[GB] Out of the Vault - Series III: By Fans, For Fans (Cancelled)

[longcat]

So if these aren't going to be made if they don't reach the MOQ, and we're saying they are going to be $2/cap once we reach the MOQ, wouldn't it make more sense to change the pricing in the OP to reflect the price of $2/cap?

[A-train]

In for a Junktown set. I would have liked to purchase more, but gotta watch spending right now. Looking forward to these!

[00zeRO]

So if these aren't going to be made if they don't reach the MOQ, and we're saying they are going to be $2/cap once we reach the MOQ, wouldn't it make more sense to change the pricing in the OP to reflect the price of $2/cap?

I will...just haven't had a moment to spare to implement it

[00zeRO]

OP now updated to reflect lower pricing...

[THSdrummer]

So, about the pricing.... Is the $3 per cap the final cost, irrespective of numbers of orders or pricing tiers from SP? Or will we be invoiced the final value after tier pricing according to how many are ordered?

According to a very rough calculation (going off price points given by PMK for Series 2), the costs at a 100 MOQ price point from SP should be something like:

Row 3 Core: $8
Row 3 Wasteland: $6.50
Row 3 Irradiated:  $6.30
Six pack: $7.50

Row 1 Core: $6.50
Row 1 Junktown: $5.50
Row 1 Radiation: $6.30

I'll order everything at those price points, but I certainly can't afford to get them all at $3 per cap. For a couple of caps like the Radioactive Soda DSA's it's fine, since the shipping is more than the cap cost anyway, but when we're talking about $126 vs $47 it's a different story.

I want to keep the pricing simple...so how's $2 a keycap once we reach 100.

Part of the reason for the higher price is to cover legend fees for the two new legends and shipping the keys to me.

(It would have been nice to have discussed this better in the IC.)

Oh, dang. So if we reach 100 orders of one set, it'll drop in price? I might order more if that were the case.

[00zeRO]

I want to keep the pricing simple...so how's $2 a keycap once we reach 100.

Part of the reason for the higher price is to cover legend fees for the two new legends and shipping the keys to me.

(It would have been nice to have discussed this better in the IC.)

Oh, dang. So if we reach 100 orders of one set, it'll drop in price? I might order more if that were the case.

I have made the executive decision to make them $2 across the board. But the rule still stands that if a set does not reach 100 PAID orders, it will not be produced.

[00zeRO]

In for a Junktown set. I would have liked to purchase more, but gotta watch spending right now. Looking forward to these!

Thanks for your order...I have decided to drop the price per cap to $2...

[00zeRO]

So, about the pricing.... Is the $3 per cap the final cost, irrespective of numbers of orders or pricing tiers from SP? Or will we be invoiced the final value after tier pricing according to how many are ordered?

According to a very rough calculation (going off price points given by PMK for Series 2), the costs at a 100 MOQ price point from SP should be something like:

Row 3 Core: $8
Row 3 Wasteland: $6.50
Row 3 Irradiated:  $6.30
Six pack: $7.50

Row 1 Core: $6.50
Row 1 Junktown: $5.50
Row 1 Radiation: $6.30

I'll order everything at those price points, but I certainly can't afford to get them all at $3 per cap. For a couple of caps like the Radioactive Soda DSA's it's fine, since the shipping is more than the cap cost anyway, but when we're talking about $126 vs $47 it's a different story.

Based on your suggestion, I have set the price at $2 per cap across the board. If you would like to PM me about it, I can break down the pricing...suffice to say here that the PC transparent material is very expensive compared to standard ABS.

[apolotary]

Since we have new prices, how can I edit my order? Would like to throw in a few more sets

[00zeRO]

Since we have new prices, how can I edit my order? Would like to throw in a few more sets

This is to you and anyone else who would like to make changes:

If you want to alter an existing order please fill out the form again for ALL items you want. Any previous order will be ignored/deleted prior to invoicing at the end.

[00zeRO]

Since we have new prices, how can I edit my order? Would like to throw in a few more sets

This is to you and anyone else who would like to make changes:

If you want to alter an existing order please fill out the form again for ALL items you want. Any previous order will be ignored/deleted prior to invoicing at the end.

OP has been updated to reflect the change in terms...

[THSdrummer]

I want to keep the pricing simple...so how's $2 a keycap once we reach 100.

Part of the reason for the higher price is to cover legend fees for the two new legends and shipping the keys to me.

(It would have been nice to have discussed this better in the IC.)

Thank you so much. I really appreciate all the effort you've given to getting this GB going, as well as, the other Fallout inspired GB!

Oh, dang. So if we reach 100 orders of one set, it'll drop in price? I might order more if that were the case.

I have made the executive decision to make them $2 across the board. But the rule still stands that if a set does not reach 100 PAID orders, it will not be produced.

[Data]

So, about the pricing.... Is the $3 per cap the final cost, irrespective of numbers of orders or pricing tiers from SP? Or will we be invoiced the final value after tier pricing according to how many are ordered?

According to a very rough calculation (going off price points given by PMK for Series 2), the costs at a 100 MOQ price point from SP should be something like:

Row 3 Core: $8
Row 3 Wasteland: $6.50
Row 3 Irradiated:  $6.30
Six pack: $7.50

Row 1 Core: $6.50
Row 1 Junktown: $5.50
Row 1 Radiation: $6.30

I'll order everything at those price points, but I certainly can't afford to get them all at $3 per cap. For a couple of caps like the Radioactive Soda DSA's it's fine, since the shipping is more than the cap cost anyway, but when we're talking about $126 vs $47 it's a different story.

I want to keep the pricing simple...so how's $2 a keycap once we reach 100.

Part of the reason for the higher price is to cover legend fees for the two new legends and shipping the keys to me.

(It would have been nice to have discussed this better in the IC.)

Don't leave yourself short.  I can only speak for myself but I want to fully account for shipping in the invoice price.  If that means $3.00 or $2.65 per cap after everything shakes out, then so be it.  Everybody likes to save money but even more we want to see the group buy succeed.

[THSdrummer]

I want to keep the pricing simple...so how's $2 a keycap once we reach 100.

Part of the reason for the higher price is to cover legend fees for the two new legends and shipping the keys to me.

(It would have been nice to have discussed this better in the IC.)

Oh, dang. So if we reach 100 orders of one set, it'll drop in price? I might order more if that were the case.

I have made the executive decision to make them $2 across the board. But the rule still stands that if a set does not reach 100 PAID orders, it will not be produced.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate all the effort you've given to getting this GB going, as well as, the other Fallout inspired GB!

EDIT: Put my text in a quote above. Woops.

[00zeRO]

So, about the pricing.... Is the $3 per cap the final cost, irrespective of numbers of orders or pricing tiers from SP? Or will we be invoiced the final value after tier pricing according to how many are ordered?

According to a very rough calculation (going off price points given by PMK for Series 2), the costs at a 100 MOQ price point from SP should be something like:

Row 3 Core: $8
Row 3 Wasteland: $6.50
Row 3 Irradiated:  $6.30
Six pack: $7.50

Row 1 Core: $6.50
Row 1 Junktown: $5.50
Row 1 Radiation: $6.30

I'll order everything at those price points, but I certainly can't afford to get them all at $3 per cap. For a couple of caps like the Radioactive Soda DSA's it's fine, since the shipping is more than the cap cost anyway, but when we're talking about $126 vs $47 it's a different story.

I want to keep the pricing simple...so how's $2 a keycap once we reach 100.

Part of the reason for the higher price is to cover legend fees for the two new legends and shipping the keys to me.

(It would have been nice to have discussed this better in the IC.)

Don't leave yourself short.  I can only speak for myself but I want to fully account for shipping in the invoice price.  If that means $3.00 or $2.65 per cap after everything shakes out, then so be it.  Everybody likes to save money but even more we want to see the group buy succeed.

Don't worry, I have the wiggle room. Now, I will not be able to discount any of them less than this, however.

[Oobly]

I agree it should have been discussed and finalised in the IC instead of here.

I just saw a massive difference in cost to us between these sets at an apparent 100 MOQ and the prices we saw in the previous GB (which also included new legends and polycarbonate doubleshots). I have taken the legend cutting costs into account (around $50 each, really minimal compared to the total value of any of these sets at 100 orders) and in fact have used a slight overestimation on some sets, although the R3 base set calculation was off. I have no problem paying the $2 GB fee, it's a lot of effort to do this, but a little more transparency on the pricing goes a long way.

Here's a bit of my math, for those interested:

Series 2:
2 new legends cut.
Irradiated vaults, 2x PC doubleshots @100: $2.52 = $1.26 per cap (the most expensive)
Other child buys, 3x ABS @100: $2.13 = $1.07 per cap

The base set of 3x ABS and 1x PC reached the 200 point and sold for.... $3.37.

But let's just take them at the 100 MOQ point for this.

Series 3:
2 new legends cut. The cost of this is easier to absorb in larger sets, so it should have even less effect on pricing than in Series 2.
R3 core = 8x ABS and 1x PC = 8.56+1.26 = $9.82
R3 wasteland = 6x ABS = $6.42
R3 Irradiated = 5x PC = $6.30
Six pack = 5x PC + 1x ABS = $7.37

R1 core = 5x ABS + 1x PC = $6.61
R1 junktown = 5x ABS = $5.35
R1 radiation = 5x PC = $6.30

So when I see us all being charged more than double the likely cost for these (in fact almost triple) plus a GB fee, plus paying shipping ourselves (did you perhaps miss this part Data?) I just couldn't say nothing. If the difference in cost between what SP charges to make these and what we pay doesn't go to your pocket, please let us know where it does go...

A quick profit calculation assuming all sets met MOQ and we all paid $3 per cap:
Amount paid by us - cost to OP = $12600 - $4817 = $7783

Not a bad haul for a few caps. Oh wait, I forgot to add the $2 GB fee to that, but assuming people averaged ordering half the sets = $400, which pushes it up to $8183.

I don't like being ripped off and I don't like when the keyboard community in general gets ripped off, either. Let's do this again at the new "fair" $2 price point:
$8400 - $4817 = "only" $3583 plus the $400 in GB fees = $3983... pure profit in your pocket.

I can see why you want to go with a "simple price"... I don't have a problem with people getting paid for doing good work, whether it be designing, running a GB, etc, but I do have a problem when I'm paying for it without being told that it's happening or how much of my money is going to the artist / organiser. The way this IC and GB was posed it seemed that the $2 GB fee was this payment, but as you can see the major profit is from the "simple pricing".

I think you're a very good designer and these caps are very desirable, but I think you should have been a lot more open and clear about this. As it is, I feel like we've all been scammed. I somehow doubt it will cost almost $4000 for shipping from SP to you.

If any of my calculations or values are different from what you've been quoted, please correct me. I really do just want transparency here.

[00zeRO]

I agree it should have been discussed and finalised in the IC instead of here.

I just saw a massive difference in cost to us between these sets at an apparent 100 MOQ and the prices we saw in the previous GB (which also included new legends and polycarbonate doubleshots). I have taken the legend cutting costs into account (around $50 each, really minimal compared to the total value of any of these sets at 100 orders) and in fact have used a slight overestimation on some sets, although the R3 base set calculation was off. I have no problem paying the $2 GB fee, it's a lot of effort to do this, but a little more transparency on the pricing goes a long way.

Here's a bit of my math, for those interested:

Series 2:
2 new legends cut.
Irradiated vaults, 2x PC doubleshots @100: $2.52 = $1.26 per cap (the most expensive)
Other child buys, 3x ABS @100: $2.13 = $1.07 per cap

The base set of 3x ABS and 1x PC reached the 200 point and sold for.... $3.37.

But let's just take them at the 100 MOQ point for this.

Series 3:
2 new legends cut. The cost of this is easier to absorb in larger sets, so it should have even less effect on pricing than in Series 2.
R3 core = 8x ABS and 1x PC = 8.56+1.26 = $9.82
R3 wasteland = 6x ABS = $6.42
R3 Irradiated = 5x PC = $6.30
Six pack = 5x PC + 1x ABS = $7.37

R1 core = 5x ABS + 1x PC = $6.61
R1 junktown = 5x ABS = $5.35
R1 radiation = 5x PC = $6.30

So when I see us all being charged more than double the likely cost for these (in fact almost triple) plus a GB fee, plus paying shipping ourselves (did you perhaps miss this part Data?) I just couldn't say nothing. If the difference in cost between what SP charges to make these and what we pay doesn't go to your pocket, please let us know where it does go...

A quick profit calculation assuming all sets met MOQ and we all paid $3 per cap:
Amount paid by us - cost to OP = $12600 - $4817 = $7783

Not a bad haul for a few caps. Oh wait, I forgot to add the $2 GB fee to that, but assuming people averaged ordering half the sets = $400, which pushes it up to $8183.

I don't like being ripped off and I don't like when the keyboard community in general gets ripped off, either. Let's do this again at the new "fair" $2 price point:
$8400 - $4817 = "only" $3583 plus the $400 in GB fees = $3983... pure profit in your pocket.

I can see why you want to go with a "simple price"... I don't have a problem with people getting paid for doing good work, whether it be designing, running a GB, etc, but I do have a problem when I'm paying for it without being told that it's happening or how much of my money is going to the artist / organiser. The way this IC and GB was posed it seemed that the $2 GB fee was this payment, but as you can see the major profit is from the "simple pricing".

I think you're a very good designer and these caps are very desirable, but I think you should have been a lot more open and clear about this. As it is, I feel like we've all been scammed. I somehow doubt it will cost almost $4000 for shipping from SP to you.

If any of my calculations or values are different from what you've been quoted, please correct me. I really do just want transparency here.

Okay, cost per keycap per color per family at 100 is $1.44 in ABS/ABS Double shot. Since there are so many colors, that makes each key color type to be $1.44 per key at 100 MOQ. Each color of the different PC/ABS caps are between $1.60 - $1.80 per cap at the 100 MOQ. When charging $2 per keycap this covers this cost. I have no problem with dropping the $2 group buy fee.

So, what would you like to pricing to be, Oobly? I am completely open to changing this so that I am not ripping anyone off, or even giving the appearance of such.

[00zeRO]

Group Buy fee has been eradicated...

[00zeRO]

I want to provide as much transparency as possible because my goal here is to generate new key styles for the community at large and not lose money in the process. Costs associated with manufacturing are not as static as I would like them to be, and I am still new to all of this process.

Believe me, I would have much rather let PMK handle this thing from beginning to end, but they were taking too long and I know that Fallout 4 is fast approaching.

Let me see if I can crunch the numbers and see if I can get the pricing even lower for everyone...

[breitling]

Resubmitted my order and added an irradiated travels to my order. Thanks!

[Data]

I want to provide as much transparency as possible because my goal here is to generate new key styles for the community at large and not lose money in the process. Costs associated with manufacturing are not as static as I would like them to be, and I am still new to all of this process.

Believe me, I would have much rather let PMK handle this thing from beginning to end, but they were taking too long and I know that Fallout 4 is fast approaching.

Let me see if I can crunch the numbers and see if I can get the pricing even lower for everyone...

Maybe I'm alone but I think it's perfectly fair the way you're doing it.  The only challenge might be the 100 MOQ in a 2 weeks window.  Hard to say.

[Oobly]

I'm on a bit of an emotional rollercoaster right now and may have overreacted, but my initial shock at the total price of my order made me take a deeper look at what these should cost. I remember stating in the IC that I didn't mind how the invoicing and payments go as long as the amount that leaves my account matches the keycap cost at the tier each set reaches (plus the gb fee plus shipping). It's still not clear to me how much I'll be paying for these in the end and how much I'm gving you. Is the $2 per cap the amount that I pay no matter how many get sold or will there be some adjustment according to the numbers?

What actual price has SP quoted you for each set at 100 MOQ?

[00zeRO]

I'm on a bit of an emotional rollercoaster right now and may have overreacted, but my initial shock at the total price of my order made me take a deeper look at what these should cost. I remember stating in the IC that I didn't mind how the invoicing and payments go as long as the amount that leaves my account matches the keycap cost at the tier each set reaches (plus the gb fee plus shipping). It's still not clear to me how much I'll be paying for these in the end and how much I'm gving you. Is the $2 per cap the amount that I pay no matter how many get sold or will there be some adjustment according to the numbers?

What actual price has SP quoted you for each set at 100 MOQ?

$1.44 per colorway per family. Meaning that Lime/White Row 1 has its own MOQ of 100 in order for it to be at that price. It cannot combine MOQ with Burgandy/White Row 1 since they are each different colors. On the other hand, when looking at the Blue PC/GLID's, they can combine so, MOQ for them techinically would be 20 sets, but I was going to let their excess help tip everything even if any given set didn't reach MOQ. The goal is to produce all sets, and I would have made that happen regardless of MOQ within reason. For example, let's say Wasteland Wares only got 50 sets sold, according to the rules it would have to the MOQ price of 50 which is $2.43 per keycap. Below are a few of the run down lists as per Melissa from emails:

This is ABS/ABS same family (SA, DSA, etc), same color combination:

25 pcs                    $4.38 each
50 pcs                    $2.43 each
75 pcs                    $1.76 each
100 pcs                  $1.44 each
150 pcs                  $1.11 each
200 pcs                  $0.95 each
250 pcs                  $0.71 each
500 pcs                  $0.51 each

And then +45 +45 = $90 to spread across all for the two new legends...PC and GLID pricing list to follow once I find the info. Suffice to say that they are between $0.10 and $0.50 difference per keycap at the 100 MOQ pricing...but again the Irradiated Travels/Radiation Journeys are going to help even everything out in the end for the sets that don't quite make my 100 MOQ goal *fingers crossed*

What I do not want to happen is only 25 sets to sell of any given type and then have to pay $4.38 per keycap...most of which would come out of my own pocket.

I want them all to be made for everyone, but I also don't want to lose money on each keycap set if they don't reach high enough.

[00zeRO]

^ edit

[Captain Olive]

Just ordered, thanks for putting this together 



Olive

[Cameron]

I'm on a bit of an emotional rollercoaster right now and may have overreacted, but my initial shock at the total price of my order made me take a deeper look at what these should cost. I remember stating in the IC that I didn't mind how the invoicing and payments go as long as the amount that leaves my account matches the keycap cost at the tier each set reaches (plus the gb fee plus shipping). It's still not clear to me how much I'll be paying for these in the end and how much I'm gving you. Is the $2 per cap the amount that I pay no matter how many get sold or will there be some adjustment according to the numbers?

What actual price has SP quoted you for each set at 100 MOQ?

$1.44 per colorway per family. Meaning that Lime/White Row 1 has its own MOQ of 100 in order for it to be at that price. It cannot combine MOQ with Burgandy/White Row 1 since they are each different colors. On the other hand, when looking at the Blue PC/GLID's, they can combine so, MOQ for them techinically would be 20 sets, but I was going to let their excess help tip everything even if any given set didn't reach MOQ. The goal is to produce all sets, and I would have made that happen regardless of MOQ within reason. For example, let's say Wasteland Wares only got 50 sets sold, according to the rules it would have to the MOQ price of 50 which is $2.43 per keycap. Below are a few of the run down lists as per Melissa from emails:

This is ABS/ABS same family (SA, DSA, etc), same color combination:

25 pcs                    $4.38 each
50 pcs                    $2.43 each
75 pcs                    $1.76 each
100 pcs                  $1.44 each
150 pcs                  $1.11 each
200 pcs                  $0.95 each
250 pcs                  $0.71 each
500 pcs                  $0.51 each

And then +45 +45 = $90 to spread across all for the two new legends...PC and GLID pricing list to follow once I find the info. Suffice to say that they are between $0.10 and $0.50 difference per keycap at the 100 MOQ pricing...but again the Irradiated Travels/Radiation Journeys are going to help even everything out in the end for the sets that don't quite make my 100 MOQ goal *fingers crossed*

What I do not want to happen is only 25 sets to sell of any given type and then have to pay $4.38 per keycap...most of which would come out of my own pocket.

I want them all to be made for everyone, but I also don't want to lose money on each keycap set if they don't reach high enough.

You still cut a profit selling at $2 per cap if all of them reach 75 sales, so shouldn't that be the minimum required for them to run?

(600*0.24 =144, $54 back to you after the $90 spent on legends)

[00zeRO]

I'm on a bit of an emotional rollercoaster right now and may have overreacted, but my initial shock at the total price of my order made me take a deeper look at what these should cost. I remember stating in the IC that I didn't mind how the invoicing and payments go as long as the amount that leaves my account matches the keycap cost at the tier each set reaches (plus the gb fee plus shipping). It's still not clear to me how much I'll be paying for these in the end and how much I'm gving you. Is the $2 per cap the amount that I pay no matter how many get sold or will there be some adjustment according to the numbers?

What actual price has SP quoted you for each set at 100 MOQ?

$1.44 per colorway per family. Meaning that Lime/White Row 1 has its own MOQ of 100 in order for it to be at that price. It cannot combine MOQ with Burgandy/White Row 1 since they are each different colors. On the other hand, when looking at the Blue PC/GLID's, they can combine so, MOQ for them techinically would be 20 sets, but I was going to let their excess help tip everything even if any given set didn't reach MOQ. The goal is to produce all sets, and I would have made that happen regardless of MOQ within reason. For example, let's say Wasteland Wares only got 50 sets sold, according to the rules it would have to the MOQ price of 50 which is $2.43 per keycap. Below are a few of the run down lists as per Melissa from emails:

This is ABS/ABS same family (SA, DSA, etc), same color combination:

25 pcs                    $4.38 each
50 pcs                    $2.43 each
75 pcs                    $1.76 each
100 pcs                  $1.44 each
150 pcs                  $1.11 each
200 pcs                  $0.95 each
250 pcs                  $0.71 each
500 pcs                  $0.51 each

And then +45 +45 = $90 to spread across all for the two new legends...PC and GLID pricing list to follow once I find the info. Suffice to say that they are between $0.10 and $0.50 difference per keycap at the 100 MOQ pricing...but again the Irradiated Travels/Radiation Journeys are going to help even everything out in the end for the sets that don't quite make my 100 MOQ goal *fingers crossed*

What I do not want to happen is only 25 sets to sell of any given type and then have to pay $4.38 per keycap...most of which would come out of my own pocket.

I want them all to be made for everyone, but I also don't want to lose money on each keycap set if they don't reach high enough.

You still cut a profit selling at $2 per cap if all of them reach 75 sales, so shouldn't that be the minimum required for them to run?

(600*0.24 =144, $54 back to you after the $90 spent on legends)

This is my hope. I am not so much concerned with profit, but having enough to cover the production of all keycaps ordered.

[00zeRO]

Current numbers (updated in OP as well):

Order Status Per Set –
29 = SA Row 3 Core Set
12 = SA Row 3 Wasteland Wares Set
20 = SA Row 3 Irradiated Travels Set
24 = SA Row 3 Nuka Cola Six Pack Set
32 = SA Row 1 Core Set
38 = SA Row 1 Junktown Novelties Set
18 = SA Row 1 Radiation Journey Set

Looking good.

[crovax3000]

Welp, ordered one of each row 3 set.

I have a problem.

[apolotary]

Can anyone post a photo of row 3 SA keycaps sitting on a row 1 with Cherry/OEM caps? Really curious how it would turn out

[Oobly]

More

I'm on a bit of an emotional rollercoaster right now and may have overreacted, but my initial shock at the total price of my order made me take a deeper look at what these should cost. I remember stating in the IC that I didn't mind how the invoicing and payments go as long as the amount that leaves my account matches the keycap cost at the tier each set reaches (plus the gb fee plus shipping). It's still not clear to me how much I'll be paying for these in the end and how much I'm gving you. Is the $2 per cap the amount that I pay no matter how many get sold or will there be some adjustment according to the numbers?

What actual price has SP quoted you for each set at 100 MOQ?

$1.44 per colorway per family. Meaning that Lime/White Row 1 has its own MOQ of 100 in order for it to be at that price. It cannot combine MOQ with Burgandy/White Row 1 since they are each different colors. On the other hand, when looking at the Blue PC/GLID's, they can combine so, MOQ for them techinically would be 20 sets, but I was going to let their excess help tip everything even if any given set didn't reach MOQ. The goal is to produce all sets, and I would have made that happen regardless of MOQ within reason. For example, let's say Wasteland Wares only got 50 sets sold, according to the rules it would have to the MOQ price of 50 which is $2.43 per keycap. Below are a few of the run down lists as per Melissa from emails:

This is ABS/ABS same family (SA, DSA, etc), same color combination:

25 pcs                    $4.38 each
50 pcs                    $2.43 each
75 pcs                    $1.76 each
100 pcs                  $1.44 each
150 pcs                  $1.11 each
200 pcs                  $0.95 each
250 pcs                  $0.71 each
500 pcs                  $0.51 each

And then +45 +45 = $90 to spread across all for the two new legends...PC and GLID pricing list to follow once I find the info. Suffice to say that they are between $0.10 and $0.50 difference per keycap at the 100 MOQ pricing...but again the Irradiated Travels/Radiation Journeys are going to help even everything out in the end for the sets that don't quite make my 100 MOQ goal *fingers crossed*

What I do not want to happen is only 25 sets to sell of any given type and then have to pay $4.38 per keycap...most of which would come out of my own pocket.

I want them all to be made for everyone, but I also don't want to lose money on each keycap set if they don't reach high enough.

You still cut a profit selling at $2 per cap if all of them reach 75 sales, so shouldn't that be the minimum required for them to run?

(600*0.24 =144, $54 back to you after the $90 spent on legends)

This is my hope. I am not so much concerned with profit, but having enough to cover the production of all keycaps ordered.

Okay, would you then consider putting the profits from this towards having the Row 4 Shift moulds made? In that case, I'll be happy to pay $3 per cap, as if we then hit the 100 MOQ on all kits that'd just about cover both. $2 per cap is a lot easier to swallow, but it's still allowing quite a large amount of "wiggle room". The R3 Core set calculated with the figures you've quoted still comes out at $7.37 + the cost of the PC cap, which puts it at around half the amount we're paying for it. Add the legend cost to just this kit and it's still only around $10-$11 per kit. There's not much difference between what I calculated before and what the costs are with the new breakdowns per colourway per family.

Thank you for sharing the cost breakdowns from SP.

I understand better now the complications in setting prices as the price of one kit depends on the numbers of other kits ordered that have the same colourway in the same family. I also understand that you want to get all the kits made regardless of orders and applaud you for this, but I think some description of what happens to the extra money would be nice. I also understand that in business you have to take calculated risks and it's best to base these on a lower sales expectation. As I have stated in my previous posts, I have no problem with a designer / organiser making money from a GB, as long as it's clear how the money is being made and that it's a reasonable / fair amount.

I got a bit of a shock when the calculated profit was twice the expected cost of the caps (based on previous runs of these same cap designs, the only info available to me) . A 200% markup is not what I'd call reasonable. With the new quote values and pricing I think it's much closer to being "reasonable". I'd be happier still with the $2 GB fee reinstated and the invoices sent out with the real costs. Or that the profit goes to something that helps the keycap enthusiast community.

I also know there are other businesses / vendors that run keycap GB's and are much less transparent than this, but those are for full keycap sets and it's a bigger risk for them. Also the prices are a lot closer to the real cost than what I was seeing here initially.

Also, would you consider extending this a bit? Two weeks is fine for a smaller buy like the DSA ones, but these bigger kits need some thought and planning from buyers and it may pay off to keep it running so more people notice it before it's finished.

Sorry for throwing such a big spanner in the works on this / interfering with your GB. My sense of justice was just setting off alarm bells and I had to react. I should have PM'ed you instead of dropping a bomb in the thread.

TLDR: $2 per cap is alright. If the profits are large, would you be willing to put some of it towards Row 4 Shifts?

[Cameron]

More

I'm on a bit of an emotional rollercoaster right now and may have overreacted, but my initial shock at the total price of my order made me take a deeper look at what these should cost. I remember stating in the IC that I didn't mind how the invoicing and payments go as long as the amount that leaves my account matches the keycap cost at the tier each set reaches (plus the gb fee plus shipping). It's still not clear to me how much I'll be paying for these in the end and how much I'm gving you. Is the $2 per cap the amount that I pay no matter how many get sold or will there be some adjustment according to the numbers?

What actual price has SP quoted you for each set at 100 MOQ?

$1.44 per colorway per family. Meaning that Lime/White Row 1 has its own MOQ of 100 in order for it to be at that price. It cannot combine MOQ with Burgandy/White Row 1 since they are each different colors. On the other hand, when looking at the Blue PC/GLID's, they can combine so, MOQ for them techinically would be 20 sets, but I was going to let their excess help tip everything even if any given set didn't reach MOQ. The goal is to produce all sets, and I would have made that happen regardless of MOQ within reason. For example, let's say Wasteland Wares only got 50 sets sold, according to the rules it would have to the MOQ price of 50 which is $2.43 per keycap. Below are a few of the run down lists as per Melissa from emails:

This is ABS/ABS same family (SA, DSA, etc), same color combination:

25 pcs                    $4.38 each
50 pcs                    $2.43 each
75 pcs                    $1.76 each
100 pcs                  $1.44 each
150 pcs                  $1.11 each
200 pcs                  $0.95 each
250 pcs                  $0.71 each
500 pcs                  $0.51 each

And then +45 +45 = $90 to spread across all for the two new legends...PC and GLID pricing list to follow once I find the info. Suffice to say that they are between $0.10 and $0.50 difference per keycap at the 100 MOQ pricing...but again the Irradiated Travels/Radiation Journeys are going to help even everything out in the end for the sets that don't quite make my 100 MOQ goal *fingers crossed*

What I do not want to happen is only 25 sets to sell of any given type and then have to pay $4.38 per keycap...most of which would come out of my own pocket.

I want them all to be made for everyone, but I also don't want to lose money on each keycap set if they don't reach high enough.

You still cut a profit selling at $2 per cap if all of them reach 75 sales, so shouldn't that be the minimum required for them to run?

(600*0.24 =144, $54 back to you after the $90 spent on legends)

This is my hope. I am not so much concerned with profit, but having enough to cover the production of all keycaps ordered.

Okay, would you then consider putting the profits from this towards having the Row 4 Shift moulds made? In that case, I'll be happy to pay $3 per cap, as if we then hit the 100 MOQ on all kits that'd just about cover both. $2 per cap is a lot easier to swallow, but it's still allowing quite a large amount of "wiggle room". The R3 Core set calculated with the figures you've quoted still comes out at $7.37 + the cost of the PC cap, which puts it at around half the amount we're paying for it. Add the legend cost to just this kit and it's still only around $10-$11 per kit. There's not much difference between what I calculated before and what the costs are with the new breakdowns per colourway per family.

Thank you for sharing the cost breakdowns from SP.

I understand better now the complications in setting prices as the price of one kit depends on the numbers of other kits ordered that have the same colourway in the same family. I also understand that you want to get all the kits made regardless of orders and applaud you for this, but I think some description of what happens to the extra money would be nice. I also understand that in business you have to take calculated risks and it's best to base these on a lower sales expectation. As I have stated in my previous posts, I have no problem with a designer / organiser making money from a GB, as long as it's clear how the money is being made and that it's a reasonable / fair amount.

I got a bit of a shock when the calculated profit was twice the expected cost of the caps (based on previous runs of these same cap designs, the only info available to me) . A 200% markup is not what I'd call reasonable. With the new quote values and pricing I think it's much closer to being "reasonable". I'd be happier still with the $2 GB fee reinstated and the invoices sent out with the real costs. Or that the profit goes to something that helps the keycap enthusiast community.

I also know there are other businesses / vendors that run keycap GB's and are much less transparent than this, but those are for full keycap sets and it's a bigger risk for them. Also the prices are a lot closer to the real cost than what I was seeing here initially.

Also, would you consider extending this a bit? Two weeks is fine for a smaller buy like the DSA ones, but these bigger kits need some thought and planning from buyers and it may pay off to keep it running so more people notice it before it's finished.

Sorry for throwing such a big spanner in the works on this / interfering with your GB. My sense of justice was just setting off alarm bells and I had to react. I should have PM'ed you instead of dropping a bomb in the thread.

TLDR: $2 per cap is alright. If the profits are large, would you be willing to put some of it towards Row 4 Shifts?

The cost of row 4 shift keys is something SP would need to sort out. From what I've read, the cost of them getting a new mould for row 4 shift keys is around $90,000. The way they see it as far as I can tell is that it's not worth the investment.

[Oobly]

More

More

I'm on a bit of an emotional rollercoaster right now and may have overreacted, but my initial shock at the total price of my order made me take a deeper look at what these should cost. I remember stating in the IC that I didn't mind how the invoicing and payments go as long as the amount that leaves my account matches the keycap cost at the tier each set reaches (plus the gb fee plus shipping). It's still not clear to me how much I'll be paying for these in the end and how much I'm gving you. Is the $2 per cap the amount that I pay no matter how many get sold or will there be some adjustment according to the numbers?

What actual price has SP quoted you for each set at 100 MOQ?

$1.44 per colorway per family. Meaning that Lime/White Row 1 has its own MOQ of 100 in order for it to be at that price. It cannot combine MOQ with Burgandy/White Row 1 since they are each different colors. On the other hand, when looking at the Blue PC/GLID's, they can combine so, MOQ for them techinically would be 20 sets, but I was going to let their excess help tip everything even if any given set didn't reach MOQ. The goal is to produce all sets, and I would have made that happen regardless of MOQ within reason. For example, let's say Wasteland Wares only got 50 sets sold, according to the rules it would have to the MOQ price of 50 which is $2.43 per keycap. Below are a few of the run down lists as per Melissa from emails:

This is ABS/ABS same family (SA, DSA, etc), same color combination:

25 pcs                    $4.38 each
50 pcs                    $2.43 each
75 pcs                    $1.76 each
100 pcs                  $1.44 each
150 pcs                  $1.11 each
200 pcs                  $0.95 each
250 pcs                  $0.71 each
500 pcs                  $0.51 each

And then +45 +45 = $90 to spread across all for the two new legends...PC and GLID pricing list to follow once I find the info. Suffice to say that they are between $0.10 and $0.50 difference per keycap at the 100 MOQ pricing...but again the Irradiated Travels/Radiation Journeys are going to help even everything out in the end for the sets that don't quite make my 100 MOQ goal *fingers crossed*

What I do not want to happen is only 25 sets to sell of any given type and then have to pay $4.38 per keycap...most of which would come out of my own pocket.

I want them all to be made for everyone, but I also don't want to lose money on each keycap set if they don't reach high enough.

You still cut a profit selling at $2 per cap if all of them reach 75 sales, so shouldn't that be the minimum required for them to run?

(600*0.24 =144, $54 back to you after the $90 spent on legends)

This is my hope. I am not so much concerned with profit, but having enough to cover the production of all keycaps ordered.

Okay, would you then consider putting the profits from this towards having the Row 4 Shift moulds made? In that case, I'll be happy to pay $3 per cap, as if we then hit the 100 MOQ on all kits that'd just about cover both. $2 per cap is a lot easier to swallow, but it's still allowing quite a large amount of "wiggle room". The R3 Core set calculated with the figures you've quoted still comes out at $7.37 + the cost of the PC cap, which puts it at around half the amount we're paying for it. Add the legend cost to just this kit and it's still only around $10-$11 per kit. There's not much difference between what I calculated before and what the costs are with the new breakdowns per colourway per family.

Thank you for sharing the cost breakdowns from SP.

I understand better now the complications in setting prices as the price of one kit depends on the numbers of other kits ordered that have the same colourway in the same family. I also understand that you want to get all the kits made regardless of orders and applaud you for this, but I think some description of what happens to the extra money would be nice. I also understand that in business you have to take calculated risks and it's best to base these on a lower sales expectation. As I have stated in my previous posts, I have no problem with a designer / organiser making money from a GB, as long as it's clear how the money is being made and that it's a reasonable / fair amount.

I got a bit of a shock when the calculated profit was twice the expected cost of the caps (based on previous runs of these same cap designs, the only info available to me) . A 200% markup is not what I'd call reasonable. With the new quote values and pricing I think it's much closer to being "reasonable". I'd be happier still with the $2 GB fee reinstated and the invoices sent out with the real costs. Or that the profit goes to something that helps the keycap enthusiast community.

I also know there are other businesses / vendors that run keycap GB's and are much less transparent than this, but those are for full keycap sets and it's a bigger risk for them. Also the prices are a lot closer to the real cost than what I was seeing here initially.

Also, would you consider extending this a bit? Two weeks is fine for a smaller buy like the DSA ones, but these bigger kits need some thought and planning from buyers and it may pay off to keep it running so more people notice it before it's finished.

Sorry for throwing such a big spanner in the works on this / interfering with your GB. My sense of justice was just setting off alarm bells and I had to react. I should have PM'ed you instead of dropping a bomb in the thread.

TLDR: $2 per cap is alright. If the profits are large, would you be willing to put some of it towards Row 4 Shifts?

The cost of row 4 shift keys is something SP would need to sort out. From what I've read, the cost of them getting a new mould for row 4 shift keys is around $90,000. The way they see it as far as I can tell is that it's not worth the investment.

Nope, it's around $4000 to $4500 per mold = $8000 to $9000. It's kind of ridiculous SP hasn't had them made themselves yet IMHO.

[Data]

More

More

I'm on a bit of an emotional rollercoaster right now and may have overreacted, but my initial shock at the total price of my order made me take a deeper look at what these should cost. I remember stating in the IC that I didn't mind how the invoicing and payments go as long as the amount that leaves my account matches the keycap cost at the tier each set reaches (plus the gb fee plus shipping). It's still not clear to me how much I'll be paying for these in the end and how much I'm gving you. Is the $2 per cap the amount that I pay no matter how many get sold or will there be some adjustment according to the numbers?

What actual price has SP quoted you for each set at 100 MOQ?

$1.44 per colorway per family. Meaning that Lime/White Row 1 has its own MOQ of 100 in order for it to be at that price. It cannot combine MOQ with Burgandy/White Row 1 since they are each different colors. On the other hand, when looking at the Blue PC/GLID's, they can combine so, MOQ for them techinically would be 20 sets, but I was going to let their excess help tip everything even if any given set didn't reach MOQ. The goal is to produce all sets, and I would have made that happen regardless of MOQ within reason. For example, let's say Wasteland Wares only got 50 sets sold, according to the rules it would have to the MOQ price of 50 which is $2.43 per keycap. Below are a few of the run down lists as per Melissa from emails:

This is ABS/ABS same family (SA, DSA, etc), same color combination:

25 pcs                    $4.38 each
50 pcs                    $2.43 each
75 pcs                    $1.76 each
100 pcs                  $1.44 each
150 pcs                  $1.11 each
200 pcs                  $0.95 each
250 pcs                  $0.71 each
500 pcs                  $0.51 each

And then +45 +45 = $90 to spread across all for the two new legends...PC and GLID pricing list to follow once I find the info. Suffice to say that they are between $0.10 and $0.50 difference per keycap at the 100 MOQ pricing...but again the Irradiated Travels/Radiation Journeys are going to help even everything out in the end for the sets that don't quite make my 100 MOQ goal *fingers crossed*

What I do not want to happen is only 25 sets to sell of any given type and then have to pay $4.38 per keycap...most of which would come out of my own pocket.

I want them all to be made for everyone, but I also don't want to lose money on each keycap set if they don't reach high enough.

You still cut a profit selling at $2 per cap if all of them reach 75 sales, so shouldn't that be the minimum required for them to run?

(600*0.24 =144, $54 back to you after the $90 spent on legends)

This is my hope. I am not so much concerned with profit, but having enough to cover the production of all keycaps ordered.

Okay, would you then consider putting the profits from this towards having the Row 4 Shift moulds made? In that case, I'll be happy to pay $3 per cap, as if we then hit the 100 MOQ on all kits that'd just about cover both. $2 per cap is a lot easier to swallow, but it's still allowing quite a large amount of "wiggle room". The R3 Core set calculated with the figures you've quoted still comes out at $7.37 + the cost of the PC cap, which puts it at around half the amount we're paying for it. Add the legend cost to just this kit and it's still only around $10-$11 per kit. There's not much difference between what I calculated before and what the costs are with the new breakdowns per colourway per family.

Thank you for sharing the cost breakdowns from SP.

I understand better now the complications in setting prices as the price of one kit depends on the numbers of other kits ordered that have the same colourway in the same family. I also understand that you want to get all the kits made regardless of orders and applaud you for this, but I think some description of what happens to the extra money would be nice. I also understand that in business you have to take calculated risks and it's best to base these on a lower sales expectation. As I have stated in my previous posts, I have no problem with a designer / organiser making money from a GB, as long as it's clear how the money is being made and that it's a reasonable / fair amount.

I got a bit of a shock when the calculated profit was twice the expected cost of the caps (based on previous runs of these same cap designs, the only info available to me) . A 200% markup is not what I'd call reasonable. With the new quote values and pricing I think it's much closer to being "reasonable". I'd be happier still with the $2 GB fee reinstated and the invoices sent out with the real costs. Or that the profit goes to something that helps the keycap enthusiast community.

I also know there are other businesses / vendors that run keycap GB's and are much less transparent than this, but those are for full keycap sets and it's a bigger risk for them. Also the prices are a lot closer to the real cost than what I was seeing here initially.

Also, would you consider extending this a bit? Two weeks is fine for a smaller buy like the DSA ones, but these bigger kits need some thought and planning from buyers and it may pay off to keep it running so more people notice it before it's finished.

Sorry for throwing such a big spanner in the works on this / interfering with your GB. My sense of justice was just setting off alarm bells and I had to react. I should have PM'ed you instead of dropping a bomb in the thread.

TLDR: $2 per cap is alright. If the profits are large, would you be willing to put some of it towards Row 4 Shifts?

The cost of row 4 shift keys is something SP would need to sort out. From what I've read, the cost of them getting a new mould for row 4 shift keys is around $90,000. The way they see it as far as I can tell is that it's not worth the investment.

Nope, it's around $4000 to $4500 per mold = $8000 to $9000. It's kind of ridiculous SP hasn't had them made themselves yet IMHO.

Agreed.  I would not support paying for the molds at this point.  They are trying to push a business expense off on their customers and that's not ethical.  The demand for R4 Shifts has been there for at least the last year and the last 6-7 group buys (maybe as far back as 7bit Round 4?) -- I don't see it slowing down anytime soon.  If they bit the bullet on the molds they would easily make their investment back after a few more group buys.  So I don't understand the hesitation.

[Oobly]

The order from still has them at $3 per cap. I'm happy to order these at the $2 level since I think it's a reasonable price for them and I think you should still meet your goals.

[harlw]

OP now updated to reflect lower pricing...

FYI the google form still has $3/per pricing in it. As soon as this is updated I'll be doing a bit more pushing for this set around the communities.


Thanks!

[00zeRO]

I understand better now the complications in setting prices as the price of one kit depends on the numbers of other kits ordered that have the same colourway in the same family. I also understand that you want to get all the kits made regardless of orders and applaud you for this, but I think some description of what happens to the extra money would be nice. I also understand that in business you have to take calculated risks and it's best to base these on a lower sales expectation. As I have stated in my previous posts, I have no problem with a designer / organiser making money from a GB, as long as it's clear how the money is being made and that it's a reasonable / fair amount.

I got a bit of a shock when the calculated profit was twice the expected cost of the caps (based on previous runs of these same cap designs, the only info available to me) . A 200% markup is not what I'd call reasonable. With the new quote values and pricing I think it's much closer to being "reasonable". I'd be happier still with the $2 GB fee reinstated and the invoices sent out with the real costs. Or that the profit goes to something that helps the keycap enthusiast community.

I also know there are other businesses / vendors that run keycap GB's and are much less transparent than this, but those are for full keycap sets and it's a bigger risk for them. Also the prices are a lot closer to the real cost than what I was seeing here initially.

Also, would you consider extending this a bit? Two weeks is fine for a smaller buy like the DSA ones, but these bigger kits need some thought and planning from buyers and it may pay off to keep it running so more people notice it before it's finished.

Sorry for throwing such a big spanner in the works on this / interfering with your GB. My sense of justice was just setting off alarm bells and I had to react. I should have PM'ed you instead of dropping a bomb in the thread.

TLDR: $2 per cap is alright. If the profits are large, would you be willing to put some of it towards Row 4 Shifts?

I will extend the Group Buy to the end of September. Not sure how large the profits will be once the numbers come in, but my plan is to donate to GH (as I hear it needs money), pay the other member/contributor of 00Keys, Mogo a stipend for his help with all my designs thus far. Should there be a sizable amount left, I may contribute to the Trump campaign, jk. Seriously, the money would likely go toward future group buy planning, packaging, and etc.

As I have stated from the start, I am doing all of this independently and apart from Mechanical Keyboards, Inc. When it comes to business and Group Buys, I am a newb.

As for assisting with Row 4 Shifts, this is not something that I feel would be my place to do since Signature Plastics is in the business of working with plastic and setting the molds. They should be the one to do all the allocation of such equipment.

The $2 per key cost still stands, but I will be flexible to the MOQ numbers as long as I don't have to pay out anything (as in there being no profit, but loss). And there will remain no GB fee per order.

This will likely be the last Group Buy of this size I will ever put my hand to do since I have clearly gotten in way over my head with regards to numbers, attitudes, and ineptitudes (purely on my part).

[00zeRO]

OP now updated to reflect lower pricing...

FYI the google form still has $3/per pricing in it. As soon as this is updated I'll be doing a bit more pushing for this set around the communities.


Thanks!

Thank you for pointing this out, I will get right on this...for sho

[dutC4]

Respect for the transparency and change in price!

[00zeRO]

The order from still has them at $3 per cap. I'm happy to order these at the $2 level since I think it's a reasonable price for them and I think you should still meet your goals.

OP now updated to reflect lower pricing...

FYI the google form still has $3/per pricing in it. As soon as this is updated I'll be doing a bit more pushing for this set around the communities.

Thanks!

Form has been updated! Also OP now shows new cut off date and MOQ restrictions have been lifted and are now simply goals!

We are betting the farm!

[Oobly]

I understand better now the complications in setting prices as the price of one kit depends on the numbers of other kits ordered that have the same colourway in the same family. I also understand that you want to get all the kits made regardless of orders and applaud you for this, but I think some description of what happens to the extra money would be nice. I also understand that in business you have to take calculated risks and it's best to base these on a lower sales expectation. As I have stated in my previous posts, I have no problem with a designer / organiser making money from a GB, as long as it's clear how the money is being made and that it's a reasonable / fair amount.

I got a bit of a shock when the calculated profit was twice the expected cost of the caps (based on previous runs of these same cap designs, the only info available to me) . A 200% markup is not what I'd call reasonable. With the new quote values and pricing I think it's much closer to being "reasonable". I'd be happier still with the $2 GB fee reinstated and the invoices sent out with the real costs. Or that the profit goes to something that helps the keycap enthusiast community.

I also know there are other businesses / vendors that run keycap GB's and are much less transparent than this, but those are for full keycap sets and it's a bigger risk for them. Also the prices are a lot closer to the real cost than what I was seeing here initially.

Also, would you consider extending this a bit? Two weeks is fine for a smaller buy like the DSA ones, but these bigger kits need some thought and planning from buyers and it may pay off to keep it running so more people notice it before it's finished.

Sorry for throwing such a big spanner in the works on this / interfering with your GB. My sense of justice was just setting off alarm bells and I had to react. I should have PM'ed you instead of dropping a bomb in the thread.

TLDR: $2 per cap is alright. If the profits are large, would you be willing to put some of it towards Row 4 Shifts?

I will extend the Group Buy to the end of September. Not sure how large the profits will be once the numbers come in, but my plan is to donate to GH (as I hear it needs money), pay the other member/contributor of 00Keys, Mogo a stipend for his help with all my designs thus far. Should there be a sizable amount left, I may contribute to the Trump campaign, jk. Seriously, the money would likely go toward future group buy planning, packaging, and etc.

As I have stated from the start, I am doing all of this independently and apart from Mechanical Keyboards, Inc. When it comes to business and Group Buys, I am a newb.

As for assisting with Row 4 Shifts, this is not something that I feel would be my place to do since Signature Plastics is in the business of working with plastic and setting the molds. They should be the one to do all the allocation of such equipment.

The $2 per key cost still stands, but I will be flexible to the MOQ numbers as long as I don't have to pay out anything (as in there being no profit, but loss). And there will remain no GB fee per order.

This will likely be the last Group Buy of this size I will ever put my hand to do since I have clearly gotten in way over my head with regards to numbers, attitudes, and ineptitudes (purely on my part).

Thank you, thank you, thank you! This is wonderful info, great to hear it (except for the not doing more GB's part). This transparency is precisely what I've been after. I am very happy to help with all of that as I feel it's all deserving of getting money. We definitely don't want you to make a loss on this. I'll be placing my order ASAP.

I apologise again for the way I pursued it, though, next time I will PM first.

[00zeRO]

Thank you, thank you, thank you! This is wonderful info, great to hear it (except for the not doing more GB's part). This transparency is precisely what I've been after. I am very happy to help with all of that as I feel it's all deserving of getting money. We definitely don't want you to make a loss on this. I'll be placing my order ASAP.

I apologise again for the way I pursued it, though, next time I will PM first.

I said a 'GB of this size.' I will do more Group Buys in the future, but I will employ the K.I.S.S. principle (Keep It Small, Silly).

This is the kind of feedback I would have liked during the planning process to avoid confusion out there, but it is all fine and dandy.

[00zeRO]

And could someone do me a solid and let the great overseer of the GB compiliation sticky know that this GB is going on...I posted, but maybe my post was too ambiguous or maybe its because I am an organizer 

[Data]

KISS Principle has never failed me.   

[00zeRO]

KISS Principle has never failed me.   

I guess I just want to please EveryonE

[Data]

KISS Principle has never failed me.   

I guess I just want to please EveryonE

[00zeRO]

KISS Principle has never failed me.   

I guess I just want to please EveryonE

Show Image

That guy is a man of a thousand faces...

[00zeRO]

OP updated with new banner generously provided by harlw!

Thanks a whole bunch...

[harlw]

OP updated with new banner generously provided by harlw!

Thanks a whole bunch...

*nods*

[Data]

OP updated with new banner generously provided by harlw!

Thanks a whole bunch...

*nods*

Killer job on the graphics.