one keyboard to another, the easiest and cheapest way to get a really good, straight-ANSI keyboard is to buy a Dell AT101(W) (they even come in black if that turns you on) and an Apple Extended Keyboard (AEK2 is even cheaper and more common) and transplant the switches from the Apple into the Dell. The Apple caps are also far superior but they don't have all the correct pieces to make a complete set.

AEK2 / AEK is ADB-bus right? Are there converts from ADB to USB? I guess I'll try to buy an AEK/2 first to see whether I like it. I already have the kb from the original macintosh (well, the 512K version; have the mac itself as well). So I guess I will end up with a small collection of them in the end...
MJT2 Browns o-rings - HHKB White - ES-87 Smoke White Clears - 87UB 55g

Offline iLLucionist

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 2734
  • Location: Netherlands
  • Topre is Love.
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #619 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 07:04:00 »
5. Vintage Alps boards are still pretty affordable and easy to find (as opposed to Cherry).
Old MX keyboards are also pretty affordable. At any given time there are a bunch on ebay for ~$20–30.

Problem for me is, I live in the EU (Netherlands), so I have to pay a lot more to get it into my country (shipping, after-tax, and sometimes import tax). My ~300 USD 87UB has an extra tax of around 60 USD once it passes the border. That's 20% "extra"!
MJT2 Browns o-rings - HHKB White - ES-87 Smoke White Clears - 87UB 55g

Offline iLLucionist

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 2734
  • Location: Netherlands
  • Topre is Love.
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #620 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 07:05:54 »
The main thing is that Cherry MX was designed to be a linear switch, and the other variants are done via a hacky and not-very-effective method of adding a little bump to the slider which briefly adds some extra plastic-on-plastic resistance.

If you like linear switches, then early (i.e. from the 1980s) MX black switches are an okay but not spectacular switch. If you add lubricant and swap the springs for lighter ones, and put them into a very sturdy case, they can be quite nice, even. As linear switches they don’t live up to e.g. Honeywell hall effect switches or various other fancy switches from the 1960s–1970s, but they’re widely available and don’t need any electrical engineering work to use with modern machines.

However, if you want a switch with some tactile response, then no Cherry MX switch is particularly effective. What you get instead is a linear switch with a little “speed bump” about halfway down the keypress, but which goes back to being linear afterward. Even in the two-piece slider design of MX blue, the overall feel (try with earplugs sometime) is a linear switch with a little speedbump halfway down.

Alps switches by contrast have a metal leaf spring providing resistance, which suddenly gives way once the slider passes a particular point, so you get a force curve which grows somewhat smoothly and then drops suddenly after the tactile point. There’s much more snap to it, sort of like plucking a string or something.

Sounds a bit like how Topre works? Up until the actuation point, relatively large amount of force is required. But after the rubber collapses, you almost instantly bottom out?
MJT2 Browns o-rings - HHKB White - ES-87 Smoke White Clears - 87UB 55g

Offline iLLucionist

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 2734
  • Location: Netherlands
  • Topre is Love.
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #621 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 07:08:27 »
Nice explanation! I was wondering about this. I've recently tried all three types of Matias switches and I find all three much better than the respective categories of Cherry MX. (The linear Cherries are possible to get to an acceptable state by tuning the springs and lubing, but Matias linears are already smooth from the factory.)

Now I'm trying the some ALPS and they are indeed very nice and smooth (so far have tried white clicky, and while stiffer than matias clicks, the sound and feel is indeed superior).

Comparison to Topre? Topre only exists in the "quiet click = tactile" category, and I do like them better than the respective switches in the matias world (I've yet to try a complicated tactile ALPS).

Damn it really got me curious... back in the day (15-20 years ago), I had a Mac Performa with a AEK/AEK2 and a BS. And I can remember that the AEK was SO SICK. It was quiet, comfortable, precise. It felt like they perfected typing. Whereas my BS keyboard (I think it was a Tulip or C64 board, not sure) was.. well.. the sound was nice, but nowhere near the feel of the AEK in my opinion.

But then I did the Mac away with the KB not knowing what I had in my hands :(
MJT2 Browns o-rings - HHKB White - ES-87 Smoke White Clears - 87UB 55g

Offline bocahgundul

  • a seal
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1842
  • Location: sell me your 5k ples
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #622 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 07:15:29 »
The main thing is that Cherry MX was designed to be a linear switch, and the other variants are done via a hacky and not-very-effective method of adding a little bump to the slider which briefly adds some extra plastic-on-plastic resistance.

If you like linear switches, then early (i.e. from the 1980s) MX black switches are an okay but not spectacular switch. If you add lubricant and swap the springs for lighter ones, and put them into a very sturdy case, they can be quite nice, even. As linear switches they don’t live up to e.g. Honeywell hall effect switches or various other fancy switches from the 1960s–1970s, but they’re widely available and don’t need any electrical engineering work to use with modern machines.

However, if you want a switch with some tactile response, then no Cherry MX switch is particularly effective. What you get instead is a linear switch with a little “speed bump” about halfway down the keypress, but which goes back to being linear afterward. Even in the two-piece slider design of MX blue, the overall feel (try with earplugs sometime) is a linear switch with a little speedbump halfway down.

Alps switches by contrast have a metal leaf spring providing resistance, which suddenly gives way once the slider passes a particular point, so you get a force curve which grows somewhat smoothly and then drops suddenly after the tactile point. There’s much more snap to it, sort of like plucking a string or something.

Sounds a bit like how Topre works? Up until the actuation point, relatively large amount of force is required. But after the rubber collapses, you almost instantly bottom out?
Thats right bro! a really good switches or board

Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 6462
  • Location: 35°55'N, 83°53'W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #623 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 07:29:47 »

AEK2 / AEK is ADB-bus right? Are there converts from ADB to USB?


Apple Extended Keyboard with orange or salmon Alps (generally, serial number lower than 500K is probably orange) is a different and significantly better (in my opinion, others disagree) keyboard than AEK2 (1989 copyright might still have salmon, 1990 copyright probably has dampened cream, and 1995 copyright probably has dampened white).

This guy must have bought a truckload of these, he has been selling them on ebay for years:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Griffin-iMate-ADB-to-USB-adapter-/321997360191?hash=item4af889cc3f:m:m56yBREdTTlOZpBnHKSRSvw
State Freedom Caucus News 2024
Missouri state Senator Nick Schroer sponsors a bill that would allow senators to duel one another — in the Senate chambers! – legally.

Offline iLLucionist

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 2734
  • Location: Netherlands
  • Topre is Love.
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #624 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 07:31:34 »

AEK2 / AEK is ADB-bus right? Are there converts from ADB to USB?


Apple Extended Keyboard with orange or salmon Alps (generally, serial number lower than 500K is probably orange) is a different and significantly better (in my opinion, others disagree) keyboard than AEK2 (1989 copyright might still have salmon, 1990 copyright probably has dampened cream, and 1995 copyright probably has dampened white).

This guy must have bought a truckload of these, he has been selling them on ebay for years:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Griffin-iMate-ADB-to-USB-adapter-/321997360191?hash=item4af889cc3f:m:m56yBREdTTlOZpBnHKSRSvw

Thanks! I'm wondering what kind of switch NEXT-keyboards use. Since Jobs moved from Apple to NEXT and took most of the top engineers with him, NEXT-boards may be Alps as well.
MJT2 Browns o-rings - HHKB White - ES-87 Smoke White Clears - 87UB 55g

Offline E3E

  • Posts: 2831
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #625 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 08:16:46 »
Apple Extended Keyboard with orange or salmon Alps (generally, serial number lower than 500K is probably orange)

This is not true. Salmon and Orange Alps production ran concurrently and serial number range does not matter.

Speaking as someone who has owned an AEK with orange Alps and seen one with a LOWER serial number containing salmon Alps.

The only way you'll ever be sure if you're getting orange or salmon is to have the seller pop a cap.

I have tried blue alps and orange alps and I think the closest one with topre is the orange alps but its a little bit different the bump of topre feels like a rounded bump as opposed to the orange alps which feels like a plastic hitting. I personally like topre better but Orange alps is really a good switch  :thumb:

Brown tactile Alps has more of a rounded tactility, but you're right. Despite the roundedness, it still feels like it's plastic. I like to say that if Topre made switches instead of cup rubber, brown tac Alps would be the closest approximation.
« Last Edit: Thu, 04 February 2016, 08:20:34 by E3E »

Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 6462
  • Location: 35°55'N, 83°53'W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #626 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 08:24:56 »

This is not true. Salmon and Orange Alps production ran concurrently and serial number range does not matter.

The only way you'll ever be sure if you're getting orange or salmon is to have the seller pop a cap.


I was speaking from my own experience. I have had approximately 4 of each and, of those, serial numbers <500K were all orange and >500K were all salmon. As with Model M components such as heavy back plates, it seems that different plants switched from older to newer components at significantly different times, probably depending on what stock they and their upstream suppliers had on hand.
State Freedom Caucus News 2024
Missouri state Senator Nick Schroer sponsors a bill that would allow senators to duel one another — in the Senate chambers! – legally.

Offline Blaise170

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1332
  • Location: Boston, MA
  • ALPS キーボード
    • XYZ
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #627 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 08:27:32 »

AEK2 / AEK is ADB-bus right? Are there converts from ADB to USB?


Apple Extended Keyboard with orange or salmon Alps (generally, serial number lower than 500K is probably orange) is a different and significantly better (in my opinion, others disagree) keyboard than AEK2 (1989 copyright might still have salmon, 1990 copyright probably has dampened cream, and 1995 copyright probably has dampened white).

This guy must have bought a truckload of these, he has been selling them on ebay for years:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Griffin-iMate-ADB-to-USB-adapter-/321997360191?hash=item4af889cc3f:m:m56yBREdTTlOZpBnHKSRSvw

Thanks! I'm wondering what kind of switch NEXT-keyboards use. Since Jobs moved from Apple to NEXT and took most of the top engineers with him, NEXT-boards may be Alps as well.

The ADB NeXT keyboards are rubber dome, non-ADB are Alps SKCM Black.
I proxy anything including keyboards (キーボード / 鍵盤), from both Japan (日本) and China (中國). For more information, you may visit my dedicated webpage here: https://www.keyboards.es/proxying.html

View my current and past keyboards here: https://deskthority.net/wiki/User:Blaise170

Offline bocahgundul

  • a seal
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1842
  • Location: sell me your 5k ples
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #628 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 08:27:51 »
I have tried blue alps and orange alps and I think the closest one with topre is the orange alps but its a little bit different the bump of topre feels like a rounded bump as opposed to the orange alps which feels like a plastic hitting. I personally like topre better but Orange alps is really a good switch  :thumb:

Brown tactile Alps has more of a rounded tactility, but you're right. Despite the roundedness, it still feels like it's plastic. I like to say that if Topre made switches instead of cup rubber, brown tac Alps would be the closest approximation.
Listen to this guy he is an expert at alps!  :thumb:
thats why people loves topre the feel is unique to itself and no other board come close with the feels of topre. don't hear the crazy modders that says ergo clear or anything that they mod feels like topre
Its crazy that you think tomato is the same as steak  :p. but its a matter of taste you need to try both to know the feels and choose what you like!

Offline chyros

  • a.k.a. Thomas
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 3475
  • Location: The Netherlands
  • Hello and welcome.
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #629 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 09:12:53 »
5. Vintage Alps boards are still pretty affordable and easy to find (as opposed to Cherry).
Old MX keyboards are also pretty affordable. At any given time there are a bunch on ebay for ~$20–30.

Problem for me is, I live in the EU (Netherlands), so I have to pay a lot more to get it into my country (shipping, after-tax, and sometimes import tax). My ~300 USD 87UB has an extra tax of around 60 USD once it passes the border. That's 20% "extra"!
Come to the UK. I've been charged as much as the full value of the board PLUS the entire cost of the shipping as tax on top of what I've already paid before :p . You can even be charged tax on duties, and duties on tax on top of that!
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Offline blk

  • Posts: 4
  • Location: Denton, TX
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #630 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 13:43:51 »
Show me your love for Alps keyboards!

Which Alps keyboards have you loved over the years?
Which ones do you use on a regular basis?
Which ones do you recommend for the community?

I can only wish to own as many Alps keyboards as this guy...


Pictures incoming later today.  I have recently purchased and disembodied an Apple Extended Keyboard II, with plans to eventually cut it down to 60%, wire it to a teensy and use it as a portable keyboard.  Sadly, even with the guides out there, I'm having difficulty getting it to work.  I'm thinking of putting it in a wooden case to lower weight and increase style.  Typing is very enjoyable after clickifying them and slightly modifying their actuation force. 

I also have a Dell AT101W that I've clickified and lubed.  I use it in the lab at school.  Surprisingly, no one cares about the noise it makes.  Possibly because we work around whirring instruments all day.

Unfortunately, I think I've bought a bunk AT101W because the keys bind frequently, even with lubing.  Pressing the keys off center causes some nasty binding. 

Still, the feel of the board is better than any Cherry offerings that I've tried.  My AT101W gives a pleasing typing experience, with medium-loud click-clacks and sharp tactility.  I just need to type accurately! 

My only complaint is that is comes with ABS caps, and I would greatly prefer PBT as seen in my AEKII.  I have heard people say that ABS is best for ALPS, but I just don't agree.  Gotta have PBT for thocks and deep vibrations.

IBM BS is still the best in my opinion, but ALPS are leaps and bounds better than Cherry.  Maybe Matias will reclaim the ALPS throne?

Offline iLLucionist

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 2734
  • Location: Netherlands
  • Topre is Love.
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #631 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 13:50:22 »
5. Vintage Alps boards are still pretty affordable and easy to find (as opposed to Cherry).
Old MX keyboards are also pretty affordable. At any given time there are a bunch on ebay for ~$20–30.

Problem for me is, I live in the EU (Netherlands), so I have to pay a lot more to get it into my country (shipping, after-tax, and sometimes import tax). My ~300 USD 87UB has an extra tax of around 60 USD once it passes the border. That's 20% "extra"!
Come to the UK. I've been charged as much as the full value of the board PLUS the entire cost of the shipping as tax on top of what I've already paid before :p . You can even be charged tax on duties, and duties on tax on top of that!

I'm not even mad, that's amazing! Man, that sucks..
MJT2 Browns o-rings - HHKB White - ES-87 Smoke White Clears - 87UB 55g

Offline azhdar

  • Praise the AZERTY god
  • Posts: 2430
  • Location: France
  • 65% Enlightened
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #632 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 16:46:07 »
So today I received this NIB beauty with azerty dyesubs





I have a hasu pcb lined up but I need to figure plate and stabilizers to make it work.
Maybe alps expert can help me out?

album:

http://imgur.com/a/sTFQ7

dt picture showing how the stabs are mounted to the board.


dt page about this keyboard serie : https://deskthority.net/wiki/Acer_6310_series
« Last Edit: Thu, 04 February 2016, 16:49:35 by azhdar »
Azerty Propagandiste

Offline jacobolus

  • Posts: 3661
  • Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #633 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 16:46:25 »
Apple Extended Keyboard with orange or salmon Alps (generally, serial number lower than 500K is probably orange)
This is not true. Salmon and Orange Alps production ran concurrently and serial number range does not matter. Speaking as someone who has owned an AEK with orange Alps and seen one with a LOWER serial number containing salmon Alps. The only way you'll ever be sure if you're getting orange or salmon is to have the seller pop a cap.
What were the two serial numbers you got? You’re probably right that there was a bit of overlap in production, but fohat is also 100% right that low-serial AEKs are all orange Alps, while the highest serial AEKs are all salmon Alps (those with lowest serials have orange Alps with a tall gray switchplate and no logo; later ones have orange Alps with the tall white switchplates, some with logos; the latest ones have salmon Alps). I’ve seen pictures of pulled caps on at least 30 of these, and the general pattern is clear.

Offline jacobolus

  • Posts: 3661
  • Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #634 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 16:51:11 »
The ADB NeXT keyboards are rubber dome, non-ADB are Alps SKCM Black.
This is incorrect. There are both ADB and non-ADB NeXT boards with Alps switches, and I’m pretty sure there are also both ADB and non-ADB NeXT boards with rubber domes.

Offline Touch_It

  • Posts: 715
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #635 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 16:52:57 »

AEK2 / AEK is ADB-bus right? Are there converts from ADB to USB?


Apple Extended Keyboard with orange or salmon Alps (generally, serial number lower than 500K is probably orange) is a different and significantly better (in my opinion, others disagree) keyboard than AEK2 (1989 copyright might still have salmon, 1990 copyright probably has dampened cream, and 1995 copyright probably has dampened white).

This guy must have bought a truckload of these, he has been selling them on ebay for years:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Griffin-iMate-ADB-to-USB-adapter-/321997360191?hash=item4af889cc3f:m:m56yBREdTTlOZpBnHKSRSvw

Thanks! I'm wondering what kind of switch NEXT-keyboards use. Since Jobs moved from Apple to NEXT and took most of the top engineers with him, NEXT-boards may be Alps as well.

AEK2 / AEK is ADB-bus right? Are there converts from ADB to USB?


Apple Extended Keyboard with orange or salmon Alps (generally, serial number lower than 500K is probably orange) is a different and significantly better (in my opinion, others disagree) keyboard than AEK2 (1989 copyright might still have salmon, 1990 copyright probably has dampened cream, and 1995 copyright probably has dampened white).

This guy must have bought a truckload of these, he has been selling them on ebay for years:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Griffin-iMate-ADB-to-USB-adapter-/321997360191?hash=item4af889cc3f:m:m56yBREdTTlOZpBnHKSRSvw


I asked for one of these for christmas (and got it).  I love mine as it is simply plug and play.  Great if you are lazy lol.  He does seem to have a trillion of them.  At a good price I think as well.


Visit the Typing Test and try!

Offline axtran

  • Posts: 456
  • Location: Washington, DC, USA
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #636 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 17:00:13 »
I'm almost scared of appreciating ALPS too hard since lately it's been driving prices to astronomical rates. There's no way SKCM Blue ALPS are driving the ridiculous prices as they are on eBay without the hype machine ruining things. They're not as rare as people think!
MX Silent > MX Vintage Black > Everything Else

Offline E3E

  • Posts: 2831
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #637 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 17:12:21 »
I'm almost scared of appreciating ALPS too hard since lately it's been driving prices to astronomical rates. There's no way SKCM Blue ALPS are driving the ridiculous prices as they are on eBay without the hype machine ruining things. They're not as rare as people think!

Super true. They're just the most desireable. It's kind of how like the general vibe of everyone who gets into Cherry MX (ie steps into the mechanical keyboard market for the first time) falls in love with Cherry MX blue.

I started with linears and hated clickies in the MX world myself, but you know.

Just like so many people seem all about blues, well... The newbies to the Alps world are all about blues too. :P With good reason, because they are awesome, but it feels like the same kind of drive, that hype train.

Offline bocahgundul

  • a seal
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1842
  • Location: sell me your 5k ples
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #638 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 17:12:40 »
So today I received this NIB beauty with azerty dyesubs

Show Image


Show Image


I have a hasu pcb lined up but I need to figure plate and stabilizers to make it work.
Maybe alps expert can help me out?

album:

http://imgur.com/a/sTFQ7

dt picture showing how the stabs are mounted to the board.
Show Image


dt page about this keyboard serie : https://deskthority.net/wiki/Acer_6310_series
thats  a beauty yo!

Offline E3E

  • Posts: 2831
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #639 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 17:23:35 »
Apple Extended Keyboard with orange or salmon Alps (generally, serial number lower than 500K is probably orange)
This is not true. Salmon and Orange Alps production ran concurrently and serial number range does not matter. Speaking as someone who has owned an AEK with orange Alps and seen one with a LOWER serial number containing salmon Alps. The only way you'll ever be sure if you're getting orange or salmon is to have the seller pop a cap.
What were the two serial numbers you got? You’re probably right that there was a bit of overlap in production, but fohat is also 100% right that low-serial AEKs are all orange Alps, while the highest serial AEKs are all salmon Alps (those with lowest serials have orange Alps with a tall gray switchplate and no logo; later ones have orange Alps with the tall white switchplates, some with logos; the latest ones have salmon Alps). I’ve seen pictures of pulled caps on at least 30 of these, and the general pattern is clear.

Time for me to eat my humble pie.

I apologize if I came off as brash, fohat! I glanced the serial number for a salmon Alps AEK I was working on for a customer of mine, and I thought it was in the range of "75000' which was lower than my orange Alps AEK which had one that was high in the five digit range.  Turns out the salmon Alps AEK was around 750000, not 75000.

I forget what my orange AEK was, since I tossed the parts after desoldering the switches for a scammer who nearly got them from me (offered me a "great" deal on SKCM blues, but right when I was about to send these switches as a token of my gratitude, I realized he was pulling one on me).

I wish I had kept that case, but the orange Alps have ALPS-branded top housings, so they are a bit later down the line. What was the highest serial range you saw the grey-contact plate Alps in, jacob?
 
So I'll admit, I might be entirely wrong here.  :-X

Offline iLLucionist

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 2734
  • Location: Netherlands
  • Topre is Love.
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #640 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 17:24:24 »
So today I received this NIB beauty with azerty dyesubs

Show Image


Show Image


I have a hasu pcb lined up but I need to figure plate and stabilizers to make it work.
Maybe alps expert can help me out?

album:

http://imgur.com/a/sTFQ7

dt picture showing how the stabs are mounted to the board.
Show Image


dt page about this keyboard serie : https://deskthority.net/wiki/Acer_6310_series
thats  a beauty yo!

Azerty is too much for me. Nice board!
MJT2 Browns o-rings - HHKB White - ES-87 Smoke White Clears - 87UB 55g

Offline Karura

  • Professional Canadian
  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 1574
  • Location: Canada
  • SKidata life.
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #641 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 19:44:41 »
How limited are we on ALPS tactile switch options? I only know of Matias Quiet Click. Does anything else come close?

I quite like Complicated Blues and Greens, but never knew of a Tactile equivalent.

Also, just ordered a V60 ALPS, so quite excited. :)

"Remember boys, raccoon cold... don't worry, raccoon will find cave." -Sent

Offline chyros

  • a.k.a. Thomas
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 3475
  • Location: The Netherlands
  • Hello and welcome.
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #642 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 19:51:50 »
How limited are we on ALPS tactile switch options? I only know of Matias Quiet Click. Does anything else come close?

I quite like Complicated Blues and Greens, but never knew of a Tactile equivalent.

Also, just ordered a V60 ALPS, so quite excited. :)
There are loads of tactile Alps, with considerably different characteristics. The earliest types (salmon, orange) are generally considered the best. As always with Alps; be mindful of the condition they're in!

Matias switches aren't really Alps switches. They might look the same, and are advertised as pretty much the same, but in practice, they're not much further off Cherry MX than they are off Alps, really.
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Offline sean

  • Posts: 304
  • Location: United States
  • Mechanical newb
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #643 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 20:57:56 »
How limited are we on ALPS tactile switch options? I only know of Matias Quiet Click. Does anything else come close?

I quite like Complicated Blues and Greens, but never knew of a Tactile equivalent.

Also, just ordered a V60 ALPS, so quite excited. :)
There are loads of tactile Alps, with considerably different characteristics. The earliest types (salmon, orange) are generally considered the best. As always with Alps; be mindful of the condition they're in!

Matias switches aren't really Alps switches. They might look the same, and are advertised as pretty much the same, but in practice, they're not much further off Cherry MX than they are off Alps, really.
It doesn't help that KBP advertises on the box that it has Alps switches.

Offline jacobolus

  • Posts: 3661
  • Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #644 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 21:25:38 »
Matias switches aren't really Alps switches. They might look the same, and are advertised as pretty much the same, but in practice, they're not much further off Cherry MX than they are off Alps, really.
Both Matias clicky switches and Matias tactile “quiet click” switches feel very similar to white Alps, in my opinion. They don’t feel remotely like any Cherry switch.

Offline njbair

  • Posts: 2825
  • Location: Cleveland, Ohio
  • I love the Powerglove. It's so bad.
    • nickbair.net
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #645 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 21:41:47 »
Has anyone ever tried click modding dampened cream Alps? There are so many of these switches lying around from old AEKII boards that have been harvested for caps. I decided to give it a try on my lunch break today. I desoldered a handful, opened them up and bent back the tabs. This completely changed the feel! I couldn't believe how similar they felt to the click modded oranges I made the other day. I tried removing the rubber bumpers on a couple of the click modded ones but I couldn't tell a difference with or without the bumpers.

If anyone else has some orange and/or cream Alps lying around, I would love some other opinions on the click mod.

I can only tell so much from a loose switch versus mounting in a board. So once I get more free time (read: when AW is done shipping) I'll probably load up one of my Alps Party plates with switches and caps and actually do some typing tests, comparing to my white Alps boards.

I think what I'm really trying to find out is whether or not click modded tactile Alps are an adequate substitute for the increasingly harder to find blue Alps.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
More
AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline Hak Foo

  • Posts: 1270
  • Make America Clicky Again!
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #646 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 21:45:59 »
So today I received this NIB beauty with azerty dyesubs

Show Image


Show Image


I have a hasu pcb lined up but I need to figure plate and stabilizers to make it work.
Maybe alps expert can help me out?

album:

http://imgur.com/a/sTFQ7

dt picture showing how the stabs are mounted to the board.
Show Image


dt page about this keyboard serie : https://deskthority.net/wiki/Acer_6310_series

The bad news is that the Acer 63xx and 65xx boards use a nonconventional stabilizer.  In most ALPS boards, the wire is fixed on the plate, and moves back and forth in a slide inside the keycap.  The Acers, have a fixed point in the cap, and the sliding element is that raised lug on the board.

The mediocre news: you could probably fake it by attacing a little piece of bent metal or plastic at the right locations of the plate to capture the sliding stabilizer.

The good news:  It's not the stupidest stabilizer design in the world, in that it's pretty easy to get assembled correctly.  It's actually somewhat reminiscent of the way old Model Ms worked.
Overton130, Box Pale Blues.

Offline sean

  • Posts: 304
  • Location: United States
  • Mechanical newb
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #647 on: Thu, 04 February 2016, 22:43:13 »
Has anyone ever tried click modding dampened cream Alps? There are so many of these switches lying around from old AEKII boards that have been harvested for caps. I decided to give it a try on my lunch break today. I desoldered a handful, opened them up and bent back the tabs. This completely changed the feel! I couldn't believe how similar they felt to the click modded oranges I made the other day. I tried removing the rubber bumpers on a couple of the click modded ones but I couldn't tell a difference with or without the bumpers.

If anyone else has some orange and/or cream Alps lying around, I would love some other opinions on the click mod.

I can only tell so much from a loose switch versus mounting in a board. So once I get more free time (read: when AW is done shipping) I'll probably load up one of my Alps Party plates with switches and caps and actually do some typing tests, comparing to my white Alps boards.

I think what I'm really trying to find out is whether or not click modded tactile Alps are an adequate substitute for the increasingly harder to find blue Alps.

I click modded and linear modded some of my cream switches. They definitely feel completely different but I wouldn't be able to give a good opinion on them unless I could slap them on a keyboard and try them out. My 40%/45% keyboard will probably use modded cream switches in some capacity (which probably means click modding). Honestly though the keyboard I got was in such bad condition a lot of the switches magically click modded themselves. :rolleyes:

Offline mseaworthy

  • Posts: 63
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #648 on: Fri, 05 February 2016, 00:04:47 »
The main thing is that Cherry MX was designed to be a linear switch, and the other variants are done via a hacky and not-very-effective method of adding a little bump to the slider which briefly adds some extra plastic-on-plastic resistance.

If you like linear switches, then early (i.e. from the 1980s) MX black switches are an okay but not spectacular switch. If you add lubricant and swap the springs for lighter ones, and put them into a very sturdy case, they can be quite nice, even. As linear switches they don’t live up to e.g. Honeywell hall effect switches or various other fancy switches from the 1960s–1970s, but they’re widely available and don’t need any electrical engineering work to use with modern machines.

However, if you want a switch with some tactile response, then no Cherry MX switch is particularly effective. What you get instead is a linear switch with a little “speed bump” about halfway down the keypress, but which goes back to being linear afterward. Even in the two-piece slider design of MX blue, the overall feel (try with earplugs sometime) is a linear switch with a little speedbump halfway down.

Alps switches by contrast have a metal leaf spring providing resistance, which suddenly gives way once the slider passes a particular point, so you get a force curve which grows somewhat smoothly and then drops suddenly after the tactile point. There’s much more snap to it, sort of like plucking a string or something.
I love this description, and the historical background you provided. I never paid attention to the force curve that closely, but Alps really do have a totally different feel after the click. Thanks for sharing this.

Great description! There is a wonderful rebound with Alps switches...vaguely similar to Topre but distinct still.

Offline jacobolus

  • Posts: 3661
  • Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #649 on: Fri, 05 February 2016, 00:06:01 »
Has anyone ever tried click modding dampened cream Alps?
One variant I really like is to take the housing/slider/dampers/spring from cream Alps with the click leaf from white Alps, snip all of the inactive coils off one end of the spring to make it shorter, reducing overall switch stiffness, and then bend the click leaf outward a bit to be a bit clickier. Kind of tedious to make a bunch of them though (in particular getting the stronger click semi-consistent isn’t trivial), and you need some really hard snippers to cut through spring wire without being damaged. The resulting switch is very snappy and loud at the click point but makes no sound at the bottom or top of the stroke.

The tactile leaf can then be swapped into the white Alps switch, and you basically get salmon switches.

The click-modded cream switches I made that way are very different from blue Alps though. I think you’ll have a tough time making any modded short-switchplate complicated Alps switch sound or feel like a blue switch. Not sure it’s that useful a goal; with the amount of fiddly work you’ll have to do to make a bunch of consistently modded switches of any type, you should just buy the blue switches directly if those are what you want.

I do wish there were a few options for after-market Alps/Alps clone/Omron/SMK/TEC/Matias springs (these are all close enough in diameter to have mostly interchangeable springs). It would be great to have a choice of 2 or 3 lengths, each with 2–3 different stiffnesses. Swapping the springs makes some of these switches much nicer IMO.
« Last Edit: Fri, 05 February 2016, 00:21:19 by jacobolus »